PT. Anderson

lol

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#31 on SC's Top 100 Mofos list!!

I never thought I'd be the kind of person who would love a film like Magnolia...but I do. It feels, simultaneously, both unpredictable and obvious. Both easy and incredibly difficult. It's a pretty haunting film.

Magnolia isn't absolutely perfect, and yes it is inspired by Shortcuts, but I don't see that as a legitimate reason to dismiss it. Anderson is a huge Altman fan himself, and I don't think it's fair that he be so harshly faulted for it.

Let's get a couple things out of the way. I own both films and I do like them both to a certain extent, but my opinion of Magnolia went way down after subsequent viewings, and numerous comparisons to both Altman and Scorsese's work - another director PT tends to "lift" from constantly. That said, PT Anderson is probably the best writer/director working today, as I am having trouble coming up with a name of someone that is as strong in both categories. *Shrugs*

Your point about melodrama is spot on, though. In this case I preferred the more natural film.

Yeah, so I don't dismiss the film, that's for sure - the guy did a fantastic job with it, just not a particularly original job.

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No offense. I wasn't directing that post to you specifically, just was putting forth the point of view that it shouldn't be dismissed on that basis.

In fact, I wouldn't call Altman a pure naturalist, really. His films could be considered fairly quirky. But I figured that it was implicit in the context of the post that the term fit by comparison.

It comes down to a matter of taste, as you say. They are both superior movies IMO, in a general sense.

However, I disagree with you in one area: I think that other than sharing the basic premise, Magnolia is a very original film.

Anyways, I was just now reading your top ten, Sedai, and I must say you have good taste in movies.

Why thanks! Your list is...damn funny!

Oh and, no offense taken at any time - I have pretty thick skin...

It will take me some time to post a proper top ten because I have so many favorites. Glad you enjoyed the joke.

^ I have had it with those MoFo movies in your MoFo list!

Yeah, I don't see any similarities between Magnolia and Shortcuts other than both have a lot of characters and moments of synchronicity. Both film's forms are different, work with different themes, and none of the characters/situations are analogous at all.

The final, big moment of synchronicity in both films gave me major chills. My favorite part in Magnolia probably when the camera zooms in on the picture on the wall behind the quiz show kid that says "but it did happen", and of course the murderous rampage that sets off the earthquake in Short Cuts. The latter is still very mysterious to me, and I love just thinking about it. Really took my breath away when I first saw it and still does.

Both films build symphonically, so that if you watch them all the way through, there is always an intense emotional payoff.

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"Loves them? They need them, like they need the air."

Yeah, that slow build in Magnolia is what captivates me. You know how, usually in even mediocre films, there's a scene that feels important and causes you to lean forward and pay a little bit of extra attention? Every freaking scene in Magnolia feels like that. I don't know how a movie can build for three hours (and then somehow find an insane enough payoff to make it all feel worthwhile), but it does. It just does.

It'd be safe to say Magnolia had a bit of an effect on me. And this is after knowing the ending going in and having seen bits and pieces of it over the years before sitting down and watching it straight through a few months ago.

Than I guess I would be the only one in the world making the comparison? Funny, I have seen the films compared many times, some right here on this very board. Yeah, we're all crazy!

Nothing analogous at all, eh? That's horse ****, and you know it.

I'd buy that comment if you were comparing Magnolia to Tron Legacy, but Magnolia and Short Cuts are clearly similar.

For me, Magnolia is much more visually rich and interesting, which is important to me in a film of substantial length. Second, the movie uses music in amazing ways. Last, and definitely not least, I love the characters in Magnolia.

I admit to finding PN's comment curious, not because I don't see what he means, but because he has often made comparisons between very disparate things because they share a similar structure.

I'd have to check, but I'll bet Anderson has probably gone on record as being influenced by Short Cuts.

As I mentioned, I think the music is key to the build of the film. It's interesting to watch while paying extra attention to the rhythm of the music throughout, how it links scenes, how it changes and dies down at crucial moments.

P. T. Anderson has gone on record to say more than that. He's clearly mentioned that Altman is one of his biggest influences, dedicated There Will Be Blood to Altman even though it was more of an homage to Kubrick; not to mention the fact that Altman himself saw Anderson as heir enough to make him standby director for his final film.

I'm just opposing this stupid idea that Magnolia somehow lacks originality and is therefore hampered because it is a deliberate homage to Altman.

If the fact that Julian Moore is in both is an analog, then maybe. But between the characters? Repressed sexuality is probably the main theme in Short Cuts. Sexuality is limited to Cruise's character in Magnolia and even then it is a peripheral issue. The cop in Magnolia is the polar opposite to the cop in Short Cuts. Singing in unison sequence is entirely original to Anderson. Anderson's camerawork is mostly unlike Altman's. Anderson works mostly in the dark, where Altman worked in the day.

Both are mosaics in structure and share a theme of chance/fate connecting various strangers but they play out quite differently. The details are important. Anderson, as I wrote before, is a longtime fan of Robert Altman, who from what I understand was pretty much his mentor.

They're both great movies, some of us just happen to like maqnolia better.

Fair enough. I used to be over-the-moon for Magnolia when I first saw it, that's for sure. I've seen it maybe 5 times, and that last watch I did I found myself picking it apart quite a bit, and it really came across as contrived in places. Still powerful in some sections, though, and that doesn't seem to diminish with subsequent viewings.

Thinking about it, I do like the screenplay a whole hell of a lot, but I guess some of the execution and structuring bug me a bit now, and as I said, some of it seems really contrived.

The cop jumped to mind for me, but then I discarded it because yes, it's basically a study in opposites. However, compare Anderson's camerawork to that of Scorsese...

The singing in unison... I guess I didn't like that idea (love the tune, though), but I know many just adore it. To each their own and all that.

Magnolia is clearly an achievement, one that gets plenty of respect around the globe, but for me, my adoration of the film just sort of fell off after the novelty wore off, while Short Cuts, a film I didn't immediately warm to, grew on me with time as the subtleties emerged.

Anyway, even though PN and I tend to crack horns a lot, I have a tremendous respect for his analytical skills, and I guess now I want to sit down and watch these films back-to-back, something I have yet to do. You folks have given me some fresh perspective on both pieces, so I think visiting them again is the next step. Deadite is clearly no slouch, either.

We had a swell debate here. You guys are all true movie lovers in my book.

Anyway, like I said, it's not perfect, though I love it. My own personal peeve with the film is that the subplot involving the dead body and the black boy that Reilly's cop character deals with seems undeveloped and sticks out like a sore thumb on repeat viewings. It doesn't detract enough to take away from my overall enjoyment, but it's there.

That rap scene with the kid and the cop is gold, though. Funny ****.

Dead body? In Short Cuts?

I just realized something. I watched How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days last night, so I must immediately withdraw from this debate, log out, and go punch myself in the face.

See you tomorrow!