View Full Version : The MoFo Top 100 Neo-noir Countdown
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Holden Pike
04-19-24, 12:57 PM
100% 13/13 3:46
CosmicRunaway
04-19-24, 01:23 PM
While we wait for the reveal, have some fun with a simple game:
Neo-Noir by actors (https://www.sporcle.com/games/Lawrence_O_Toole/neo_noir)
I wasted nearly half my time trying to spell the first part of
Mulholland Drive correctly even though I'd recently seen it written correctly in this very thread :facepalm: haha
17lists256pointsMulholland Drive (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/1018-mulholland-drive.html)Director
David Lynch, 2001
Starring
Naomi Watts, Laura Harring, Justin Theroux, Ann Miller
TRAILERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbZJ487oJlY
Mulholland Drive - An amnesiac woman walks out of a car crash and pairs up with a young aspiring actress to discover the mystery of her identity, which leads them through a twisting journey full of weird characters.
NOIR OR NOT? - MULHOLLAND DRIVE ('01) (https://fb.watch/ryldNgyyUa/)
Noir expert Eddie Muller talks about the film, which he calls one of his "Top 5 favorite films of all time"
Ahhh, Mulholland Drive *chef kiss* A film that holds the distinction of having me watch it two or three times literally back-to-back (another film that might make the countdown has that same distinction). Regardless of how you feel or what you think, I don't think many people can deny how mesmerizing and puzzling it is, and I just felt so drawn to that. I've seen it numerous times since and I just love it even more. Here's a review I wrote (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2218613-mulholland_drive.html) after my latest rewatch, but also a bit of it:
I think the way Lynch manages to pull and create emotion out of this web of seemingly unrelated and unexplainable events is simply magical, peaking with that magnificent scene at Club Silencio. It is here that Betty and Rita's movie-like pretensions must come to an end, as they are forced to face the realities of their past; something that they might've tried too hard to hide and yet is crying to come out.
It's an impressive film, my favorite Lynch film, and just one of my favorite films, period. I had it at #9.
SEEN: 65/91
MY BALLOT: 19/25
1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4.
5.
6. Nightcrawler (#21)
7. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
8. Following (#84)
9. Mulholland Drive (#10)
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
11. Thief (#29)
12. Bound (#59)
13. Blow Out (#17)
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17. Drive (#14)
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23. Body Heat (#22)
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.
Holden Pike
04-19-24, 01:36 PM
98640
Mulholland Drive was #4 on the MoFo Top 100 of the Millennium, #4 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 2000s, and #66 on the MoFo Top 100 Refresh.
10. Mulholland Drive
I think the overall fan base for this film is just a bit smaller than many think, so I will take a shot at it not making the top 5...
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!!
https://i.gifer.com/2rwq.gif
Sedai for the win!
Miss Vicky
04-19-24, 01:38 PM
As I said before, I don't like David Lynch's brand of weird, so I didn't like Mulholland Drive. I'm glad to see it show today though because it means the four films I voted for that I still expect to show are even higher.
John W Constantine
04-19-24, 01:38 PM
Every little star.
List facts!
https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-23-2022/gWDOFx.gif
This is David Lynch's third entry in the countdown, after Lost Highway (#55) and Blue Velvet (#13). He also placed Wild at Heart pretty close at #109.
CosmicRunaway
04-19-24, 01:43 PM
After years of not being able to remember whether or not I had actually seen the whole film or just part of it, I finally got around to (re)watching Mulholland Drive for the Countdown. It's a strange, yet compelling film that I can never seem to spell correctly, as evidenced by my post a few minutes ago haha. I even had to double check how to spell it again just now!
I thought I had it in one of those last 5 spots on my list, but apparently I cut it. Fortunately it didn't need those extra few points anyway.
Seen: 50/91
Thursday Next
04-19-24, 01:47 PM
Fargo and No Country For Old Men show up all the time but Miller's Crossing is the noir-est and deserved to beat them here. I had it at #14.
Drive was my #23.
From the near misses, I had John Wick at #22. I was under the impression that Sonatine was ineligible, or I would have had that too.
SpelingError
04-19-24, 01:52 PM
I had Mulholland Drive at #16.
SpelingError
04-19-24, 01:54 PM
6. Miller's Crossing
7. The Big Lebowski
8. Pulp Fiction
10. Le Circle Rouge
13. No Country for Old Men
16. Mulholland Drive
17. The Silence of the Lambs
18. Blow Out
22. Point Blank
23. Alphaville
Mulholland Drive is my #9. Great film.
Seen: 78/91
WHITBISSELL!
04-19-24, 02:04 PM
While we wait for the reveal, have some fun with a simple game:
Neo-Noir by actors (https://www.sporcle.com/games/Lawrence_O_Toole/neo_noir)14 of 13 4:57
I was so blindingly fast that it gave me extra credit. 13 of 13 1:15
Holden Pike
04-19-24, 02:04 PM
I did not have any David Lynch films on my ballot. But one of my no-shows...
98641
Charley Varrick (1973) is a terrific hard-boiled caper film from the 1970s, and for my money easily the best Don Siegel flick from that decade that doesn't star Clint Eastwood. This one stars Walter Matthau as the title character, "The Last of the Independents". That's the tagline that goes along with his crop dusting business, but Varrick has also worked outside the law. He puts together a four-man crew, including his wife, to knock over a small bank in the remote town of Tres Cruces, New Mexico. They do get away with the cash, but two of the four robbers are killed, including his wife, leaving Charley and Herman (Andy Robinson) to split up the loot. When they get it home and open the bags they realize there is a lot of money. Too much money for a small bank. That's because they accidentally hit a bank that was laundering money for the Las Vegas mob. Which means they have worse than Cops and the F.B.I. looking for them, they have ruthless killers. The one who gets assigned to them is one of the most ruthless, a man simply known as Molly (Joe Don Baker). From there it is a race to see if Varrick can stay two steps ahead of the law and one step ahead of the mafia.
98642
If you only know Matthau from the later phase of his career, things like Grumpy Old Men and Dennis the Menace, or as a comedian in the likes of The Bad News Bears and The Odd Couple, while he was certainly one of our finest comedic actors, Matthau had a very long career where he did a little bit of everything, and in the 1970s he got to play in some really fine thrillers including the original Taking of Pelham One Two Three, The Laughing Policeman, and of course Charley Varrick. He is fantastic here as the clever but cautious criminal. In addition to Joe Don Baker - who plays on the all-time great sleazy hit men - and Andy Robinson, the great cast also includes John Vernon, the ever-sexy Sheree North, Woodrow Parfrey, William Schallert, Norman Fell, and Benson Fong. Oh, and another top-notch score from Lalo Schifrin!
I had Charley Varrick as my twenty-third pick, just a few points for a funky '70s favorite I couldn't leave off of my list.
HOLDEN'S BALLOT
4. Night Moves (#40)
5. High & Low (#19)
6. Nightcrawler (#21)
7. The Grifters (#45)
8. One False Move (#73)
9. Blast of Silence (#48)
11. Blow Out (#17)
12. To Live & Die in L.A. (#43)
13. The Naked Kiss (#51)
14. Angel Heart (#31)
15. Shallow Grave (#95)
17. Dead Again (#90)
21. Drive (#14)
22. The Hot Spot (#85)
23. Charley Varrick (DNP)
24. Blue Ruin (#82)
25. Johnny Handsome (DNP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxaqjQWQVAk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf3ngLiFBoA
If you're a fan of Mulholland Drive and like listening to podcasts, I did a special episode of mine a couple of years ago dedicated solely to analyze the Club Silencio scene. Feel free to check it out!
The Movie Loot - Special Episode VI (Mulholland Drive) (https://www.buzzsprout.com/850063/8768663-thief-s-monthly-movie-loot-special-episode-vi-mulholland-drive.mp3?download=true)
https://surrealandcreepy.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/sil2.jpg
My #2 Mulholland Drive (2001).
WHITBISSELL!
04-19-24, 02:08 PM
1 for 1 today but I did not have Mulholland Drive on my ballot.
63 of 91 seen.
Iroquois
04-19-24, 02:13 PM
today, on "how the hell was this not on my list?"...
beelzebubble
04-19-24, 02:13 PM
No gots! I didn’t really care for it.
Miss Vicky
04-19-24, 02:14 PM
While we wait for the reveal, have some fun with a simple game:
Neo-Noir by actors (https://www.sporcle.com/games/Lawrence_O_Toole/neo_noir)
I got 12/13. I would've gotten them all but I took too long to figure out #12 and ran out of time before I could figure out #13.
Citizen Rules
04-19-24, 02:35 PM
Hey guess what??? I voted for that. My #19 Mulholland Drive though I only rated it a 3.5. Didn't love the more nuttier Lynch stuff but dug the rest.
John W Constantine
04-19-24, 02:43 PM
CR going against character. Now it's a countdown party.
While we wait for the reveal, have some fun with a simple game:
Neo-Noir by actors (https://www.sporcle.com/games/Lawrence_O_Toole/neo_noir)
100% 03:39
Holden is too fast. One title somehow vanished from my mind for about 5 seconds and I sat there staring at the screen blankly...
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... MULHOLLAND DRIVE
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/bX5sdpr8Bd7Tidso2tFECo.jpg
RT – 84%, IMDb – 7.9
Roger Ebert said:
"David Lynch has been working toward Mulholland Drive all of his career, and now that he's arrived there I forgive him Wild at Heart and even Lost Highway. At last his experiment doesn't shatter the test tubes. The movie is a surrealist dreamscape in the form of a Hollywood film noir, and the less sense it makes, the more we can't stop watching it." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/mulholland-drive-2001))
Kaila Spencer, from Film Cred, said:
"Mulholland Drive is a prime example of the neo-noir because of its hyper-awareness of the genre’s conventions, taking advantage of them to exaggerate themes of romanticism, betrayal, and regret." (read full review here (https://film-cred.com/mulholland-drive-film-noir-naomi-watts-laura-harring/))
The Gunslinger45 said:
"[David Lynch] films are meant to be rewatched, multiple times if needed to try and get a better understanding of his work. And even though you may not know what exactly is going on, the films are still beautiful to watch. Whether you see this film as some sort of commentary on the Hollywood system, or the comparison of the fantasy and reality of becoming a big star in Tinseltown; the man is certainly unique in his vision and execution." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1052752-mulholland_drive.html))
Harry Lime
04-19-24, 03:12 PM
Well there goes my top 10 predictions. I was way off with this one. Oh well. I had Mulholland Drive at #8. I put it a bit lower on my list and gave a bump to Blue Velvet, to help the David Lynch cause. It's a brilliant enigmatic film that rewards repeat viewings - and I'm due for another.
3. Blue Velvet (1986)
4. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (1976)
5. High and Low (1963)
8. Mulholland Drive (2001)
10. Alphaville (1965)
13. The Conversation (1974)
14. Zodiac (2007)
15. Memories of Murder (2003)
17. Fireworks (1997)
18. Pale Flower (1964)
19. The Grifters (1990)
20. Inherent Vice (2014)
22. The American Friend (1977)
24. Le Cercle Rouge (1970)
25. Série noire (1979) - One pointer
There was a long stretch of time here on the site where my Top 10 favorites screen had the same three films in the top 3 slots as a lock. Mulholland Drive was one of them. I have told the story before, but I might as well recount it here as the film gets its much deserved due.
I used to play this card game back in the 90s/00s, and I was at a big tournament in Boston. Some kid one table over had his laptop up, and he had Mulholland Drive playing on DVD. A judge walked by, saw boobs, and kicked the kid out. After this happened, people at my table asked what movie he had been watching, and someone said Mulholland Drive. Later that week, I was browsing at Blockbuster Video, and there were several copies of the film ready to rent. Having already wasted a good half not picking a film out, I grabbed a copy and off I went.
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/f/fc/images/13761232.0042.107-00000003.png
I went home and watched it with my then girlfriend and man did I hate this movie. I mean, I hated so much it made me angry. What kind of senseless garbage was this? I put the film in its case, drove back to Blockbuster, and told the guy working there that it had to be either the worst film I had ever seen, or close to it. I stomped around the store, picked up something shit like Tomb Raider or the like, and went up to rent it. He said "I will comp you a rental for this one since the other one was so bad." I went home and watched Tomb Raider, and promptly forgot about it for the rest of my life, because it is actually a bad film, and Mulholland Drive isn't.
For the next two days, I could not stop thinking about Mulholland Drive. It was like a little worm in my brain just a crawlin' around like one of the ants in the ear in Blue Velvet. So, after angrily stomping around Blockbuster a couple nights earlier cursing under my breath about how terrible the film was, I did the only sensible thing: I went out and bought a copy of Mulholland Drive.
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/bX5sdpr8Bd7Tidso2tFECo.jpg
I probably watched it 5 times in the next few days; it was the most interesting, absorbing piece of cinema I had ever seen. I spent hours on the internet studying every little detail and scrap of info about the movie and its meaning. I would talk about it with anyone who would listen, I drove my friends crazy, I made people watch it with me, after which they would avoid me for months on end. I gifted a copy to a friend that lived 7 states away, then hounded them for their opinion on the film. I lent it to the upstairs neighbor and three weeks later he moved to Georgia.
I was pretty much obsessed with this film for a good 8 years after I first saw it. When my later-to-be wife and myself went on our first date, we went out to eat and then went back to my place to watch Mulholland Drive. Halfway through the film she asked if I was on any special mediation or perhaps in some sort of program. Surprisingly, we are still married to this day.
Sounds like this film might be at the top of my ballot, eh? Over the past few years, I am kind of cooled on it a bit. I don't watch it anywhere near as often as I used to, and I rarely even mention it these days. I had it at #7 on my ballot.
https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/feature-image-mulholland-drive-explained.jpg
Thursday Next
04-19-24, 05:54 PM
I really feel like I should be rewatch Mulholland Drive.
AWARDS?
https://fordonfilm.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/mulholland-drive-3.jpg?w=696
Mulholland Drive received a lot of nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:
Four (4) Golden Globe Award nominations, including Best Motion Picture
Four (4) Saturn Award nominations, including Best Action/Adventure/Thriller Film
Two (2) BAFTA Film Award nominations, including a win for Best Editing (Mary Sweeney)
Two (2) Cannes Film Festival nominations, including a win for Best Director (Lynch)
One (1) Academy Award nomination for Best Director (David Lynch)
mrblond
04-19-24, 06:53 PM
OK, I start revealing from lower spots on my ballot.
Guilty as Sin (1993) was my one-pointer #25.
Obviously, there is another supporter of this movie since it didn't show among the one-pointers group.
Don Johnson and Rebecca De Mornay in their best years, supported by Jack Warden and directed by Sidney Lumet in a very interesting story. What's More?
I've enjoyed it a lot when it came out in theatres and numerous more times since then.
I've always wondered why this film is so vilified. Otherwise, It could been much higher on my list.
98650
I've always wondered why this film is so vilified.
98650
I think it comes down to people just having a strange aversion to Don Johnson for some reason. I like most of the films I have seen him in, and I thought he did a good job in Miami Vice.
GulfportDoc
04-19-24, 08:20 PM
Yeah, there have been a couple of interesting pairings, which I tried to highlight as the countdown progressed. For example:
Three (3) Tom Ripley film adaptations coming *almost* back-to-back-to-back:
99. The American Friend
96. The Talented Mr. Ripley
94. Purple Noon
...
Thief, not to disrupt the thread, but if you haven't yet seen Ripley, the 2024 8-part series starring Andrew Scott and Dakota Fanning, you must watch it. It's phenomenal.
beelzebubble
04-19-24, 08:38 PM
Thief, not to disrupt the thread, but if you haven't yet seen Ripley, the 2024 8-part series starring Andrew Scott and Dakota Fanning, you must watch it. It's phenomenal.
Thanks for the recommend, Doc.
GulfportDoc
04-19-24, 09:05 PM
Mulholland Drive (2001)
A couple of years ago I finally sat down to watch this picture after avoiding it for 20 years. There were several enjoyable elements, chiefly the superb acting of Naomi Watts in a role that demanded the use of a wide range of her acting chops; but also the production’s obvious technical achievements, such as Lynch’s use of Crayola type colors in his sets, and also the first rate cinematography by Peter Deming. The art and production designers certainly had a work out as well.
The film is basically a lesbian fantasy wrapped in an abstract and often incoherent neo-noir mystery. At times the primitive scenes are morphed into something entirely new with no explanation. The actors played against a dream-like but pretentiously incongruous or muddled narrative made it seem like someone’s graduate film school project. During other passages the action and suspense were very Hitchcockian. Yet at no time did I feel as if I were watching a great motion picture.
Some of the film is very comparable to abstract painting, as it is in other segments of Lynch’s movies: make of it what you will. There is no “right” answer, which allows endless speculation and intellectualization. The story starts as a mystery with the common noir trope of amnesia, and ends with a disquieting thud, followed by a mysterious uttered coda. The film has dream-like quality for sure, but it’s not surrealism. Some find the picture endlessly hip, while others might consider it artsy bunco. I lean toward the latter. It’s likely that Lynch has not revealed its meaning simply because it has no meaning.
The cast was enjoyable, from the brief cameos by Robert Forester and Dan Hedaya, to the smoldering sensuality of Laura Harring (in her best Rita Hayworth impersonation). Naomi Watts, who puts me in mind of a 20th Century Teresa Wright (Shadow of a Doubt), is the keystone of the movie, and she came through in spades. Justin Theroux as the director Adam Kesher was put through the hoops, and provided some of the minimal comedy. It was delightful to see the great Ann Miller as Coco, the landlady, in her last film screen role.
In the final analysis I experienced the film much the same as when listening to a great jazz solo. I enjoy it, notice several outstanding portions, but resist analyzing it any further.
It didn't make my top 25.
Miss Vicky
04-19-24, 09:28 PM
I think it comes down to people just having a strange aversion to Don Johnson for some reason. I like most of the films I have seen him in, and I thought he did a good job in Miami Vice.
I, on the other hand, have a soft spot for Don Johnson thanks to his time on Nash Bridges. I think I'll check out Guilty As Sin.
Are you a fan of Mulholland Drive? Let's see how well you know the film...
Ultimate Mulholland Drive (https://www.sporcle.com/games/vervain3/mulholland-drive)
PHOENIX74
04-19-24, 11:48 PM
10. Mulholland Drive - This one didn't make my list, but oh man, Mulholland Drive is so fun to watch. If I could change the world, one of the first things I'd go for is "more films like Mulholland Drive" - absolutely inscrutable, with surrealism which earns that "surreal" tag because it warps reality into impossible positions, and makes you question everything (and then question your questions.) Only David Lynch could make something like this - and although it was meant to be a television series and feels like there are scenes missing, I don't think it was meant to make any more sense. Is it the dream of a dying woman? Is it the dream of an already dead woman? Perhaps it takes place in hell? (Always a favourite go-to for me and surreal films.) Welcome Naomi Watts to the big time in the U.S. as well - we knew her here in Australia where she started in TV commercials in the 80s as a teenager (there's a famous "dinner with Tom Cruise" one here - I'll post it below), and then soap operas and TV mini series, along with Aussie movies. This was her big break. Not on my ballot, but a great movie.
Seen 66/91
Naomi Watts, missing out on meeting Tom Cruise :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH_Ar2h6Q-U
PHOENIX74
04-20-24, 12:08 AM
While we wait for the reveal, have some fun with a simple game:
Neo-Noir by actors (https://www.sporcle.com/games/Lawrence_O_Toole/neo_noir)
13/13 - but I had a mental blank, and the timer just kept on creeping down until I finally snagged the last one with 0:49 to go! I regret nothing though. (Also, Lucky Number Slevin is known as The Wrong Man here in Oz, so I deserve credit for knowing that at least.)
SpelingError
04-20-24, 12:33 AM
Are you a fan of Mulholland Drive? Let's see how well you know the film...
Ultimate Mulholland Drive (https://www.sporcle.com/games/vervain3/mulholland-drive)
I only got 15/30. It's been some time since I've seen the film though.
stillmellow
04-20-24, 02:14 AM
If you're a fan of Mulholland Drive and like listening to podcasts, I did a special episode of mine a couple of years ago dedicated solely to analyze the Club Silencio scene. Feel free to check it out!
The Movie Loot - Special Episode VI (Mulholland Drive) (https://www.buzzsprout.com/850063/8768663-thief-s-monthly-movie-loot-special-episode-vi-mulholland-drive.mp3?download=true)
https://surrealandcreepy.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/sil2.jpg
I really enjoyed your analysis! Is there a place I can easily find your other podcasts?
stillmellow
04-20-24, 02:30 AM
Mulholland Drive is my #2. It's an extremely haunting, beautiful, and tragic movie. In odd ways, it reminds me of Shakespeare. Mostly two person scenes, filled with tragedy and misunderstanding. So much time and energy is spent unraveling our main character, when it would be so easy to simply dismiss her, as so many characters do.
I can't think of any other movie where a character filled with so many negative qualities is made so sympathetic. What Diane 'feels' is ultimately the only real things in her life (and dreams). Everything else is fake.
Only one neo-noir film surpasses it...
cricket
04-20-24, 10:27 AM
For Lynch, I rate Mulholland Drive only behind The Straight Story and Blue Velvet. It just missed my ballot.
Hey Fredrick
04-20-24, 11:15 AM
Forgot to mention this is my last update but I had Dark City at number 13. I am one of the people who get annoyed with Kiefer Sutherland's hyperventilating but the rest of the movie is so strong I can overlook that.
Drive was number 14 for me. This is based more off of my rating after watching it the first time than anything else. Apparently I REALLY liked it but never watched it again. That's a little weird for me.
Fargo was my number 5. I couldn't get enough of this one after I first watched it but I may have overdone it and I haven't watched it in years. That doesn't take anything away from it though, it's a great pic and if this countdown had happened 20 years ago it would be number 1. Macy was robbed that year at the Academy Awards.
I'm assuming most people here are familiar with how Mulholland Drive came to be, but for anybody that isn't, here's a good read...
Inside the Making of Mulholland Drive, David Lynch's Dark, Freudian Masterpiece (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/02/mulholland-drive-david-lynch-masterpiece)
Conceived as a TV pilot, shelved for a while, repurposed as this bizarre, nightmarish dream-like of a film. It's impressive, to say the least.
I really enjoyed your analysis! Is there a place I can easily find your other podcasts?
Thanks for the kind words! You can look for it on any podcasting app/platform like Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or any other. You can also click the link on my signature. I think it leads you to here (https://tmml.buzzsprout.com).
So... any bets for today?
mrblond
04-20-24, 12:28 PM
Today - L.A. Confidential (1997)
Miss Vicky
04-20-24, 12:30 PM
I'll stick with Blade Runner.
I almost picked Le Samurai yesterday, so I will roll with that today...
Today - L.A. Confidential (1997)
I'll stick with Blade Runner.
I almost picked Le Samurai yesterday, so I will roll with that today...
https://media2.giphy.com/media/cBYfF906td1ZWWgiCY/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952xwn9vajfisueo6fg1f1xuw45h7c6av659w3jkqhi&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
I'm in and out today, so I'm gonna try to post the reveal in a couple of minutes.
23lists288pointsBlood Simple (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/11368-blood-simple.html)Director
Joel and Ethan Coen, 1984
Starring
John Getz, Frances McDormand, Dan Hedaya, Samm-Art Williams
TRAILERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YArfyHgKuzE
Blood Simple - When the owner of a small-town Texas bar discovers that his wife is having an affair with one of his employees, he hires a private investigator to have them killed. However, it all unravels in a chaotic chain of misunderstandings, lies, and mischief.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7HAX8PLIlc
Noir expert Eddie Muller and TCM host Ben Mankiewicz share their thoughts on Blood Simple
Love Blood Simple, and the recent death of M. Emmett Walsh reminded me not only how great the movie is, but how unique is his performance. I have a review written that I will transfer here soon, but I'll just say I had it at #4.
SEEN: 66/92
MY BALLOT: 20/25
1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4. Blood Simple (#9)
5.
6. Nightcrawler (#21)
7. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
8. Following (#84)
9. Mulholland Drive (#10)
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
11. Thief (#29)
12. Bound (#59)
13. Blow Out (#17)
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17. Drive (#14)
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23. Body Heat (#22)
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.
List facts!
https://media.tenor.com/3VITmI68NgsAAAAM/blood-simple-loren-visser.gif
This is the Coen brothers sixth entry in the countdown, after Fargo (#11), No Country for Old Men (#12), Miller's Crossing (#15), The Man Who Wasn't There (#27), and The Big Lebowski (#38).
The 32 point gap between Mulholland Drive and Blood Simple is now the highest in the countdown... so far.
Today - L.A. Confidential (1997)
I'll stick with Blade Runner.
I almost picked Le Samurai yesterday, so I will roll with that today...
https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/icegif-876.gif
Swing and a miss for the three of you :D
Iroquois
04-20-24, 02:05 PM
watched it once and thought it was just okay. considering how many of my favourite coen films are ones i wasn't into the first time around, i obviously owe it another shot.
My #22 Blood Simple (1984).
Harry Lime
04-20-24, 02:25 PM
What a debut from the Coens and out of all of their films that qualified for the countdown, and despite liking Fargo, Lebowski, and No Country more, this was the one I felt belonged the most and put it at #7.
3. Blue Velvet (1986)
4. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (1976)
5. High and Low (1963)
7. Blood Simple (1984)
8. Mulholland Drive (2001)
10. Alphaville (1965)
13. The Conversation (1974)
14. Zodiac (2007)
15. Memories of Murder (2003)
17. Fireworks (1997)
18. Pale Flower (1964)
19. The Grifters (1990)
20. Inherent Vice (2014)
22. The American Friend (1977)
24. Le Cercle Rouge (1970)
25. Série noire (1979) - One pointer
Yeah, it's great that the one Coen's film that more exemplifies neo-noir is the one that got the highest placement so far. Even if I prefer other Coen films, this is the one true neo-noir.
honeykid
04-20-24, 02:51 PM
I hate to say this, but I've never seen either of today's movies:shifty:
Why? I could've spent almost the entireity of both countdowns posting that. :D
I seen Blue Velvet like 40 years ago, does that even count as watching it? I can't remember it so not sure if I should count that as a watch or not?
I hope so, else I've barely seen anything. :D
Like the Noir thread, it's been a while since I last was here and so I've too much to catch up on to note everything. That being said, I'll just let you know the ones I nominated.
I had Jackie Brown at #14, Reservoir Dogs #4, Miller's Crossing #9, Blue Velvet #11 and Blood Simple #17 and the final entry on my list.
I think I'll get 3 or 4 more.
stillmellow
04-20-24, 02:53 PM
My lucky number 13! I'm glad it gets recognition here, as it often gets overshadowed by Coen's other work. I love how a simple crime can quickly become a comedy of errors. These aren't master criminals, but regular bad people caught in extreme circumstances.
The term Blood Simple itself refers to how unfocused and careless people can be when in a heightened state of fear or rage. Such a great movie.
WHITBISSELL!
04-20-24, 03:07 PM
1 for 1 and Blood Simple was my #12 pick.
64 of 92 seen so far.
I liked Blood Simple, but it is not one of my favourite Coen films or one of my favourite neo-noirs, so it didn't make my ballot.
Seen: 79/92
John W Constantine
04-20-24, 03:23 PM
...or how we learned to stop worrying and make a list full of Coen Bros films.
Coens for the win. Not my favorite of theirs, but pretty damn good
Miss Vicky
04-20-24, 04:08 PM
I watched Blood Simple in 2019 for the 20th MoFo Hall of Fame. I liked it, but had pretty much forgotten about it since then and didn't vote for it.
While I ended up placing Miller's Crossing higher, Blood Simple was the first Coen brothers movie I knew would be on my list, the grittiest, most noir movie of their career. I had it at #8.
My List:
3. Miller's Crossing (#15)
4. Memories of Murder (#25)
5. True Romance (#60)
7. Drive (#14)
8. Blood Simple (#9)
9. Nightcrawler (#21)
11. The Friends of Eddie Coyle (#100)
12. Branded to Kill (#71)
13. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
14. Blast of Silence (#48)
16. Sin City (#26)
18. Following (#84)
20. Jackie Brown (#18)
21. Mother (#67)
22. Purple Noon (#94)
My bottom three films won't be making it. As my 1-pointer I had The Man from London, Bela Tarr's arthouse adaptation of Georges Simenon's classic book. It's by no means a perfect movie, but what it does so effectively is take you into this shadowy, hazy world in which a low-income railroad switchman witnesses a crime and finds himself in possession of a suitcase of money. The long, lingering takes and the terrific black and white cinematography just ooze with atmosphere and tension. Obviously, someone else had it on their list, since it wasn't a one-pointer.
Against All Odds was my #24. I kinda just threw this one on. As a remake of Out of the Past it pales in comparison to the original, but nonetheless it has its own merits.
Cop Land was my #23. While Robert De Niro, Harvey Kietel, and the rest of the cast are, to be expected, excellent, it's Sylvester Stallone who really surprises in this one with an unexpectedly nuanced and sensitive performance as the sheriff of the town in which several dirty NYC cops reside.
Citizen Rules
04-20-24, 04:42 PM
Yeah! one from my ballot...I had it at #10
Blood Simple...The ending is both bloody and violent. But not gratuitous. It doesn’t linger over its violence as Tarantino would...
I told you I would Wylde.:p
Citizen Rules
04-20-24, 04:49 PM
I wrote this piece about Blood Simple sometime back:
https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=57943
Blood Simple (1984)
The Coen Brother's rock! They employ such unique artistry in their scene compositions and such lush lighting with their subdued shadows, that just watching Blood Simple is like a wonderful day spent at an art museum. I just sat back and soaked up their visionary film making whilst enjoying their equally inspired soundtrack. Blood Simple is one of those prime examples where the soundtrack is genius in and of itself.
rating_4
cricket
04-20-24, 05:41 PM
Out of Fargo, Lebowski, No Country, and Blood Simple, I'm not sure which is my favorite Coen, but it's only the latter that I had on my ballot for this.
1. Killer Joe (#66)
3. Gone Baby Gone (#64)
4. The Player (#47)
6. The Usual Suspects (#20)
7. Body Heat (#22)
9. Mona Lisa (#78)
10. High and Low (#19)
11. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (#62)
12. Body Double (#69)
14. Blow Out (#17)
15. The Driver (#79)
16. Blood Simple (#9)
17. Night Moves (#40)
19. Drive (#14)
21. Manhunter (#77)
22. Sin City (#26)
23. Blue Velvet (#13)
24. Bound (#59)
SpelingError
04-20-24, 05:56 PM
Blood Simple made the tail end of my ballot at #25. I prefer a few Coen films over it, but it's still really good. Even their second tier is quite strong.
SpelingError
04-20-24, 05:57 PM
6. Miller's Crossing
7. The Big Lebowski
8. Pulp Fiction
10. Le Circle Rouge
13. No Country for Old Men
16. Mulholland Drive
17. The Silence of the Lambs
18. Blow Out
22. Point Blank
23. Alphaville
25. Blood Simple
WHITBISSELL!
04-20-24, 06:57 PM
UPDATED
1. The French Connection (#58)
2. You Were Never Really Here (#50)
3. Get Carter (#49)
4. In the Heat of the Night (#98)
5. Blast of Silence (#48)
6. Won't make it
7. Definitely won't
8. Yes?
9. Thief (#29)
10. Nope
11. Maybe?
12. Blood Simple (#9)
13. Badlands (#103)
14. No. Excellent movie, but no
15. It certainly qualifies but ...
16. Harper (#101)
17. Dark City (#24)
18. One False Move (#73)
19. No Country for Old Men (#12)
20. Nope, no giallo
21. Another good one but no
22. It'd be nice but ...
23. Drive (#14)
24. Point Blank (#72)
25. Collateral (#33)
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... BLOOD SIMPLE
https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/jdG0l3bcpqNrKSWAIkk0vLvKt2Q=/0x15:1280x682/1200x625/media/img/mt/2014/09/bloodsimple04/original.png
RT – 94%, IMDb – 7.5
Roger Ebert said:
"Is the movie fun? Well, that depends on you. It is violent, unrelenting, absurd and fiendishly clever. There is a cliché I never use: 'Not for the squeamish'. But let me put it this way. Blood Simple may make you squeam." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/blood-simple-1985))
David A. Punch, from Medium, said:
"The fundamental reason that Blood Simple remains a seminal neo-noir is because it was born out of the same circumstances that forged the beginnings of film noir itself." (read full review here (https://medium.com/@DavidA.Punch/blood-simple-convention-and-creativity-in-noir-ac184c7999ae))
Jack1 said:
"The writing here feels completely assured for a debut, and indeed the Coen brothers instantly broke into their stride - some directors take time to find their feet and create something worthwhile; here I think they instantly created something marvellous - I may be in a minority with this but I think it's among their best films." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1077798-blood_simple.html))
AWARDS?
https://www.siff.net/images/CINEMA/2023/50%20Years%20of%20SIFF/CIN_SIFF50-BloodSimple_1600x900.jpg
Blood Simple received a couple of nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:
Five (5) Film Independent Spirit Award nominations, including a win for Best Director (Joel Coen)
Two (2) Fantasporto Award nominations, including the Audience Jury Award (Joel)
One (1) Edgar Allan Poe Award nomination for Best Motion Picture
One (1) National Board of Review Award for Top Ten Films
One (1) Sundance Film Festival Grand Juyr Prize (Joel)
Earlier today I posted a link that talked about the circumstances behind the development of Mulholland Drive, but the story of how Blood Simple was conceived and developed might not be far behind. Here is a link where some of the people involved share some stories about that:
How we made Blood Simple (https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/nov/06/how-we-made-blood-simple-coen-brothers-barry-sonnenfeld)
One of the things I find more interesting is how, despite not having a lot of experience, they managed to assemble this "fake" trailer for Blood Simple which they presented to investors to entice them into putting money on the film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPiTQHRDeUM
The trailer features Bruce Campbell, who they had met while Joel worked as an assistant editor on The Evil Dead. The Coens have since maintained a very close relationship with Campbell and The Evil Dead director Sam Raimi.
GulfportDoc
04-20-24, 07:47 PM
Thanks for the recommend, Doc.
I hope you get to see Ripley (2024). It's the best neo-noir series I've ever seen. I mentioned it in the TV forum.
BLOOD SIMPLE
(1984, Coen)
https://i.imgur.com/R4fVkGN.png
"Trust you not to go simple on me and do something stupid. I mean, really stupid. Now, why should I trust you?"
In 1982, brothers Joel and Ethan Coen had an idea. Barely out of college and with almost no experience in filmmaking, they directed a teaser trailer for their idea: a man on his knees, another dragging a shovel menacingly towards him, a bullet-riddled wall. Simple. Then they went door to door, business to business, showing the film to whoever they could. As simple as an Avon salesman. I'm sure many must have thought "why should I trust you?" before giving them money. But eventually, they got $1.5 million, and that was the start of one of the most prolific film careers in Hollywood. And it all started with a simple idea and a simple approach to bring it home.
Blood Simple follows Ray (John Getz), a bartender at a local bar who is having an affair with Abby (Frances McDormand), the wife of his boss, Julian Marty (Dan Hedaya). When he suspects, he hires a private detective (M. Emmett Walsh) to follow the love birds and then kill them. The story is as simple as it's classic; a story of love, betrayal, and murder. But obviously, things don't go as planned, and the simple story ends up becoming a complicated mess of deceit, confusion, and revenge.
The film is damn good. The fact that it was made by two brothers with hardly any experience doing this, on a shoe-string budget is just motherf-uckin' impressive. The film is full of what has made the Coen so popular now. Unique twists, clever dialogue, subtle - and not so subtle - references to other films, dark and deadpan humor; and it all works perfectly here. Seriously, looking at the direction, you wouldn't think this was made by a rookie director. The Coens are raw, but still have a unique eye to move the camera and a meticulous way to set a scene that more "seasoned" directors would dream for.
Plus, in the midst of it all, the film has a perfect cast that knows exactly how to carry this film. Getz and McDormand are not flashy, but the characters aren't supposed to be, and they deliver. However, it is Walsh the one who steals the film as Visser, the scheming private detective that tries to have his cake and eat it too. Every scene with him is a delight. The title of the film comes from a Dashiel Hammett novel in which a lead character is afraid that the escalating violence around him has affected him psychologically, which is what Visser warns his employer about. A simple act of violence will eventually lead to more violence, making it harder to go back.
The Coens had their simple start in 1984. 30+ years, seventeen films and four Academy Awards later, it is undeniable how their career has "escalated". They stand as one of my favorite directors, and I trust them to fully mess with my head any time they want.
Grade: 4
Holden Pike
04-20-24, 09:26 PM
98660
Blood Simple was #92 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1980s.
Holden Pike
04-20-24, 09:40 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_NfFML2ML0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZoEu0wQsdI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4AUV4ca3tc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If6MJUXxwRw
crumbsroom
04-20-24, 09:59 PM
Pretty sure Blood Simple was my number 1.
As it should be.
Coens best film. And better than anything most people could ever do.
Making the top 10 feels right to me.
Holden Pike
04-20-24, 10:14 PM
I can't remember if I typed about it much on MoFo back in the day, but I was at the world premiere screening of the restored version of Blood Simple in Austin, Texas, October 3rd, 1998. It was part of the Austin Heart of Film Festival, which I went to several years in that era.
In addition to being one of the first to see the flick, I also got to meet and talk to Joel & Ethan in the bar of the Driskill Hotel, and I had a brief interaction with M. Emmet Walsh at the very end of the screening. There was a panel before and after the movie with Joel, Ethan, Emmet, and John Getz. Fran McDormand was not able to be there because she was in a play in New York at the time. At the end of the screening after everybody had filed out of the Paramount, I was still standing at the back of the house. Mr. Walsh had gotten separated from the others - went to the bathroom or something - and saw me standing there. I was wearing a sports coat, as is my wont, and when I do I often times get mistaken for staff, or at least somebody who knows what in the heck is going on. Emmet assumed I worked either for the Festival or the theatre. He asked me, "Where is this restaurant where were all going?" I admitted I don't work there so didn't know, but I walked with him out of the theater until we found somebody who legitimately did know what was up. While we were walking I said, "I am a big fan." To which he said thank you. Then I added, "I really loved The Music of Chance." He smiled and said, "No one ever remembers that one." That was about all we got before I handed him to actual staff.
Didn't get to say much to Joel & Ethan directly. I was part of a group of about nine or ten of us attendees. I did get to insert my encyclopedic movie knowledge a couple times, when somebody would be struggling to come up with the name of a movie or a director.
That was one of the appealing things about the Austin Heart of Film Festival, back in the day (have no idea what it may have evolved or devolved into over the decades since I attended), but the VIP guests agreed to hang around and just chat with the attendees, very informally. The best conversation I had was with Paul Schrader and Polly Platt, just me and three others, talking about Taxi Driver. Surreal. Got to interact with lots of folks. Buck Henry was another favorite. Shane Black was awesome. Good times.
As for the "restored" Blood Simple it is one of the few times directors have recut their films years later and it came out a couple minutes shorter. The big thing they did was clean up and remaster the sound and of course got the Four Tops tune "It's the Same Old Song" reinserted. They didn't have the rights for the TV and video versions back in the day, so if you missed the initial theatrical run in 1984 and saw it first on TV or VHS before 1998 you heard "I'm a Believer", both as the song that bartender Meurice chooses on the jukebox and then for the end credits. It wasn't even the Monkees version, but Neil Diamond's (he wrote the song).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZLG9MV5GvQ
ANYway...Blood Simple was not on my ballot.
While we were walking I said, "I am a big fan." To which he said thank you. Then I added, "I really loved The Music of Chance." He smiled and said, "No one ever remembers that one." That was about all we got before I handed him to actual staff.
Hmm, don't think I had ever heard of that one, but after reading the synopsis, I'm intrigued now.
Holden Pike
04-20-24, 10:43 PM
Hmm, don't think I had ever heard of that one, but after reading the synopsis, I'm intrigued now.
That was a sincere comment - I do love The Music of Chance - but also partly strategic. I have interacted with many actors and filmmakers over the years and have found the best chance to actually engage them in conversation is to bring up a project of theirs that they don't get asked about multiple times a day, every day. If I had told M. Emmet I have seen Blade Runner a hundred times or ask him, "You using the whole fist, Doc?", he likely has an automatic response. But I asked him about The Music of Chance and he lit up.
A perfect example is from that same Austin festival a couple years later. After a screening of Shadow of the Vampire I found myself walking back towards the hotel stride for stride with Cary Elwes. If I was the twentieth idiot that day to say, "As you wish" to him, he politely smiles and that is it. Instead, I said, "I really loved Cradle Will Rock". Again, he lit up. I asked what it was like to play John Houseman, had he ever gotten to meet him, and that started a nice conversation about Orson Welles and Tim Robbins that would not have happened by asking about The Princess Bride.
It also helps tremendously if you are actually a fan of the person. I have never gone up to talk to a celebrity just because they are a celebrity.
Free advice. Your mileage may vary.
PHOENIX74
04-21-24, 01:39 AM
9. Blood Simple - This is a really good film that didn't quite make my ballot. I've seen it a couple of times - it's a very heavy, adult, dark-toned movie. A million, trillion miles from The Coen's Raising Arizona (which I think is what they made next), and hazy kind of spoilers here - a really dark, sad ending (thing could have ended worse, but still.) A really brutal neo-noir film with a huge and dangerous idiot for a villain and a couple who would just like to get away from him. Of course, the idiot happens to be Frances McDormand's character's husband. Jealousy should never lead to murder - that's a mite too extreme an action for any emotion you might be feeling. It took me ages to get around to seeing this, but as the Coens became more than famous - legendary - I had to seek it out and watch it. I can see why they immediately attracted attention, and five out of their next six films are now classics. Anyway, I don't mind seeing it this high up at all, despite not voting for it.
Seen : 67/92
Those that have seen it often or recently might get a kick out of this game...
Opening Monologue of 'Blood Simple' (https://www.sporcle.com/games/duckiesuccumbs/opening-monologue-of-blood-simple)
Can you get your inner Loren Visser going?
So... what are the bets for today?
Holden Pike
04-21-24, 11:30 AM
I'll guess Memento.
Miss Vicky
04-21-24, 11:32 AM
I'll go with Le Samurai
I'll guess L.A. Confidential (1997).
I'll guess Memento.
I'll go with Le Samurai
I'll guess L.A. Confidential (1997).
Multiple votes here. C'mon, who else wants to roll the dice?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2a/b6/51/2ab651be8f1ce1ef3b37bc5bdb144d1f.gif
25lists308pointsMemento (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/77-memento.html)Director
Christopher Nolan, 2000
Starring
Guy Pearce, Carrie-Anne Moss, Joe Pantoliano, Mark Boone Junior
TRAILERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CV41hoyS8A
Memento - A man with short-term memory loss attempts to track down his wife's murderer with the help of a shady police detective.
NOIR OR NOT? - MEMENTO (2000) (https://fb.watch/rAU43dvRuj/)
Noir expert Eddie Muller shares some brief thoughts on Memento and how noir he perceives it to be.
Big fan of Memento. To this day, it is still my favorite Nolan film. Some great performances, a unique direction, and a twisty and tragic story. Like Mulholland Drive, this is one I'm pretty sure I saw at least twice back-to-back when I rented it. Not sure why I didn't include it on my list, but it would've been pretty high.
SEEN: 67/93
MY BALLOT: 20/25
1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4. Blood Simple (#9)
5.
6. Nightcrawler (#21)
7. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
8. Following (#84)
9. Mulholland Drive (#10)
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
11. Thief (#29)
12. Bound (#59)
13. Blow Out (#17)
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17. Drive (#14)
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23. Body Heat (#22)
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.
List facts!
https://64.media.tumblr.com/46744c0095a526b24c73088dc8110e36/306da6433506084b-93/s540x810/e0d9e08c40b69ac4138438e91baf625c3d12701f.gifv
Memento is Christopher Nolan's third entry in the countdown, after The Dark Knight (#61) and Following (#84).
The 20 point gap between Blood Simple and Memento will be the fifth highest from all the countdown. Yesterday's 32 point gap, will be the fourth.
I'll guess Memento.
Very gooood...
https://c.tenor.com/cZK8lK6_xbIAAAAC/tenor.gif
Memento is a really entertaining and well written film and that's why it was number 16 on my list.
Seen: 80/93
Holden Pike
04-21-24, 12:32 PM
98663
Memento was #17 on the MoFo Top 100 of the Millennium, jumped up to #11 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 2000s, and was #35 on the original MoFo Top 100.
Miss Vicky
04-21-24, 12:35 PM
I've seen Memento a handful of times and have always thought it was a really unique and interesting film, but I've never loved it. I keep thinking that I ought to rewatch it again, but then I remember how much less I've liked other Nolan films on recent rewatches and decide against it. My memory of it was fond enough to give it a vote, but I couldn't justify putting it any higher than 18.
My Ballot:
1. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
2. You Were Never Really Here (#50)
3. The Man From Nowhere (#87)
4. The Departed (#53)
5. The Big Lebowski (#38)
6. Coming Soon
7. True Romance (#60)
8. Zodiac (#30)
9. Coming Soon
10. Won't Show
11. Drive (#14)
12. Shutter Island (#86)
13. The Nice Guys (#39)
14. Inherent Vice (#41)
15. Gone Girl (#34)
16. Pulp Fiction (#37)
17. Killer Joe (#66)
18. Memento (#8)
19. Coming Soon
20. Won't Show
21. Dark City (#24)
22. Nightcrawler (#21)
23. Won't Show
24. Won't Show
25. Won't Show
John W Constantine
04-21-24, 12:42 PM
Memento is my #9. A little surprised it made it this far up. A simpler Nolan for simpler times.
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... MEMENTO
https://i.imgur.com/njMd8V4.jpg
RT – 94%, IMDb – 8.4
Roger Ebert said:
"The movie is more like a poignant exercise, in which Leonard's residual code of honor pushes him through a fog of amnesia toward what he feels is his moral duty. The movie doesn't supply the usual payoff of a thriller (how can it?), but it's uncanny in evoking a state of mind. Maybe telling it backward is Nolan's way of forcing us to identify with the hero. Hey, we all just got here." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/memento-2001))
UK Essays said:
"Memento is one movie which typifies the 'film noir' genre in that it has numerous elements which categorically makes it as one. Primarily, the existence of a lonely, confused and troubled protagonist is there. Add to this the other elements like the black-and-white scenes, the struggle, the seemingly bleak situations, the crimes perpetrated, the underground investigations, the voice-overs of the lead character, evil, paranoia and deception among other things." (read full review here (https://www.ukessays.com/essays/film-studies/film-noir-elements-in-the-movie-memento-film-studies-essay.php))
Pelicula Pelican said:
"Elements of the classic noir style, such as low key lighting, flashbacks and the usage of voice overs are present within this film, but that style is also integrated with a more modern look and feel to run consistently with the main themes this film is trying to convey. One of these themes is of course memory and unlike other film noirs, the audience is forced to question the subjectivity of Leonard’s thoughts, because of his memory loss." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1541386-memento.html))
Memento is my #9. A little surprised it made it this far up. A simpler Nolan for simpler times.
I certainly wish he would go back to a small scale project like this.
Harry Lime
04-21-24, 12:57 PM
Memento is a good movie. Maybe Nolan's best. It's been a very long time since I last watched. I wonder how it would hold up on a rewatch.
CosmicRunaway
04-21-24, 02:02 PM
https://64.media.tumblr.com/e2870b5793747693013bab6fe506c39b/1e158249d2be4ceb-79/s540x810/7b4ed9131d3515845636eba1bfe070c1bd1eff5f.gifv
My List: 15
01.
02. Blade Runner 2049 (2017) - #44
03. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005) - #42
04. John Wick (2014) - DNP
05. Blue Ruin (2013) - #82
06. Mother (2009) - #67
07. Dark City (1998) - #24
08. Strange Days (1995) - #65
09.
10. The Man from Nowhere (2010) - #87
11.
12. Reservoir Dogs (1992) - #16
13.
14. Angel Heart (1987) - #31
15. Infernal Affairs (2002) - #91
16. Memento (2000) - #8
17. Memories of Murder (2003) - #25
18.
19.
20. The Usual Suspects (1995) - #20
21. Oldboy (2003) - #52
22.
23. Nightcrawler (2014) - #21
24.
25. The Chaser (2008) - DNP 1-pointer
Seen: 51/93
That bit about Memento being the only Nolan film I liked when it was new and still like now is not exactly true anymore, because I really liked Tenet and haven't changed my mind on that yet, so that makes Memento one of two Nolan films that I haven't changed my mind on (one way or the other). It was on my list at #16.
https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=49297
Memento (2000)
Directed By: Christopher Nolan
Starring: Guy Pearce, Joe Pantoliano, Carrie-Anne Moss
With its complex narrative structure, Memento keeps the audience on the same page as its lead character, preventing viewers from having more information than Lenny does in any given scene. While it may initially be disorienting, the order of events quickly becomes more evident, since the colour sequences overlap slightly, allowing the puzzle pieces to more easily fall into place. Since many recent movies tend to over explain things, it's refreshing to revisit a film that is willing to put some faith in its audience.
Memento is actually the only Christopher Nolan film that I liked when it was new, and still enjoy today. I hadn't seen the film in maybe ten years or so, and the last time I watched it, I decided to check out the chronological edit. The film definitely loses most of its impact without the intertwining forward and reverse time sequences, since the dramatic reveal takes place halfway through the film when viewed this way. It's really just a novelty for fans of the original timeline who are curious to see how the story unfolds when it is divorced from Lenny's perspective.
The film doesn't work as well outside of his limited view, because that altered perception is what made Memento great. The performances certainly help sell the story as well, but the editing is what connects viewers to Lenny's state of mind, and allows the audience to actively participate in piecing together the mystery. I don't really have anything else to say about the film, since I tend to avoid spoilers in my write-ups, and even bringing up some of the film's central themes could ruin certain elements of the story. I did briefly consider reordering the paragraphs here, but I don't think my reviews are typically structured enough that a reversal would even be noticeable.
I still haven't seen Blood Simple, but I've seen Memento a number of times over the years. It's not a favourite like it used to be, but I still regard it quite fondly. The last time I saw it was when it was nominated for the Second Chance Hall of Fame, and this is what I wrote at the time:
Catching up with the weekend reveals:
Blood Simple was on my list at #14. A gritty, dark neo-noir that is another one I think perfectly encapsulates the style. I have a had a couple of friends tell me they sort of checked out while watching it, and that it drags in places. It is a slow burn, but has never really felt like a drag to me. This came came to mind pretty quickly as I complied my ballot, and I new I had to find a slot for it.
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMGRlMDc5ZTUtMjkyOC00OWFlLTgzYTAtZjA2MjczZTFiZjc0XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjUyNDk2ODc@._V1_.jpg
Memento didn't quite make my ballot, and would probably land somewhere up around #35 or so. I liked it quite a bit when I first saw it, but perhaps not as much these days. I find it to be a good but not great film. I am not a huge Carrie Ann Moss fan, and she just sort of rubs me the wrong way.
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/KHgstQr9kCyHi3uvy4Vi4P-1200-80.jpg
stillmellow
04-21-24, 02:19 PM
Memento is my #12! Always loved this film, but I'm going to be the odd one out and say I like it better in timeline order (opening credits still at the beginning). It makes our hero a lot more sympathetic, when you fully understand him. In regular order it relies a little too much on twists.i prefer clear emotional stories, over gimmicks and twists.
It's still great either way, and yes, I'd say it's Nolan's best film.
SpelingError
04-21-24, 02:44 PM
Memento was #12 on my ballot. Not sure Nolan will ever be able to top it.
SpelingError
04-21-24, 02:45 PM
6. Miller's Crossing
7. The Big Lebowski
8. Pulp Fiction
10. Le Circle Rouge
12. Memento
13. No Country for Old Men
16. Mulholland Drive
17. The Silence of the Lambs
18. Blow Out
22. Point Blank
23. Alphaville
25. Blood Simple
Citizen Rules
04-21-24, 03:04 PM
Sorry everyone, not a fan of Memento or Nolan...but it still deserves a spot on a neo noir countdown, so congrats...I guess:p:)
Memento is #9 on my ballot. It's the first (and only) movie I watched six or seven times in one weekend, which I don't think is a bad thing at all. Did I do that so I could fully understand it? Well, probably.
It is still my favorite Nolan movie. Besides Insomnia and Dunkirk, I can take or leave the rest of his work (I still haven't seen Oppenheimer). I think he makes better movies when he has fewer resources at his disposal.
cricket
04-21-24, 04:14 PM
Have always been a fan of Memento but I don't view it as a favorite.
Back when I thought more highly of Nolan. I had Memento at #17.
My List:
3. Miller's Crossing (#15)
4. Memories of Murder (#25)
5. True Romance (#60)
7. Drive (#14)
8. Blood Simple (#9)
9. Nightcrawler (#21)
11. The Friends of Eddie Coyle (#100)
12. Branded to Kill (#71)
13. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
14. Blast of Silence (#48)
16. Sin City (#26)
17. Memento (#8)
18. Following (#84)
20. Jackie Brown (#18)
21. Mother (#67)
22. Purple Noon (#94)
23. Cop Land (DNP)
24. Against All Odds (DNP)
25. The Man from London (DNP)
WHITBISSELL!
04-21-24, 05:04 PM
1 for 1 today. Haven't seen Memento in ages but I remember liking it's Byzantine plot and appreciated Nolan's faith in his audience being able to follow along. It didn't make my ballot though.
65 of 93 seen so far.
I have Blood Simple as tied for my No.2 Coen Bros. after a recent re-watch.
It made every cut I made to my list before I missed the deadline and I think I had it Top-5.
AWARDS?
https://i.imgur.com/HGEpXjz.png
Memento received a lot of nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:
Four (4) Satellite Award nominations, including Best Actor (Guy Pearce)
Four (4) Deauville Film Festival nominations, including the Jury Special Prize
Two (2) Academy Award nominations, including Best Original Screenplay (Christopher and Jonathan Nolan)
One (1) Golden Globe Award nomination for Best Screenplay
GulfportDoc
04-21-24, 09:09 PM
Memento is a stunningly good film with a freshly innovative story for the year 2000. Guy Pearce's Leonard Shelby is one of the best performances of his career. Carrie-Anne Moss turns in a nice portrayal as well. Moss has one of the most recognizable faces in 21st Century film who I can never recall what I've seen her in.
It is #12 on my neo-noir list.
How well do you know Memento? Prove it.
Follow That Line: Memento (https://www.sporcle.com/games/purplekoala/now-where-was-i)
Miss Vicky
04-21-24, 09:58 PM
How well do you know Memento? Prove it.
Follow That Line: Memento (https://www.sporcle.com/games/purplekoala/now-where-was-i)
14/25
It's been ages since I last watched it, so I'm not surprised I did so poorly.
Iroquois
04-21-24, 11:00 PM
my #21. easily one of the first films to come to mind when you process the phrase "neo-noir". can't help but miss when nolan made films like this.
Holden Pike
04-21-24, 11:27 PM
Another one of my no-shows...
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Steven Soderbergh has tapped into the Noir spirit a number of times over his impressive filmography. His fourth feature was The Underneath (1995), a remake of Siodmak's classic Noir Criss Cross (1949). The director has pretty well publicaly disowned it, but I like it quite a bit. His Elmore Leonard adaptation Out of Sight (1998) is terriic, with a neat crossover with Tarantino's Jackie Brown (#18) as both have Michael Keaton playing ATF Agent Ray Nicolette. Logan Lucky (2017) is a dark comedy version of the heist flick, and No Sudden Moves (2021) is a full-on period throwback. But for my money Soderbergh's best foray into the genre so far, and one of the very best Neo Noirs of the 1990s, is The Limey (1999).
Terence Stamp got one of his long career's best roles playing the title character, a hardened criminal we only know by his last name: Wilson. Wilson is a cockney hardass who has spent the more of his life in prison than out of it. During one of his rare bouts of freedom he fathered a daughter. Of course he never had much of a relationship with her, one of the regrets of his life now that he is of advanced age. At the end of his latest nine-year stretch he got word that his daughter, Jenny (Melissa George), had died in a car accident in Los Angeles. He also heard she had taken up with an L.A. bloke named Terry Valentine (Peter Fonda). Age-wise Valentine is a contemporary of Wilson's, and it turns out he's involved with moving some drugs, too. But while he may be a rich ex-Hippie who likes the idea of some quick money and flirting around the edges of darkness, he's not a career ***** disturber like Wilson. Believing Jenny's death may not have been an accident, Wilson becomes the walking embodiment of vengeance to find out.
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In addition to a plumb role for Stamp and cleverly casting Fonda as a mirror of his late '60s and early '70s counterculture roles there is a stellar supporting cast including Lesley Ann Warren as one of Jenny's L.A. friends who puts him on Valentine's scent, Luis Guzmán who becomes a reluctant Sancho Panza to Wilson's Quixote, Barry Newman (another legit '70s screen relic from The Vanishing) as Valentine's right hand man, Bill Duke as a bemused DEA Agent, and the always reliable Nicky Katt as a low-level hit man.
There are so many interesting, clever touches throughout (including using some footage from Ken Loach's Poor Cow to show Stamp in true cinematic flashback) and the conclusion is bittersweet poetry. A literate, non-linear script by Lem Dobbs (#24's Dark City), a dreamlike score by Cliff Martinez, and all colored by Edward Lachman's haunting cinematography creates a beautifully bright and horrible Los Angeles. I had The Limey nineteenth on my ballot. I didn't think it had an honest chance of showing on the collective, but it is too damn brilliant and I love it way too damn much to leave it off of my ballot just because it wasn't gonna make the cut. Hope some of you check it out.
HOLDEN'S BALLOT
4. Night Moves (#40)
5. High & Low (#19)
6. Nightcrawler (#21)
7. The Grifters (#45)
8. One False Move (#73)
9. Blast of Silence (#48)
11. Blow Out (#17)
12. To Live & Die in L.A. (#43)
13. The Naked Kiss (#51)
14. Angel Heart (#31)
15. Shallow Grave (#95)
17. Dead Again (#90)
19. The Limey (DNP)
21. Drive (#14)
22. The Hot Spot (#85)
23. Charley Varrick (DNP)
24. Blue Ruin (#82)
25. Johnny Handsome (DNP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfWPKR21jV8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-Ks8nV8Adg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxeqt6dIziQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8EYqhGM0zU
Harry Lime
04-21-24, 11:33 PM
Yeah I had The Limey on my list too at #16. It's too bad it didn't make it - great film and perfect example of the neo noir genre. I'll second Holden's rec here and it's worth watching, Mofoers.
I think I saw The Limey back in the late 90s, but haven't seen it since. It's surely due for a rewatch.
Harry Lime
04-21-24, 11:40 PM
Yeah I had The Limey on my list too at #16. It's too bad it didn't make it - great film and perfect example of the neo noir genre. I'll second Holden's rec here and it's worth watching, Mofoers.
And as for Soderbergh, I'm not too much of a fan of any of his later films that I've seen but he had an excellent run there with Out of Sight, The Limey, and Traffic.
stillmellow
04-22-24, 12:36 AM
How well do you know Memento? Prove it.
Follow That Line: Memento (https://www.sporcle.com/games/purplekoala/now-where-was-i)
24/25
PHOENIX74
04-22-24, 01:34 AM
8. Memento - This is fantastic. If Christopher Nolan had of told me "I'm making a film with all of the scenes in reverse order, because it's about a man with no short-term memory", I'd have told him "Chris, that is going to be confusing, too hard to follow and lacking in tension or surprise." Instead, when I first saw Memento at the movies, I felt like running out of the movie theater swinging my jacket above me screaming "I just saw one of the best films I'm ever going to see in my entire life!" That non-linear narrative really works in the film's favour, and the haunting narration plus the darkness which pervades every aspect of this film just adds so much weight to it. Back in 2000, it would have been films like this that would awaken me to the way film noir can get under your skin and get your mind compulsively drawn to it. Apart from Guy Pearce, who looks like he hasn't eaten in 8 months, Carrie-Anne Moss and Joe Pantoliano make for the sketchiest of characters living in the world of a paranoid man hunting a ghost. I love this movie still, and it managed to snag #4 on my neo noir ballot.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen : 68/93
I'd never even heard of : 9/93
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 16/93
Films from my list : 15 + 1
#8 - My #4 - Memento (2000)
#12 - My #10 - No Country For Old Men (2007)
#13 - My #7 - Blue Velvet (1986)
#14 - My #15 - Drive (2011)
#15 - My #6 - Miller's Crossing (1990)
#16 - My #2 - Reservoir Dogs (1992)
#17 - My #22 - Blow Out (1981)
#21 - My #13 - Nightcrawler (2014)
#27 - My #24 - The Man Who Wasn't There (2001)
#28 - My #1 - The Conversation (1974)
#30 - My #23 - Zodiac (2007)
#42 - My #19 - Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005)
#44 - My #21 - Blade Runner 2049 (2017)
#52 - My #11 - Oldboy (2003)
#81 - My #17 - Brick (2005)
#106 - My #16 - Before the Devil Knows You're Dead (2007)
John-Connor
04-22-24, 04:45 AM
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I watched the The Limey during this countdown, after Holden posted a .gif from it. Which turned out to be a .gif from my favorite scene of the film, with Bill Duke and Terence Stamp. Had I seen it sooner I might have considered it for my ballot, excellent neo-noir, really enjoyed it.
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Instead I went with another neo-noir starring Terence Stamp. The Hit from 1984 directed by Stephen Frears who also did The Grifters. About a couple of hitmen (Tim Roth and John Hurt) on a hit job/road trip along the Spanish countryside accompanied by cool theme music from Roger Waters and Eric Clapton. It was number fifteen on my ballot.
25. Mirage (1965)
22. In the Heat of the Night (1967)
18. High and Low (1963)
17. The Driver (1978)
15. The Hit (1984)
14. Collateral (2004)
11. Get Carter (1971)
08. The Hot Spot (1990)
06. Thief (1981)
05. Blow Out (1981)
04. One False Move (1992)
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Holden Pike
04-22-24, 06:46 AM
Stephen Frears' The Hit is a good one, an underrated/underseen '80s Neo Noir. Though his best Noir definitely made the countdown (The Grifters, #45).
In my write up of The Limey I forgot to mention that this stylized revenge odyssey through Los Angeles is also funny. Bill Duke gets a nice laugh in this scene...
https://youtu.be/VKcpoyC6RMA?si=azCdeTwJXAUB_ofz
Holden Pike
04-22-24, 09:17 AM
Speaking of Los Angeles, for today's reveal I'll guess it's Bob Altman's turn: The Long Goodbye.
Hard to argue with Altman today, so I think that will be the pick - that is also my guess for today, to be clear. Outside chance it's L.A. Confidential, though.
Meanwhile, speaking of L.A. again... I just realized Devil in a Blue Dress didn't make the countdown, wasn't a one-pointer, and wasn't on the bubble. Wow! Devil in a Blue Dress was easily one of my wife's and my favorites as we watched films up to the deadline.
Miss Vicky
04-22-24, 10:41 AM
I'm sticking with Le Samurai as my guess for today.
Holden Pike
04-22-24, 10:47 AM
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Instead I went with another neo-noir starring Terence Stamp. The Hit from 1984 directed by Stephen Frears who also did The Grifters. About a couple of hitmen (Tim Roth and John Hurt) on a hit job/road trip along the Spanish countryside accompanied by cool theme music from Roger Waters and Eric Clapton. It was number fifteen on my ballot.
Tim Roth has a great story about totaling a car during the making of The Hit. Jump to about the 5:15 spot in the video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=driYdJ95HHs&t=386s
Tim Roth has a great story about totaling a car during the making of The Hit. Jump to about the 5:15 spot in the video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=driYdJ95HHs&t=386s
This was a great listen. Thanks for sharing.
Speaking of Los Angeles, for today's reveal I'll guess it's Bob Altman's turn: The Long Goodbye.
Hard to argue with Altman today, so I think that will be the pick - that is also my guess for today, to be clear. Outside chance it's L.A. Confidential, though.
I'm sticking with Le Samurai as my guess for today.
Seven at #7?
Anybody else?
https://y.yarn.co/2f367d0c-0e56-4d28-9bff-c3ebcea1624b_text.gif
Meanwhile, speaking of L.A. again... I just realized Devil in a Blue Dress didn't make the countdown, wasn't a one-pointer, and wasn't on the bubble. Wow! Devil in a Blue Dress was easily one of my wife's and my favorites as we watched films up to the deadline.
I remember seeing this back in the 90s and liking it, but it's been too long. Should probably rewatch it.
Holden Pike
04-22-24, 11:04 AM
Devil in a Blue Dress is terrific, especially Don Cheadle's supporting character Mouse. Wish it had been successful enough, financially, that the same team had adapted a couple more of the novels, but alas. Directed by Carl Franklin (One False Move). I kind of expected it to show on the countdown but the 1990s was a very rich time for Neo Noir and some were bound to get lost in the shuffle, unfortunately, including another title from my Top Ten.
Devil in a Blue Dress is terrific, especially Don Cheadle's supporting character Mouse. Wish it had been successful enough, financially, that the same team had adapted a couple more of the novels, but alas. Directed by Carl Franklin (One False Move). I kind of expected it to show on the countdown but the 1990s was a very rich time for Neo Noir and some were bound to get lost in the shuffle, unfortunately, including another title from my Top Ten.
With Cheadle and frippin' Denzel Washington, coupled with it totally nailing the era and noir style, I figured it would easily make Top 50.
Holden Pike
04-22-24, 11:11 AM
Yeah, I thought if nothing else the star power of Denzel would get it some MoFo votes. But...not enough.
Thursday Next
04-22-24, 11:12 AM
Anybody else?
https://y.yarn.co/2f367d0c-0e56-4d28-9bff-c3ebcea1624b_text.gif
Seven at #7?
I love the way the photo from the Memento poster looks with that setup, like it's just another item on the blotter.
Anyway, carry on. ;) Oh and yeah, great film. 'Member when Nolan hadn't gotten popular enough to be reflexively hated? Okay, that was a little trolly. I'll leave now.
that was a little trolly
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(I know that's not how it's spelled. It's a silly joke.)
Got caught up with stuff at work. Will post reveal in a couple of minutes.
18lists310pointsLe Samouraï (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/5511-le-samouraï.html)Director
Jean-Pierre Melville, 1967
Starring
Alain Delon, François Périer, Nathalie Delon, Cathy Rosier
TRAILERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs0XYssIlbo
Le Samouraï - After a professional hitman is seen by a woman during a job, he has to go on the run from the police as well as those that ordered the murder.
NOIR OR NOT? - LE SAMOURAI ('67) (https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=754852831371593)
Noir expert Eddie Muller shares some brief thoughts on Le Samouraï.
This is one that I discovered recently and fell in love with its style. Here is a bit of what I wrote back then, and my full review (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2423143-le_samoura.html):
This film came highly recommended by many, and you can easily understand why. It is stylish as hell, and Costello is cool as ice. But in addition to that, Melville manages to create a very solid atmosphere of tension, despite the simplicity of the story. As we follow Jef, and we see the machinations around him, we can't help but root for him.
I respect how lean and simple it is, even if I wanted a bit more here and there. But still, love how cool it is. I had it at #15.
SEEN: 68/94
MY BALLOT: 21/25
1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4. Blood Simple (#9)
5.
6. Nightcrawler (#21)
7. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
8. Following (#84)
9. Mulholland Drive (#10)
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
11. Thief (#29)
12. Bound (#59)
13. Blow Out (#17)
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15. Le SamouraÏ (#7)
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17. Drive (#14)
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23. Body Heat (#22)
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.
I'm sticking with Le Samurai as my guess for today.
Finally! :D
https://i.gifer.com/origin/2f/2f56bad4bf616661f115a6d412150a66.gif
Miss Vicky
04-22-24, 02:34 PM
Ha, my random guessing paid off and I got it right.
I watched Le Samurai for a HOF. It looks great (and so does Alain Delon) but it's not my kind of movie. No vote.
Holden Pike
04-22-24, 02:37 PM
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Le Samouraï was #24 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1960s and #31 on the MoFo Top 100 Foreign Films.
List facts!
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/62/d7/99/62d79907ad0986f58f9197ced1745b58.gif
Le Samouraï is Jean-Pierre Melville's second entry in the countdown, after Le Cercle Rouge (#23). However, he also placed Bob Le Flambeur in the Film Noir countdown.
Le Samouraï is one of only three (3) films in the countdown to have a perfect RT score of 100%, along with Branded to Kill (#71) and The Man from Nowhere (#87).
Le Samourai was my 3. Just the coolest. Lets not talk about it, lets having a viewing party instead.
I like Le Samourai, but it didn't make my ballot.
Seen: 81/94
Le Samourai was my 3. Just the coolest. Lets not talk about it, lets having a viewing party instead.
I guess I have to attend, as I have never seen it.
*Hangs head in shame*
John W Constantine
04-22-24, 03:07 PM
Le Samourai landed at #19 but again, could be higher. Probably needs a revisit, but Melville is always an easy sell for me.
Holden Pike
04-22-24, 03:18 PM
I admire Le Samouraï, undoubtedly one of the coolest looking Noirs ever, but it isn’t even in my Top Three of Jean-Pierre Melville’s filmography, so no vote from me though I respect its inevitably high placement here. Another one of my Neo No Shows…
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I discovered The Yakuza (1974) a little late, for me, as I waited until I could find a letterboxed LaserDisc for my first viewing. It was worth the wait. The immortal Robert Mitchum stars in what was, for me, his last great lead role, the year after he made The Friends of Eddie Coyle (#100) and decades after he tore up the screen in the likes of Out of the Past, Night of the Hunter, and Cape Fear. Here he plays Harry Kilmer, a World War II Veteran who recently retired as a private dick. An old war buddy, George Tanner (Brian Keith) asks to call in a big favor. He has been doing business in modern Japan and has run afoul of the Yakuza in a gun deal, and now they have kidnapped his adult daughter. Tanner asks Kilmer to go back to Tokyo, where he hasn’t been since his days as an MP during the initial post-War occupation, to help negotiate her release. But Kilmer left more than memories behind, he was madly in love with a woman he had saved, Eiko (Keiko Kishi), who he wished to marry. But her brother Ken (Ken Takakura, known to Neo Noir fans from Ridley Scott’s Black Rain) forbid their union and Harry reluctantly returned to the States. He agrees to the job with Tanner’s bodyguard Dusty (Richard Jordan) along for added muscle, if needed.
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Once back in Japan all of those old feelings are resurrected, just as strong as they were thirtysome years before. Ken is indebted to Kilmer for saving Eiko’s life, so he reluctantly agrees to help as much as he can. Ken was a Yakuza member and left, but his brother Goro (James Shigeta, Mr. Takagi in Die Hard) is still in the organization. Old and new lies are exposed as Harry attempts to negotiate the sins of the past and of the present. There are some terrific bursts of action, both sword and gunplay, but what makes it resonate the most is he lovelorn, world-weary performance by Mitchum who was still a credible man of action on the screen but added such sadness and gravitas to his character.
Directed by Sydney Pollack between The Way We Were and Three Days of the Condor, co-written by Paul Schrader (Taxi Driver) and his brother Leonard with a pass credited to Robert Towne (Chinatown), it is a movie I love that should be much better known than it is. Not enough MoFo love for it to show here, but I hope some of you check it out and maybe one of these days it will bubble to the top of another list where it is eligible. I had it at sweet sixteen on my ballot, good for ten points.
HOLDEN'S BALLOT
4. Night Moves (#40)
5. High & Low (#19)
6. Nightcrawler (#21)
7. The Grifters (#45)
8. One False Move (#73)
9. Blast of Silence (#48)
11. Blow Out (#17)
12. To Live & Die in L.A. (#43)
13. The Naked Kiss (#51)
14. Angel Heart (#31)
15. Shallow Grave (#95)
16. The Yakuza (DNP)
17. Dead Again (#90)
19. The Limey (DNP)
21. Drive (#14)
22. The Hot Spot (#85)
23. Charley Varrick (DNP)
24. Blue Ruin (#82)
25. Johnny Handsome (DNP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVeTVhFcd4o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkoXgH63ZXU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrGidcPDf6M
WHITBISSELL!
04-22-24, 03:40 PM
Two big :up::up: for The Yakuza. And add Charley Varrick in there as well.
WHITBISSELL!
04-22-24, 03:41 PM
I watched Le Samouraï mostly on the strength of SpelingError's unbridled enthusiasm for it. I'm glad I did. It's vibe has been mimicked countless times since, most recently in Fincher's The Killer. But it still stands on it's own and how often can you say that about a 57 year old movie? It unfortunately didn't make my list.
66 of 94 seen so far.
Citizen Rules
04-22-24, 04:07 PM
Le Samouraï was my Number 1 choice on my ballot!
I wrote this about it:
https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=71813
Le Samouraï (1967)
I absolutely loved this film. I was engaged, engrossed and encapsulated by it for its entire run time. Not one false step in this movie. There's nothing I would've changed about it...and rarely do I not find at least some issue with a film...but not here!
Le Samourai is everything I could want in a movie watching experience. I loved it's slow, still approach and it's solid determination. Even it's lack of narrative information was a plus, as watching the events unfold in almost real time was rewarding for me. It was like I was along for the ride and was waiting to see what would befall our unlikely protagonist next. The director skillfully builds sympathy for an otherwise unsavory character and he does this without dipping into the cliche bargain bin of director's tricks. I'm impressed with Melville's film making instincts!
https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=67151
Am I the only one who sees a striking similarity between Le Samourai (1967) and This Gun for Hire (1942) starring Alan Ladd as an emotionless hitman with no friends except his cat. Just look at that photo I used above. No that's not Alain Delon/Jef Costell that's Allan Ladd with the same cold, distant look in his eyes. Both men look remarkable alike. The narrative of both films are very similar, as is the modus operandi for both characters. As far as I know Alan Ladd's portrayal of an emotionless, loner hitman was unique at the time and not a character trope.
rating_5
Hey Fredrick
04-22-24, 04:16 PM
Memento and Blood Simple end up on the countdown just as they did on my list, at # 8 and #9.
I also had The Usual Suspects at #4, Reservoir Dogs at number 11, High and Low 18 and Mulholland Drive at 20.
The only film in my top ten that will not make the list is Payback, my #7, which I think is a rollicking good time.
https://y.yarn.co/1b2ff64f-ba26-4829-a9b8-6ebb106c56e7_text.gif
Harry Lime
04-22-24, 04:27 PM
Le Samourai was so cool that I had to watch it again right after my initial viewing. #6
3. Blue Velvet (1986)
4. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (1976)
5. High and Low (1963)
6. Le Samouraï (1967)
7. Blood Simple (1984)
8. Mulholland Drive (2001)
10. Alphaville (1965)
13. The Conversation (1974)
14. Zodiac (2007)
15. Memories of Murder (2003)
17. Fireworks (1997)
18. Pale Flower (1964)
19. The Grifters (1990)
20. Inherent Vice (2014)
22. The American Friend (1977)
24. Le Cercle Rouge (1970)
25. Série noire (1979) - One pointer
Holden Pike
04-22-24, 04:31 PM
The only film in my top ten that will not make the list is Payback, my #7, which I think is a rollicking good time.
https://y.yarn.co/1b2ff64f-ba26-4829-a9b8-6ebb106c56e7_text.gif
Yeah, I'm a little surprised Payback didn't make it, myself. I didn't vote for it but while Point Blank (#72) is definitely the artsiest and most historically influential of the Westlake "Parker" adaptations and The Outfit (1973) may be the purist's favorite, there is no denying that Payback (1998) is a damn fun flick, easily the most accessible and widely seen of the adaptations. Not sure if Mel Gibson's off-screen antics have so tarnished his image that folks just discounted it or if it is simply that there were so many first-rate Neo Noirs in the 1990s that some of them were inevitably not going to make it? Perhaps the fractured production history and two existing cuts confused the matter a bit, too? Maybe that as a Noir leaning on its darkly comedic moments (especially in the better known theatrical cut) it has simply been supplanted by Shane Black's The Nice Guys and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang that really went for the comedy even more fully?
I definitely figured it would show in the bottom half of the collective list somewhere. Oh, well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN69_DFySJA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEgLdRu27v0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhkCFd0BUDE
mrblond
04-22-24, 04:37 PM
#7. Le Samouraï (1967) was my #5.
One of the titles around which I've built the ballot. It is third Alain Delon on my list (and all they made top 100).
I like very much stylish movies like this one and The Driver and others like these. That's art in any sense.
98691
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... LE SAMOURAÏ
https://i.imgur.com/KLbQTJt.jpg
RT – 100%, IMDb – 8.0
Roger Ebert said:
"Like a painter or a musician, a filmmaker can suggest complete mastery with just a few strokes. Jean-Pierre Melville involves us in the spell of "Le Samourai" (1967) before a word is spoken. He does it with light: a cold light, like dawn on an ugly day. And color: grays and blues. And actions that speak in place of words." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-le-samourai-1967))
Academy Cinemas said:
"An elegantly stylized masterpiece of cool by maverick director Jean‑Pierre Melville, Le SamouraÏ is a razor-sharp cocktail of 1940s American gangster cinema and 1960s French pop culture—with a liberal dose of Japanese lone-warrior mythology." (read full review here (https://www.academycinemas.co.nz/movie/neo-noir-ff-le-samoura-1967))
MovieMeditation said:
"This might be one of the most elegant portrayals of murder excellence I have seen in cinema. Following a hitman with what looks to be a timeless timespan, taking his time with every little detail to make sure it suits his careful routine. As an audience, we continue to tail this individual as he goes through his lethal preparation, which eventually leads to the fatal termination of his top target on his current kill list." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1358374-le_samoura.html))
Re: Payback, I saw it back in the day and although I think I had fun with it, it's not a film that stuck with me enough to revisit.
I had Le Samouraï at #15. Stylish and enthralling, it looks great and oozes cool. And the bit of redemption at the end is perfect.
My List:
3. Miller's Crossing (#15)
4. Memories of Murder (#25)
5. True Romance (#60)
7. Drive (#14)
8. Blood Simple (#9)
9. Nightcrawler (#21)
11. The Friends of Eddie Coyle (#100)
12. Branded to Kill (#71)
13. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
14. Blast of Silence (#48)
15. Le Samouraï (#7)
16. Sin City (#26)
17. Memento (#8)
18. Following (#84)
20. Jackie Brown (#18)
21. Mother (#67)
22. Purple Noon (#94)
23. Cop Land (DNP)
24. Against All Odds (DNP)
25. The Man from London (DNP)
Holden Pike
04-22-24, 05:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZiP5Iq8Ae8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xab1w0Pcs0
Thursday Next
04-22-24, 05:34 PM
Le Samourai was my #7, just one place above Le Cercle Rouge. I waver on which of the two I prefer, but this just felt one place more neo-noir. Looks great, cool and deliberately paced and Alain Delon is my favourite.
beelzebubble
04-22-24, 06:08 PM
Memento was my #19. Blood Simple and Le Samourai are not on my list. I have never seen Le Samourai, but I thought Alain Delon might become the star whose films had the most mentions. I don't remember if anyone is keeping track of that. Blood Simple is the most Noir, Coen movie but it is not my favorite. I like Fargo and No country for Old Men better.
I am going to reveal my #4 which won't be on this list, but it should. Insomnia (1997) starring Stellan Skarsgard. It is a dark neo-noir filmed in relentless daylight. I can not recommend it enough.
https://images.app.goo.gl/W5jvfMAK5TW72bEB8
SpelingError
04-22-24, 06:12 PM
Le Samurai was #1 on my ballot. Here are some things I wrote on it in the past:
This is a fantastic film which deepens upon each subsequent viewing due to how deceptively simple it is. While it's a mystery, it's not one in the typical whodunit sense. It's more so in the sense of requiring the viewer to contemplate and make sense of the main character, Jef Costello. He hardly shows any emotion and he doesn't even speak that much throughout the film. Sometimes he shows bits of subtlety when he's in danger, but that's about it. The quotation at the beginning reveals why he acts that way as he finds solitude in his profession, most likely due to the swift skill he carries it out with. Is he truly alone though? There's only 2 people he interacts with throughout the film. One of them is Jane, a woman he uses as an alibi for his various crimes. He seems to have no sexual desires for her, even at the end when she asks him if there's anything she can do for him. It's clear that he doesn't want to have their relationship expand much further than that. He fully knows what he wants of her and gets it. The only person in the film who's really significant to him is Valerie, a piano player who lies to the police superintendent in order to get him off the hook. Since he's puzzled as to why she lied (she never explains why she did it), it seems like she disrupts the solitude he strives for. Even after she's revealed to be related to someone who wants him dead, he's still unable to bring himself to kill her at the film's dramatic ending. The possibilities as to why he spares her include his difficulty in making sense of her motives and the suggestion that he was romantically interested in her in a way which he didn't even understand. The implications that scene gives to the film makes it one of the most memorable endings I've seen in recent years. Topped with a drab color scheme which helps to make Jef feel more alienated, this is easily a great film.
Re: Le Samourai being style over substance
It seems light on story/characterization at first glance, but this film, as well as Melville's Army of Shadows, has a deeper thematic undercurrent which runs throughout the film. It explores how a hitman's life of solitude is disrupted and challenged by those around him. Throughout the first act, he doesn't say much dialogue, nor does he seem concerned or stressed out about his task. It's assumed he's done the same job multiple times and he has the procedure necessary to complete it with memorized like clockwork. He also doesn't appear to have any meaningful relationships with other people. He seems cold and distant from the men he works for and seems uninterested in pursuing a romantic relationship of any kind with Jane, even though she seems eager to do so. All he wants from her is her alibi. Nothing more. The opening act gives us a sense of what's going to be disrupted.
On the surface level of this disruption, there's the threat of being caught by the police and having the other men he works for turning on him (presumably, this is the first time he encountered these threats to such a significant degree). Valerie threatens his life of solitude the most though. She lies to the police to get him off the hook and is revealed to have ties to his boss, someone who wanted him dead. Since she refuses to answer his questions on why she lied to the police and since little is known about her motives or her status with his boss, it's clear that he's unable to make any sense of her motives and - more importantly - is unable to understand his relationship with her. There's a suggestion that he was romantically interested in her in a way which he didn't understand (in contrast to how he rejected Jane's potential sexual advances in the final act), thus preventing him from killing her at the end.
SpelingError
04-22-24, 06:13 PM
1. Le Samourai
6. Miller's Crossing
7. The Big Lebowski
8. Pulp Fiction
10. Le Circle Rouge
12. Memento
13. No Country for Old Men
16. Mulholland Drive
17. The Silence of the Lambs
18. Blow Out
22. Point Blank
23. Alphaville
25. Blood Simple
cricket
04-22-24, 06:15 PM
I've seen Le Samourai a couple of times and I do like it but something bothers me. I can't remember for sure, but I think it was something like why didn't he just change his clothes.
Thursday Next
04-22-24, 06:16 PM
Would have voted for if eligible:
Operation Hyacinth (2021)
Ok, it's not tagged as neo noir, but it seems just as neo-noir to me as a lot of the films on this list, with plenty of moodily shot noirish locations and a story of conspiracy and betrayal in which the cop protagonist pulls at the edges of a cover-up and falls for his informant. Set in Warsaw in the 80s, the title comes from a real life police operation targeting Poland's gay community. The colour scheme and quiet scenes give me Melville vibes, but there's also a lovely warm glow to certain scenes and I love all the shots through mirrors and windows. I also find the main character's journey of self discovery in terms of his identity and integrity well drawn and touching.
https://occ-0-2794-2219.1.nflxso.net/dnm/api/v6/6AYY37jfdO6hpXcMjf9Yu5cnmO0/AAAABTPtmofPbLmFx_goJdLwb5VYdrt3hEq1Br7tFEEK-k1nvJ1pWKDurr4h4Jj2OYHnrDs_vjz_F8riq3yZV4sDXXyds3igubaaoKF_.jpg?r=46f
SpelingError
04-22-24, 06:19 PM
I've seen Le Samourai a couple of times and I do like it but something bothers me. I can't remember for sure, but I think it was something like why didn't he just change his clothes.
The entire film concerns his sense of professionalism and solitude being disrupted, so I didn't have an issue with that, personally. It makes sense for him.
rauldc14
04-22-24, 06:36 PM
Had Le Samourai at 17.
Harry Lime
04-22-24, 06:52 PM
I am going to reveal my #4 which won't be on this list, but it should. Insomnia (1997) starring Stellan Skarsgard. It is a dark neo-noir filmed in relentless daylight. I can not recommend it enough.
https://images.app.goo.gl/W5jvfMAK5TW72bEB8
Very good film. It's interesting to me that we never got anything close to this level from the director after his debut.
cricket
04-22-24, 07:07 PM
The entire film concerns his sense of professionalism and solitude being disrupted, so I didn't have an issue with that, personally. It makes sense for him.
I guess, but if he ditches the coat he has no problems. It just seems so obvious.
SpelingError
04-22-24, 07:20 PM
I guess, but if he ditches the coat he has no problems. It just seems so obvious.
I don't agree that his problems would've been resolved without his coat. In addition to that, the police bugged his apartment and an assassin (and the other criminals he worked with) was also aware of his whereabouts, so he'd have to ditch all that as well.
In short, I got the sense that he wasn't equipped to deal with what was happening to him.
cricket
04-22-24, 07:51 PM
I don't agree that his problems would've been resolved without his coat. In addition to that, the police bugged his apartment and an assassin (and the other criminals he worked with) was also aware of his whereabouts, so he'd have to ditch all that as well.
In short, I got the sense that he wasn't equipped to deal with what was happening to him.
I'll watch it again at some point. It seems like a small thing to put me off but for whatever reason it did.
98688
The Yakuza was a very last second cut, and while I’ve seen it a couple times, it’s been years. I really should have found room for it.
Little Ash
04-22-24, 10:43 PM
Doing some catch-up since I haven't been active for, like, a week.
13-7
13) Blue Velvet: My #6. I prefer Lynch's more surreal movie (not that this doesn't aspects of it), but those movies often defy genre convention more, and this feels the neo-noir genre more.
12) No Country for Old Men: A top tiered Coen that doesn't really register in my mind as neo-noir. One interesting contrast with westerns since it was mentioned how it wasn't considered a western for the western countdown - the difference between classifying this as a neo-Western as opposed to a modern western (like Tombstone) seems more clear and usually more stark for people to mentally classify as genres. We didn't do that for modern noirs, which I'm not surprised about, just in terms of what people think of when they say neo-noir, since we've got classic film noir, neo-noir (say, Blood Simple), and modern retro/traditional noir (Miller's Crossing or LA Confidential).
11) Fargo: My #9 Another top tiered Coen. When included as a neo-noir, and I stop and think about it, I go, "oh yeah, it does obviously qualify, doesn't it?"). Because of that pause, it did land below Miller's Crossing and Blood Simple which I think of more immediately as "noir".
10) Mulholland Drive: My #16. My favorite David Lynch, but it also kind of falls into the Fargo category where I feel like Blue Velvet and Lost Highway just seem more noir to me.
09) Blood Simple: My #1! Top tiered Coen, even if it's not my favorite Coen, but it is the first movie that jumped to mind that was distinctly neo-noir, as opposed to modern, retro-noir, and it's just so much of what I think I want in a neo-noir.
08) Memento: Seen, not on my ballot. I saw this back in the day when I was still really big on Nolan. Or I should say, this was the first Nolan movie I saw and it left me high on Nolan, waiting to see what he'd do next. The late 90's/early 00's were a crazy time. In all fairness, apart from Nolan's issues with writing women, I suspect this movie would probably still hold up.
07) Le Samurai: My #8. Stone-cold cool. Usually not something that makes a movie work for me, but does it ever here. Branded to Kill was my #8. Both movies with either homages or pure inspiration for Jarmusch's Ghost Dog: Way of the Samurai.
Speaking of Jarmusch, I guess that means I should have considered Ghost Dog, but that would have seem a little gratuitous in repetition. So, instead, I plumbed my memory a bit and decided, Down By Law. I won't lie, it's probably been decades now and well overdue for a rewatch, but I just have such fond memories of the movie.
Decades later, this is still stuck in my head. (My #24)
https://youtu.be/zyvZUxnIC3k?si=-SHfCxo6rKBduH2D
Any movie where I don't want to murder Benigni is probably a low-key masterpiece by that virtue alone.
Current Ballot
01. (#09) Blood Simple (1984)
02.
03. (#55) Lost Highway (1997)
04. (#54) Pale Flower (1964)
05. (#15) Miller's Crossing (1990)
06. (#13) Blue Velvet (1986)
07. (#71) Branded to Kill (1967)
08. (#07) Le Samouraï (1967)
09. (#11) Fargo (1996)
10.
11. (#27) The Man Who Wasn't There (2001)
12.
13. (#72) Point Blank (1967)
14.
15. (#23) Le Cercle Rouge (1970)
16. (#10) Mulholland Drive (2001)
17.
18.
19. (#41) Inherent Vice (2014)
20.
21.
22.
23. (#76) Under the Silver Lake (2018)
24. (###) Down by Law (1986)
25.
AWARDS?
https://i0.wp.com/chicagoreader.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/le_samourai-900.jpg
Le Samouraï only received one award nomination for the Turkish Film Critics Association (SIYAD) Award for Best Foreign Film, finishing in 2nd Place.
stillmellow
04-23-24, 01:18 AM
I'm afraid I wasn't as keen on Le Samourai, it didn't make my list. 10 out of 10 for style, but the movie didn't pay off for me in the way I hoped. The characters and story didn't seem that great. Just didn't click with me.
CosmicRunaway
04-23-24, 03:43 AM
Maybe it's too early, but I'm amused by how the title for Le Samouraï isn't displaying properly (at least for me) and I'm just imaging someone screaming "Le Samouraaaaaaaa". Anyway, it was on my list at #19, and this was what I wrote about the film when it was nominated in the 23rd Hall of Fame:
https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=67187
Le Samouraï (1967)
Directed By: Jean-Pierre Melville
Starring: Alain Delon, François Périer, Nathalie Delon
Le Samouraï is a slow, quiet film with minimal dialogue that's framed and directed so well, it could've gotten away with even more silence. The cinematography is every bit as restrained and patient as it's main character, but so absorbing that something as simple as watching Castello walk down a corridor turns into incredibly compelling cinema. The atmosphere is set perfectly from that very first shot, and the film flows from there just as easily as that smoke fills the darkened room.
The colour palette is incredibly coool and almost monochromatic, since the drained and muted blues and greens practically blend into the greys around them. That apparent coldness is a great reflection of Castello's stoic and detached mannerisms. When watching neo-noirs or anything even remotely noir-adjacent I often find myself longing for the high contrast lighting techniques commonly found in the classics, but the dulled aesthetic was a great choice for this particular film.
The performances were fantastic as well, and despite his minimal number of spoken lines, Alain Delon was quite captivating whenever he was on screen - which thankfully was most of the runtime. It's impressive how much of the film he manages to carry without having anything flashy or spectacular to do. The plot can be interpreted a number of different ways, and I've seen some well-constructed arguments for a variety of philosophical readings, but the real beauty of Le Samouraï is that it works just as well when taken at face value as well.
Seen: 52/94
My List: 16
01.
02. Blade Runner 2049 (2017) - #44
03. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005) - #42
04. John Wick (2014) - DNP
05. Blue Ruin (2013) - #82
06. Mother (2009) - #67
07. Dark City (1998) - #24
08. Strange Days (1995) - #65
09.
10. The Man from Nowhere (2010) - #87
11.
12. Reservoir Dogs (1992) - #16
13.
14. Angel Heart (1987) - #31
15. Infernal Affairs (2002) - #91
16. Memento (2000) - #8
17. Memories of Murder (2003) - #25
18.
19. Le Samouraï (1967) - #7
20. The Usual Suspects (1995) - #20
21. Oldboy (2003) - #52
22.
23. Nightcrawler (2014) - #21
24.
25. The Chaser (2008) - DNP 1-pointer
https://64.media.tumblr.com/07dc1a2af79f45f84285dae6cde59ead/6c91ef8ab22eeca7-44/s540x810/b0a0902c3f5ca6f317ff3f43621965d0e9d6a685.gifv
CosmicRunaway
04-23-24, 03:49 AM
Yeah, I'm a little surprised Payback didn't make it, myself. [...] Not sure if Mel Gibson's off-screen antics have so tarnished his image that folks just discounted it or if it is simply that there were so many first-rate Neo Noirs in the 1990s that some of them were inevitably not going to make it?
I legitimately forgot about Payback, despite owning both cuts on DVD. I definitely would've rewatched it before finalizing my list, and it probably would've been on there somewhere in the bottom half.
Would have voted for if eligible:
Operation Hyacinth (2021)
Ok, it's not tagged as neo noir, but it seems just as neo-noir to me as a lot of the films on this list, with plenty of moodily shot noirish locations and a story of conspiracy and betrayal in which the cop protagonist pulls at the edges of a cover-up and falls for his informant. Set in Warsaw in the 80s, the title comes from a real life police operation targeting Poland's gay community. The colour scheme and quiet scenes give me Melville vibes, but there's also a lovely warm glow to certain scenes and I love all the shots through mirrors and windows. I also find the main character's journey of self discovery in terms of his identity and integrity well drawn and touching.
Adding this to my watchlist now. :up:
Holden Pike
04-23-24, 09:23 AM
I am guessing The Long Goodbye again, for today's reveal. Day late and a dollar short. "It's OK with me."
I'll guess Se7en unless six is afraid of it. Heyo!
I am guessing The Long Goodbye again, for today's reveal. Day late and a dollar short. "It's OK with me."
It wanted to show up yesterday, but instead had to run out to get food for the cockamamie cat...
Holden Pike
04-23-24, 09:37 AM
"Ha-ha. He's got a girl and I've got a cat."
I am guessing The Long Goodbye again, for today's reveal. Day late and a dollar short. "It's OK with me."
I'll guess Se7en unless six is afraid of it. Heyo!
The Long Goodbye
I'm switching back to Blade Runner as my guess for today. Probably wrong, but whatever.
Ok, anybody else?
https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExMHZlYnp2em84bHI0eDNxdThkM2l1ajRiejRzNmJjODNmdmJmNnJhbCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/xT5LMM2mml7Z7QygvK/giphy.gif
Harry Lime
04-23-24, 10:58 AM
Dealer busts looks like you all win again.
Iroquois
04-23-24, 11:06 AM
le samourai was not on my ballot, but it definitely deserves to be top 10 on this list.
Miss Vicky
04-23-24, 11:43 AM
I'm switching back to Blade Runner as my guess for today. Probably wrong, but whatever.
20lists319pointsSe7en (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/807-se7en.html)Director
David Fincher, 1995
Starring
Morgan Freeman, Brad Pitt, Gwyneth Paltrow, R. Lee Ermey
TRAILERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znmZoVkCjpI
Seven - Two detectives, a rookie and a veteran, hunt a serial killer who uses the seven deadly sins as his motives.
List facts!
https://i.gifer.com/7BKY.gif
Seven is David Fincher's fourth entry in the countdown, after Zodiac (#30), Gone Girl (#34), and The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (#83).
With 8.6, Seven is tied for the third highest IMDb ratings, along with The Silence of the Lambs.
Most people that know me, know that Seven is one of my favorite films of all-time. It is a film that I rented back in the mid-90s with a group of friends and it blew us all away. It was a unique experience to witness all our collective jaws on the floor as the last half hour rolled in. It was one of those formative films that showed me that films could be different, could be bleak, dark, and unrelenting. I've seen it a hundred times, I've written about it, recorded about it, so my love for it is well known and well documented. That said, I really didn't see it as neo-noir. As far as I'm concerned, it is a crime thriller, which is why I didn't include it on my list.
SEEN: 69/95
MY BALLOT: 21/25
1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4. Blood Simple (#9)
5.
6. Nightcrawler (#21)
7. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
8. Following (#84)
9. Mulholland Drive (#10)
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
11. Thief (#29)
12. Bound (#59)
13. Blow Out (#17)
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15. Le SamouraÏ (#7)
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17. Drive (#14)
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23. Body Heat (#22)
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.
I'll guess Se7en unless six is afraid of it. Heyo!
You got it!
https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExajNzZXQ4eG5oOXd2bWs0czNlMmY3ZW1nN21vMWhndHBnaHhzMWh6YiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/lnlAifQdenMxW/giphy.gif
Holden Pike
04-23-24, 12:11 PM
98698
SE7EN was #4 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1990s, #24 on the original MoFo Top 100, and #29 on the MoFo Top 100 Refresh.
Iroquois
04-23-24, 12:13 PM
this made it onto a couple of my own top 100s over the years, but it was never in contention for my list.
John W Constantine
04-23-24, 12:15 PM
One spot too high. Didn't think to vote for it.
Se7en is fantastic and was my number 10.
Seen: 82/95
You got it!
https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExajNzZXQ4eG5oOXd2bWs0czNlMmY3ZW1nN21vMWhndHBnaHhzMWh6YiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/lnlAifQdenMxW/giphy.gifWoohoo! This is going to have a happy ending!
Holden Pike
04-23-24, 12:21 PM
On a side note, I am super excited that The Long Goodbye is Top Five!
Miss Vicky
04-23-24, 12:23 PM
I kind of had a feeling Se7en was going to be today's movie, but guessed Blade Runner because I was hoping Se7en would be in the top 5. It's long been a favorite movie of mine and I voted for it at #9.
http://www.angelfire.com/music6/walteregan/MoFoTop100/se7en.gif
My Ballot:
1. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
2. You Were Never Really Here (#50)
3. The Man From Nowhere (#87)
4. The Departed (#53)
5. The Big Lebowski (#38)
6. Coming Soon
7. True Romance (#60)
8. Zodiac (#30)
9. Se7en (#6)
10. Won't Show
11. Drive (#14)
12. Shutter Island (#86)
13. The Nice Guys (#39)
14. Inherent Vice (#41)
15. Gone Girl (#34)
16. Pulp Fiction (#37)
17. Killer Joe (#66)
18. Memento (#8)
19. Coming Soon
20. Won't Show
21. Dark City (#24)
22. Nightcrawler (#21)
23. Won't Show
24. Won't Show
25. Won't Show
Holden Pike
04-23-24, 12:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnj2wucFf5E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPAloq5MCUA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgpdcO7qGbY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsL833zVz-o
WHITBISSELL!
04-23-24, 12:33 PM
https://media1.tenor.com/m/2egbKUxh7jQAAAAC/seven-brad-pitt.gifhttps://i.makeagif.com/media/9-11-2015/IWHOHs.gif
John-Connor
04-23-24, 12:50 PM
98701
98700
SEEN: 89/95
25. Mirage (1965) (DNP)
22. In the Heat of the Night (1967)
20. Le Samouraï (1967)
18. High and Low (1963)
17. The Driver (1978)
15. The Hit (1984) (DNP)
14. Collateral (2004)
12. SE7EN (1995)
11. Get Carter (1971)
08. The Hot Spot (1990)
06. Thief (1981)
05. Blow Out (1981)
04. One False Move (1992)
WHITBISSELL!
04-23-24, 12:55 PM
Watched Se7en when it first came out so I was part of that huge group of viewers who were essentially blown away by it. It was unlike anything I had ever seen before and I'm sure everyone else felt the same way. Films usually lose some of their luster with the passage of time but this is still a squirm inducing masterwork by David Fincher. I don't think I ever considered it for my ballot. It should have been but just got by me.
67 of 95 seen so far.
https://64.media.tumblr.com/a9fdc7dcd48f5b6a6e463155b4f3e0dc/9d350585603d7bd3-dd/s540x810/d12738287ec1909865283c4c18b047d9488791b6.gifv
Se7en was my #4.
My jaw dropped when I read that Thief didn't have this on his list. I knew how much he adored the film, having listened to him rave about it during his podcasts, so I figured he would be the guy that had it at #1. As far as it being neo-noir or not, I think it indisputably is. In fact, I would say it is one of the definitive neos of the 90s. It has all the hallmarks: the trench coat wearing detective in a hat, minimal lighting, long shadows, and a hell scape city which in this case is purposely not named, sometimes looking and feeling like New York, and later when they come out of the city, seemingly morphing into LA. There are even shots of street signs from both New York and LA in the film. This film is absolutely drowning in its noir stylings, from first frame to last.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TQfWTwRbJ4A/maxresdefault.jpg
https://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/39500000/Se7en-Movie-Screencaps-movies-39515904-1920-800.jpg
https://images.kinorium.com/movie/shot/103967/h280_38999845.jpg
Se7en was an easy pick for me, and I really wanted to push it as high as I could, but I couldn't in good conscience put it above any of my top 3 films. I lost count of how many times I have seen this film. It's one of my wife's favorites of all time, and often, she will just pop it on randomly at night and we always watch the entire thing.
On our most recent viewing, we were sitting around chatting with one of my wife's coworkers that had been babysitting our daughter that afternoon. We can home just after our daughter had gone to bed, and we got to talking about films. Se7en randomly came out, and this girl said "Oh...I think I have heard of that film, but I have never seen it." It was fun watching it with someone who knew pretty much nothing about it, watching their reactions to the twists and turns.
Easily deserving of a top 10 spot, so I am glad to see it at #6.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nnYN7IySIt8/VwFaemo2ZkI/AAAAAAACZVA/OIbkFkEODnUivj7m-pAT4ncp1LfESy4Pg/s1600/3.png
CosmicRunaway
04-23-24, 01:08 PM
I had Se7en at #11 - no relation to the convenience store chain. For me, the thing that primarily makes it cross over into noir territory is the atmosphere. The cinematography has that vibe I based my entire list on, and once you add in weary detectives, and the moral decay that's prevalent all throughout the film, it really starts to scream neo-noir - or at least it does to me.
Seen: 53/95
My List: 17
01.
02. Blade Runner 2049 (2017) - #44
03. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005) - #42
04. John Wick (2014) - DNP
05. Blue Ruin (2013) - #82
06. Mother (2009) - #67
07. Dark City (1998) - #24
08. Strange Days (1995) - #65
09.
10. The Man from Nowhere (2010) - #87
11. Se7en (1995) - #6
12. Reservoir Dogs (1992) - #16
13.
14. Angel Heart (1987) - #31
15. Infernal Affairs (2002) - #91
16. Memento (2000) - #8
17. Memories of Murder (2003) - #25
18.
19. Le Samouraï (1967) - #7
20. The Usual Suspects (1995) - #20
21. Oldboy (2003) - #52
22.
23. Nightcrawler (2014) - #21
24.
25. The Chaser (2008) - DNP 1-pointer
https://64.media.tumblr.com/3a33da868df5c408ea73000ce0e9f8ed/aa26e96ecdab32f5-c1/s540x810/156a2c90aab84294eb98b4bc9c4eba8fbe5a681c.gifv
Holden Pike
04-23-24, 01:15 PM
I love SE7EN. Saw it five or six times theatrically when it was originally released and feverishly picked up the Criterion Collection boxed set Laser Disc edition the morning it was released, then spent the rest of the day obsessively pouring over every feature over and over again. Even with all Fincher has accomplished, SE7EN remains near the top of his filmography for me because it is so damn perfect.
That being said, I did not vote for it here. The only title from my ballot’s Top Ten that will not show is one of the first great films that signaled the Neo Noir renaissance that the 1990s were going to bring.
98702
Adapted from pulp legend Jim Thompson’s novel, After Dark, My Sweet (1990) is a tale of a drifter, a punch-drunk ex-boxer Kevin “Kid” Collins (Jason Patric) who has recently escaped from yet another mental institution. Wandering down the desert roads near Palm Springs, CA a woman offers to give him a lift. She is Faye Anderson (Rachel Ward), a beautiful but depressed alcoholic living by herself. She offers Collins a place to stay in her guest house. Then enters “Uncle Bud” (Bruce Dern), a former cop turned ne’er-do-well. He remembers The Kid from his boxing days. He also knows he left the sport after he killed a man in the ring. Turns out Uncle Bud and Faye have been cooking up a little kidnapping scheme, and Collins may be the perfect third person they have been looking for.
The caper, such as it is, involves Collins dressing up as a chauffeur and simply arriving a few minutes early to a local prep school and hoping nobody pays that close attention to the help, then calmly driving off with a boy and ransoming him to his rich family. Like most Thompson stories, the crime itself barely matters. He was a master at writing non-judgmentally from the perspective of damaged, desperate, depraved, lost souls. Director and co-screenwriter James Foley (At Close Range, Glengarry Glen Ross) deftly adapts the book, capturing the tone and the characters perfectly. Jason Patric never quite became a movie star, but this performance as well as Joe Carnahan’s Narc (2002) show what kind of fine work he may have done given more opportunities. Rachel Ward is one of the sexiest actresses of her era, and she too perfectly inhabits this sad woman willing to cross the line who may still have some of her soul in tact. Bruce Dern…well Hell, he was born to play sleazy but charming fellas like Uncle Bud.
98703
Builds to a very satisfying conclusion that is heroic and tragic. Jim Thompson country. Fantastic flick, and a perfect Noir. I couldn’t leave it off my ballot just because it had a small chance of placing.
HOLDEN'S BALLOT
4. Night Moves (#40)
5. High & Low (#19)
6. Nightcrawler (#21)
7. The Grifters (#45)
8. One False Move (#73)
9. Blast of Silence (#48)
10. After Dark, My Sweet (DNP)
11. Blow Out (#17)
12. To Live & Die in L.A. (#43)
13. The Naked Kiss (#51)
14. Angel Heart (#31)
15. Shallow Grave (#95)
16. The Yakuza (DNP)
17. Dead Again (#90)
19. The Limey (DNP)
21. Drive (#14)
22. The Hot Spot (#85)
23. Charley Varrick (DNP)
24. Blue Ruin (#82)
25. Johnny Handsome (DNP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atwuYdjbLpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpMC_mbAWAk
98704
Seven is fantastic, and feels very Noir. I had it at 11.
SpelingError
04-23-24, 01:41 PM
I thought I included Se7en, but it looks like it was a late cut.
Harry Lime
04-23-24, 03:36 PM
Seven is a very good crime thriller. Neo-noir? Maybe. It's close enough and Mofo has spoken and determined it to be so. Besides I've got a couple on my list that are a maybe too.
mrblond
04-23-24, 04:15 PM
Continuing with titles from my ballot that couldn't make it.
The Postman Always Rings Twice (1981) was my #20.
As I've mentioned in the other noir thread, this version of 1981 been a cult for us sometime in the early 90's. Jack Nicholson and Jessica Lange were a dream team for this film.
I know, as a whole there is a negative attitude toward remakes, anyway, I've had a strong belief that this movie can make the range #80-100 of the countdown.
98710
I would be interested to hear people's thought about why Se7en doesn't qualify as neo noir.
Just for reference, here is something Holden just wrote about classic noir in the thread for the other countdown:
"Noir is more correctly a tone and a style than a genre. While many Noirs do have similar elements and plots, what it is really all about is the darkness of the human soul, the helplessness of good when confronted by evil, a cynical refraction of the American Dream."
I think Se7en pretty much nails all of that precisely, while also containing the more surface elements of the world-worn detectives, the shadows, the lighting and the city as labyrinth or hell, as mentioned earlier. So not only does it qualify thematically, but also stylistically and when looking at the parts that make up a sum.
There are many films on this countdown for which i can see arguments either way, but with Se7en, I am having trouble parsing the "not noir" side of the argument.
As a disclaimer, I understand that there is a distinction between classic and neo, in that many consider the classic cycle to be more psychological, with neo being more sociologically driven. Regardless, I think Se7en again qualifies in both spheres here, especially in an analysis of John Doe and more specifically his motivations and reasoning for his sociopathy and personality disorders. Doe's ravings are more of an indictment of the results of the American Dream more so than a direct skewing or refraction of it. What better describes the essence of the neo-noir movement, as that of a darker, more post-modern level of hell (like Dante?) or the further erosion/poisoning of this dream?
Interested to hear people's thoughts...
John W Constantine
04-23-24, 04:32 PM
People want new.
Four Fincher films and I didn't vote for any, even though three of them were considered, Se7en most of all. I knew it would be top ten.
The final two films on my list which did not make the countdown are Antonioni’s Blow-Up, which was certainly inspirational to two other films on the countdown, The Conversation and Blow Out. Maybe it wasn’t labeled neo-noir in the right places, so didn’t get the votes, but it has more than enough noir elements to qualify. And as a bonus, you get really cool footage of The Yardbirds with Jimmy Page and Jeff Beck. I had it at #19.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zeza1xeWKM
My highest rated film not to make it is Jacques Audiard’s Read My Lips (Sur mes lèvres), which I had all the way at #6, despite knowing it had no chance. But who cares. It’d be silly to make a list of films you already know for sure will make the countdown. Audiard is best known for films like A Prophet, Rust and Bone, and his first English-language film The Sisters Brothers, my favorite western of the century.
Carla, who is deaf without the use of her hearing aids, is a sheltered, plain-looking secretary, treated with a certain level of contempt by her co-workers, and when she’s allowed to hire an assistant to help with the workload, she’s hoping for a male, around twenty-five years old. In comes Paul, a crook on parole after serving several years in prison. But he’s a man, and she takes him on, despite his lack of relevant skills. When one of her co-workers pulls a big project out from under her at the last minute so he can get the commission, she asks Paul to steal the file back.
He has his own problems, including owing money to a big mobster, but it’s okay, he can work at the guy's bar until he pays off his debt. Only he has bigger plans, i.e. revenge, and they include making use of Carla’s special talent: her ability to read lips.
I saw this when it came to the theaters back in 2001 and have loved it since, a rather gritty story of these two people who don’t quite fit in, but for different reasons, and while it’s not as polished as Audiard’s later films, it’s all the better for it. I have no regrets having wasted twenty points on this little film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1OUWTAY91Y
My List:
1. Top 5
2. Top 5
3. Miller's Crossing (#15)
4. Memories of Murder (#25)
5. True Romance (#60)
6. Read My Lips (DNP)
7. Drive (#14)
8. Blood Simple (#9)
9. Nightcrawler (#21)
10. Top 5
11. The Friends of Eddie Coyle (#100)
12. Branded to Kill (#71)
13. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
14. Blast of Silence (#48)
15. Le Samouraï (#7)
16. Sin City (#26)
17. Memento (#8)
18. Following (#84)
19. Blow-Up (DNP)
20. Jackie Brown (#18)
21. Mother (#67)
22. Purple Noon (#94)
23. Cop Land (DNP)
24. Against All Odds (DNP)
25. The Man from London (DNP)
crumbsroom
04-23-24, 05:44 PM
I would be interested to hear people's thought about why Se7en doesn't qualify as neo noir.
Just for reference, here is something Holden just wrote about classic noir in the thread for the other countdown:
"Noir is more correctly a tone and a style than a genre. While many Noirs do have similar elements and plots, what it is really all about is the darkness of the human soul, the helplessness of good when confronted by evil, a cynical refraction of the American Dream."
I think Se7en pretty much nails all of that precisely, while also containing the more surface elements of the world-worn detectives, the shadows, the lighting and the city as labyrinth or hell, as mentioned earlier. So not only does it qualify thematically, but also stylistically and when looking at the parts that make up a sum.
There are many films on this countdown for which i can see arguments either way, but with Se7en, I am having trouble parsing the "not noir" side of the argument.
As a disclaimer, I understand that there is a distinction between classic and neo, in that many consider the classic cycle to be more psychological, with neo being more sociologically driven. Regardless, I think Se7en again qualifies in both spheres here, especially in an analysis of John Doe and more specifically his motivations and reasoning for his sociopathy and personality disorders. Doe's ravings are more of an indictment of the results of the American Dream more so than a direct skewing or refraction of it. What better describes the essence of the neo-noir movement, as that of a darker, more post-modern level of hell (like Dante?) or the further erosion/poisoning of this dream?
Interested to hear people's thoughts...
My gut feeling is it has to do with its horror elements and its use of the grotesque. Because I think it pretty much qualifies in any way, and more so than a lot of other ones that are here.
Little Ash
04-23-24, 05:53 PM
I don't have a good answer for why I didn't include Se7en on my ballot other than I haven't watched it since... the late 90s? I think I also had an internal pushback against putting movies from the 90s on my ballot (outside of the Coens, which I've rewatched a good amount in the time since) because of a distrust of my teenage tastes of movies coming out at that time - as opposed to the 70s neo-noirs which just got mentally wiped from my brain.
Though thinking about it now, Se7en should have been a legit contender. Maybe it still wouldn't have made my ballot, but it should have been a legit contender.
beelzebubble
04-23-24, 05:59 PM
https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=98702
I remember this. Rachel Ward's star was on the ascendant then and Jason Patric was someone, who made me young heart flutter. Bruce Dern was Bruce Dern. My favorite Bruce Dern movie is Nebraska though.
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... SEVEN
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5233347fe4b00c95cda9e5d6/1411688739305-QQN2IN2XU3SPVAJBHQ91/image-asset.jpeg
RT – 83%, IMDb – 8.6
Roger Ebert said:
"Seven is well-made in its details, and uncompromising in the way it presents the disturbing details of the crimes. It is certainly not for the young or the sensitive. Good as it is, it misses greatness by not quite finding the right way to end. All of the pieces are in place, all of the characters are in position, and then - I think the way the story ends is too easy. Satisfying, perhaps. But not worthy of what has gone before." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/seven-1995))
Jan Leow, from J's, said:
"Fincher has truly did an outstanding job in bringing across the message and theme of Se7en through the usage of several Film Noir stylistic elements; showing us a meditation on the frightening pervasiveness of evil. A bleak vision of the world we live in." (read full review here (https://oss.adm.ntu.edu.sg/janl0001/influence-of-film-noir-in-modern-films/))
TylerDurden99 said:
"Se7en is it's director's work. Sure, the performances are solid and the screenplay by Andrew Kevin Walker is terrific, but you really have to give Fincher the credit. He has created a nameless city plagued by crime and darkness that is downright scary and terryifying. The shaky camera movements during the scene Mills chases the killer is almost like you're in the movie running with him. Every scene in this film is notable, but the way Fincher films the ending is remarkable and brilliant. It is tense and horrorfying and extremely well-directed. The ending is far and away my favourite moment of this film." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/703252-se7en.html))
I would be interested to hear people's thought about why Se7en doesn't qualify as neo noir.
Just for reference, here is something Holden just wrote about classic noir in the thread for the other countdown:
"Noir is more correctly a tone and a style than a genre. While many Noirs do have similar elements and plots, what it is really all about is the darkness of the human soul, the helplessness of good when confronted by evil, a cynical refraction of the American Dream."
I think Se7en pretty much nails all of that precisely, while also containing the more surface elements of the world-worn detectives, the shadows, the lighting and the city as labyrinth or hell, as mentioned earlier. So not only does it qualify thematically, but also stylistically and when looking at the parts that make up a sum.
There are many films on this countdown for which i can see arguments either way, but with Se7en, I am having trouble parsing the "not noir" side of the argument.
As a disclaimer, I understand that there is a distinction between classic and neo, in that many consider the classic cycle to be more psychological, with neo being more sociologically driven. Regardless, I think Se7en again qualifies in both spheres here, especially in an analysis of John Doe and more specifically his motivations and reasoning for his sociopathy and personality disorders. Doe's ravings are more of an indictment of the results of the American Dream more so than a direct skewing or refraction of it. What better describes the essence of the neo-noir movement, as that of a darker, more post-modern level of hell (like Dante?) or the further erosion/poisoning of this dream?
Interested to hear people's thoughts...
I really don't feel like I have a proper justification for not voting for it. Like many others that I skipped as well, I guess I can see the noir in it, but there were just certain things that I was looking for on the films I voted for that I just didn't see in it. Not even sure if I can describe what, but that's how I decided to go that way.
Little Ash
04-23-24, 06:08 PM
Looking over my ballot for another reveal, I'm pretty sure my #25 is making the list. A lot of the next unrevealed on my lists probably won't make it, but some of the ones that I'm pretty sure won't make it, aren't necessarily guaranteed. So, I'll go with one that would be surprising to show up now and feels appropriate:
My #18. Naked Lunch (1991)
This is probably the most gratuitous, "retro-period piece whose recapturing of some of the era is causing me to go with the noir classification, but seems super-questionable at my inclusion (and I'd be more likely to include it on a horror list, which it is also questionable for)."
https://iv1.lisimg.com/image/9207254/600full-naked-lunch-screenshot.jpg
Adaptations of an author's life for the writing of a book never work - except for the rare occasion where they do. I noticed from the Horrorcrammers thread that a lot of the other people in there put it mid or lower tiered Cronenberg, but I personally love it. For reasons I can't explain. It's just... Kafka-esque (which could be an issue for a movie about William Burroughs for some, but I'll take it like it is).
01. (#09) Blood Simple (1984)
02.
03. (#55) Lost Highway (1997)
04. (#54) Pale Flower (1964)
05. (#15) Miller's Crossing (1990)
06. (#13) Blue Velvet (1986)
07. (#71) Branded to Kill (1967)
08. (#07) Le Samouraï (1967)
09. (#11) Fargo (1996)
10.
11. (#27) The Man Who Wasn't There (2001)
12.
13. (#72) Point Blank (1967)
14.
15. (#23) Le Cercle Rouge (1970)
16. (#10) Mulholland Drive (2001)
17.
18. (###) Naked Lunch (1991)
19. (#41) Inherent Vice (2014)
20.
21.
22.
23. (#76) Under the Silver Lake (2018)
24. (###) Down by Law (1986)
25.
Just like I did with Mulholland Drive, years ago I recorded a special episode of my podcast where I analyzed one scene from Seven, specifically the scene when John Doe surrenders to the cops. Feel free to check it out!
The Movie Loot - Special Episode I (Se7en) (https://www.buzzsprout.com/850063/5220442-thief-s-monthly-movie-loot-special-episode-i-se7en.mp3?download=true)
https://64.media.tumblr.com/82d673dec8d32812a148595802fab8c0/tumblr_inline_pmuim5jTwy1r8wv64_1280.jpg
My gut feeling is it has to do with its horror elements and its use of the grotesque. Because I think it pretty much qualifies in any way, and more so than a lot of other ones that are here.
In my attempt to steel man the argument in my mind, I was thinking that perhaps the heavy focus on procedural crime solving might be a factor, as well.
Harry Lime
04-23-24, 06:19 PM
For me the "maybes" (and again I have maybes on my list) are when you ask yourself: What type of film is ____? If the first response isn't neo-noir then it's a maybe. That's fine, though. A big part of this list is what "maybes" Mofos decided to include in their Neo-Noir List.
Miss Vicky
04-23-24, 06:20 PM
Just gonna throw out my prediction for the top 5:
1. Taxi Driver
2. Chinatown
3. Blade Runner
4. L.A. Confidential
5. The Long Goodbye
I hope I'm wrong though. That's definitely not the order I want them to be in.
Harry Lime
04-23-24, 06:21 PM
And yeah we can keep it positive. Instead of my term "maybes" which rolls off the tongue too well we can just refer to them as noirish.
While we debate about all of this, maybe you want to play a little Seven crossword puzzle...
SE7EN Deadly Sins (1995 Movie) Crossword (https://www.sporcle.com/games/bfrtsp63gow/se7en-deadly-sins-1995-movie-crossword)
There are a couple of questions that I thought were a bit iffy, but have fun with it!
John W Constantine
04-23-24, 06:54 PM
So we've reached the "did not make it" reveal stage.
So we've reached the "did not make it" reveal stage.
We've been there since we entered the Top 10.
John W Constantine
04-23-24, 07:25 PM
We've been there since we entered the Top 10.
I dunno, I've got 3 definite for the Noir, and 3 definite for the Neo Noir. That's 4 total left I'm drawing a blank. I wonder if anyone has revealed a " didn't make it" choice that ACTUALLY made it.
Holden Pike
04-23-24, 07:29 PM
Top Five Prediction
1. Chinatown
2. Blade Runner
3. Taxi Driver
4. The Long Goodbye
5. L.A. Confidential
Three are from the 1970s. Four of them are set in Los Angeles. Four of them are still on my ballot.
Holden Pike
04-23-24, 07:36 PM
For me the "maybes" (and again I have maybes on my list) are when you ask yourself: What type of film is ____? If the first response isn't neo-noir then it's a maybe. That's fine, though. A big part of this list is what "maybes" Mofos decided to include in their Neo-Noir List.
For sure. Unfortunately Neo Noir is too subjective a term. We could have spent eight months confirming or nixing eligibility until we had a list of three or four hundred titles, but truth is even then there would still be the perspective of well-that's-not-Noir-enough-for-ME. I love the decade lists because it eliminates this problem, but all genres are going to be tricky especially when there are movies that are designed as hybrids.
crumbsroom
04-23-24, 07:42 PM
In my attempt to steel man the argument in my mind, I was thinking that perhaps the heavy focus on procedural crime solving might be a factor, as well.
I'm far from an expert on noir, but aren't lots of them already pretty heavy on procedure?
crumbsroom
04-23-24, 07:46 PM
It's nice to realize a movie as weird as Long Goodbye likely makes the top five.
Top 5 Prediction
1. Chinatown
2. Blade Runner
3. Taxi Driver
4. L.A. Confidential
5. The Long Goodbye
AWARDS?
https://nofilmschool.com/media-library/se7en.png?id=34059908
Seven received several awards and nominations. These are some of the most notable:
Seven (7) Saturn Award nominations, including a win for Best Writing (Andrew Kevin Walker)
Four (4) MTV Movie Award nominations, including a win for Best Movie
Two (2) Empire Awards for Best Film and Best Actor (Morgan Freeman)
One (1) Academy Award nomination for Best Editing (Richard Francis-Bruce)
One (1) BAFTA Film Award nomination for Best Original Screenplay (Walker)
cricket
04-23-24, 07:59 PM
I just went with my gut in choosing what I viewed as neo noir and what wasn't. I can't explain why I left off Silence of the Lambs but voted for Se7en, but that's what I did.
1. Killer Joe (#66)
3. Gone Baby Gone (#64)
4. The Player (#47)
5. Se7en (#6)
6. The Usual Suspects (#20)
7. Body Heat (#22)
9. Mona Lisa (#78)
10. High and Low (#19)
11. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (#62)
12. Body Double (#69)
14. Blow Out (#17)
15. The Driver (#79)
16. Blood Simple (#9)
17. Night Moves (#40)
19. Drive (#14)
21. Manhunter (#77)
22. Sin City (#26)
23. Blue Velvet (#13)
24. Bound (#
Little Ash
04-23-24, 08:25 PM
My predictions for top 5 order (I like that we all are just in agreement as to what the top 5 are):
1. Chinatown
2. L.A. Confidential
3. Taxi Driver
4. Blade Runner
5. The Long Goodbye
Stats: Pit Stop #10
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BOTA2OWE4M2MtNTcyMS00ODQ1LWEwMjEtYzM4NjZjNmE3ZDMzXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNDY2NzgwOTE@._V1_.jpg
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After hitting our tenth pit stop (95), here's were we are now:
Decade Breakdown
1960s = 13
1970s = 12
1980s = 11
1990s = 29
2000s = 17
2010s = 13
2020s = 0
As expected, the 1990s get ready to take this race, although there was a strong showing from the 2000s.
Recurring Directors
Coen Brothers = 6
David Fincher = 4
David Lynch = 4
Michael Mann = 4
Christopher Nolan = 3
Quentin Tarantino = 3
William Friedkin = 3
Jean-Pierre Melville = 2
Brian de Palma = 2
Bong Joon-ho = 2
Shane Black = 2
Martin Scorsese = 2
The Coen brothers continue their dominance with 6 entries total, while Lynch and Fincher join the 4-entries group. Nolan gets his third one, and Melville joins the group with 2.
Just gonna throw out my prediction for the top 5:
1. Taxi Driver
2. Chinatown
3. Blade Runner
4. L.A. Confidential
5. The Long Goodbye
I hope I'm wrong though. That's definitely not the order I want them to be in.
Top Five Prediction
1. Chinatown
2. Blade Runner
3. Taxi Driver
4. The Long Goodbye
5. L.A. Confidential
Three are from the 1970s. Four of them are set in Los Angeles. Four of them are still on my ballot.
Top 5 Prediction
1. Chinatown
2. Blade Runner
3. Taxi Driver
4. L.A. Confidential
5. The Long Goodbye
My predictions for top 5 order (I like that we all are just in agreement as to what the top 5 are):
1. Chinatown
2. L.A. Confidential
3. Taxi Driver
4. Blade Runner
5. The Long Goodbye
Top 5 prediction:
1. Taxi Driver
2. Chinatown
3. Blade Runner
4. The Long Goodbye
5. L.A. Confidential
1. Chinatown
2. Blade Runner
3. L.A. Confidential
4. Taxi Driver
5. The Long Goodbye
1. Taxi Driver
2. Blade Runner
3. L.A. Confidential
4. Chinatown
5. The Long Goodbye
Ok, gonna start gathering these until the reveal tomorrow. Let's see who hits and who misses :cool::D
stillmellow
04-24-24, 01:45 AM
Top 5 prediction:
1. Taxi Driver
2. Chinatown
3. Blade Runner
4. The Long Goodbye
5. L.A. Confidential
PHOENIX74
04-24-24, 07:01 AM
7. Le Samouraï - If I'd have voted for Le Samouraï then there's a chance that Se7en would have actually come in 7th spot, so sorry for that. Anyway, I've seen this once but feel like I need to see it again for it to have a firm place on my overall rankings - it is a great film, but there was so much more I needed to be steeped in before watching it. Jean-Pierre Melville's films especially. I must say though, in the interim I have become a fan of Alain Delon, and he's great here. This is one that's unique in so many great ways - and as time passes I might see it as more and more unreasonable that I didn't have it on my ballot.
6. Se7en - This one has been a personal favourite for over a quarter of a century - never mind that it's so bleak, and dark, and horrific. Never mind that it has the ending that completely stunned most people who saw it. What I love is that teaming of Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman in ceaseless rain, chasing a serial killer who is a madman with a fervent, sharply intelligent but completely unhinged purpose. The murders are grotesque, and the way we relive them (as the detectives puzzle over what happened) makes us recoil, even though it's better than having to see them occur. Most of all though, this finds that tiny spark of light in a final quote - and that's what strikes me the most out of all the times I've seen it. That beautiful final quote. Brilliant film - words can't do it justice. I had it at #5 on my ballot.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen : 70/95
I'd never even heard of : 9/95
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 16/95
Films from my list : 16 + 1
#6 - My #5 - Se7en (1995)
#8 - My #4 - Memento (2000)
#12 - My #10 - No Country For Old Men (2007)
#13 - My #7 - Blue Velvet (1986)
#14 - My #15 - Drive (2011)
#15 - My #6 - Miller's Crossing (1990)
#16 - My #2 - Reservoir Dogs (1992)
#17 - My #22 - Blow Out (1981)
#21 - My #13 - Nightcrawler (2014)
#27 - My #24 - The Man Who Wasn't There (2001)
#28 - My #1 - The Conversation (1974)
#30 - My #23 - Zodiac (2007)
#42 - My #19 - Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005)
#44 - My #21 - Blade Runner 2049 (2017)
#52 - My #11 - Oldboy (2003)
#81 - My #17 - Brick (2005)
#106 - My #16 - Before the Devil Knows You're Dead (2007)
Harry Lime
04-24-24, 08:31 AM
1. Chinatown
2. Blade Runner
3. L.A. Confidential
4. Taxi Driver
5. The Long Goodbye
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