Originally posted by Yoda
Come off it. I try to be polite to you, but it's as if you won't have it, so instead, I'm just gonna be blunt: do you have any idea what their religion teaches?
I've studied History of Religion at my university (i.e. Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and so on...) and I own a copy of the Quran. To be honest with you, it was a while ago and I realized that studying religion wasn't really my thing, so I don't remember that much. But we had an excellent teacher, a norwegian woman who had converted to islam, and she taught us about both Judaism and Islam with great insight and objectivity. Never once did I encounter anything warloving or hateful in her lectures. If you interpret the Quran in the right way, it's cool. If you're a fundametalist, it's dangerous. Just like with the Holy Bible.
Frankly, yes, sometimes I can be quite rude (always with a wink of the eye, though...

), but I don't see what was so unpolite with that comment. If you put a christian fundamentalist in the same room as an islamic fundametalist and compare it to a room with a secularized christian and a secularized muslim. In which room is the risk of a fight or at least a heated argument the highest, would you say?
This "maybe you just complain about it because you're a Christian" stuff is beyond ridiculous. The implication is that I am so devout in my Christian beliefs that I automatically complain about anything that differs simply because I feel differently. So, just come out and say that, why don't you? And better yet, why don't you demonstrate it? Wow me with your knowledge of the Qur'an and show me how I hold an unreasonable bias against their beliefs.
How can I do that when I don't know what in it you're so upset about? But for every quote you take out of context I'm sure I can find a quote or passage in the Bible that's outrageous or totally out of time. Do you interpret the Bible letter by letter? If not, neither should you do so with the Quran. If you do, you're a fundamentalist and as nuts as Bin Laden.
Or, better yet still, you could admit that your remark was casual and really based on nothing other than wanting to have something you perceived as scalding to say.
Your choice.
Well, as always, I think I chose wisely.
You really shouldn't be telling me to get a grip when you're the one making RAMPANT assumptions. This is really a trend with you, isn't it? You think you know what someone means, so you jump to conclusions and then argue with those faulty conclusions. You've done it with me before, and you did it in this thread with Toose, too.
The problem is that I don't have a clue what you mean. You asked me to define "bigotry". Well, I did. Then I asked you to define it, but all I got was clever twists with words. That's why I thought it had nothing to do with anything.
The trend with me is perhaps that I attack what I think is erroneous and I try to say exactly what I think without hurting someone's feelings. And speaking about jumping to conclusions... You accuse Islam of being a "bad religion" (great band by the way) but you won't have me pointing out the problematics in saying that, and also some possible reasons for you to say that. Because then I'm attacking you personally.
The remark is true. Narrowminded people tend to call others narrowminded simply because they disagree with them.
Well, that will just have to stand for you. If I disagree with someone I believe I am always able to motivate why I disagree with that person. If you think that's being narrowminded, I strongly disagree with you - and according to you being narrowminded as well.
Bigotry can come in two forms: it can be based on basically nothing (IE: I don't like you because you look different than I do, even though you can't really help it at all), or it can be based on something (IE: I don't like your belief system, therefore you are an altogether evil person, and I'm going to assume all sorts of things about you based on my disagreement with your beliefs).
Right. And not liking muslims because they're muslims must therefore be a case of bigotry.
However, it is NOT bigotry to disagree with someone...it is not bigotry to disapprove of their lifestyle or religion. It becomes bigotry when you start making assumptions about them outside of their professed beliefs and choices.
So, where does that put the comment: "You gotta love them peace lovin' moslems"? If Toose had meant it the way I first thought he meant it (i.e. "all muslims want war") - isn't that to make assumptions about them outside their professed beliefs?
The whole thing about racism is that you're judging people on their skin, and not, as Martin Luther King put it, the "content of their character." When you judge someone by their decisions and the beliefs they follow, you are, in fact, judging them by what you see as the "content of their character." There's nothing wrong with that as long as you don't start making assumptions beyond that, and as long as you don't start seeing others with similar beliefs as identical in your head.
Racism and bigotry is not the same thing. I actually went as far as looking it up... In my dictionary "bigotry" means: "fanatism, narrowmindness".... In fact, another dictionary actually explained "bigotry" with: "Excessively devout, religiously narrowminded". There you have it.
Anyway, I just want to point out again that I do
NOT think Toose is a bigot in any way. It may sound like that to anyone that hasn't followed this discussion from the beginning up til now.