Obama!!!

1. No, I don't agree with the troop increase. Our time in Afghanistan has long passed, IMO.

2. Hillary and Kerry are politicians and don't represent EVERYONE in their party, I was speaking of individuals, who don't agree with abortion and don't want to pay for it. Not all Republicans are pro-life, so I wouldn't say they hold the views of every Republican. No, cost hasn't been discussed, but none-the-less, people who disagree with the war have contributed tax money to it. Why is it okay that liberals foot the bill for policies they don't ideologically support, but conservatives won't hear of it. A bit of a double-standard, that's all I'm saying.

3. As far as "cronies," you're telling me, Bush didn't owe ANYONE favors, even Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, and Obama did as well. Not singling out Bush, but just saying practically every elected official owes some organization(s) some capital.

4. Acorn, I don't doubt has it's own agenda, which I believe is more economic than ideological, IMO. There are organizations that liberals would relate to Bush, the validity of those are largely suspect, or outright exaggerated. For Obama, I believe is no different.

__________________


...uh the post is up there...

You mean like Bush I?

__________________
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. - John Wooden
My IMDb page

Lord, I wish I were rich enough to buy history books for everyone in this forum!!! You think all this spitting in each other's eye over politics only happened in the last 20 years??? Folks, this has been going on since this continent was first settled, and what you see today is not even the worst of it. Even before there was a US there were the Salem witch trials. A huge number of the first Americans sided with the British during the revolution. In one of the biggest battles in the south, the only Brit on the battlefield was the commander of the native-born American tory forces. After a very bloody battle, the American rebels headed home with their captive fellow Americans. But they kept killing so many of the captives along the way that the rebel commander stopped the march, held a kangaroo trial for a handful of top tories and let his men hang them on the promise they wouldn't kill the rest. Before the War of 1812, half the country wanted to fight the British and the other half wanted to fight the French. From his campaign for the office and through 2 terms of Andrew Jackson's presidency, there was almost class warfare in this country. During the nullification conflict Jackson threatened personally to go down to South Carolina and hang that state's top politician. From 1836-1846, the South and North were bitterly divided over whether to admit Texas to the Union. In the late 1850s, hundreds of people were gunned and sabred and hanged and burned in Kansas during the "debate" over whether it would enter the Union as a slave state or free--even though most people knew Kansas couldn't grow the type of crops that needed a large supply of slave labor. In 1859 John Brown led a raid on Harper's Ferry, Va. to capture the US armory there with the amim of arming hundreds of slaves with guns, swords, and pikes for an attack on southern whites. When he ran for president in 1860, Lincoln's name wasn't even on the ballot in about 10 states. That same year came the "Texas Troubles," when several mysterious fires broke out in several Texas towns during one of the worst droughts the state had ever known (which is saying a lot for dry Texas). The fires were blamed on an abolitionist plot although it was known at the time that one fire resulted from a carpenter emptying his pipe into a barrel of wood shavings; another was seen to start when a box of the new self-striking "Lucifer" matches spontaneously burst in flame from the heat of the sun. Nevertheless, several blacks were whipped and hanged and serveral unknown whites were murdered by "regulators" in various towns.
A Methodist minister was whipped and hanged in Dallas. A traveling drummer was burned alive because of a New York newspaper among his wares. Then there was the Civil War of 1861-1865 in which more Americans died than in all the other wars this country ever fought combined--down to this day. Not all the deaths were on the battlefield. In Gainesville, Texas, in a county where most of the men had voted against session, local officials rounded up suspected Unionists, put them on trial, and hanged 36 of them in about a week's time. It;s estimated more than 76 people were hanged, shot or lynched in North Texas that year; bodies were found floating in streams, lying along roadways or hanging in forests. Some 60 young men whose families had emigrated to Texas from Germany years before tried to slip into Mexico to avoid the war, but were surrounded, disarmed, and most were shot down before they reached the border. During World War I, several German-American citizens were lynched. Before World War II thousands of German-Americans who admired Hitler and the Nazis formed the German Bund, including a rally with standing room only in Madison Square Garden. After the attack on Pearl Harbor, thousands of Japanese living on the West Coast, including native-born US citizens, were interned in what were actually concentration camps (no matter how they try to dress it up. This was done only to the Japanese in the US, not in Hawaii, the scene of the attack where there was a larger Japanese population; some German Bund leaders were arrested but there was no internment of German- or Italian-Americans). Then there was the shame of the House Committee on Un-American Activities in the 1950s, and the Vietnam War in the 1960s-1970s when "activists" opposed to the war bombed college labs and buildings connected to the war, police clubbed down protestors, and the national guard opened fire on a bunch of students on a college campus, killing and crippling several.

You folks think this tempest in a teapot is something?? Well, you ain't seen nothing yet!

Wait a sec. There's a reason I try to stay out of these things. I have my car radio on the local Conservative station. Since I believe that I understand the Liberal viewpoint, I try to listen to the "other side" as often as possible even though I'm sick and tired of both parties. The thing I'm just trying to make clear to most people here, and I honestly believe that you Gals and Guys are very smart and open-minded, is that this country will survive. I applaud everyone who feels strongly enough to wear their hearts on their sleeves because although I'm certain we will survive, I realize that the winds blow every which way.

This is also why I believe that everyone who is "already safe and secure in their own beliefs" should go out of their way to listen to the other side. Now, I'm not saying that you cannot go on autopilot, but just listen to what people say. You will surprisingly hear things you agree with just as often as you say to yourself, "Pot Kettle Black".

Even so, I'll admit that some may find the video offensive, but I chose it for the lyrics, so close your eyes and dance if you can. Sorry, it wasn't intentional.

"Shades of Gray" by the Will-O-Bees

I wasn't questioning or even asking your stand on the war, but as long as you're showing yours, I'll show mine--I don't give a damn either way. Had a cousin who did a couple of tours over there as an Army doctor, but he's back home at Ft. Lawton, Okla., now. With an all-volunteer Army, none of my grandkids will be drafted, so the war is a moot point with me. However, I'm sure glad the US public had more grit back in World War II when US casualties were in the 5-digit range in the month it took to take Iwo Jima.

I'm not sure how Hillary and Kerry got into the conversation. Maybe you assumed something more than I was saying, but I haven't even thought of these two people in years.

OK, now you're confusing me--have people complained about taxes paying for the war or not? Are we talking taxes or what? I thought you said in your other post that conservatives don't want their tax dollars to be spent on the war and abortion, and I said I haven't heard that. I suppose the people who oppose the war and abortion would continue to oppose both regardless who pays for it. In fact, the only thing I recall about the correlation between war and taxes was back in the Vietnam conflict when a few opponents of that war made a gesture of not paying their taxes because of their opposition to the war. I always pay my taxes, and I want Uncle Sammy to gig everyone else the same way whether they oppose Nam or Afghanistan or abortion or ACORN or day-care.

Damn, is someone adding comments to my emails after I post them??? I ain't trying to tell you a damn thing. All I wrote was that the word "cronies" sounds funny to me! Didn't try to defend Bush or attack any of the other presidents. Just remarking on the frequent repetition of "Bush's cronies" in this and other forums. Can't someone come up with a different phrase or is this some sort of password among Bush's critics? "Bush's cronies"--I can't help it. It still sounds funny to me!

Look, I don't have a h**d-on for ACORN or any other organization. Tell the truth, I didn't know the damn thing was still in existance until they got ripped on the very liberal Daily Show the other night. Even the very liberal host of that program tore 'em a new one, so why am I treated like the red-headed stepson from the Evil Empire when I simply mention it?? Hey, I don't care if you have your ACORN contribution deposited directly from your paycheck --no skin off of me. I just think it's a great news story, especially since it was broken by a couple of amateurs because all the other media were afraid to touch ACORN with a 10-ft pole for fear of being dubbed racists. But then I also laughed my ass off when the United Way got caught with its drawers down a few years back.

Don't give 'em fried baloney or spam--I hear they hate that stuff in the Big House.

Well, you see, I have listened to them. I used to listen quite often because there is nothing but conservatives on the radio. At the time, I didn't even realize what their agenda was, I was just interested in what was going on. I was appalled. I couldn't believe my ears. I can also say that was the moment I became politically involved. I guess I can thank Limbaugh for that.

I can see you're equating someone like Al Franken to Rush Limbaugh. Since you disagree with both, I guess it's easy to do. But I find them completely different. I think one is a man and the other, well, a disease. And what really bothers me is that so many people defend people like Rush and think it is okay to speak like that. That somehow he's helping???

How can that be? I sincerely ask that. If they make good points, those points are lost in insulting and angry rhetoric. Think about it -- why would anyone like me even hear what they are saying? We hear people when we are not attacked. When attacked, we can't really hear the other person. So, yea, what good are they doing? Why aren't we evolved enough to actually engage in discussion?

They only fuel hatred and division in an effort to sensationalize and make money. I know you know that. I'm sure, once in a while, they make a good point. But honestly, why would I even listen long enough anymore to get there? I'd only go through all sorts of anger first.

Get rid of all the pundits. BOTH sides. I'd have no problem with that. How about a society that is sincere in negotiations? Whenever I think about it, I feel like we're a bunch of cave-people or something.


Rufnek, thanks for the history lesson. I get it now. We've been a hateful country for a pretty long time, eh?

Karl, I must say that impressed me. Good for you! I think that's great that you do that.

As for me, it was simply a walk in the park with my son and my dog. Nothing quite as exciting as your night.

I did not see this post by Karl earlier. It might have looked like I ignored it. I didn't. I guess I'd like to respond a bit...

I do see hatred. I saw hatred when I watched an impeachment of a president that was nothing more than a witchhunt. You'll have to excuse me, Karl, but that is when I saw hatred the likes of which I had never seen before. Yea, there was Vietnam, Watergate, etc., but the pettiness of that impeachment made me appalled. So yea, I see hatred.

I see it in signs that say "Bury Obamacare with Kennedy." Explain to me how that is not hateful? How about a Hitler mustache on a BLACK man? How is that not hateful?

Jimmy Carter called it like he sees it. I agree with him. Obama has barely been in office; he's talked long and hard about trying to work with the other side and the response he gets is a closed door. Nope, he's a Socialist!!!

After all, you know how those black people are. Always looking for a government handout.

Funny how the first black President needed to prove he actually was born in the neighborhood. Quite different from trying to prove what a hypocrite Bush was when they were smearing Kerry's war record.

No, you don't seem to understand something. Many people, like me, didn't like Bush because he sent in a bunch of bullies into Florida to make sure the votes weren't counted. But we put up with him for a long time. The zealous hatred for Bush showed up in force around 2006. Trust me, I know. I kept wondering why it was taking so long. This man was an embarassment and a danger to this country yet everyone was just sitting around letting it happen. He was even re-elected.

No, it wasn't until after Katrina that people really started to speak up. So please... this hatred for Obama that is being shown this quickly is not the same. Six years of dangerous policies finally made people mad. I see nothing wrong with that.

Why should I? Isn't that what is going on out there according to Beck, et al? America is MAD!!! Don't you know? They want their country back! They want the government out of their lives! They want to reduce the deficit! They don't want anyone taking their guns! They don't want tax dollars going to those lazy poor people who can't get health insurance!

Emotions in check? Isn't that why those thousands and thousands of people marched on Washington to show just how MAD they are!?

It is so blatantly obvious that ACORN is and has been for a good long time - corrupt. People cam look the other way or say that it started with good intentions, etc..., but in fact it is really a bit different than just about any other tax funded operation, if not only because of the amount of money it takes in. These recent discoveries of the American organization, with the videos and whatnot, are imo just the tip of an iceberg that probably has it cold roots growing out of a Chinese rice field. I could link and quote and so forth many things: from a co-founder (the word founder might be a hint) embezzling a million dollars and never being brought on charges to a low level crony giving advice, and not outrage for some reason, to a potential client on how to smuggle underage kids into the country to be hookers.

"How about the fixation on ACORN? What is that?"

How about the "turn the other way" when this crap is going on ideal? What is that?

You asked what I thought of the troop increase, sorry it sounded like you were asking my opinion.

You asked if Hillary and Kerry should pay for voting for the war.

Also, I didn't say conservatives didn't want to pay taxes for the war, I said that conservatives were throwing a fit about the possibility of the health plan having an abortion option, because they are ideologically opposed to abortion. They say not everyone agrees with abortion. Now, I was saying that, to me it seems unfair that conservatives are willing to pick and choose what they want to pay for, but liberals pay for policies that they don't support, like the war. Not EVERYONE agrees with the war. That's all. Just my opinion.

I was explaining what I meant by "cronies," thought maybe I was too ambiguous.

I wasn't defending Acorn, or denying Obama's affiliation, I just think it's typical to politics.

My god, 7thson, do you really think the Republicans of the last 8 years weren't as corrupt as hell? How about some threads and posts on that?

I find this incredible.

I'll bow out of this now. Although I must make it clear that I am outraged by Tramp's apparent attitude.

May I sum this up?: Conservatives are hateful and evil people-- especially the ones who actually get off their asses and protest. But it's okay for liberals to hate conservatives because conservatives are evil and hateful people.

Does that about sum it up Tramp?



No spam tonight rufnek. I made slow-cooked chicken in an Indian mango sauce, along with stir-fried asparagus, celery, carrots and Hungarian wax peppers (from my neighbor's garden) in a pot of rice.

It cost about $40 to make but everyone loved it so it was well worth it. They seem like really nice people. I cooked there regularly a couple years ago, but my money and time started running short at one time. Things are good again. All new people there but they were very cool.

__________________

This is not about Dems or reps, this is about ACORN, or at least my post was.

I think those threads are all over the place and I never claimed that corruption is not out of control. I just want to know if anyone that thinks Obama is a good president can also say with conviction that ACORN is corrupt. I can admit that both parties are full of corruption, what does that have to do with ACORN? Why can one not voice an opinion on one thing and get a straight answer or a response to the topic on hand?

I'm sorry I so "outraged" you. I'm rather frustrated that you can't seem to now answer my responses to you. You said I'm full of "hate," and I explained why I have the feelings I do.

I tried to answer you honestly. I also don't believe I was disrespectful to you. If I was, I apologize.

7thson, why is it so important to you? That's what I don't get.

Obviously, after watching those tapes, it's clear that ACORN has people in it that are corrupt. I'm not sure I can condemn the entire organization, but it's clear they've screwed up their reputation. Yet, I don't get why you're connecting Obama to ACORN so much. It's not like ACORN is the first thing on his mind these days.

As of this point I do not think in anyway shape or form that Obama is directly connected to the current ACORN events. Did I say he was? Now I may have connected him in the past because, well he did work for them. I can honestly say right now that my grief with ACORN has nothing to do with Obama. Now you might ask then, why post it in this thread? I can answer that, and the majority of us know why, I want debate, I want to know if there was anyone that gave ACORN a pass in the past because they (ACORN) were helping to get Obama elected. I want to know if heads turned the other way when the light was shinned in their eyes, I want to know why the hell it is alright to sell kids for sex? I want to know why that is not mentioned anywhere, at all in main stream media, anywhere, unless it is to complain about how the info came to light. What is worse: recording these things w/o knowledge of those involved or the kids being abused? That is what I want to know? I know the answer, all good folk do, and yes I am certain it includes you Tramp and 99% of America, but it is disconcerting to imagine that one's anger is more focused on keeping face than it is in condemning evil.

7thson, I can tell you the tapes were played on the Daily Show! A liberal show where it was clear Stewart was pretty outraged.

Selling kids for sex is wrong. Period. Are you saying that because it was a democratic organization that the media is ignoring it? You also asked for someone who likes Obama to say ACORN is corrupt -- so you're connecting Obama there.

For me personally, I'm just flat out disappointed. I think ACORN could have done a lot of good. I think corruption is corruption no matter the party or party affiliation.

Are they really "evil" though? I think there's more to it than that and socio-economic status is a part of it. People do desperate things when they have no money or education.

Thank you for your response Tramp, that is really all I was asking for. Not just here online. I think sometimes what I say here, about issues like this, are pigeonholed into just my posts here. This is an issue that has bothered me for a long time online and off and I have had a few offline confrontations about it and it got me a bit raw. I know that is not your fault and I apologize if sometimes I get a bit hypersensitive about some things, but I think that happens to all of us with a "heart" as I know you tend to wear on your sleeve as well as I do. If I could only get you drunk and out on a date we might like each other, even if my IQ is a tad lower than yours - us rednecks rely on charm not wit ( too bad I have neither).

Awww, gosh, you have charm! I've been pretty angry today and testy in my posts and now all I want to do is go have a drink with you.

Here's something I agree with Obama about:

&feature=player_embedded