Did the word "Troll" lost its meaning over the time?

Besides all those pseudo-psychological wiki-entries and psychological online-studies from china, are there only "trolls" and "non-trolls" lurking on the internet?

They say Elon Musk likes to "troll" from time to time, here and there. So, is he a "troll" or not?

Are we even still aware of the exact definition of a "troll" and how such one can be identified? Are there users who tend to "troll" without even being aware of it?

Is a user only a "troll", when heīs "trolling" and when he ainīt "trolling", heīs not?

They also say, there are lots of REDDIT-Moderators who tend to "troll" when they feel for it.

WTF!? A "trolling" moderator? LOL

I am not sure, but i do remember chatrooms and forums, when the word "troll" didnīt even exist. This was also a time, when i remember the internet not being such a toxic-waste dump as it appears to be these days on certain spots.

So i somehow got the idea, people donīt even know what they are talking about, because actually everyone "trolls" sooner or later and if a person really wants to do some serious damage to a forum while inflicting pain onto other users (the actual classic and original definition of a "troll"), then i am sure he would exactly NOT behave like a "troll" is usually behaving. So i am sure, youīd never use the line "Donīt feed the troll!" if it is a real troll whoīs trying to seriously hurt you and your forum. But then again, how many "trolls" are really having those psychopathic tendencies?

I also read, some "trolls" just want to have "fun" and some are just "bored" but then again, ainīt every user "bored" who seeks a forum just to write a bunch of actual more or less irrelevant lines of text?

Also, too many users these days seem to scream "Donīt feed the troll!" and they scream it pretty fast. Some users actually use this line so fast and so often that i gotta ask: Are they trolls?

Oh my, the internet is actually full of "trolls"!

BTW from what i experienced to this point, this forum here seems to be one of the better places actually, pretty rare in my opinion.

Yeah, the term has been pretty mixed up and diluted.

In the early days, a troll was someone who deliberately said provocative things they didn't necessarily believe/care about/whatever just to stir things up, for their own amusement. That's still how I use the term, generally.

These days it increasingly seems to mean <anyone who says controversial things I don't like>. Which is an important distinction for me, as a mod, because starting discussions in bad faith isn't really acceptable, but saying things people don't like often is, at least from an intervention standpoint.

Over time I do find myself expanding it to people who seem incapable of talking about anything other than controversial topics, though, as well as people who seem constitutionally incapable of stating opinions in a soft or conciliatory manner, but instead seem to default to the most brash, confrontational framing every time. But only because I think their reasons for that, conscious or otherwise, come from the same place as the OG troll definition.

And there we go! That word which caused millions of threads to be closed and even more users to be kicked! PROVOCATIVE!

But "being provocative" is the same as "being normal". At the end itīs in the eye of the reader.

So then, the "majority" of a forum decides, what is "provocative" and what is not and there we have the next problem with certain online communities: THE MAJORITY!

The majority (i could also call it "HIVE-MIND") decides what is good and what is bad, right or wrong and last but not least, whoīs a troll. Also, because it is "the majority", it automatically thinks itīs right just because it is the majority.

EDIT: Well, "the majority" ainīt not only a "problem" with certain online communities, itīs also a daily problem in our real world outside the internet.

I'm not sure I agree. A person can think something shouldn't be provocative, but that doesn't preclude them from recognizing that others find it provocative. You or I may have no issue talking about politics or religion or whatever, but we can still recognize that those subjects are more sensitive than others.

Also, there are obviously many ways someone can be more or less provocative in ways that aren't even really subjective. "I personally didn't enjoy this movie" is objectively less provocative than "this movie is stupid and it blows my mind anyone could like it."

Almost everyone here (presumably) agrees that users shouldn't be allowed to just randomly post hardcore pornography. Is that us being a "hive mind"? Or is it just a sensible rule? That, of course, is the other reason groups of people think alike: because they possess rationality and one conclusion is more rational than the others.

Being in the majority does not automatically make someone right, to be sure. But it also doesn't automatically mean they're not thinking for themselves.

Don't talk religion, politics, or money with friends and family. Wise words to live by these days. Better to just yell at strangers online, I suppose.

__________________
"This is that human freedom, which all boast that they possess, and which consists solely in the fact, that men are conscious of their own desire, but are ignorant of the causes whereby that desire has been determined." -Baruch Spinoza

Being a troll. People who conduct such unacceptable behaviour that ultimately they are ugly creatures: trolls.

Yet, I always see "trolling" as a better term. You say provocative things. Then, people get caught like fishes and dragged into a vicious cycle.

__________________
Back to the 80s!

In reading both of your post...and 'reading between the lines' I get the sense you might have been called a troll on another board? Have you?...I also get the sense that you are concerned that some here at MoFo might consider you a troll? Be honest is that a concern of yours?


From everything I've read of yours I do NOT think you're a troll. So far you seem OK to me

Well ok...

I also say both things often go hand in hand and both are based on subjectivity as well as both are being forced by the majority (or certain "hives" in forums) in the most cases.

Example: "Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse" sequel has been banned in the United Arab Emirates!

Now we have a majority of certain people, who are banning something because it is "abnormal" and "provocative".

Now there are approx. thousands of places on this planet, where a majority decides what is "right" and what is "wrong" along with other rather subjective opinions.


Does that automatically mean, people should better shut up, before taking the risk of provoking someone accidentally?

Well and there we are!

If i have to be scared of provoking someone and as a matter of fact shutting my mouth, then it would probably be better to really donīt say anything at all, cause then i could talk about lovely cats while i provoke the cat-haters then!

Now what with people who intentionally "provoke" others? Do you really feel "provoked" if youīre aware, someone is saying "provoking" things just to "provoke" you? Also, is this more "provoking" than a user who is just having a "provoking" opinion about something?

Or a far better question! What with people, who actually chase provoking threads and provoking users, just to have their reason to rant and let off steam that way and/or to feel important again with all their rants? Those guys actually love to rant and let off steam and need provoking things so they can do it.

Not sure if this is a great example, i mean we all agree that randomly killing innocent people would be a bad idea, yet i am not feeling as a part of a hive-mind yet.

The term "Hive-Mind" as i see it, rather means the kind of users who act like a collective with sharing several same (mostly more or less irrelevant opinions), while they also usually "attack" so called "trolls" and often even "gang up" on them, even if it is just one single, lonely "troll" while it was the hive-mind actually, who decided that it really is a "troll".


The majority actually does think they are right, because they are the majority!

Example: United Arab Emirates and them banning the latest "Spider-Man" movie and i seriously doubt they would think it would have been wrong to ban it.

When it goes for "thinking for themselves" well, ever heard of:

"The stupidity of the masses" or "The stupidity of the crowd"?

But every majority is also limited. Limited in size and limited to certain areas, so a "majority" is in fact just relative.

Example: Germany, 1938


All "Trolls" are identified by their "unacceptable" behaviour? What is "unacceptable" for example and is everyone who does or says something "unacceptable" automatically a "Troll"?


Oh my! LOL! I got accused of being a "troll" along with being banned, in more forums than i can actually count!


Now that is where youīre awfully wrong. Why should i be concerned? Concerned about what? Posting in forums is just like an additional hobby to me and sometimes i post on a daily basis multiple times while other days i donīt participate for weeks or even longer.

If it would be the case iīd be banned in every forum everywhere online, iīd just spend more time with my other hobbies.




Well, LOL, thatīs because users and this board seems to be pretty fine. Sadly most boards these days are NOT and worst thing about it is the fact those toxic boards/users arenīt even aware of being toxic obviously.

Example: REDDIT - "The Frontpage Of The Internet!" i call it "The Ugly Mirror Reflection Of The Internet" coz i hardly met any place being more toxic than REDDIT and i as well never met any more abusive and power-hungry moderators than those dwelling on REDDIT.

BTW just like "Society is creating their criminals" so are Forums/Social-Networks creating their trolls.

The classic original Troll is described as someone who is mostly targeting forums to bring them down (to "destroy" them), now guess what, why would someone come up with such an idea to begin with?

Probably someone who feels victimized and seeks revenge? Also, as far as i remember, there were forums first and "trolls" later, not reverse.

@TheDoctor,

That actually was not "my" idea. I'm a quite, even over-tolerant person myself.

Thanks for the explanations...You have an interesting take on boards and trolls and I'm curious about your past experiences?

Have you been posting on discussion boards for a long time? Myself I've been posting on the internet for 25 years, starting on usenet boards. I've never been banned, but I've left a couple of boards because they were so toxic...and I had my own board once but left it because all the people did there was fight. I have to say MoFo is like an oasis compared to the boards I've seen. That's why this is the only board on post on, though on occasion I will read about a subject on Reddit.

A troll is a bot or an antagonist or a generally undesirable exploitationist, usually with an agenda to upset people otherwise getting on fine. Anyone that floods a board with useless topics and advertisements, anyone that sets upon themselves to derail good topics and smear campaign specific users.

Whenever i hear the word "tolerant", i have to think of the political left in my country, who claim to be so tolerant, when they actually mean, they tolerate every human being except people who are politically right.

The political left in my country generally tend to talk much crap, probably even more crap than the political right, so i am actually politically NEUTRAL because i am sick and tired of both hypocrites, left AND right.


Oh my, i donīt even know where to start with all my experiences, but the following incidents really left a lasting impression on me, while exactly those same incidents were happening on several more occasions , just on other board with other submissions or other topics:

.) I once submitted a fake videogame cover on REDDIT for the sub r/Wolfenstein, then about 24 hours later i checked it and was surprised to see hundreds of trump-fans and trump-haters fighting each others over it, with dozens of comments "silenced" and myself banned. LOL, i wasnīt even participating in the rumble and the submission was active for quite some time, so if the users wouldnīt have been fighting over it, nothing would have happened. So, moderators actually banned me, because of other users who were unable to carry on a discussion.

.) I started a "controversial" discussion on the STEAM boards, then some moderator wise-guy gave me a one-week ban for "starting a troll-thread", but actually left that "troll-thread" open for everyone to participate. Then i came back and made fun of that moderator, and he did it again. Now i got a two-weeks ban and the thread again stayed open! By the way, if there is any board being on par with the REDDIT subs, then itīs the STEAM boards.

.) In some German forum (where i have been active for a few weeks at this point) i participated in a political thread and said something like "Iīll be a criminal rather than being a slave for this shitty economy in my country" and some moderator banned me with saying "We donīt want criminals in this forum!". Interesting thing was, i was nowhere trolling to this point there in that forum, in fact many users found most of my comments positive, guess this one moderator was one of the few people, who felt "provoked" again by one or a few of my comments LOL.

.) In another German fourm, i submitted some of my fake movieposters (just like i did here) so what happened next? The next day, the thread was closed by a moderator, because several users started to fight over their opinions, if itīs "crap", if itīs "art", if i am a troll and if my pictures should be allowed or erased! So once again the exact same thing happened as it happened on r/Wolfenstein, with the only difference: It wasnīt a fake wolfenstein game cover.


I visited my first chatroom back the days when everyone was surfing the net with a 56k-modem and when it took 45 minutes to download a 3mb mp3. I remember in this one (english american) chatroom, there was this group of approx. 3-4 users who happened to haunt the chat from time to time, doing nothing but "attacking" and making fun of the users there. This was my first experience with "trolls" and the funny thing is, no one was using the word "troll" at this time because it did not yet existed, at least not so widely spread.


Thatīs when i turn into the "ultimate evil troll". Meaning, that this is my way to leave a forum, turning into a "troll" and getting banned. And i know what i am talking about, i had hundreds of users stalking me through multiple threads along with sending me all kinds of hilariously stupid death-threats and other crap in their PMs.

Exactly my thoughts!


A bot is just a bot. Since when are bots "trolling" forums?

I think youīre talking about those spam-bots, spamming forums with certain advertisements-crap.

Also, there is a difference between "trolling" and "spamming". Trolls never spam because spamming would get them an instant ban and if a troll is instantly banned, he canīt "upset" people then, can he?


Once again, that is "spamming".

@TheDoctor.

Whatever you think is... whatever you think. Yet, my point was obvious. The meaning of "tolerant" is clear. Now, I'm tolerating your pointless and baseless aggression and attempt(s) to educe stuff from a single "word" I used, for instance. I'm an anarchist, if you're curious.

Re: the majority and thinking they're right. Everyone thinks they're right, or else they wouldn't think that.

As I said, it is certainly true that people try to take comfort in being in the majority. And it's also true that people can come to the same conclusions for reasons unrelated to groupthink or hivemindedness. The porn example is a good one because it's so obvious to all of us, because that fact alone demonstrates the latter point. People thinking alike should not be treated as ipso facto proof that they're a hive mind, the same way people thinking differently should not be treated as ipso factor proof that they're wrong. Pretty simple.

And obviously there is some kind of balance between self-censoring and tiptoeing around others, and showing basic courtesy and conscientiousness. Most of what you're saying can be boiled down to "it can go too far!" Which is true. But I'm noting things can go too far the other way, as well. Neither posture is without its pitfalls, so neither should be treated as an absolute. At most, we can simply decide one pitfall is worse or easier to fall into than the other, and put our thumb on the scale accordingly.

I gather that you've been run out of a few other places, and therefore are perhaps more sensitive to some of these things than others. All I can say is to maybe err on the side of civility and conscientiousness and see how it all shakes out, if you're trying to avoid a repeat. And most importantly, to *genuinely* try to start fresh, rather than coming in with lots of preconceptions about hiveminds and controversy. In my experience people who come to a new community with a chip on their shoulder over the last one usually don't end up staying very long.

This is why I ascribe to the wise words that "I know nothing about anything". I can neither be right nor wrong. Thus, I am superior.

It’s a mad world. I think a troll is someone who thinks they can rationally reach some understanding with someone who has a fundamentally utterly opposed view in a repeat of a conversation that has happened 20,0000 times and not reached a conclusion. Als a big ugly ass Scandinavian monster that eats people for snacks. Also those who just want to sow anachy and antagonise people for no other reason they are bored and empty out of their mind. Pity the troll but pyocit positivity sometimes asks for it, think of it as a reflection of them. It’s all probably meaningless or we are all doomed or saved. There’s probably some trolls who can be a hero. Words written on a keyboard but they’d jump in a river to save a baby from drowning. Of course others our soulless, no sense no feeling, they live among us.

I fully lack the ability to discern a difference between spam and trolls.

Tolerance is for the weak!



This sounds like you are talking about people who desperately need forums to give their life a meaning. My point is, if there are people who donīt end up staying very long, i am not sure in how much of those cases those people really do regret something?

When i am banned in a forum, itīs mostly because itīs anyway pointless for me to stay there, but then again in my opinion all forums are kinda pointless to begin with.

Now why do i see forums as rather pointless? Well there is far less so called "Freedom Of Speech" than we have in the real world (honestly i think FOS is rather completely dead in almost all virtual places) and last but not least you never talk to the "real" person behind their nicks, because EVERYONE sooner or later behaves a way in a discussion, he woulndīt behave like in the real world.

So, the only meaning that forums and similar places have to me, is amusement and this can be in form of paritcipating in (pointless) threads, carry on (pointless) discussions as well as (pointlessly) trolling around.

Now someone could claim "Now when youīre registering at forums over and over again, then youīre obviously in desperate need of something!" and that even may be true, but places like forums are there like sand in the desert, some are better, some are worse, but fact is...itīs all just amusement and if there wouldnīt be any forums, iīll get my amusement elsewhere.

Reasons why people are registering at forums are of wide range, but i am sure none of those reasons would be to gather information, especially since Google and Wiki.


Itīs the internet and it is even worse than reality. The net can bring out the worst in us.


But canīt that be applied to all "non-troll" as well? And as i said, they used to claim ELON MUSK tend to "troll" at times, so is a "troll" only a "troll" when he is constantly "trolling" every second or is he a "troll" even just when he "trolls" here and there for a few comments?


"Spamming" is easily identified and also restricted to repeatedly posting certain messages while "trolling" is everything but that.

The only time a "troll" would be "spamming", would be him "losing it" and desperately trying to "hurt" the forum (probably mostly the moderators there) by "spamming" the forum with lots of pointless threads (i mean totally pointless, even giving thread-titles random numbers), as many as possible in a short time, before he gets his final ban, to make sure moderators there have erase all his "spam" threads and hopefully gettin "angry" about it.

So you could say, "spamming" is the last strike a (utterly angry and very desperate) troll would do before heīs gettin banned. But i guess we are talking about absolute low-class level-1 beginner trolls with pretty low intelligence too, LOL.

Your avatar seems to need your nickname.

Conversely, tolerance makes one keep his/her energy for some serious issues. I, personally, wouldn't bother to "fight" you. Your grandiose self-esteem is rather laughable.

I see TheDoctor as a comic...being flippantly funny. When one views him like that then he's quite entertaining.