The MoFo Top Neo-noir Countdown - Preliminary Thread

I once ran across a video where a kid reviewing Se7en kept calling it Se-seven-en...

Anyway, just picked up a bunch of titles in this thread to add to my watchlist.

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@Thief - I wonder if Heat is eligible, almost done my list, only doing 10 (If your fine with this) like I did with the War countdown. Not a big fan of the genre but would like to still participate in this countdown since it's neo noir.

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Kinda similar to what I've said before, it is eligible based on the guidelines that we've established, but probably not one that tends to be usually mentioned when talking about neo-noirs. If you ask me personally, I see little neo-noir in it, if at all. To me, it is a crime film, which is the genre that tends to spill more often into neo-noir. You can put it in, but I don't think it will get a lot of traction because of that.

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@Thief
OK, Please, I'd just want to see which of these would be officially certified by the host for the countdown.

All of them failed the "at least two out of three" web sites noiring-rule but all are mentioned as neo-noirs in some lists - either wikipedian ones or the linked ones in the beginning of this thread.

So, please, which are Yes and which are No?

listed alphabetically:

Caché (2005)
Cape Fear (1991)
Duel (1971)
Guilty as Sin (1993)
Hard Eight (1996)
In the Line of Fire (1993)
Jackie Brown (1997)
Match Point (2005)
Purple Noon (1960)
The Driver (1978)
The Matrix (1999)
The Red Circle (1970)
The Swimming Pool (1969)
The Untouchables (1987)
Thelma & Louise (1991)
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? (1969)
Wild at Heart (1990)
Woman in the Dunes (1964)
Year of the Dragon (1985)

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Ok, first of all, I have only seen half of those, so I can't speak much about the ones I haven't. Still, going strictly by our eligibility guidelines (identified as "noir" or "neo-noir" in more than one source site), the ones in bold are eligible. A couple of those have been referenced here and if I'm not mistaken, one of those was even nominated to our Neo-noir Hall of Fame.

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One thing I will repeat is that the eligibility guildelines are there for everyone to read and check their lists, much like mrblond did. Something I said before (and I'm not addressing this to him, but to everyone), it's easier for you to check *your* 25 than it is for me to check *everyone's* 25. I'll say that much now; I can't go through everyone's lists to see if your choices are eligible or not. If I were to do that for everyone, that would mean checking 3 websites for every 25 films per ballot. It's not humanly possible. So it's up to everybody to check your lists.

Beyond that, I will more than happily answer any question any of you have about. We know the topic might be a bit confusing, but still, something along the lines of what Holden said when we started, and which I kinda reiterated a while ago; at the end of the day, you can vote for any film, but would it be worth it to waste your vote on a film you know you'll be the sole voter? So bottom line, check out all the sources we've been sharing, read and watch, and try to find those 25 that will take us to a meaningful consensus.

Glad you posted as I forgot about that one. Loved it. It's a good thing I didn't submit my list already.

Yes, as we have discussed, feel free to make calls on borderline films, or even films that clearly seem like neo-noir but but not have the obvious tags right at the top of sites like wiki or letterboxed. Se7en comes to mind immediately, which is labeled as "crime thriller" on those sites, but gets referenced as neo-noir if you dig a bit deeper. If you understand what neo-noir entails as a genre and you watch the film and think "Man, this just drips neo-noir style but doesn't exactly contain some of the normal elements," you may come to the conclusion that it is worth a ballot slot. Personally, I think it qualifies, but I can see someone else arguing that it doesn't. I think it was garner enough votes to rank on the list.

I really have no idea where to begin with this list. Oy.

My wife and I watched Tightrope last night, and after she went to bed, I started The Grifters.

So Thelma & Louise (1991) is neo-noir, what about Gone Girl (2014)?

From the 1st post by Thief:

• Only films released in or after 1960 are eligible. If they are from 1940 to 1959, put them on Citizen's Film Noir ballot.
• Films will be eligible as long as they are tagged or notably identified as "noir", "film noir", or "neo-noir" at TWO of the following at least: IMDb, Wikipedia, or Letterboxd/The Movie Database.
• At IMDb if they are tagged "noir", "film noir", or "neo-noir" anywhere on the page.
• At Wiki it needs to say "noir", "film noir", or "neo-noir" in the movie's first section in the first or second sentence. Alternatively, it could be on a "neo-noir" category at the bottom of the page.
• At Letterboxd or The Movie Database, it should have "noir", "film noir", or "neo-noir" among its themes.

Here are links to all four movie sites, just click on them and search for the movie in question and see if they qualify.
Imdb
Wiki
Letterboxd
The Movie Database

I did that for Gone Girl and it was not tagged noir.

Yes, that's why we ask the host to say his last word.
It turns out that half of the neo-noir films are not tagged as noir.
None of the long list above is tagged noir in at least two websites but Thief said that half of them are OK.
So, the eligibility rules not fully working for this countdown.

No, the ones you asked me for were actually tagged as noir or neo-noir in the source sites. I think there might be a bit of a confusion in terms of where to look for. This has been brought up before, but the thing is that "noir" or "neo-noir" are not genres per se (like comedy or horror), which kinda limits our options in terms of how to filter films in all these sites.

So to expand a bit on the opening post, for IMDb, you need to look for the "Plot Keywords". There are various ways you can get there (see this example) but once you get there, know that the list might be collapsed. You need to browse right to the bottom and make sure you're checking ALL the keywords.

For Wikipedia, it can be within the film description in the main paragraph, or you can look at the categories in the bottom of the article where it's probably categorized as "American neo-noir" or something like that (see this example).

As for Letterboxd, you need to find the film page and check under "Genres", where it should be labeled as "Noir and Dark Crime Dramas", or something like that (see this example). There's also a little link that says "Show all..." below that which will bring you to a more expanded list that you might want to check as well.

And finally, as it came up earlier in the thread, even though Letterboxd feeds itself from TMDB, there seems to be some differences so you might want to check the "keywords" there as well (see this example).

All of that is briefed in the opening post, including this picture...



But I hope this clarifies it further. So, again, the ones you mentioned above which I replied to, are all tagged "noir" or "neo-noir" in at least two of those places, so it probably was a matter of just knowing where to look. Let me know if that helps.

Funny thing is that is indeed tagged as "noir" or "neo-noir" in the IMDb Plot keywords (see here) and in the Letterboxd themes (see here). No mention of "noir" or "neo-noir" on Wikipedia or TMDB, but as far as the eligibility rules go, it complies

Me bad I didn't check Letterboxd themes, I didn't know about that as I don't do Letterboxd...I just looked at genres at Letterboxd and didn't see it.

Either way, as it has been said repeatedly, the eligibility rules are there to serve as a guideline and set some tangible boundaries. The most important thing is to look for films that have that unique "neo-noir" flavor. We've said it a couple of times already, but why go out of your way to find some borderline case that might or might not be considered "neo-noir"? If no one else will consider it but you, it's going to get only one vote. You could, but should you? As a host, I invite everyone to check the eligibility rules and as long as it complies, it's good... but personally, I think that the best way to go is to stay as much to the center of those boundaries as you could.

Yeah, but that's the issue which I mentioned above. "Noir" is not a genre per se (the eternal discussion) so you won't find it there.

Been balancing trying to watch Oscar noms and noir films, managing to get one of each in over the past couple of days. I've compiled a list of each to check off, and it looks like Red Rock West is next up for me on the noir list. This will be my first viewing!

Time to wake up, people, cause the deadline is almost a month away! February 25, 2024 is the last day to submit your ballots, so line up those watches if you can, and fire up that ballot as soon as you can. Go to the first post for all the instructions and let me know if there's any question.

Got another neo under my belt last night that I hadn't seen: Devil in a Blue Dress