Battlestar Galactica: Season 4

I really hate all the delays in the sew season.
The only thing something like this will do is make the ratings even worse than they had already come to in the long run.

I still love the show and I'd like to see more of it but I don't think there's any way of coming out of this delay slump at all.

I'm gonna miss BSG after the final season airs (whenever the frack that will be) .

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Here's the much talked-about "Last Supper" picture, with little interactive comments from Moore:

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20169703,00.html

I've got some thoughts about this, to be sure, but can't elaborate at the moment and I wanted to throw it out there first.

Pretty cool pic, Yods. So, my brain's fuzzy on this one: Who exactly IS missing from the picture? Cally, yes, but she's not the kind of main character to have been in that picture to begin with. And also the female who was revealed as one of the cylons at the end of last season (whose name totally escapes me now). But we already know she is...

Who's missing??

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Good question. And a pretty shocking revelation.

Notable characters who aren't in the photo and therefore could be the final Cylon:

• Dualla
• Tom Zarek
• Gaeta
• Dr. Cottle
• Romo Lampkin
• ...or...and this one is interesting...Zak Adama

There are some others like Ellen Tigh that are, of course, possible, but for my money it's one of the above, assuming it's not a character we haven't met or anything.

I like the idea of at least one Adama being a Cylon, but who knows.

Let's not forget, however, that a lot of us thought Zarek and Lampkin were Cylons when they first showed up. Enough time has passed, and enough has taken place, that both have fallen out of many popular theories, but either one could still be the final Cylon.

Out of that list (and thank you for that -- my memory lapse merely reminds me of how long it's been since season 3 ended), I really like Gaeta as a cylon. Especially since they came so close to sending him out the airlock earlier and yet he proved invaluable to the resistance. (And why do "valuable" and "invaluable" mean almost the same thing?)

Dualla would be interesting but to me, unlikely. There are enough of the married-couples-with-one-a-cylon out there already now. We really don't need another one of those. Someone in the main control room, though, would be fun. (Another reason to like Gaeta as a cylon.)

P.S. Dare we even trust Moore's comment that the last cylon isn't there? Or is that clickable comment meant to be a little sarcastic?

Yeah, there's a tiny bit of wiggle room in what he said. But he's got a history of tossing us lots of clues and answers -- some of them far more revealing than I'd ever expect. So I don't have too much trouble believing that he's just dropped another potential bombshell on us. He's a lot of fun that way.

Gaeta's a good choice, for the reasons you mention. And while Dualla might not be as interesting (again, for the reasons you mention), the fact that it'd be well-tread territory could be a point in its favor. It fits a pattern, in other words, of Cylons and non-Cylons mixing it up, and with the most adament anti-Cylons, at times, finding their way into relationships with them.

So, who knows. The idea of Zak as a Cylon tickles me, and let's face it, it's got that out-of-left-field thing going for it that Moore seems to love. Probably a long-shot, but I like thinking about it.

Wait, you mean Lee's (dead) brother? Yeah, that would be outta left field.

As for the yet-another-hybrid-couple thing: Fair enough. There is something to be said for this being the final season, and the whole series perhaps veering in the direction of finding Earth and then the two "races" settling together somehow and interbreeding (at least, the nonviolent Cylons, of which apparently "Natalie" is now representative), thus ending it all with a sense of peace and harmony. This would be kinda the same way monarchs used to marry into royal families from other countries in order to secure peace between the two countries.

A Dualla cylon would be yet another piece in that puzzle.

Boy, I'd forgotten just how much I missed this show. It's a good thing I still have "Lost" to keep me company till it comes back.

Yeah, this is getting me pretty psyched, too. I have read some rumors about the ultimate direction of the show. I don't know if they're true or not, and I obviously won't go into any specifics, but I will say that there are some I'm less-than-thrilled about, if they are true.

Then again, there are probably a number of plot points that I currently love based on execution that wouldn't have thrilled me on paper beforehand. And you never know what is or isn't true. So we'll see.

I've actually lost quite a bit of interest in the whole "who's a Cylon" angle. Lately, I've been re-watching past episodes, and it seems like there were so many more genuine and character-driven plot scenarios early on versus these later seasons. I've said before that New Caprica (and the exodus from) was the last well-executed angle, and everything since then has been confused sensationalism. I wasn't impressed with the trial of Baltar because it seemed like the need for one surpassed a believable setup, so the writers had to invent new facets to the characters to accommodate. Examples include the return of Roslin's cancer and the sudden "lawyer" side of Lee Adama - both of which strike me as invention of necessity, which is pretty shallow writing. And I don't mean to fault the writers for this, but I really think the show's duration actually exceeded what everyone thought; meaning the writers have had to continue a story which wasn't planned to continue. But that's my guess.

Either way, I rather think the four "confirmed" Cylons (so-called) were erroneously chosen, as each seems to be either an attempt to recharge a defunct character (Anders, Tigh) or to illicit some kind of shocking response (Tory, Tyrol): both of which I find to be cop-outs against anyone who has followed the show from day one. I mean, re-watching all the amount of genuine heart and character they put into Tyrol, knowing he's a Cylon now ruins my sense that this show is in the hands of credible storytellers. Now we're casting off all the narrative progress we've made? Please.

I'm not going to attempt to guess what the writers are planning because I'm not so sure the end will logically follow the means, judging from the end of Season 3. But I will hope against hope for two things: (a) that the final five Cylons are unknowns, and not previously established characters; and (b) that the "Ship of the Lights" from the original series will be re-imagined and re-integrated into this series (a la Admiral Cain and the Pegasus of Season 2), and that the bizarre events of Season 3's relative finale will have something to do with it.

I largely agree with this. The "who's a Cylon" thing went out the window for me once we learned that the Final Five were "different." We'd been given all these rules and principles by which we could exclude certain characters from suspicion, and that was effectively tossed out the window with the finale's revelations. It has a bait-and-switch feel to it.

Can't agree with this. The Lee lawyer turn was well in keeping with his character's personality and history. His grandfather's law career was mentioned frequently, and Lee was certainly in the habit of going against the grain. He'd exhibited lots of rebellious tendencies, and was one of a handful of characters who consistently exhibited a grasp of nuance; many others took a black-or-white approach to Cylons and other issues facing the fleet. Anyway, I loved his speech. It was eloquent, passionate, and extremely perceptive.

As for Roslin's cancer; I concur, with the caveat that there might be a logical reason for its return. The fact that the human-cylon hybrid blood offered her only a temporary reprieve could be significant, which would make this more than just a cheap shock. So, I'll wait and see on that one.

I don't think the duration has caught the writers off-guard, but I don't know for sure. They're wrapping the show up after one more season, and they haven't needed many filler episodes. With the exception of the new "rules" for the Final Five, I think everything has felt pretty smooth. Regardless, I'm glad they're setting an end date. More shows should emulate BSG and Lost in this regard.

I don't like some of the choices, either, but I'm surprised that so many people are talking about Tyrol's development being "thrown away." I think it's changed and taken on a new meaning, but nothing's been lost. The fact that he agonized over it so much adds a new facet to his character: a degree of foresight and deep-seeded self-knowledge that has been trying to push its way to the surface.

Anyway, his arc isn't done yet. Lots of things could happen that would make for a satisfying culmination. What it he commits suicide, as he did in his dreams? What if he becomes self-loathing, and tries to kill his own hybrid child? These may not be the sorts of things any of us anticipated, but they all strike me as plenty interesting in terms of personal narrative.

It's already been confirmed that the four people who found themselves drawn to that hold in the ship at the end of last season are, in fact, Cylons. So there's only one left.

I'm hoping against hope that they have a clever, interesting reason for the Final Five being so different from the "Significant Seven." I've read some rumors that may account for the difference. I'll just say that if the rumors I've read are right, and account for the totality of the explanation, then label me disappointed. But, again, I'll withhold judgment until I see where they go with it. Anything which doesn't somehow counteract or make up for the aforementioned bait-and-switch will bum me out pretty badly, though. I want a show that gives me the rules, and still surprises me without changing them.

Exactly.


Oh, I didn't mean to suggest that Lee's turn as lawyer was out of character. It wasn't. My issue with it stems from the fact that the writers seemed to inadvertantly write Baltar into a morally unquestionable situation, where the blame could fall to no one or nothing else but Baltar himself, lest reason be thrown out the door completely. But the trial would have been quite swift and boring, to say the least, if opposition to the status quo hadn't appeared from somewhere. Zareck's support of Baltar was a given, but Zarek himself was used too sparingly to carry any weight alone. So the writers put Lee in Baltar's defense, because we all know the struggle between father and son on high has always been a surefire factory for drama and tension. But this one just felt wrong, and you'll have to correct me: I don't recall Lee's grandfather's law history being mentioned prior to the "trial" episodes of Season 3 ("trial" meaning any episodes concerning or leading up to the trial, as well as the depiction of the trial itself). It's just the sudden characterization of Lee as a lawyer that seems too convenient to me; but then again, Lee wasn't privvy to the horrors of Cylon occupation, or was too pre-occupied with his scorned love for Kara to notice. I don't know.

I'm also at odds with the "Last Supper" picture suggesting that Lee will no longer return to flight status. More than anything on this show, Lee has always been a pilot. It's in his blood. For me to believe that he will willingly reject his role as pilot from now till the end is going to take some crafty and sensible writing.

Agreed. I'm confident that it can be qualified logically, or that it might simply be a lie on Roslin's part for some reason (juicy!). But at the time that it was revealed, I felt like it was just a flat-falling cheap shocker, and WAY too convenient.

Not many, but more than enough. In Season 1 and 2.0, there were little or no filler episodes: instead, the filler plots were integrated into episodes of significance. But late Season 2 and post-"Exodus" Season 3 were almost entirely made up of filler episodes, to one degree or another. Not a big gripe on my part, though. They were still good episodes.

Definitely agree.

I smelled trouble when they introduced Brother Cavil after Tyrol beat the snot out of Callie in late Season 2. He was asking all these "Cylon" questions - and being a Cylon himself, obviously - I was afraid the writers might take a turn. But nobody can really argue that Tyrol hasn't been a major focus (and rightfully so, as Aaron Douglas is a formidable actor). His grief over Sharon's betrayal and death, as well as psychological turmoil of having a relationship with a turncoat Cylon, only to be re-introduced to a copy of her later (for the long haul), building the Blackbird Viper, acting as the voice of the working man on New Caprica (one angle I really wanted to see expanded), and also playing a crucial part in the religious discoveries in Season 3 prior to all the "final five cylon" nonsense... and after all that, to just make him a Cylon with no explanation seems not only a kick in the teeth of those who have invested time, thought, and emotion into the show, but also to forego prior characterization and exploit that connection to illicit a cheap "no, not Tyrol!" effect on fans. I can see through it.

Perhaps, but the turn still bothers me because it just didn't make any narrative sense. It's like the writers needed to return to the paranoia of Season 1 (who's a Cylon?) to keep the show interesting, even though that angle had understandably run its course.

Amen.

Is season 3 out yet? I just picked up 2.5 and now I need to re-watch pretty much the whole series. Man, this show has been gone way to long. I wish it would go at least a few more seasons. I suppose I should count my lucky stars though its already gone on two more seasons than the original did.

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It's scheduled for release on March 18. Amazon has it available for preorder right now. (I'm heading off to preorder it!)

Thanks, I thought I read somewhere it was coming out soon.

I advise everyone to rewatch the teaser:Anders says :If you're a Cylon then you've been one all along.


It's so not Starbuck

Oh and Baltar is Jesus..................................

and Tigh is hot with a patch..........

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Yeah, you actually get a little bit of a discount if you pre-order, though it's probably not too far off its release price. I just want to make sure I get one.

thebest, why can it not be Starbuck (besides the obvious, that I will tear my hair out)? They have to get her back in the lineup somehow. She's in all the cast pictures.

I do like Tigh's new patch.

Huzzuh? I highlighted the section that made my jaw drop. I completely disagree. Pretty much all of my friends, and myself, agree that the final half of Season 2 is the shows strongest, and clearly most forward moving part of the show, save 2 episodes in Black Market and Scar. 2.0 ends with the discovery of Pegasus. The material that follows is anything but filler, with the Pegasus events, the water tight Ressurection Ship stuff, which is really some of the best sci-fi television ever IMO, and the development of the Cylon resistence led by Caprica Six et al.

I will admit Black Market is probably the worst episode of the series, and it's clearly filler, and Scar is somewhat weak in its design, but still has quite a bit of important character development. I really liked Sacrifice and The Captains Hand, and Downloaded begins the story arc that culminates with the discovery of New Caprica and Baltar's fall. I think it's all incredibly well written, for the most part.

Also, I really dug the Cylon virus story arc in Season three. I mean come on, the stuff with the base stars?

"FTL system check diagnostic functions...the agony exquisite the colors run the path of ashes... fifty-two percent of heat exchanger cross-collateralized with hyper-dimensional matrix upper senses repair ordered... relay to zero, zero, zero, zero...jump...jump..."

Oh, that reminds me...speaking of Hybrid dialogue...This is a transcript of what the first hybrid said to Kendra Shaw:

"Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves, the pain of that revelation, bringing true clarity. And amidst confusion, he will find her... Enemies brought together by the apostle, enemies now joined as one. The way forward, once impenetrable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, though still in the shadow yet clawing for the light, hungry for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all, the seven, now six self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching, the agony of the one splintering into many. And then they will join in the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning."

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You know what? The only person I think I'll be happy with as the final Cylon is Baltar. It's the most obvious choice for so many reasons, yet because it's so obvious it somehow avoids as much consideration as, say, Adama or Roslin.

But all in all, I do think the final Cylon is one of those three. These guys don't seem the type to miss an opportunity like that. Somebody as low-level as Zarek, Gaeta, Dualla, or anyone else would be about as anti-climactic as it could get. I also think Helo and Cally are unlikely, because that would negate one of the two supposed "human-Cylon" babies, and bringing the number back to one seems equally anti-climactic and pointless. I could see them going with Lee Adama to get that final father/son conflict in there, but a Lee reveal would still be considerably less shocking than if it was the old man. And Starbuck, well... they oughta peg her as the final Cylon if anything to explain why we see her ship explode and then somehow she appears again; but I feel like if the writers have gone to such great lengths to ensure us that Anders, Tyrol, Tigh, and Tory are Cylons, they would have done the same for Kara. Which immediately becomes suspect.

Unless these writers are all lying buttheads.

Side note here: Since we don't have an actual date in March when the show is coming back, does the March 18 release date for the S3 DVD shed any light on this? Is there a precedent of some sort about starting a new season AFTER the release of the previous season's DVD? Or am I overthinking this?