1940's Hall of Fame II

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... basically what I meant was that it didn't seem realistic to me because people just don't do things like that nowadays. I don't know whether or not it's realistic for its time because I wasn't around back then, but it's hard for me to believe that everyone would just give up so much for others like that, and that everything just works out no matter how bad things get. (There's not even one selfish person in the whole family? )

I still enjoyed the movie, (even more on a second watch), but it just made it more of a fantasy world than reality for me, even though the movie as a whole has a more realistic feel than a fantasy feel.
There's no one that's selfish in my family. Not every family has selfish people in it. And besides Barbara Bel Geddes is selfish when she wants the graduation present that ends up costing her mother too much money.



There's no one that's selfish in my family. Not every family has selfish people in it. And besides Barbara Bel Geddes is selfish when she wants the graduation present that ends up costing her mother too much money.
Not trying to speak for her but i don't think she literally meant every family has a selfish member, just that there's a good chance alot will especially a fair sized family like that.

I think you're kinda both right for the record, a family like that certainly could have existed but it's still easy to find it unrealistic, actually improbable is probably a better word as it's maybe not the norm. I dunno, i know what i mean anyway haha.



Also another thing that just came to mind when i was wondering if any of my family are/were selfish is that just because none of them were in these specific instances in the film doesn't mean they never were. So i think it's easier to accept if you think of it that way, they potentially were selfish at times but showing that didn't fit with the story. Gotta love how you guys have me talking about fictional characters as if they did lead lives outside of the events in the film haha.

My parents are and never were selfish when i was growing up and me and my siblings are all adults now and we aren't selfish, but we all did act selfish at times when we were kids; doesn't mean it was a constant part of our character just that we acted selfishly one time or another.



You can't make a rainbow without a little rain.
There's no one that's selfish in my family. Not every family has selfish people in it. And besides Barbara Bel Geddes is selfish when she wants the graduation present that ends up costing her mother too much money.

I'm not saying that every family has selfish people in it, but it's just human nature to do things for yourself once in a while, and we didn't really see any of that in this family.

Even when Barbara Bel Geddes wants the graduation present, she gives it back after she finds out what her mother gave up to get it for her. So she was only selfish if it didn't take anything from anyone else. She still put her family ahead of herself, so while it was something that she wanted, it wasn't really selfish because she gave it up for her mother.
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You can't make a rainbow without a little rain.
Also another thing that just came to mind when i was wondering if any of my family are/were selfish is that just because none of them were in these specific instances in the film doesn't mean they never were. So i think it's easier to accept if you think of it that way, they potentially were selfish at times but showing that didn't fit with the story. Gotta love how you guys have me talking about fictional characters as if they did lead lives outside of the events in the film haha.
The fact that you believe that these people are real, and they lead lives outside of the film makes it a good film.


My parents are and never were selfish when i was growing up and me and my siblings are all adults now and we aren't selfish, but we all did act selfish at times when we were kids; doesn't mean it was a constant part of our character just that we acted selfishly one time or another.
This is what I mean. It's normal for people to be selfish at times, especially kids, but we didn't see anything like that in the movie. These were like perfect kids in a perfect family, and that's just not realistic.



Body and Soul



This was very good. The best thing about the film was the story and the way it was structured. You could tell from the opening that Charlies life was in a bad place and while it wasn't hard to guess what got him there it was still interesting to see it all unfold. I actually found Charlie always likeable simply because it's very easy to imagine someone like him going down this path in this situation, i totally bought him as a character. A guy who has never known this sort of lifestyle/financial comfort who above everything wants to take care of his mum, friend and wife ending up this naive and allowing all of this to become out of control is exactly how i'd expect this to play out. He was chewed up and spat out by life, this was the only way for him to get out of his tough predicament at the start and since he is principled shown by him being so offended at his mother going to charity for instance, it is easy to imagine this eating him up inside because once he's in there's no real way out. I thought it was funny that Shorty and Peg pushed him towards boxing and those two ended up abandoning him when things went too far, Shorty was the one who introduced him to Quinn and constantly pushed for a relationship between the two and Peg convinced him on the rooftop to box if he wanted to. Peg's isn't bad as she didn't have any idea what it would lead to but Shorty was kind of a hypocrite, surely he had to know what Quinn was all about. Great depiction, i liked him and his arc alot. I was one of the few who didn't dislike Garfield in The Sea Wolf but i definitely think he was alot better here. The film ended exactly how i would have ended it: technically a happy ending but not really as there's no way Roberts is just going to let it go, although you could see it as a happy ending either way since Charley got his soul back regardless of what happens next.

Lili Palmer's performance was fair enough but i wasn't a fan of how her character was written, she had some awful lines that made it difficult for me to accept her as a real person. To be fair though i like how she stayed principled and clearly cared about Charlie when he started spiraling out of control. I actually preferred Hazel Brooks, i don't even think she gave a better performance it's because her voice reminded me of Veronica Lake; and i really love Lake haha. The romance was so quick and not fleshed out that it wasn't very believable; i feel like i say this about every 40's film. She was reluctant to go out with him then reluctant to go to his home then she loved him on the roof for some reason after a short meal? That must have been some very strong tea his mum served, jesus. Whatever i got into it more as it went on as often happens. All of the other main characters worked for me. Lloyd Gough played his role perfectly, i read his wikipedia since i'd never heard of him and it seems that's largely because he was blacklisted for refusing to testify during the red scare not working regularly again til he was around 60 which is a shame. He was a simple character but i don't think he needed to be any more than that, a guy who acts like he's looking out for Charlie when really he's only interested in squeezing him for what he's worth. He reminded me a bit of Kirk Douglas' character in Out of the Past, that may have only been because he looked a bit similar to him though. Can't really say much about Shorty, he was solid as his friend who guenuinely cared for him, apparently he was only in four films so i'd say while he wasn't amazing he was still pretty impressive since he wasn't that experienced. Charlie's mother was good too, although i wish there was more to her; can't say whether it was the performance or the way she was written but i thought she had the potential to be one of the very best parts of the film and she never quite got there for me, still solid though. Last but not least: Ben, jesus christ i felt awful for him, the film was terrible to him and he was such a nice guy; loved his relationship with Charlie, wouldn't have minded a few more scenes with those two.

Was interested in the match-fixing part, i've actually read a fair amount about the NYC match-fixing scene during this time due to the Mafia's involvement in it. Was curious if Roberts was based on Genovese Crime Family member (and later Under/Acting Boss) Thomas 'Tommy Ryan' Eboli, for a time before he lost his license it was almost impossible to move up in the boxing world as a NYC fighter without Eboli having a say in it. Alot of future high ranking mafia members started out as boxers willing to throw fights like future Genoves boss Vincent 'The Chin' Gigante who was a Light-Heavyweight, it's really impossible to say if he was a good fighter or not since he was with the mafia from the start and it seems like he had no interest in boxing it was just a stepping stone to moving up in the mafia: he fought 25 times and lost 4 most likely all fixed and some of his wins were most likely fixed in his favour to build him up so the pay out would be bigger when he threw one, his last fight was actually in 1947 when this came out he was only 19. More than likely it's not as i doubt Eboli's fixing was publicly known at this time since he never lost his license until 1952 and that wasn't even for match-fixing it was for assaulting a ref and the other fighters manager, who knows though maybe it was an open secret: i do find it odd that this film came out during his prime match-fixing days when it was a massive money maker for the mafia. Admittedly it's alot more likely that he was just a completely made up character because it was known that this was going on. Also thinking about it, it's more likely that Eboli would be Quinn since he was the manager with the connections to the underworld, Roberts would most likely be Vito Genovese/Tony Strollo: Eboli's Capo's during this time that he reported to. Anyway i know noone cares about this other than me so i'll shut up haha.

Like this alot, thanks for nominating Cricket. So just Ride The Pink Horse and Gentleman Jim if Blix is still in.



Glad you liked the ending as many here did not. I thought the future uncertainty it left was the perfect way to go.
Haven't read the other reviews yet will do that now. Very surprised that some didn't like it.




The Boxing scenes....Geez those looked real to me.
Disagree, i liked them too but they didn't look real. No boxing scene in any movie looks real, every punch thrown in them are either clean hits or misses and that just never happens in boxing ever. It's either hit or miss nothing inbetween.

I did find them entertaining too and Garfield did look good in the ring though.






While, nowadays, this is an exceedingly common story that has been done to near death; Body and Soul does it . . . well, like the title says: with body AND soul.
Don't have anything to comment on but i just want to say i really enjoyed this review.

Also i'm reading all of your reviews, i had already repped several though just so you know i haven't skipped yours.



Body and Soul

WARNING: "SPOILERS ABOUT THE ENDING!!!!" spoilers below
Charlie Davis was paid off the throw the fight, but he didn't, and then he expects to just walk away, without the guys who paid him coming after him?! That just doesn't make sense. There would be consequences to his actions, and most likely, they would come after him and kill him. So basically, him trying to redeem himself at the end would just be worthless.

He fully expects them to come after him, that's made abundantly clear by him saying "What are you going to do kill me? Everybody dies." i have no clue where you got that idea. The point was that he didn't want to live that way anymore, it was making him miserable and as if he had betrayed everyone who cared about him, he would rather die a man with principles (and he still fully had them as he never threw any fights) than live with that. Totally get someone not believing they'd make the same decision and while it's rare it does happen. To go back to the mafia that i rabbled on about earlier: there was a New England Union Member (can't remember his name) who the mob tried to make steal from the Pension fund he had partial control over and he refused to do so, going to the mafia owned police and when they wouldn't do anything trying to tell everyone he could in the union not to bend over for those thugs, fully knowing he'd most likely be killed and he was pretty quickly. It's the same basic thing as Charley in the movie, certainly rare but it does happen.



Body and Soul

That's it. All good. Happy end. And this is my main problem with this movie, the happy ending is forced in. Where is a part the Quinn's guys beat a crap out of him? Where is a part a part Charley is forced to return those 60 thousand? Where is all that drama? The ending was too neat for me and I missed something.
Why did we need to see it? To me it's a case of the implication being better than actually seeing it. We know that's were it's headed, i don't see what actually seeing his beating or death would have added; i preferred it left open ended anyway. I mean it's not really a happy ending which is what i like about it, he is back with the woman he loves and he has his soul back but his life isn't going to be happy exactly: his best friend and other best friend (haha) are dead, his mom won't speak to him and Roberts is almost certainly going to want revenge, i can't see a way for it to end well for him and the movie lets you decide that yourself. Charley and Peg walking away smiling with the happy music was almost ironic to me, that happy feeling probably wouldn't even last the rest of the night. Great ending.



Body and Soul

But quite Vanilla in a world where Mint Chocolate Chip reigns supreme.

Mint Chocolate Chip is such a Vanilla flavour, and also Vanilla is better

Too bad you didn't like it but i can get why.



[center]Body and Soul

My favourite line in this is when Charley and his mother are poor and she doesn’t want him to fight, she tells him he might as well buy a gun and shoot himself and he replies, "You need money to buy a gun!"
Damn, think that was mine too forgot about that. One of my problems with Peg is they sometimes tried to make her kind of witty and she just didn't pull it off for me, dunno if it was the delivery or what. A line that's kinda similar to that that didn't work for me was Charlie saying "but i'm the champ", and Peg replying "You mean Roberts is.", you can tell the writers fistbumped each other after that and i'm embarrased for them

WARNING: "Ending" spoilers below
I don’t have a problem with Charley winning the fight after all, that made sense to me. He doesn’t go in intending to. He’s clearly not quite in a clear frame of mind by that point after so many blows to the head (and there’s a clear parallel with Ben in his final scene). It’s not hard to see why an impulsive character would, after the literal and metaphorical knocks he’s had, want to fight back at whoever’s in front of him. I have a bit more of a problem with the film presenting this as a victory, a plausible happy ending. He might not care if he dies, I can even see it as a plausible that it’s a suicide mission in a way - his last fight, going out still the champion. But him going off with Peg into happy retirement right under Roberts’ nose? I think if the film continued for another ten minutes we would have seen Peg dead in a ditch.


Altogether a good film, I liked it.
Man i get your problem but i really don't agree. I don't think it was a forced happy ending because i don't think it was happy at all, or was at least short lived. I totally agree that Charley and possibly Peg would be dead after this so it makes the potential aftermath really dark despite this being a warm seeming ending. Yeah i basically just repeated what you said then said that's why it's good haha.

Would you have preferred him throw the fight or to see him killed or what? Just wondering.



Sorry for posting like 12 times in a row but i remember a few of you (can't remember who as i read them all right after each other) saying you found Charley someone who wanted to be champ more than anything, win at all costs, etc. Personally, i didn't get that impression, i didn't even get the impression that he cared about boxing much. Shorty was the one heavily pushing him towards Quinn to get further in the boxing world, Charleys behaviour towards Quinn during those early scenes could've seriously jeapordized any chance of him moving up which doesn't really fit in with that in my opinion. Then the reason he got back into boxing was anger/shame/pride/whatever at his mother having to go to a charity for him. When he became a success the thing that was driving him was clearly the money and lifestyle, and the only reason he still boxed after he had became disillusioned by it was because he had no choice. The only scene he seemed driven as a boxer to me was the last fight and that was clearly because he wanted out of Roberts shackles rather than any love for boxing. We obviously don't see how he became a boxer but to me i imagine it was a potential way out of poverty, possibly to learn how to defend himself as well in a tough neighbourhood, i personally don't see it as a love for the sport.

Don't remember who said that and i very well may be the one that's wrong just wanted to explain the way i took it.

Anyway i hope i never type another word about Body and Soul



Sorry for posting like 12 times in a row...
Yeah, that might be some kind of Hof record Participation is always good, so cool that you read all those Body and Soul reviews

It seems like a year since I watched Body and Soul, I had forgotten all their character names...and I think I liked the ending? I guess I should read my own review now.