The MoFo Top 100 Neo-noir Countdown [Archive] - Page 5

Thief

04-01-24, 01:16 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... MAC AND ME

https://trashfilmguru.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/6a00e54ee7b6428833022ad3a22710200d-700wi.png
RT – 7%, IMDb – 3.4

Andrew F. Peirce, from The Curb, said:

"Let’s be clear first of all – this is not a masterpiece of cinema, but on the same hand, it is also not a completely incompetent film. Technically, there’s little to complain about – there’s some nice camera work and Alan Silvestri’s score is fine. Acting on the other hand is not exactly the best with the two young actors – Jade Calegory and Lauren Stanley – providing the best young child performances they can muster. The story cribs a lot from E.T., but manages to throw its own spin on the ‘lost alien’ story." (read full review here (https://www.thecurb.com.au/mac-and-me-review/))

Jacob Ethington, of Jacob Writers Forever, said:

"For fans of 'so bad it's good' movies, Mac and Me is essential. It's totally watchable, unlike some movies of its kind, but it's many MANY idiosyncrasies and horrifying decisions make it damn entertaining. But anyone expecting a gauntlet of movie watching patience won't find much here (whoever that person is)." (read full review here (https://www.jacobwritesforever.com/blog/2018/8/30/mac-and-me-1988-review))

Daniel Barnes, from Dare Daniel, said:

"A film that warms your heart with rage, Mac and Me offers a constant stream of soulless corporate synergy. Like a 19th-century mountebank, the film peddles Coca-Cola as a life-saving elixir. Meanwhile, McDonald’s gets portrayed as an ecstatic dance party, even in the presence of hate crimes." (read full review here (https://daredaniel.com/2019/06/18/mac-and-me-podcast-review/))

WHITBISSELL!

04-01-24, 01:18 PM

SpelingError

04-01-24, 01:44 PM

Haven't seen either film.

stillmellow

04-01-24, 02:16 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... MAC AND ME

https://trashfilmguru.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/6a00e54ee7b6428833022ad3a22710200d-700wi.png
RT – 7%, IMDb – 3.4

Andrew F. Peirce, from The Curb, said:

Jacob Ethington, of Jacob Writers Forever, said:

Daniel Barnes, from Dare Daniel, said:

I do believe this is both Paul Rudd and Conan O'Brien's first appearances in the list.

Thief

04-01-24, 03:55 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... A SIMPLE PLAN

https://i0.wp.com/streamondemandathome.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/simpleplan98.jpg
RT – 90%, IMDb – 7.5

Roger Ebert said:

"The materials of Sam Raimi's A Simple Plan are not unfamiliar, but rarely is a film this skillful at drawing us, step by step, into the consequences of criminal action." (read full document here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/a-simple-plan-1998))

Seth Harris, from Pop Cult, said:

"It shouldn’t have surprised anyone that A Simple Plan would be so close to that rural noir the Coens made popular with Fargo. Raimi is enough of a student of American film that he isn’t just going to make a carbon copy but bring in other influences [...] The result is a very dark picture of greed that needs to be brought up more in conversations about great movies of the 1990s." (read full review here (https://popcult.blog/2023/01/30/movie-review-a-simple-plan/))

Gideon58 said:

"Director Sam Raimi really scores here creating an atmospheric drama that takes on an added richness with the story being buried in snow and the eerie cinematic symbolism of black crows overlooking the story [...] The effect of greed has rarely been so effectively showcased as screenwriter Scott B. Smith does here, adapting his own novel for the screen." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1705216-a-simple-plan.html))

Thief

04-01-24, 03:55 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... THE GRIFTERS

https://jaredmobarak.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/grifters01.jpg
RT – 91%, IMDb – 6.9

Roger Ebert said:

"One of the strengths of The Grifters is how everything adds up, and it all points toward the conclusion of the film, when all secrets will be revealed and all debts collected. This is a movie of plot, not episode. It's not just a series of things that happen to the characters, but a web, a maze of consequences" (read full document here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-grifters-1991))

Stefan Betz Bloom, from The Oberlin Review, said:

"Film noir is one, if not the only, genre that seems to have improved with time. Directors, under less and less pressure from studios to have their movies provide a sense of uplift, have more freedom to explore the blackness of the human heart that is, essentially, what film noir is about. Unlike a love story, where the sentimentality of an old movie only enhances the intended effect, film noir gets better the darker it gets. And The Grifters is maybe the darkest film noir of them all." (read full review here (https://www2.oberlin.edu/stupub/ocreview/archives/1996.09.20/arts/grifters.html))

JayDee said:

"A pitch black, hard nosed neo-noir which also has a surprisingly fragile tone, none more so seen than in Huston's desperate Lilly. Huston and her two co-stars are all terrific." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/830100-the-grifters.html))

seanc

04-01-24, 04:47 PM

There are two movies that I have to have considered watching 100 times in the past 25 years. One is Crying Game, the other is The Grifters. At this point I probably won’t watch them just to keep the streak alive. I really like Cusack, so I may remedy the blind spot eventually.

I watched Simple Plan when it came out and enjoyed it quite a bit. He had definitely left the noggin, so it needs a rewatch. I remember it feeling very Coen-esque.

Holden Pike

04-01-24, 05:01 PM

Lots of catching up for me.

98282

I only have two directors who appeared on both my Classic and Neo Noir ballots. One of them is Samuel Fuller. I have two of his titles on my other ballot – my one-pointer The Crimson Kimono has been revealed thus far, the other has not – but I could not resist Sam’s bold, crazy, unforgettable The Naked Kiss here. Its legendary opening is one of the most memorable not only in the Noir genre but film in general: After two brief title cards announcing it is an Allied Artists Production and the names of the producers we cut to a woman attacking a man in an apartment, striking him about the head and body over and over again, all to a loud jazz score with a quick tempo. The first shots all have the camera subbing for first the man’s point of view and then the woman’s in close up as the kinetic struggle continues. Then her wig is pulled off revealing her completely bald head, which seems to enrage her even more! She beats the man to the ground and then rolls him for his wallet. She tells him she is only taking what he owes her, then throws his wallet back at him and gets up to leave. She stops at a mirror to reset her wig and we get the title, THE NAKED KISS, as the music changes to a more melodramatic score and the credits flash over her fixing herself up, staring into the lens as if it were a mirror. If THAT don’t grab you, maybe nothing will?

98283

The woman is named Kelly (Constance Towers) and she is a prostitute. The man she beat up was her pimp. A couple months later she arrives by bus to a small town, and immediately catches the eye of a kind local cop named Griff (Anthony Eisley). She is trying to go straight, selling cheap champaign. But he recognizes her for what she was and refers her to a cathouse. Instead she rents a room from a kindly widow, takes a job as a nurse’s aide, and meets one of the town’s most eligible bachelors, a rich world traveler who lives in a mansion (Michael Dante). She confesses her past to him, but he assures her it doesn’t matter and they agree to marry. That it is all spoiled when she learns the secret he is keeping! Fuller’s tale of whores, cops, and child molesters hiding in the supposed sunlight of a small town doesn’t match the energy of that crackerjack opening, but it had to be on my list. It was my lucky number thirteen, good for thirteen points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcpiH-VDqxU

98284

Blast of Silence is a lean, micro-budgeted Noir delight. Unmistakably and omnisciently narrated by the gravely-voiced Lionel Stander with dialogue by Waldo Salt (both were blacklisted at the time, originally uncredited) with incredibly fun stuff like “You know the type; a second-string Syndicate Boss with too much ambition and a mustache to hide the fact that he has lips like a woman, the kind of face you hate” that is part homage and part parody. It tells the simple tale of hitman Frankie Bono sent to his old stomping grounds to do a rub out around Christmas. Terrific location work around New York City boroughs and an at times documentary-like feel juxtaposed with that hyper-stylized voice over dialogue make for a winning combo.

98285

It was set to star writer/director Allen Baron’s friend Peter Falk, but when he got his big studio break in Murder, Inc. (which would net him a Best Supporting Actor nod) he had to back out, forcing Baron to play the lead himself. Blast of Silence’s cult following might have developed faster had it starred Falk, but Baron’s less polished performance adds to the underground mystique. I had it ninth on my ballot, good for seventeen of its points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL5jokNfXQo&t=9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyDzwneS-4Q&t=1s

98286

Jim Thompson’s The Grifters was wonderfully adapted for the big screen by Stephen Frears with a screenplay by another hard boiled author in Donald Westlake. John Cusack is very well cast as Roy Dillon, a charming smalltime con man who is used to scoring anywhere from ten bucks to a few hundred dollars at a time. But he lives cheaply, is mostly careful, and has squirreled his money away. He isn’t aware at first, but his new gal Myra Langtry (Annette Bening) is also on the grift. She is stuck doing small and almost desperate things now, but that is only because her former partner who was teaching her the long con for big money had a breakdown. Where Roy and Myra’s partnership may have gone we’ll never know because into the picture strolls Roy’s mother, Lilly (Anjelica Huston). Lilly is a bit more dangerous than either of them, working for a mobster named Bobo (Pat Hingle) keeping racetrack odds in check by making bets for the syndicate. But like most crooks Myra has grown greedy, skimming more and more money from the mob until they confront her. Now she has to come up with a pile of cash, fast, to placate her violent boss.

98287

The tidy plot was kept from the novel, but the real secret to the success of the film was the tone and capturing all of the details of the big and small cons, which makes it feel authentic. These three terrific central characters on their inevitable collision course is an actor’s dream, and there is an amazing supporting cast along for the ride too that includes J.T. Walsh, Stephen Tobolowsky, Henry Jones, and Charles Napier with a wonderful score by the great Elmer Bernstein. It is a first-class production all around for a tale of clever criminals. Huston and Bening were both rightly Oscar nominated, as was Frears as Best Director and Westlake for his adapted screenplay. It was all the way up at number seven on my ballot.

That makes eight of my choices, thus far.

HOLDEN'S BALLOT
7. The Grifters (#45)
8. One False Move (#73)
9. Blast of Silence (#48)
13. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15. Shallow Grave (#95)
17. Dead Again (#90)
22. The Hot Spot (#85)
24. Blue Ruin (#82)
25. Johnny Handsome (DNP)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6WI50aD01E

Thief

04-01-24, 05:11 PM

I watched Simple Plan when it came out and enjoyed it quite a bit. He had definitely left the noggin, so it needs a rewatch. I remember it feeling very Coen-esque.

For what it's worth, Sam Raimi and the Coens worked together a lot during the 80s as they were launching their careers.

Raimi frequently collaborates with Joel and Ethan Coen, beginning when Joel was one of the editors of Evil Dead. The Coens co-wrote Crimewave and The Hudsucker Proxy with Raimi in the mid-1980s (though Hudsucker was not produced for almost a decade). Raimi made cameo appearances in Miller's Crossing, The Hudsucker Proxy, and with Joel Coen in Spies Like Us, and they all worked together on Mac and Me. The Coen brothers gave Raimi advice on shooting in snow for A Simple Plan, based on their experiences with Fargo.

So there you go.

cricket

04-01-24, 05:17 PM

No votes from me but A Simple Plan was close.

Wasn't crazy about The Grifters but I wouldn't mind trying again.

beelzebubble

04-01-24, 06:16 PM

I want to thank Holden Pike for encouraging me to watch The Naked Kiss. I loved watching our girl wail on her pimp with her handbag. It was a beautiful thing. The denouement was definitely a surprise. I guess I was getting a little comfortable with the Hallmark moments before that.
Of the last six movies, I have not seen only one Blast of Silence. Of the remaining five only two were on my list.
You Were Never Really Here was my #2 and The Grifters was my #12. I saw these two films only once but they both had a lasting resonance.

GulfportDoc

04-01-24, 08:57 PM

2 for 2 seen AND 2 for 2 from my ballot!

A Simple Plan is yet another one of those that, even though I haven't seen it in a couple of years, it stuck with me. The story of three friends crumbling under the pressure of money is not new, but it is wonderfully told by Raimi, and handled by the great cast. It was my #19.

The Grifters, on the other hand, was higher for me. What a wonderfully dark film. Great performances from the three leads, in a film that moves at a fast pace, with some dark humor and bleak results. It is probably my favorite film from 1990, and I had it all the way up at #2.
...
I really enjoyed A Simple Plan for its innovation and unusual story. Plus, I'm a big Billy Bob Thornton fan.

The Grifters was extremely well done, with plenty of twists. Top notch acting. But the story was a little too sick for me..:shifty:

Thief

04-01-24, 11:43 PM

AWARDS?

https://static.rogerebert.com/redactor_assets/pictures/5c2bf117306fcc0522638557/content_Simple_Plan_3.png

A Simple Plan received several nominations or awards. These are some of the most notable:

Three (3) Critics Choice Award nominations, including a win for Best Screenplay (Scott B. Smith)
Two (2) Academy Award nominations, including Best Supporting Actor (Billy Bob Thornton)
Two (2) Saturn Award nominations, including Best Supporting Actor (Thornton)
One (1) Golden Globe Award nomination for Best Supporting Actor (Thornton)
One (1) Screen Actors Guild Award nomination for Best Supporting Actor (Thornton)

Thief

04-01-24, 11:46 PM

AWARDS?

https://images.mubicdn.net/images/film/2976/cache-9831-1481125637/image-w1280.jpg?size=800x

The Grifters received several nominations or awards. These are some of the most notable:

Four (4) Academy Award nominations, including Best Director (Stephen Frears)
Two (2) Film Independent Spirit Awards, including Best Feature
One (1) BAFTA Film Award nomination for Best Supporting Actress (Annette Bening)
One (1) Golden Globe Award nomination for Best Actress (Anjelica Huston)
One (1) Edgar Allan Poe Award for Best Motion Picture

PHOENIX74

04-02-24, 12:23 AM

48. Blast of Silence - Another I haven't heard of.

47. The Player - Great Altman flick - couldn't quite make my list, but I caught up with it again a couple of years ago and bought the Criterion edition. Well worth it - there's so many little touches for movie lovers, so many really funny moments, and such a thrilling film noir narrative that it's a real attention stealer. Has to be rated up near the top of Tim Robbins roles and performances (he got in another good one with Mystic River a little while back.) This is the film that introduced me to Robert Altman, as it was his big "comeback" to mainstream prominence, allowing him to make more elaborate films with bigger budgets during the 90s than he had during the 80s. I also love all the cameos from stars and Hollywood heavyweights playing themselves.

46. A Simple Plan - Another suitcase full of money, another blood-drenched tale of misfortune and ill-gotten gains that cause way more trouble than they're worth. Oh, and another significant performance from Billy Bob Thornton, who had only just become a big star. Can I also mention how much I miss Bill Paxton? A really solid thriller from Sam Raimi with it's fair share of tension and tragedy, this is a favourite amongst my family members, but I think I've only seen it the once. I liked it well enough, but it wasn't going to ever make my ballot.

45. The Grifters - I've heard of this, but never seen it. Seeing as it's made #45 on the Neo Noir Countdown I should perhaps remedy that.

Seen : 33/56

ScarletLion

04-02-24, 05:41 AM

Been off the grid sorry:

60. True Romance (63 points) - Fun film. Not quite good enough for a top 25 in my opinion.
59. Bound (63 points) - same here. fun but a little pastiche. Hot scenes though.
58. The French Connection (65 points) - an all time classic, totally forgot to put it on my list
57. Alphaville (66 points) - great film that i didn't really consider as neo noir. more sci fi.
56. Thelma & Louise (67 points) - need to rewatch this. it's been years
55. Lost Highway (67 points) - my favourite Lynch film, and another i totally forgot to put on my list
54. Pale Flower (71 points) - really great 60s neo noir but didn't quite make my list
53. The Departed (74 points) - I dislike this film more and more every week. It's really quite bad and doesn't deserve to lick the boots of the original.
52. Oldboy (75 points) - I didn't consider this ne-noir, if i had it would have been top 5. It's the film that got me into Park Chan Wook.
51. The Naked Kiss (77 points) - don't think I've seen this one.

Wooley

04-02-24, 07:59 AM

Nice.
The Grifters was gonna be pretty high up for me.

Little Ash

04-02-24, 10:15 AM

While we revel in the glory that is Mac and Me, why don't you try your hand on this game?

Neo-Noir Movies Picture Click I (https://www.sporcle.com/games/LisaSimpsonOH/neo-noir-movie-picture-click)

Let us know how you do!

I got 13/15

crumbsroom

04-02-24, 10:53 AM

I remember really liking Blast of Silence, but it felt inauthentic to include a movie on my list that my memory is very sketchy on. I think I only remember the end.

Nice pick with Lost Highway. Didn't even think of it, but I think it's probably better that his Mulholland Drive which I suspect will be right at the top of this list.

I must have included Naked Kiss. Just the opening two minutes should be enough for it to be considered one of the greatest movies ever made.

crumbsroom

04-02-24, 10:54 AM

True Romance is fun, but disposable

The Grifters is decent but disposable.

Simple Plan is the kind of movie that should be decent and fun but disposable, but the three central performances give it staying power. Especially the guy whose name I don't know. He has a beard I think. Or maybe not.

Oh no, maybe my brain ended up disposing of this one by mistake.

Citizen Rules

04-02-24, 11:42 AM

Hey Fredrick

04-02-24, 12:05 PM

When I saw the reveal for A Simple Plan and The Grifters I thought "Ooh, two from my ballot.' Wrong! Somehow I forgot about A Simple Plan. I know it was on early versions of my ballot but it's nowhere to be found today. Would have been in the teens.

The Grifters I didn't forget about and is in my top 25 at 24. I've seen it a couple times and should have watched it again before submitting my ballot because I think I have it too low.

stillmellow

04-02-24, 12:21 PM

Thief

04-02-24, 12:34 PM

8lists92pointsBlade Runner 2049 (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/335984-blade-runner-2049.html)Director
Denis Villeneuve, 2017

Starring
Ryan Gosling, Harrison Ford, Sylvia Hoeks, Ana de Armas

Thief

04-02-24, 12:35 PM

9lists92pointsTo Live and Die in L.A. (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/9846-to-live-and-die-in-l.a..html)Director
William Friedkin, 1985

Starring
William Petersen, Willem Dafoe, John Pankow, Debra Feuer

Thief

04-02-24, 12:35 PM

TRAILERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCcx85zbxz4

Blade Runner 2049 - A new blade runner from Los Angeles uncovers a secret that can plunge society into chaos, forcing him to track down Rick Deckard, a former blade runner that has been missing for 30 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tq018xnM7w

To Live and Die in L.A. - A reckless Secret Service agent sets out to seek revenge at all costs from a dangerous counterfeiter responsible for the murder of his partner. will stop at nothing to bring down the counterfeiter who killed his partner.

cricket

04-02-24, 12:37 PM

I got 15/15 but most here will

Thief

04-02-24, 12:39 PM

Watched To Live and Die in L.A. for the first time early last year for a MoFo HoF and liked it quite a bit. I think it has a lot of effective mood and atmosphere that fits this list perfectly. You can check out my full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2374058-to_live_and_die_in_l.a..html), but here's an excerpt:

"Despite some of the issues stated above, I really enjoyed this. I enjoyed the dark and gritty approach to things, and Friedkin did a solid job directing. It's worth mentioning that there's a particularly intense car chase that will keep you on the edge of your seat. The script has some issues, but a lot of the dialogue is sharp and cool, and there is a twist towards the end that's bound to make you go 'what?!' "

I had it at #24.

I saw Blade Runner 2049 a while ago and remember liking it a lot. However, I should've probably revisit it cause it's not a film that has stuck with me; at least as much as others.

SEEN: 35/58
MY BALLOT: 10/25

1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10.
11.
12. Bound (#59)
13.
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21.
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.

Citizen Rules

04-02-24, 12:41 PM

I got 15/15 but most here willI guess I'm not most:p

I did horrible. I only got 4/15. I had to pass on 5 as there were 5 titles I hadn't heard of.

Allaby

04-02-24, 12:41 PM

I really liked Blade Runner 2049 and thought it was a meticulously well crafted and sharply executed epic film, masterfully directed. It just missed out on my ballot, but I'm glad it made the countdown. I didn't enjoy To Live and Die in L.A. The story didn't really interest me. I wasn't engaged and couldn't really care about the characters. The film dragged on for me and felt longer than it was.

Seen: 45/58

Citizen Rules

04-02-24, 12:48 PM

I didn't care for Blade Runner 2049 too much.

https://78.media.tumblr.com/fa7354f5f3107db640dc44b29d53e072/tumblr_p52nclXLmu1r74mgdo7_540.gif

Blade Runner 2049 (Denis Villeneuve, 2017)

...I had heard a lot of great things about BR2049 and about Villeneuve's vision for the film...

But I have to say: I was underwhelmed by it. I'm not hating on it, and thank goodness it wasn't stupid, and let's face it, it could have easily been a cheesy sequel that dumped all over the original...But it didn't do that, in fact it paid homage to the original Blade Runner and to the original novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? I got a kick out of seeing Gaff (Edward James Olmos)...and I knew when I seen his hands working under the table that he was making one of those infamous origami characters. But boy was I surprised when I seen it was a sheep, ha! Loved that nod to the novel. And I loved that Atari sign, a nod to the original film...as was the Pris like character, Mariette (get it? mariette)...

I had expected an introspective-existential deep film, but I didn't see anything deep. The story line itself wasn't that interesting, and the characters for the most part had no soul. I mean Ryan Gosling as K was decent and I liked him, but there wasn't much there. No inner conflict, no self awareness awakening (even though that was the theme of the movie) I never felt, that K felt anything too deep.

Jarred Leto as Wallace was rather predictable. I swear he was doing an imitation of Weyoun from Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Only not nearly as good as Jefferey Combs did it. Oh, and not impressed with the recreation of Rachael. Was I suppose to believe that looked like Rachael? Not even close. Hell the shoes were even wrong.

Blade Runner 2049 paid due respect to the source material, but it lacked the feeling of 'world building' that Ridley Scott did so well.

rating_3

Citizen Rules

04-02-24, 12:52 PM

I liked this one better as a neo noir:
https://www.imcdb.org/i228918.jpg
To Live and Die in L.A. (1985)

At the start of the film I was like, 'OK, this is all right I guess, in an 1980s type way'. The movie felt pretty much pot boiler to me, like a 2 hour movie version of Starsky and Hutch. Run of the mill type stuff. But then the movie gains speed with the abduction and accidental killing of a diamond smuggler who was actually an undercover FBI agent. That put a whole new spin on the pair of gung ho secret service crime fighters, and took the story to a higher level.

Kudos for a fresh and brave resolve to the lead secret service agent and his final resolution which felt very real. Something about the scene just felt right and satisfying.

I enjoyed the cinematography that showed us a good deal of the L.A. city scape and showed us portions of L.A. that usually aren't filmed in movies. It was awesome for me to see the San Pedro waterfront and portions of the port as I just spent the last six months binge watching The Love Boat and each episode starts with the 'Love Boat' sailing out of San Pedro with the Vincent Thomas bridge and the huge oil refineries in the background. So it was very cool to see more of those scenes here.

The chase scene. I'm not a big car chase scene type of guy but I have to say I was impressed with the huge scope of the chase down the actual streets and freeway of L.A area. I had to stop and remind myself that this was done for real and not CG. It's so easy to take these dangerous stunts in older movies in stride. But these stunts took some serious planning and were dangerous, like that semi with it's trailer skidding out of control...Now that's an OMG moment!

For all those good points, I have to say the acting was really flat. Except for DeFoe who was rock solid. I don't know who cast this movie but those actors had no business playing leads (except DeFoe). The story premise as I mentioned was good but the actual script and dialogue was uninspired which leads me think Friedkin made a good director but not such a great writer. I haven't seen many of his films but I did see Sorcerer (1977) which Cricket nominated in an HoF and that movie had characters who came alive and atmosphere and world building that one could literally feel. I didn't get that from To Live in Die in L.A.

Thief

04-02-24, 01:09 PM

Some list facts!

The 6 point gap between yesterday's The Grifters and today's Blade Runner 2049 is the largest of the countdown so far. The second largest was 4 points between Pale Flower (#54) and Lost Highway (#55).
With To Live and Die in L.A., William Friedkin joins the group of directors with THREE (3) entries. He had Killer Joe at #66 and The French Connection at #58.
This is the 17th tie of the countdown so far. There are only four more ties left in the countdown since the second half is more spread out.

Harry Lime

04-02-24, 01:11 PM

I was a pleasantly surprised fan of Blade Runner 2049 but it's got nothing on the original and I only had room for one Blade Runner on my list. I could go for a rewatch of 2049 though since I think I've watched the original twice since I saw 2049.

I like To Live and Die in L.A. as well but it's been a while. It's all eighties though. Gritty action eighties.

Tugg

04-02-24, 01:12 PM

My #12 Blade Runner 2049 (2017) and #19 To Live and Die in L.A. (1985).

Torgo

04-02-24, 01:14 PM

I do love To Live and Die in L.A., which is #13 on my list. Here's something I wrote about it:

Alejandro Jodorowsky once said he makes films with his cojones. The same could be said of Friedkin for this movie, which is as gritty, sweaty, raw and, well, ballsy as they come. It's about a cat and mouse game between secret service agents Chance and Vuckovich and Rick Masters (Willem Dafoe), an artist and expert counterfeiter who has eluded capture for years. Chance (CSI's William Petersen), like The French Connection's Popeye Doyle, is a loose cannon, adrenaline junkie and a classic Friedkin protagonist for how he's compelled to abandon everything he stands for to get the job done. The movie also resembles the 1971 classic in Chance's relationship to his more thoughtful, upstanding partner and for its car chase - arguably the best ever - but luckily, it's not a carbon copy of that movie (no pun intended). This one has other things on its mind, particularly how the empty pursuit of wealth characteristic of the 1980's can forgo the genuine for the artificial in all meaningful aspects of life. Aside from Masters' counterfeit bills and his predilection for burning his paintings, you see it in his tenuous relationship with his lawyer and in Chance's relationships, namely his friends-with-benefits one with informant Ruth and with Vuckovich, which is a far cry from his genuine friendship with former partner Jim. Is it also in Wang Chung's synth-heavy score? Whether it is or not, it's fantastic, not to mention a key player in maintaining the movie's stylish vibe and driving pace.

Besides its similarities to The French Connection, there are other cop movie clichés that likely inspired National Lampoon's Loaded Weapon. Chance's former partner Jim actually says "I'm getting too old for this s***," for example. It still stands tall as one of the best crime thrillers of the '80s or any other decade. If you were to watch this movie, John Carpenter's They Live and Jack Sholder's The Hidden in an afternoon, you would learn everything there is to know about Reaganomics. However, you would also risk a testosterone overdose.

Holden Pike

04-02-24, 01:20 PM

Neo-Noir Movies Picture Click I (https://www.sporcle.com/games/LisaSimpsonOH/neo-noir-movie-picture-click)

Let us know how you do!
15/15 03:08

Thursday Next

04-02-24, 01:23 PM

I've never seen To Live and Die in L.A.. Ask me anything :laugh:

I have mixed feelings about 2049. There's a lot that's good about it but I don't know how much I like it as a sequel. And all bits involving Jared Leto are unnecessary.

SpelingError

04-02-24, 01:44 PM

Neither film made my ballot, but both are very good. Here's what I wrote on To Live and Die in L.A. for a Hall of Fame:

Friedkin is now two for two with memorable car chases.

I might be rating this film too high, but since its best elements have stuck with me to a significant degree since watching it, my better judgment says my rating for it is fair. On the surface level, it has some strong acting across the board (Willem Dafoe, in particular) and some well-executed action scenes (including a car chase scene whose choreography and sense of thrills rivals that in The French Connection). It also has some memorable music choices. Beyond all the gloss though, it's also a compelling story which examines the personality and morality of the two main officers in the film. Chance is reckless and corrupt, while Vukovich is more level-headed and follows the rules. Watching the two of them carry out the investigation in their own distinct ways and observing the impact it has on them is where the film shines. For instance, while the aforementioned car chase is great, the aftermath of it comes with its own set of teeth since Vukovich is crippled by guilt for his involvement in it, while Chance remains unfazed throughout it. I wasn't a fan of the culmination of Vukovich's arc since his actions were too rushed for me to buy them, but this is a minor flaw in the grand scheme of everything else. For the most part, the film handles the characters very well and does a fine job at exploring the ways their shaped by their surroundings.

Citizen Rules

04-02-24, 01:55 PM

Thief

04-02-24, 01:56 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... BLADE RUNNER 2049

https://media.meer.com/attachments/c990c3ad6a381fdb364360a33a91774168c3c70a/store/fill/1090/613/6aa8fb96ab7e5aeaee642bef67f828cea455856c566fab61e65de41c0b06/Blade-Runner-2049.jpg
RT – 88%, IMDb – 8.0

Brian Tallerico, from RogerEbert.com, said:

"[Denis Villeneuve]’s in no way seeking to improve or replace [Blade Runner]—the films now work together, enriching each other instead of mimicking. They ask timeless questions and, like all great films, refuse to give you all the answers, allowing viewers to debate and discuss their meaning instead of merely being passive recipients of mindless entertainment." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/blade-runner-2049-2017))

Evan Narcisse, from Gizmodo, said:

"As a follow-up to a beloved movie from decades ago, Blade Runner 2049 mostly succeeds by building strong skeleton of noir conventions that support the focus on mood and idiosyncrasy. Noir movies always venture into places where morality is shifting and human nature gets exposed in its rawest forms, and Blade Runner 2049 shows how the template probably won’t ever go out of style." (read full review here (https://gizmodo.com/like-the-original-blade-runner-2049-is-scifi-film-noir-1820549771))

Takoma11 said:

"The world that was established in the previous film already brings with it the loaded question of what is real and even the nature of reality. This theme is carried forward and extended by putting a character front and center who is explicitly questioning the nature of his own life and reality. K knows that he is a replicant, but even within the confines of that fact, who is he really?" (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2236486-blade_runner_2049.html))

Thief

04-02-24, 01:56 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... TO LIVE AND DIE IN L.A.

https://i.imgur.com/0vKohAX.jpg
RT – 88%, IMDb – 7.3

Roger Ebert said:

"The whole plot is neat, revolving around a few central emotions - friendship, loyalty, arrogance, anger. By the time the great chase sequence arrives, it isn't just a novelty that's tacked onto a movie where it doesn't fit. It's part of the plot. The Secret Service agents bungle their crime, the cops come in pursuit, and the chase unfolds in a long, dazzling ballet of timing, speed and imagination." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/to-live-and-die-in-la-1985))

Jeremy Urquhart, from Collider, said:

"To Live and Die in L.A. is a quintessential 1980s neo-noir movie [...] It takes a simple revenge movie premise and milks all the excitement and grisly violence it can from such a set-up [...] It's filled with remarkably stylish visuals and some of the greatest action sequences in crime movie history, particularly one car chase that has to be seen to be." (read full review here (https://collider.com/best-movies-like-heat/))

JayDee said:

"The film is a bit of a oxymoron in that it feels both dated, but in some ways still quite modern and fresh. Some of its visuals and music, and in particular the day-glo titles certainly place it firmly in the 80s. And yet it feels ahead of its time, pre-dating the kind of kinetic and violent offerings the 90s would offer up from the likes of Quentin Tarantino. And with its anti-heroes and needless violence it still feels quite current. It's an impressively filmed and acted effort which certainly thrills and enthralls." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/856068-to-live-and-die-in-l.a..html))

John-Connor

04-02-24, 02:01 PM

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/3oMcgwieehGrWXlGzhbgYfrB7mv.jpg
A Simple Plan, The Player and Blast of Silence are all great and were in heavy contention for my ballot. Cusack is the man and The Grifters is solid but was never in contention for my list (awkward mother-son situationship).
Blade Runner 2049 is aesthetically awesome and visually very sci-fi / tech- noir looking, it’s on my neo noir top hundred. de Armas :love:. Maybe I was having a bad day but To Live and Die in L.A. didn't really click with me, perhaps I should try it again.

SEEN: 53/58
MY BALLOT: 6/25
https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/gvGVkg2zBbKaZNrQzxISE889jh.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/wxk1cgl23GZQ1fC50GE9alPgNcJ.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/a5ccZmPZteTxnUZEuCbNyfQMysM.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/3q9SGLL9nccXgidRu3QOdAJjElk.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/oEd9fETBWo6j6xtwykPLALPScLv.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/x5xCkGw4jutMcc8nmWLKNzbDKht.jpg

Holden Pike

04-02-24, 02:04 PM

The Grifters is solid but was never in contention for my list (awkward mother-son situationship).
Not awkward. Oedipal.

stillmellow

04-02-24, 02:11 PM

To Live and Die in L.A. is one of those movies I keep meaning to see, but haven't gotten around to.

I wasn't impressed with Blade Runner 2049. It expanded on the world setting well, and visually it was stunning, but to me the good doesn't outweigh the bad. It tries too hard to be mainstream, and the beginning of a series. It doesn't stand up well enough as art. It doesn't do a very good job at being a purely entertaining movie either. I don't think it's a bad movie, just a combination of elements that work well on their own, that don't work together, like vanilla ice cream and balsamic vinegar.

Seen 31 of 58 of the list.

seanc

04-02-24, 02:13 PM

Holden Pike

04-02-24, 02:15 PM

This weird, audacious, thrilling, and bleak flick was on my list.

98308

I have loved To Live & Die in L.A. since I saw it theatrically in 1985. As discussed in THIS THREAD (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=67895), despite its R rating and adult content a buddy and I saw it one night when we were fifteen, thanks to a probably eighteen-year-old ticket seller who didn’t give a crap whether we were too young or not. We probably were a bit young, but what an engrossing ride! Even at that age I could tell this was not simply an anti-hero at work but rather a look at obsession and a very dark character moving through an even darker world. I had seen Willem Dafoe before in Streets of Fire, but he was so odd and cool and seductive and unique and dangerous as Robin Masters the artist/counterfeiter. It was the first time I saw John Turturro in anything, a memorable turn. Years later when John Pankow and Jane Leeves show up as sitcom regulars (on "Mad About You" and "Fraiser", respectively) I knew damn well who they were.

98309

The car chase that is really the centerpiece of the film is everything it is chalked up to be and more. Friedkin had set the bar extremely high with the chase under the elevated train in The French Connection but he was up to the challenge. It has such a great emotional component to it, Vukovich freaking out in the back seat while the thrill-seeking Chance calmly swerves around each obstacle, with more and more cars and guns pursuing them, culminating with going the wrong way on the freeway. Brilliantly designed and raises the stakes perfectly. The ending is appropriately weird and bloody and dark as night with our main protagonist taking one in the face before the final confrontation can even take place. So good. Of course, there are some very 1980s elements, but To Live and Die in L.A. holds up extremely well, nearly forty years later. For me I like it more than Michael Mann's Manhunter, also starring William Petersen, released the following year, though both are top rate.

I had To Live & Die in L.A. as my dozenth pick, good for fourteen points. Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

HOLDEN'S BALLOT
7. The Grifters (#45)
8. One False Move (#73)
9. Blast of Silence (#48)
12. To Live & Die in L.A. (#43)
13. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15. Shallow Grave (#95)
17. Dead Again (#90)
22. The Hot Spot (#85)
24. Blue Ruin (#82)
25. Johnny Handsome (DNP)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6kTGFDhPKI&t=1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oInarMlrP7c&t=7s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8_xYlc7Qls

Sedai

04-02-24, 02:22 PM

Seen all four of the last couple of day's entries.

The Grifters was a re-watch for me on the run up to ballot time, and I liked it quite a bit less this time around. I am with GulfportDoc here, in that the story is pretty gross, and although I am a big fan of Cussack, he doesn't fit here for me. The rest of the actors were all great, and this is a well-made neo, but I kicked it out of contention shortly after this most recent viewing.

I didn't get a chance to watch A Simple Plan again before the deadline, so I couldn't put it on my list, as I barely remember it.

To Live and Die in L.A. was on my list at #25, just making the cut. Another re-watch on the run up to the deadline, this is a great neo with equal parts style and 80s awesomeness. This film feels ahead of its time in some ways, like portions of the film were forward-thinking into the late 90s. Or perhaps some of the gritty late 90s stuff just takes inspiration from this. Excellent neo!

Ok, in full disclosure, I pushed Blade Runner 2049 all the way up to #11 on my list, while fully realizing that it probably shouldn't be on my last at all. There is an argument that one of the biggest differences between the sequel and the original is that the sequel removes much of what made the original qualify as neo-noir in the first place. I don't fully agree, but I can understand the argument. Alas, there it is, qualifying for this countdown, and I made the decision to not only put it on my ballot, but to shamelessly juice it up the rankings as far as possible without putting it above films that are obviously and clearly more deserving and better examples of neo-noir. Big fan of BR 49, and I still pop it on when I am in the mood.

WHITBISSELL!

04-02-24, 03:01 PM

2 for 2. I liked Blade Runner 2049. I didn't consider it a neo-noir which is a bit weird since I definitely see the original as noir. It's not a perfect movie but there were so many ways it could have been done wrong. Anyone attempting a sequel to an "untouchable" classic is starting out at a huge disadvantage. I interpret the inevitable backlash being somewhat muted as a positive. Having said all this I still can't wrap my brain around it under-performing at the box office. It was set up to win. The Right Stuff anyone?

I also liked To Live and Die in L.A. It's a good movie but not a great one. Good set pieces. The car chase of course. Willem Dafoe. But it isn't greater than the sum of it's parts. A cult classic maybe?

36 of 58 seen.

crumbsroom

04-02-24, 03:33 PM

To Live and Die in LA deserved to be on my list more than a few that made it. Friedkin is the boss.

And speaking of Friedkin's, did I remember Cruising? I hope I remembered Cruising (for it's inevitable no show)

edarsenal

04-02-24, 04:50 PM

this film was #19 on my list. The Grifters moves at such an assured pace and style thanks to the excellent direction by Stephen Frears, exceptional writing, and great performances especially from Angelica Huston - who is nothing less than amazing in the film.

YES she was!

edarsenal

04-02-24, 04:58 PM

mrblond

04-02-24, 04:58 PM

Thief

04-02-24, 05:04 PM

https://i.imgur.com/OCz1SoN.jpg

John-Connor

04-02-24, 05:07 PM

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ab/39/90/ab399001d4fd4381ec0281aa51aa1f38.gif

Citizen Rules

04-02-24, 05:15 PM

#44. Blade Runner 2049
rating_2
40/100
Saw it when it came out. Ugh! A cheap mediocre cinema within expensive package and propaganda flooded mass medias. There is nothing, a zero screenplay, zero idea. Its main purpose is showing Harrison Ford in couple of scenes to excite the monkey descendant part of the population.
A Golden Raspberry for the highly miscast Ryan Gosling would be natural.One positive for the movie...people stopped saying Deckard was a replicant after BR2049 came out.

CosmicRunaway

04-02-24, 05:47 PM

I've seen exactly half of the last 8 reveals.

Even though I was a little mixed on the film when I first saw it, and didn't rewatch it for the Countdown, You Were Never Really Here was on my shortlist when I first compiled it, though I did cut it early. I've seen Get Carter (and the remake), but don't really remember much of either.

The Player was nominated for me in one of the Personal Recommendations Hall of Fames, but partway through I realized I'd actually seen it before. I rewatched the entire thing even though it would likely be disqualified, and thought it was a solid satire with some great camera work. I might have considered it for my list if I'd thought about it, but for some reason this is a film that I keep forgetting about haha.

I definitely understand all the critiques people have about Blade Runner 2049, but I was thoroughly engaged with that film from start to finish. I didn't even want to see it originally, but I went anyway and was really glad that I hadn't completely dismissed it. The aesthetics are amazing, and I am not ashamed to admit that I had this at #2 on my list.

Seen: 28/58

My List: 7
02. Blade Runner 2049 (2017) - #44
05. Blue Ruin (2013) - #82
06. Mother (2009) - #67
08. Strange Days (1995) - #65
10. The Man from Nowhere (2010) - #87
15. Infernal Affairs (2002) - #91
21. Oldboy (2003) - #52
25. The Chaser (2008) - DNP 1-pointer

https://zuts.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/blade-runner-gosling.gif

Sedai

04-02-24, 05:56 PM

#44. Blade Runner 2049
2
40/100
Saw it when it came out. Ugh! A cheap mediocre cinema within expensive package and propaganda flooded mass medias. There is nothing, a zero screenplay, zero idea. Its main purpose is showing Harrison Ford in couple of scenes to excite the monkey descendant part of the population.
A Golden Raspberry for the highly miscast Ryan Gosling would be natural.

This is all a bunch of nonsense right here. Nice try at a troll, though. Probably not worth much more of response than that or I would defend against your silly claims...

WHITBISSELL!

04-02-24, 05:57 PM

"I didn't think BR2049 was all that bad" he said, right before flinging his poo.

Thief

04-02-24, 06:01 PM

AWARDS?

https://media.timeout.com/images/104035191/750/422/image.jpg

Blade Runner 2049 received a looot of nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:

Nine (9) Saturn Award nominations, including a win for Best Science Fiction Film
Eight (8) BAFTA Film Award nominations, including a win for Best Cinematography (Roger Deakins)
Seven (7) Critics Choice Award nominations, including Best Cinematography (Deakins)
Five (5) Academy Award nominations, including a win for Best Cinematography (Deakins)
Four (4) Satellite Award nominations, including Best Visual Effects
Three (3) Hollywood Film Awards, including Cinematography of the Year (Deakins)

Thief

04-02-24, 06:01 PM

AWARDS?

https://i.imgur.com/vsWjD6v.jpg

To Live and Die in L.A. received the following nominations or awards:

One (1) Audience Award at the Cognac Festival du Film Policier
Two (2) Stuntman Awards for Best Vehicular Stunt and Most Spectacular Sequence

stillmellow

04-02-24, 07:02 PM

rauldc14

04-02-24, 07:04 PM

I'm probably the only one here who is yet to see Blade Runner 2049.

To Live and Die in L.A. is decent but not a favorite.

stillmellow

04-02-24, 07:10 PM

This is all a bunch of nonsense right here. Nice try at a troll, though. Probably not worth much more of response than that or I would defend against your silly claims...

I'm somewhere in-between. I'm not nearly as harsh in my critiques against it, as it is a gorgeous film. Gosling was alright, but a bit miscast. It's definitely a noir, albeit one with a bloated budget.

Honestly, it probably would've worked better if they hadn't tried to connect it to the original movie, and made it an unrelated story set in the same world. Leave Harrison at home.

Miss Vicky

04-02-24, 07:19 PM

I haven't seen either of today's movies, or the original Blade Runner for that matter.

beelzebubble

04-02-24, 08:13 PM

I haven't seen Blade Runner 2049 or To Live and Die and LA. Well I saw a bit of To Live and Die, but I wasn't really enjoying it so I bailed. So nope and nope.

GulfportDoc

04-02-24, 08:48 PM

Blade Runner 2049 (2017)

The production itself is very impressive. The production design, cinematography, and special effects will certainly win some awards.

The story is engaging enough, and carries some suspense with it. However it would be helpful to watch the original Blade Runner from 1982 in order to understand the significance of some of the characters and plot points. The Rachel character, e.g., is integral to the understanding of the story. I had seen the original when it was released, but I couldn't remember the finer points of the story; only what a blade runner was, replicants, and the then wonderful special effects.

As others have mentioned, the pacing was too slow. It isn't that the movie was too long, but it was the way it was wound out. Still, 20-30 minutes could easily have been removed, and the narrative tightened up. The film may have relied too heavily on the assumption that the viewers would be very familiar with the base story. The story might have been explained a little more obviously for first time viewers, even to the point of using a narrator. "K" or another character might have offered some recaps.

The other contributor to its slowness was the relentless portrayal of the dystopian, bleak atmosphere, undergirded by the ponderous electronic droning music score. Those two elements weigh down the experience, and could have used some contrasting breaks to refresh the audience.

The time setting was anchored to the original, which was supposed to take place in 2019. So adding 30 years gave them the title. Yet no one could expect the conditions displayed in the new film to possibly occur in 2049- 31 years from now. A more apt year would be 2149 or even 2249. But as a sequel (which in itself was "mis-yeared") they were stuck with the time frame.

To sum, I thought it to be a good film, but being familiar with the original would be a big plus before watching Blade Runner 2049.

cricket

04-02-24, 08:55 PM

I've been a fan of To Live and Die in L.A. since it came out but it just missed my ballot.

The new Blade Runner was a chore for me to get through, just like the old Blade Runner.

crumbsroom

04-02-24, 09:04 PM

Kaplan

04-03-24, 03:44 AM

One positive for the movie...people stopped saying Deckard was a replicant after BR2049 came out.

Yeah, no. 2049 doesn’t retroactively alter Scott’s (or Dick’s) original ideas. And again, the whole theme of the movie is to question what makes someone human and so the uncertainty of Deckard’s humanity is the point. Is Deckard different than the replicants? Are not the replicants more “human” than many actual humans? If you can’t tell apart a replicant and a human, does it matter? Anyone is free to interpret the film as they see fit, but that central question of Deckard’s humanness must be there, or all you have are cool settings and some android being hunted.

Iroquois

04-03-24, 05:25 AM

no votes. loved blade runner 2049 when it came out (saw it twice in theatres), but i don't think it's held up on recent rewatches, either on its own terms or as a sequel to blade runner (it's arguably worse in the case of the latter as it struggles to either build on - or distinguish itself from - its predecessor in any genuinely positive way). i remember enjoying to live and die in l.a. but i haven't seen it in forever and have been meaning to do a rewatch - of all the titles i've said this about, this seems like the prime instance where i mean it.

ScarletLion

04-03-24, 05:58 AM

I watched To Live and Die recently and enjoyed it. But didn't make my ballot.

BR2049 is ace. It was a fine sequel worhty of that world. I didn't consider it neo-noir even though there are obvious paralells with noir photography, and also Citizen Kane.

honeykid

04-03-24, 09:02 AM

I'm probably the only one here who is yet to see Blade Runner 2049.
I think you're forgetting who you're playing with here? ;)

The Grifters is another I'd have put on my list had it occured to me. I've not seen it since the early 90's, but I didn't have a full list anyway so I'd have almost certainly added it.

One I did remember though, was To Live And Die In L.A..which I had a #8 and, looking at my list now, probably should've had at #7 though I doubt it matters in terms of placing?

Thief

04-03-24, 12:20 PM

7lists96pointsKiss Kiss Bang Bang (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/5236-kiss-kiss-bang-bang.html)Director
Shane Black, 2005

Starring
Robert Downey Jr., Val Kilmer, Michelle Monaghan, Corbin Bernsen

Thief

04-03-24, 12:20 PM

9lists96pointsInherent Vice (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/171274-inherent-vice.html)Director
Paul Thomas Anderson, 2014

Starring
Joaquin Phoenix, Josh Brolin, Owen Wilson, Katherine Waterston

Thief

04-03-24, 12:20 PM

TRAILERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__PnD1HWXSo

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang - When a two-bit crook is mistaken for an actor on a mystery film, he's paired with a hard-boiled private eye for training, but the two end up involved in a murderous conspiracy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZfs22E7JmI

Inherent Vice - A pot-smoking private detective investigates the disappearance of a former lover and her current beau which sends him on a trip through the 70s Los Angeles drug underworld.

Thief

04-03-24, 12:25 PM

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed seeing the dynamics between Downey, Jr. and Kilmer, and how the film uses a comedic, modern day approach to noir conventions. It's also infinitely quotable, including one of my favorite exchanges:

Perry: Jesus. Look up "idiot" in the dictionary. You know what you'll find?
Harry: A picture of me?
Perry: No! The definition of the word idiot, which you f-ucking are!

Love it! :laugh: I had it at #21.

Haven't seen Inherent Vice. One of two PTA films I haven't seen.

SEEN: 36/60
MY BALLOT: 11/25

1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10.
11.
12. Bound (#59)
13.
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.

Holden Pike

04-03-24, 12:29 PM

98322

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang was #76 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 2000s.

Miss Vicky

04-03-24, 12:32 PM

I've seen both movies. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang I thought was fun, but forgettable and it did not get my vote - though another Shane Black movie did.

Inherent Vice is a weird one for me. Besides being just a weird movie in general, it stands as the only Paul Thomas Anderson movie that I have ever liked. I even like it enough to put it on my ballot at #14.

Here's what I wrote when I rewatched it in 2019:

http://www.angelfire.com/music6/walteregan/MovieLog/inherentvicejpscream.gif

Inherent Vice (Paul Thomas Anderson, 2014)
Imdb (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1791528/?ref_=nv_sr_1?ref_=nv_sr_1)

Date Watched: 11/08/19
Cinema or Home: Home
Reason For Watching: Joaquin Phoenix
Rewatch: Yes.

"Fun" is not generally a word I'd use to describe the work of Paul Thomas Anderson, but it definitely applies here. It's pretty apparent that the cast had a damn good time making this film and none moreso than star Joaquin Phoenix, who gets to show off his comedic chops as the stoner hippie private investigator Doc Sportello (who is strongly reminiscent of Philip Marlowe from Robert Altman's The Long Goodbye).

The film itself views as not a whole lot more than a montage of awkward scenes and WTF moments, but on that front it is immensely appealing and engaging (which are also words that I do not normally associate with Anderson's work). But for all its entertainment value, its characters are rather lacking in depth and dimension. And this shallowness will forever relegate it to the category of movies that I like but do not love - which is still a whole lot more than can be said for any other Paul Thomas Anderson film.

3.5+

My Ballot:
2. You Were Never Really Here (#50)
3. The Man From Nowhere (#87)
4. The Departed (#53)
7. True Romance (#60)
12. Shutter Island (#86)
14. Inherent Vice (#41)
17. Killer Joe (2011) (#66)

Citizen Rules

04-03-24, 12:34 PM

My #21...https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fm.media-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FM%2FMV5BMGE4YTc1MDgtNjUzMi00NTQyLTg2NDgtMjBiMGQ5NzEzZGE5XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTI4MT k2NzMz._V1_.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=acff85af71389ee1f6d6eeb1a3b364e42b8789bd34a4f1c24c9b16ecaab1381e&ipo=images
Kiss Kiss Bang Bang

Robert Downey Jr. and Val Kilmer were great in this. Both played really fun characters, who had oodles of chemistry together. That was by far the best part of the movie.

I also liked the light comic elements and the overall story plot was well done too, never a dull moment. And I like Michelle Monaghan who held her own with Downey and Kilmer, not an easy task but she did good. I'll give it bonus points for the Christmas theme. And more bonus points for making the neo noir crime drama fun. It's a stylish film, with plenty of eye appeal and fast breaking action. Never a boring moment. And perhaps a good Christmas alternative movie too, ho ho.

Harry Lime

04-03-24, 12:50 PM

A lot of people seem to like Kiss Kiss Bang Bang a lot more than I do. It's still a decent flick, though. I'm a big fan of Pynchon and PTA so...Inherent Vice was made just for me. What might turn off some about this film appeals to me. Great adaptation considering the source material, skilled performances especially Phoenix - always right, and I felt the movie, the era, the vibe, and the anti-vibe. I had it at #20.

4. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (1976)
10. Alphaville (1965)
17. Fireworks (1997)
18. Pale Flower (1964)
19. The Grifters (1990)
20. Inherent Vice (2014)
22. The American Friend (1977)
25. Série noire (1979) - One pointer

Allaby

04-03-24, 12:52 PM

I liked Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang, but it didn't make my ballot. Inherent Vice was underwhelming and didn't really work for me.

Seen: 47/60

stillmellow

04-03-24, 12:56 PM

2 for 2 I've seen. 2 for 2 I didn't care for.

Citizen Rules

04-03-24, 12:59 PM

I've only seen 20/60

Thief

04-03-24, 01:15 PM

List facts...

At 6.6, Inherent Vice has one of the lowest IMDb ratings from the countdown, just below You Were Never Really Here and Killer Joe (both at 6.7), and just above Under the Silver Lake (6.5) and The Hot Spot (6.4).
Like I mentioned yesterday, the 4-point gap between yesterday's To Live and Die in L.A. and today's Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is one of the highest so far. Everything has been pretty close, with yesterday's 6-point gap being the highest so far. 4 is the second highest.

Sedai

04-03-24, 01:21 PM

Seen both but no votes for either for me. Really dug Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang, but didn't really connect with Inherent Vice.

Thief

04-03-24, 01:35 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... KISS KISS BANG BANG

https://film-authority.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/kiss-kiss-bang-bang-christmas-1068x707-1.jpg
RT – 86%, IMDb – 7.5

Roger Ebert said:

"I've seen the movie twice, foolishly thinking I might understand it better the second time. Understanding it is not the point. The dialogue exists not to explain anything or advance the story. It exists entirely in order to be dialogue. When the characters speak, it is an example of their verbal style, which is half film noir and half smart-ass. The dialogue, and just about everything else in the movie, is there for its own sake." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/kiss-kiss-bang-bang-2005))

Cameron Geiser, from Films Fatale, said:

"This is a film that lies snugly between parody and paragon when it comes to its Noir nature. Self aware, smarmy, and full of the snark that Robert Downey Jr. would become synonymous with in just a few years after this film’s release." (read full review here (https://www.filmsfatale.com/blog/2022/11/28/noir-november-kiss-kiss-bang-bang))

Holden Pike said:

"The plotting has nods to Chandler and pulps like Jim Thompson, if the milieu is by way of Tony Scott, and it's nothing but fun every step of the way. Each day is a chapter in our story, and each chapter has the same title as a Raymond Chandler novel [...] But this is a bit of self conscious fun where the plot truly don't matter all that much, an exercise in cinematic style where you know it's a movie that knows it's a movie and enjoy every frame of it anyway." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/296198-kiss_kiss_bang_bang.html))

Thief

04-03-24, 01:36 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... INHERENT VICE

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTUxNTEwMTczMV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNzY3MTI2MzE@._V1_.jpg
RT – 74%, IMDb – 6.6

Matt Zoller Seitz, from RogerEbert.com, said:

" owes a great deal to laid-back, character-and-atmosphere driven 1970s L.A. films such as [i]The Long Goodbye and Cisco Pike, but it never makes too big a deal of that lineage [...] Mostly it's a long, shaggy, knockabout comedy about eccentrics who pursue their own appetites and manias and indulge their private demons while remaining oblivious to their effect on others." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/inherent-vice-2014))

The Dallas Morning News said:

"[Inherent Vice] [...] is a dense deconstruction of noir — the dark moods and visuals, the narrative curlicues, the expectations we've developed over several decades. It's about a time: when the hangover from the heady 1960s bled into the grime of the malaised '70s, and a place: Los Angeles, fogged over with pot smoke and harder stuff, reeling from the Manson murders, living through its own overdose of weird." (read full review here (https://www.dallasnews.com/arts-entertainment/architecture/2015/01/07/inherent-vice-is-an-inherently-modern-film-noir/))

hello101 said:

"PTA's script is an account on deceit with cunning comicality and shaky thrills. It's never boring and constantly off-the-wall fun, the cinematography is stylish and it's great to see PTA's way in execution (which doesn't borrow too much from other famed directors like his previous films)." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1239647-inherent_vice.html))

SpelingError

04-03-24, 01:40 PM

I haven't seen Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.

Inherent Vice is pretty good, but it didn't make my ballot.

Thief

04-03-24, 01:43 PM

AWARDS?

https://www.intofilm.org/intofilm-production/scaledcropped/970x546https%3A/s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/images.cdn.filmclub.org/film__4419-kiss-kiss-bang-bang--hi_res-af7d5d8a.jpg/film__4419-kiss-kiss-bang-bang--hi_res-af7d5d8a.jpg

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang received several nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:

Five (5) Saturn Award nominations, including Best Action/Adventure/Thriller Film
Five (5) Satellite Award nominations, a win for Best Supporting Actor (Val Kilmer)
One (1) Empire Award for Best Thriller
One (1) Cannes Film Festival nomination for the Golden Camera Award
One (1) Golden Schmoes Award nomination for Best Comedy of the Year

Holden Pike

04-03-24, 01:44 PM

Considered both, voted for neither. I fell madly in love with Shane Black's Kiss Kiss Bang Bang when it was released, and though I still love it I have come to like The Nice Guys even more - though I didn't vote for it, either. Figured none of them needed my help to make the cut, especially with all the PTA love around MoFo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF9GE50ioFo&t=25s

Thief

04-03-24, 01:45 PM

AWARDS?

https://media.timeout.com/images/102085665/image.jpg

Inherent Vice received several nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:

Two (2) Academy Award nominations, including Best Adapted Screenplay
Two (2) Saturn Award nominations, including Best Supporting Actor (Josh Brolin)
Four (4) Critics Choice Award nominations, including Best Supporting Actor (Brolin)
Three (3) Satellite Award nominations, including Best Supporting Actress (Katherine Waterston)
One (1) Golden Globe Award nomination for Best Actor (Joaquin Phoenix)

cricket

04-03-24, 02:05 PM

I didn't like Inherent Vice or Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. My taste aside, they both seem like good fits for this countdown.

Thief

04-03-24, 02:24 PM

Stats: Pit Stop #6
https://i.imgur.com/1Dl2pZD.jpg

-

After hitting our sixth pit stop (60), here's were we are now:

Decade Breakdown

1960s = 11
1970s = 8
1980s = 4
1990s = 19
2000s = 9
2010s = 9
2020s = 0

Strong showing from the 2010s in this last batch, but the 1990s seem to be running away with this. Nothing recent, also. Is there a neo-noir film from the 2020s you expect to make the list?

Recurring Directors

William Friedkin = 3
Martin Scorsese = 2
Christopher Nolan = 2

William Friedkin becomes the first director to get three entries in the countdown, but nobody else so far.

John W Constantine

04-03-24, 02:25 PM

Pretty sure I saw inherent vice the first weekend it came out and haven't watched it since. Looking back on some of my watch list from the past, I'm surprised the amount of time that passes without watching something again. Another entry in the countdown I could have sworn I watched it originally in 2017 but realized it was 2014. Crazy.

Holden Pike

04-03-24, 02:34 PM

Strong showing from the 2010s in this last batch, but the 1990s seem to be running away with this. Nothing recent, also. Is there a neo-noir film from the 2020s you expect to make the list?
About the only one I would bet had a shot is Del Toro's remake of Nightmare Alley (2021). Though I would have thought it would be in the bottom fifty, were it coming on the collective list.

The only one I seriously considered for my ballot was Vengeance (2022). I was going to throw it on as my twenty-fifth pick, figuring it would at least be highlighted as a one-pointer. I like it a lot. Very clever, funny, but still sneaky powerful modern deconstruction of the genre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg8XnThf0bE

John-Connor

04-03-24, 03:08 PM

"Motto Panukeiku!" :laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJv6QfgML9k

WHITBISSELL!

04-03-24, 03:24 PM

2 for 2. I missed the bus when it came to Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. Ended up watching it a couple of years after the buzz had died down. There is a lot to be said for being part of a communal experience and even though I never thought of it as a bad movie maybe I would have liked it more if I had been part of the inaugural appreciation.

But I did like Inherent Vice. I like most PTA movies and Phoenix is worthy of a watch in just about anything he's in. Never read the Thomas Pynchon novel and as someone said before it doesn't delve too deeply and does lean towards the episodic. But it's a rock solid cast and I liked Josh Brolin as "Bigfoot" Bjornsen and even the minor players seemed perfectly cast. Plus I thought it featured two of the more alluring female characters in Shasta and Sortilège. Something about them really appealed to me. This is another movie I would have made room for on my ballot if only I had remembered. Plus The Nice Guys as Holden mentioned above.

38 of 60 seen.

WHITBISSELL!

04-03-24, 03:33 PM

Is there a neo-noir film from the 2020s you expect to make the list?I don't know about the 2020's but your question made me remember Small Town Crime (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5751998/). It might have made my list on John Hawkes' name alone. But it was a really decent neo-noir all on it's own.

John-Connor

04-03-24, 03:44 PM

Is there a neo-noir film from the 2020s you expect to make the list?
I expected;
No Sudden Move 2021, The Batman 2022 and Decision to Leave 2022 in the beginning but not anymore in this stage of the countdown.

Holden Pike

04-03-24, 04:51 PM

I expected;
No Sudden Move 2021, The Batman 2022 and Decision to Leave 2022 in the beginning but not anymore in this stage of the countdown.
I still expect/hope for a couple of Soderbergh flicks, but No Sudden Moves ain't one of them.

Thursday Next

04-03-24, 05:10 PM

I had one 2020s film way down at #25. Someone else must have voted for it but I doubt it is coming in the top half of the list.

But John Wick 4 still has a chance, right...?

CosmicRunaway

04-03-24, 05:17 PM

When I was thinking about what sort of films I consider to be neo-noir for the Countdown, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang was the first film that came to mind. I don't absolutely love the film liked I used to years ago, but I still think Val Kilmer and Robert Downey Jr. have great chemistry together, and Kilmer's performance in particular makes the film an absolute joy to watch.

The black comedy and noir elements work incredibly well together, and the more I reflected on the film while trying to decide on where it belonged in the rankings, the more I appreciated it. I don't think any other film on my list has has left such a lasting impression either, given that I still occasionally quote lines from it years after the fact. It was my #3, though honestly it probably should've been #2.

Seen: 29/60

My List: 8
02. Blade Runner 2049 (2017) - #44
03. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005) - #42
05. Blue Ruin (2013) - #82
06. Mother (2009) - #67
08. Strange Days (1995) - #65
10. The Man from Nowhere (2010) - #87
15. Infernal Affairs (2002) - #91
21. Oldboy (2003) - #52
25. The Chaser (2008) - DNP 1-pointer

https://64.media.tumblr.com/0f0eadba5e62c6f8c739ea7080bbe11a/d59e5ab29b29969c-d7/s540x810/61fcabc07f3aaa01f5a782134e2d6d3eb49c9426.gifv

Thief

04-03-24, 05:39 PM

I had one 2020s film way down at #25. Someone else must have voted for it but I doubt it is coming in the top half of the list.

But John Wick 4 still has a chance, right...?

I know it's a tongue-in-cheek comment, but I'll say that only two John Wick films got votes. I won't say which, and I won't say if they made it yet. Have fun with that :laugh:

Thursday Next

04-03-24, 05:57 PM

I know it's a tongue-in-cheek comment, but I'll say that only two John Wick films got votes. I won't say which, and I won't say if they made it yet. Have fun with that :laugh:

And I won't say whether any John Wick films were on my list... :shifty:

Thief

04-03-24, 06:12 PM

And I won't say whether any John Wick films were on my list... :shifty:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8c/3f/d2/8c3fd2b2d2f9943dbcfa0506218f0e86.gif

beelzebubble

04-03-24, 07:21 PM

Siddon

04-03-24, 08:39 PM

Is Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang the one with Charlize Theron in a golden catsuit? I remember that scene in a movie I liked, but I don't remember the name of it. So obviously, its not on my list.
Inherent Vice is a super weird detective movie. I understood what I was looking at and the jokes. But my friend was hating it, so we left in the middle. I never caught up with it later. I didn't find it that entertaining. Its not on my list

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1p9idpwzK4

That's two days in the Valley, Shane Black did Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and he does the Buddy noirs like Lethal Weapon, Nice Guys, and The Long Kiss Goddnight.

beelzebubble

04-03-24, 08:50 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1p9idpwzK4

That's two days in the Valley, Shane Black did Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and he does the Buddy noirs like Lethal Weapon, Nice Guys, and The Long Kiss Goddnight.
That was a fun movie. Thanks, Siddon!

Thief

04-03-24, 09:42 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1p9idpwzK4

That's two days in the Valley,

Now that I think of it, that's another one I could've voted for.

PHOENIX74

04-04-24, 01:36 AM

The last four have been big reveals, all of which I've seen - and two of which I voted for :

44. Blade Runner 2049 - I spent all of the time previous to this film's release thinking it was going to be a big disappointment, or if not, at least nowhere near the quality of the original Blade Runner. Belated sequels often have a habit of being letdowns, but Blade Runner 2049 has to go down as one of the best ever made. I was completely blown away by this film, every aspect of which was pretty much perfect. It could have just looked great, but be found wanting in narrative or meaning - but that wasn't the case. It has a fascinating story, is intelligent and thoughtful, and the direction by Denis Villeneuve is inspired. Great film - one of my favourites, and I can't wait to see if people are still talking about it a few decades from now, in the same way we talk about the original Blade Runner. I had it at #21 on my list.

43. To Live and Die in L.A. - A nice movie about a thrill-seeking detective with very conflicted morals going out for revenge against the counterfeiter who killed his partner. Solid movie from William Friedkin, who really liked to mix things up, and a great early role for Willem Dafoe as a bad guy who is as complex as the detective. Oh, and I can't not mention that car chase when mentioning To Live and Die in L.A. - it took ages to choreograph and film, and if you pay attention you'll notice that everyone is driving on the wrong side of the road. Had a deep dive when this film was nominated in a Hall of Fame, and the making of the movie is as interesting as the movie itself. No vote from me.

42. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang - Very funny movie, with Val Kilmer and Robert Downey Jr. proving that they have great chemistry, playing off of each other in a fun and at times insane way - such and enjoyable experience to watch. This film has a pretty good film noir narrative as well, with a lightning pace. Loved it the first time I saw it, and each subsequent time after that - it never fails to get laughs out of me, and each time I mention it (like now) I have a strong desire to grab it and watch it again. What better compliment is there for a film? I had it at #19 on my list.

41. Inherent Vice - Man, this took me a few watches before I had the tangled story straightened out in my mind - but it's probably meant to be a little like that. With some neo noir films that lean heavily into mystery, I'm often not happy until I understand all of the motives and everything that happens down to the last detail. Inherent Vice heads off into many directions at once, with a wacky stoner private investigator played by Joaquin Phoenix who often looks as confused as I am. Regardless, I loved this movie (which is why I watched it so many times) - it's very funny, unusual and looks fantastic. A real change of pace for Paul Thomas Anderson. No vote from me though.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen : 37/60
I'd never even heard of : 9/60
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 14/60
Films from my list : 4

#42 - My #19 - Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005)
#44 - My #21 - Blade Runner 2049 (2017)
#52 - My #11 - Oldboy (2003)
#81 - My #17 - Brick (2005)

Little Ash

04-04-24, 02:17 AM

Fwiw (and I had to check), Inherent Vice was my #19. Um, I really enjoyed it. I had listened to the source material as an audio book in the months before its release, and I recall being a little off-kilter on the first viewing, but then went back and watched it the next week for a re-watch, and it gelled just right.

For whatever reason, I've never seen To Live and Die in L.A. I think it came out in just that era where it wasn't old enough for me to grock it to be a classic by my teen years, and I was really young when it came out. (I've noticed I'm very shaky on the intelligent, adult films from, I'm ballparking, 80-88, outside of oscar dramas you can feel okay showing children, like Amadeus or The Last Emperor).

Bladerunner 2049 - I still don't know how I feel about this one. Not terrible enough to a blatantly bad idea, but also not good enough to have really stuck with me. It's hard to guess how, in time, the positives or negatives will end up being what we, in general, will remember it for.

I remember seeing trailers for Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang, but never went to see the movie. I think my impression was, it was basically in the Pulp Fiction influenced set of noirs at the time, which put it in a category of movies that I'd be up for watching if other people I knew were interested in it, for the most part.

Iroquois

04-04-24, 07:51 AM

no votes. as much as i've liked most other films shane black's been involved in, kiss kiss bang bang just doesn't click for me no matter how many chances i give it even as recently as last christmas. his films have always blended cleverness with darkness in ways that walk a tonal knife edge but here the balance is severely off in just about every regard. not bad, just...disappointing. seen inherent vice once and liked it well enough - keep meaning to do a full pta rewatch but idk somehow that filmography seems too daunting despite the relatively small number of films. they're not even that long.

Thief

04-04-24, 12:40 PM

8lists100pointsNight Moves (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/32042-night-moves.html)Director
Arthur Penn, 1975

Starring
Gene Hackman, Jennifer Warren, Edward Binns, Susan Clark

Thief

04-04-24, 12:40 PM

9lists103pointsThe Nice Guys (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/290250-the-nice-guys.html)Director
Shane Black, 2016

Starring
Ryan Gosling, Russell Crowe, Angourie Rice, Margaret Qualley

Thief

04-04-24, 12:41 PM

TRAILERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdlLWziBggM

Night Moves - An L.A. private investigator is hired to track down the runaway daughter of an aging B-movie star, which leads him into Florida and a more sinister mystery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQR5zsLHbYw

The Nice Guys - A bumbling private eye and a hired enforcer become unlikely partners as they investigate the disappearance of a young woman which sends them on a trip through the 70s Los Angeles underworld.

Thief

04-04-24, 12:41 PM

Ok, here's the thing... I love The Nice Guys. I saw it a while ago and thought it was hilarious. Ryan Gosling is brilliant in it, and the pairing with Russell Crowe is great. Easily one of my favorite comedies of the last 10 or so years. I saw Kiss Kiss Bang Bang after this, and even though I liked it a lot as well, I would still take The Nice Guys over it. What I don't get is... WHY THE HECK DID I PUT KISS KISS BANG BANG AND FORGOT TO PUT THE NICE GUYS!?! :furious: :laugh: The only explanation I have is that I had it, but was moving titles around and accidentally deleted. There's no other explanation for that. Regardless, the bottom line is that I love it and it should've been on my list. I will probably share a bigger review later.

I haven't seen Night Moves, but it's one of those iconic neo-noirs I wanted to get to before the countdown, but I just couldn't.

SEEN: 37/62
MY BALLOT: 11/25

1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10.
11.
12. Bound (#59)
13.
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.

Thief

04-04-24, 12:41 PM

Again, you really couldn't plan these pairings any better, the serendipity of it all. Not only do we get a Shane Black 1-2 punch between yesterday and today, but we also get four films dealing with the seedy underbelly of Hollywood and acting, two films about wasted/jaded private eyes, two films with unlikely pairings working together, and two modern films set in 1970s. It's beautiful!

Allaby

04-04-24, 12:56 PM

Seen and liked both, but neither made my ballot.

Seen: 49/62

Tugg

04-04-24, 01:08 PM

My #3 The Nice Guys (2016), didn't expect to see it this high.

Holden Pike

04-04-24, 01:18 PM

98341

The Nice Guys was #70 on the MoFo Top 100 Comedies List.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyR-UqRom-c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49ifhCQvpVQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaFY62uxq_c

Miss Vicky

04-04-24, 01:21 PM

While I don't love The Nice Guys the way many on this forum do, I think it's a really solid piece of entertainment. It certainly helps that I'm a big fan of Russell Crowe anyway, but he and Ryan Gosling have absolutely superb chemistry in this and it makes for a really fun ride. Incidentally, this isn't the only entry on my ballot for either actor and I voted for it at #13.

Here's what I wrote when I rewatched it for 2010s Countdown:

https://www.angelfire.com/music6/walteregan/2010s/niceguys.gif

The Nice Guys (Shane Black, 2016)
(Rewatch)

This is a really fun movie, though it is perhaps a bit overly long and a little convoluted. It's got a great retro vibe to it, lots of atmosphere, and memorable characters. In a lot of ways, it reminds me of Inherent Vice - though that movie is considerably more convoluted than this one. But the main attraction here is the great comedic chemistry between Russell Crowe and Ryan Gosling - the former a straight-forward, no bullshit strong-arm guy and the other a bumbling private detective. They are a blast to watch.

I will say that didn't vote for this in the comedy countdown because it'd been too long since I'd last seen it and it's definitely not a lock for this, but it stands a pretty decent chance of making the cut because I do love me some Russell Crowe.

4

My Ballot:
2. You Were Never Really Here (#50)
3. The Man From Nowhere (#87)
4. The Departed (#53)
7. True Romance (#60)
12. Shutter Island (#86)
13. The Nice Guys (#39)
14. Inherent Vice (#41)
17. Killer Joe (2011) (#66)

John-Connor

04-04-24, 01:29 PM

https://64.media.tumblr.com/3757e3e11399978d461de30776b95d97/6fabc0048f48193d-fd/s540x810/0124aff86a016b9a40800250c42888fbc06a7e3d.gif

Actor Stats Pit Stop

98343

3
Michael Caine (Mona Lisa, The Dark Knight, Get Carter)
Dennis Hopper (The American Friend, Red Rock West, True Romance)

2
Robin Wright (Blade Runner 2049, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo)
Melanie Griffith (Night Moves, Body Double)
Patricia Arquette (True Romance, Lost Highway)
Gina Gershon (Bound, Killer Joe)
Bill Paxton (A Simple Plan, One False Move)
Billy Bob Thornton (A Simple Plan, One False Move)
Brad Pitt (True Romance, Thelma & Louise)
Dean Stockwell (To Live and Die in L.A., The Player)
Eric Roberts (The Dark Knight, Inherent Vice)
Gene Hackman (The French Connection, Night Moves)
Gary Oldman (True Romance, The Dark Knight)
Jeremy Piven (The Grifters, The Player)
J.T. Walsh (The Grifters, Red Rock West)
Joaquin Phoenix (Inherent Vice, You Were Never Really Here)
Leonardo DiCaprio (The Departed, Shutter Island)
Matt Damon (The Talented Mr. Ripley, The Departed)
Michael K. Williams (Gone Baby Gone, Inherent Vice)
Michelle Monaghan (Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, Gone Baby Gone)
Roy Scheider (The French Connection, Klute)
Robert Mitchum (The Friends of Eddie Coyle, Cape Fear)
Ryan Gosling (The Nice Guys, Blade Runner 2049)
Ted Levine (The Silence of the Lambs, Shutter Island)
Tim Robbins (The Player, Mystic River)
Tom Sizemore (Strange Days, True Romance)
Vincent D'Onofrio (The Player, Strange Days)
Wayne Knight (Basic Instinct, Dead Again)
William Fichtner (The Dark Knight, Strange Days)
William Petersen (To Live and Die in LA, Manhunter)
Won Bin (The Man from Nowhere, Mother)

https://64.media.tumblr.com/98ff13a793e8a74b4cd1cf760268e06d/3876da4028b22ca7-a8/s540x810/4a875999c9d1103fa4b6d3abec86916ae9d2e91f.gif

SpelingError

04-04-24, 01:38 PM

Haven't seen either film.

Citizen Rules

04-04-24, 01:56 PM

I haven't seen either of today's reveals. Night Moves sounds like something I might dig.

Thief

04-04-24, 02:13 PM

THE NICE GUYS
(2016, Black)

https://i.imgur.com/QzUk6MT.jpg

Holland March: "Look on the bright side. Nobody got hurt."
Jackson Healy: "People got hurt."
Holland March: "I'm saying, I think they died quickly. So I don't think they got hurt."

Buddy cop films have been a big thing in Hollywood primarily since the 80's. Since then, films like Lethal Weapon, 48 Hrs, Rush Hour, Tango & Cash, and The Last Boy Scout (to name a few) have sought to find the perfect balance between action and violence with good-natured humor and comedy. Although the results might vary and times have changed, if there's one thing that's important in these type of films is the chemistry between the "buddies" and the naturality of their dialogue. That's where Shane Black, director and/or writer of some of the above, flourishes.

Set in 1977, The Nice Guys follows Holland March (Ryan Gosling), a bumbling-yet-clever private investigator, and Jackson Healy (Russell Crowe), a tough-yet-well-meaning enforcer, as they get together to investigate the murder of a porn actress, also with the help of March's 13-year-old daughter, Holly (Angourie Rice). Their investigation leads them into the seedy world of the porn business and political corruption of Los Angeles.

The film has so many things in its favor that I don't know where to start. Both Gosling and Crowe are perfect in their roles, exuding equal parts of charm and insanity. Their chemistry is excellent, and they play so well off each other that you just want to see more of this pairing. Rice is a revelation as March's daughter. Her performance is effortless and confident. Black's dialogue is witty, fast-paced, and edgy, and his direction manages to find that perfect balance I spoke of in my first paragraph between great, violent action and good natured humor. And even though he doesn't bask in it for too long, there are hints of more serious undertones in both March and Healy's characters that add layers to the film.

All in all, The Nice Guys is a perfect example of a sub-genre that I thought was more or less dead. It's a pleasant watch that's both funny, charming, and thrilling, and probably the best action/comedy I've seen in a long time. I don't want to jinx things and ask for a sequel, but I really would love to see a sequel. That wouldn't hurt, right?

Grade: 4

Holden Pike

04-04-24, 02:37 PM

This is another one that, objectively, should be in the canon of the top dozen Neo Noirs of all time…and we have it at number forty. Oy.

98344

Arthur Penn’s Night Moves perfectly deconstructs the private detective genre for a more modern and uncertain age. Gene Hackman’s Harry Moseby is a former football player turned gumshoe, but as he is goaded at one point by his wife’s boyfriend, he is no mythic Sam Spade figure. In the Watergate era he can find a missing person, but uncovering the true motives and conspiracies around him are existential dead ends. As far as the detective plot goes, a faded minor Hollywood starlet (Janet Ward) hires him to find her wayward teenage daughter Delly (Melanie Griffith). She’s not really worried about her, but she is living off of her trust fund and needs her to be home to get the full benefit of that wealth. Moseby searches around the edges of the film business, mechanics and stunt men, until the trail leads to the Florida Keys and Delly’s stepfather (John Crawford) and his current girlfriend (Jennifer Warren). Delly is there, but then Harry becomes embroiled in some kind of smuggling operation. In the end, Harry isn’t as bright as he thinks he is. None of us are.

98345

A fantastic, funky, unsettling tone and another top tier Hackman performance make Night Moves more of a fever dream than a puzzle to be solved. I had it all the way up at number four on my ballot, good for twenty-two of its one-hundred points. That makes ten of mine, plus my one-pointer.

HOLDEN'S BALLOT
4. Night Moves (#40)
7. The Grifters (#45)
8. One False Move (#73)
9. Blast of Silence (#48)
12. To Live & Die in L.A. (#43)
13. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15. Shallow Grave (#95)
17. Dead Again (#90)
22. The Hot Spot (#85)
24. Blue Ruin (#82)
25. Johnny Handsome (DNP)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FADaTeWb08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDT8QgbZVG8

ScarletLion

04-04-24, 02:57 PM

Nice Guys neo noir? Would never have even entertained the thought of it being anything other than a comedy.

Night Moves is good. But I couldn't stop thinking about the scene in the middle that is identical to 'Jaws'. There must be a reason for it but it's not homage as they were released within weeks of each other:

https://twitter.com/WorldCinemania/status/1542849248802344961

Holden Pike

04-04-24, 03:04 PM

Night Moves is good. But I couldn't stop thinking about the scene in the middle that is identical to 'Jaws'. There must be a reason for it but it's not homage as they were released within weeks of each other:
Those GIFs are from three different scenes, so I don't know what you mean about the middle of the movie or identical? That first shot has a similar angle, yes, but how many ways are there to shoot a small boat? Searching for something at night from a boat....OK. And dropping a marker versus a gigantic shark impossibly pulling them along at high speeds?

Vaguely similar, sure. "Identical"? No way.

Thief

04-04-24, 03:19 PM

This is another one that, objectively, should be in the canon of the top dozen Neo Noirs of all time…and we have it at number forty. Oy.

Thanks for the great write-up, as usual! I think that we can assume that this is more a matter of exposure than quality. The best thing is that we're putting the spotlight on it, and hopefully more people (me included!) will catch up with it now.

honeykid

04-04-24, 03:27 PM

The only film I've seen of the last 4 was KKBB, a film I was so up for before release and fell completely flat for me. I found it a huge disappointment.

Thief

04-04-24, 04:04 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... NIGHT MOVES

https://i0.wp.com/lscep.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/night-moves.jpg
RT – 84%, IMDb – 7.1

Roger Ebert said:

"What [Gene Hackman] brings to Night Moves is crucial; he must be absolutely sure of his identity as a free-lance gumshoe, even while all of his craft is useless and all of his hunches are based on ignorance of the big picture. Maybe the movie is saying that the old film noir faith is dead, that although in Chandler's words 'down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid', when this man goes down those streets he is blind-sided by a plot that has no respect for him." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-night-moves-1975))

Jonathan Murray, from Cineaste, said:

"In building a formally ingenious, emotionally generous modern-day noir around a man who, in Paula’s words, persists in 'asking the wrong questions', [Arthur] Penn, [Alan] Sharp, and [Gene] Hackman succeed in posing searching ones of their viewers, whether in 1975 or today." (read full review here (https://www.cineaste.com/winter2017/night-moves))

Takoma11 said:

"The plot is also a great example of neo-noir storytelling, where events and characters might be connected, but then again might not. It's the kind of film that both satisfies the detective film desire to see something solved and closure gained, but at the same time posits that so much of what happens is wasteful, needless, and arbitrary. The last act particularly nails this dynamic." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2238609-night-moves.html))

Thief

04-04-24, 04:04 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... THE NICE GUYS

https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/the-nice-guys-ryan-gosling-russell-crowe-shane-black.jpg
RT – 91%, IMDb – 7.4

Brian Tallerico, from RogerEbert.com, said:

"What I think people will underrate the most about The Nice Guys is the choreography of the entire piece. Without spoiling specific details, the final sequence features Gosling chasing something and falling on car hoods, into windshields, and over his own two feet. He’s far from the suave hero you’ll see in a dozen other summer blockbusters this year [...] And it’s his gift for slapstick, combined with his fantastic chemistry with Crowe, that makes these Nice Guys worth a look." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-nice-guys-2016))

David M. Higgins II, from The Southern Maryland Chronicle, said:

"The film’s blend of comedy, action, and noir elements, combined with its 1970s setting, offers a distinct experience for viewers. Its portrayal of the chemistry between Gosling and Crowe’s characters adds depth to the narrative, making it more than just a typical buddy comedy." (read full review here (https://southernmarylandchronicle.com/2023/11/18/the-decision-reel-the-nice-guys-an-underrated-gem-in-comedy-and-noir/))

Iroquois said:

"While The Nice Guys isn't quite the action-comedy masterpiece that I was hoping for, it still feels like the Black movie that I've been waiting for. Even without the inherently goofy '70s backdrop, this feels like a film where he's managed to balance and fine-tune his quirks into something that genuinely fires on all cylinders." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1523841-the-nice-guys.html))

ScarletLion

04-04-24, 04:06 PM

Those GIFs are from three different scenes, so I don't know what you mean about the middle of the movie or identical? That first shot has a similar angle, yes, but how many ways are there to shoot a small boat? Searching for something at night from a boat....OK. And dropping a marker versus a gigantic shark impossibly pulling them along at high speeds?

Vaguely similar, sure. "Identical"? No way.

I realise they are from different scenes. I just find it a coincidence that they look so similar and were released within weeks. I think they are way more similar than 'vaguely similar'.

Holden Pike

04-04-24, 04:08 PM

I realise they are from different scenes. I just find it a coincidence that they look so similar and were released within weeks. I think they are way more similar than 'vaguely similar'.

If you show more than two seconds of them via a GIF, no, they are not. Vaguely similar is accurate.

ScarletLion

04-04-24, 04:11 PM

If you show more than two seconds of them via a GIF, no, they are not. Vaguely similar is accurate.

ok man, chillout.

Harry Lime

04-04-24, 04:28 PM

Night moves is as neo noir as it comes and I like the film, the performances, the style, and how it approached the genre, I didn't quite like it enough to include on my list. As good as The Nice Guys is I don't feel that it fits the genre. But I guess I'm wrong. Wikipedia does say "neo noir" in the first sentence. Which one of you edited that? Heh.

Thief

04-04-24, 04:50 PM

AWARDS?

https://rogermooresmovienation.files.wordpress.com/2022/04/hack1.jpg

Night Moves received the following nominations:

One (1) BAFTA Film Award nomination for Best Actor (Gene Hackman)
One (1) New York Film Critics Circle Award nomination for Best Actor (Hackman)

Thief

04-04-24, 04:50 PM

AWARDS?

https://variety.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/the-nice-guys.jpg

The Nice Guys received several nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:

Three (3) Empire Award nominations, including Best Screenplay
Three (3) IGN Summer Movie Award nominations, including a win for Best Comedy
Two (2) Critics Choice Award nominations, including Best Comedy
Two (2) Jupiter Award nominations, including Best International Film
One (1) Saturn Award nomination for Best Action/Adventure Film

Little Ash

04-04-24, 05:38 PM

I don't have a good explanation why Night Moves wasn't on my ballot. Either it was because I only watched it once or because so many of the great 70s neo-noirs were just wiped from my mind when I was making my ballot.

The Nice Guys... Haven't seen it. I thought it was supposed to be pure buddy cop parody (or comedic subversion). I'm realizing the only Shane Black movies (counting both directed and written) I've seen only... The Monster Squad (a few times when I was really young) and Last Action Hero (and only once after it came to home video, was not a fan. No one was a fan). I guess I probably saw, like, 5 minutes of one of the Lethal Weapons on TV once.

stillmellow

04-04-24, 05:50 PM

Night Moves is another one of those movies I've been meaning to see, but haven't yet.

I liked Nice Guys, but didn't consider in Neo Noir. It probably wouldn't have cracked the top 25. It is very funny though.

beelzebubble

04-04-24, 06:07 PM

I haven't seen Night Moves but it looks good.
I have seen The Nice Guys. Loved Russel Crowe and Ryan Goslings chemistry. Found the scene, where the little boy finds the beautiful woman dead from a car crash laid out like a pin-up, unpleasant, disturbing and pandering. It was not on my list.

mrblond

04-04-24, 06:34 PM

During the last several days, I saw #49. Get Carter and #46. A Simple Plan. Liked them both.
#40. Night Moves been on my to watch list for many years. Maybe, it is a high time for it. In the preliminary thread period, I've watched mostly 1940-59 movies to catch up and postponed Night Moves again.

Aside of these films, I'm more and more confused during the last rounds what other stuff made the list so high. Don't even want to mention the title at #39. Ugh again.

edarsenal

04-04-24, 07:14 PM

Coming in at #8
https://64.media.tumblr.com/5b5faca8ae98f3c3bb2079190248c374/tumblr_ozc0trdCod1vqr73ao3_640.gif
45. The Grifters Grew up loving a great conman film starting in my wee youth with The Sting and ran wild with the premise. So, in my mid-twenties, sitting in the theater multiple times when this came out became a serious favorite. With an underbelly vibe and cruel violence when cons are found out, The Grifters remains taut with tension and drama, from the illicit relationship between mother (Anjelica Huston) and son (John Cusack) grifters and the intrusive addition of Annette Benning's sexually charged huntress of a good thing.
It's been a solid two decades since seeing this heavily watched neo-noir, and had I had time for a rewatch, this would have been a whole lot longer. One of a few instant inclusions on my list

44. Blade Runner 2049 I was far more impressed than my initially doubtful first time I saw this. It took a second one to sit back and enjoy it, and my enjoyment grew on the following couple of rewatches. For me, they retained both the enigmatic elements and the visual brilliance of the original, and this was an excellent continuation storyline.

43. To Live and Die in L.A. Creates an almost Anti Cops and Robbers film as our lead cop is really more corrupt and dangerous than the bad guy that he's willing to commit crime after crime to pursue.
Freidkin's willingness to explore police corruption when everyone else celebrated Cowboy Tactics in a grand style without repercussions during the eighties was an intriguing and worthwhile choice.

Coming in at #13
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/56b10ca7d210b8b461e5ba02/1550054484374-REDOT4B325SQHZJHATGP/kisskiss2.gif
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-njOOM2Fj34g/UfzTzkmj6OI/AAAAAAAAOFA/td9QD_xGV0g/s1600/idiot-dictionary.gif
42. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005) I am very much a fan of Shane Black's comedic, nuanced neo-noir, with fourth-wall-breaking, beautifully delivered, sharp-witted dialogue featuring Kilmer and Downey. Michelle Monaghan is all kinds of wonderful. I can watch this again and again.

Coming in at #21
https://grantland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/clble.gif
Inherent Vice (2014) To quote from Thief's post, Matt Zoller Seitz, from RogerEbert.com, said: Mostly it's a long, shaggy, knockabout comedy about eccentrics who pursue their own appetites and manias and indulge their private demons while remaining oblivious to their effect on others. And it works BEAUTIFULLY for me.

Coming in at #20
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/19/24/97/192497551716a2cdaeb557677ab08f6c.gif
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F42f9a779-ed46-4464-a7a0-dbd76a3b716e_480x200.gif
39. The Nice Guys And speaking of Black, I'd be remiss if I didn't include this heavily rewatched bumbling detective work amusingly displayed by Ryan Gosling with Russell Crowe's stoic Enforcer and the real brains, Gosling's daughter played by Angourie Rice.

Seen 32 out of 62 (51.61%)
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6. The Grifters (1990) #45
7.
8. Mystic River (2003) #68
9.
10.
11.
12.
13. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005) #42
14. Mother (2009) #67
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20. The Nice Guys (2016) #39
21. Inherent Vice (2014) #41
22.
23.
24.Basic Instinct (1992) #70
25. Things to do in Denver When You're Dead (1995) One-Pointer

WHITBISSELL!

04-04-24, 07:39 PM

2 for 2 today. Night Moves was a blind date of sorts. Knew next to nothing about it before watching it. But hey, Gene Hackman. I'm having a hard time remembering a bad flick the man was in. Heartbreakers? Or maybe the one that convinced him to retire from acting 20 years ago, Welcome to Mooseport? Anyway NM is what people should think of when anyone mentions neo-noir.

I knew more about The Nice Guys before watching it but it still turned out to be a pleasant surprise. I've always enjoyed films with a loosey goosey feel to them before sudden, inexplicable violence intrudes on the fun times. That's one thing about this movie. It was set in the 70's and it artfully captures that vibe.

40 of 62 seen so far.

WHITBISSELL!

04-04-24, 08:10 PM

THE NICE GUYS

Their chemistry is excellent, and they play so well off each other that you just want to see more of this pairing .... I don't want to jinx things and ask for a sequel, but I really would love to see a sequel. That wouldn't hurt, right?No it wouldn't. Hollywood is busily making followups to the most underwhelming or downright craptacular films. So why can't they do the same with perfectly sequel worthy pictures like this one?

Holden Pike

04-05-24, 12:47 PM

Miss Vicky

04-05-24, 12:57 PM

I usually only end up with like 9 or 10 films from each of my ballots making it onto countdowns, but I've already had 8 show up so far for this one. There are 5 more that I think are definitely locks and another 6 or 7 that could make it. I am starting to get worried that my #1 didn't make the cut, though.

Thief

04-05-24, 01:06 PM

At this point I feel really good about my Noir ballot, in that all but maybe two will show. Here in Neo Noir....notsomuch. The varying "definitions" make this one near impossible to call, past the twenty or so top ones that just must be there. I hope. I could see as many as five of my Neo Noirs not making the cut (not even counting my already revealed one-pointer).

Yeah, I think I've said it a dozen times here and in the preliminary thread, but the ambiguity of the definition has been the most challenging aspect of the countdown for me, and I suppose the most frustrating aspect to those purists that are more familiar with the style (something that will probably be heightened by today's reveals :shifty: :laugh: )

Like I said a couple of days ago, all things considered, I think we've done a solid job so far in terms of raising awareness to many legit neo-noirs that a lot of us, me included, hadn't heard of before. For example, I had never heard of Blast of Silence, and maybe I would've never heard of it if it hadn't been for this countdown, but it has jumped to the top of my watchlist. Same goes to The Hot Spot, and several others, so I'm grateful for that.

Bottom line, I would really love to take a look at that "twenty or so top ones" list of yours at some point, so feel free to share it in the end, so we can see what made it/what not, and people can pick up ideas of what to watch as well.

Thief

04-05-24, 01:19 PM

6lists104pointsThe Big Lebowski (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/115-the-big-lebowski.html)Director
Ethan Coen, 1998

Starring
Jeff Bridges, John Goodman, Julianne Moore, Steve Buscemi

Thief

04-05-24, 01:19 PM

9lists104pointsPulp Fiction (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/680-pulp-fiction.html)Director
Quentin Tarantino, 1994

Starring
John Travolta, Samuel L. Jackson, Uma Thurman, Bruce Willis

Thief

04-05-24, 01:19 PM

TRAILERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd-go0oBF4Y

The Big Lebowski - When a slacker stoner is mistaken for a millionaire with the same name, resulting in a group of hitmen roughing him up, he sets out to seek retribution which puts him in the path of numerous weird characters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGpTpVyI_OQ

Pulp Fiction - Two mob hitmen attempt to retrieve a valuable suitcase belonging to their boss, while a down-on-his-luck boxer is fleeing the same mob boss for different reasons; which puts them in the path of numerous weird characters.

Thief

04-05-24, 01:24 PM

Two films I love, but none made my list mostly because I don't see them as neo-noir. Now that I think of it, I could've included The Big Lebowski, but it's one of those that checks so many boxes for me before it checks neo-noir. Regardless, it's arguably my favorite comedy, a unique film that didn't quite hit for me the first time, but it kept coming to my head over and over. I gave it another chance and that's when it clicked. I love it to death.

Pulp Fiction was a game changer for me. Very formative film. I saw it in the mid-to-late 90s when I was starting to get into film and I remember how amazed I was by it. The best example was after the Jules & Brett scene, I had to literally pause the film and stand up, pace the room for a while because I just couldn't believe what I had seen. Such an amazing film and still my favorite Tarantino.

Seen both, love both, none on my list.

SEEN: 39/64
MY BALLOT: 11/25

1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10.
11.
12. Bound (#59)
13.
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.

Allaby

04-05-24, 01:28 PM

Somehow I forgot to include Pulp Fiction on my list. Not sure how that happened. It would have been in my top 10 for sure. I didn't like The Big Lebowski at all.

51/64

Thief

04-05-24, 01:28 PM

Holden Pike

04-05-24, 01:32 PM

98362

Believe it or not, this pair of obscure entries have made other MoFo Lists. The Big Lebowski was #8 on the original MoFo Top 100 in 2010, fell to #18 on the 2020 reboot of that list, hit #6 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1990s, and was #1 on the MoFo Top 100 Comedies. Pulp Fiction was #2 on the original MoFo Top 100, #5 on the reboot MoFo Top 100, and #2 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1990s.

Allaby

04-05-24, 01:33 PM

These are the first two films in the countdown from both Quentin Tarantino and the Coen brothers. Do you think they'll have more? Which ones?

Also, at 8.9, Pulp Fiction has the highest IMDb rating so far, only below The Dark Knight (9.0)

Yes, the Coens and Tarantino will have more films to appear. For the Coens, I expect Fargo and No Country for Old Men to make the list. For Tarantino, Reservoir Dogs and Kill Bill Volume 1 will likely make the list.

SpelingError

04-05-24, 01:35 PM

The Big Lebowski was #7 on my ballot and Pulp Fiction was #8 on my ballot.

Miss Vicky

04-05-24, 01:36 PM

There are 5 more that I think are definitely locks and another 6 or 7 that could make it. I am starting to get worried that my #1 didn't make the cut, though.

I just said this a few minutes ago and would you look at that? Today brings 2 of the 6 or 7 that I thought could make it but wasn't sure. I'm gonna be honest, I don't really consider either of these films to be Neo Noir (not that I know what Neo Noir is), but they appeared on some already existing lists and when I cut my shortlist down to only eligible films I was left with 25 so I stopped cutting.

The Big Lebowski is a former all time top ten movie for me so I stuck it at #5 on my ballot. Pulp Fiction is stylish and fun, but I've never loved it the way so many others do and it's not even my favorite Tarantino flick so it got shoved in at #16.

My Ballot:
2. You Were Never Really Here (#50)
3. The Man From Nowhere (#87)
4. The Departed (#53)
5. The Big Lebowski (#38)
7. True Romance (#60)
12. Shutter Island (#86)
13. The Nice Guys (#39)
14. Inherent Vice (#41)
16. Pulp Fiction (#37)
17. Killer Joe (2011) (#66)

SpelingError

04-05-24, 01:37 PM

7. The Big Lebowski
8. Pulp Fiction
17. The Silence of the Lambs
22. Point Blank
23. Alphaville

Thief

04-05-24, 01:51 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... THE BIG LEBOWSKI

https://www.metaflix.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/The-Big-Lebowski.jpg
RT – 80%, IMDb – 8.1

Roger Ebert said:

"The inspiration for the supporting characters can perhaps be found in the novels of Raymond Chandler. The Southern California setting, the millionaire, the kidnapped wife, the bohemian daughter, the enforcers, the cops who know the hero by name, can all be found in Chandler. The Dude is in a sense Philip Marlowe -- not in his energy or focus, but in the code he lives by. Down these mean streets walks a man who won't allow his rug to be pissed on." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-the-big-lebowski-1998))

Jesse Pasternack, from Establishing Shot, said:

"While the Coen Brothers frequently disrupt film noir conventions throughout The Big Lebowski, they also show an unexpected amount of fidelity to them when necessary. The labyrinthine plot is straight out of Raymond Chandler and, while The Dude may be lazy, he’s not stupid [...] It’s not for nothing that the film’s only traditional private detective (Jon Polito) tells The Dude that he 'digs [his] work'. This faithfulness makes The Big Lebowski more than just a parody of classic film noir stories." (read full review here (https://blogs.iu.edu/establishingshot/2023/08/14/emthe-big-lebowski-ems-subversive-use-of-film-noir-tropes/))

Nope1172 said:

"What is it that makes The Big Lebowski so funny? Is it the brilliant script, the incredible characters, the great performances, or any of the other great things about this movie. The answer is all of the above, because The Big Lebowski is one of the only comedies that has all of these aspects." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1353759-the_big_lebowski.html))

Thief

04-05-24, 01:51 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... PULP FICTION

https://thefilmramblemovie.files.wordpress.com/2019/08/pulp-fiction.jpg?w=1200
RT – 92%, IMDb – 8.9

Roger Ebert said:

"Dialogue drives Quentin Tarantino's Pulp Fiction, dialogue of such high quality it deserves comparison with other masters of spare, hard-boiled prose, from Raymond Chandler to Elmore Leonard. Like them, QT finds a way to make the words humorous without ever seeming to ask for a laugh. Like them, he combines utilitarian prose with flights of rough poetry and wicked fancy." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-pulp-fiction-1994))

Neo Noir Elements in Pulp Fiction said:

"The neo-noir aspects of the film include those of antiheros, dramatic murders and deaths, and untraditional cinematography. For these reasons, the film has been associated with the neo-noir genre by some, but the film could also be seen at times as a crime movie, a comedy (a dark one at that), a gangster film, or even a drama. By containing all of these potential genres, it’s pretty much impossible to categorize the film. Pulp Fiction itself seems to be aware of the genre categorization process, and aims to stand alone, away from the classification of films." (read full review here (https://www.bartleby.com/essay/Neo-Noir-Elements-In-Pulp-Fiction-9E1F8C301F8DD1F9))

Captain Spaulding said:

"Pulp Fiction defies easy classification, but to me it is first and foremost a comedy, yet people rarely label it as such. Perhaps that's because of the rambling nature of the long-form jokes (e.g. Captain Koons's gold watch monologue), the inconspicuous punchlines (e.g. 'I didn't go into Burger King' immediately segueing into remarks about Amsterdammers drowning their fries in mayonnaise) or the prevalence of dark, violent subject matter. However, even in the film's darkest moments, like the pawn shop sequence or Mia's overdose, humor provides levity [...] The script's ability to consistently extract laughter from intense, f**ked-up situations is one of its greatest attributes." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2164697-pulp_fiction.html))

MovieFan1988

04-05-24, 02:02 PM

Have seen so far: 15 - You Were Never Really Here - I found the movie all over the place and just confusing at times.

The Big Lebowski - I found this movie boring and just unfunny.

Pulp Fiction - Decent crime movie, I think the cast did well in it.

Blade Runner 2049 - A boring slow burn sequel, the atmosphere is the only good thing about this movie, imo.

Night Moves - This was an okay movie from the 70s, felt like not much happened in this movie.

The Nice Guys - Not a bad buddy cop movie.

Have not seen so far: 47

Thursday Next

04-05-24, 02:16 PM

I feel like the more this countdown goes on, the less sure I am what neo noir is.

Holden Pike

04-05-24, 02:17 PM

Some of the people who submitted ballots certainly had that issue.

Thief

04-05-24, 02:25 PM

To be honest, I have less of an issue with these two than I have with, say, The Dark Knight or The Silence of the Lambs.

stillmellow

04-05-24, 02:45 PM

I didn't consider either of these movies to be "noir" enough to qualify. If I had, Pulp Fiction would've ranked highly. I enjoyed The Big Lebowski, but nowhere as much as a lot of other people do. It's fine.

WHITBISSELL!

04-05-24, 02:53 PM

2 for 2. The Big Lebowski and Pulp Fiction are probably the ones most (if not all) the people here have seen. Neither were on my ballot. So far it's not looking too good for me running the table since there's only like six of my picks accounted for.

42 out of 64 seen so far.

EDIT: It's actually seven of my picks accounted for with the top 5 already on the board (don't know if that's good or bad)

1. The French Connection (#58)
2. You Were Never Really Here (#50)
3. Get Carter (#49)
4. In the Heat of the Night (#98)
5. Blast of Silence (#48)

18. One False Move (#73)
24. Point Blank (#72)

Kaplan

04-05-24, 04:55 PM

What a pair. Back in the 90s I probably watched Pulp Fiction every month (at least) for years, and I have a fairly endless capacity to rewatch The Big Lebowski, but I never considered Pulp Fiction. I did debate with myself over The Big Lebowski, but I ultimately decided not to include any films that I thought were primarily a comedy, no matter how brilliantly it plays around with hard-boiled (and Chandler-esque) tropes. It was my #1 comedy, and I'm glad it made the list, but I'm also okay with it being a little lower on this one.

Kaplan

04-05-24, 04:59 PM

Yes, the Coens and Tarantino will have more films to appear. For the Coens, I expect Fargo and No Country for Old Men to make the list. For Tarantino, Reservoir Dogs and Kill Bill Volume 1 will likely make the list.

Kill Bill 1 is neo-noir? Um, okay. Jackie Brown maybe, though it seems a little high at this point. As for the Coens, The Man Who Wasn't There seemed like it would have a chance, but it's hard to see it showing at this point, but I'm pretty sure Blood Simple will still make it. No Country is a neo-western. It really doesn't belong, but then I've thought that a couple times about other movies on the countdown.

Thief

04-05-24, 05:09 PM

AWARDS?

https://tonemadison.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/biglebowskialisyn-1024x553.jpg

The Big Lebowski received several nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:

Six (6) Awards Circuit Community Award nominations, including a win for Best Supporting Actor (John Goodman)
Three (3) Satellite Award nominations, including Best Actor (Jeff Bridges)
Two (2) Russian Guild of Film Critics nominations, including a win for Best Foreign Film
One (1) Empire Award nomination for Best Film

Thief

04-05-24, 05:09 PM

AWARDS?

https://img.asmedia.epimg.net/resizer/v2/F2PV7OPGS5DDFHGOEZ6FQSJRBU.jpg?auth=49883d8345cebf21f23672944d7d3cf4e83069fdc2cb44f31410efc009303924

Pulp Fiction received a bunch of nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:

Nine (9) BAFTA Film Award nominations, including a win for Best Supporting Actor (Samuel L. Jackson)
Seven (7) Academy Award nominations, including a win for Best Original Screenplay (Quentin Tarantino & Roger Avary)
Six (6) Golden Globe Award nominations, including a win for Best Screenplay (Tarantino & Avary)
Six (6) MTV Movie Award nominations, including a win for Best Movie
One (1) win for the Palme d'Or at the Cannes Film Festival

CosmicRunaway

04-05-24, 05:14 PM

I've seen The Nice Guys, The Big Lebowski, and Pulp Fiction, but didn't vote for any of them. Pulp Fiction was on my shortlist for awhile, but when I was narrowing down my selection, I wasn't sure if it was noir enough, so I decided to just cut it instead of debating it internally. Why did I cut that and not say, Infernal Affairs? I'm not sure if I have an answer for that; I just went with what my heart told me.

I don't really have any strong opinions on The Big Lebowski, but The Nice Guys was a pretty big disappointment when I saw it in theatres. I feel like I should give it another chance, especially now that I can better divorce it from my fondness of Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, but it'll probably be awhile before I revisit it.

Haven't seen Night Moves, but I know the Bob Seger song if that counts haha.

Seen: 32/64

My List: 8
02. Blade Runner 2049 (2017) - #44
03. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005) - #42
05. Blue Ruin (2013) - #82
06. Mother (2009) - #67
08. Strange Days (1995) - #65
10. The Man from Nowhere (2010) - #87
15. Infernal Affairs (2002) - #91
21. Oldboy (2003) - #52
25. The Chaser (2008) - DNP 1-pointer

Thief

04-05-24, 05:20 PM

Kill Bill 1 is neo-noir? Um, okay.

Personally, I don't consider it neo-noir. But based on the eligibility rules that we set up, it was eligible. The thing with Tarantino, which I tried to address in the articles I linked earlier, is that he borrows elements from so many sources and films that it makes his films so hard to define, classify, and box. With that in mind, of course there are neo-noir elements in Kill Bill; there is narration, flashbacks, creative use of lights and shadows, characters with ambiguous morals, a revenge storyline...

https://www.indiewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Screen-Shot-2019-07-24-at-4.06.29-PM.png

It all depends in how much weight you give to those elements over the whole of the film. Personally, I didn't consider it, but I will only say that some people saw enough of it to label it as such in some of the sources, and some people saw enough of it to check it out and vote for it. Whether it made it or not, remains to be seen.

Sedai

04-05-24, 05:31 PM

Night Moves was most certainly on my list at #22. I am not as huge a fan of it as say Holden, but I have seen it several times, and I feel it is easily in the top 25 neos of all time, but perhaps just not in my top favorites. Hackman is fantastic here. A funny thing about this film: I have never watched this with anyone else, along with Coppola's The Conversation, which is also a Hackman picture. These are films I like to watch alone, and just sort of chill out in the atmosphere and tension of the films. I figured Night Moves would land around here on the list, as I don't run into many people who have even heard of it. I wouldn't have heard of it if not for MoFo.

Pulp Fiction was also on m list at #10. it just cracked my top 10, and I think I placed it properly. I never tire of watching it, and I have see it dozens and dozens of times. Not a quintessential noir, to be sure, but it ticks enough boxes for me.

The Big Lebowski? Never would have guessed it would show up on a neo-noir list, but here we are...

The Nice Guys is a fun film, and I have seen it 2 or 3 times over the years. Again though, didn't come up on my neo-noir radar...

crumbsroom

04-05-24, 05:46 PM

Isn't The Big Lebowski an indirect riff on The Big Sleep? If so, I think that in itself allows its inclusion to make sense.

But put me on the, nah, for Pulp Fiction being a neo noir. And quadruple that Nah when it comes to Kill Bill, if anyone actually had it in their heads to include it.

beelzebubble

04-05-24, 06:01 PM

Pulp Fiction was my # 21.
The Big Lebowski was not on my list. I've certainly seen it. I probably should have put Blood Simple on my list instead of Pulp Fiction.
My List So Far.
2. You Were Never Really Here
7. Klute
8. Cape Fear (1962)
11. The Talented Mr. Ripley
12. The Grifters
21. Pulp Fiction
23. Bound

mrblond

04-05-24, 06:42 PM

Haven't thought of this film initially but just at the last minute before submitting, I put two cents on
#37. Pulp Fiction (1994) putting it on my #24.

I saw, it been mentioned in the preliminary thread so I knew, it will receive enough support. That's why, I didn't push it higher. Now, firstly I was surprised to see its reveal early outside top 15 but understand it's because of the hesitations about its noir status.

I've seen it several times and some separate scenes hundreds of times. Highly watchable and stylish movie.

98363
-----

My Ballot
▽
...
4. The Driver (1978) [#79]
5.
6. Red Rock West (1993) [#88]
7. The Hot Spot (1990) [#85]
8. Shallow Grave (1994) [#95]
9.
...
14. Purple Noon (1960) [#94]
15.
16. Thelma & Louise (1991) [#56]
...
21. Mona Lisa (1986) [#78]
22.
23.
24. Pulp Fiction (1994) [#37]
...

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/bd175Fmt3Web3j0qXahSKmdZPOe.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/wI6CalCMdSKXgx10gzfHY3vwyzf.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/iQCP69183K1QZo8bb23nkcLap3W.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/5t0mGiFlj5GBrZ7ggvvkMdFJ7fV.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/7n1KNXs4OFfeVLjJ3g10M8oK1fM.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/cQaqpwN5Nq0GNNKE1hIgYLpLlca.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/8VuPD8ZKAqxT6F1HaH9sFFURmsi.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/d5iIlFn5s0ImszYzBPb8JPIfbXD.jpg

-----

Others in my radar:
▽
The Ninth Gate (1999) [one-pointers]
The Talented Mr. Ripley (1999) [#96]
True Romance (1993) [#60]

cricket

04-05-24, 06:44 PM

70's Hackman rules and Night Moves made my ballot

The Nice Guys may as well be called The Suck Guys as far as I'm concerned.

Love Pulp Fiction and Lebowski but don't view either as a fit for this countdown.

1. Killer Joe (#66)
3. Gone Baby Gone (#64)
4. The Player (#47)
9. Mona Lisa (#78)
11. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (#62)
12. Body Double (#69)
15. The Driver (#79)
17. Night Moves (#40)
21. Manhunter (#77)
24. Bound (#59)

https://y.yarn.co/58a745f3-d631-4398-b09f-9af78a01916c_text.gif

seanc

04-05-24, 07:39 PM

Why did I consider Lebowski Noir and not Pulp? Got me, but I am sure I had a reason at the time. Anyway, both rock and are among my faves ever. Lebowski was my 7 for this list.

Kaplan

04-05-24, 07:42 PM

Personally, I don't consider it neo-noir. But based on the eligibility rules that we set up, it was eligible. The thing with Tarantino, which I tried to address in the articles I linked earlier, is that he borrows elements from so many sources and films that it makes his films so hard to define, classify, and box. With that in mind, of course there are neo-noir elements in Kill Bill; there is narration, flashbacks, creative use of lights and shadows, characters with ambiguous morals, a revenge storyline...

https://www.indiewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Screen-Shot-2019-07-24-at-4.06.29-PM.png

It all depends in how much weight you give to those elements over the whole of the film. Personally, I didn't consider it, but I will only say that some people saw enough of it to label it as such in some of the sources, and some people saw enough of it to check it out and vote for it. Whether it made it or not, remains to be seen.

Well, the eligibility rules are what they are, so I can’t argue with that, but let’s say of the thousand influences you can find in Kill Bill, noir is so far down the list that we might as well have allowed every black & white movie released since 1960. And that’s all I’ll say on that.

Citizen Rules

04-05-24, 07:58 PM

I've seen both of today's movies but for the sake of world peace and brotherly love, I won't comment on them:D

Harry Lime

04-05-24, 08:59 PM

I love both of these films. All-time faves. Top 50 material. Endlessly rewatchable. Not on my neo noir list though. When I first started making my list I went through and listed (almost) everything that would qualify, and sorted by personal rating. But then I took a second look and started removing a bunch that even though they qualified it didn't feel right to me at the time. See ya Lebowski. So long Pulpy.

That said I feel The Big Lebowski was the one I had the most trouble with because it plays on noir themes and plots in such a fun way. It deserves to be here. And while I was convinced the same at the time I figured enough people were voting for it and I wanted to give another Coen film my money.

People asking about other Coen films to make it? Surely Miller's Crossing and Blood Simple will rank high. Maybe The Man Who Wasn't There makes it too. Probably Fargo...which I will heap praise on like these other two nineties classics that made the cut...but also exclaimed when making my final list: "I choose not to vote for it!" Anyway at least three more Coen films.

Thief

04-05-24, 10:41 PM

Well, the eligibility rules are what they are, so I can’t argue with that, but let’s say of the thousand influences you can find in Kill Bill, noir is so far down the list that we might as well have allowed every black & white movie released since 1960. And that’s all I’ll say on that.

I agree with 50% of your post

PHOENIX74

04-06-24, 01:36 AM

I'm shocked, shocked, that I haven't got Pulp Fiction or The Big Lewbowski on my ballot - which in both cases means I did not consider them for the countdown. Pulp Fiction I simply didn't connect with neo noir, and Lebowski was too much of a comedy to come to mind when thinking of possible films to vote for. For some reason I can't fit comedies into Neo Noir-inclusive categories.

40. Night Moves - Haven't seen it.

39. The Nice Guys - I've seen this, and I think it's fine. I don't have so much love for it that I'd be pushing it forward amongst my favourite films though, so it quickly gets forgotten. I'd be okay with watching it again if I had to - it's that kind of okay. Gosling once again got to show he's versatile enough for comedic roles after showing such signs appearing in the winsome Lars and the Real Girl.

38. The Big Lebowski - One of my all-time favourite films, but it's not on my ballot. It's just a strange interpretation thing, because obviously this film has a very up-front film noir-inspired narrative and style. I just didn't think of it because when thinking of neo noir I always think about serious films, and this is a comedy. I mean, noir=dark, and although there are dark comedies out there (you could argue this is one) I never think of a comedy as noir.

37. Pulp Fiction - Another of my all-time favourite films - and another that's not on my ballot. It didn't stand out to me as neo noir, and as such it never came to mind while I compiled my list. I'm not saying it's definitely not - I'm just saying it's a bit hazy when it comes to Pulp Fiction. I wonder what other unexpected surprises I'm in for!

Seen : 40/64

Little Ash

04-06-24, 10:30 AM

Some of the people who submitted ballots certainly had that issue.

Correct. I was not thrilled with my ballot and felt like it was off. Partly because my mind got wiped and I forgot just about every classic neo-noirs of the 70s that seem quintessential neo-noirs (with only one exception I consciously omitted). And googling lists of greatest neo-noirs... basically looks a lot like what we're getting in this countdown. I didn't consider just looking for random letterboxd lists labeled neo-noir (though I also just threw my ballot together at the last minute). I've got a lot of questionable entries on it.

Little Ash

04-06-24, 10:37 AM

I have a lot of Coens' movies on my ballot, but not The Big Lebowski, mainly because it's one other people love a lot more than me, always leaving me in a weird space of how I feel about it, like, I should like it more (and at a high level, I don't know why I don't. It has all the elements of a movie that should work).

Pulp Fiction - one I never considered, but compared to Kill Bill, it's riffing off of a lot of French New Wave influences, some of which seemed foundational for neo-noir, so it seems like a legit one to consider. It's also just a movie that I find myself enjoying rather than loving (or hating, which is a clashing phenomenon I experienced with it ever since its release, in contrast to other (young-ish) people who were just quickly declaring it one of the greatest movies of all time). So, no vote.

ETA: one pattern I'm noticing with these two and the one afore-mentioned quintessential neo-noir from the 70s that I omitted from my ballot, one way for me to omit a movie is if I simply enjoyed it and I get the strong sense other people considered it one of the greatest movies of all time. Just saying it now for when we get to its reveal in the top 5, 3, 1(?)-spot.

Thief

04-06-24, 04:18 PM

7lists106pointsDog Day Afternoon (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/968-dog-day-afternoon.html)Director
Sidney Lumet, 1975

Starring
Al Pacino, John Cazale, Charles Durning, Chris Sarandon

Thief

04-06-24, 04:18 PM

9lists112pointsWho Framed Roger Rabbit (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/856-who-framed-roger-rabbit.html)Director
Robert Zemeckis, 1988

Starring
Bob Hoskins, Christopher Lloyd, Joanna Cassidy, Charles Fleischer

Thief

04-06-24, 04:18 PM

TRAILERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne6KMHLTvik

Dog Day Afternoon - When three amateur thieves attempt to rob a bank in New York, things quicky go wrong, resulting in a complicated hostage situation. Meanwhile a media circus unfolds outside while law enforcement scrambles to end the standoff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEIJpS26aAw

Who Framed Roger Rabbit - Set in a world where cartoons and humans co-exist, a human private eye is hired by a cartoon producer to investigate the potential adultery of the wife of his biggest star, Roger Rabbit. However, when the alleged lover ends up dead, Roger has to flee from the ruthless Judge Doom.

Thief

04-06-24, 04:18 PM

Dog Day Afternoon is a pretty good film that moves swiftly and effectively across different genres and moods. Here is my review from my latest rewatch (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2379254-dog_day_afternoon.html), and also an excerpt from it:

"In the midst of its spectacle, Dog Day Afternoon manages to put a spotlight not in the event, but in the characters and the circumstances that drive them. It is a wildly effective mixture of drama, humor, social commentary, and thrills, with a clever script and some great performances."

However, this is yet another case of a film I don't see as neo-noir. So no vote from me.

Who Framed Roger Rabbit is one I hadn't thought of until someone brought it up on the preliminary thread. Granted, I haven't seen it in a very long time, but what stuck with me was good. The way it plays with noir conventions while staying true to its comedic/cartoon sensibilities is impressive, Hoskins is the perfect lead for it, and Judge Doom is an extremeley memorable villain. This one was my #10.

SEEN: 41/66
MY BALLOT: 12/25

1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
11.
12. Bound (#59)
13.
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.

stillmellow

04-06-24, 04:24 PM

Who Framed Roger Rabbit is my #9. I was afraid it wouldn't show up on the list at all, being a family comedy, but to me it's Bob Hoskins performance that helps make it true neo Noir. The scene with him and R.K. Maroon, later in the film, is amazing.

Dog Day Afternoon is another good one, but it didn't quite make my list.

Allaby

04-06-24, 04:27 PM

Dog Day Afternoon is fantastic, but just missed my ballot. I like Who Framed Roger Rabbit, but it was never in contention for my ballot.

53/66

Citizen Rules

04-06-24, 04:28 PM

Two films I really like and oddly didn't vote for either, I didn't remember them. Both deserve a spot on the countdown.

I wrote this:
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.ctfassets.net%2F23wh7e5ryr18%2Fphoto-45699%2F854fcd52a7bd920c052a07bfd4b74145%2F45699-dog-day-afternoon.jpg%3Ffm%3Djpg%26fl%3Dprogressive%26w%3D900%26q%3D50&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=72a70ea1be6e8fc53ace9ee0ffc19b486c76cb4b7e54be23121e4bf0de36a9bf&ipo=imagesDog Day Afternoon
(Sidney Lumet 1975)

Second watch and it's still amazing! I loved every minute of it and every character too from Sonny & Sal to Leon to the city cop in charge and all the women bank tellers. Talk about some stellar acting! These people seemed real.

They just couldn't make this movie today. First off you would never get a major city like Brooklyn to close down a city block to film a movie. And you'd never get that many extras packed onto the street if they did manage to get permits to close off the street for shooting. And no way in hell would they ever allow a helicopter to hover so low over a crowd of people. None of that would be happening these days, it would be all done with CG. And you couldn't tell a personal story like this because some producer or director would want to ramp up the picture and get a thrill a minute, adrenal fueled movie and turn this into a thriller...Thank goodness for the 1970s!
rating_4_5

Miss Vicky

04-06-24, 04:34 PM

When this countdown was announced, I immediately knew that Who Framed Roger Rabbit was going to take the top position on my ballot. All the Noir elements are there and it's just a really fun, inventive, and hilarious movie that I have loved since its release. I was starting to get worried that it wasn't going to show and I'm really happy to see that those worries were unfounded.

http://www.angelfire.com/music6/walteregan/MoFoTop100/rogerrabbit.gif

I've seen Dog Day Afternoon and liked it. I voted for it in the 70s Countdown but I don't think it ever came to mind while compiling my Neo Noir ballot.

My Ballot:
1. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
2. You Were Never Really Here (#50)
3. The Man From Nowhere (#87)
4. The Departed (#53)
5. The Big Lebowski (#38)
7. True Romance (#60)
12. Shutter Island (#86)
13. The Nice Guys (#39)
14. Inherent Vice (#41)
16. Pulp Fiction (#37)
17. Killer Joe (2011) (#66)

Harry Lime

04-06-24, 04:36 PM

Another two films that I like quite a bit but are they noir films? I don't know about that. Regardless they qualified and earned their spots.

WHITBISSELL!

04-06-24, 04:42 PM

2 for 2 and neither on my list. I was really late in finally watching Dog Day Afternoon. It more than earns it's reputation as a classic. Pacino was scary good. Anyone who debates whether or not he's just going through the motions at this point in his career needs to watch this. Or maybe roles like this aren't available to actors his age. How dare he get old? John Cazale should be mentioned anytime people talk about great talents that are no longer with us.

Who Framed Roger Rabbit would not have been one of my picks. It's noir alright, neo or otherwise. And I remember liking it the one time I watched it. But no, it would not have been one of my picks.

44 of the 66 seen so far.

seanc

04-06-24, 04:57 PM

I rewatched Roger Rabbit not too long ago. First time since theater. I was pleasantly by how well it held up, but I still don’t think it’s great.

Dog Day Afternoon is one of the greatest movies ever but it isn’t…who the hell cares. :D

Thief

04-06-24, 05:17 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... DOG DAY AFTERNOON

https://i.imgur.com/mvEC1VW.jpg
RT – 96%, IMDb – 8.0

Roger Ebert said:

"The movie has an irreverent, quirky sense of humor, and we get some notion of the times we live in when the bank starts getting obscene phone calls -- and the giggling tellers breathe heavily into the receiver. There's also, in a film that's probably about fifteen minutes too long, an attempt to take a documentary look at the ways police and banks try to handle situations like this." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/dog-day-afternoon-1975))

Eloise King-Clements, from Medium, said:

"Throughout the movie the shots and editing empathize with Sonny, this is just one example. The comradery and support he receives from his hostages and the crowd give Dog Day Afternoon a light and upbeat feel. But, in true neo-noir fashion, the dark undertones of the movie come to a head in the final scenes." (read full review here (https://kinge352.medium.com/dog-day-afternoon-1975-review-77ee44303cfb))

Jack1 said:

"This is an excellent film, in my opinion, and I would recommend it to anyone who loves a good crime drama with characters who are far more than just the cardboard cutouts present in many films in the genre. Pacino provides arguably his best performance ever, and the writing is terrific." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1079384-dog_day_afternoon.html))

Thief

04-06-24, 05:17 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT

https://neiloseman.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/RogerRabbit1-1.jpeg
RT – 96%, IMDb – 7.7

Roger Ebert said:

"The movie is filled with throwaway gags, inside jokes, one-liners and little pokes at the screen images of its cartoon characters. It is also oddly convincing, not only because of the craft of the filmmakers but also because Hoskins and the other live actors have found the right note for their interaction with the Toons." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/who-framed-roger-rabbit-1988))

Alex Katz, from Flixist, said:

"Who Framed Roger Rabbit is a celebration of film noir as much as it is a celebration of cartoons. One must look no further than the protagonist, Eddie Valiant, for one of the biggest pieces of evidence of this. Eddie is basically every noir protagonist archetype rolled into a ball and spat into a fedora." (read full review here (https://www.flixist.com/deep-analysis-who-framed-roger-rabbit/))

mark f said:

"If you don't know, the script was intentionally devised to have echoes of Chinatown in its depiction of an L.A. scandal, so it's not a kiddie movie at all; at least unless you're just a kiddie at heart. When all is said and done, I just enjoy the fact that someone had the audacity to make this entertaining film." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/412935-who-framed-roger-rabbit.html))

SpelingError

04-06-24, 05:29 PM

Dog Day Afternoon is good, but it had no chance at making my ballot. Here's what I wrote on it in a Hall of Fame:

Dog Day Afternoon (1975) - 3

This is my second time watching this film and my opinion of it is about the same as it was last time. I think the film is at its best when it shows the reactions the civilians have to Sonny throughout the day. Those scenes are all great. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for the scenes which occur inside the bank. Sal isn't that memorable as Sonny's accomplice and the other bank workers are pretty bland as well. I do like the rare bit of tension in the bank (mainly in the first act) and how both groups eventually get along with each other, but even those elements grow a bit tiring as the film goes on, especially in the second half. But yeah, whenever Sonny exits the bank, the film gets me on board again. Whether you're referring to how Sonny becomes a celebrity amongst the civilians, the iconic "Attica!" scene, or how the civilians remain supportive of him after they learn he's from the LGBT community (I'm curious how well those scenes were received back in the day), those parts of the film are full of life. So much texture and detail is thrown into that one street, it feels like a vivid portrait of New York in the 70's which you could step into. Though yeah, all things considered, the film is a mixture of great and (somewhat) dull which provides a ceiling to my enjoyment of it.

I haven't seen Who Framed Roger Rabbit in years, so I barely remember it. I remember enjoying it though.

Thursday Next

04-06-24, 05:30 PM

Who Framed Roger Rabbit was my #18. I probably saw it long before I saw any classic noir films and it's still one of the first films that came to mind as neo-noir. Yes, it's a comedy, but the whole basis of the comedy is 'toons do noir'.

Holden Pike

04-06-24, 07:44 PM

98374

Dog Day Afternoon was #28 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1970s. Who Framed Roger Rabbit was #31 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1980s.

Thief

04-06-24, 08:32 PM

AWARDS?

https://filmforum.org/do-not-enter-or-modify-or-erase/client-uploads/_1000w/DOG_DAY_AFTERNOON_slideshow_3.png

Dog Day Afternoon received several nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:

Seven (7) Golden Globe Award nominations, including Best Motion Picture
Six (6) Academy Award nominations, including a win for Best Original Screenplay (Frank Pierson)
Six (6) BAFTA Film Award nominations, including a win for Best Actor (Al Pacino)
Two (2) National Board of Review Awards, including Best Supporting Actor (Charles Durning)
One (1) Directors Guild of America Award for Best Director (Sidney Lumet)

Thief

04-06-24, 08:32 PM

AWARDS?

https://thehundreds.com/cdn/shop/articles/who-framed-roger-rabbit-jessica-eddie-valiant.jpg

Who Framed Roger Rabbit received several nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:

Eight (8) Saturn Award nominations, including a win for Best Fantasy Film
Seven (7) Academy Award nominations, including Best Film Editing (Arthur Schmidt)
Five (5) BAFTA Film Award nominations, including a win for Best Special Effects
Two (2) Golden Globe Award nominations, including Best Motion Picture
One (1) Jupiter Award for Best International Film

cricket

04-06-24, 09:43 PM

mrblond

04-06-24, 10:37 PM

#36. Dog Day Afternoon (1975) is my #19.

What can I say more about this film...it's all said about it.
Alas, in most of the cases when I think about this movie or The Deer Hunter or The Godfather, it brings me sadness about John Cazale's fate.

4.5++
95/100
98378
-----

My Ballot
▽
...
4. The Driver (1978) [#79]
5.
6. Red Rock West (1993) [#88]
7. The Hot Spot (1990) [#85]
8. Shallow Grave (1994) [#95]
...
14. Purple Noon (1960) [#94]
15.
16. Thelma & Louise (1991) [#56]
...
19. Dog Day Afternoon (1975) [#36]
20.
21. Mona Lisa (1986) [#78]
22.
23.
24. Pulp Fiction (1994) [#37]
...

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/bd175Fmt3Web3j0qXahSKmdZPOe.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/wI6CalCMdSKXgx10gzfHY3vwyzf.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/iQCP69183K1QZo8bb23nkcLap3W.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/5t0mGiFlj5GBrZ7ggvvkMdFJ7fV.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/7n1KNXs4OFfeVLjJ3g10M8oK1fM.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/cQaqpwN5Nq0GNNKE1hIgYLpLlca.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/mavrhr0ig2aCRR8d48yaxtD5aMQ.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/8VuPD8ZKAqxT6F1HaH9sFFURmsi.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/d5iIlFn5s0ImszYzBPb8JPIfbXD.jpg

-----

Others in my radar:
▽
The Ninth Gate (1999) [one-pointers]
The Talented Mr. Ripley (1999) [#96]
True Romance (1993) [#60]

crumbsroom

04-06-24, 10:51 PM

Roger Rabbit? That's fair.

I've never liked it as much as most seem to but...fair. Very fair.

MovieFan1988

04-07-24, 07:14 AM

Have seen so far: 17
Dog Day Afternoon - A classic 70's bank robber movie starring Al Pacino as he stirs up chaos at a bank. #4 on my ballot list.

Who Framed Roger Rabbit - One of the best movies in the 80's, I sure enjoyed it. #5 on my ballot list.

Have not seen so far: 47

My Ballot List
#3 - The Dark Knight
#4 - Dog Day Afternoon
#5 - Who Framed Roger Rabbit

honeykid

04-07-24, 09:17 AM

Two films I love, but none made my list mostly because I don't see them as neo-noir.

If I'd played by those rules (as I usually do) my list would've been about 3 or 4 tops. :D

Some really good films in the last couple of days and Who Framed Roger Rabbit? :D One of them did make my list as I had Pulp Fiction at #5. I don't really think of it as Noir, neo or otherwise, but I needed something on my list and there's certainly enough bits to make up a chunk, which I think can be called Neo-Noir within the overall film.

I probably could've done the same for The Big Lebowski, but it just didn't feel right to me, so I didn't do so.

Little Ash

04-07-24, 10:31 AM

Seen Roger Rabbit once way back when it was out. I believe I liked it but have never felt a need to watch it again.

Dog Day Afternoon is terrific but yet another film, let me put it this way, if it weren't for the presence of films like Red Rock West and Bound, I'm not sure anyone could look at this list and figure out what it was.

My sentiment on Roger Rabbit is fairly similar, except I was young enough that I know I loved it at the time. But I was also fairly young.

Dog Day Afternoon - I went back and looked at the list, and I probably would have guessed "crime movies + erotic thrillers, so I guess crime movies in general."

Holden Pike

04-07-24, 11:01 AM

Yes, we are putting a decent Crime/Thriller list together that has occasional Neo Noir mixed in. As I expected.

Thief

04-07-24, 11:25 AM

Yes, we are putting a decent Crime/Thriller list together that has occasional Neo Noir mixed in. As I expected.

Which ones so far would you consider genuine neo-noir? Serious question.

Iroquois

04-07-24, 12:55 PM

two votes.

the big lebowski was my #8. i don't know exactly how much you can consider it a quote-unquote parody of noir films due to how it reimagines the archetypal private eye narrative through the lens of a shiftless slacker stumbling into a bizarre kidnapping scheme with all manner of potential culprits, but as is often the case with the coens they have a keen enough understanding of whatever genre they're working in to deliver a sublime example, even one buried under a surface of eccentric angelenos and tenpin bowling.

genuinely surprised to double-check my ballot and find that pulp fiction isn't on there. can't remember why - did i think the one tarantino i did vote for was sufficient, did i figure it didn't need my help, did it just slip my mind completely - but in any case it's not there and maybe it should've been. just an undeniable piece of work.

have only ever seen dog day afternoon once. it's good, i just never feel any particularly strong urge to go back to it (this is true of most of the lumet films i've seen).

who framed roger rabbit was my #24. definitely one of the truly transcendent genre parodies that fires on all cylinders - absolutely dialed-in performances by its human players, elaborate blend of animation and live-action filmmaking, and a genuinely solid noir story underneath it all.

Thief

04-07-24, 01:55 PM

9lists114pointsGone Girl (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/210577-gone-girl.html)Director
David Fincher, 2014

Starring
Ben Affleck, Rosamund Pike, Neil Patrick Harris, Tyler Perry

Thief

04-07-24, 01:55 PM

11lists115pointsCollateral (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/1538-collateral.html)Director
Michael Mann, 2004

Starring
Jamie Foxx, Tom Cruise, Jada Pinkett Smith, Mark Ruffalo

Thief

04-07-24, 01:55 PM

TRAILERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-_-1nJf8Vg

Gone Girl - The seemingly blissful marriage of a writer and his wife is put into question when she disappears on their anniversary, and he becomes the prime suspect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JDf2zIFgO8

Collateral - A cab driver finds himself the hostage of an engaging contract killer as he makes his rounds from hit to hit during one night in Los Angeles.

Thief

04-07-24, 01:56 PM

Seen both, but none made my ballot. Gone Girl has an amazing first half that keeps you guessing all the time, and although I feel like the second half loses some steam, I do like the questions it poses about who we are, how do we present ourselves, and how the media handles things. It would probably sneak into my Fincher Top 5, but I acknowledge I need a rewatch.

Collateral is one I've grown to appreciate more the more I watch it, mostly on the ground of how fun it is. It's often on cable, so I've seen it quite a bit. I don't care that much about Foxx's performance, but Cruise is great. Love most of the setpieces.

SEEN: 43/68
MY BALLOT: 12/25

1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
11.
12. Bound (#59)
13.
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.

Allaby

04-07-24, 02:00 PM

I thought Gone Girl was fantastic and it made my ballot at #20. I found Collateral to be just alright.

Seen: 55/68

Holden Pike

04-07-24, 02:01 PM

98385

Gone Girl was #65 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 2010s. Collateral was #55 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 2000s.

Wooley

04-07-24, 02:09 PM

This is just my latest "I would have had this movie really high on my list" post, this time for Night Moves.
I agree with Holden that it is top-tier All-Time Neo-Noir and I would have probably had it in my Top 10. What a smart movie. I love the way he's always playing the same game of chess over and over as a metaphor for the entire film.

Citizen Rules

04-07-24, 02:10 PM

I haven't seen Gone Girl. But I did watch Collateral in the Personal Recommendation HoF III.

Collateral (2004)

I'm not big on action thriller Hollywood flicks, but it turns out it was kinda fun and it made for an interesting watch. I guess I liked it as it wasn't really serious or realistic, more like a movie you'd watch as you polish off a large pepperoni pizza with extra cheese and a quart of ice cold root beer. I mean who can take Tom Cruise as a hitman seriously, but he appeared to have fun with his role and seeing how I usually like Cruise the movie then worked out OK. I don't know if I've ever seen Jamie Foxx in anything but he didn't really seem to have a grip on his character. I get what the writers were doing with his character but as an actor he just didn't gel with the role. Well truth be told nobody stood out, but like I said it was sorta fun as I don't normally watch these kind of movies.

Harry Lime

04-07-24, 02:10 PM

Two quality movies from quality directors. I don't really have interest in rewatching Gone Girl but I've been meaning to check out Collateral again to see how it holds up.

Tugg

04-07-24, 02:10 PM

My #1 Gone Girl (2014) and #6 Collateral (2004).

John W Constantine

04-07-24, 02:12 PM

Gone Girl needs a revisit, seen it I believe opening weekend, not since.

Collateral I had at #20 but could have been much higher. Just a fun movie.

SpelingError

04-07-24, 02:28 PM

I haven't seen either film.

Thursday Next

04-07-24, 02:52 PM

Gone Girl is good. Collateral I thought started off well and ended up really silly.

Miss Vicky

04-07-24, 03:04 PM

Is Gone Girl Neo Noir? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not. What I do know is that it's a damn good movie and it qualified so I stuck it on my ballot at #15.

Here's what I wrote about it when I rewatched it for the 2010s Countdown:

https://www.angelfire.com/music6/walteregan/2010s/gonegirl.gif

Gone Girl (David Fincher, 2014)
(Rewatch)

I decided to follow a cautionary tale about not putting your dick in crazy with a cautionary tale about not putting your dick in crazy. I know I said that I'm not so much into that and I've also said that I don't like movies about shitty people doing shitty things to each other, but this is an exception to both statements.

So what, then, is the difference? Whereas Thirst Street's Gina was an awkward, anxiety ridden idiot, Gone Girl's Amy is smart, sophisticated, calculating, and - most importantly - interesting. And while she and Nick are both most definitely shitty people, hers is a satisfying kind of shittiness that her douchebag husband kind of deserves. Even if only kind of. Add to that David Fincher's gift at telling twisted tales and you've got one hell of an entertaining watch.

4

I've seen Collateral but it must not have made much of an impression because I don't really remember it.

My Ballot:
1. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
2. You Were Never Really Here (#50)
3. The Man From Nowhere (#87)
4. The Departed (#53)
5. The Big Lebowski (#38)
7. True Romance (#60)
12. Shutter Island (#86)
13. The Nice Guys (#39)
14. Inherent Vice (#41)
15. Gone Girl (#34)
16. Pulp Fiction (#37)
17. Killer Joe (#66)