Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll

we discussed it as it was occuring, but rest assured, it did not take me out of its tempo in the slightest
i would even dare to say it helped to understand it as we were watching it. not something id do normally.

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Resident MoFo Grinch

Before any one complains, I’ll reiterate that I normally don’t talk during movies.
In this case, however, the conversation, as I already mentioned, was centered around the scenes themselves. Since there was very little dialogue, we weren’t distracted from the scenes themselves, and indeed, my eyes were practically glued to the screen the entire time.

We both were picking apart the scenes and the littles instances throughout the film. The little things. Like dropping a fork. Or missing her top button. Or how she seemed so annoyed at having to peel potatoes again because she messed up the dinner once already and now dinner would be late. Or the way she glared at another customer who dared (!) to take her usual seat at her favorite cafet.

We caught it all.

At the moment I'm mostly just surprised that didn't interfere with the viewing. I'd just assume it'd at least take you out of the rhythm of the movie. My mind might compare it to trying to watch a movie for the first time with an informative commentary track on, but those dampen the sound of the underlying movie so you can easily heat the commentary, so that isn't quite right. But, hey, it sounds like it worked for you and you enjoyed it. Which, for a polarizing movie doesn't seem that bad for a first time viewing.

Dan Murrell but what is pretty shocking is that the creators of the list told the submitters to not pick the regular classics but the films that are personal to them. That they weren't happy with the same films showing up every year and in 1992 they singled out Jeanne Dielman...so they had been promoting the film for 30 years.

When you push out Aguirre, Raging Bull, and The Wild Bunch and replace those films with two sad lady hooker movies it is what it is.

That guy really likes Jaws! "Bo Truvale"

he he.

You're surprised they asked voters to vote for movies they actually felt are the greatest movies and not just what they thought other people felt were the greatest movies of all time?


And they "singled out" Dielman... along with other films directed by women that made the list that decade, as in including them in a blurb/write-up of the results.

They didn't pick the movies that have been established in the past as the movies you have to pick!!!!


But also a conspiracy to make people vote for Jeanne Dielmann!!!!


Lol.

It looks like they made an initiative to change the list and promoted certain filmmakers to create a "diverse" list.

https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sou...-all-time/1992

Now did they expand the voting pool to the point to get the results they wanted so that a dying publication could get more attention and stay alive in this new world we're living in. Was this a stunt perhaps to appease patrons of BFI and investors. To me the list has no credibility I've seen these films they aren't the greatest of all time.

So what? Lists are meant to change. And none is meant to be an absolute take on what film should be. ****ing relax.

And we should be encouraging people to think about art differently from one generation to the next. This list, whether we agree with it or not (and you are certainly in your right to disagree with it) has already furthered the conversation about what art is and what should be considered valuable in it. Of much greater import than simply celebrating some other old hat film claiming the reigns of victory.

You do understand that in the past other lists had their own biases, correct? Like, please tell me you understand this.

Hoping to get voters to consider other films outside of that already biased pool is not the frightening thing you think it is.

New World!

*shudders with terror*

Art has always reflected society. Society is always changing. And while there have always been people screaming about the good old days, it has never made it a ****ing conspiracy when opinions and tastes evolve.


Yeah. I've read your glibly dismissive and frankly stupid responses about Dielman. Your taste is not what you think it is. It's hilarious you think your take should be considered authoritative.

And neither is mine. And neither is anybody's. But instead of throwing a fit over a list not reflecting your specific values for the rest of eternity, how but you actually contribute to a proper discussion of why you don't think these films are as good as other films, instead of constantly flinging yourself on the ground and pounding your fists against your head. As funny as it is, it's getting tired.

When I tally up my year end top films list that I watched this year, there is a slightly better than zero percent chance Jeanne Dielman will be #1.

Sorry if this has been asked, but can expect to see this list in the lists section?

Great films don't change every ten years...fashion and fads do. The fact that the BFI wanted female and POC filmmakers so they manipulated the poll to get the result they wanted. By doing so they violated the integrity of the poll.

They should just make one list and be done with it then.

Everyone knows critical evaluations of films remains stagnant from generation to generation.

Are you intentionally making bad points?

You also know Jeanne Dielman has been on this list before, even before your Illuminati of feminist movie curators ruined your life?

Making nasty comments about other posters seems a lot easier to you than actually defending a film where a woman peels potatoes for 20 minutes. It's pretentious and emboldens people like you to act like it's great cinema when in reality it's just a modern art installation that if it were directed by a man wouldn't be on the list. The editors wanted females and POC on the lists so they lied and cheated to get the results they wanted.

Just an aside about the potato peeling.

That’s a rather reductive description. It’s more like 5 minutes, and actually serves a purpose to the framing of her mind. It is at this point we can identify the beginning of her downward spiral.
Look at how angry she is as she peels them. And there’s a reason for this scene that seems to have been ignored.

Interesting. To me, the inclusion of more and more diverse (nationality, gender, etc.) voters means the list has the most credibility it has ever had.

I brought that scene up in my review, actually. That's one of the subtle little hints in the movie.

Sorry to quote this, but I get the feeling it was kinda glossed over due to a potentially heated discussion.

I have written repeatedly, as have others, about where the value of the film comes from. But I guess being aware of what people actually say isn't what you are here to do. You're here to dismiss the entire film out of hand because you think agendas are at play. You'd rather play the game where the entire world is pretending to like a film you don't, because that is easier for you to accept than people appreciating films for different reasons than you. Your solipsism is both astounding and embarrassing.



If you don't want to get called out for this bullshit, learn to articulate your bold claims better.

It's easy to understand why some audience members are only going to think about peeling potatoes or meatloaf or making beds. I'm sympathetic to the boredom. I'm even sympathetic to some of the skepticism.


But it's enraging when you or myself or Takoma or lots of other people can explain why the film works for us and there isn't the slightest engagement beyond calling such people pretentious or phonies or having agendas that have nothing to do with film.


Is it too much to ask, if someone wants to make the claim that a movie absolutely cannot be considered good, that is in fact totally worthless, that they show some basic understanding of what is happening in the film. Be at least vaguely humble to the possibility that they may have missed something? Or that some people simply like different things then them?


I think superhero movies are shit. But I at least don't claim people are pretending to like them. I can at least understand why they do like them. And if I do either of the above, I will take my critical punches because I would deserve them.

On this subject, I'd like to add that if an agenda is to be incorporated into a list, then it must use pre-existing praise for a film to make the addition feel more realistic. In other words, if BFI is indeed being feminist about this, they'd have to use the previously limitied praise for Jeanne Dielman and justify cheating with the previously limited praise by emphasizing the theme that goes hand-in-hand with modern popular politics. It's also easy to throw sexism accusations to skeptics who understand how the process works.

Having said that, I am not denying that Jeanne Dielman has touched hearts. The film must be especially painful for any female critics who had gone through such a lifestyle before finally becoming a voice in the magazines, meaning the movie represents a cruel reminder for females who have already proven themselves. Thus, we have a proper reason to appreciate the art of the film.

Having said that, not only is the artfilm such an acquired taste, but the theme itself isn't exactly the most marketable one. When you include popularity into the mix, even among critics, there is at least cause for skepticism towards the amount of votes in lieu of hard evidence. But to get angry about it doesn't necessarily help the accusation to take form. In the end, it's circumstantial evidence and nothing more, which means there's the possibility that these people are being completely honest. However, they ARE technically journalists...

Now my personal stance is simple. I don't discount the possibility that the critics were told what types of films to vote for. Having said that, I accept the list as it is because I can't change anything. But I take the list as easily as I take most other magazine lists: with a grain of salt. Rolling Stone's bull pretty much cemented that, so we got what we got, and the most I can do is work my way through the list for the sake of forum conversation, because in the end, all that really matters to me is what my fellow MoFo's say.