Drugs Debate

What makes you think that they offer insight? Someone on crack doing amazing things may be doing them in spite of that. Do they offer insight? Depends on what you mean. If I got hit over the head with a hammer, and lived through it, I'd probably live life more fully, thankful for having survived the incident. Does that mean that one of the benefits of having your head smashed is enlightenment? Does it make it a good thing?

I'm just trying to say that I don't think drugs would teach me anything new, other than a little bit about the f*cked up perspective some people view the world from regularly.

Well, I said I think drugs can offer insight into things and make someone see things in a new light. I don't mean coming through some kind of a bad experience with them will make someone grateful for living. I'm talking about a mind state that people reach that makes them see things as better than they are. Drugs can heighten your awareness of all of the things you love, and why you love them - and this works the other way, too.

I guess you'd have to had tried some drugs to understand what I'm talking about.

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That's the thing: it's a loop. Oh, I haven't tried drugs, so I can't know what I'm talking about. On the other hand, those who apparently do understand, have tried them, and are therefore, I'd say, a little tainted in their interpretations...after all, the whole argument here is that drugs mess you up, or at least can...so who's to say that the whole reason people think they give you insight isn't because they're fooling everyone? There's no way around it. Either you've taken drugs, and therefore we'll never know whether you were just being fooled, or if your statement is true, or you've never taken them, and therefore you apparently cannot judge their effects...at least not in this way.

If by heightening your awareness, you mean simply to make more alert (perhaps even paranoid), then yeah, I wouldn't argue with that. I don't think "insighftul" would be a very good synonym for that, though.

Either you're really, really reaching, or I'm really confused. Maybe because I'm high.

just kidding

What exactly are you saying here? I don't understand.

I'm saying that if my opinion is inevitably off-base becase I'm incapable of understanding drugs, having not tried them, then your opinion is just as questionable, seeing as how the whole argument is that the drugs make you think you're seeing something insightful, when you're not.

I don't claim to be an expert. I do NOT think drugs will ruin the lives of all who try them. I think they'll have a highly negative effect on anyone who uses them as a routine part of their life, though. Do I have firsthand experience? No. I don't claim to...and having not tried them, there are surely some things I'm ignorant of. I don't think I need to try them to understand some basic things about them, however. There's a lot of things many of us are convinced are bad, that we haven't tried.

In short, I don't at all believe that I'm talking out of my a** here, even though I haven't tried them. Part of it is simple logic: it ain't insight if it becomes uninteresting and uninsightful as soon as the drugs wear off. I'm sure it messes with your head enough to make things seem very strange, and perhaps very new, and interesting...I find it exceedingly hard to believe, though, that you're actually learning anything new. Seems to me like it's giving you a warped, distorted view of the things you say in your daily life...which appears new, but is really an illusion.

Do people really learn new things simply because they got high? Do they solve problems that have been bugging them for awhile? Do they develop theories because of the drugs they take? These are the things that, to me, are genuinely insightful. It's a partial list, but I think you know what I mean.

I don't really see how that site could be helping your argument very much Goodf3lla. Reading everything on there all I can think about it not to touch drugs at all, and that includes alcohol, which is weird, 'cos I do drink -- but this site has put me right off.

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TSB I'm not arguing for anything I was expressing my opinion on drugs, and checking out other people...

and that site is purely factualy people take what thye want from it...before I try any drug I like to do my research on it, and you always know there's going to be a side effect on most drugs...but for instance if you look at the negative one for cannabis...

nausea
coughing, asthma, upper respiratory problems
difficulty with short term memory during effects and during periods of frequent use
racing heart, agitation,tenseness
mild to severe anxiety
panic attacks at very high doses (usually oral) or in sensitive users
headaches
dizziness, confusion
paranoid & anxious thoughts more frequent
possible psychological dependence on cannabis

they're all fun effects!! But seriously they're mostly for first time users because paranoia goes away once you know what to expect and you learn how to alter it's effects...but nothing that will harm you majorly "headaches" ffs! oh no! help! a+e! I feel dizzy!

No it's not you made it into that.

Although factually one of the effects of acid are enlightening spiritual experiences which is why magic mushrooms was often associated with religion...

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henry hill - Disclaimer: This disclaimer disclaims any claims that could be claimed from my post.

Questions:

What was the first experience you had with drugs?
What drugs have you done?
Are you a regular drug user?
Why?

I just don't really understand it.

Oh, and have you written anything for the "experience" sections on that site, GF? Just wondering.

Questions & Answers

What was the first experience you had with drugs?

Temazepam - I suffer sleep deprevation - prescribed them at 15, I needed them every night...they were nice and addictive...

What drugs have you done?

A lot legal and illegal - both equally as bad.

Are you a regular drug user?

Well I don't count cannabis as a drug so last time I did something "illegal" was new years eve...

Why?

Why not! heheh. You can't explain what you get from them so I won't bother trying. You're not interested in them so why ask.

I just don't really understand it.

Do you need to? You have no interest in drugs. As I keep reiterating, you can't talk about drugs unless you've tried them.

Oh, and have you written anything for the "experience" sections on that site, GF? Just wondering.

No.

TWT don't try and compare taking drugs to murder.

BTW: I don't know why you're all preaching anti-drug message, it's cuturally significant, especially for movie fans...how many great movies have been driven by drug induced minds...

anyone seen fear andl oathing in las vegas?

I think you're just trying to be "cool" and more worldly than us because you've tried drugs. Ooooh, you're so cool. I wish I was you.

Murder and drugs basically interwine something chronic. They can get very, very close to being one and the same.

I think it's pretty funny you're not giving us the names of your drugs -- very credible. I believe everything you say.


By the way, none of that should be taken with any offense. I just disagree with you and think you're trying to make us go "Wow". The funny part is it didn't work that way for you.

Idiot. is that what your mother told you ?

The reason why I didnt name drugs is so that one doesn't think that i'm trying to be cool. Mostly when I go to clubs ecstacy used to be my fav, but it gives me disfunctinal organs and jaw clenching is a ****er to deal with, especially in places where you have to queue a lot for drinks, or food. I also had a bad tab which gave me glandular fever. Only snorted coke once, that's an addictive drug, staying well away. I use speed when I need to get things done, it's fun you cna clean your room tidy your house wash the car do your work and still feel theres enough time to watch a few movies etc. Speed has a very medicinal quality to it, you wouldn't even notice you're on a drug. Cannabis smoke it regularly helps me get to sleep, can help you cool down if you're on speed too, it's effects are extremely similar to alcohol, but you know what you're doing all the time, there's a sober bit in your mind that just watches you doing stupid things. Acid a few times - that is the ultimate in mental ****ups - scared the **** out of me, especially when you have baby toys all over the place OOOOOH!
Ketamine - Horse tranquiliuzer, you can feel every bit of your body working, only done it once, didn't like it too much, it seemed to go on forever with me not being able to move smoke **** or piss...some people really like it, not for me. Mushrooms - out of season at the moment, but tried it first time a few months ago...not bad, close to acid qualities but nothing near as strong... But I'm only addicted to Nicotine and Caffiene. Hmm both are legal.

Main addictive legal drug:- amitryptillin + temazepam.

You're calling me an idiot?
Hee hee hee.

This reminds me of the God conversation.
Next thing I'll be eating poo, I guess.

At least it's good that you're only addicted to legal things.
Never done Heroin? Morphine? Righteo. So be it.

Toose and Patti have both tried...does that mean they're trying to be more worldly than you?

Tis why I didn't bother responding with a comment more than idiot.

Thank **** for murder and drugs, they make films a hell of a lot more interesting.

Where would pulp fiction be without murder and drugs? wehre would any gangster films be?

Patti and Toose basically kept it to themselves. They didn't deliberatly start a thread to discuss their views on drugs.

I'm not talking about drugs and murder in the films.
I'm talking about them in real situations. Films aren't real, despite what a healthy dose of weed and 'shrooms will tell you.

I've expressed my views, disagreed with you a bit, so on and so forth -- just because my views are different doesn't mean I qualify as an idiot. Thanks all the same.

Yes, that's my argument. That's what I'm saying, man.

People in the emergency room near death have what they believe are spiritual experiences. Like I said, I don't believe drugs enlighten you.

I can, and I will. I'm not comparing them to say that they're equally bad...I'm comparing them to say, quite simply, that we ALL preach against things we've never done.

I'm preaching anti-drug messages because there's almost no doubt in my mind that using them regularly is quite bad indeed. Now, I hope this isn't taken personally, but your style of writing is quite disjointed and hard to follow sometimes. How do I know that's not because of marijuana? I'd have to guess that it does have something to do with it, because your writing fluctuates on here unexpectedly.

Saw some. Bored me out of my mind.

It's kinda funny to me that you completely agree with me on cocaine, but act like you can't possibly understand why I'd find other drugs as bad. Is it really that much of a leap.

What's that got to do with anything? Murder and drug-use making films more interesting is not an argument for both to be used in real life. I know what you'll say: someone had to murder someone for murder to become a topic in a movie. Well, ya know what? I'd rather no one was murdered like that, and go without the movies that built off of it as a result.

Yeah, the "idiot" comment was, well, a little childish.

Sorry man, but everything I've heard (first-hand reports) and read tells me that you're fooling yourself if you think you're GENUINELY learning something by using drugs. "It is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself." (you're right, Steve, it is philosophy for stoners! )

No one has ever overdosed on Marijuana. People can OD on Marijuana mixed with heroine or cocaine, but not the plant itself.

Marijuana is actually good for you. It has more anti-oxidents than Vitamin E or Garlic and it can actually prevent brain damage. They are working on a pill derived from cannibis called cannibidiol(CBD) to give to stroke victims in the emergency room because it can prevent brain damage. The study that "proved" it caused Brain damage was done in the 70s, on monkeys, and no one has been able to duplicate the results.

Marijuana is only bad for you if you smoke it, like cigarettes. Also if it was legal people could make healthier joints (filters etc) and people could always eat hash brownies, or wear THC patches or whatever. If its not smoked there is no harm to your body.

People generally don't get mean and violent when they are high, they get happy, friendly, and sometimes paranoid. As such someone who is high is more likely to drive slow than drive fast.

The DEA spends 300 million dollars a year just killing naturally growing ragweed and other forms of cannibis. Seriously don't you think that could be better spent elsewhere?

Hemp and Cannibis would be huge cash crops for American Farmers. Right now even though its legal to sell Hemp its still not legal to grow it.

Marijuana is a gateway drug. Not because people who use it are more likely to try other drugs, but because you have to get it from a drug dealer. If you could buy it at Rite Aid it'd be a gateway to a 20z Mountain Dew and a little Debbie rather than Heroine and Crack.

In addition to what the DEA spends just killing the naturally growing plants we also pay for otherwise law abiding citizens to go to jail for marijuana.

Marijuana is less addictive than caffeine.

If it was legal we could tax it and in addition to the money saved and the money from increase farm revenues we'd also have tax revenues off it. These things could pay for education or for crime enforcement against real drugs, like Heroine and Cocaine.

If you could buy it at Rite Aid we could get some drug related violence off the streets.

If it was legal it would need an age limit of 21 I think, and while I'm at it cigarettes should be 21 too.

Now compare it to alcohol. Alcohol is a factor in 50% of all crimes and accidents. Seriously. It also can seriously damage your liver, and hang overs aren't fun. If you legalized marijuana this might change because some people may prefer to get high rather than drunk, and high people don't beat their wives.

Marijuana is much less harmful than alcohol, the only reason it isn't legal is that alcohol was discovered by modern civilizations much sooner and so it had become enveloped in our culture before we came to a point where we would think to ban it.

So in sum legalizing marijuana would:

Help Farmers
Save Tax Dollars
Make new Tax Dollars
Free Law Enforcement Resources
Save Lives lost to street crime
Stop the gateway effect
Maybe lower crime via less people drinking
Make it healthier (filters etc)


For more information norml.org

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my point isn't that drugs are a learning tool...this whole thread was started to see other people's opinions of them, and .

to me saying you do drugs cause you think you're cool is a childish comment and i would reply to it in an equally childish manner.

different drugs have different qualities coke has barely any short term side effects and it makes you feel superhuman....ooh scary!

Saying that you think you're cool may be a childish comment, but in retrospect you entire reasoning behind this thread is a little childish in my opinion.

Meanwhile, aspen, you have presented you argument in a much more intelligent and user-friendly way.

I can see where you are coming from, and I think in some instances you are right. Personally, I can only think -- what comes next after the legalisation of marijuana? Cocaine? Heroin? Maybe I am being a little paranoid, but the question still remains. Thanks for your insights.

Yeah, I feel the same way. I don't know that I like the idea of marijuana being legalized...but I don't like the idea of putting any real effort into getting rid of it, either. Hard drugs are the serious threat. I don't know of any statistics on how much of a "gateway" drug marijuana is, though.

Who the heck is Brandon Boyd and why do you hate him so?

I agree with everything you said.