The MoFo Top 100 Musicals Countdown [Archive] - Page 9

iluv2viddyfilms

11-19-24, 07:14 PM

https://www.womansworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/grease-movie-secrets-greased-lightning.jpg?w=1000&quality=86&strip=all

OMG, I completely forgot that Grease existed. I never would have predicted it in a thousand years if I were to guess the top 10.

Does anyone have a mop or some Spill Magic... some of that grease is dripping down on to My Fair Lady in the number 10 spot and we need a clean up!

OK, OK; I'll try to play nice with others.

Needless to say, Grease wasn't on my list. I probably haven't seen it since I was in junior high or maybe high school, outside of maybe seeing it on TV occasionally over the years and watching two or three minutes of it. The 1950's pastiche/homage thing doesn't really work at all for me, the way it does in say a David Lynch film. It's interesting that the 1970's and into the 1980's featured a lot of works that tried to create that 1950's vibe... obviously Grease being one, but also of course a film like American Graffiti and and shows like "Happy Days" or "Saved by the Bell."

I just could not absolutely get into Grease. At all. It seemed somehow superficial and cliche' to me with the treatment of doo wops, 50s diners, bobby soxers, early rock n' roll, and the whole fast cars thing. Also Grease suffers from a lot of films that feature high schoolers in that casting 20 and 30 year olds is always a pitfall. What worked so well in David Lynch films like Blue Velvet and Wild at Heart in trying to catch that Rebel Without a Cause vibe, falls so flat for me in Grease, for whatever reasons. Something about it seems very superficial to me, like it's just trying to hit all the notes in a haphazardly and "check the box" fashion.

Even a book and its film like The Outsiders treated the material better and as far as coming of age stuff that harkened back to the 1950s or a pre-JFK assassination 1960s, that was released in the 1970s or 1980s I liked a film like Stand by Me or even the silliness and perfection and fun that is Back to the Future. I think by the 1970s and 1980s a lot of filmmakers who were old enough, at the time in their 30s, 40s, and 50s age to be in positions of creative and producing power just went wild with the whole 1950s thing and nostalgia for their youth.

But yeah Grease burst onto the scene in 1978 like Meatloaf on a motorcycle in Rocky Horror, a bat out of 50's pastiche Hell in full leather jacket, white t shirt, Levis Jeans, sideburns, and jet black greased up hair, four years before I was born, but I have always and will always dislike this material. The music is just meh to me too and I can't really listen to it as it's so drool and uncreative to me.

"Tell me more, tell more!" - No I've likely said enough and have done enough to rain on everyone's parade who voted for it. I understand why people like it and it's a film that was just around so much in our childhood for those who grew up in the 80s and 90s. It was a film shown at school in music classes, it has been performed in 1,000 local high school musical productions, and it has gotten played 10,000 times on cable TV.

I'm sorry, again I know people love it, but I just can't... I can't.

With all apologizes to those who voted for it and for Audrey who has the misfortune of being placed right under it in the number 10 spot. Couldn't we have at least given Eliza the respect and honor of being sandwiched between two great musicals instead of just one?

MovieMeditation

11-19-24, 07:20 PM

Grease was #5 on my list.

One of my earliest memories of a non-Disney slash animated musical. I have fond memories of it growing up.

I have seen it a few times since of course and I still think it’s a really solid musical with great songs and dancing and just an overall really fun vibe…

It’s not an amazing cinematic masterpiece or anything, but it does extremely well in the musical category in my opinion.

stillmellow

11-19-24, 07:22 PM

*cough*
#11 of 18. on my ballot

https://youtu.be/cxRq0KzjxZI?si=ne6ArkagCAB-ZzrP

I'd say, if you tell someone The Wicker Man is a musical going in, and they're hoping for a musical, they'll probably be disappointed. But going in, not realizing it could be classified for a musical, it really threw me for a loop in terms of the tone that was going on. Just so much singing. If it was only of the very normal, diegetic type, such as, the Landlord's Daughter in the pub, one wouldn't think much of it beyond scene setting. But then you have Britt Eckland singing Willow's Song in a non-diegetic fashion, and things just go off in my brain. Throw in the framing of the performer of Summerisle (the Maypole Song), which centers on the singer for so much of the song. It's somewhat conventional in classic hollywood where they're trying to show off a female lead. Or acting as a guest star musical performer (which maybe this was as well), but it shifts the focus of the film away from the usual narrative to the performer in the way a musical does.

https://youtu.be/cYLRRrfPJ1s?si=m3ufUwQnfbatVlW_

And, like I said, my brain just needs to accept that the movie is part-musical. Some of this might be due to expected conventions of the genre, since, say, Rio Bravo or Three Amigos, you expect usually about a single song where reality breaks for a musical interlude. But here were getting multiple cases of either non-diegetic or non-diegetic feeling musical performances (technically, the Maypole Song would be considered non-diegetic, but feels framed non-diegetically).

Throw in the establishing song scene, Fire Leap

https://youtu.be/9jAJQsq4ZOU?si=k19rWyoyRb82NB_N
Probably comparable to the intercutting of performances in Cabaret between the nightclub musical pieces and the scene occurring outside the music club.

That's just too many to write off as something other than a musical (the one caveat in Fire Leap and The Maypole Song is the song isn't taken to completion, as they continue on in the background of the following scene).

I could also include the song at the end, but that's just too diegetic, and audibly isn't the focus of the scene.

Oh, and so, with the other songs, it's hard not to then retro-actively include The Landlord's Daughter as musical performances:

https://youtu.be/xx70L_wBZB8?si=hPnIIundyTWR8OyI&t=57

I'm all for a full stage musical adaptation of the original Wicker Man

Wooley

11-19-24, 07:22 PM

No.7 on my ballot.
I saw it in the theater with my Mom when it came out, more than once, saw it on HBO god knows how many times, then on VHS, more in college when we decided we still weren't too bro to love Grease, sang along with the songs drunk in bars with other young men and women into my mid-20s, and still watch it every once in a while now. Last time I saw it I was still enamored. Also have seen several different performances of the play.
Oh, I was Vince Fontaine in the play in Middle School and then played guitar in the band for it in High School.

I not only enjoy the hell out of Grease but I really do admire it. So much about it is being executed at such a high level. Hell, the theme song is written by Barry Gibb of the Bee Gees and sung by Frankie Valli of The Four Seasons with Peter F-ing Framptom on guitar! And that's like the opening credits. Olivia Newton-John is fantastic, Stockard Channing is fantastic, all the 30 year-old actors playing high-school students are great, Didi Conn is great, Eve Arden is great, Frankie Avalon singing "Beauty School Dropout"... Grease is just a great, great production.

I actually wonder if I ever met anyone in my life in my cohort who couldn't sing "Summer Lovin'" straight through without missing a syllable?

rauldc14

11-19-24, 07:32 PM

I had Grease at 16 I just technically saw it for the first time right before this countdown.

Citizen Rules

11-19-24, 07:50 PM

I like Grease 2:shifty:

cricket

11-19-24, 07:50 PM

It's been a while so I'm not even certain how much I'd like Grease today, but I can still remember where I was sitting when I was watching the opening credits when I was just 7. Grease was a big deal for quite a while and I kind of grew up with it. Then the songs came back into my life with all the blousers and nimrods singing them on karaoke night. I also associated it with one of my favorite films, Saturday Night Fever, even though they are very different. I always liked Travolta and ONJ.

1. The Blues Brothers (#19)
3. Umbrellas of Cherbourg (#11)
5. Charlotte's Web (#79)
7. Stingray Sam (#46)
8. Grease (#9)
9. Hedwig and the Angry Inch (#15)
10. The Lure (#51)
11. Yankee Doodle Dandy (#32)
13. Dancer in the Dark (#20)
14. A Star is Born 2018 (#43)
15. Sing Street (#40)
16. Once (#25)
17. Calamity Jane (#84)
20. Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street (#66)
21. A Star is Born 1954 (#67)
22. La La Land (#13)
23. Pink Floyd - The Wall (#41)
24. The Young Girls of Rochefort (#36)
25. 42nd Street (#76)

Wooley

11-19-24, 07:58 PM

I like Grease 2:shifty:

So do I.
It's not good.
But I like it anyway.

kgaard

11-19-24, 07:59 PM

Huh, I did not see Grease coming. It's fine, I guess?

Wooley

11-19-24, 08:00 PM

Here's some interesting Grease trivia that adds some perspective.
It was the highest-grossing movie of 1978.
It was the second highest-grossing film in Paramount history and when it was re-released in '79 it passed The Godfather for No.1
But perhaps more impressively, the Grease Soundtrack had four songs chart in the Top Five of the Billboard Hot 100.
And two of them hit No.1.

Holden Pike

11-19-24, 08:02 PM

102660

Grease was #59 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1970s.

Miss Vicky

11-19-24, 08:04 PM

I like Grease 2:shifty:

I didn't but Maxwell Caulfield is much better looking than Travolta, so it at least had that going for it.

iluv2viddyfilms

11-19-24, 08:07 PM

I want a Grease-less film. It has the same characters, only they're now in their 80s or 90s, hanging out at the long term care residential facility. They still form cliques and now they play Bingo and shuffle around in dances, the pink shawl ladies and knitted argyle sweatered boys, and by now they're well into their golden years having saved millions of dollars and they now try to escape the facility in their Tesla grease-less lightning electric vehicles after their kids forcefully plopped them there in the old folks home, reliving the glory days of old, while battling the rival younger generations who are trying to ensure their spot in the inheritance and will. Their bones aren't as greased up as they used to be with arthritis and osteoporosis, but they still know how to rock out and gum out an old tune! Make it happen, make it happen!

beelzebubble

11-19-24, 08:08 PM

My favorite song. It's funny and kind of dirty. Perfect for me as a teenagers.

https://youtu.be/cfmhj9paI4Q?si=q3Gd9krKNGyGwF-N

Citizen Rules

11-19-24, 08:12 PM

My favorite song. It's funny and kind of dirty. Perfect for me as a teenagers.

https://youtu.be/cfmhj9paI4Q?si=q3Gd9krKNGyGwF-NYou know the funny thing about that song is Sandra Dee did drink and smoke IRL.

Little Ash

11-19-24, 08:21 PM

I'm all for a full stage musical adaptation of the original Wicker Man

Maybe an outdoor production on a British isle with a life-size wicker man they burn down at the end. Indoor stage play feels inappropriate for a folk horror adaptation.

Siddon

11-19-24, 08:31 PM

Not good enough for top ten. Just not. Decent, fun, but not top ten.

Here's my argument for Grease (1978) look at the year it came out

https://www.flickchart.com/Charts.aspx?year=1978&perpage=100

It should have won the Oscar for Best Picture. Great musicals to me work as different genres and Grease is a great romance, and period piece. And if this were nostalgia for today it would take place in the 2000's when you talk about time frame. Which should make everyone feel old and terrible.

1. Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story (2007) (74)
2. Purple Rain (1984) (81)
3. Black Orpheus (1959) (obviously isn't going to show up)
4. Still to come
5. The Rocky Horror Picture Show (1975) (14)
6. Little Shop of Horrors (1986) (18)
7. Still to come
8. Still to come
9. Grease (1978)
10. This Is Spinal Tap (1984) (55)

KeyserCorleone

11-19-24, 09:11 PM

Here's my argument for Grease (1978) look at the year it came out

https://www.flickchart.com/Charts.aspx?year=1978&perpage=100

It should have won the Oscar for Best Picture. Great musicals to me work as different genres and Grease is a great romance, and period piece. And if this were nostalgia for today it would take place in the 2000's when you talk about time frame. Which should make everyone feel old and terrible.

1. Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story (2007) (74)
2. Purple Rain (1984) (81)
3. Black Orpheus (1959) (obviously isn't going to show up)
4. Still to come
5. The Rocky Horror Picture Show (1975) (14)
6. Little Shop of Horrors (1986) (18)
7. Still to come
8. Still to come
9. Grease (1978)
10. This Is Spinal Tap (1984) (55)

Too many songs, not enough character development. It might be a musical, but musicals are still stories.

MovieFan1988

11-19-24, 09:48 PM

stillmellow

11-19-24, 09:56 PM

Maybe an outdoor production on a British isle with a life-size wicker man they burn down at the end. Indoor stage play feels inappropriate for a folk horror adaptation.

I like your style. 👍

stillmellow

11-19-24, 09:58 PM

Maybe an outdoor production on a British isle with a life-size wicker man they burn down at the end. Indoor stage play feels inappropriate for a folk horror adaptation.

BETTER YET the audience all stands up at that part of the performance, walks to where the giant Wicker Man is, and plays the rest of the villagers, all joining in the song and dance as it burns.

Holden Pike

11-19-24, 10:09 PM

I remember when I first started to watch Grease, when I saw John Travolta singing and dancing for the first time, I just shut the movie off it felt weird seeing him sing and dance lol, I'm just used to seeing him in action type movies that's all.
Now try and imagine for those of us older than you how silly it is seeing somebody we first knew as a sitcom character and singing/dancing movie star who is supposed to be taken seriously in a John Woo flick.

Thief

11-19-24, 10:13 PM

Never seen Grease. Big blind spot for me.

Anyway, here's where I stand...

SEEN: 32/92
MY BALLOT: 14/25

1. Moulin Rouge! (#30)
2. Little Shop of Horrors (#18)
3.
4. Once (#25)
5. La La Land (#13)
6. Aladdin (#22)
7. An American in Paris (#42)
8.
9. Cabin in the Sky (#103)
10. The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh (#110)
11.
12. Inside Llewyn Davis (#53)
13. Moana (#68)
14. Sing Street (#40)
15.
16. My Fair Lady (#10)
17. Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street (#66)
18. Chicago (#21)
19.
20.
21. The Band Wagon (#80)
22.
23.
24.
25. Hallelujah (One-pointer)

Siddon

11-19-24, 10:13 PM

Too many songs, not enough character development. It might be a musical, but musicals are still stories.

It has character development but rather than do the three act structure you get the big ensemble that deals with the larger themes. It's the same thing that was done with American Graffiti, and Dazed and Confused you speaking of generalities and giving a snapshot of this time/place/people. The film is less than 2 hours long...pacing matters.

KeyserCorleone

11-19-24, 10:20 PM

It has character development but rather than do the three act structure you get the big ensemble that deals with the larger themes. It's the same thing that was done with American Graffiti, and Dazed and Confused you speaking of generalities and giving a snapshot of this time/place/people. The film is less than 2 hours long...pacing matters.

You kidding? The side characters all practically blend in with each other to the point where I could've had difficulty telling the guys from the girls. None of that Scooby-Doo gang stuff, it was empty as hell! I went back on it once just to see if I could more easily differentiate the groups and it was no different! Rizzo was a practical clique leader so she didn't count as a side to me, but damn, I've seen more develkoped sidekicks and gangsters on The Fairly Oddparents.

Siddon

11-19-24, 10:35 PM

You kidding? The side characters all practically blend in with each other to the point where I could've had difficulty telling the guys from the girls. None of that Scooby-Doo gang stuff, it was empty as hell! I went back on it once just to see if I could more easily differentiate the groups and it was no different! Rizzo was a practical clique leader so she didn't count as a side to me, but damn, I've seen more develkoped sidekicks and gangsters on The Fairly Oddparents.

Rizzo, Frenchie, Keneckie, Teen Angel, Coach, The Principal, Danny and Sandy...the rest of the cast is just named chorus line. I'm happy they aren't fully fleshed character I don't need to know about Jan or Putzie they aren't important.

stillmellow

11-19-24, 10:43 PM

Too low for Grease, but at least it cracked the Top 10 so pat yourself on the back MoFo's who voted for it!

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fc.tenor.com%2FS49N5ONwIw8AAAAd%2Fgive-yourself-a-pat-on-the-back.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=68d6350b503dd97ccf44de68250a8537634ec4c6e870019be5db0d5758b53eea&ipo=images

I expected it to make top 5. Not my cup of tea, but it's fun.

iluv2viddyfilms

11-19-24, 10:59 PM

I remember when I first started to watch Grease, when I saw John Travolta singing and dancing for the first time, I just shut the movie off it felt weird seeing him sing and dance lol, I'm just used to seeing him in action type movies that's all.

To me he will always be the taxi driver in Looks Who's Talking... I'm too young to remember him in his 70's stuff, which I didn't see until later, and too old to think of him as in a gazillion silly action films.

His best film is Blow Out. I do like and value Pulp Fiction, though not nearly as much as some or the film's reputation. Get Shorty was decent as was the remake of The Taking of Pelham One, Two, Three. Oh, and Urban Cowboy is watchable.

Other than that...meh. Not a draw at all. Has he even done anything in awhile? Also he's gotta be pushing 70 years old and isn't he just busy flying airplanes and such now?

KeyserCorleone

11-19-24, 11:08 PM

Rizzo, Frenchie, Keneckie, Teen Angel, Coach, The Principal, Danny and Sandy...the rest of the cast is just named chorus line. I'm happy they aren't fully fleshed character I don't need to know about Jan or Putzie they aren't important.

That's the problem. You literally just confirmed it. If I want to see a movie about two gangs clashing, I want to see what makes the gangs stand out from other pop culture gangs.

dadgumblah

11-19-24, 11:40 PM

I had Grease at #7. I first saw it on its re-release with my first love when I was just out of high school, if you want to "date" someone. So that fact alone would make it a sentimental winner for me, but I truly love the movie. I don't care that the teens are played by full-blown adults. C'mon, the car with the two leads flies away into the sky at the end! Who wants realism. This was pure fun and that's I expected and that's what I got. Oh, and first love with me or not, I loved me some Olivia Newton-John and her scene at the end in the leather suit made me love her even more! I'm glad it cracked the Top 10. Cheers to the rest of you MoFos who voted for it.

EDIT: Just for kicks, I thought I'd mention that while I was commenting on Grease, one of the hit songs from the film came on my 70s cable station---You're the One That I Want. That kind of stuff seems to happen to me a lot.

#1. On the Town #93 (list proper)
#2. Holiday Inn #109 (NEAR MISS)
#5. The Blues Brothers #19 (list proper)
#6. Easter Parade #78 (list proper)
#7. Grease #9 (list proper)
#8. Meet Me in St. Louis #33 (list proper)
#9 Yankee Doodle Dandy #32 (list proper)
#10. Gigi #85 (list proper)
#12. Calamity Jane #84 (list proper)
#14. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers #71 (list proper)
#18. The Muppet Movie #45 (list proper)
#25. Neptune's Daughter (one-pointer)

SpelingError

11-20-24, 12:13 AM

I saw Grease a while ago and barely remember it. Given my rating, it seems I enjoyed it somewhat. I haven't felt an urge to revisit it but maybe someday.

Wooley

11-20-24, 12:54 AM

My favorite song. It's funny and kind of dirty. Perfect for me as a teenagers.

https://youtu.be/cfmhj9paI4Q?si=q3Gd9krKNGyGwF-N

Always loved that bit.

Wooley

11-20-24, 12:56 AM

Now try and imagine for those of us older than you how silly it is seeing somebody we first knew as a sitcom character and singing/dancing movie star who supposed to be taken seriously in a John Woo flick.

Ex-ACTLY, Holden.

Wooley

11-20-24, 12:59 AM

His best film is Blow Out... Oh, and Urban Cowboy is watchable.

You, my friend, are correct.

gbgoodies

11-20-24, 01:20 AM

The Nightmare Before Christmas is one of those movies that I can't decide how I feel about it. I love the music, but I kind of go back and forth on if I like the movie or not. I debated including it on my list because of the music, but after rewatching it for this countdown, it missed my list. But I'm glad to see it made the countdown. In fact, this time of the year, the song "What's this?" is my ringtone.

I watched Hedwig And the Angry Inch because several people recommended it. I expected to hate it, but it turned out to be better than I expected, but not good enough for me to consider it for my list.

When I was in college, I saw The Rocky Horror Picture Show in the theater with the audience participation more times than I can count because that's where all my friends were every Friday and Saturday night. I hated it the first time I saw it, but after seeing it so many times, now I only dislike it. But I have to admit that some of the songs are kind of fun. I'm not surprised that it made it his high on the countdown, but I'm just glad that it didn't take the #1 spot.

I was a bit late getting around to watching La La Land, so by the time I saw it, I had heard so much about it that my expectations were sky high, and I don't think it was possible for it to meet those expectations. That's probably the reason why it didn't make my list. I like the movie, but I don't love it as much as I thought I would. It's a great throwback to the classic musicals, but it just doesn't live up to them for me.

I love Disney's Beauty and the Beast, and I strongly considered it for my list, but I just couldn't find room for it on my list. It was one of several animated movies that I considered for my #25 spot, but it lost out to a different Disney movie. I'm thrilled to see it made it this high on the countdown.

I'm generally not a fan of foreign (non-English) movies, but The Umbrellas of Cherbourg is one of my favorites. If it had been in English, it might have made my list.

My Fair Lady is one of my favorite musicals. It was pretty much a lock for my list from the first day I started compiling my list. It was #13 on my list.

I've seen Grease many times over the years, and I think it's a very good movie with some great songs. But over the years, it has lost a bit of its appeal. I still watch it if I'm flipping channels and it's on, but I rarely go out of my way to watch it anymore. I love Olivia Newton-John, but of her movies, I would rather have seen Xanadu make the Top Ten than Grease.

For the near misses, I considered Hearts Beat Loud, Holiday Inn, and The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh for my list, but none of them made my final list.

My list so far:
2. The Music Man (1962)
5. Oklahoma! (1955)
9. 1776 (1972)
12. The Greatest Showman (2017)
13. My Fair Lady (1964)
15. Les Misérables (2012)
16. Oliver! (1968)
17. Anastasia (1997)
18. Yankee Doodle Dandy (1942)
24. Fiddler on the Roof (1971)
25. Frozen (2013)

iluv2viddyfilms

11-20-24, 01:33 AM

The Nightmare Before Christmas is one of those movies that I can't decide how I feel about it. I love the music, but I kind of go back and forth on if I like the movie or not. I debated including it on my list because of the music, but after rewatching it for this countdown, it missed my list. But I'm glad to see it made the countdown. In fact, this time of the year, the song "What's this?" is my ringtone.

When I was in college, I saw The Rocky Horror Picture Show in the theater with the audience participation more times than I can count because that's where all my friends were every Friday and Saturday night. I hated it the first time I saw it, but after seeing it so many times, now I only dislike it. But I have to admit that some of the songs are kind of fun. I'm not surprised that it made it his high on the countdown, but I'm just glad that it didn't take the #1 spot.

I was a bit late getting around to watching La La Land, so by the time I saw it, I had heard so much about it that my expectations were sky high, and I don't think it was possible for it to meet those expectations. That's probably the reason why it didn't make my list. I like the movie, but I don't love it as much as I thought I would. It's a great throwback to the classic musicals, but it just doesn't live up to them for me.

I love Disney's Beauty and the Beast, and I strongly considered it for my list, but I just couldn't find room for it on my list. It was one of several animated movies that I considered for my #25 spot, but it lost out to a different Disney movie. I'm thrilled to see it made it this high on the countdown.

My Fair Lady is one of my favorite musicals. It was pretty much a lock for my list from the first day I started compiling my list. It was #13 on my list.

My list so far:
2. The Music Man (1962)
5. Oklahoma! (1955)
9. 1776 (1972)
12. The Greatest Showman (2017)
13. My Fair Lady (1964)
15. Les Misérables (2012)
16. Oliver! (1968)
17. Anastasia (1997)
18. Yankee Doodle Dandy (1942)
24. Fiddler on the Roof (1971)
25. Frozen (2013)

Wow! That also sums up a lot of how I feel about those titles too. Beauty and the Beast and A Nightmare Before Christmas almost made my list and it wasn't so much that I didn't value them as reasons that they weren't included, it's more that I just couldn't remove any of the others I loved. As far as Rocky Horror Picture Show goes, I'm just kind of neutral toward it. It is a funny take on the whole Frankenstein bit, but it just never resonated with me the way it does with so many apparently.

Interesting too because I think you and I might be a couple of the only ones who voted for Yankee Doodle Dandy. It was my number 13. I'm surprised more people didn't vote for it. *edit* actually I guess nine people voted for it... out of 52? So that's not really too bad considering it is an older film.

PHOENIX74

11-20-24, 01:39 AM

9. Grease (1978) - Grease is one of those movies that I wasn't crazy about as a kid and young guy (didn't hate it, but didn't love it) but as time has gone by I seem to love the way it looks and sounds more and more. The songs are still catchy after all this time, and John Travolta was still an actual person and not the Scientology moon person he's turned into. I don't think Olivia Newton-John really delivered on the enormous promise she displayed in her early career (one of the few younger singing guests I've seen on The Dean Martin Variety Show), but talented she certainly was. Together they form an unbeatable pair of charismatic young superstars that power Grease into the stratosphere and have kept it a popular movie after the nearly 50 years that have passed since it came out. It's a step into a different era, with different values and expectations, but the music, singing and dancing are terrific. It ended up at #9 on my ballot - a perfect match with where it ended up on this countdown.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen : 63/92
I'd never even heard of : 11/92
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 18/92
Films from my list : 18 + 1

#9 - My #9 - Grease (1978)
#11 - My #12 - The Umbrellas of Cherbourg (1964)
#14 - My #3 - The Rocky Horror Picture Show (1975)
#15 - My #4 - Hedwig and the Angry Inch (2001)
#20 - My #2 - Dancer in the Dark (2000)
#21 - My #10 - Chicago (2002)
#23 - My #15 - A Hard Day's Night (1964)
#24 - My #11 - Fiddler on the Roof (1971)
#28 - My #7 - Labyrinth (1986)
#37 - My #1 - Phantom of the Paradise (1974)
#41 - My #6 - Pink Floyd - The Wall (1982)
#44 - My #13 - Oliver! (1968)
#47 - My #14 - Hair (1979)
#59 - My #5 - Jesus Christ Superstar (1973)
#60 - My #23 - Annie (1982)
#72 - My #22 - Yellow Submarine (1968)
#92 - My #8 - Tommy (1975)
One-pointer - My #25 - Shock Treatment (1981)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
#108 - My #16 - Evita (1996)

gbgoodies

11-20-24, 02:12 AM

Wow! That also sums up a lot of how I feel about those titles too. Beauty and the Beast and A Nightmare Before Christmas almost made my list and it wasn't so much that I didn't value you them that they weren't included, it's more that I just couldn't remove any of the others I loved. As far as Rocky Horror Picture Show goes, I'm just kind of neutral toward it. It is a funny take on the whole Frankenstein bit, but it just never resonated with me the way it does with so many apparently.

Interesting too because I think you and I might be a couple of the only ones who voted for Yankee Doodle Dandy. It was my number 13. I'm surprised more people didn't vote for it. *edit* actually I guess nine people voted for it... out of 52? So that's not really too bad considering it is an older film.

I'm just glad to see that so many of the classic musicals made the countdown. When the discussion about having a musicals countdown started several years ago, so many people were against it that I was afraid that by the time we had this countdown, it would be filled with movies that I had never heard of or movies that I hated. I like that there's a nice mix of classic musicals and some more modern movies.

But I'm surprised at some of the classic musicals that missed the countdown considering that the Near Misses only got around 30 to 35 votes. In addition to the movies that have already been mentioned (Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and Guys and Dolls), I would have liked to see Brigadoon, Bye Bye Birdie, Carousel, Annie Get Your Gun, Damn Yankees, The Pajama Game, Tea for Two, Bells Are Ringing, Robin and the 7 Hoods, and so many more make it. Even some more recent musicals like Xanadu and Mamma Mia! are surprising to see not make the countdown.

But there are just too many great musical movies, and not enough room for all of them, so there were bound to be some surprising misses.

WHITBISSELL!

11-20-24, 02:38 AM

Never seen Grease. Big blind spot for me.Same here. Have had plenty of chances and watched snippets over the years but had no real drive to sit down and watch the whole thing.

iluv2viddyfilms

11-20-24, 03:00 AM

Brigadoon

But there are just too many great musical movies, and not enough room for all of them, so there were bound to be some surprising misses.

Three Gene Kelly musicals are on my top 25 list, so I just didn't have room for Brigadoon which is a musical I like a lot even though I think it's generally considered a "mid" musical by musical aficionados. To read the premise of Brigadoon on paper, it comes across as beyond preposterous - like something that would just get laughed out of the writing room, but it somehow just works so well.

An American in Paris is one that made my list which has already appeared... far too low, or is it high, in this countdown. Another of my Gene Kelly picks will definitely make the top three on this list... I know, it's a big secret. And the third Gene Kelly musical that I picked is my personal favorite of his, but it's largely forgotten today, however it's in my top 100 films of all time list.

iluv2viddyfilms

11-20-24, 03:05 AM

Same here. Have had plenty of chances and watched snippets over the years but had no real drive to sit down and watch the whole thing.

That's OK. By not watching it (Grease), you'll just save yourself a trip to the hardware store:

https://pedros.com/cdn/shop/products/Pedro_s_6221281_Degreaser_13_1gal-1_600x.jpg?v=1649365719

https://shop.rightlook.com/cdn/shop/products/rightlook_engine_degreaser_dc1540-g_900x900_5384e7e6-7567-4640-8b1e-4b5be99b1763_1200x1200.png?v=1548205039

gbgoodies

11-20-24, 03:16 AM

Three Gene Kelly musicals are on my top 25 list, so I just didn't have room for Brigadoon which is a musical I like a lot even though I think it's generally considered a "mid" musical by musical aficionados. To read the premise of Brigadoon on paper, it comes across as beyond preposterous - like something that would just get laughed out of the writing room, but it somehow just works so well.

An American in Paris is one that made my list which has already appeared... far too low, or is it high, in this countdown. Another of my Gene Kelly picks will definitely make the top three on this list... I know, it's a big secret. And the third Gene Kelly musical that I picked is my personal favorite of his, but it's largely forgotten today, however it's in my top 100 films of all time list.

Now I'm curious what movie is your personal favorite of his. There were several Gene Kelly musicals that I was considering for my list, but I ended up with only three of his movies on my list, but only two were classic musicals. I had to leave off some favorites including the underrated movies For Me and My Gal and It's Always Fair Weather.

iluv2viddyfilms

11-20-24, 03:33 AM

Now I'm curious what movie is your personal favorite of his. There were several Gene Kelly musicals that I was considering for my list, but I ended up with only three of his movies on my list, but only two were classic musicals. I had to leave off some favorites including the underrated movies For Me and My Gal and It's Always Fair Weather.

I liked For Me and My Gal, a lot, but it doesn't have that exuberant flair and colorful world of his Judy Garland pairings with Vincente Minnelli. It's Always Fair Weather has a really cool premise and I like it a lot despite it being far more downbeat than most Kelly musicals. It does have what is one of my top five Gene Kelly numbers and dance scenes, the one where he's on roller skates singing "I Like Myself." But I won't quite reveal my personal favorite of his... yet, not until we're done with the countdown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hs6iXpInTA

gbgoodies

11-20-24, 03:43 AM

I liked For Me and My Gal, a lot, but it doesn't have that exuberant flair and colorful world of his Judy Garland pairings with Vincente Minnelli. It's Always Fair Weather has a really cool premise and I like it a lot despite it being far more downbeat than most Kelly musicals. It does have what is one of my top five Gene Kelly numbers and dance scenes, the one where he's on roller skates singing "I Like Myself." But I won't quite reveal my personal favorite of his... yet, not until we're done with the countdown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hs6iXpInTA

I can barely even stand on roller skates without falling down, so it's even more impressive to me that he can dance on them.

I'm looking forward to your reveal.

Thief

11-20-24, 08:58 AM

The 31 point gap between My Fair Lady (#10) and Grease (#9) is the biggest of the countdown so far. The next ones are:

26 points between Fiddler on te Roof (#24) and A Hard Day's Night (#23)
15 points between Hedwig and the Angry Inch (#15) and The Rocky Horror Picture Show (#14)
11 points between A Hard Day's Night (#23) and Aladdin (#22)

The rest of the countdown has been separated by single digits so far.

Hey Fredrick

11-20-24, 09:23 AM

Looks like everything in my top 10 will make the list. That's not too surprising.

My number 4 was My Fair Lady. A three hour musical is not something I generally feel like sitting down to watch but Audrey makes almost anything watchable and when it was all said and done it didn't feel like a three hour movie. The highlight of the film is the scene at the racetrack which had me rolling.

I had Beauty and the Beast at number 2. It's the perfect Disney musical for me and Belle is my fav Disney "princess". There's a little fire in her. I first saw this at a time when I was too cool to watch an animated, musical, love story so I kept my enjoyment of it hidden. It's funny, dark (at times), the songs are some of Disneys best, Gaston is truly primeval ("Thank you, Belle") and I remember being blown away by the animation from the very start. It was an incredible leap from what Disney had been producing at the time. It's possible that I've seen this more than any other movie, ever.

And Grease was my number 3. From start to finish it's quite possibly the most fun movie on my ballot. Both leads are great, the big dance off middle is fabulous and the ending...SANDY!?! The snapping of the umpires mask still makes me laugh every time I see it, probably because I wish I could have done that a few times in my life. Usually there's a song or two that I feel doesn't work or slows the movie down but I don't get any of that from the songs in Grease.

1. Yes
2. Beauty and the Beast (1991) # 12
3. Grease (1978) #9
4. My Fair Lady (1964) # 10
5. Yes
6. Chicago (2002) #21
7. Aladdin (1993) #22
8. Moulin Rouge #30
9. South Park #27
11. Pink Floyd The Wall #41
12. The Music Man #29
13. Nope - A little surprised that it didn't make it.
14. Top Hat #58
15. 42nd Street #76
16. The Band Wagon #80
17. I've seen it mentioned but sadly nope.
18. No
19. The Rocky Horror Picture Show #14
20. Yes
21. Meet Me in St. Louis #33
24. Hair #47
25. The Forbidden Zone (one pointer)

Thief

11-20-24, 09:26 AM

As far as the Rotten Tomatoes score, it has been split the following way:

88 entries have a "Fresh" score (above 60%).
11 of those are what they call "Certified Fresh" (a score above 75%).
Only 3 entries have a "Rotten" score (below 60%)
There's one entry with no RT score, for not having enough reviews listed (The Burden at #83)

All this means that, with the exception of those three (3) "Rotten" films, all the others have had a primarily favorable reception among critics.

Omnizoa

11-20-24, 10:29 AM

Seen Grease, don't remember it. Should probably rewatch it.

Holden Pike

11-20-24, 10:55 AM

If you were alive and aware in 1978 you know Grease was a full-on phenomenon. Seemingly everybody over the age of six had the album. Five of the singles charted: Frankie Valli’s title track and the duet “You’re the One That I Want” both went to #1, “Hopelessly Devoted to You” hit #3, “Summer Nights” #5, and "Greased Lightning" #47 on the Billboard Hot 100. The music was absolutely everywhere, to the point where it took over popular culture for a bit. On the heels of 1977’s Saturday Night Fever, Travolta had a second cultural moment in a row. Olivia Newton-John went from a best-selling musical artist to a movie star, overnight. Even the retro novelty act Sha Na Na, who appeared in a cameo in Grease as the band at the dance off, had a variety show on the air. Between "Happy Days" and Grease, the 1950s and early '60s were back! Why?!? I dunno?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac97Acq8GFI

I have seen Grease dozens of times, thanks to it being on cable seemingly non-stop. Probably seen Grease 2 nearly as much, and that one has a C-O-O-L rider and Michelle Pfeiffer! But I didn’t make room for either on my ballot. Instead, I went with another from that era that, while not an objectively top-flight production, has imprinted deeply upon me all the same. "Come take my hand...."

102683
Xanadu (1980) is a cheesy ball of neon nonsense that, for some reason, I have found myself drawn to since I was ten. The tale of a frustrated artist who is inspired by the physical embodiment one of Zeus’ nine Muses to build a rollerdisco is beyond absurd. Rollerdisco as a minor fad was already done before the prints of this flick were even dry. That they dragged living legend Gene Kelly into the proceedings in an attempt class up the joint and legitimize it all is a tad desperate. And shoehorning in an animated sequence by Don Bluth to give it a Disneyesque moment for the kids, I guess? I am sure Universal hoped this hodgepodge would appeal to a broad audience, but of course it appealed to just about no one. It was an infamous flop, save for its soundtrack that had hits for Olivia Newton-John and the Electric Light Orchestra. Legend even has it that a double-bill of Xanadu and another infamous disco flop Can’t Stop the Music at a second-run Los Angeles dollar theater is what spawned the Golden Raspberry Awards. For the record, Xanadu was nominated for six of those initial Razzie Awards but only “won” Worst Director for Robert Greenwald (who actually had some impressive names in his category, including Brian De Palma for Dressed to Kill, John Avildsen for The Formula, William Friedkin for Cruising, and even Stanley Kubrick for The Shining).

But in spite of all of that, or maybe even because of it, Xanadu slowly but surely became a cult movie. Some enjoyed it through a so-bad-it’s-good prism, others just plain liked it. I am in that latter camp. Part of it is I have a thing for Olivia. No apologies or regrets there! And I love the music, especially the songs “Magic”, “The Fall”, “Don’t Walk Away”, and “Suddenly”. I know Xanadu is ridiculous, but it has a strain of earnestness and fun underneath the neon and studio pandering that is, ultimately, charming. At least to this fella.

I had the place where nobody dared to go and the love that we came to know - they called it Xanadu - at number sixteen, ten of my precious points sacrificed to the gods of Mount Olympus by way of a mural on the Venice Beach Boardwalk.

HOLDEN’S BALLOT
2. La La Land (#13)
3. Pennies from Heaven (#56)
4. Dancer in the Dark (#20)
5. A Hard Day’s Night (#23)
6. The Blues Brothers (#19)
7. That Thing You Do! (#31)
8. The Umbrellas of Cherbourg (#11)
10. The Commitments (#107)
11. This is Spın̈al Tap (#55)
12. Hearts Beat Loud (#101)
13. A Star is Born (#43)
14. Hair (#47)
15. Sing Street (#40)
16. Xanadu (#DNP)
17. Amadeus (#97)
18. Once (#25)
21. Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (#69)
22. Little Shop of Horrors (#18)
24. My Fair Lady (#10)
25. Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story (#74)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3nuh0Oul0U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrp-4dqHECM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWvwEtqAjyY

Wooley

11-20-24, 04:34 PM

Funny thing about Xanadu is that every time I watch it I remind myself, "This is legitimately terrible and you should never watch it again, not even when that creeping urge or doubt comes prowlin' around, it is simply bad, do not do it."
Very clear statement to myself.
Which I completely ignore about once every 8-10 years.

Thursday Next

11-20-24, 04:37 PM

23lists272pointsMary Poppins (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/433-mary-poppins.html)Director
Robert Stevenson, 1964

Starring
Julie Andrews, Dick Van Dyke, David Tomlinson, Glynis Johns

Thursday Next

11-20-24, 04:37 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZNRzc3hWvE

Thursday Next

11-20-24, 04:40 PM

I was genuinely surprised Mary Poppins made it this high. I like it, but it didn't make my top 25. It was on a whopping 23 lists, though, which is the most so far and in fact the most until the top 4.

Miss Vicky

11-20-24, 04:41 PM

I think I liked Mary Poppins okay when I was a kid, but I rewatched it for the countdown and thought it was annoying.

Holden Pike

11-20-24, 04:42 PM

102721

Mary Poppins was #49 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1960s.

Allaby

11-20-24, 04:42 PM

Mary Poppins is fun with some wonderful songs, but didn't quite make my ballot.

Seen: 91/93

Citizen Rules

11-20-24, 04:48 PM

I like Mary Poppins she's quite feisty, but not a fan of the animated/live dancing with penguin stuff.

Thief

11-20-24, 04:53 PM

It's really been years since I last saw Mary Poppins. However, it was one of those (along with The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh and several others) that we listened to often cause we had the Disney LP. Then when video rental stores came to be, we rented it often and saw it often. But even though it's been a while, the songs have always stuck with me. Maybe if I had revisited it would've fared better, but on the strength of its music and what little I remember, I had it at #19.

Here's where I stand...

SEEN: 33/93
MY BALLOT: 15/25

1. Moulin Rouge! (#30)
2. Little Shop of Horrors (#18)
3.
4. Once (#25)
5. La La Land (#13)
6. Aladdin (#22)
7. An American in Paris (#42)
8.
9. Cabin in the Sky (#103)
10. The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh (#110)
11.
12. Inside Llewyn Davis (#53)
13. Moana (#68)
14. Sing Street (#40)
15.
16. My Fair Lady (#10)
17. Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street (#66)
18. Chicago (#21)
19. Mary Poppins (#8)
20.
21. The Band Wagon (#80)
22.
23.
24.
25. Hallelujah (One-pointer)

MovieMeditation

11-20-24, 04:57 PM

Mary Poppins is one of my “bigger” misses in terms of movies I haven’t seen.

John W Constantine

11-20-24, 05:10 PM

Thought I had this sewn up (at least the top20 project (more on that later)) but yeah forgot I hadn't seen this one. I probably prefer Shary Bobbins by quite a distance though.

Holden Pike

11-20-24, 05:27 PM

I didn’t have Poppins nor any straight Disney flicks on my list. Though since The Jim Henson Company was eventually sold to The House of Mouse, I suppose latter Muppet projects are, technically, under the ever-growing “Disney” umbrella.

102732
Three Jim Henson projects wound up making the Top 100: the OG The Muppet Movie (#45), A Muppet Christmas Carol (#52), and Labyrinth (#28). I had a more manly Muppet flick on my ballot, one that pays loving homage to the Henson legacy while updating the sensibilities a bit. 2011’s The Muppets was an extremely happy surprise for this cinemaniac. I am definitely of the original ”Sesame Street” generation, that program having debuted on PBS just six months before I was born. I was aged six to eleven for the original broadcast of ”The Muppet Show”, and nine for the first movie. Liked it all, loved ”The Muppet Show’, and as I aged out of the hardcore target audience I still enjoyed the subsequent Muppet movies. Absolutely hated The Dark Crystal and was a bit old to care about Labyrinth, but I still went to all the feature films baring the Muppet name (Caper, Take Manhattan, Christmas Carol, Treasure Island, and Muppets from Space) and even enjoyed the all-too brief ”Muppets Tonight” 1990s primetime television reboot. My favorite Muppet project past the original TV show and first few movies was probably the Muppet Vision 3D at Disney World.

Which is all to say that though I dutifully kept up with them, I initially went into The Muppets (2011) mostly out of nostalgia and because I love Jason Segel and Amy Adams. But I was instantly blown away by the energy, humor, and the angle taken by Segel & Nicholas Stoller (Forgetting Sarah Marshall). Just the right mix of modern edge and homage, but always defaulting to a clear and obvious irony-free love for the world Henson and company created. As a Musical, the songs were fantastic, especially “Man or Muppet”, written by Bret McKenzie (Flight of the Conchords), which eventually won the Oscar for Best Original Song! From Chris Cooper's heavy ("Maniacal laugh. Maniacal laugh.") onward, the deadpan humor and genuine joy in reuniting with these characters worked perfectly for this crusty old fart.

Though I knew it had little chance of making the list when stacked up against the original Muppet flicks, I adore it way too much not to have included it on my ballot. I had it at number nineteen, good for a lucky seven points.

HOLDEN’S BALLOT
2. La La Land (#13)
3. Pennies from Heaven (#56)
4. Dancer in the Dark (#20)
5. A Hard Day’s Night (#23)
6. The Blues Brothers (#19)
7. That Thing You Do! (#31)
8. The Umbrellas of Cherbourg (#11)
10. The Commitments (#107)
11. This is Spın̈al Tap (#55)
12. Hearts Beat Loud (#101)
13. A Star is Born (#43)
14. Hair (#47)
15. Sing Street (#40)
16. Xanadu (#DNP)
17. Amadeus (#97)
18. Once (#25)
19. The Muppets (#DNP)
21. Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (#69)
22. Little Shop of Horrors (#18)
24. My Fair Lady (#10)
25. Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story (#74)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRYHYiNoVrI&pp=ygUPI3RoZW11cHBldHMyMDEx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwfukDDs9N4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4YhbpuGdwQ
https://youtu.be/CjKZ22V3GW0?si=mvn4E78qR-FvcBVa

kgaard

11-20-24, 05:58 PM

Yep, Mary Poppins was my #10. No notes.

mrblond

11-20-24, 06:10 PM

#8. Mary Poppins (1964) was my #3.

When it is about classic musicals, this title is the first that emerges in my mind. I've seen the entire movie two or three times and some segments many more times.
Julie Andrews is so attractive and sweet, I can't imagine she can be skipped.

102735
-----

My Ballot
▽
1. All That Jazz (1979) [#17]
2. Pink Floyd - The Wall (1982) [#41]
3. Mary Poppins (1964) [#8]
4.
5. Everyone Says I Love You (1996) [#73]
6.
7. Monty Python's The Meaning of Life (1983) [#99]
8.
9. Amadeus (1984) [#97]
10. Hair (1979) [#47]
11.
12. Jesus Christ Superstar (1973) [#59]
13. Dancer in the Dark (2000) [#20]
14. The Muppet Movie (1979) [#45]
15.
16. Rocketman (2019) [#91]
17.
18. Oliver! (1968) [#44]
...
21. La La Land (2016) [#13]
...
25. The Gypsy Camp Vanishes Into the Blue (1975) [one pointer]

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/9rfMZtBy6cJbkWR2rY8CxLZZd3S.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/jshxdvf8A7oQqBAH3GFwXRwDyCX.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/ei8hhYCMfURfPOXKBnyl61be2iV.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/Mn1eql8AHHo2MTiwF7VwiHfoOu.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/81Po3VN1Bc0xNeTULKTUUlpq7ur.jpg

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/tsqcwBp1jYZdcceXXoVEby0dZkt.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/qrZIlVCL9UyEBsgOGbisNzuWjX.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/vFgAKNdJdQp4LExhwSqFYxPa4XT.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/tjWa4JBdxomtoojZr7dPIgJZgiX.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/g4xw8UUdpvmMg0kKbhD1dJvHqDH.jpg

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/f4FF18ia7yTvHf2izNrHqBmgH8U.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/1PdONz8NKpEVRJU9Lkcmg7F8aAQ.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/q0dsNZOuSKzAdZod9ohPXJ4GQUs.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/1AIhyecxthQuvJNvPC4cKxTxCRp.jpg

-----

Little Ash

11-20-24, 06:44 PM

I haven't seen Mary Poppins since I was a youngster, I think. I completely forgot about its existence for this countdown until I saw people predicting the top 10 (I think). I doubt it would have filled out my ballot though. The Supercaliflatuous song is catchy for its existence, but other than that and the act of war that Brits claim Dick van Dyke's cockney accent is, I'm okay with how little space it occupies in my mind.

I think it's safe to say, musicals still just aren't my genre; as much as musicals can be considered a genre.

WHITBISSELL!

11-20-24, 06:57 PM

Mary Poppins was my #12 pick.

https://i.imgur.com/K7jHHEp.gif

cricket

11-20-24, 07:04 PM

I can't remember a single thing about Mary Poppins but I'm sure I didn't like it.

Torgo

11-20-24, 07:16 PM

Mary Poppins is #14 on my list. Not much else to say other than Dick Van Dyke's over the top Cockney accent is more feature than bug. Oh, and "Step in Time" is one of the greatest dance sequences in film of all...time.

iluv2viddyfilms

11-20-24, 07:45 PM

Mary Poppins is a thoroughly enjoyable and wonderful film and musical, but in my mind it's something that I enjoyed more as a child than I do as an adult. It doesn't nearly hit me on the same levels as many of the other musicals on this list do and it's a joyous outing and great fun, but it's one of those movies that I relegate to the category of films that will always hold value because of their role in our childhood, but one that doesn't transcend into the same level of meaning or power as an adult. In looking at it through the lens of an adult it just doesn't hold up for me. I imagine if I had children, that it could be a different story. I rank it up there with another wonderful children's film from the era which also incorporated animation into live action and featured actor David Tomlinson, Bedknobs and Broomsticks.

But Mary Poppins doesn't quite have that universal timeless appeal for me that something like The Wizard of Oz does.

Interestingly enough I thought Audrey Hepburn gave a much much stronger performance in My Fair Lady, and really Audrey should have been nominated for an Academy Award which was discussed earlier in this thread. However, and while I have never found Julie Andrews to be a draw at all, I did love her in another 1964 film, The Americanization of Emily, which could be a film worthy of a best actress award. So why Julie Andrews was nominated and won for a very solid, but nothing remarkable performance in Mary Poppins, when she was truly great in An Americanization of Emily, I have no idea. Not that I really care a lot or put credence into industry self-celebratory and self-pat on the back elitist awards shows like the Academy Awards, but I imagine it was for "political" reasons that she won for Mary Poppins.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/590697e7d1758ec4d7669624/591f57e5f7d1ff3b35243820/591f5959f7d1ff3b3524660b/1495226713097/TAOE-6e8.jpg?format=original

SpelingError

11-20-24, 08:05 PM

Mary Poppins was #18 on my ballot, but looking back, I feel it should've been higher. Glad it still made the top 10 though.

SpelingError

11-20-24, 08:06 PM

1. All That Jazz
2. Dancer in the Dark
4. The Burden
6. Inside Llewyn Davis
7. The Young Girls of Rochefort
8. Top Hat
12. Duck Soup
15. My Fair Lady
16. Meet Me in St. Louis
17. The Music Man
18. Mary Poppins
20. The Nightmare Before Christmas
22. The Rocky Horror Picture Show

Wooley

11-20-24, 08:08 PM

Little Ash

11-20-24, 08:42 PM

Interestingly (to myself only I'm sure) I don't exactly like Mary Poppins, per se, like I don't actually want to, ya know, watch it... so that knocked it all the way down to No.17 on my list. Because it's an awfully good musical that I cannot deny even though it's not for me, personally.

If someone said, hey, I'm doing a movie night of watching Mary Poppins, would you go over and watch Mary Poppins? Asking because one of the vetting questions I had for any movie I put on my ballot was some phrasing of, "would I watch this movie now?"

John W Constantine

11-20-24, 08:51 PM

I'm watching Mary Poppins in a little bit. It's probably what I need after Grizzly Man.

Wooley

11-20-24, 09:02 PM

If someone said, hey, I'm doing a movie night of watching Mary Poppins, would you go over and watch Mary Poppins? Asking because one of the vetting questions I had for any movie I put on my ballot was some phrasing of, "would I watch this movie now?"

Ya know... in that context, yeah, I would. I really appreciate what they did. Ya know I mean like, using an Ebertesque criteria, while children's movies aren't really my jam, I think they really really excelled at making what they were trying to make and I'm always down to appreciate something like that.

Omnizoa

11-20-24, 09:27 PM

I'm genuinely surprised Mary Poppins is this high up. Granted, I haven't seen it since the first half of my life and I still vaguely remember a couple things, like "A Spoonful of Sugar" and... whatever the chimney sweep song was, but...

I dunno, I didn't think it was terribly popular. I've seen people talk a lot more about movies much farther down this list.

John W Constantine

11-21-24, 12:06 AM

It was not what I needed.

stillmellow

11-21-24, 02:18 AM

It was not what I needed.

Try Paddington 2?

gbgoodies

11-21-24, 02:46 AM

I had a hard time fitting Mary Poppins on my list, but it's been one of my favorite musicals ever since I was a little kid, so I just couldn't imagine not including it. In my opinion, Julie Andrews has one of the best voices ever, (Yes, even better than Whitney Houston), and Dick Van Dyke is one of my all-time favorite actors, especially when he sings and dances. (And no, his Cockney accent didn't bother me at all.) The movie landed at #22 on my list, but it probably should have been higher.

My list so far:
2. The Music Man (1962)
5. Oklahoma! (1955)
9. 1776 (1972)
12. The Greatest Showman (2017)
13. My Fair Lady (1964)
15. Les Misérables (2012)
16. Oliver! (1968)
17. Anastasia (1997)
18. Yankee Doodle Dandy (1942)
22. Mary Poppins (1964)
24. Fiddler on the Roof (1971)
25. Frozen (2013)

PHOENIX74

11-21-24, 03:12 AM

8. Mary Poppins (1964) - I briefly considered Mary Poppins for my ballot because it is quite good, and as such it made my shortlist - but I had so many other much-loved musicals I was desperate to help make the grade that it ended up getting squeezed out. Brilliant craftmanship and moviemaking - and now we have Saving Mr. Banks, don't we? It's become such a cultural landmark that we're making movies about the making of that movie. Or at least, it's origins, inspiration and difficult inception. It's a movie I make fun of quite often, but not without a nod to how damn perfect it is in what it wants to be. In any event - I knew it was going to be here, up in the top 10 somewhere. I don't think I saw it for the first time until I was in my 30s though - when I was a little kid my parents were taking me to see movies like Jaws and The Shining, and they never bothered with Disney classics, possibly because they wanted to see horror movies instead. In the meantime, movies like Mary Poppins were being rereleased. I wonder if all of that influenced my taste in movies down the track. Anyway, I expect Disney is set to dominate the rest of this countdown.

Seen : 64/93

dadgumblah

11-21-24, 04:03 AM

Love me some Mary Poppins! It was #17 on my list. Julie Andrews was so beautiful and sweet in this. Dick Van Dyke, whose eponymous television show is still one of my all-time favorites was great too, bad Cockney accent and all (which totally did not bother me). We also have the ever-stuffy David Tomlinson as Mr. Banks, and the wonderful Glynis Johns as Mrs. Banks. The supporting cast is stuffed full of well-known actors but I must give special mention to the adorable Banks children, played by Karen Dotrice (who was in several Disney live-action films) and the late Matthew Garber (who sadly died of an illness at the young age of 21). They both appeared together in the previous year's The Three Lives of Thomasina as friends, but they play brother and sister here and are great. I used to not like movies where real-life characters act alongside animated ones, but this one movie really softened me on that stance. It's just pure, magical fun.

For those who didn't vote for Mary Poppins, maybe you'd like this version better?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T5_0AGdFic

#1. On the Town #93 (list proper)
#2. Holiday Inn #109 (NEAR MISS)
#5. The Blues Brothers #19 (list proper)
#6. Easter Parade #78 (list proper)
#7. Grease #9 (list proper)
#8. Meet Me in St. Louis #33 (list proper)
#9 Yankee Doodle Dandy #32 (list proper)
#10. Gigi #85 (list proper)
#12. Calamity Jane #84 (list proper)
#14. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers #71 (list proper)
#17. Mary Poppins #8 (list proper)
#18. The Muppet Movie #45 (list proper)
#25. Neptune's Daughter (one-pointer)

MovieFan1988

11-21-24, 06:11 AM

Mary Poppins was my #12 pick.

https://i.imgur.com/K7jHHEp.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os9J0QXo2AE

I crack up every time I hear this :laugh::laugh:

honeykid

11-21-24, 10:03 AM

I love The Wicker Man it just never would have occurred to me in my wildest dreams that it would be thought of as a Musical?

I'd agree, until I realised that it might given the standards. Looking at it, it actually passes the count easily.

I'll just assume Top Secret! is #1 and we all did the right thing.

I did think about it, but chose not to. :D

*cough*
#11 of 18. on my ballot.

Well, you ruined what will probably be the only time I play the game, but I'm probably even more delighted that someone else saw it and that you spoke about it so well too. I'm not one for the conventions of musicals beyond bursting out into song and it almost always being a bad thing (which it is for the most part in The Wicker Man, too. Bloody folk music!) , so I'd not noticed that at all. Thank you. :)

I have never seen Grease.
I've never had any strong desire to.
Also have never seen Saturday Night Fever, though I've heard, contrary to the pop-culture image of it, that one is actually a fairly downer drama about a pathetic loser, so it'd probably be more up my alley.
It's definitely a surprise to anyone who goes into it thinking "disco musical". I probably know as many who liked it thinking it'd be that as were horrified by it thinking it'd be that. :D

Now try and imagine for those of us older than you how silly it is seeing somebody we first knew as a sitcom character and singing/dancing movie star who is supposed to be taken seriously in a John Woo flick.
Absolutely. It's James from 'Look Who's Talking' for crying out loud! How and why am I scared of him? :D

Between "Happy Days" and Grease, the 1950s and early '60s were back! Why?!? I dunno?

Sure you do, HP, it was nostalgia. It might be the first case of national/global nostalgia to be that encompassing? As you say, there was Happy Days and Grease. American Graffiti had already shown the amount of money and interest. I don't know about the US, I know there were The Ramones, but in the UK there was a revival of the teddy boys in both music and fashion and Ska. Even punk music was 'going back' to the 3 minute songs of the 50's and early 60's as a revolt against the prog rock/hippy 10 minute album tracks where you had to be a skilled musician with a masters in Music or something. Punk rock hit back with a ramped up rock n roll sound and a DIY attitude for the 70's summed up by the fanzine cover which featured a diagram of guitar chords with the words "Here's a chord. Here's another. Here's another. Now form a band."

From this the nostalgia boys made and hit huge success with Star Wars and Raiders of The Lost Ark and once the money men noticed, that was the start of where we are today.

I saw Mary Poppins when I was a kid (which is probably when I saw most/all of these Disney musical stuff) and hated it. I can't stand Julie Andrews either, so that doesn't help and I hate the one of hers which will be along fairly soon even more (just in case I'm not here to slag it off when it appears :D )

I had Grease at #17. I've not seen it since I was about 13/14 and it was annoying me then (though that was mostly because my sister loved it and watched it ALL THE BLOODY TIME!!!) but it does have a couple of really good songs (the title track being the best of them) so, for that alone, it would be on my list. Also, as Holden Pike said, if you were there during the summer of '78, the soundtrack of this film was everywhere. I think Summer Nights was #1 here for 7 weeks or something like that? But a number of them were top 5 hits and I can remember singing along to Summer Nights as a 5 year old with my 3 year old sister much to my mothers pain and delight. Would I like it now? I honestly don't know, but I'm sure it'd still be instantly familiar in both sight and sound.

One more thing to note about Grease is that, in the original musical, the characters are arriving at a 10th Class Reunion. Now, as it's quite the custom for US to have mid 20's playing teens, I don't know if that played into the casting here or if they are actually paying heed to that but didn't bother with showing that happening. I don't think so, but it is something worth noting. Were that the case, Travolta would actually be a little too young. :D

As HP has just mentioned it, I'll also mention that I had Xanadu a place above it at #16. I don't know how much I like it, but it's aggressively 70's (I know it's released 1980 but look at it) and Xanadu is genuinely one of my favourite songs. I came to it quite late though, so part of my problem with it is having Swan looking and moving like that. I just can't take it seriously. But then, who can?

Holden Pike

11-21-24, 10:25 AM

Sure you do, HP, it was nostalgia. It might be the first case of national/global nostalgia to be that encompassing?
Sorry, I knew that was too obscure a reference. "Why?" with the response "I dunno" was a catchphrase from the Sha Na Na variety show.

Too deep an album cut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ee0ejLzbcA

Holden Pike

11-21-24, 10:42 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXuPjFHSH_E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b71ZOTdLKUI

Wooley

11-21-24, 11:39 AM

Sorry, I knew that was too obscure a reference. "Why?" with the response "I dunno" was a catchphrase from the Sha Na Na variety show.

Too deep an album cut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ee0ejLzbcA

You probably already know this but Sha Na Na's path to fame was paved by none other than... Jimi Hendrix

SpelingError

11-21-24, 03:51 PM

Interestingly (to myself only I'm sure) I don't exactly like Mary Poppins, per se, like I don't actually want to, ya know, watch it... so that knocked it all the way down to No.17 on my list. Because it's an awfully good musical that I cannot deny even though it's not for me, personally.

I feel the same way towards family films, but I have a soft spot for that one. Its high quality is too hard to ignore.

Thief

11-21-24, 04:26 PM

The way that this song stuck in my head when I was a kid...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZNRzc3hWvE

Thursday Next

11-21-24, 04:47 PM

18lists281pointsCabaret (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/10784-cabaret.html)Director
Bob Fosse, 1972

Starring
Liza Minnelli, Michael York, Helmut Griem, Joel Grey

Thursday Next

11-21-24, 04:47 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMTPXen99n0

Thursday Next

11-21-24, 04:53 PM

Miss Vicky

11-21-24, 04:54 PM

I watched Cabaret for the 70s Countdown. I vaguely remember not really caring for it and I didn't rewatch it for this countdown so it was never in consideration for my ballot.

Citizen Rules

11-21-24, 05:03 PM

Glad to see Cabaret make it this high. I had meant to rewatch it for my ballot but ran out of time.

MovieMeditation

11-21-24, 05:07 PM

My guesses…

1. Singin' in the Rain
2. The Wizard of Oz
3. The Lion King
4. The Sound of Music
5. Grease
6. Mary Poppins
7. Cabaret
8. Willy Wonka and the Chocolate*factory
9. West Side*Story (1961)
10. My Fair Lady
Two correct so far!

Anyway, I have not seen Cabaret. Not exactly sure if I have an interest in it outside of the fact that its reputation is seemingly great.

kgaard

11-21-24, 05:10 PM

Cabaret was a gimme, #5 on my ballot. Bit of a downer, but a great film.

Thief

11-21-24, 05:17 PM

Haven't seen Cabaret, so here's where I stand...

SEEN: 33/94
MY BALLOT: 15/25

1. Moulin Rouge! (#30)
2. Little Shop of Horrors (#18)
3.
4. Once (#25)
5. La La Land (#13)
6. Aladdin (#22)
7. An American in Paris (#42)
8.
9. Cabin in the Sky (#103)
10. The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh (#110)
11.
12. Inside Llewyn Davis (#53)
13. Moana (#68)
14. Sing Street (#40)
15.
16. My Fair Lady (#10)
17. Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street (#66)
18. Chicago (#21)
19. Mary Poppins (#8)
20.
21. The Band Wagon (#80)
22.
23.
24.
25. Hallelujah (One-pointer)

John W Constantine

11-21-24, 05:24 PM

Seen before, hadn't watched in a while, wasn't sure on eligibility, would have made a late ballot appearance. It's MoFo.

John W Constantine

11-21-24, 05:27 PM

The last six remaining...probably....

The Wizard of Oz, Singin' in the Rain, The Lion King, The Sound of Music, West Side Story, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory

MovieFan1988

11-21-24, 05:45 PM

The Sound of Music or Willy Wonka is coming up next, watch it will be Lion King next instead :D

kgaard

11-21-24, 06:00 PM

The way that this song stuck in my head when I was a kid...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZNRzc3hWvE

The reminds me of possibly the greatest headline in newspaper history--though it may be only of interest to football (soccer) fans:
https://www.ambaile.org.uk/cdn/highlife/previews/166/6c9e0b583b9c3a44429eb7f5942ede46/5/035120e7e8ae26c6e563f24411c5b942/49730.jpg

beelzebubble

11-21-24, 06:03 PM

I didn't have Mary Poppins on my list. I loved it as a kid.
Cabaret is definitely on my list. I wanted to be able to sing like Liza. My parents had the album which I listened to a lot.
Great movie! Not nearly as harrowing as the stage play which is quite different.

https://youtu.be/hBlB8RAJEEc?si=SVYLIeuAcUUzpaKd

Thief

11-21-24, 06:07 PM

The reminds me of possibly the greatest headline in newspaper history--though it may be only of interest to football (soccer) fans:
https://www.ambaile.org.uk/cdn/highlife/previews/166/6c9e0b583b9c3a44429eb7f5942ede46/5/035120e7e8ae26c6e563f24411c5b942/49730.jpg

I don't follow football but I like clever wordplay :up:

iluv2viddyfilms

11-21-24, 06:10 PM

Cabaret is a horrible film.

Liza Minnelli pales compared to her mother, Judy Garland. Michael York is a bore and Joel Grey just mugs for the camera too. Something else of note, Bob Fosse might be a great choreographer, but he can't direct. And what's with all the musical numbers, except for one, taking place on stage instead of bursting out into song like a real musical.

Geesh. What a silly, overrated film!

OK, OK,

Now with that nonsense and idiocy out of the way... No, Cabaret was my pick for the second best musical of all time, behind only My Fair Lady. It's brilliant and perfect and it was my wife and I's New Years Eve movie last year. I love it to death, so many great and wonderful things going on... take everything I said in the first part of this post where I was being flippant and reverse it! I'll do a proper write-up later, but Cabaret is a masterpiece in all sense of the word. It has held up sooo amazingly well over the years, and I wish I still had my review of it I wrote over 20 years ago from the long-defunct www.moviejustice.com, maybe I still do on an old hard drive or flash drive someplace before the whole cloud thing and google documents.

One other thing to note about Cabaret, it was in MoFo's own the late Mark F's top 10 list and certainly deserved that spot. As much as I loved to argue with him over the fish film and how that was truly overrated, we always went back to how we both agreed that Cabaret is a masterpiece and a one-of-a-kind film. The historical context among so many underlying themes in one of a whole laundry list of reasons why it's great. Glad to see it show in the top 10 even though I was hoping for a top five spot. Also for years if anyone asked me on my top three or five musicals, I would hesitate on the fifth, fourth, and even third spot and can go-back-and-forth a bit, but My Fair Lady has always been the top spot and Cabaret has always been in second and I find it impossible that it could ever change.

https://scenebygreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/0525-1.jpeg?w=825&h=510&crop=1

mrblond

11-21-24, 06:38 PM

I had Cabaret at #15 on my ballot.

I've seen it about three times or something, last time about 15 years ago, so it is a time for rewatch. Anyway, I couldn't skip it. Not so great as All That Jazz, in my view, but good enough.

Allaby

11-21-24, 06:44 PM

I've seen Cabaret, but was never a big fan.

Seen: 92/94

iluv2viddyfilms

11-21-24, 06:45 PM

The Sound of Music or Willy Wonka is coming up next, watch it will be Lion King next instead :D

I can only hope it (The Lion King) shows next.

If the Big Kitty Kat Di$ney, Mr, Sir, etc Elton John taking his Elton-ing up to level eleven, every 10, 11, 12, and 13 year old girl in 1994 "OMG it's JTT! JTT!!! OMG!"-ing King is number one taking the spot from either Judy Garland in The Wizard of Oz or Gene Kelly in Singin' in the Rain I'm going to vomit and die just a bit.

And I can only offer one real solution to handle a number one Lion King spot, watch it will be.

https://image.chewy.com/is/image/catalog/62345_MAIN._AC_SL600_V1502308263_.jpg

Little Ash

11-21-24, 06:49 PM

Time for my own 'shoulda been higher' moment! I was hoping Cabaret would crack the top 5 but it was just 15 points away.

Anyway, this was #1 on my ballot. It's not my favourite stage musical, but it is (just) my favourite musical film. It's a good balance of music and straight drama. It's got some particularly good dialogue ("You're about as fatale as an after dinner mint"), memorable characters, well acted (especially Liza Minelli's Sally Bowles), and a mood that goes from Weimar republic decadence to a chilling glimpse of the future in 'Tomorrow Belongs to Me'.

If we're applying the 'would I watch it right now' test, then yes, any day of the week.

This sounds a lot like what I would say. It was just a toss-up between Cabaret and All That Jazz being my #1 (apparently All That Jazz won that toss-up). I actually thought Cabaret would make the top five though (not on quality alone. It should have been, well, in the top 2 according to my ballot), but because there seems to be four voting contingencies: classic Hollywood musical, modern jukebox musicals, Disney musicals, non-traditional musicals, and this seemed like the obvious choice for the last one. It's just amazingly good as a movie, the musical numbers are clearly musical numbers, composed and framed as such. Narratively they're diegetic in the sense that all the musical numbers are performed in the real world in a way that people in the real world would perform them -most of them are in the night club, but then there are a lot of mix cuts between those and what's happening out in the real world, allowing them to act as both Greek chorus or scene setter, while clearly being a musical number.

And unlike All That Jazz, which I had to order the physical blu-ray to see, Cabaret is easily rentable on streaming services and won the Oscar for its year for best picture (over The Godfather), implying it's cultural imprint is... well, high. There seemed to be enough people in this countdown that preferred non-classic musicals they would have gone this way. Guess I was wrong on guessing how well it would do.

ETA: An error on my part has been brought to my attention. I should have written won Fossie best director over Coppola for The Godfather. Or possibly I meant it swept the Oscars, with a notable exception of Best Picture for The Godfather (8 Oscars for Cabaret compared to 2 or 3 for The Godfather. At least that's what the quick google search is telling me). The general point of the cultural footprint still holds.

Wooley

11-21-24, 07:19 PM

This is about where I expected to see Cabaret. It was No.8 on my list. It belongs in the Top-10 probably and it is. Good.
Now, The Lion King is gonna hurt not just because of my feelings about Disney Animated Musicals but because it was actually one of my least-liked Disney Animated Musicals. I endured it twice and I don't think I ever will again. But I am steeling myself for the inevitable.

MovieFan1988

11-21-24, 07:30 PM

I can only hope it (The Lion King) shows next.

If the Big Kitty Kat Di$ney, Mr, Sir, etc Elton John taking his Elton-ing up to level eleven, every 10, 11, 12, and 13 year old girl in 1994 "OMG it's JTT! JTT!!! OMG!"-ing King is number one taking the spot from either Judy Garland in The Wizard of Oz or Gene Kelly in Singin' in the Rain I'm going to vomit and die just a bit.

And I can only offer one real solution to handle a number one Lion King spot, watch it will be.

https://image.chewy.com/is/image/catalog/62345_MAIN._AC_SL600_V1502308263_.jpg

I can careless if Lion King makes #1, I would rather have that then another Stanley Kubrick movie overshadowing the Number 1 or 2 spot once again. Will have to see when we get to the final 2 reveals :).

Holden Pike

11-21-24, 07:35 PM

102784

Cabaret was #40 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1970s, #79 on the original MoFo Top 100, and #79 on the MoFo Top 100 Refresh.

SpelingError

11-21-24, 07:41 PM

Cabaret was #5 on my ballot. So, that's two Bob Fosse films in my top five.

SpelingError

11-21-24, 07:42 PM

1. All That Jazz
2. Dancer in the Dark
4. The Burden
5. Cabaret
6. Inside Llewyn Davis
7. The Young Girls of Rochefort
8. Top Hat
12. Duck Soup
15. My Fair Lady
16. Meet Me in St. Louis
17. The Music Man
18. Mary Poppins
20. The Nightmare Before Christmas
22. The Rocky Horror Picture Show

WHITBISSELL!

11-21-24, 07:46 PM

Cabaret was my #18 pick.

Omnizoa

11-21-24, 07:47 PM

I knew Cabaret was a super popular musical so I tried to watch it for this Countdown.

I maybe gave it an hour before I gave up on it, the music wasn't clicking and nothing seemed to be happening.

Then I looked up the Wikipedia plot summary and was like WHAT THE ****.

iluv2viddyfilms

11-21-24, 09:31 PM

I can careless if Lion King makes #1, I would rather have that then another Stanley Kubrick movie overshadowing the Number 1 or 2 spot once again. Will have to see when we get to the final 2 reveals :).

Gaaaahh! You know you want 2001: ASO the Musical, complete with a singing and dancing Hal 9000.

stillmellow

11-21-24, 09:36 PM

Cabaret is too much of a downer to make my list, but it has a few great songs.

How DARE anyone trash Liza! Liza Manelli has the voice of an angel, and a terrific personality.

Okay, she's no Judy Garland, but Christ, how many people are? 0 to 1.

Holden Pike

11-21-24, 10:11 PM

I can careless if Lion King makes #1...
Really? You can be careless?

You meant couldn't care less. If you could care less that implies you do care some. Which begs the question, how much less could you care?

Holden Pike

11-21-24, 11:15 PM

I did not have Cabaret on my ballot, so time for another of my no-shows…

During their initial reign, The Beatles made two feature narrative films they participated in - A Hard Day’s Night (#23) and Help! - plus the animated Yellow Submarine (#72) where they just lent their music and the infamous documentary Let It Be. By contrast, Elvis Presley starred in THIRTY-ONE feature films, all but a couple of them Musicals, starting with Love Me Tender in 1956 and finishing with Change of Habit in 1969. That is an average of more than two a year, and for two of those years he was drafted into the U.S. Army and didn’t make any movies at all, which brings the average closer to three per year! With that many titles of course there are some stinkers, and even the better ones usually follow a pretty simple formula, especially those he cranked out in the 1960s. With so many to choose from I am not shocked that none of them rose high enough to make the Top 100. There isn’t really a clear consensus of what his best movie even is. Some say Jailhouse Rock or Love Me Tender, some will take his Western The Flaming Star, others prefer Viva Las Vegas or Blue Hawaii. For sure nobody’s favorite is It Happened at the World’s Fair or Clambake. But there are many of us who hail to the King in what was only his fourth flick, released just before he entered the Army…

102794
King Creole (1958) was directed by Michael Curtiz, the Hollywood veteran who began his career in the Silent era and helmed such Talkie classics as Casablanca, The Adventures of Robin Hood, Captain Blood, Angels with Dirty Faces, and Mildred Pierce, as well as two Musicals that made this countdown in Yankee Doodle Dandy (#32) and White Christmas (#82). He was seventy-two when he made his Elvis movie, but still an effortless cinematic storyteller.

If you’ve never had the pleasure, King Creole is set in the steamy French Quarter of New Orleans. Elvis plays Danny Fisher, a nineteen-year-old who is trying to juggle a couple jobs to support his family while also finishing High School. He gets in a couple fights and drops out of school, winds mixed up with a minor street gang led by Vic Morrow. One of his jobs is a busboy at a bar and there he runs into a local gangster and pimp Maxie Fields (Walter Matthau) as well as one of his girls, Ronnie (Carolyn Jones). Of course there is also a “good girl” Danny is interested in, Nellie (Delores Hart). Oh, yeah…and he can sing a little, too.

Adapted from a Harold Robbins novel and filmed in glorious black & white by D.P. Russell Harlan (Red River, Rio Bravo, To Kill a Mockingbird) with excellent use of the Louisiana locations, the project was originally set to star James Dean - minus the singing parts - and was shelved when he died. Elvis’ acting skills are not to the level of James Dean, but he acquaints himself well with this grittier character, which is Hamlet compared to some of the Technicolor silliness to come in the 1960s.

I had it on my ballot at number twenty-three, so just a few points.

HOLDEN’S BALLOT
2. La La Land (#13)
3. Pennies from Heaven (#56)
4. Dancer in the Dark (#20)
5. A Hard Day’s Night (#23)
6. The Blues Brothers (#19)
7. That Thing You Do! (#31)
8. The Umbrellas of Cherbourg (#11)
10. The Commitments (#107)
11. This is Spın̈al Tap (#55)
12. Hearts Beat Loud (#101)
13. A Star is Born (#43)
14. Hair (#47)
15. Sing Street (#40)
16. Xanadu (#DNP)
17. Amadeus (#97)
18. Once (#25)
19. The Muppets (#DNP)
21. Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (#69)
22. Little Shop of Horrors (#18)
23. King Creole (#DNP)
24. My Fair Lady (#10)
25. Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story (#74)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H6H7hUfnXU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUR3g0Xhxvc

iluv2viddyfilms

11-21-24, 11:42 PM

I can careless if Lion King makes #1

Really? You can be careless?

You meant couldn't care less. If you could care less that implies you do care some. Which begs the question, how much less could you care?

While on the topic of Cabaret, a musical which includes a healthy helping of Nazis, I'm glad we have our own resident arm band wearing member of the grammar sort in the ranks and on the lookout for crimes against the English language!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz1YVnPZWVw

Holden Pike

11-21-24, 11:50 PM

102795
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovCf9VRLnDY

iluv2viddyfilms

11-21-24, 11:53 PM

I did not have Cabaret on my ballot, so time for another of my no-shows…

23. King Creole (#DNP)

King Creole is a wonderful film. It's been years since I've seen it. Also I think the general consensus is that his most critically acclaimed film, for what that's worth, is Flaming Star which I liked a lot.

Also is Cabaret a film you don't care for or is it a film that you like, only you didn't include it on your ballet for strategic reasons because you figured it would easily make it toward the top of the list without your help?

kgaard

11-22-24, 12:10 AM

Wooley

11-22-24, 01:03 AM

I did not have Cabaret on my ballot, so time for another of my no-shows…

During their initial reign, The Beatles made two feature narrative films they participated in - A Hard Day’s Night (#23) and Help! - plus the animated Yellow Submarine (#72) where they just lent their music and the infamous documentary Let It Be. By contrast, Elvis Presley starred in THIRTY-ONE feature films, all but a couple of them Musicals, starting with Love Me Tender in 1956 and finishing with Change of Habit in 1969. That is an average of more than two a year, and for two of those years he was drafted into the U.S. Army and didn’t make any movies at all, which brings the average closer to three per year! With that many titles of course there are some stinkers, and even the better ones usually follow a pretty simple formula, especially those he cranked out in the 1960s. With so many to choose from I am not shocked that none of them rose high enough to make the Top 100. There isn’t really a clear consensus of what his best movie even is. Some say Jailhouse Rock or Love Me Tender, some will take his Western The Flaming Star, others prefer Viva Las Vegas or Blue Hawaii. For sure nobody’s favorite is It Happened at the World’s Fair or Clambake. But there are many of us who hail to the King in what was only his fourth flick, released just before he entered the Army…

102794
King Creole (1958) was directed by Michael Curtiz, the Hollywood veteran who began his career in the Silent era and helmed such Talkie classics as Casablanca, The Adventures of Robin Hood, Captain Blood, Angels with Dirty Faces, and Mildred Pierce, as well as two Musicals that made this countdown in Yankee Doodle Dandy (#32) and White Christmas (#82). He was seventy-two when he made his Elvis movie, but still an effortless cinematic storyteller.

If you’ve never had the pleasure, King Creole is set in the steamy French Quarter of New Orleans. Elvis plays Danny Fisher, a nineteen-year-old who is trying to juggle a couple jobs to support his family while also finishing High School. He gets in a couple fights and drops out of school, winds mixed up with a minor street gang led by Vic Morrow. One of his jobs is at a bar and there he runs into a local gangster and pimp Maxie Fields (Walter Matthau) as well as one of his girls, Ronnie (Carolyn Jones). Of course there is also a “good girl” Danny is interested in, Nellie (Delores Hart). Oh, yeah…and he can sing a little, too.

Adapted from a Harold Robbins novel and filmed in glorious black & white by D.P. Russell Harlan (Red River, Rio Bravo, To Kill a Mockingbird) with excellent use of the Louisiana locations, the project was originally set to star James Dean - minus the singing parts - and was shelved when he died. Elvis’ acting skills are not to the level of James Dean, but he acquaints himself well with this grittier character, which is Hamlet compared to some of the Technicolor silliness to come in the 1960s.

I had it on my ballot at number twenty-three, so just a few points.

HOLDEN’S BALLOT
2. La La Land (#13)
3. Pennies from Heaven (#56)
4. Dancer in the Dark (#20)
5. A Hard Day’s Night (#23)
6. The Blues Brothers (#19)
7. That Thing You Do! (#31)
8. The Umbrellas of Cherbourg (#11)
10. The Commitments (#107)
11. This is Spın̈al Tap (#55)
12. Hearts Beat Loud (#101)
13. A Star is Born (#43)
14. Hair (#47)
15. Sing Street (#40)
16. Xanadu (#DNP)
17. Amadeus (#97)
18. Once (#25)
19. The Muppets (#DNP)
21. Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (#69)
22. Little Shop of Horrors (#18)
23. King Creole (#DNP)
24. My Fair Lady (#10)
25. Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story (#74)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H6H7hUfnXU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUR3g0Xhxvc

I love King Creole. It was an oversight on my part that I did not consider the Elvis Canon.

gbgoodies

11-22-24, 01:46 AM

I like Cabaret, but more for the songs than for the movie itself. I'm not surprised to see that it made the countdown, but I'm a little bit surprised that it made it this high.

dadgumblah

11-22-24, 03:55 AM

Cabaret is a fine movie and will be one (if things go as I think) in the Top Ten to include Nazis. Who knew? :shifty: It's been a while since I saw it but liked it quite a bit. Didn't vote for it.

#1. On the Town #93 (list proper)
#2. Holiday Inn #109 (NEAR MISS)
#5. The Blues Brothers #19 (list proper)
#6. Easter Parade #78 (list proper)
#7. Grease #9 (list proper)
#8. Meet Me in St. Louis #33 (list proper)
#9 Yankee Doodle Dandy #32 (list proper)
#10. Gigi #85 (list proper)
#12. Calamity Jane #84 (list proper)
#14. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers #71 (list proper)
#17. Mary Poppins #8 (list proper)
#18. The Muppet Movie #45 (list proper)
#25. Neptune's Daughter (one-pointer)

stillmellow

11-22-24, 04:22 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxlj5jO4HI4

https://media1.giphy.com/media/p8d5mLp2XbDA2oqHqk/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952hjw4v23c26x6az6r55kvw5wra7dwhthsi3bffoxc&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g

MovieFan1988

11-22-24, 04:59 AM

Really? You can be careless?

You meant couldn't care less. If you could care less that implies you do care some. Which begs the question, how much less could you care?

Yes, that's what I meant, "couldn't care less" thanks for the correction :D:D

beelzebubble

11-22-24, 09:12 AM

I can careless if Lion King makes #1, I would rather have that then another Stanley Kubrick movie overshadowing the Number 1 or 2 spot once again. Will have to see when we get to the final 2 reveals :).
Did Kubrick make a musical? Maybe 2001? I bought that album, so...

Holden Pike

11-22-24, 09:16 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55XJivhjB4U

Gideon58

11-22-24, 09:43 AM

King Creole is a wonderful film. It's been years since I've seen it. Also I think the general consensus is that his most critically acclaimed film, for what that's worth, is Flaming Star which I liked a lot.

Also is Cabaret a film you don't care for or is it a film that you like, only you didn't include it on your ballet for strategic reasons because you figured it would easily make it toward the top of the list without your help?

King Creole is my favorite Elvis movie

MovieFan1988

11-22-24, 01:40 PM

Did Kubrick make a musical? Maybe 2001? I bought that album, so...

I thought he did Singin in the Rain, but I looked it up just now and its Stanley Donen that made it with another director. My mistakes :D:D

Citizen Rules

11-22-24, 01:46 PM

Stanley Donen...I just watched one of his lesser known films, it's not a great story per say but it's shot so dynamically with such creativity that it visually looks like a masterpiece. Arabesque (1966)
(https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060121/?ref_=nm_flmg_job_1_cdt_t_13)

Thursday Next

11-22-24, 02:41 PM

20lists294pointsThe Lion King (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/8587-the-lion-king.html)Director
Rob Minkoff, 1994

Starring
Matthew Broderick, Moira Kelly, Nathan Lane, Ernie Sabella

Thursday Next

11-22-24, 02:41 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaOIxll4LCA

KeyserCorleone

11-22-24, 02:44 PM

My only complaint is the same I gave Strangers on a Train, Ferris Bueller and North by Northwest: The female lead needs A LEEEETTLE bit more development. Otherwise, The Lion King is perfect. It possibly has Disney's best cast thus far, even for the modern day (except maybe Wreck-It Ralph), the best direction and a perfectly fine score. I honesty wish we got more out of Jonathan Taylor Thomas after this and Home Improvement, other than Pom Poko. However, I still put this under Beauty and the Beast and Fantasia, both of which were top 5 votes and are in my top 100 of all time.

exiler96

11-22-24, 02:48 PM

Theeeeere goes myyyyyyyyy childhood, come-on-bruh.

Miss Vicky

11-22-24, 02:49 PM

The Lion King came out during a phase in my life when I hated animation so it has never had nostalgia on its side. I've seen it a few times since then and, despite now loving animation, I still don't like it.

I would've liked to see an animated movie top the countdown though, so I'm mildly disappointed by its placement.

Holden Pike

11-22-24, 02:50 PM

102820

The Lion King was #5 on the MoFo Top 100 Animated Films and #57 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1990s. Can you feel the love, tonight?

exiler96

11-22-24, 02:50 PM

Allaby

11-22-24, 02:57 PM

The Lion King was #14 on my ballot. The animation is wonderful and I love the songs.

Seen: 93/95

John W Constantine

11-22-24, 03:08 PM

Miss Vicky

11-22-24, 03:16 PM

Your heart is unattainable, Vicky.

The animation is gorgeous, but I really hate those songs and I don't much care for the characters or the story. So... :shrug:

I had 7 animated movies on my ballot though, including my #2 pick.

WHITBISSELL!

11-22-24, 03:18 PM

Still haven't watched The Lion King and don't plan to.

https://media1.tenor.com/m/_VXVb2cFCrMAAAAd/ever.gif

beelzebubble

11-22-24, 03:34 PM

It possibly has Disney's best cast thus far, even for the modern day (except maybe Wreck-It Ralph), ...
Wreck-it Ralph was such fun!

I actually saw Lion King. There may have been small children in my life, but I can't remember. It is a wonderful movie but not on my list.

Torgo

11-22-24, 03:37 PM

My #3 pick. The "Circle of Life" opening sequence still fills me with awe and brings a tear to my eye even though I've seen it dozens of times. If it's not that, it's Jeremy Irons' scenery-chewing villainy, songs like "Hakuna Matata" and "Can You Feel the Love Tonight," how goshdarn funny Timon and Pumba are, etc. It's got it all. One of those movies where you never forget your theatrical experience.

Other than that, I can't be the only one who's surprised Disney hasn't scrubbed this image of Nala yet. I mean, c'mon.

https://i.postimg.cc/fy5KDG1j/924bbaeb4f2932772b0a50ffae2bcba2.jpg

Thief

11-22-24, 03:39 PM

Stats: Pit Stop #10
https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExd2E4ZGEzeHNleDl6MnRwbnNqbWtha3Z2dm5kZmNwemRtaWU2d3ZqaSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/13dMW2YwHZyoy4/giphy.webp

-

Now that we've hit the tenth and final pit stop (5), here are some stats:

Decade Breakdown

1920s = 0
1930s = 6
1940s = 6
1950s = 12
1960s = 11
1970s = 13
1980s = 11
1990s = 10
2000s = 11
2010s = 13
2020s = 2

The 1950s have been stuck for a while with 12! Their last entry was #42. However, the 2010s weren't able to capitalize much either, while the 1970s (with two recent entries) manage to tie at the top with 13.

Recurring Directors

Vincente Minnelli = 4
Ben Sharpsteen = 4*
Wilfred Jackson = 4*
John Carney = 3
John Musker & Ron Clements = 3
Hamilton Luske = 3*
Bob Fosse = 2
George Cukor = 2
Jacques Demy = 2
Rob Marshall = 2
Norman Jewison = 2
Michael Curtiz = 2
Bill Roberts = 2*
David Hand = 2*
Milos Forman = 2
Stanley Donen = 2
Tim Burton = 2**
Coen Brothers = 2
Norman Ferguson = 2*
T. Hee = 2*

Bob Fosse and George Cukor were the latest two additions to the group. Fosse had at #7 and [i]All That Jazz at #17, while Cukor had My Fair Lady at #10 and A Star Is Born at #67.

* Re: Disney's trend and logistics, Ben Sharpsteen and Wilfred Jackson remain at the top with their work in 4 films, Hamilton Luske with 3, and Bill Roberts, Norman Ferguson, and T. Hee with 2 each.

** Tim Burton shared directing credits of Corpse Bride with Mike Johnson.

The Lion King becomes the eighteenth (18) animated film to make the countdown, and if you wanna give Mary Poppins half a point, then we're at 18.5.

Torgo

11-22-24, 03:39 PM

Still haven't watched The Lion King and don't plan to.

https://media1.tenor.com/m/_VXVb2cFCrMAAAAd/ever.gifInteresting...

Not a Disney fan?
Belief that a mandrill holding a lion cub aloft is no basis for a system of government?
Jonathan Taylor Thomas tailgated you that one time?

Thief

11-22-24, 03:44 PM

Hard to argue with The Lion King being peak Disney, peak musical, or just peak cinema, period. It's just a gorgeously animated story with charm, drama, thrills, emotion, and everything you might want for both children and adults. And obviously, the music is a big part of that, from the iconic opening with "The Circle of Life" to the ominous "Be Prepared" or the fun "Hakuna Matata". Personally, I still put Aladdin above it, but this one's not that far. I had it at #11.

Here's where I stand...

SEEN: 34/95
MY BALLOT: 16/25

1. Moulin Rouge! (#30)
2. Little Shop of Horrors (#18)
3.
4. Once (#25)
5. La La Land (#13)
6. Aladdin (#22)
7. An American in Paris (#42)
8.
9. Cabin in the Sky (#103)
10. The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh (#110)
11. The Lion King (#6)
12. Inside Llewyn Davis (#53)
13. Moana (#68)
14. Sing Street (#40)
15.
16. My Fair Lady (#10)
17. Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street (#66)
18. Chicago (#21)
19. Mary Poppins (#8)
20.
21. The Band Wagon (#80)
22.
23.
24.
25. Hallelujah (One-pointer)

MovieFan1988

11-22-24, 03:46 PM

I had a feeling that it was going to be Lion King today, it's one of my favorite animated Disney movies.

My predictions for the top 5

The Wizard of Oz
Singin in the Rain
West Side Story
Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory
The Sound of Music

Thief

11-22-24, 03:48 PM

I know most people will drool over the other songs, deservedly so, so I will give a shout-out to this one. Infinitely catchy and fun!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bGjlvukgHU

Thief

11-22-24, 03:56 PM

Some other countdown facts...

The Lion King just snatched the top spot as far as IMDb scores go, with 8.5, followed by Amadeus at 8.4 and a handful tied at 8.0. Meanwhile, Into the Woods remain the film with the lowest IMDb score at 5.9.

As far as RT score, no change from my last post about this: Pinocchio, Meet Me in St. Louis, and Top Hat remain the only ones with 100% (i.e. overall positive consensus across critics). Meanwhile, The Greatest Showman, Jesus Christ Superstar, and Annie remain the only ones with a "Rotten" RT score (below 60%).

The 13 point gap between Cabaret and The Lion King is the fourth biggest gap.

WHITBISSELL!

11-22-24, 04:19 PM

Interesting...

Not a Disney fan?
Belief that a mandrill holding a monkey aloft is no basis for a system of government?
Jonathan Taylor Thomas tailgated you that one time?Hmm. I don't know whether or not to call myself a "fan" of Disney. I like their classics of course. Not the generational type classics like Beauty and the Beast, Lion King, Aladdin, Little Mermaid etc. but old school ones. And I do love the Pixar stuff. Maybe that "ever" was too strong. TLK came along too late for me and I really don't have a reason to ever watch it.

Torgo

11-22-24, 04:30 PM

Hmm. I don't know whether or not to call myself a "fan" of Disney. I like their classics of course. Not the generational type classics like Beauty and the Beast, Lion King, Aladdin, Little Mermaid etc. but old school ones. And I do love the Pixar stuff. Maybe that "ever" was too strong. TLK came along too late for me and I really don't have a reason to ever watch it.Makes sense. I first saw it as a teenager who had to be dragged to it, believing I was similarly done with Disney and it won me over anyway, FWIW.

kgaard

11-22-24, 04:46 PM

I was too old for The Lion King when it came out and too young to have my own kid(s), so I didn't actually see it until 2016 (when I did have a kid to watch it with). It's perfectly fine! Not a favorite, but not something I'd sniff at.

Citizen Rules

11-22-24, 04:47 PM

I have zero connection to Disney. I didn't watch it when I was a kid back in the paleolithic. I don't have kids so I wasn't obligated to have it play in the house 100 times over. I don't like Mickey and you'd have to pay me to go to Disneyland or Disneyworld...and pay me well to deal with those crowds. So guess which animated movie I didn't see:D

iluv2viddyfilms

11-22-24, 04:48 PM

Interesting numbers in looking at that breakdown. I made a somewhat conscious effort to include musicals from a large variety of years/decades. Obviously that wasn't a huge factor, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't cross my mind when making my top 25 musicals list. My spread in years goes from the most recent musical on my list, Dancer in the Dark in 2000 clear back to the oldest being in 1931 with The Smiling Lieutenant.

Taking a look at that breakdown for the top 100 musicals, it's interesting... or kind of sad really to be perfectly honest, that only a whopping 12... 12 out of a hundred, and yes it will be 13 to be fair when The Wizard of Oz shows up, but only 13 out of 100 musicals in this countdown are from before 1950. Before 1950 for a musicals list of all things. In the era where Vicente Minnelli (the greatest of all musical directors) was making some of his best films, where Fred Astaire was taking off the ground with Ginger Rogers, where acts like the Marx Brothers incorporated so much music into their films, Marlene Dietrich was at her most beautiful making musical-ish films with Josef Von Sternberg, some dude name Busby Berkeley was making huge extravaganza musicals to spit in the face of the Great Depression, and there's a whole treasure trove and unexplored world of pre-code musicals out there too just waiting to be discovered.

Yeah, definitely a bit of recency bias going on I think... especially considering there are 47... count em' 47 musicals on this list post 1980 in an era where there really aren't the big production glamorous and adult-geared lyricist/composer charming musicals of the pre fall of the studio system age 1967 and before... what in the world? Obviously the 1950's and 1960's were the pinnacle of musicals in terms of lavish productions and beautiful song-writing with highly developed stories, characters, and thematic elements. The 1970's produced some great off kilter material in the world of musicals that subverted while embracing the genre, but after the 1970s it was a rapid decline as it was the start of the era of the multiplex HUGE opening weekend box office blockbusters, action films, special effects, superhero movies, and on and on. And with the exception of a few rare "Oscar bait" musicals like Moulin Rouge and La La Land, musicals just became fewer and far between as it's not really a genre that lends itself to smaller more independent productions which is where the films geared toward adults are pretty much relegated to live now. There's some great smaller stuff like Inside Llewyn Davis, but those films aren't as common today.

My breakdown by decade in my top 25

1920s - 0
1930s - 4
1940s - 4
1950s - 4
1960s - 6
1970s - 4
1980s - 2
1990s - 0
2000s - 1
2010s - 0
2020s - 0

So I was definitely the inverse of the MoFo list with only a whopping seven of my 25 picks arriving after 1970.

Anyway.

So far with five films left to go, my number one: My Fair Lady and my number two: Cabaret are the only two to show in my top five musicals. I imagine my third, fourth, and fifth pick will pop up in the top five. There's no way they couldn't.

What I am happy about is that the big kitty Elton John/Di$ney cash cat thing didn't make it to number one or even in the top five. It would be no where near my top 100 if I had to make a list of my top 100 musicals. I think at this point Disney was more concerned about getting big names of the time like Elton John and Jonathan Taylor Thomas to sign up... all apologizes to Jeromy Irons, and also selling not only movie tickets, but albums and music rights along with radio play and yes a GAZILLION dollars in merchandising, more than making genuine art AND since it was drawing from source material that was Hamlet, Disney wasn't exactly having to pay any royalty rights for that. The Lion King was a big risk for Disney... the previous three big renaissance hits The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, and Aladdin all being well known stories and fables and they featured human protagonists not anthropomorphic animals, but it was a financial gamble that paid off.

The Lion King, and these are numbers from five years ago, as a franchise has brought in over $9 BILLION dollars. The title alone has a greater GDP than some third world countries.

Yeah the voice acting is meh... the story is neutered down from its source material and not really up to the creative standards of previous Disney films, and the music is meh with Elton John amped up to level 11.... CIRRRRRCCCCLLLLEEEE OFFF LIFFFFEEEEEE!!!!!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markbeech/2019/10/30/lion-king-tops-116-billion-on-anniversary-most-successful-franchise-ever/

OK, now with that out of the way, can I predict number one? It's gotta be Camelot. Camelot!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0Bp5odIZjQ

iluv2viddyfilms

11-22-24, 04:55 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFtBjc1dz7w

SpelingError

11-22-24, 06:23 PM

The Lion King is pretty good, but while the story is very memorable, I actually find the songs hit-or-miss, which lessened my admiration of it when I watched it, so it didn't make my ballot.

mrblond

11-22-24, 07:04 PM

iluv2viddyfilms

11-22-24, 07:27 PM

Cabaret, from yesterday, not only was in the 2nd spot for the top 25 list, but it's also a film that has a solid place in my top 100 of all time movies. My write up is in that thread for those who are interested in why I view it as such a great movie:

https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=2510395#post2510395

iluv2viddyfilms

11-22-24, 07:36 PM

Since we've reached top 5, I also start revealing some of my picks:

I had at #22. Funny Face (1957)

Directed by Stanley Donen
Starring Audrey Hepburn, Fred Astaire, Kay Thompson

Saw it specially for the countdown. I Liked its modern visual style and production design and decided to include it on the ballot at the lower slots since the screenplay was not so good.
Honestly, I'm surprised it not making the list, even not the near misses. After all there are Audrey Hepburn and Fred Astaire and the movie is so colorful... Hm.

102828

I wonder if you are I are the only ones who voted for Funny Face. I just absolutely love it and there's no way it wouldn't be on my list. I placed it at 24. We get to see Audrey in her full glory at her most youthfully exuberant and alongside none other than Fred Astaire... age difference be damned, I really don't care! It's a fun and charming musical as you can hope to find. I love, just absolute adore, her jazz dance at the Bohemian Club/Cafe. Also the lightning and cinematography in that scene is perfect as it's not an easy thing to make low light actually look like low light but also have the shot bright enough that at no point it is too difficult to see. In fact, speaking of Cabaret, the photography is very similar to Fosse's film with the smoky rooms and muted diffused shadowy lighting.

The whole build up to that is great too with Audrey and Astaire debating over empathaticalism and how it leads to later on in the film when the professor (Flostre) of that school of thought really just using all that nonsense to get into her character's pants. It's a bit wicked, but the whole thing is presented in a way that is Hayes code appropriate and toned down for the 1950's but really it's essentially the whole bit where Dennis in "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" goes to a pro-choice rally just to pretend he cares in order to take advantage of women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FznWwWrOIQ

iluv2viddyfilms

11-22-24, 07:43 PM

Oh and another thing about Audrey's Bohemian dance scene in Funny Face. I was listening to a podcast about the film and apparently director Stanley Donen and Audrey Hepburn nearly came to blows over a matter of whether or not she would be wearing white socks with her all black outfit. Audrey said yes and Donen said absolutely not as it wouldn't translate well on film to her the movement of her steps. Audrey apparently had a fit and nearly walked out, but eventually relented, realized and saw that Donen was correct and then apologized for her horrible behavior and emotional outburst.

Citizen Rules

11-22-24, 08:09 PM

Thursday Next

11-22-24, 08:37 PM

I really like Funny Face but it just missed out on my ballot.

Wooley

11-22-24, 08:58 PM

OK, now with that out of the way, can I predict number one? It's gotta be Camelot. Camelot!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0Bp5odIZjQ

Hey, it was my No.14.
Dunno what the hell the rest of you guys are watching.

Wooley

11-22-24, 09:01 PM

I do not really wanna rain on everyone else's parade so I will only say of The Lion King that every song in that movie is like nails on a chalkboard to me, it is the low point of Elton John's career as a great musician in my mind, and The Little Mermaid (which I also did not vote for) is literally seven times better than The Lion King.
That is all. Please continue with the celebration. Hakuna matata and shit.

cricket

11-22-24, 09:22 PM

Cabaret is in the same boat as All that Jazz for me. I saw it once a few years ago and liked it but not as much as I had expected. Ever since, I've wanted to see it again. Ideally it would've happened for this countdown but it didn't. Maybe there's something with the style of Bob Fosse that I don't care for as I was underwhelmed by Lenny as well. I am a fan of Star 80 though.

I did vote for The Lion King. I know, I know. I'm just a sucker for animals.

1. The Blues Brothers (#19)
3. Umbrellas of Cherbourg (#11)
5. Charlotte's Web (#79)
7. Stingray Sam (#46)
8. Grease (#9)
9. Hedwig and the Angry Inch (#15)
10. The Lure (#51)
11. Yankee Doodle Dandy (#32)
13. Dancer in the Dark (#20)
14. A Star is Born 2018 (#43)
15. Sing Street (#40)
16. Once (#25)
17. Calamity Jane (#84)
19. The Lion King (#6)
20. Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street (#66)
21. A Star is Born 1954 (#67)
22. La La Land (#13)
23. Pink Floyd - The Wall (#41)
24. The Young Girls of Rochefort (#36)
25. 42nd Street (#76)

Little Ash

11-22-24, 09:37 PM

Still haven't watched The Lion King and don't plan to.

https://media1.tenor.com/m/_VXVb2cFCrMAAAAd/ever.gif

The Lion King came out when I was in early high school. I remember classmates talking about it so much, I did eventually watch it a year or two later (still in high school) when it came to TV. Um, I'm okay never seeing it again. My memory of it isn't great, but while I don't recall hating it, I don't recall loving it. It would also fail my test of, "would I watch this (again) now." Just no interest.

IMO, you're good.

iluv2viddyfilms

11-22-24, 10:19 PM

PHOENIX74

11-22-24, 11:00 PM

7. Cabaret (1972) - I have an aversion to Michael York - I don't exactly know why, but as time went by he made me feel more and more uncomfortable in all the films I saw him in. As such that spoiled Cabaret a little for me. I still rated the film 8/10 though, because my ratings more or less reflect on how good I think the film is and not whether I personally enjoy it (or at least - it's a mix of those two elements.) I hope to watch it again one day, and see if I enjoy it more the second time around - not that I hated it, I just failed to love it. Not on my ballot.

6. The Lion King (1994) - Never been all that eager to see The Lion King, and as such I've never seen it. I'm sure all the songs are wonderful and the animation beautiful, but it's never really held much appeal for me. Who knows, if I actually saw it I might decry that attitude and declare that I was very wrong to not want to see it. Of course, it would be silly of me to put a film I haven't seen on my ballot - so it's not.

Seen : 65/95

Okay, my #24 (and very much in contention for my 1-pointer spot, so I'm very interested in seeing if anyone else voted for this) is Takashi Miike's The Happiness of the Katakuris.

https://i.postimg.cc/1tJ0R1BF/happiness.jpg

I wrote this when I saw it the first time : "The fact that Takashi Miike made The Happiness of the Katakuris around the same time he did Visitor Q made me a little nervous - not that I found the latter film unendurable, but it transgressed boundaries in a way that was extreme even for this director. The Katakuris has a much better balance of weirdness, horror and fun - it doesn't go for taboos as hard, instead injecting as much of the bizarre as it can while never straying too far from it's central theme about family. The Katakuris consist of a grandfather, mother and father, son and daughter and granddaughter - all living together while running the ‘White Lover's Inn' - situated on a former garbage dump near Mount Fuji. The bed and breakfast hasn't quite got on it's feet yet - the road that will be passing by hasn't been constructed, and whenever the Katakuris gets new guests they find some kind of way of dying. Afraid to taint their business by having to acknowledge these deaths, the Katakuris decide to bury the bodies nearby in an ever-expanding graveyard. (I have never seen The Quiet Family, so was unaware that this was loosely based on it.)

While not always even, or having any kind of rhythm, this film manages to mix together a concoction of styles that'll make your head spin. There's claymation which takes the place of what's going on at any random moment (a lot of fun), and when it's not claymation it's a musical number - all the while Takashi's sense of humour (and I'm almost afraid to admit this) pretty much lines up with mine, making a lot of the funny stuff 'laugh-out-loud' for me. The film is never serious, but at the same time it's beating heart - the love of family - is it's one truly profound and resplendent feature. As a refreshing change, the Katakuris aren't a completely dysfunctional unit but instead a loving family that has it's problems but overcomes them because the love between them all is never questioned or weakened. Whenever it comes time for one to make a sacrifice for the whole, most of them will put their hand up. One other thing I'm thankful for is the fact that none of them are sick or perverted - just unlucky.

Yeah - they all have their problems. The daughter (recently divorced) is the type who falls in love at the drop of a hat - and indeed she swoons over an audacious con-man, "Richard Sagawa" (Kiyoshiro Imawano) who claims to be a member of the British royal family. The son was troubled and a thief, but is trying to make a better go of it. The bed and breakfast might turn out okay - but the fact that the Katakuris are burying so many dead bodies makes this situation deliriously funny. As each one shows up we slip into musical territory which just increases that feeling - and that's where the film is at it's strongest. Sometimes we slide over into absolute lunacy, and that's where the film almost loses me here and there. The film starts in an absolutely bizarre manner - and as I watched I wondered if the entire film would be completely inscrutable - but everything waxes and wanes in The Happiness of the Katakuris. A bright and very Japanese mixture of music, comedy, horror, claymation and positivity. I liked it very much." It's become a favourite of mine, and thus had to find a spot somewhere on my list, even at this low position.

stillmellow

11-22-24, 11:59 PM

The Lion King is undeniably a perfectly executed movie, and my #11 pick. It perfectly nails the spot of being a family movie full of heartfelt songs and amazing visuals, but it's also not too kiddie. This is a world filled with death, where animals often kill to survive.

It has depth, laughs, and one of the greatest openings in movie history. Yes, Nala could use a bit more character development, and 'goose-stepping hyenas' is a bit over the top, but it's one of Disney's best.

Now if I could just erase the terrible CGI remake from my mind.

PHOENIX74

11-23-24, 12:10 AM

Decade Breakdown

1920s = 0
1930s = 6
1940s = 6
1950s = 12
1960s = 11
1970s = 13
1980s = 11
1990s = 10
2000s = 11
2010s = 13
2020s = 2

Very nice spread there!

dadgumblah

11-23-24, 12:38 AM

I love The Lion King and saw it at the cinema on its first release. But I went in not knowing or hearing all the advertising for it. So when a little kid came on a TV commercial for a Lion King product and I only saw him at the end where he said, "Hakuna Matata" really fast, I could have sworn he said, "Gotta go tata." I thought he was saying in some slang that he had to go to the bathroom. I was corrected by a younger family member who was already well-versed in LIon King-speak. Well, I couldn't let go of that after finding out, so from then on (and even to this day), when somebody is hogging the toilet, I'll knock and say, "Gotta go tata!" :p

But the film itself is greatness and I watch it whenever I find the time. I still prefer Beauty and the Beast but this film is not far behind. Didn't vote for it.

I agree with mrblond and iluv2viddyfilms about the greatness of Funny Face. Great movie (Audrey and Fred in the same movie, c'mon!) and the Bohemian Dance is just one of many reasons it's great. I remember there being this commercial for The Gap with Audrey's dancing from the film, but I don't recall AC/DC music being the original music in the ad (not that there's anything wrong with that).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_K-GxEk3K0

PHOENIX74 I'm totally sold on The Happiness of the Katakuris! Looks like my jam, so thank you and I'll get back to you after I see it!

#1. On the Town #93 (list proper)
#2. Holiday Inn #109 (NEAR MISS)
#5. The Blues Brothers #19 (list proper)
#6. Easter Parade #78 (list proper)
#7. Grease #9 (list proper)
#8. Meet Me in St. Louis #33 (list proper)
#9 Yankee Doodle Dandy #32 (list proper)
#10. Gigi #85 (list proper)
#12. Calamity Jane #84 (list proper)
#14. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers #71 (list proper)
#17. Mary Poppins #8 (list proper)
#18. The Muppet Movie #45 (list proper)
#25. Neptune's Daughter (one-pointer)

Omnizoa

11-23-24, 01:31 AM

Not surprised The Lion King is in the Top 10. I put it at #6, but once again I'dve probably rated it lower if I'd seen more musicals before the countdown.

The Circle of Life theme (not Theme) has always been a disconnect with me since I have only ever watched it as a vegetarian or vegan. The "good guys" don't win brownie points from me when they're functionally despots of the Savannah and literally no better than the "bad guys" who are only "bad guys" by sheer virtue of the fact that their crimes towards other animals are depicted onscreen.

...up until we watch Simba, Timon, and Pumbaa literally suck down a variety of insects, which is presented as morally unobjectionable as compared to eating a zebra, antelope, or hippo. Like, we're supposed to object to seeing a meerkat and boar being eaten because they've been personified, so it's awful convenient that we've chosen not to give the bugs they eat names, personalities, and an interest in self-preservation.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/5a4bb15449f1aba00f4811f073c00efc/e761e5a5d6ed075c-49/s500x750/9cdb95730759a90bfddf0c37ba8644a22c7e1385.gif

That's just always bothered me about The Lion King. I don't care whether lions are obligate carnivores, you make them the main characters in your movie and then bring up the issue, I don't want to hear your crappy rationalization.

Do the antelope willingly sacrifice themselves for the lions as much as they show up to their baby showers? Because if not, then it seems like "The Circle of Life" is just some enormous cope the lions use to feel better about themselves.

But it's a banger song so shut up and don't think about it.

gbgoodies

11-23-24, 01:42 AM

The Lion King is another movie that I like more for the songs than the movie itself. I know that it's one of the most loved Disney movies, so I'm not surprised to see it this high, but IMO it's nowhere near the best of the Disney musicals.

iluv2viddyfilms

11-23-24, 02:20 AM

Hey, it was my No.14.
Dunno what the hell the rest of you guys are watching.

I love Camelot. I had it at the 23rd place. There's still hope!

Gideon58

11-23-24, 05:13 AM

Have never been able to get through Camelot, despite a sublime score, one of the most boring musicals I have ever tried to watch.

John W Constantine

11-23-24, 06:54 AM

stillmellow

11-23-24, 07:56 AM

Next thing you know you guys will tell me you couldn't get through Paint Your Wagon. I know I only had it at #25 but one doesn't simply forget Lee Marvin doing Lee Marvin on whiskey and Clint singing to trees. You just can't unsee it.

I'm a defender of that movie. Yes, it's absurdly long, but it's a charming story with memorable songs. There's something very down to Earth about it. It's about three lonely people making a life with each other.

Little Ash

11-23-24, 09:02 AM

PHOENIX74 - Happiness of the Katakuris
I saw this about 20 years ago and if asked, I would have remembered there were a couple musical numbers in it, but it completely slipped my mind that it was a musical (and a bit that it existed). If I had remembered, I think I probably would have made time for a rewatch and see how it held up. I remember being a bit let down by it, but I don't remember disliking it (it currently passes the, "I would watch again now," test. (I'm using this test, I think, to test, "do I actually like this movie or do other people tell me it's great, so I should also say it's great," which I'm more cognizant of when dealing with movies that are often interested in things cinematically that I'm generally not usually interested in. e.g. I think most dance choreography)).

I know I did watch Seijun Suzuki's Princess Raccoon for this countdown (yeah. Suzuki made a musical. It was his final film). It was a bummer back then because it was the only Suzuki movie I recall watching that I just didn't care for, and it seemed odd after I really liked Pistol Opera at the time (and it was pulling from the same theatrical visual pallet). Re-watching it... It had moments here and there, but I honestly couldn't say that I liked it. Which now makes it a bummer that he went out on a movie I didn't like after a career of movies that liked to loved.

honeykid

11-23-24, 10:18 AM

Takoma11

11-23-24, 11:43 AM

The Circle of Life theme (not Theme) has always been a disconnect with me since I have only ever watched it as a vegetarian or vegan. The "good guys" don't win brownie points from me when they're functionally despots of the Savannah and literally no better than the "bad guys" who are only "bad guys" by sheer virtue of the fact that their crimes towards other animals are depicted onscreen.

I don't think that just seeing the violence on-screen is what makes Scar the villain. I think that from the way that the savanna is wrecked under his reign, we can infer that the environment is no longer balanced. Part of the circle of life is keeping the correct ratios in each level of the food pyramid.

Also, killing to seize power is really different from killing to survive.

I take your point about which animals are given personalities and which ones are kept "animal"/insect, but it's a reality that many creatures must consume other creatures to survive. Having a grub beg for its life before Timon eats it doesn't really serve the film or the overall point it is making.

stillmellow

11-23-24, 12:10 PM

Honestly, if Scar brought Simba back to the pride, and didn't try to usurp power away from him, he'd almost be sympathetic. Mufasa treated him terribly.

seanc

11-23-24, 12:38 PM

I had The Lion King at #21. I saw it once back in '94 (I think) and I liked it. I'll agree that a number of the songs are played out though.

I think I have 2 from the top 5 as well. Pretty good for me. Or poor, depending on your POV,

Now here is the surprise of the countdown for me. I was sure you were disgusted by anything Disney for some reason.

Gideon58

11-23-24, 12:46 PM

John W Constantine

11-23-24, 01:10 PM

Hate Paint Your Wagon too
Hopefully you feel different about Dirty Dancing because I had it #7. I'm guessing it didn't quite check all the boxes of a MoFo musical but it is a film I remember the family watching when I was a kid. The soundtrack is classic and Swayze dog manages to lip sync a few notes during the finale. If only we could have been treated to some notes while he was spin kicking drunks in Road House it would have a found another spot on my ballot.

Citizen Rules

11-23-24, 01:20 PM

Camelot had amazing set design, I watched it for the first time in prep for the countdown. It didn't make my crowded ballot but I though positive about it.

Paint Your Wagon really wanted to rewatch this one, had I rewatched it it might have made my ballot. I loved Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood singing in a western and the story wasn't some happy-sappy affair.

Omnizoa

11-23-24, 01:21 PM

we can infer that the environment is no longer balanced. Part of the circle of life is keeping the correct ratios in each level of the food pyramid.Yes, that's the rationalization, and I'm sure Mufasa looks like a swell guy when offscreen he's pulling lottery tickets for which zebra needs to die for him today to maintain his kingdom.

I mean that alone is what flies for a central conflict in other movies, that's literally the premise of Dragonslayer.

Having a grub beg for its life before Timon eats it doesn't really serve the film or the overall point it is making.But having Timon fear for his life from being killed and eaten by Nala does? My point is it's a double standard. Timon and Pumbaa's interests are equally as inconsequential to Nala as grubs are to Timon and Pumbaa. The difference is the creators deliberately drew a line through the range of animals they chose to depict and arbitrarily decided which ones they wanted the audience to empathize with, and any unfortunate implications they created by way of this fictional "kingdom", they simply chose not to depict.

Disney's shown with many movies that they can depict normally adversarial animals coexisting without necessarily getting into the weeds of interspecies politics, but in The Lion King, they do, by virtue of explicitly treating some animals as more important or worthy of moral consideration than others.

Quite simply, if that doesn't "serve the overall point of the movie", then maybe they should have left that little detail out. And despite what you may think, I don't believe the vast majority of the movie would even have to change.

Wooley

11-23-24, 01:28 PM

Have never been able to get through Camelot, despite a sublime score, one of the most boring musicals I have ever tried to watch.

Eh, I love it. I love Franco Nero as Launcelot, I love David Hemmings (from Deep Red!) as Mordred, but Vanessa Redgrave is genuinely special as Guinevere... but she's not even the best in the movie. That goes to Richard Harris whose Arthur is so nuanced it's almost absurd. As a boy and teenager, Richard Harris' Arthur taught me that a man, even a king, can be unsure, he can be strong and wise but still sad, still full of doubts, and most of all that a man can be thoughtful. He is part of the reason that I have rejected macho masculinity my whole life in favor of a more considered approach to being a man.
Yes, Camelot the musical did that for me.
Plus, the man can sing.

Citizen Rules

11-23-24, 01:50 PM

Thursday Next

11-23-24, 01:51 PM

19lists296pointsWilly Wonka & the Chocolate Factory (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/252-willy-wonkathe-chocolate-factory.html)Director
Mel Stuart, 1971

Starring
Gene Wilder, Peter Ostrum, Jack Albertson, Paris Themmen

Thursday Next

11-23-24, 01:51 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y8aYd9uqFY

Allaby

11-23-24, 02:05 PM

I like Willy Wonka, but it didn't make my ballot.

Seen: 94/96

Takoma11

11-23-24, 02:29 PM

Yes, that's the rationalization, and I'm sure Mufasa looks like a swell guy when offscreen he's pulling lottery tickets for which zebra needs to die for him today to maintain his kingdom.

But . . . a zebra does have to die for the lions to stay alive. They physically cannot survive without eating other animals. Scar is a villain because he kills out of malice and a desire for power. He's a villain because his pursuit of power/dominance has a negative effect on the entire ecosystem.

But having Timon fear for his life from being killed and eaten by Nala does? My point is it's a double standard. Timon and Pumbaa's interests are equally as inconsequential to Nala as grubs are to Timon and Pumbaa. The difference is the creators deliberately drew a line through the range of animals they chose to depict and arbitrarily decided which ones they wanted the audience to empathize with, and any unfortunate implications they created by way of this fictional "kingdom", they simply chose not to depict.

That is how all movies work. We care primarily about the characters we spend time with and have less empathy for characters we don't.

Someone watching Saving Private Ryan is not going to be as emotionally invested and/or upset at the death of a background extra as they will be at the death of one of the main characters.

To me, this is a bit like asking why we weren't shown (SPOILERS FOR Star Wars)the painful immolation of all poor construction workers on the Death Star..

I mean, I own chickens and have had to deal with predation from foxes (among others), but I don't morally object to The Fantastic Mr. Fox treating the chickens as "dumb animals" while the foxes and other creatures are given full personalities and emotions. Foxes eat chickens. If you're going to center a movie on foxes, that's just a reality.

Quite simply, if that doesn't "serve the overall point of the movie", then maybe they should have left that little detail out. And despite what you may think, I don't believe the vast majority of the movie would even have to change.

Animals eat other animals to survive, and the sequence of Timon and Pumba eating does serve the film because it shows the lifestyle change that Simba is making by living with them.

I do think that it's important to be vigilant about how movies (or any art) portray different groups and when they are sending the message that a certain group is unworthy of empathy or that they are disposable. But in The Lion King I don't see that scene as saying the insects are unimportant.

Miss Vicky

11-23-24, 02:42 PM

I saw Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory a few times as a kid and thought it was just okay. I rewatched it for this countdown and my opinion didn't change.

I marginally prefer Tim Burton's version and also rewatched it for this, but didn't vote for either one.

Gideon58

11-23-24, 03:36 PM

Hopefully you feel different about Dirty Dancing because I had it #7. I'm guessing it didn't quite check all the boxes of a MoFo musical but it is a film I remember the family watching when I was a kid. The soundtrack is classic and Swayze dog manages to lip sync a few notes during the finale. If only we could have been treated to some notes while he was spin kicking drunks in Road House it would have a found another spot on my ballot.

Love Dirty Dancing

Little Ash

11-23-24, 03:49 PM

Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory totally slipped my mind as a musical. It would have made ballot if it hadn't. I've got a soft spot for Dahl's works and this and the source material were the entry point for me as young, wee lad.

KeyserCorleone

11-23-24, 04:06 PM

I am the biggest Wonka fan on this website. As proof, I once made a Wonka Factory Monopoly for a book report, have kept the same copy of when the Oompa-Loompas were still black, started a Wonka wiki (which I haven;'t updated for a while), and even redesigned the Wonka Bar itself, including adding some original flavors.

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/e00953f3-585a-4190-926e-c0194a4ba472/dc5w13p-0d6df62b-24aa-4d35-b3c8-3487f8e727e4.png/v1/fill/w_1024,h_466,q_80,strp/wonka_s_red_velvet_carpet_ride__fanbar__by_blur_falco_dc5w13p-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNh NWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7 ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NDY2IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvZTAwOTUzZjMtNTg1YS00MTkwLTkyNmUtYzAxOTRhNGJhNDcyXC9kYzV3MTNw LTBkNmRmNjJiLTI0YWEtNGQzNS1iM2M4LTM0ODdmOGU3MjdlNC5wbmciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTAyNCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46 c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.WTxrkZPlWDWg7e5_kiKiv2NLN5XQNQLBHgDJD3kc8eM

To see the film reach top 5 is the icing on today's extra-productive cake. This movie, the book and the reboot defined a huge part of my childhood. What I adore about the franchise is that it exists in its OWN GENRE, and not in the "light elements of a bunch of genres in one cool and consistent whole" way like Cowboy Bebop. No one can emulate this.

WHITBISSELL!

11-23-24, 04:06 PM

Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory was my #11 pick. And even though I haven't seen the two remakes I'm gonna go ahead and call them abominations.

With 4 spaces left my #3 & 4 picks should show up.

Citizen Rules

11-23-24, 04:20 PM

I love the original Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory, it's such a complete world building experience. Gene Wilder's Willa Wonka is mystically, maybe even magically in a god like way. Sequestered in his private world of the chocolate factory, he's the soul caretaker of the forlorn Oompa Loompas. He's also very human...flippant, arrogant and distant. At times he's sorrowful and deeply lonely and he cares greatly.

Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory has a brilliant script based on a great book and one of the most complex characters I've ever seen, played to perfection by Gene Wilder.

Glad it made the countdown! I was hoping for even higher.

Omnizoa

11-23-24, 04:56 PM

But . . . a zebra does have to die for the lions to stay alive. They physically cannot survive without eating other animals.This is not news.

Scar is a villain because he kills out of malice and a desire for power. He's a villain because his pursuit of power/dominance has a negative effect on the entire ecosystem.Whereas Mufasa is not a villain because he is already a legitimized evil.

Someone watching Saving Private Ryan is not going to be as emotionally invested and/or upset at the death of a background extra as they will be at the death of one of the main characters.You're really just saying that I can't morally judge the protagonists for the actions they take and the beliefs they hold towards others, provided the "others" aren't named in the credits. I think that's completely ridiculous, especially when you're bringing up Saving Private Ryan. (https://savingprivateryan.fandom.com/wiki/Czech_Wehrmacht_Soldier)

To me, this is a bit like askingAre antelope a spacefaring imperial regime bent on literally blowing up entire planets?

I don't think it's even "a bit like" that at all.

Maybe if Star Wars opened up with Obi Wan explaining to Luke that the Force is a grand and cyclical concept in which Jedi vampires dominate and slaughter everyone else in the galaxy to stay in power, then maybe you'd have a point. Those gosh darn stormtroopers don't know how to run a galaxy do they? It is for the good of the universe that the Jedi know not to kill too many people. The Sith are evil because they kill people AND damage the economy in the process.

https://i.imgflip.com/6rkw7o.gif

I mean, I own chickensI am completely shocked that we disagree on this subject.

Wait, this is... MovieForums.com? I could have sworn this was Veggieboards, where everyone agrees with me all the time and definitely has not banned me for turning forums into an "acerbic gladiatorial arena".

but I don't morally object to The Fantastic Mr. Fox treating the chickens as "dumb animals"I haven't seen Fantastic Mr. Fox, I'll take that as a movie to avoid, thank you.

in The Lion King I don't see that scene as saying the insects are unimportant.I didn't say that they did,
or they should have been,
and I'm sure the creators didn't care.
But they begged the question anyway, so that's why I'm asking it.

Oh, did Willy Wonka just go up?
TOP 5 BABYYY, I CALLED IT.

Wonka was my #2.

Holden Pike

11-23-24, 05:32 PM

102850

Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory was #47 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1970s.

Takoma11

11-23-24, 05:39 PM

Whereas Mufasa is not a villain because he is already a legitimized evil.

I am having a hard time following your logic. You're saying that you consider a lion evil for eating another animal to survive?

You're really just saying that I can't morally judge the protagonists for the actions they take and the beliefs they hold towards others, provided the "others" aren't named in the credits. I think that's completely ridiculous, especially when you're bringing up Saving Private Ryan. (https://savingprivateryan.fandom.com/wiki/Czech_Wehrmacht_Soldier)

I'm saying that morally judging animals for eating other animals seems very strange to me. I'm also saying that in a story about animals (or people), it is natural to be more invested in the survival of the characters we spend the most time with. That said, of course we can extend empathy and care toward characters who are considered minor/other.

I'm just not sure how Timon eating a grub is a reflection of a "belief" or how/why it would be seen as a morally incorrect action.

Are antelope a spacefaring imperial regime bent on literally blowing up entire planets?

Absolutely. You can see it in their devious eyes.

I don't think it's even "a bit like" that at all.

I don't see how it's different. You're asking why certain characters are allowed to be faceless and why the audience is given permission to not care about their death/suffering, and I'm saying that's a part of a LOT of movies and it's not always due to a dehumanizing attitude but more a matter of economy.

Maybe if Star Wars opened up with Obi Wan explaining to Luke that the Force is a grand and cyclical concept . . .

It sounds like you think that the food chain is evil, and I'm not honestly sure what to say to that. Predators don't eat other animals because the Lion King commands them to. If anything, the events of the film show us that Mufasa was keeping a balance in the ecosystem so that all of the animals could thrive.

I guess it seems weirder to me to have a movie about animals and never acknowledge that they eat one another. Have you read The Wild Robot? I think that book does a pretty good job of navigating this challenge with anthropomorphized animals.

exiler96

11-23-24, 05:41 PM

Similiar to what some of you obscure fellows said about The Lion Freakin' King... I watched Willy Wonka later than what might be an "ideal" age to watch it...I'm glad I did; I just feel more connection to Tim Burton's version (I know I know)... Gene Wilder was one of a kind though. I'll make sure to pay him my respects when we do (or re-do :devil: ) a comedies countdown someday.

MovieFan1988

11-23-24, 05:47 PM

iluv2viddyfilms

11-23-24, 05:54 PM

I'm a defender of that movie. Yes, it's absurdly long, but it's a charming story with memorable songs. There's something very down to Earth about it. It's about three lonely people making a life with each other.

https://oregonconfluence.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Paint-Your-Wagon-Poster.jpg?w=640

Paint Your Wagon is my 20th pick and I love it so much, in spite of all its flaws, that I couldn't not have it on my list.

I had written a review of the film at a previous site I used to post at years and years ago and who knows if I still have that review. I absolutely love Paint Your Wagon and not even in a sarcastic or a so good it's bad type of way. I do recognized it is a flawed movie, but it has a charm to it and a sweetness to it. I think Lee Marvin is great in it as is Jean Seberg and it's too bad the film didn't do well to turn her career around. As much as I love Clint Eastwood, I find him to be the weak link in the film as far as the casting goes. I don't think he quite brings the humor and vulnerability and a type of self deprecating charm that the role needs. Clint Eastwood is Cline Eastwood, and though he's great as a romantic lead in The Bridges of Madison County, it's because he is essentially playing a more confident and self assured and accomplished character which Eastwood can definitely exude. He's just wrong for Paint Your Wagon... to gruff, too masculine, not near enough humor about himself.

Paint Your Wagon is the type of film that in the role of Pardner demands either a Jack Lemmon type of persona or a Cary Grant type of persona or even Ton Curtis in that role. Obviously all of those actors would be wrong and waaay too old for that part, but an actor like them that exudes that kind of energy. Maybe even someone like Alain Delon or Marcello Mastroianni. But Eastwood, while I don't think he tanks the movie, it's clear to see he isn't right for it. I understand why they cast him. They probably looked at this resume as saw his star on the rise coming off of the spaghetti westerns with Leone and then remembered he might be able to sing from he Rawhide days.

https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/lee_marvin_with_a_beard_and_a_hat_in_paint_your_wagon.jpg

Oh well. Like I said I love Paint Your Wagon and it's sad it's largely forgotten or the butt of jokes today because there's so much great stuff going on there. It's got wonderful songs, it's a Lerner and Lowe musical and the great Paddy Chayefsky lending to the screenplay. The on-location filming northern California setting is gorgeous and the story about Mormons, wife trading, polygamy, gold mining, and the satirical look at civilization vs lawlessness is just all good fun and all of this a half century before The Book of Mormon - another musical hit that took pot shots at perhaps one of the silliest of all sub-religions (apologies to any Mormons in the house). William A. Fraker shot the film as the grip and he has so many other distinguishing looking films under his belt - Bullitt, Rosemary's Baby, and Heaven Can Wait, so it's not surprising that Paint Your Wagon looks so great.

I particularly like the musical numbers "A Million Miles Away Behind Closed Doors," "The First Thing You Know!," and "They Call the Wind Maria." However my absolutely favorite song is easily "Wanderin' Star" full of the sadness, sense of longing, and sense of resignation of someone who just can't find their place or make their mark in the world or find themselves being let down by people. The lyrics to that song are actually quite remarkable, tender, and sad in a way. And yes, I love the fact that Lee Marvin, not a singer at all, is able to do his own singing because it lends such an authenticity to the song. I think I read Seberg described his voice as gravel traveling down a rusty old rain pipe. But that's what the film needs, that's who the character is, and that's the perfect compliment to the nature of the song. I also prefer Lee Marvin's comedic turn in Paint You Wagon to another comedy western of the same time period where he won his Academy Award, Cat Ballou. But the songs and the writing are top notch in Paint You Wagon and the songs lends themselves to not only the story and character, but the tone and mood that is evoked in any particular moment within said story. These are things that Lerner and Loewe in their musicals knew, while Rodgers and Hammerstein didn't. Rodgers and Hammerstein could write some bangers for sure, but their songs work better in isolation or on the radio or as standards and they don't organically fit into the nature of the characters and storytelling.

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/36/590x/secondary/Clint-Eastwood-and-Jean-Seberg-had-an-affair-during-Paint-Your-Wagon-3861497.webp?r=1700677897365

This is also something that was new to me after years and years of being able to recognize greatness or something that works well vs mediocrity or at least something that pales in comparison. For years I had watched musicals without really paying a lot of attention to who the composers and lyricists are and at some point I just started to pay attention. What I noticed was that musicals that I found to be just awful and had zero connection to I would notice the names of Andrew Lloyd Webber and Rodgers and Hammerstein... the musicals that I absolutely love I keep seeing the names Vincente Minnelli and Lerner and Loewe appear. These were names that throughout my junior high, high school, and into my college years have heard of or think I had heard of, but it was around the time of starting college that I really began to make the connections and notice patterns in writing style, musical style, directing style, etc.

Yappers, Paint Your Wagon is a favorite and I don't even care about its flaws because when it works it works so well, as well as any other musical on my list. Shame, shame it didn't make this countdown. I had no illusion of it being anywhere near the top of the list, but I had at least hoped for a placing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jYk5u9vKfA

exiler96

11-23-24, 05:57 PM

There's already one check it out, https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=66301

Thanks. The man came up at #4... and 5th here tonight. Not bad at all...

Holden Pike

11-23-24, 06:09 PM

Paint Your Wagon is my 20th pick and I love it so much, in spite of all its flaws, that I couldn't not have it on my list.

https://youtu.be/_W_g7_KJP_o?si=JX_a3766gd63Cst0

iluv2viddyfilms

11-23-24, 06:13 PM

Glad to see Willy Wonka show up, although it was never really a question of if it would show up, but where. I had Willy Wonka at number 18 on my ballot. I love its creativity, the world Roald Dahl creates and the genius of trying to adapt his books to maintain the spirit and atmosphere of them. Gene Wilder gives a unique and madcap performance that's just iconic and walks that boundary between going too-far and being too eerie, too disturbing, and too shocking for a mainstream "kids" musicals without quite crossing that line. The Tim Burton film, while decent on its own, pales in comparison to the original. Also it's a film that has some great messaging without ever becoming too preachy and some great thematical elements to it with a strong moral core and sadly it's the complete antithesis to where a lot films these days... especially some of the huge Disney blockbusters like the Frozen series and such are headed.

I love Willy Wonka and while it wasn't on my top 10, unlike some of the other entries in the MoFo top 10, I can't argue against Willy Wonka being included among the best.

iluv2viddyfilms

11-23-24, 06:21 PM

https://youtu.be/_W_g7_KJP_o?si=JX_a3766gd63Cst0

What's so hilarious about that is that unlike "Family Guy" where they would just do a quick cut away and it'd be done in under five seconds, "The Simpsons" does an entire and well done two minute sequence, which for a cartoon is kind of unheard of, but that works so well.

I_Wear_Pants

11-23-24, 06:38 PM

Yeah, half the songs are pretty bland, but good Lord does that opening song slap hard.

https://youtu.be/RisL9l8HzmM?si=oC12EzODvA466YfY

My least favorite part of Muppet Treasure Island is how the best part is the very first scene. Shiver My Timbers is awesome and then the rest of it isn't as good. It's still a fine movie of course. It just isn't as good the rest of the way.

SpelingError

11-23-24, 07:22 PM

Willy Wonka is very good, but it didn't make my ballot. It's also been years since I've seen it.

rauldc14

11-23-24, 07:45 PM

I had Wonka at 10! A very fun film!

Takoma11

11-23-24, 08:19 PM

Willy Wonka was not on my list, though it might be if I sat down again having more reflection time.

For me, it was one of those movies that I watched a lot growing up and it sat right at that sweet spot between something I found interesting and something I found upsetting. Wilder is great in it, though I think I can see that better now as an adult.

cricket

11-23-24, 08:48 PM

Some of my ballot is comprised of films that I don't remember well, but rather how I remember my feeling for them. I know I saw Willy Wonka several times as a kid, but I don't remember loving it.

stillmellow

11-23-24, 09:22 PM

Willy Wonka is my #7! I understand how polarizing it can be, since 4 of the songs are from the Oompa Loompas and no one likes Cheer Up Charlie.

But the rest of the songs are solid gold, and Gene Wilder masterfully balances genius, sensitivity, and madness.

And I actually liked both remakes, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and Wonka. Neither are list worthy, but they're all very enjoyable, each in their own way.

Little Ash

11-23-24, 09:35 PM

And I actually liked both remakes, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and Wonka. Neither are list worthy, but they're all very enjoyable, each in their own way.

I was struggling to recall what people meant by the second remake. I had already scrubbed the existence of Wonka from my mind, and it's more of a prequel than a remake AFAIK (never seen).

I_Wear_Pants

11-23-24, 09:37 PM

I didn't actually like Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Granted I watched Burton's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and read the book prior to watching Willy Wonka, so I am sure that has something to do with it. Plus the only times I've liked Gene Wilder are when he's collaborated with Mel Brooks. Otherwise I don't really like him.

I enjoyed Tim Burton's version of the story, to an extent. It's far from perfect itself, although it has some enjoyable scenes. Danny Elfman's music and the pop culture references are the shiny spots.

I've also never been the target demographic, vis I was 16 or 17 when Burton's film came out, and the book was written for 10-year olds, so it wasn't geared for me in the first place.

Thief

11-23-24, 09:45 PM

Willy Wonka is a lot of fun; very colorful and entertaining. But Gene Wilder, man. So much fun to watch this performance that walks a fine line between charming and bizarre. It's really unique. It's not a musical I watch often, but when I do, I thoroughly enjoy it. I had it at #20.

Here's where I stand...

SEEN: 35/96
MY BALLOT: 17/25

1. Moulin Rouge! (#30)
2. Little Shop of Horrors (#18)
3.
4. Once (#25)
5. La La Land (#13)
6. Aladdin (#22)
7. An American in Paris (#42)
8.
9. Cabin in the Sky (#103)
10. The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh (#110)
11. The Lion King (#6)
12. Inside Llewyn Davis (#53)
13. Moana (#68)
14. Sing Street (#40)
15.
16. My Fair Lady (#10)
17. Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street (#66)
18. Chicago (#21)
19. Mary Poppins (#8)
20. Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory (#5)
21. The Band Wagon (#80)
22.
23.
24.
25. Hallelujah (One-pointer)

PHOENIX74

11-23-24, 10:27 PM

5. Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory (1971) - And so Charlie gets stiffed big time in the title stakes as the Hollywood suits get together and declare "the audience doesn't give a hoot about Charlie and won't come if we don't mention Willy Wonka!" That was the least of Roald Dahl's concerns, but it turned into a classic regardless. Of course I grew up loving Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory, but have to admit it's been an age since I actually sat down and watched it from start to finish (I haven't seen the remake or prequel either.) I've seen parts of it so many times in passing though that I'm still very familiar with all of it - what a legend Gene Wilder was. Always Wonka in my eyes. After having said all of that though, this movie has slid down my rankings over the years when it comes to musicals I currently enjoy. That's not me casting aspersions - it's a truly great and beautiful movie - it's just me admitting that it's not a movie I really watch anymore. As such it didn't manage to make my ballot. I have fond memories of it.

Seen : 66/96

My #20 (and where the hell was it? Is it that unpopular?) was Sweet Charity - nearly every song in it a cultural touchstone.

https://i.postimg.cc/X7jFv2wd/sweet-charity.jpg

Whether it's "Big Spender" in the club, watching Shirley MacLaine go nuts in a rich guy's pad singing "If My Friends Could See Me Now" or Sammy Davis Jr. getting down as a religious cult leader belting out "The Rhythm of Life", this is packed with memorable moments that are all in tune with each other. Directed by Bob Fosse and based on a play that in turn was based on Federico Fellini's Nights of Cabiria, it has talent and inspiration in spades. This really needs to develop a bit more of a cult following - critics have reversed course after it recieved unfavourable reviews when it came out, and now see it in a different light. Perhaps that initial mixed reception is what has it struggling to be remembered today, but those who haven't seen it should at least give it a go. I really like it a lot.

gbgoodies

11-24-24, 12:31 AM

So is Mamma Mia! Here We Go Again (2018) not making it😁 I can't believe it;) I did watch that for the countdown. I thought the movie was harmless but insipid, like most sequels are. I did however like the original Mamma Mia and I thought for sure it would make the countdown. I mean I would've bet on it.

I love Mamma Mia!. It was on the lower part of my list, but it doesn't seem to get a lot of love, so I'm not surprised that it didn't make the countdown.

Mamma Mia! Here We Go Again was pretty good, but it wasn't as good as the first movie.

gbgoodies

11-24-24, 12:45 AM

Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory is so much fun to watch. The songs are great, the story is fun, and Gene Wilder is amazing as Willy Wonka. (He was born to play Willy Wonka, just like Robert Preston was born to play Professor Harold Hill in The Music Man.) It was #8 on my list.

I didn't like the remake with Johnny Depp. I tried rewatching it for this countdown to see if it was better than I remembered it, but it was just as bad as the first time I saw it.

I watched the prequel Wonka with Timothée Chalamet for this countdown, and I liked it, but not enough to consider it for my list.

My list so far:
2. The Music Man (1962)
5. Oklahoma! (1955)
8. Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory (1971)
9. 1776 (1972)
12. The Greatest Showman (2017)
13. My Fair Lady (1964)
15. Les Misérables (2012)
16. Oliver! (1968)
17. Anastasia (1997)
18. Yankee Doodle Dandy (1942)
22. Mary Poppins (1964)
24. Fiddler on the Roof (1971)
25. Frozen (2013)

gbgoodies

11-24-24, 12:47 AM

And in a fun coincidence, I'm watching Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory on TV right now. I was flipping channels a little over an hour ago, and it was on TBS. :)

gbgoodies

11-24-24, 12:51 AM

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I use Wonka's flute tone, (the one he uses to call the Oompa Loompas), as the notification tone for my security cameras, so every time someone walks past one of my cameras, I hear that tone. :)

Omnizoa

11-24-24, 02:38 AM

I am having a hard time following your logic.I really don't want to drag this out in this thread, but I'm seeing that this is going to take a lot more work than our back-and-forth has already entailed.

it is natural to be more invested in the survival of the characters we spend the most time with.This. Is. Not. News. I have never once disputed that.

The criticism here is very simple:
If we're concerned about Y's well-being,
because Z might kill and eat them,
then why aren't we concerned about X's well-being,
because Y might kill and eat them?

This is clearly a double standard, and I think it's a complete cop-out to argue that a character cannot be morally judged by virtue of their screentime, let alone the writing which raised the question in the first place.

The Lion King could just as easily have been about a kingdom of animals in the Savannah that's functionally a retelling of Hamlet, WITHOUT Mufasa trying to justify the way of things, or without portraying Timon as visibly uncomfortable with Simba eating certain animals, but not others.

These are value judgments, and by presenting those conclusions to the viewer, it raises questions of whether those conclusions are shared by the animals which naturally flee from them.

the events of the film show us that Mufasa was keeping a balance in the ecosystem so that all of the animals could thrive.You know, Thanos did not exactly win me over with his "eradicate half of all life" plan for the sake of "keeping balance".

Would it shock you to learn that I don't buy that argument from hunters in real life either?

John W Constantine

11-24-24, 03:19 AM

I had Willy Wonka at #16 but having just finished rewatching it should have been much higher. That makes 18 from ballot.

dadgumblah

11-24-24, 05:55 AM

I'm jazzed that Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory made the grade! I figured it would but as we're in the Top 5 you start to wonder a bit...

Anyway, I've seen only the Tim Burton film as far as other Wonka films and enjoyed as I do most all Burton films but I didn't even bother to compare it to this original. Gene Wilder is Wonka! I love every moment in the movie but Wilder's scenes are magic. From his sarcastic way of saying things to the kids like"Stop. Don't. Come back", to his "crazy" manner while going through the tunnel in the boat, to his rude then happy bait-and-switch near the end, he totally owns the movie. That said, I also love the scenes with Charlie at home, with both sets of grandparents crazily sharing the same bed, to Charlie getting the Wonka Bar with the Gold Ticket in it---such joy that both kids and adults can enjoy in a movie. It feels like a Christmas movie to me. I might just have to watch it again before the Big Day! I had it at #15 on my list.

#1. On the Town #93 (list proper)
#2. Holiday Inn #109 (NEAR MISS)
#5. The Blues Brothers #19 (list proper)
#6. Easter Parade #78 (list proper)
#7. Grease #9 (list proper)
#8. Meet Me in St. Louis #33 (list proper)
#9 Yankee Doodle Dandy #32 (list proper)
#10. Gigi #85 (list proper)
#12. Calamity Jane #84 (list proper)
#14. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers #71 (list proper)
#15. Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory #5 (list proper)
#17. Mary Poppins #8 (list proper)
#18. The Muppet Movie #45 (list proper)
#25. Neptune's Daughter (one-pointer)

iluv2viddyfilms

11-24-24, 06:50 AM

I'm jazzed that Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory made the grade! I figured it would but as we're in the Top 5 you start to wonder a bit...

Same, I had Willy Wonka at number 18. I remember it was playing on TV one time when I was around six or seven and I was able to find a blank VHS tape and quickly begin recording it... oh yes, those were the days for anyone over 40. I probably played through that old janky VHS tape at least a dozen times or more in my youth. It's also one of those films that holds up so well and I can watch it any time in one whole setting, start to finish, it's just soooo good. Of course it was going to make my list... no way it couldn't.

Also I knew Willy Wonka was a fan favorite and a lot of people here like it, so I'm not surprised at all it showed up. What I really worried about as we neared the top 10 was My Fair Lady. That was a title I could have seen it going either way, so I was delighted it showed. Sadly though, my second Gene Kelly pick is not likely to show, while my first one surely will. My third place Gene Kelly film, An American in Paris, I had at number 11, so needless to say I'm a big Gene Kelly guy. Glad to also see On the Town show up, which I hadn't seen until just recently because of this countdown as well as Young Girls of Rochefort where he has a supporting role - not really a cameo, but certainly not a starring role.

Now with the Disney cat thing out of the way... I'm sure that the number one spot on our MoFo list will be battled out by a silent movie star transitioning into sound pictures, versus a con man pretending to be a wizard who likes to hide behind curtains. Who will win, hard to say.

Wooley

11-24-24, 01:27 PM

My #20 (and where the hell was it? Is it that unpopular?) was Sweet Charity - nearly every song in it a cultural touchstone.

https://i.postimg.cc/X7jFv2wd/sweet-charity.jpg

Whether it's "Big Spender" in the club, watching Shirley MacLaine go nuts in a rich guy's pad singing "If My Friends Could See Me Now" or Sammy Davis Jr. getting down as a religious cult leader belting out "The Rhythm of Life", this is packed with memorable moments that are all in tune with each other. Directed by Bob Fosse and based on a play that in turn was based on Federico Fellini's Nights of Cabiria, it has talent and inspiration in spades. This really needs to develop a bit more of a cult following - critics have reversed course after it recieved unfavourable reviews when it came out, and now see it in a different light. Perhaps that initial mixed reception is what has it struggling to be remembered today, but those who haven't seen it should at least give it a go. I really like it a lot.

I've been watching the musical numbers for this in my downtime for months. No idea why it's just really amazingly entertaining, I love Fosse's choreography, it's really special.
Plus, "I'm the only person here I've never heard of."

Gideon58

11-24-24, 01:43 PM

LOVE Sweet Charity…Fosse’s choreography is extraordinary

Gideon58

11-24-24, 01:53 PM

stillmellow

11-24-24, 02:25 PM

Didn’t like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory but I did like Wonka

I enjoyed Charlie, but you certainly aren't alone. Moreso than the recent Wonka, it falls into the category of 'no one asked for this or needs this'.

I still enjoyed it because they turned up the strangeness, made the Oompa Loompa songs more interesting (in my opinion), and made Wonka himself more of a flawed antagonist.

But it still doesn't hold a candle to the original, and if there's no clear way to improve on the original, then what are we even doing here? A pre-quel is far more appropriate.

Omnizoa

11-24-24, 02:47 PM

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is one of the worst remakes I think I've ever seen. Did anyone else notice that the crowd that showed up for the start of the tour at the beginning of the movie are still standing there over an hour later?

Or how about that abominable ****ing line after Wonka flatout tells Charlie NO that he can't bring his parents to the factory, up and LEAVES, and then Grandma Georgina says "Things are going to get much bettah!"

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=102868&stc=1&d=1732473563

Grandma, the only difference between now and the start of the movie,
is Wonka's left a GIANT HOLE IN OUR ROOF!

MovieMeditation

11-24-24, 02:48 PM

The Lion King was my #4. One of Disney's absolut best... shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Great film.

Willy Wonka I thought was okay, but honestly didn't really care that much for it.

honeykid

11-24-24, 03:18 PM

Now here is the surprise of the countdown for me. I was sure you were disgusted by anything Disney for some reason.

Not really. I don't like almost all of what I've seen and the popularity of it baffles me. I don't like musicals (which many Disney films are/qualify as) but I don't hate anything Disney because it's Disney. I'm highly unlikely to like a film because it's Disney but, in the same way that I hate musicals (as a genre) but there are musicals I enjoy (and even love in a few cases) I wouldn't say I was disgusted by Disney films. The man himself and the parks, maybe? :D

Hate Paint Your Wagon too

That's how bad it is. Gideon hates it. The music is awful though. :D

Hopefully you feel different about Dirty Dancing because I had it #7. I'm guessing it didn't quite check all the boxes of a MoFo musical but it is a film I remember the family watching when I was a kid. The soundtrack is classic and Swayze dog manages to lip sync a few notes during the finale. If only we could have been treated to some notes while he was spin kicking drunks in Road House it would have a found another spot on my ballot.

Now that would've spoilt an otherwise brilliant film. Dirty Dancing is awful, whether it's a musical or not.

Willy Wonka is ok but I think that's mostly because I loved the book as a child (one of the few fictional books I liked as a kid) so that buys it a lot of patience. That said, some of the songs are good and once we get to the factory it's quite a fun time. I'm not a fan of Gene Wilder (I might like this more if I did?) but he's not so off putting enough to have me turn it off.