The MoFo Top 100 Neo-noir Countdown [Archive] - Page 6

Thief

04-07-24, 08:07 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... GONE GIRL

https://mediaproxy.salon.com/width/1200/https://media2.salon.com/2014/09/gone_girl3.jpg
RT – 88%, IMDb – 8.1

Matt Zoller Seitz, from RogerEbert.com, said:

"Like a lot of Hitchcock [...] each scene in the movie refers, however obliquely, to real fears, real emotions and real configurations of love or friendship. But at the same time, not a single frame is meant to be taken literally, as a documentary-like account of how people are, or should be, or shouldn't be. It's working through primordial feelings in the manner of a blues song, a pulp thriller, a film noir, or a horror picture." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/gone-girl-2014))

Drew, from If I Had an Orchard, said:

"Fincher makes Gone Girl slick and well-made enough for us to not realize its noir roots, but they’re there. In this “prestige pulp” picture, he and Flynn place familiar tropes in a different setting, add a twisted sense of humor and satire, and form a flawed, yet fantastic film noir. The themes present are dark yet handled with a light touch: the uncertainty of marriage and relationships, the facades we use in those relationships, and the way the sensationalist media reinforces those facades. It’s all very noir, indeed." (read full review here (https://dwendt212.wordpress.com/2014/10/11/gone-girl-film-noir-and-a-new-femme-fatale/))

MovieMeditation said:

"Gone Girl is a film you are guaranteed to want to disappear into, even if it may be far from your usual movie watching habits. The film has enough mystery and sharp turns to leave you tossing and turning in the cinema seat up to several times, and it is certainly also a movie that will make you think twice about entering into a marriage with the "woman of your life " – You have been warned…" (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1225232-gone-girl.html))

Thief

04-07-24, 08:07 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... COLLATERAL

https://furiousreviews.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/max-and-vincent.jpg
RT – 86%, IMDb – 7.5

Roger Ebert said:

"Mann is working in a genre with Collateral, as he was in Heat (1995), but he deepens genre through the kind of specific detail that would grace a straight drama [...] Mann allows dialogue into the kind of movie that many directors now approach as wall-to-wall action. Action gains a lot when it happens to convincing individuals, instead of to off-the-shelf action figures." (read full review here (hhttps://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/collateral-2004))

Sam Kench, from Studio Binder, said:

"This is a supremely stylish film. In Collateral, Michael Mann’s trademark visual flair is at its peak. The 'neon-noir' aesthetic that Mann first played around with in his debut feature, Thief from 1981, is refined to near-perfection in Collateral. The 'cool factor' is through the roof." (read full review here (https://www.studiobinder.com/blog/collateral-movie-review/))

Gideon58 said:

"Minor plot contrivances definitely did not deter my enjoyment of this thundering roller coaster of a ride that offered one surprise after another, particularly in the presentation of two central characters...the story never forgets that Vincent is a professional and that Max is an amateur, a line that films like this tend to cross sometimes and this one never does." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1544511-collateral.html))

cricket

04-07-24, 09:25 PM

I didn't love Gone Girl as much as I hoped but I'm a fan.

I wasn't crazy about Collateral but I saw it at the drive-in and I was drinking and stuff.

Thief

04-07-24, 10:17 PM

AWARDS?

https://www.amestrib.com/gcdn/authoring/2014/10/02/NATR/ghows-IA-651c9aaf-a2a9-40f7-bd74-c0c4f6090429-1260fbdd.jpeg

Gone Girl received a loooot of nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:

Seven (7) Satellite Award nominations, including Best Motion Picture
Six (6) Critics Choice Award nominations, including a win for Best Adapted Screenplay (Flynn)
Four (4) Golden Globe Award nominations, including Best Director (David Fincher)
Two (2) Saturn Awards, including Best Thriller
Two (2) BAFTA Film Award nominations, including Best Adapted Screenplay (Gillian Flynn)
One (1) Academy Award nomination for Best Actress (Rosamund Pike)

Thief

04-07-24, 10:20 PM

AWARDS?

https://images.mubicdn.net/images/film/1867/cache-90898-1663666043/image-w1280.jpg?size=800x

Collateral received several nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:

Six (6) BAFTA Film Award nominations, including a win for Best Cinematography (Dion Beebe and Paul Cameron)
Five (5) Satellite Award nominations, including a win for Best Editing (Jim Miller and Paul Rubell)
Four (4) Saturn Award nominations, including Best Actor (Tom Cruise)
Two (2) Academy Award nominations, including Best Supporting Actor (Jamie Foxx)
Two (2) Critics Choice Award nominations, including Best Picture
One (1) Golden Globe Award nomination for Best Supporting Actor (Foxx)

WHITBISSELL!

04-08-24, 12:09 AM

Either forgot or didn't know Fincher had directed Gone Girl. Might watch it if I get the chance.

PHOENIX74

04-08-24, 01:14 AM

My ballot, and this specific countdown, are not on the same page at all!

36. Dog Day Afternoon - Another all-time favourite that simply didn't figure in the films I'd sorted into the neo noir pile. I'm wondering now if a lot of the ones I've picked weren't in contention for other people. Regardless, this 1975 classic is so good. I still remember watching it one afternoon in the mid-to-early 90s and getting absolutely blown away. It instantly became a movie I hold near and dear - based on a true story, which when you see the film itself is hard to believe. Truth is stranger than fiction, and of course the film plays everything up to the hilt - every little absurdity. Al Pacino was incredible as Sonny.

35. Who Framed Roger Rabbit - I saw this at the movies when it came out and didn't like it - I thought the mixing of cartoon and real world was incredibly silly, and I was at an age when silly irked me. It is so due a rewatch, which is something I've been wanting to do for ages. In the meantime, it's a film I saw decades ago. Thankfully it's obviously neo noir, although the fact that it's a comedy lightens the tone.

34. Gone Girl - I really liked this when I saw it on release, and it's another movie that I'm looking forward to seeing again. I have it on DVD, but so far I've been too busy with other films. It would have needed that second go to firm up as a possibility for my ballot. A really nice twisty neo noir film with a great (let's emphasise great) performances from Rosamund Pike and Ben Affleck.

33. Collateral - I really liked this more the second time I saw it, and gave it another go because of the repeated times I'd seen other people rave about Collateral. Standout performance from Tom Cruise. Great battle of wits in one scene between Jamie Foxx and Javier Bardem. Be as it may, I still have films on my ballot that I thought better of, and not many of them are showing up on this countdown!

Seen : 44/68

John-Connor

04-08-24, 04:06 AM

98391
Collateral was my #14. Love the 'metropolis at night' vibes, ambiance, music and visual style by the great 'neon-noir innovator' Michael Mann.

SEEN: 62/68
MY BALLOT: 7/25
https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/gvGVkg2zBbKaZNrQzxISE889jh.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/wxk1cgl23GZQ1fC50GE9alPgNcJ.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/a5ccZmPZteTxnUZEuCbNyfQMysM.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/2LVm3fETVMOqwWPCmYCWVta9Eya.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/3q9SGLL9nccXgidRu3QOdAJjElk.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/iQCP69183K1QZo8bb23nkcLap3W.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/x5xCkGw4jutMcc8nmWLKNzbDKht.jpg

25. Mirage (1965)
22. In the Heat of the Night (1967)
17. The Driver (1978)
14. Collateral (2004)
11. Get Carter (1971)
08. The Hot Spot (1990)
04. One False Move (1992)

Sedai

04-08-24, 10:02 AM

For the weekend films, I have seen all four, but none of them made my ballot. I am most certainly due for another viewing of Dog Day Afternoon, as it has been quite some time since I last saw it. I remember liking it, though.

Who Framed Roger Rabbit is a fun and creative film, obviously riffing on classic noir tropes. I like it, but it didn't make my list.

Gone Girl is excellent, but I was really trying to but bona fide noirs on my ballot, and this seemed more like a straight up twisty crime thriller to me, so I left it off.

I liked Collateral, and I am a big Tom Cruise fan, but it didn't make my ballot.

Thief

04-08-24, 10:33 AM

There's also games for the neo-noir gang. Here's a little simple game of Fill in the Blanks.

Missing Word: Neo-Noir (https://www.sporcle.com/games/mister_pianoman/neo-noir)

Let us know how you do! As you'll see, neo-noir confusion is not exclusive to MoFo :laugh:

Holden Pike

04-08-24, 10:37 AM

Wow. Those are like old TV Guide crossword puzzle level difficulty. There you'd get clues like, "The Courtship __ Eddie's Father".

Miss Vicky

04-08-24, 10:39 AM

Thief

04-08-24, 10:39 AM

Wow. Those are like old TV Guide crossword puzzle level difficulty. There you'd get clues like, "The Courtship __ Eddie's Father".

......"in"? :shifty: :D

Thief

04-08-24, 10:46 AM

Miss Vicky

04-08-24, 10:51 AM

There will definitely be at least two more Finchers. As for Mann, I'm not familiar enough with his work or with wtf Neo Noir is to answer that.

Holden Pike

04-08-24, 10:53 AM

Forgot to add that yesterday's entries were the second ones for both David Fincher and Michael Mann. Fincher had The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo back at #84 and Mann had Manhunter back at #77. Do you think they'll get any others?

Fincher, yes (SE7EN and likely Zodiac, too). Mann, yes (Heat for sure and maybe still Thief, though that will have to show very soon).

Thief

04-08-24, 11:42 AM

8lists125pointsHeat (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/949-heat.html)Director
Michael Mann, 1995

Starring
Robert De Niro, Al Pacino, Val Kilmer, Jon Voight

Thief

04-08-24, 11:42 AM

7lists129pointsAngel Heart (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/635-angel-heart.html)Director
Alan Parker, 1987

Starring
Mickey Rourke, Robert De Niro, Lisa Bonet, Charlotte Rampling

Thief

04-08-24, 11:42 AM

TRAILERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpAhjOvQVj0

Heat - A meticulous master criminal and a dedicated police detective, whose personal life is in chaos, play a dangerous game of cat and mouse as the former try to stop the criminal's group from committing one last big heist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_lgHtoK5W4

Angel Heart - A private investigator is hired by a mysterious man to track down a singer. However, as he gets deeper and deeper in the investigation, he starts uncovering the truth of why he was hired.

Thief

04-08-24, 11:42 AM

I've seen both, but none made my list.

Heat is a pretty cool picture, but one that I'm not a big, big fan; at least not as much as a lot of film fans are. The bank heist and subsequent shoot-out is incredibly tense and impressive, the whole cast is great, but it's just not one I tend to go to.

Angel Heart is one I saw a very long time ago, and haven't seen since. I do remember the overall beats of the film, but barely remember specifics. I should definitely revisit it at some point.

SEEN: 45/70
MY BALLOT: 12/25

1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
11.
12. Bound (#59)
13.
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.

Harry Lime

04-08-24, 11:53 AM

I actually haven't seen Angel Hart. I know not cool. Since it's this high up on the list I'll have to change that. Heat is a great crime film with some high quality action scenes (some of the best ever) and exceptional performances.

stillmellow

04-08-24, 11:54 AM

I'm surprised Heat didn't make it into the top 10, but I'm glad it made it this far. It's my #4. Such a great character study of both the criminal and the detective chasing him.

I haven't seen Angel Heart.

Tugg

04-08-24, 12:04 PM

My #7 Angel Heart (1987).

SpelingError

04-08-24, 12:09 PM

I considered Heat, but I didn't vote for it.

Thief

04-08-24, 12:12 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... HEAT

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5e5c461346766d092c9cbfb4/ac9e26d8-d890-45ac-a040-7be95e410c5e/936VXRUW.jpeg
RT – 83%, IMDb – 8.3

Roger Ebert said:

"It's not just an action picture. Above all, the dialogue is complex enough to allow the characters to say what they're thinking: They are eloquent, insightful, fanciful, poetic when necessary. They're not trapped with cliches. Of the many imprisonments possible in our world, one of the worst must be to be inarticulate - to be unable to tell another person what you really feel. These characters can do that. Not that it saves them." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/heat-1995))

Johnny Restall, from Film Cred, said:

"Heat provides an imitation of both the style and content
of noir—of its suffocating atmospheres, its concern with male vulnerability, and
its aesthetic elaboration—which updates the genre’s uneasiness about
modernity by pointing to the primacy of style in postmodern times." (read full review here (http://www.edicions.ub.edu/revistes/bells17/documentos/571.pdf))

MovieMad16 said:

"Heat is easily one of the best crime films ever made. Two very likeable characters and two stories to tell. Al Pacino is a cop with a troubled love life. Robert Di Niro is a criminal who tries to stay away from bars. When these two personalities collide , its one hell of a ride." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/696518-heat.html))

Thief

04-08-24, 12:12 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... ANGEL HEART

https://madmonster.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/AlanParker3-1024x578.jpg
RT – 82%, IMDb – 7.2

Roger Ebert said:

"This is one of those movies where you leave the theater and re-run the plot in your head, re-intrepreting the early scenes in terms of the final shocking revelations. Angel Heart is a thriller and a horror movie, but most of all it's an exuberant exercise in style, in which Parker and his actors have fun taking it to the limit." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/angel-heart-1987))

Cameron Geiser, from Films Fatale, said:

"On its surface, the film lovingly recreates the look and style of classic film noir, liberally spiced with the saltier sex, language, and violence of post-Hays code cinema. External light contrasts sharply with dark interiors as Angel moves through a murky world far more morally compromised than he suspects." (read full review here (https://film-cred.com/angel-heart-alan-parker-horror/))

Iroquois said:

"Angel Heart makes for a great take on a familiar genre that may be prone to the odd moment of '80s excess but is still surprisingly solid in the face of a plot that seems to threaten repeat viewings but never actually does." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1464102-angel_heart.html))

rauldc14

04-08-24, 12:17 PM

Heat was 21 for me. I still haven't seen Angel Heart

Miss Vicky

04-08-24, 12:21 PM

I saw Heat when it was in the theater but never rewatched it and remember very little about it. I've never seen Angel Heart.

stillmellow

04-08-24, 12:38 PM

seanc

04-08-24, 12:39 PM

I rewatched Heat at some point last year. It’s absolutely fantastic, but I didn’t consider it here.

Holden Pike

04-08-24, 12:41 PM

98400

Heat was #21 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1990s, #48 on the original MoFo Top 100, and fell to #70 on the reboot of that list. Angel Heart was #94 on the original MoFo Top 100 Horror Films.

Little Ash

04-08-24, 12:44 PM

I'm surprised to see Angel Heart make it this high up on the list. I haven't seen Heat since the 90s. I was a late teen the last time I saw it and thought it was pretty great. But that was also an age where I put weight on Oscar best picture winners and don't trust my opinions from that age about these type of movies. I suspect it's still a pretty solid film, but not something that I'm particularly into. At least Heat does register as a neo-noir crime drama, and Angel Heart is clearly acting like a modern noir with a retro-noir vibe (but also packaged as a horror movie). The latter now makes me wonder if my questionable ballot entry that's a period piece blended with some horror (but is a lot more questionable as a noir) might actually make the countdown. Presumably not this late, but who knows as this point.

Allaby

04-08-24, 12:49 PM

Seen both, but not a fan of either. Heat and Angel Heart are both 6/10 films to me. Some effective moments and good performances, but not consistently entertaining or interesting enough for my liking.

Seen: 57/70

Sedai

04-08-24, 01:11 PM

I have never been over the moon for Heat, so it never really had a chance to make my list.

Angel Heart is another story. I had this all the way up at #8 on my ballot. When people ask me to define neo-noir in conversation, Angel Heart is always one of the first films I mention, along with stuff like Blade Runner and Chinatown. Whenever someone asks me what some of the darkest of the genre are, it is right up near the top of the list. Discussing it in any can lead to major spoilers, so I will just say: if you haven't seen this film, do so soon, as it is one of the finest examples of neo-noir. The film is too dark for some, but I like it a whole lot.

https://i0.wp.com/fictionadvocate.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Angel-Heart.jpg?resize=500%2C311

Thief

04-08-24, 01:14 PM

Stats: Pit Stop #7
https://i.imgur.com/fsA8V3Q.jpg

-

After hitting our seventh pit stop (70), here's were we are now:

Decade Breakdown

1960s = 11
1970s = 10
1980s = 6
1990s = 22
2000s = 10
2010s = 11
2020s = 0

Despite a decent showing from the 1970s and the 2010s, the 1990s keep rising, and it seems they will walk away with this. Nothing from the 2020s yet.

Recurring Directors

Michael Mann = 3
William Friedkin = 3
David Fincher = 2
Shane Black = 2
Martin Scorsese = 2
Christopher Nolan = 2

Michael Mann does a 1-2 punch between yesterday and today to get into the 3-entries group. We also had David Fincher and Shane Black join the 2-entries group this week.

Citizen Rules

04-08-24, 01:31 PM

I never seen Heat. But I did watch Angel Heart in the Noir HoF III.

I wrote this:
https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=64740
Angel Heart (1987) ***SPOILERS

I loved the first hour! Especially the way the director handled the scenes. I noticed on the longer scenes the opening fade-in would be a close-up of an object, something on a table or something small in the foreground. Then the scene would open up to a master shot so we could see the entire scene. The director would then take his time with the camera movements giving us plenty of 'in between time' so that we could soak up the atmosphere and 'be in the scene'. The sets themselves were so realistically dressed with small period piece items that I would pause the film just to get a good look at all the detail that went into those scenes. I'm impressed by this director!

I don't think I've seen many of Mickey Rourke films, but I was blown away by his performance. He covered the range of emotions and did them very believably. He made the perfect film noir detective and embodied the soul of Philip Marlowe.

I can't say the same for Robert DeNiro. IMO he's one of the most overrated actors, at any rate, he made a lousy devil. Even before I knew that's who he was, I could tell he didn't have a handle on his character so his performance felt flat.

Unfortunately the second hour went down the tubes. Charlotte Rampling and Lisa Bonet played intriguing characters and I liked their storylines. I wish they had more screen time as I would've liked the story to unfold in part through scenes with them. As it was their time was all too brief.

I didn't care for the scene in the gumbo house where the older man in a white suit delivers one helluva long monologue explaining the whole movie to the audience. Though the big reveal with Robert DeNiro confessing to be the devil felt silly to me, but not as silly Lisa Bonet's little kid with glowing eyes, what a weak ending for a film that started out so damn promising.

Thief

04-08-24, 01:40 PM

The great Eddie Muller on whether Heat is a noir or not.

Noir or Not? - Heat ('95) (https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=630442067766109)

"Heat, of course, fits in the great tradition of heist movies which – some of them are noir, some of them are not – so I'm a little bit on the fence on Heat [...] Depends on what day you catch me, whether I think it's actually film noir or not."

Thief

04-08-24, 01:56 PM

Hadn't even registered that this was a Robert De Niro two-fer. Is it just me, looking for things in common or are some of these pairings very serendipitous a lot of times? :laugh:

Holden Pike

04-08-24, 02:46 PM

98407

Angel Heart is another from my ballot. Adapted from William Hjortsberg’s novel Fallen Angel, which was pegged as “Raymond Chandler meets The Exorcist”. A pretty apt tag for this genre hybrid. Alan Parker made some significant changes to the story, the key being moving much of the action from NYC’s Harlem and other boroughs to the gothic trappings of New Orleans and some of the surrounding swamp country. Before he gave up on acting to focus on boxing for a bit, Mickey Rourke was a bonafide star and he gave one of his very best performances (only Barfly may be better) as a private detective circa 1955 named Harry Angel, tasked to find a missing minor jazz crooner Johnny Favorite, who disappeared shortly after VJ-Day in Manhattan. He may have suffered some trauma during the war leading to amnesia, but whatever his scars or identity now, the trail has long gone cold. Angel has been hired by a mysterious manager, Louis Cyphre (Robert De Niro), who wants Favorite to fulfill his contract.

98408

The investigative trail leads to some literal voodoo and bodies start piling up, too. As he gets closer to the truth he meets a pair of women in Louisiana, played by Charlotte Rampling and Lisa Bonet. Parker originally wanted Jack Nicholson and Marlon Brando for his Angel and Cyphre, but Rourke and De Niro was the perfect poerhouse '80s pairing. A devilishly fun exercise in style with perfect cinematography by Michael Seresin, who worked with Parker a lot in the beginning of his career (Bugsy Malone, Midnight Express, Fame, Shoot the Moon, Birdy) and a haunting score by Trevor Jones (Excalibur, Runaway Train, Sea of Love, Dark City).

Angel Heart was my fourteenth pick, a tidy dozen of its 129 points. “Alas, how terrible is wisdom when it brings no profit to the wise?”

HOLDEN'S BALLOT
4. Night Moves (#40)
7. The Grifters (#45)
8. One False Move (#73)
9. Blast of Silence (#48)
12. To Live & Die in L.A. (#43)
13. The Naked Kiss (#51)
14. Angel Heart (#31)
15. Shallow Grave (#95)
17. Dead Again (#90)
22. The Hot Spot (#85)
24. Blue Ruin (#82)
25. Johnny Handsome (DNP)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7XDLfPmBWw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RENurbqelg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8PvL1zdGgM

WHITBISSELL!

04-08-24, 03:04 PM

Is it just me, looking for things in common or are some of these pairings very serendipitous a lot of times? :laugh:

https://media1.tenor.com/m/BYN0a-2m1WYAAAAC/brady-bunch-the-fix-is-in.gif

Thief

04-08-24, 03:46 PM

AWARDS?

https://variety.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/heat-1995-c2a9-warner-_-dr-08.jpg

Heat received several nominations but no awards. These are some of the most notable:

Two (2) Saturn Award nominations, including Best Supporting Actor (Val Kilmer)
One (1) MTV Movie Award nomination for Most Desirable Male (Kilmer)
One (1) Young Artist Award nomination for Best Young Supporting Actress (Natalie Portman)
One (1) Cinema Audio Society Award nomination for Best Sound Mixing

mrblond

04-08-24, 03:48 PM

98409

Angel Heart (1987) my #1.

In the early 90's, me and a bunch of art-addicted boys and girls founded kind of a religious club around this film, proclaiming that the Cinema has reached its highest possible peak. We've passionately discussed it many long nights within dense smoke of cigarettes and variety of bottles.
If you want Mickey Rourke, this is it. Supported by the amazing Charlotte Rampling and De Niro at their best. All these directed by Alan Parker, one of the most notable filmmakers of those years. That's a Cult.

Needless to say that I've seen it dozen of times, and the "Egg scene" + "Rourke-Rampling meetings scenes" hundreds of times.

5+
100/100
98410
-----

My Ballot
▽
1. Angel Heart (1987) [#31]
...
4. The Driver (1978) [#79]
5.
6. Red Rock West (1993) [#88]
7. The Hot Spot (1990) [#85]
8. Shallow Grave (1994) [#95]
...
14. Purple Noon (1960) [#94]
15.
16. Thelma & Louise (1991) [#56]
...
19. Dog Day Afternoon (1975) [#36]
20.
21. Mona Lisa (1986) [#78]
22.
23.
24. Pulp Fiction (1994) [#37]
25.

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/h5v3wjJQNB7q2RntEnKDLhKtTFE.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/bd175Fmt3Web3j0qXahSKmdZPOe.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/wI6CalCMdSKXgx10gzfHY3vwyzf.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/iQCP69183K1QZo8bb23nkcLap3W.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/5t0mGiFlj5GBrZ7ggvvkMdFJ7fV.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/7n1KNXs4OFfeVLjJ3g10M8oK1fM.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/cQaqpwN5Nq0GNNKE1hIgYLpLlca.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/mavrhr0ig2aCRR8d48yaxtD5aMQ.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/8VuPD8ZKAqxT6F1HaH9sFFURmsi.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/d5iIlFn5s0ImszYzBPb8JPIfbXD.jpg

-----

Others in my radar:
▽
The Ninth Gate (1999) [one-pointers]
The Talented Mr. Ripley (1999) [#96]
True Romance (1993) [#60]

Thief

04-08-24, 03:49 PM

AWARDS?

https://mossfilm.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/angel-heart.jpg

Angel Heart received several nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:

Three (3) Saturn Award nominations, including Best Supporting Actor (Robert De Niro)
Two (2) Jupiter Award nominations, including a win for Best Actor (Mickey Rourke)
One (1) Young Artist Award nomination for Best Young Female Superstar (Lisa Bonet)
One (1) SIYAD Award nomination for Best Foreign Film

CosmicRunaway

04-08-24, 04:00 PM

Out of the last 6 reveals, I've seen all of them except for Dog Day Afternoon. I rewatched Collateral specifically for the Countdown, but it didn't end up convincing me to put it on my list. Angel Heart, however, is on there at #13. When it was nominated in the 3rd Film Noir Hall of Fame, I wrote this about it:

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=63424

Angel Heart (1987)
Directed by: Alan Parker
Starring: Mickey Rourke, Robert De Niro, Lisa Bonet

Angel Heart is a film that is more rewarding to attentive viewers. There are a lot of small, easy to miss details that play a key role in the story. Recurring visual motifs like the slowing fans connect each part of the film to its ending, providing clues along the way. There is audible foreshadowing as well, with sounds from later scenes accompanying earlier ones, and of course the symbolic heartbeat that can frequently be heard. The significance of these elements become more apparent on subsequent watches, so unlike many films that revolve around a central mystery, the film actually becomes stronger on repeat viewings.

Mickey Rourke is practically unrecognizable here, and not because he's since undergone reconstructive surgery due to his boxing injuries, but because his performance is unlike anything I've seen from him before. He's practically perfect as Harry Angel, the private eye whose every step towards the truth drives him farther away from what he's capable of comprehending. What starts as a simple inquiry into a hospital patient takes him down the eastern seaboard and into a mysterious, occult world that threatens both his life and his sanity.

The film combines two things I absolutely love: psychological horror, and a noir detective story. It's not a blend that's going to appeal to everybody, but I think they work really well together. The cinematography is great, and there are a lot of washed out colours that give everything this vintage look. The score is a mix of electronic tracks and blues music, that do a fantastic job setting the atmosphere in both New York and New Orleans. There are some genuinely uncomfortable moments here, though it's strange to think that the MPAA were more concerned about Rourke's buttocks in that one scene, rather than any of its far more disturbing implications.

Seen: 37/70

My List: 9
02. Blade Runner 2049 (2017) - #44
03. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005) - #42
05. Blue Ruin (2013) - #82
06. Mother (2009) - #67
08. Strange Days (1995) - #65
10. The Man from Nowhere (2010) - #87
14. Angel Heart (1987) - #31
15. Infernal Affairs (2002) - #91
21. Oldboy (2003) - #52
25. The Chaser (2008) - DNP 1-pointer

Holden Pike

04-08-24, 04:18 PM

We are coming toward the end, and I think only another eight of mine will be in this Top Thirty, meaning five of my remaining titles won't make it.

1. definite
2. absolutely
3. gotta be
4. Night Moves
5. surely
6. definitely
7. The Grifters
8. One False Move
9. Blast of Silence
10. shockingly (to me), this will miss
11. must be
12. To Live and Die in L.A.
13. The Naked Kiss
14. Angel Heart
15. Shallow Grave
16. extremely doubtful
17. Dead Again
18. no way
19. holding out feint hope, but probably not
20. absolutely
21. 100%
22. The Hot Spot
23. no way, José
24. Blue Ruin
25. Johnny Handsome (one-pointer)

That would make nineteen on the list, six no shows. We shall see. Would love to be wrong about a couple of the flicks I have figured as misses.

Miss Vicky

04-08-24, 04:29 PM

Predictions for My Ballot:

1. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
2. You Were Never Really Here (#50)
3. The Man From Nowhere (#87)
4. The Departed (#53)
5. The Big Lebowski (#38)
6. Will Make It
7. True Romance (#60)
8. Will Make It
9. Will Make It
10. Won't Make It
11. Will Make It
12. Shutter Island (#86)
13. The Nice Guys (#39)
14. Inherent Vice (#41)
15. Gone Girl (#34)
16. Pulp Fiction (#37)
17. Killer Joe (#66)
18. Will Make It
19. Will Make It
20. Might Make It
21. Will Make It
22.Might Make It
23. Won't Make It
24. Won't Make It
25. Won't Make It

That will leave me with 19 or 20 making the countdown, which is the highest ever for me.

Edit: I'm changing 22 to a maybe. So could be 21 that make it.

stillmellow

04-08-24, 07:16 PM

1. Definitely
2. Definitely

3. Brick (2006)
4. Heat (1995)

5. Definitely
6. Probably
7. Definitely

8. Point Blank (1969)
9. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (1988)

10. Guaranteed

11. Lost Highway (1997)

12. Maybe?
13. Probably
14. Probably

15. Oldboy (2003)
16. Basic Instinct (1992)

17. Definitely
18. Unlikely

19. Gone Girl (2014)
20. A Simple Plan (1998)

21. Probably
22. Probably

23. Maybe?

24. Under the Silver Lake (2018)

25. Unlikely

WHITBISSELL!

04-08-24, 08:18 PM

1 for 2 today. Watched Heat and rooted for the so-called bad guys. So the ending left just about everything to be desired. I don't know if it completely torpedoed the experience. The film is so effortlessly stylish and cool and that shootout is hard to top. I just didn't want Vincent Hanna winning. They should have just let them both die. That would have been a much more fitting end.

Angel Heart is another of those "blind spot" films for me. Where it's there in plain sight and there's nothing stopping you from watching it. But you never actually do. Hmm, I wonder if it would help if I got a RECTIFY tattoo?

46 of 70 seen.

WHITBISSELL!

04-08-24, 08:25 PM

GulfportDoc

04-08-24, 08:55 PM

Angel Heart(1987)

This film is worth watching for Mickey Rourke’s acting. He’s at his scruffy tawdry best in his role as a private investigator hired to locate a crooner named Johnny Favorite, who has broken a contract with Rourke’s client. This is some of Rourke’s best work since The Pope of Greenwich Village. It’s interesting to see fellow New Yorker Robert DeNiro in the role of Rourke’s employer, Louis Cyphre. It was the type of role that DeNiro could have phoned in, and it would be surprising if he had more than two day’s work out of it.

The rest of the cast did creditable work, including early roles for Lisa Bonet, and the always absorbing Charlotte Rampling.

Outside of Rourke’s performance, the chief attraction for this picture is the wonderful cinematography by Michael Seresin. His framing and lighting produced a gorgeous looking film. The set design is also memorably good, adding to the spookiness of 1950s New York and New Orleans cityscapes.

Apparently there was a tiff with the ratings board, culminating in some minor cuts in order to acquire the picture’s “R” rating. The objections are almost laughable today, what with every form of brutality, perversion, language, and violence so common in many popular contemporary films—which attests to a steep moral slide in the past 30 years.

The story itself was somewhat of a let down—starting with one premise and ending with a switcheroo conclusion. Without spoiling the narrative or its denouement, the outcome put me in mind of 2010’s Shutter Island.

The detective portions are noirish, but the picture is reallty a supernatural horror thriller. The shadowy photography is the principle nod to noir. Yet the acting and cinematography keep it from B movie status. And if one likes that kind of Faustian tale, then it holds up today as a good period piece.

GulfportDoc

04-08-24, 09:02 PM

Heat is a very enjoyable crime picture. Not sure what makes it neo-noir.

The acting and directing were first rate. I especially enjoyed the shoot out sequence in downtown L.A. It may be the best that's ever been done there. Didn't care much for the ending.

cricket

04-08-24, 09:09 PM

I find Heat to be a tad drawn out but still plenty awesome. I didn't consider it here.

Surprised to see Angel Heart but not disappointed. Cool flick that I haven't seen in some time.

beelzebubble

04-08-24, 10:44 PM

Gone Girl is my #20 and Dog Day Afternoon is my #3.
I saw Night Moves this weekend, It was fine. The best part of the movie is the final scene on the sea. It is wild and hilarious. I didn’t care for the nudity of an underaged actress. But now I know why I hadn’t seen it before. There is no way my parents would have allowed me to see that movie back then. Who Framed Roger Rabbit? was fun. It is the only movie I l liked of the last six that wasn’t on my list.

Thief

04-09-24, 12:53 AM

Apparently there was a tiff with the ratings board, culminating in some minor cuts in order to acquire the picture’s “R” rating. The objections are almost laughable today, what with every form of brutality, perversion, language, and violence so common in many popular contemporary films—which attests to a steep moral slide in the past 30 years.

Do you think the "steep moral slide" from the past 30 years is any steeper than the "moral slide" between 1957 and 1987? I mean, I'm sure that the things that did make it into the final cut of this film, or many other 1980s film, would still be mighty scandalous to people that grew up in the 40s and 50s.

WHITBISSELL!

04-09-24, 01:15 AM

Reviewing my list there's as many as five that don't stand much of a chance of being called. While another five appear very likely to be named.

1. The French Connection (1971)
2. You Were Never Really Here (2018)
3. Get Carter (1971)
4. In the Heat of the Night (1967)
5. Blast of Silence (1961)
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18. One False Move (1992)
19.
20.
21.
22.
23.
24. Point Blank (1967)
25. Collateral (2004)

Thief

04-09-24, 12:04 PM

9lists129pointsZodiac (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/1949-zodiac.html)Director
David Fincher, 2007

Starring
Jake Gyllenhaal, Mark Ruffalo, Anthony Edwards, Robert Downey Jr.

Thief

04-09-24, 12:04 PM

11lists132pointsThief (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/11524-thief.html)Director
Michael Mann, 1981

Starring
James Caan, Tuesday Weld, Robert Prosky, Willie Nelson

Thief

04-09-24, 12:04 PM

TRAILERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNncHPl1UXg

Zodiac - Set in late 1960s San Francisco, a cartoonist becomes obsessed with the Zodiac Killer and pairs up with a detective and a journalist to try to track him down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keET6waBJHk

Thief - A highly skilled but aging safe cracker wants to make one last big score for the mob in order to settle down with his girlfriend. Unfortunately, that's not what his associates want.

Thief

04-09-24, 12:05 PM

Seen both, LOVE both, but only one made my list.

As far as I'm concerned, Zodiac is a legitimate masterpiece. Love the way Fincher uses the relentless pursuit of this killer as a lens to show us the lengths that obsession can take you to. You can read my full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2409476-zodiac.html), but here is an excerpt from it:

As the film progresses, Fincher turns the tables on us to focus more on these three characters, becoming more of a character study than a plot-driven film. Thankfully, all three actors are up to the task delivering excellent performances all around. Downey, Jr. is particularly impressive in one of his best performances before he became absorbed by the MCU machinery.

I love how Fincher flips that switch from a plot-driven serial killer film into a more complex character study. It's quite brilliant, but also not something I would qualify as noir/neo-noir, so it didn't even occur to me to put it on my list.

Thief, on the other hand, is pure neo-noir. A great balance of style and substance. I have a review written that I might share in a while, but it's easily my second favorite Mann film. I had it at #11.

SEEN: 47/72
MY BALLOT: 13/25

1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
11. Thief (#29)
12. Bound (#59)
13.
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.

Holden Pike

04-09-24, 12:12 PM

98432

Zodiac was #9 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 2000s and #16 on the MoFo Top 100 of the Millennium.

Holden Pike

04-09-24, 12:16 PM

Forgot to add that yesterday's entries were the second ones for both David Fincher and Michael Mann. Fincher had The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo back at #84 and Mann had Manhunter back at #77. Do you think they'll get any others?
Fincher, yes (SE7EN and likely Zodiac, too). Mann, yes (Heat for sure and maybe still Thief, though that will have to show very soon).
https://media2.giphy.com/media/xTgeIUHZAC1I0mGvwQ/giphy.gif

Thief

04-09-24, 12:19 PM

Who would've thought? A Michael Mann 1-2-3 punch, and the second Fincher in three days. Mann now has four entries in the countdown, three of them in the last three days in a row. Fincher has three so far, two of them in the last three days.

Thief

04-09-24, 12:20 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... ZODIAC

https://i.imgur.com/0LWIOcl.jpg
RT – 90%, IMDb – 7.7

Roger Ebert said:

"What makes Zodiac authentic is the way it avoids chases, shootouts, grandstanding and false climaxes, and just follows the methodical progress of police work. Just as Woodward and Bernstein knocked on many doors and made many phone calls and met many very odd people, so do the cops and Graysmith walk down strange pathways in their investigation. Because Graysmith is unarmed and civilian, we become genuinely worried about his naivete and risk-taking, especially during a trip to a basement that is, in its way, one of the best scenes I've ever seen along those lines." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/zodiac-2007))

Haaniyah Angus, from Medium, said:

"Through his obsessive attention to detail Fincher has created a docu-drama that pays homage to the victims of the killings and a perfect neo-noir film of the 21st century that gives audiences the same sense of claustrophobia that the Zodiac Killer gave those involved in the case." (read full review here (https://haaniyah.medium.com/zodiac-and-obsession-an-analysis-of-finchers-greatest-film-3686c93f281e))

PHOENIX74 said:

"This is an engaging and enjoyable film that doesn't feel at all long even at 157 minutes. Best of all, we feel what the characters are feeling, whether that be curiosity or fear [...] From a top rate script to confident filmmaking from Fincher, added to a good score and interesting photography, this popular film entertains on successive viewings and is interesting - not to mention attention-grabbing." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2244085-zodiac.html))

Thief

04-09-24, 12:20 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... THIEF

https://moremovies.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/thiefcov.jpg
RT – 80%, IMDb – 7.4

Roger Ebert said:

"Michael Mann's Thief is a film of style, substance, and violently felt emotion, all wrapped up in one of the most intelligent thrillers I've seen. It's one of those films where you feel the authority right away: This movie knows its characters, knows its story, and knows exactly how it wants to tell us about them. At a time when thrillers have been devalued by the routine repetition of the same dumb chases, sex scenes, and gunfights, Thief is completely out of the ordinary." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/thief-1981))

The Guardian said:

"Everything about Mann’s debut feature Thief [...] is uncommonly assured for a first-time director, with many signature touches in place from the very first shots: the stylish neon-blue titles, the rain-slackened neo-noir nightscape, the pulsating synth score by Tangerine Dream." (read full review here (https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/mar/25/thief-at-40-michael-mann-james-caan))

Joel said:

"I find this to be a perfect movie. The dialog is impeccably written as this was handled by Mann himself. His pet project. So much technique is on display here, from the camera work with curiously metered positions and movements, to the night time street photography. The set design echoes an emerald gemstone in contrast with the overall diamond theme of glassy white." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1904430-thief.html))

Allaby

04-09-24, 12:22 PM

I watched Thief for the first time yesterday. I have been meaning to watch Thief for a while now. Honestly, I thought it was just alright, but not as good as I expected based on its reputation. I felt it dragged at times and wasn't as interesting or engaging as it should have been and ended up rating it a 6/10. Zodiac is good, but not a favourite, so it was not in contention for my ballot.

Seen: 59/72

Miss Vicky

04-09-24, 12:24 PM

Zodiac has been a favorite of mine since I first watched it in the theater. It's full of atmosphere and offers some really wonderful performances. That the crimes it centers around happened in my neck of the woods adds to the experience for me, though I wasn't yet born when they happened. It was a no-brainer that this one would get my vote and I placed it at #8 on my ballot.

Here's what I wrote about it when I rewatched it for the 2000s Countdown:
81125
Zodiac (David Fincher, 2007)
Imdb (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443706/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1)

Date Watched: 09/09/2021
Rewatch: Yes.

I decided not to include this film in last weekend's serial killer triple feature because, while it is obviously based around the crimes of the real life serial killer, that isn't what this movie is about.

David Fincher's Zodiac doesn't sensationalize the killings nor is it particularly violent. Instead, it focuses on the way in which the men who tried to solve the case became obsessed with it and saw their professional and personal lives suffer for it. And it is in the portrayal of those men that is the film's greatest strength. I'm not normally a fan of Jake Gyllenaal, but I found his Robert Graysmith to be both believable and very likable as the awkward but very dedicated cartoonist who does his best to crack the case. Mark Ruffalo is also excellent as Dave Toschi, the police detective working the case. And of course Robert Downey, Jr. is a delight as pesky but tenacious reporter Paul Avery.

The film is also impressive with its attention to detail, providing a very immersive experience with it gorgeous cinematography, excellent costuming, and effective soundtrack. And while Zodiac is a drama rather than a thriller, it still offers some pretty intense and creepy scenes.

Zodiac has long been a favorite film of mine and if we were allowed longer ballots it most certainly would get my vote, but with only 25 slots to fill I'm not sure I'll find the space for it, but it is definitely not out of contention either.

4.0+

My Ballot:
1. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
2. You Were Never Really Here (#50)
3. The Man From Nowhere (#87)
4. The Departed (#53)
5. The Big Lebowski (#38)
7. True Romance (#60)
8. Zodiac (#30)
12. Shutter Island (#86)
13. The Nice Guys (#39)
14. Inherent Vice (#41)
15. Gone Girl (#34)
16. Pulp Fiction (#37)
17. Killer Joe (#66)

Citizen Rules

04-09-24, 12:26 PM

I haven't seen Thief, but with James Caan and Tuesday Weld I need to see it!

cricket

04-09-24, 12:28 PM

2 good movies but I've been meaning to see Zodiac again because I think I can get more out of it. That scene down by the water is very disturbing.

Thief

04-09-24, 12:31 PM

THIEF
(1981, Mann)

https://i.imgur.com/VIbKYTn.jpeg

"I have run out of time. I have lost it all. So I can't work fast enough to catch up. I can't run fast enough to catch up. And the only thing that catches me up is doing my magic act."

The above quote seems to be the mantra, or perhaps justification, of Frank (James Caan), the titular character on Michael Mann's feature film debut. After spending a dozen years in prison, Frank finds himself out and alone, with no talent or skills other than stealing. Already in his 40's, Frank has his eyes set on a family, and to achieve that, he might have to do one last score.

The above synopsis might feel a bit cliché, and it's true; it has been done a thousand times. But Mann's script and direction paired with Caan's performance manage to keep the film feeling honest and fresh. Frank is not a nice guy; he is a bit of a jerk, but you can feel where he's coming from, and how he's gotten to the point where he is. His desire to settle down seems close when he is approached by Leo (Robert Prosky), a mobster that wants to hire Frank to do several jobs. One doesn't need a crystal ball to predict that things will go awry at some point.

Released in 1981, Thief oozes a style that became synonymous with Mann. The neon lights, the cool ambiance, the tough guys... it's all there. But as much as its style is upfront, Thief also manages to be a smart and mature thriller. I had to get over the racist slurs in the script ("chinks... Puerto Ricans... etc."), but I understand where it's coming from. Plus, most of the performances are pretty good, with Caan, and maybe Prosky stealing the show. And that's the beauty of it. Just two "old men" doing they're "magic trick" and delivering a damn, fine film in the process.

Grade: 4

Citizen Rules

04-09-24, 12:35 PM

My apologizes, but not only did I hate Zodiac (not my type of movie) I thought it was very flawed in how it was made. From the Personal Recommendation HoF IV (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=64212&highlight=zodiac), I wrote this:

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=80195

Zodiac (David Fincher 2007)

For me, watching innocent victims being tied up and stabbed to death is way too violent to enjoy the movie especially when the scene is so brutally realistic and depicts an actual murder...I just don't need that image burned into my brain. Many movie watchers are desensitized to violence by the movies that they watch, so that they don't view brutal killings as shown in Zodiac as much of a big deal. But I don't watch slasher horror films, etc and so the killings were horrible to watch.

As an aside, I don't think showing the killings are necessary or even helpful to the movie's story, they could've been done off screen. The stories focus is that the Zodiac is a conundrum, a puzzling mystery to all. By showing the audience the actual crimes it takes away from the feeling of being in the cops shoes and feeling completely baffled by the mystery, as it makes us privy to what actual happened.

Even without the disturbing killings, this was a poorly directed movie. Both Jake Gyllenhaal and Robert Downey Jr. blew in this. Downey was the same off the wall, nutsy druggie/drunk character that he's played in so many other films. He's like a caricature, good in a comedy-drama but silly in such a serious film. ***Update: he did prove himself a fine dramatic actor in Oppenheimer.

Gyllenhaal is just a boring actor. I've never really liked him. He had no handle on how to be the odd, cartoonist guy. I was painful aware of his attempts at doing a 'character' and he failed as his acting was too 'visible'. It was only towards the end of the film when he became obsessed with finding the identity of the Zodiac that his performance rang true.

Mark Ruffalo and his cop partner were both good in this and I did like whoever played Melvin Belli too.

The story itself was lagging, did this really need to be 2 hours and 45 minutes? Zodiac has the same lack luster quality as another disappointing news investigative movie, The Post.

A really good investigative, true crime movie was Spotlight (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1895587/)...about child abuse by pedophile Catholic priest...and that film didn't need to show children being horribly abused for shock value.

John W Constantine

04-09-24, 12:36 PM

2 from my list today. Zodiac was my #2. Thief was my #22. Just 2 much for a 2s'day.

rauldc14

04-09-24, 12:37 PM

Zodiac is a good movie although I don't love it.

I have yet to see Thief.

Citizen Rules

04-09-24, 12:52 PM

Zodiac is a good movie although I don't love it.

I have yet to see Thief.He just posted like 20 minutes ago:D

Thief

04-09-24, 12:53 PM

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOWs5YnZnbGZsemxmaDM0NmM2Nnk5N3pscWx5bnJocndkNXIzaHdzdiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/MuEgMdRME4tTqxinqr/giphy.gif

SpelingError

04-09-24, 12:57 PM

Seen both, LOVE both, but only one made my list.

As far as I'm concerned, Zodiac is a legitimate masterpiece. Love the way Fincher uses the relentless pursuit of this killer as a lens to show us the lengths that obsession can take you to. You can read my full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2409476-zodiac.html), but here is an excerpt from it:

I love how Fincher flips that switch from a plot-driven serial killer film into a more complex character study. It's quite brilliant, but also not something I would qualify as noir/neo-noir, so it didn't even occur to me to put it on my list.

Thief, on the other hand, is pure neo-noir. A great balance of style and substance. I have a review written that I might share in a while, but it's easily my second favorite Mann film. I had it at #11.

SEEN: 47/72
MY BALLOT: 13/25

1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
11. Thief (#29)
12. Bound (#59)
13.
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.

Thief didn't vote for Thief. Harsh.

SpelingError

04-09-24, 12:57 PM

I've seen and liked both, with Zodiac taking the cake, but neither film made my ballot.

Thief

04-09-24, 01:05 PM

Thief didn't vote for Thief. Harsh.

SpelingError didn't read well :laugh: Seriously, I did! I said I had it at #11. I didn't vote for Zodiac though ;)

WHITBISSELL!

04-09-24, 01:14 PM

2 for 2 today. Zodiac could have (and maybe should have) been on my list. It's a near perfect fusion of director to subject matter.

Thief is my #9 pick. That makes 9 spots accounted for. Not looking too good for a clean sweep but I'll settle for a dirty wipe. :tsk: :facepalm: :sick:

I recently rewatched it just because it's a great movie. It's got that trademark Michael Mann cool and a soundtrack by Tangerine Dream that impressed the hell out of me as a high schooler. Still does. It's one a handful of movies I associate with those times.

48 of 72 seen so far.

honeykid

04-09-24, 01:18 PM

Yes, we are putting a decent Crime/Thriller list together that has occasional Neo Noir mixed in. As I expected.

If we'd have a crime/thriller list I'd have struggled to get it to 25 for the opposite reason I did. :D

Seeing Angel Heart appear struck me cold, as I knew I'd forgotten it on my list. I looked with hope that I was wrong but, alas, no. Should've been there. :( Probabaly should've put Collateral too?

Heat I had at #6. I've said a few times that I like watching it more than I enjoy it and that was the same the last time I saw it about 4 years ago. It looks great.

I saw Zodiac once or twice and liked it a lot. Didn't really think of it for this, though.

seanc

04-09-24, 01:26 PM

Two of my absolute all time favorites that I just don’t put in this category.

SpelingError

04-09-24, 01:39 PM

SpelingError didn't read well :laugh: Seriously, I did! I said I had it at #11. I didn't vote for Zodiac though ;)

Apparently, I read your post too fast. Never mind the intrusion then.

stillmellow

04-09-24, 01:53 PM

A double whiff for me. I've never even heard of Thief.

Holden Pike

04-09-24, 01:55 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0CJ7_VtrNU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGODzzqhNV8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX7994EbIQ8

WHITBISSELL!

04-09-24, 02:00 PM

A double whiff for me. I've never even heard of Thief.Shhh, he's right there. He can hear you.

Torgo

04-09-24, 02:09 PM

In the "cool story, bro" department, when I visited L.A. many years ago, I went to the restaurant in Heat where Al Pacino and Robert De Niro had coffee together. I asked the host if we could sit at the same table. He gave me a quizzical, "oh, great, one of those people" expression before seating us at a likely random table.

As a consolation prize, he let us look at a list of orders celebrities made there. Fun fact: Keanu Reeves likes chopped Asian salad.

Sedai

04-09-24, 02:56 PM

Two votes from me today, even if seeing these films land now is sort of bittersweet. I am glad they both made it, never really questioned that they would, but honestly think they both should be in the top 20, with Zodiac perhaps being Top 10. Alas, apparently, not enough people place it in the noir style, so here we are.

Zodiac is a masterpiece, pure and simple. I have seen this film many times, and I have yet to find a flaw in it. I go back and forth on whether or not Zodiac or Se7en is Fincher's best, but I think when the chips are down, I would probably go with Zodiac, as it is the subtler film. Or maybe it's Se7en...like I said, I go back and forth! ;)

Anyway, I had Zodiac on my ballot at #5. It is easy the best of the genre from the 2000's, and stands toe to toe with some of the best of all time. I couldn't in good conscience bump it any higher, as objectively it isn't a pure noir, and I feel my top 4 are all quintessential examples of the style and themes of noir.

Fincher is incredibly detail-oriented film maker, and this is a wonderful example of him doing almost everything perfectly. The casting, the sets, the vibe, and even his amazingly subtle use of CGI create an absolutely convincing period piece that I never get tired of watching.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjVQUMdwwdQd8mZ77MGZ8C7G9Q7A3E4MXrCVZzM0RBA_2rd6pxQIxpRF2PwGhFP7JbAbqfeoJonfHS_-2CcuIyRYd0xGH9HMEyROgCIPCR6mA_IwQObtAO-l3Hsg9NP6ReQBEbY31xshsEryHqLKKqHoR8yiVqii86m588O0RRnnYQF5u3qXmkc_AX4kg/s1920/screencapsmovie.com_Zodiac%20(14).JPEG

As for Thief, I ran across the name as I perused lists of neos to watch on the run up, and it rang a bell, but I couldn't recall anything about the film. I watched it with my wife soon after the countdowns were announced, and we both loved it. I have since watched it two more times over the past couple of months, and it is an excellent example of the style. I love the city at night stuff, with the watery pavement and the shimmering lights and the minimal synth soundtrack totally works and locks it into its era nicely. The robbery with the thermite is a highlight, but overall, Thief is fantastic stuff. I had it at #18, but if I had submitted my ballot after the subsequent viewings, it might have made top 10.

My wife says that it may end up in her top 10 of all time with a couple more viewings. She loved it!

https://www.alternateending.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/utnYowSti7X2LhV0wqzWwfHkhfz.jpg

stillmellow

04-09-24, 03:52 PM

Shhh, he's right there. He can hear you.
😆

MovieFan1988

04-09-24, 04:51 PM

Have seen so far: 22
Gone Girl - I thought this movie was alright, nothing special.

Collateral - Seen this movie a long time ago, only remember bits and pieces of it, tbh.

Heat - One of my favorite Crime/Action movies and It's #2 on my ballot list.

Zodiac - Decent thriller, too bad you already know the end results if you already know the true story about the zodiac killer stuff.

Thief - An alright 80's movie, didn't care much for it.

Have not seen so far: 48

My Ballot List
#2 - Heat
#3 - The Dark Knight
#4 - Dog Day Afternoon
#5 - Who Framed Roger Rabbit

Kaplan

04-09-24, 05:11 PM

Harry Lime

04-09-24, 05:49 PM

Geez what is this the Michael Mann Countdown? Thief is a great movie and fine example for this list. It didn't make mine but happy to see it here. Zodiac did make my list at #14. Fincher's best film I think...and it plays even better on rewatches.

4. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (1976)
10. Alphaville (1965)
14. Zodiac (2007)
17. Fireworks (1997)
18. Pale Flower (1964)
19. The Grifters (1990)
20. Inherent Vice (2014)
22. The American Friend (1977)
25. Série noire (1979) - One pointer

Thief

04-09-24, 05:50 PM

AWARDS?

https://cdn.theasc.com/_headerCarouselImage/Zodiac-1.jpg

Zodiac received a lot of nominations and few awards. These are some of the most notable:

Six (6) Golden Schmoes Award nominations, including Best Director (David Fincher)
Three (3) Satellite Award nominations, including Best Adapted Screenplay (James Vanderbilt)
Three (3) Empire Award nominations, including Best Diretor (Fincher)
Two (2) Saturn Award nominations, including Best Action/Adventure/Thriller Film
One (1) nomination for the Palme d'Or at the Cannes Film Festival

Thief

04-09-24, 05:52 PM

AWARDS?

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhzqDD-XoY8vTkZ04YunenGbae2y0ZFaFgM9awTP9Jcc1tUuuYJXJPSWfa7E0tFh6dZq_wbQUkd3ezpGd3WpkiIwRy_UHbSc7Z_YPetsNQ0 zYZ_MWnoBBqJS7heUkS55WZHrJj7_8c37Zlv/s1600/Thief1.jpg

Thief received a few nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:

Six (6) Stinker Award nominations, including Worst Actor (James Caan)
One (1) Razzie Award nomination for Worst Musical Score (Tangerine Dream)
One (1) nomination for the Palme d'Or at Cannes Film Festival

Thursday Next

04-09-24, 06:02 PM

I have not seen Thief but probably ought to rectify that sooner or later. I have seen Zodiac , however I didn't much care for it.

Little Ash

04-09-24, 07:25 PM

Thief has been on my watchlist forever, but I've yet to manage to catch him. Okay, maybe it's only been on my watchlist for a few years.

Zodiac - I only watched this once about a decade ago, and it didn't strike me as the most memorable film. So I was surprised in the subsequent years to see people gushing over it. I liked Se7en and Fight Club back in the day. Not sure how they would play for me today, especially the latter. I only checked back in with Fincher for Mank! afterwards and was still underwhelmed.
I do want to revisit Alien 3 at some point.

mrblond

04-09-24, 07:39 PM

#29. Thief (1981) - I've seen it only once, about ten years ago. I love James Caan and I remember that this film was good but not fully satisfied my expectations. Considering how famous title it is, I've awaited a more exploding flick.
Anyway, it was briefly on my initial consideration list. I guess, it gonna make my top 40 in the scope after a rewatch.

beelzebubble

04-09-24, 08:30 PM

Neither Zodiac nor Thief are on my list. In fact, I have never seen Thief. But I recently saw a strange movie called Small Apartments. James Caan has a small part as a disgruntled neighbor. The depth and nuance of his performance in this kooky movie was amazing. So I will definitely be checking out Thief.

GulfportDoc

04-09-24, 08:48 PM

Do you think the "steep moral slide" from the past 30 years is any steeper than the "moral slide" between 1957 and 1987? I mean, I'm sure that the things that did make it into the final cut of this film, or many other 1980s film, would still be mighty scandalous to people that grew up in the 40s and 50s.
That's a good question. My 30 year reference was arbitrary. As you know the Hays Code and Joseph Breen enforced the unacceptable material until the late '50s, then by the Hippie era of the '60s the code was finished, replaced by movie ratings. Some of the previous censorship, like not being able to use the word "pregnant" was ridiculous.

Since then there's been a steady degeneration of what is shown on screen. In some cases it's tough to imagine how it could get any more rank. Regardless, one could say that the decay has been steady since the Hippie movement.

Thief

04-10-24, 12:50 AM

https://i.redd.it/qp6h1se5ffv21.jpg

PHOENIX74

04-10-24, 01:01 AM

32. Heat - Pretty close to making my ballot - Heat is a great film, and should have really remained the only other time Robert De Niro and Al Pacino featured together in a film aside from The Godfather Part II, because it stands as a perfect example of the kind of balance these two great performers can give to a movie when done right. It couldn't be bettered. Both Pacino and De Niro do their thing, but take nothing away from each other. We normally expect the cop to be calm and rational, and the crook to be crazy and chaotic - but here Pacino, as a detective, is the wild one with a fracturing marriage while De Niro's big-time thief is calm, assured and starting a serious relationship. Keep your eye out for Bud Cort's cameo by the way. I can't help it, I always keep an eye out for that guy. Just a great Michael Mann crime film which I do like a great deal.

31. Angel Heart - I'm pretty sure I've seen this, but my memory of it is really hazy.

30. Zodiac - An obsession, and who can blame all of the characters who have their lives thrown into turmoil because they're desperate to solve this real-life crime mystery. A newspaper cartoonist (Jake Gyllenhaal), reporter (Robert Downey Jnr.) and detective (Mark Ruffalo) try to uncover who the Zodiac killer's real identity is. The Zodiac terrorized San Francisco during the late 1960s, becoming the Jack the Ripper of the 20th Century in that his real identity will most probably never be known. A real murderer who was never caught, he sent letters to newspapers with ciphers in them, and goaded the media - one long-time mystery was solved when one of the Zodiac's messages was finally decoded in late 2021. Such a haunting film from David Fincher, which uses the eerie mystery and awful murders to expound on what obsession does to a person, and what it does to their life. I had it on my ballot at #23.

29. Thief - Another film I've been looking forward to finally getting around to seeing.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen : 47/72
I'd never even heard of : 9/72
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 16/72
Films from my list : 5

#30 - My #23 - Zodiac (2007)
#42 - My #19 - Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005)
#44 - My #21 - Blade Runner 2049 (2017)
#52 - My #11 - Oldboy (2003)
#81 - My #17 - Brick (2005)

PHOENIX74

04-10-24, 01:10 AM

My ballot still has quite a few good opportunities for hits, a couple that I know all hope for is gone, and some questionable neo noir choices...

1. 99% sure this'll be here
2. Might not be neo noir
3. Nope, 0%
4. 100%
5. 98%
6. 90%
7. 75%
8. 99%
9. 100%
10. Might not be neo noir
11. Oldboy (2003)
12. 99%
13. 35%
14. Might not be neo noir
15. 50%
16. Might not be neo noir
17. Brick (2006)
18. 100%
19. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005)
20. 80%
21. Blade Runner 2049 (2017)
22. 70%
23. Zodiac (2007)
24. 50%
25. Nope, 0%

Thief

04-10-24, 12:39 PM

8lists137pointsThe Conversation (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/592-the-conversation.html)Director
Francis Ford Coppola, 1974

Starring
Gene Hackman, John Cazale, Allen Garfield, Frederic Forrest

Thief

04-10-24, 12:39 PM

10lists137pointsThe Man Who Wasn't There (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/10778-the-man-who-wasnt-there.html)Director
Joel Coen, 2001

Starring
Billy Bob Thornton, Frances McDormand, Michael Badalucco, James Gandolfini

Miss Vicky

04-10-24, 12:41 PM

I don't think I've seen either of today's movies.

Thief

04-10-24, 12:42 PM

TRAILERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-_LxiRETWA

The Conversation - A paranoid surveillance expert is hired by a mysterious client to spy on a young couple, which triggers memories of a past case that ended badly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGWPqoEp5II

The Man Who Wasn't There - Set in the late 40s, a middle-aged barber disappointed with his life decides to blackmail his wife's boss. But his scheme goes terribly wrong uncovering even darker secrets.

Thief

04-10-24, 12:42 PM

Again... seen both, LOVE both, but only one made my list.

The Conversation is really good with great direction from Coppola, and an excellent performance from Gene Hackman. Here's what I wrote about him back in the day:

He really gives Harry Caul all the layers necessary for the character to exist, to be believable. Professionalism, obsession, frustration, anger, inconformity, resentment, impotence, the inability to deal with certain situations... everything is present in Hackman, and most of the times only through his body language and expressions. I really, really enjoyed seeing him in this.

Still, for some reason, I either didn't think of it or chose to leave it out. Glad to see it make the list, though.

As for The Man Who Wasn't There, it is a masterpiece of style and mood, like only the Coens could deliver; and still, how amazing it is that it barely squeaks into my Coens Top 10? That's how amazing they are. Billy Bob Thornton is great as the lead, the cinematography is gorgeous, love the twists and turns. It is a perfect encapsulation of the noir/neo-noir flavor. I had it at #7.

SEEN: 49/74
MY BALLOT: 14/25

1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4.
5.
6.
7. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
8. Following (#84)
9.
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
11. Thief (#29)
12. Bound (#59)
13.
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.

rauldc14

04-10-24, 12:42 PM

Seen both. Interesting that The Conversation is considered noir.

Holden Pike

04-10-24, 12:45 PM

98447

The Conversation was #18 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1970s. The Man Who Wasn't There was #84 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 2000s.

SpelingError

04-10-24, 12:47 PM

I've seen The Conversation years ago and barely remember it, but I remember enjoying it. A rewatch is overdue. I haven't seen The Man Who Wasn't There.

Thief

04-10-24, 12:48 PM

List facts!

This is the last tie of the countdown. For most of the countdown, entries have been fairly close from one another with the biggest point gap being 10 (between Collateral and Heat). But from now on, titles will be getting more and more separated from each other.
This is also the Coen brothers' second entry in the countdown, after The Big Lebowski at #38. I've already asked if you think they will have more, so if you think they will, which one do you think will come next?

Holden Pike

04-10-24, 01:00 PM

This is also the Coen brothers' second entry in the countdown, after The Big Lebowski at #38. I've already asked if you think they will have more, so if you think they will, which one do you think will come next?

I would still think both Blood Simple and Miller's Crossing are coming, probably Fargo as well. Wouldn't be shocked if No Country for Old Men was in there too, the way the list has gone, though it is the least Noirish of the six.

98450

Citizen Rules

04-10-24, 01:07 PM

The Man Who Wasn't There (2001) was #2 on my ballot. My review:

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.fve94jgES6EinlUqXqV6qQHaEA%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=1ad09c42f8113169bd3da6cb60040fa525863159bdf744df40970fa5166f1298&ipo=images

The Man Who Wasn't There (Coen bros 2001)

Such stunning film work! Visually the use of shadows and high key lighting, silhouettes and Dutch angles, wide overhead shots and deep focus...are all here and done to a level of sublime. This film should be used to train new directors in the art of lighting.

Billy Bob Thorton was one of the coolest-odd characters to ever grace a film noir. Damn he made this movie with his deliberately stoic acting and his taunt face of stone...Then there's his remorseful, yet downtrodden voice over narrative. The narrative itself, is a thing of beauty, both in the way the lines are delivered and by the pulp philosophy that rings truer then most films would ever aspire to say.

This is a slow paced film with long scene length, smooth and even editing between the scene transactions. The Coen brothers even have the genius to let the screen go black for a few seconds, in between major acts.

https://i1.wp.com/cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2014/09/The_Man_Who_Wasnt_There/lead_large.png?resize=474%2C292

I thought this would be a 5/5 and be added to my top 10. But true to Coen's style they go a little over the top with the UFO lady and the ending goes a little loose and broad. Still I can't complain as that's what the Coen's are known for, and I guess that's what you call an auteur's stamp.

rating_4++

Thief

04-10-24, 01:07 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... THE CONVERSATION

https://easyreadernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Conversation.1-1200x675.jpeg
RT – 97%, IMDb – 7.7

Roger Ebert said:

"This movie is a sadly observant character study, about a man who has removed himself from life, thinks he can observe it dispassionately at an electronic remove, and finds that all of his barriers are worthless." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-the-conversation-1974))

Koraljka Suton, from Cinephilia & Beyond, said:

"The fact that [Francis Ford Coppola] made Caul Catholic actually added a very important layer, turning the movie into as much of a character study as it is a neo-noir film. For his religion enables Caul to have an internal conflict of interest, which makes him and his emotional progress all the more interesting and oddly cathartic to witness. " (read full review here (https://cinephiliabeyond.org/the-conversation/))

Gideon58 said:

"It's so easy to overlook this quiet little thriller that Coppola sandwiched between his two Godfather movies, but there are rewards here for the brave and it's an absolute must for fans of the amazing Gene Hackman." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1382058-the_conversation.html))

Thief

04-10-24, 01:07 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... THE MAN WHO WASN'T THERE

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BOWUwMWZhODItYTQ1MS00MjAxLWEyMmItZDdkZDlkNzBjMDNhXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNDAxOTExNTM@._V1_.jpg
RT – 81%, IMDb – 7.5

Roger Ebert said:

"The Man Who Wasn't There' is so assured and perceptive in its style, so loving, so intensely right, that if you can receive on that frequency, the film is like a voluptuous feast. Yes, it might easily have been shorter. But then it would not have been this film, or necessarily a better one." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-man-who-wasnt-there-2001))

Supreme Being, from Stand by For Mind Control, said:

"In a way, Ed is like a man who knows he’s in a noir, who knows struggling is pointless, he’s doomed no matter what, and so does nothing. Thematically, it’s an interesting angle to take. Philosophically too—if struggle is futile, why struggle? Emotionally, it generates nothing at all." (read full review here (https://www.standbyformindcontrol.com/2017/05/the-man-who-wasnt-there-coens-noir/))

Citizen Rules said:

"This is stunning film work! Visually the use of shadows and high key lighting, silhouettes and Dutch angles, wide overhead shots and deep focus...are all here and done to a level of sublime. This film should be used to train new directors in the art of lighting.
" (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1795662-the-man-who-wasnt-there.html))

stillmellow

04-10-24, 01:17 PM

stillmellow

04-10-24, 01:18 PM

Both of today's movies are ones I've been meaning to see, but haven't gotten around to yet.

Holden Pike

04-10-24, 02:39 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgAdI4pxlTM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC7GrxeuCIM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huYQ7x0v9E8&t=11s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg27F1iWTt0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-0YC7hKR9I

WHITBISSELL!

04-10-24, 02:44 PM

2 for 2. I can see why The Conversation was included. It's Coppola's magnum opus but a neo-noir? I never considered it for my ballot. I guess I shouldn't have thrown together the list at the last minute. That's on me. Oh well.

Watched The Man Who Wasn't There so many years ago that I don't remember much about it. I remember the scene with the teenage girl in the car but had no idea it was Scarlett Johansson. I obviously didn't give it the attention it deserved and need to watch it again.

Neither of these were on my ballot.

50 of 74 seen so far

Allaby

04-10-24, 03:29 PM

Seen and liked both, but neither made my ballot.

Seen: 61/74

Torgo

04-10-24, 03:47 PM

The Conversation is one of my favorite movies and would have thus been near the top of the list if it passed my obviously faulty "neo-noir" test. Oh well. I'm glad it's this high anyway.

Next time I make a ballot for one of these countdowns, I'm hiring a genre sommelier so that they can smell, touch and taste the DVD, VHS tape or Blu-Ray to detect if it passes the genre test. That way, my ballot will be much more accurate.

seanc

04-10-24, 03:51 PM

Man Who Wasn’t There was my 22.

Didn’t consider The Conversation. I really like it though. Time to see it again actually.

cricket

04-10-24, 03:52 PM

I've been wanting to see The Conversation again and would need to in order to offer any opinion on it.

I have not seen The Man Who Wasn't There.

mrblond

04-10-24, 04:46 PM

#27. The Man Who Wasn't There (2001) got 16 pts from me taking my #10.

Stylish filming, interesting original story. What a cast! I'm close to say, this is the highest level of Coen brothers (probably a tie with Fargo). I've not seen it more than a couple of times and now I feel, I want to rewatch it again.
4.5
90/100
98453
-----

My Ballot
▽
1. Angel Heart (1987) [#31]
...
4. The Driver (1978) [#79]
5.
6. Red Rock West (1993) [#88]
7. The Hot Spot (1990) [#85]
8. Shallow Grave (1994) [#95]
9.
10. The Man Who Wasn't There (2001) [#27]
...
14. Purple Noon (1960) [#94]
15.
16. Thelma & Louise (1991) [#56]
...
19. Dog Day Afternoon (1975) [#36]
20.
21. Mona Lisa (1986) [#78]
22.
23.
24. Pulp Fiction (1994) [#37]
25.

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/h5v3wjJQNB7q2RntEnKDLhKtTFE.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/bd175Fmt3Web3j0qXahSKmdZPOe.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/wI6CalCMdSKXgx10gzfHY3vwyzf.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/iQCP69183K1QZo8bb23nkcLap3W.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/5t0mGiFlj5GBrZ7ggvvkMdFJ7fV.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/5ecDOWpNoYJfrQ4Epxx8vYXKUcQ.jpg
https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/7n1KNXs4OFfeVLjJ3g10M8oK1fM.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/cQaqpwN5Nq0GNNKE1hIgYLpLlca.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/mavrhr0ig2aCRR8d48yaxtD5aMQ.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/8VuPD8ZKAqxT6F1HaH9sFFURmsi.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/d5iIlFn5s0ImszYzBPb8JPIfbXD.jpg

-----

Others in my radar:
▽
The Ninth Gate (1999) [one-pointers]
The Talented Mr. Ripley (1999) [#96]
True Romance (1993) [#60]
Thief (1981) [#29]

Thursday Next

04-10-24, 04:49 PM

The Conversation was on my list. I did waver on whether it was noir enough but it seemed to pop up on lists of neo-noir films (and in the first line on Wikipedia ). After agonizing over how noir my list was I probably decided if there's anyone in it with a hat or a trench coat it would probably do. Besides, it's a very good, well-crafted, tense, (probably) neo noir movie about loneliness, guilt, paranoia and the difficulty of understanding other people.

Kaplan

04-10-24, 05:02 PM

The Conversation is fantastic, but it never crossed my mind when compiling my list. Had it, I doubt I would have considered it noirish enough. The Man Who Wasn't There, a sort of Camus meets noir story of a man who's just a barber and doesn't say much, was my #13. I love seeing it so high on the countdown. As for what else is coming from the Coens, I'd say Blood Simple, Miller's Crossing, and Fargo are all going to make it.

My List:
5. True Romance (#60)
11. The Friends of Eddie Coyle (#100)
12. Branded to Kill (#71)
13. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
14. Blast of Silence (#48)
18. Following (#84)
21. Mother (#67)
22. Purple Noon (#94)

Harry Lime

04-10-24, 06:48 PM

I think The Conversation is definitely neo noir and if you don't that's fine but it is a great film and that's hard to debate. Yes it's Coppola's lesser known film of the decade but that's almost cliche at this point and most film nerds know it and know it very well. I had it at #13. The Man Who Wasn't There is mid tier Coen brothers but similar to what I said about Hitchcock in the other thread, Mid tier Coens is still a very good film.

4. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (1976)
10. Alphaville (1965)
13. The Conversation (1974)
14. Zodiac (2007)
17. Fireworks (1997)
18. Pale Flower (1964)
19. The Grifters (1990)
20. Inherent Vice (2014)
22. The American Friend (1977)
25. Série noire (1979) - One pointer

John-Connor

04-10-24, 07:01 PM

98459
The neon lighting, the blue hues and glow of the city along with the Tangerine Dream score make an exemplary neo-noir masterpiece. Thief was my #6. Speaking of masterpieces, Heat excels in three different (sub)genres. So I have it high on my heist and crime lists. I just thought three Michael Mann flicks on my ballot was a bit too much. Nice to see it placed without my points.

SEEN: 68/74
MY BALLOT: 8/25

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/gvGVkg2zBbKaZNrQzxISE889jh.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/wxk1cgl23GZQ1fC50GE9alPgNcJ.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/a5ccZmPZteTxnUZEuCbNyfQMysM.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/2LVm3fETVMOqwWPCmYCWVta9Eya.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/3q9SGLL9nccXgidRu3QOdAJjElk.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/iQCP69183K1QZo8bb23nkcLap3W.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/lbBVqm1LABRbkgfkpD407LHC7dK.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/x5xCkGw4jutMcc8nmWLKNzbDKht.jpg

25. Mirage (1965)
22. In the Heat of the Night (1967)
17. The Driver (1978)
14. Collateral (2004)
11. Get Carter (1971)
08. The Hot Spot (1990)
06. Thief (1981)
04. One False Move (1992)

beelzebubble

04-10-24, 08:09 PM

I have seen both and neither is on my list. I have a feeling that none of my 1980s neo-noirs are going to be on this list.

GulfportDoc

04-10-24, 09:11 PM

To my taste, The Conversation is one of the great films. Period. It immediately never comes to mind as a neo-noir, although one could make a case that it is. The protagonist, Harry Caul, doesn't commit a crime. There is a femme fatale, however-- Meredith. And the mood is spooky noir. It was a masterpiece by Francis Coppola. If it had been included on my list, it probably would have been up around 4-5.

I really enjoyed The Man Who Wasn't There. Ranked it at #22. Admittedly I'm a huge Billy Bob Thornton fan, and this is one of his memorable performances, along with Sling Blade (1996). And what a cast!

Holden Pike

04-10-24, 09:12 PM

I have seen both and neither is on my list. I have a feeling that none of my 1980s neo-noirs are going to be on this list.
Don't know which '80s titles you have, but Body Heat, Blow Out, Blue Velvet, and Blood Simple should all still be coming. Blade Runner, too. Lots of B titles.

98460

Thief

04-10-24, 10:20 PM

To my taste, The Conversation is one of the great films. Period. It immediately never comes to mind as a neo-noir, although one could make a case that it is. The protagonist, Harry Caul, doesn't commit a crime. There is a femme fatale, however-- Meredith. And the mood is spooky noir. It was a masterpiece by Francis Coppola. If it had been included on my list, it probably would have been up around 4-5.

I think one of the main keys for noir/neo-noir is for the protagonist to be morally conflicted, which Harry clearly is. I also didn't think of it, but I agree there's more here than in some of the other films that have come up.

Thief

04-10-24, 10:27 PM

AWARDS?

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/f3fb9cd/2147483647/strip/false/crop/1920x1080+0+0/resize/1486x836!/quality/75/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F9d%2F50%2F1364997c4883b5deb1e6b7a66ff4%2Ftheconversationgenehackman2.j pg

The Conversation received a lot of nominations and few awards. These are some of the most notable:

Five (5) BAFTA Film Award nominations, including a win for Best Editing (Walter Murch and Richard Chew)
Four (4) Golden Globe Award nominations, including Best Actor (Gene Hackman)
Three (3) Academy Award nominations, including Best Picture
One (1) Palme d'Or award from Cannes Film Festival

Thief

04-10-24, 10:29 PM

AWARDS?

https://images.static-bluray.com/reviews/12432_5.jpg

The Man Who Wasn't There received a lot of nominations and few awards. These are some of the most notable:

Three (3) Golden Globe Award nominations, including Best Picture
Three (3) Saturn Award nominations, including Best Actor (Billy Bob Thornton)
Two (2) Cannes Film Festival nominations, including a win for Best Director (Joel Coen)
One (1) Academy Award nomination for Best Cinematography (Roger Deakins)
One (1) BAFTA Film Award for Best Cinematography (Deakins)

Sedai

04-10-24, 10:46 PM

The Conversation is a superb film. I have seen it many times and as mentioned a few pages back, I tend to watch this one alone. A ton to unpack here in really every frame; it's Coppola at the top of his game. I find it odd that this film flies under the radar so much, with many people being unaware of its existence. I always think of this as a genre-defining 70s paranoid thriller more than a noir, so it missed my list.

https://www.eyeforfilm.co.uk/images/newsite/theconversation_600.jpg

I saw The Man Who Wasn't There long ago, and have not had a chance to revisit it since. I recall it being a quirky genre bender, but one that didn't make a big impression on me aside from its excellent art direction and cinematography. No vote.

PHOENIX74

04-11-24, 06:39 AM

I have both of these on my ballot, which makes it 4/4 from my 2 ballots on both noir countdowns today...

28. The Conversation - Why is this not Number One? I always assume my number one is everybody's number one, and that's what we have with The Conversation. It's the most paranoid movie I can think of from a decade of paranoia - a real film of it's time. The opening scene is what really reels you in - the taping of the conversation and the conversation itself both competing for space in your mind as you try to make out what the film is about. Meeting Harry R. Caul (Gene Hackman) is a little like meeting a conspiracy theorist who defies the definition by being onto something - knowing that power is information. It's a film of quiet desperation, lost innocence, moral quandaries and our supreme need for justice - or at least what we see as justice. Hackman is simply great here, but so is the sound, the story, it's visual accompaniment, and Francis Ford Coppola's peerless direction. It's one of my favourite films - and one I see as amongst the best of all time. I had it at #1.

27. The Man Who Wasn't There - Great Coen Bros movie, with a kind of lazy narration which introduces such a strange dreamy feel to the world of Ed Crane (Billy Bob Thornton) - a barber, not a private detective, cop, lothario or soldier of fortune. A barber. It's Ed, a dry-cleaning deal, murder, misunderstanding, affair, embezzlement, murder, mistake and a whole host of unfortunate and fortunate events that happen while Ed calmly and succinctly communicates his thoughts - as if this is all happening to somebody else. It's his detachment which gives everything such an unreal aura, and the black and white photography compliments it beautifully well. Great looking, great sounding movie constructed with expert storytelling hands. I had The Man Who Wasn't There at #24 on my list. My highest and lowest (apart from my 1-pointer) appearing right next to each other.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen : 49/74
I'd never even heard of : 9/74
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 16/74
Films from my list : 7

#27 - My #24 - The Man Who Wasn't There (2001)
#28 - My #1 - The Conversation (1974)
#30 - My #23 - Zodiac (2007)
#42 - My #19 - Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005)
#44 - My #21 - Blade Runner 2049 (2017)
#52 - My #11 - Oldboy (2003)
#81 - My #17 - Brick (2005)

Little Ash

04-11-24, 09:13 AM

The Conversation - when I looked at the banner of neo-noirs in this thread, or the countdown thread, after submitting my ballot, I kind of face-palmed myself for forgetting it. It would have been in my top 3, possibly fighting for the #1 spot. (Sorry PHOENIX74!)

The Man Who Wasn't There - I didn't forget and was my #11.

Thief

04-11-24, 11:14 AM

13lists140pointsSin City (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/187-sin-city.html)Director
Frank Miller & Robert Rodriguez, 2005

Starring
Bruce Willis, Jessica Alba, Clive Owen, Mickey Rourke

Thief

04-11-24, 11:14 AM

12lists141pointsMemories of Murder (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/11423-memories-of-murder.html)Director
Bong Joon-ho, 2003

Starring
Song Kang-ho, Kim Sang-kyung, Kim Roi-ha, Song Jae-ho

Thief

04-11-24, 11:14 AM

TRAILERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Dj6ktPU5c

Sin City - A series of intertwining tales, including a tough vigilante looking for revenge, a grizzled cop pursuing a child murderer while dealing with corruption, and an ex-prostitute trying to get away from her former pimp with her new boyfriend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n_HQwQU8ls

Memories of Murder - Set in 1986, two detectives struggle with the case of the first documented serial killer in Korea.

Thief

04-11-24, 11:14 AM

Seen both, like both quite a bit, but none made my list.

I revisited Sin City a couple of months ago for the Neo-noir HoF and it held up pretty well. Here's my full review (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2442071-sin_city.html), and an excerpt from it:

Overall, Sin City succeeds in bringing these classic noir shades into modern settings, with its thrilling direction and unique visual style. However, it is thanks to its colorful characters (no pun intended) and engaging storytelling that it ultimately sticks the landing.

Still, it's not enough for me to put it on my list.

Memories of Murder is really, really good; probably Bong's most accomplished film after Parasite (although I would still put Mother above both). Still, I feel like I should rewatch it cause I didn't feel it hit me as I expected. That, and the fact that I see it more as a crime thriller/drama instead of neo-noir, is probably why I kept it off my list.

SEEN: 51/76
MY BALLOT: 14/25

1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4.
5.
6.
7. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
8. Following (#84)
9.
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
11. Thief (#29)
12. Bound (#59)
13.
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.

Miss Vicky

04-11-24, 11:22 AM

I really disliked Sin City. I haven't seen Memories of Murder.

Allaby

04-11-24, 11:22 AM

Seen and liked both, but neither made my ballot.

Seen: 63/76

Holden Pike

04-11-24, 11:28 AM

98471

Memories of Murder was #27 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 2000s as well as #58 on the MoFo Top 100 Foreign Films. SIN CITY was #56 on the MoFo Top 100 of the Millennium, moved up to #47 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 2000s, and was way up at #3 on the MoFo Top 100 Comic Book Movies.

stillmellow

04-11-24, 11:32 AM

Sin City is my #22, and a movie my view has changed of over time. Like with Chris Nolan, I started rating it super high, but over time I began to see all of the problems with it, and my reviews became much lower.

However, (just like with Chris Nolan) I've come around to love it for what it is. An explosive, exaggeration of Noir that goes so far over the top that it also works as pure action/spectacle. I really like it.

I haven't seen memories of murder, but now I really want to.

seanc

04-11-24, 11:53 AM

Memories Of Murder was my 5. Fantastic direction and characterizations set it apart.

Haven’t watched Sin City since the theater. I was pretty lukewarm on a movie that doesn’t seem to lend itself to indifference. I’m in no hurry to go back to it, but maybe someday.

Citizen Rules

04-11-24, 12:06 PM

...Haven’t watched Sin City since the theater. I was pretty lukewarm on a movie that doesn’t seem to lend itself to indifference. I’m in no hurry to go back to it, but maybe someday.I haven't seen Sin City but I'm curious as to what you mean by, 'doesn’t seem to lend itself to indifference'. Does that mean the film is preachy?

Holden Pike

04-11-24, 12:26 PM

I haven't seen Sin City but I'm curious as to what you mean by, 'doesn’t seem to lend itself to indifference'. Does that mean the film is preachy?
I suspect they mean you'll either love it or hate it, with little middleground. Preachy is not really something that could be ascribed to Frank Miller's world of SIN CITY.

seanc

04-11-24, 12:27 PM

I haven't seen Sin City but I'm curious as to what you mean by, 'doesn’t seem to lend itself to indifference'. Does that mean the film is preachy?

It just seems like a love it or hate it film because it’s so stylized. My opinion is definitely anecdotal, but I don’t feel like I ever hear people say, “it’s fine”, when Sin City comes up.

Citizen Rules

04-11-24, 12:30 PM

I suspect they mean you'll either love it or hate it, with little middleground. Preachy is not really something that could be ascribed to Frank Miller's world of SIN CITY.

It just seems like a love it or hate it film because it’s so stylized. My opinion is definitely anecdotal, but I don’t feel like I ever hear people say, “it’s fine”, when Sin City comes up.Ah, thanks guys, that all makes sense now.

mrblond

04-11-24, 01:15 PM

#26. Sin City (2005) - I've seen it couple of times, in theatre first. I have it on DVD too. I remember how eagerly awaited its release was back in the mid 2000's. It was so intensively advertised everywhere all around. That's true, this film brings diverse feelings, it is good, I like it and at the same time I think of it as a mixed bag work.
I knew, it is a popular title in the forum and it probably doesn't need my support, anyway, it was somewhere in the far end on my radar for this countdown.

98479

Thief

04-11-24, 01:59 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... SIN CITY

https://i.imgur.com/CtiDlmk.jpg
RT – 76%, IMDb – 8.0

Roger Ebert said:

"The movie is not about narrative but about style. It internalizes the harsh world of the Frank Miller Sin City comic books and processes it through computer effects, grotesque makeup, lurid costumes and dialogue that chops at the language of noir. " (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/sin-city-2005))

Ryan Brown, from Medium, said:

"The film is neo-noir on loads of crack, oozing with visual finesse in every scene, every shot, and every wild frame." (read full review here (https://medium.com/pantheon-of-film/sin-city-review-dated-noir-thats-worth-a-dame-3021774ca92f))

John McClane said:

"It’s hard for one to describe Sin City and its sinning inhabitants. One can only hope to give a film such as this enough credit in a review. To amount to the level as such as it in words can only be so difficult. It’s astonishingly hard to amount to the film’s greatness in sentences or paragraphs. Hopefully these words can give Sin City the proper treatment of glory it deserves; damn, sin is good." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/261976-sin_city.html))

Thief

04-11-24, 01:59 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... MEMORIES OF MURDER

https://www.indiewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Memories-of-Murder-Featured.jpeg
RT – 95%, IMDb – 8.1

Seongyong Cho, from RogerEbert.com, said:

"Loosely based on Kim Gwang-rim's stage play Come to See Me, the director/co-writer Bong Joon-ho made a superb country thriller depending on mood and atmosphere. With its stunning cinematography, its scenes are filled with a unique feeling of the specific time and place, along with the subtle sense of uneasiness." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/far-flung-correspondents/a-south-korean-zodiac))

MoMA said:

"Bong Joon-ho offers his own grimly sardonic take on the hardboiled noir procedural, using police blotter and news accounts of South Korea’s first known serial killer to meditate on civilization and its discontents." (read full review here (https://www.moma.org/calendar/events/8842))

aronisred said:

"this is one of it not the most satisfying serial killer movies ever where they don't catch the killer. Its about the process. Even something like Zodiac doesn't feel satisfying. But for some reason this movie felt satisfying because the movie plays up the 'no one is perfect' card." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1951245-memories_of_murder.html))

CosmicRunaway

04-11-24, 02:12 PM

Every time I see people giving Zodiac high praise, I tell myself I should rewatch it, but I never do. I thought it was okay when I saw it, but I feel like I'd probably appreciate it more now if I ever did give it another chance. Kind of similarly, Sin City is a film I turned off after 15 minutes, though I think the stylistic choices that I found off-putting before might not bother me so much now.

I watched Memories of Murder in the 2nd MoFo Movie Roulette, and wrote this at the time:
https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=80971

Memories of Murder / 살인의 추억 (2003)
Direxted By: Bong Joon-ho
Starring: Song Kang-ho, Kim Sang-kyung, Kim Roi-ha

Honestly, I don't really have much to say about Memories of Murder. It made good use of its atmosphere, and has great performances - particularly from Song Kang-ho and Kim Sang-kyung. The cinematography is not as captivating as it is in Mother or Parasite, but considering this was only Bong Joon-ho's second film, its still fairly impressive.

The story is almost as much about police brutality as it is about Korea's first serial killer. The focus is also more on the detectives and their obsession with finding the culprit, leading each of them to question the procedural methods they once believed in. Despite the subject matter, the tone isn't that dark overall, as comedic elements are woven in throughout the film.

I can imagine that the lack of closure might not be satisfactory for viewers who didn't know that Memories of Murder was loosely based on a real, unsolved case. Personally I didn't mind the ending, but I did expect something a little more dramatic that would carry further weight than what actually happened. I still enjoyed the film though, and I'm glad that I finally watched it.

I actually rewatched it a little while ago, and while I still don't like it as much as Mother or Parasite, it managed to make my ballot at #17. I actually didn't initially consider it, but while looking at lists other people had compiled online, I saw it come up a few times, checked its eligibility, and reconsidered it.

I think what convinced me was the futility of it all, which is a fairly common theme in noirs. Adding the film's atmosphere to that, I was able to get that neo-noir vibe I based my ballot on, and I'm happy to see others thought the same as well.

Seen: 39/76

My List: 10
02. Blade Runner 2049 (2017) - #44
03. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005) - #42
05. Blue Ruin (2013) - #82
06. Mother (2009) - #67
08. Strange Days (1995) - #65
10. The Man from Nowhere (2010) - #87
14. Angel Heart (1987) - #31
15. Infernal Affairs (2002) - #91
17. Memories of Murder (2003) - #25
21. Oldboy (2003) - #52
25. The Chaser (2008) - DNP 1-pointer

Little Ash

04-11-24, 02:29 PM

I still have never seen Memories of a Murder. I'm pretty sure I've seen all of Sin City. Since it's an anthology movie and I read some of the source graphic novels, it all kind of blurs together. Unfortunately it kind of just exists in my mine in that juvenile region of something that's trying too hard (the source material probably isn't helping on that front), which, maybe if I did rewatch it, I'd give it a fairer shake, but that's just where it lives in my mind's eye.

WHITBISSELL!

04-11-24, 03:24 PM

1 for 2 today and neither made my ballot. It's not looking too good for my list. I have mixed feelings about Sin City. I appreciate the craftsmanship on display but just can't get past the underlying puerile aspects. I haven't seen Memories of a Murder but I have loved most if not all of the Korean cinema I've seen. I need to watch it.

51 of 75 seen so far.

Holden Pike

04-11-24, 03:51 PM

I am going to predict....a Kurosawa and a Tarantino in tomorrow's reveals.

John-Connor

04-11-24, 04:01 PM

I'll go Kurosawa and Nicolas Winding Refn..

cricket

04-11-24, 04:23 PM

I did not expect much from Sin City but I pretty much loved it-my #22

I did expect a lot from Memories of Murder but the comedic elements kept me from loving it.

1. Killer Joe (#66)
3. Gone Baby Gone (#64)
4. The Player (#47)
9. Mona Lisa (#78)
11. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (#62)
12. Body Double (#69)
15. The Driver (#79)
17. Night Moves (#40)
21. Manhunter (#77)
22. Sin City (#26)
24. Bound (#59)

Thief

04-11-24, 04:33 PM

I am going to predict....a Kurosawa and a Tarantino in tomorrow's reveals.

I'll go Kurosawa and Nicolas Winding Refn..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQQcFGNUcAE6Xf3.jpg

SpelingError

04-11-24, 04:34 PM

I haven't seen Sin City. Memories of Murder is very good, but it didn't make my ballot.

Kaplan

04-11-24, 05:11 PM

Two for me. Sin City is a blast of pure comic book style pulp and I had it at #16. Memories of Murder is definitely the film that made me initially notice Bong Joon Ho, and I put it at #4. As a side note they did finally solve those murders long after the movie came out, and it turned out to be a guy already serving a life sentence who eventually confessed after his DNA was linked to several of the victims.

My List:
4. Memories of Murder (#25)
5. True Romance (#60)
11. The Friends of Eddie Coyle (#100)
12. Branded to Kill (#71)
13. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
14. Blast of Silence (#48)
16. Sin City (#26)
18. Following (#84)
21. Mother (#67)
22. Purple Noon (#94)

Harry Lime

04-11-24, 05:47 PM

I like Sin City well enough but it doesn't have that draw it did initially. Still cool movie to have in this countdown - it makes sense. Memories of a Murder is an excellent film that I couldn't leave off my list. I had it at #15.

4. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (1976)
10. Alphaville (1965)
13. The Conversation (1974)
14. Zodiac (2007)
15. Memories of Murder (2003)
17. Fireworks (1997)
18. Pale Flower (1964)
19. The Grifters (1990)
20. Inherent Vice (2014)
22. The American Friend (1977)
25. Série noire (1979) - One pointer

beelzebubble

04-11-24, 06:03 PM

Nope and nope.

GulfportDoc

04-11-24, 08:01 PM

I think one of the main keys for noir/neo-noir is for the protagonist to be morally conflicted, which Harry clearly is. I also didn't think of it, but I agree there's more here than in some of the other films that have come up.
You're right. Good point about being morally conflicted.

GulfportDoc

04-11-24, 08:50 PM

Sin City (2005)

This picture was a new watch for me. It’s a full-bodied satire of the noir style based upon Frank Miller’s comic book series, Sin City. In replication of a comic book look the filming technology, or “visual shaping” was outstanding. The enhanced black and white photography was occasionally peppered with stark spot insertions of bright color. Consqently the film won the Technical Grand Prize at the Cannes film festival.
It boasted an all star cast, including Bruce Willis, Mickey Rourke, Benicio del Toro, Jessica Alba, Alexi Biedel, Rutger Hauer, and Clive Owen. The direction is chiefly by Robert Rodriguez (Machete). with a little help from Frank Miller and Quentin Tarantino. Rodriguez also filmed and edited.

The picture is complex with competing story lines presented in six sections, so I won’t attempt a synopsis. There is lots of graphic violence present in a matrix of exaggerated comic book style, and one has to suspend credulity when listening to hammy overly dramatic lines uttered by the actors. For those who appreciate unconventional or strange productions, they will enjoy this picture. But to me the picture was a heavy handed, although technically accomplished, spoof of noir that had little appeal.

Thief

04-11-24, 11:24 PM

AWARDS?

https://www.indiewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/willis.jpg

Sin City received a lot of nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:

Nine (9) Satellite Award nominations, including Best Supporting Actor (Mickey Rourke)
Five (5) Saturn Award nominations, including a win for Best Supporting Actor (Rourke)
Three (3) ALMA Award nominations, including Best Actor (Benicio del Toro)
Three (3) MTV Movie Award nominations, including a win for Sexiest Performance (Jessica Alba)
Two (2) Cannes Film Festival nominations, including the Technical Grand Prize (Robert Rodriguez)

Thief

04-11-24, 11:25 PM

AWARDS?

https://cdn.theplaylist.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/14184335/Memories-of-Murder.jpg

Memories of Murder received a lot of nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:

Nine (9) Grand Bell Award nominations, including a win for Best Film
Six (6) Cine21 Movie Award nominations, including a win for Best Actor (Song Kang-ho)
Four (4) Cognac Festival du Film Policier Awards, including the Grand Prix Award
Two (2) Blue Dragon Award nominations, including a win for Best Cinematography (Hyung Koo Kim)
One (1) Chlotrudis Award nomination for Best Visual Design

Iroquois

04-12-24, 01:02 AM

three votes.

seen gone girl at least two or three times and think it's a generally solid time, though i guess i'd put it somewhere in the middle of a prospective fincher ranking.

collateral was my #17. mann's capacity for crafting dense crime epics is impressively compartmentalised within this particular story's 24-hour timeframe and the minimal premise of two guys in a car is carried out so well by cruise and foxx. the shift to digital is also a nice touch.

heat was my #4. kind of the boring choice for the best mann film, but it's more than earned it.

i had not seen angel heart in a while before submitting my ballot, but i rewatched it recently and found it excellent enough that i might have put it on there.

zodiac is definitely good, maybe fincher's best but i'd have to get around to revisiting it to confirm.

thief was my #5. i obviously gave the edge to heat, but this is basically tied for it and arguably the most noirish of any of his films with its absolutely singular focus on caan as the titular crook. banging score, too.

the conversation and the man who wasn't there both fall under "seen once and liked". really should revisit them.

sin city used to be a favourite of mine, but as with just about every other rodriguez film i've more or less outgrown it. every once in a while, i think about going back, but whether i ever will is rather unlikely.

memories of murder is the best bong film, which counts for a lot.

PHOENIX74

04-12-24, 01:22 AM

26. Sin City - Seen this numerous times, the last time being in a recent neo-noir hall of fame. I wrote that "I find Sin City to be an interesting, direct descendant of classic film noir - with private detectives, cops, femme fatales and conspiracies all mixed together in the back alleys, rainy streets and dark nights these tales usually play out in. I've always really liked it - without being a super fan (I never got around to seeing the sequel or reading the graphic novels.) Something this over the top was always going to appeal to me to some degree, and there's absolutely no debating the visual flair the film has. It's absolutely gorgeous, and it's mix of animation and live-action has a look that was completely original in it's day." It's extremely nice film to just gaze at. Was never going to make my ballot though.

25. Memories of Murder - I don't know if maybe I didn't consider this neo noir, because it's certainly good enough to make my ballot. It didn't though. I keep meaning to get the Criterion edition. It's the first Bong Joon-ho film I ever saw, and I remember being extremely surprised by how funny he made this, despite the subject matter and despite treating the subject matter itself very seriously. I really marveled at that, and at that very time the first stirrings of "need to look more at South Korean filmmaking" started to enter my mind. Interesting to note that the serial killer who inspired this movie was eventually found - turns out he was serving time already for killing his sister-in-law when it was discovered that he was the guy who killed 15 women and girls over an 8 year period from 1986 to 1994. But get this : by the time he was found, the statute of limitations had run out, so he can't be prosecuted for it. (Excuse me if someone has already said all of this.) He's been up for parole since 2015, serving a life sentence - so I think they should just never grant him parole.

Seen : 51/76

Thursday Next

04-12-24, 02:39 AM

Sin City was my #9. It's a brilliant modern pastiche of noir, cleverly designed to bring the look of the comic book to life.

CosmicRunaway

04-12-24, 03:17 AM

Interesting to note that the serial killer who inspired this movie was eventually found - turns out he was serving time already for killing his sister-in-law when it was discovered that he was the guy who killed 15 women and girls over an 8 year period from 1986 to 1994. But get this : by the time he was found, the statute of limitations had run out, so he can't be prosecuted for it.
I think if you kill that many people, the statute of limitations shouldn't apply, or the window for prosecution should at least get longer for each murder committed.

Though with the complete lack of justice, it seems that Bong Joon-ho got the ending right after all.

Torgo

04-12-24, 09:05 AM

Memories of Murder is indeed a masterpiece, ending up at #8 on my list.

I didn't know what to make of Sin City when I first saw it in theaters, but I ended up really liking it when I watched it again recently. Not quite enough to make my ballot, though. Anyway, here's a review:

It was nice to watch this again because if I could sum up my first viewing experience with one word, it would be "overwhelming." With the movie's then-unique visuals, flowery narration, just as flowery dialogue and hard-R violence, there was a lot for my slightly younger brain to process. I liked it, but the many stimuli affected my enjoyment. This time, I knew what to expect and thus was in a better space to enjoy the ride and enjoy it I did.

While everything I mentioned made this viewing more fun, they would all be sound and fury if it weren't for the characterizations, which are the movie's secret weapons (yes, even more than Miho's arsenal). Our heroes in the three stories are more than worth the investment, but it's Del Toro's delightfully sleazy cop Jackie Boy who is the MVP. A guy who not only knows how to have fun with a part, but also whose fun is contagious - see The Usual Suspects - he knows exactly what kind of movie he is in. Also, as his fate encapsulates, the violence is extreme, but it manages to be funny and make you admire its beauty as much as it shocks. Take the execution scene, which proves that for some tough bastards, flipping the switch once is not enough. Again, not enough can be said about the look and feel - besides what maybe Nolan is doing, what else has been this daring since - and its fractured, Tarantino-like narrative is a welcome and meaningful touch.

Rodriguez, Tarantino, Miller and company deserve all the praise for their depiction of a world where doing the right thing will most likely get you killed. However, if you don't die, you'll end up feeling like you have fought a war all by yourself. When I’m in the mood for a rewatch, the movies of the mid-2000's are not ones I typically reach for. I doubt I am not alone in thinking they are relatively lean years. Since this was not only better the second time around, but also from this era, seeing it again was an especially sweet surprise. In other words, it's like being pulled over, but being let off with a mere busted taillight warning.

Little Ash

04-12-24, 10:42 AM

I think if you kill that many people, the statute of limitations shouldn't apply, or the window for prosecution should at least get longer for each murder committed.

Though with the complete lack of justice, it seems that Bong Joon-ho got the ending right after all.

I had a "wait, wat?" Moment of response to this. (Mentally, I guess I hadn't processed Phoenix's post).

This might be the American perspective talking, but I'm kind of surprised murder has a statute of limitation at all in Korea. It certainly doesn't in the US. Not that I think the US criminal system is any type of role model to the world, but I would have guessed murder would be a crime that wouldn't have a statute of limitation in most of the world.

But I guess it does in Korea (I haven't tried googling "statute of limitations on murder by country" yet).

https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/killer-memories-of-murder-surprised-never-caught-1234596687/

honeykid

04-12-24, 10:50 AM

I did not expect much from Sin City but I pretty much loved it-my #22

I did expect a lot from Memories of Murder but the comedic elements kept me from loving it.

I was similar. I only saw Sin City because a couple of friends wanted to see it so I saw it too. I have a thing about 'all star casts' in that they're often a bad sign. A bit like the words Starring Samuel L. Jackson when it's a post 2000 film. But I was blown away with how much I enjoyed it. A little less on the subsequent watches (probably because my expectations were so low with that first viewing) but still very entertaining. But for all that, I needed films and Sin City was #13 on my list.

Memories Of Murder was a blind buy and I thought it was fine. OK. A little moody but nothing special... Then a year or so later everyone seemed to be raving about it. I've not seen it again, but maybe I should?

The Conversation I've seen twice but not for decades, but I've never 'got it'. I didn't enjoy it either time.

The Man Who Wasn't There is another of those films I've had for over 20 years and still not seen.

Hey Fredrick

04-12-24, 11:13 AM

A couple more from my ballot.

The movie I have seen more than any other on my ballot is Sin City and I had it at number 6. It's funny, it's violent, the style works for me and the performances are just the right amount of over the top. Marv is one of my favorite film badasses of all time.

Also had Memories of Murder down at number 15. This was a PRHoF rec for me a couple years ago and and absolutely loved it. It grabbed me right from the beginning and never let go.

I had Heat at number 10. It's probably one of my favorite movies to make my ballot but I dinged it a bit for not really being neo-noir, in my opinion. But it's great, it was eligible and so here it is.

Thief

04-12-24, 11:27 AM

14lists143pointsDark City (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/2666-dark-city.html)Director
Alex Proyas, 1998

Starring
Rufus Sewell, William Hurt, Kiefer Sutherland, Jennifer Connelly

Thief

04-12-24, 11:27 AM

11lists146pointsLe Cercle Rouge (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/11657-le-cercle-rouge.html)Director
Jean-Pierre Melville, 1970

Starring
Alain Delon, Bourvil, Gian Maria Volonté, Yves Montand

Thief

04-12-24, 11:27 AM

TRAILERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt9HkO-cGGo

Dark City - An amnesiac man realizes he's wanted for a series of brutal murders. As he tries to prove his innocence, he is led into a nightmarish underworld ruled by a group of beings called the Strangers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECd2NS9dmEo

Le Cercle Rouge - After getting out of prison, a master thief prepares for his next heist by recruiting a notorious escapee and a former policeman, while a police commissioner is determined to stop them.

Thief

04-12-24, 11:28 AM

Seen both, like both quite a bit, but none made my list.

I caught up with Le Cercle Rouge during the recent Neo-noir HoF and enjoyed it a lot. Here's my full review (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2442037-le_cercle_rouge.html) and part of what I wrote:

After that first act, it does take its time to set everything up for the heist. I do feel this part could've been trimmed a bit. There is an effective atmosphere built through the character's interactions, but I think some parts could've been abbreviated. The heist, which has echoes of Rififi all over, does succeed in building up tension as we see our three main characters carry it out in silence for almost half an hour.

I do have some issues here and there, but I still liked it quite a bit, though not enough to make my list.

Dark City is one I wish I could've gotten to but just didn't find the time. I saw it a long time ago and remember liking it a whole lot, but I feel it needed a refresher for me to include it on my list. I do remember having some slight issues with the final confrontation, but overall, it's a film I remember quite fondly. I really don't know why I haven't rewatched it in so many years.

SEEN: 53/78
MY BALLOT: 14/25

1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4.
5.
6.
7. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
8. Following (#84)
9.
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
11. Thief (#29)
12. Bound (#59)
13.
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.

Thief

04-12-24, 11:35 AM

Ha! Another one of those weird pairings; two "City" films back-to-back, both paired with a foreign film :laugh: Maybe it's just me looking for connections :D

Anyway, some list facts:

This is Jean-Pierre Melville's first entry in the countdown, but he already had one come up in the Film Noir Countdown: Bob Le Flambeur at #63.
He's one of only three directors to crossover between countdowns so far. Some of the crossovers have already come up, others haven't come up yet. Can you find out who else has crossed over?

Tugg

04-12-24, 11:35 AM

My #8 Dark City (1998).

Allaby

04-12-24, 11:41 AM

Seen both. I thought Le Cercle Rouge was just alright. I enjoyed Dark City, but it didn't make my ballot.

Seen: 65/78

Miss Vicky

04-12-24, 11:43 AM

I've never loved Dark City and I generally am put off by heavy Sci-Fi, but I do think it's a solid film and I have a lot of respect for it. Enough that I put it at #21 on my ballot.

Here's what I wrote about it when I rewatched it for a HOF:

Dark City (Alex Proyas, 1998)
Imdb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118929/?ref_=nv_sr_1)

Date Watched:01/28/2020
Cinema or Home: Home
Reason For Watching: 21st MoFo Hall of Fame, nominated by wyldesyde19
Rewatch: Yes

I generally don't care for heavy Sci-Fi and I struggle with suspension of disbelief, so a film about a dying alien race that holds a group of humans captive and modifies their memories for experimental purposes is pretty well out of my comfort zone. Fortunately Dark City features a strong cast, an intriguing premise, loads of atmosphere, and a short enough run-time to keep me from losing interest. But only just.

One of the biggest problems with Sci-Fi films is that they often rely heavily on special effects and, more often than not, those effects don't age very well. I think this is true, at least in part, of this more than twenty year old film. In particular, the final battle between Murdoch and the stranger just looks downright silly and took me out of the film.

The other thing I struggled with is the underdevelopment of its peripheral characters. I understand that this is necessary given the premise, but I generally find it much easier to engage with a film when I'm invested in the people in it. It's a rare occasion when a movie can keep me totally enthralled with only story and imagery and, though it does offer a decent amount of development for Murdoch's character at least, Dark City is not one of those exceptions.

That said, I've seen this movie on a number of occasions, including during its original theatrical release and have always liked it. I last watched it in 2016 in preparation for the MoFo Sci-Fi Countdown and I rated it a 3.5+ at that time. I liked it a little less this time around but I still think it's pretty solid.

3.5-

I've seen Le Cercle Rouge, but aside from the eye candy that is Alain Delon, I didn't like it.

My Ballot:
1. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
2. You Were Never Really Here (#50)
3. The Man From Nowhere (#87)
4. The Departed (#53)
5. The Big Lebowski (#38)
7. True Romance (#60)
8. Zodiac (#30)
12. Shutter Island (#86)
13. The Nice Guys (#39)
14. Inherent Vice (#41)
15. Gone Girl (#34)
16. Pulp Fiction (#37)
17. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Dark City (#24)

Holden Pike

04-12-24, 11:52 AM

98485

Le Cercle Rouge was #60 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1970s. Dark City was #90 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1990s, #69 on the original MoFo Top 100 in 2010, and #48 on the MoFo Top 100 Science Fiction Films.

Harry Lime

04-12-24, 11:54 AM

I was kind of annoyed after the fact that I decided to keep Dark City off my ballot. I mean I had two Melville films on there surely I would have been okay with jut one to spread my votes around a bit. It's a unique film that belongs on the countdown and I'm glad it's here. As for the Melville I had Le Cercle Rouge at #24. Expertly directed (that heist eh) with style so cool, not so much slow but deliberate paced with a great performance from Alain Delon.

4. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (1976)
10. Alphaville (1965)
13. The Conversation (1974)
14. Zodiac (2007)
15. Memories of Murder (2003)
17. Fireworks (1997)
18. Pale Flower (1964)
19. The Grifters (1990)
20. Inherent Vice (2014)
22. The American Friend (1977)
24. Le Cercle Rouge (1970)
25. Série noire (1979) - One pointer

Thief

04-12-24, 12:03 PM

More questions for you to ponder. Le Cercle Rouge is the fifth film from our recent Neo-noir Hall of Fame (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=2431157#post2431157) to make it.

#23. Le Cercle Rouge
#26. Sin City
#88. Red Rock West
#89. La Haine
#95. Shallow Grave

The other three are: Body Heat, Nightcrawler, and Tightrope. Do you think any of these three will make it?

Holden Pike

04-12-24, 12:05 PM

Body Heat and Nightcrawler, yes. Tightrope, no.

seanc

04-12-24, 01:00 PM

Le Cercle is one of my favorite movies of all time by one of my favorite directors. I picked a different movie by the director that feels more Noir inspired. I think it’s got a chance at the top ten. I doubt anyone can crack the code on which movie I am talking about.

Only watched Dark City once. I enjoyed it but need to see it again.

Little Ash

04-12-24, 01:14 PM

I saw Dark City once in college on VHS not that long after it was released. I kind of hated it. I learned later this was an edited for mass consumption version that gives a voice over at the beginning, explaining the entire situation and that the theatrical version just leaves it as a weird mystery for most of the film. I do wonder sometimes if that voice over hadn't been there if it would have radically altered my opinion of the movie. Probably not enough to love, but maybe. It really does deflate the movie when you get exaggerated-speech voice over explaining everything from the get-go.

Le Cercle Rouge was on my ballot. #15
I only caught up with Rififi this year, but the comparison seems apt. I think Melville did the stoic, hyper-competent, fatalistic crime movies in a way that appeals to me. I'm not sure how to describe it other than that.

Thief

04-12-24, 01:20 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... DARK CITY

https://mutantreviewers.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/dark-city.jpg
RT – 76%, IMDb – 7.6

Roger Ebert said:

"Dark City by Alex Proyas is a great visionary achievement, a film so original and exciting, it stirred my imagination like Metropolis and 2001: A Space Odyssey. If it is true, as the German director Werner Herzog believes, that we live in an age starved of new images, then Dark City is a film to nourish us. Not a story so much as an experience, it is a triumph of art direction, set design, cinematography, special effects--and imagination." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/dark-city-1998))

Robin L. Murray & Joseph K. Heumann, from Eastern Illinois University, said:

"This noir setting is meticulously staged, from the interior and exterior mise-en-scène with its low-key lighting and stereotypical noir figures like the detective, the femme fatale and the hero/victim to the low angle, deep focus camera shots so prevalent in film noir since Citizen Kane. All these noir elements of the mise-en-scène are contrasted with the Strangers themselves and their habitat – shot, lit and staged in horror style [...] complicating views of constructed versus natural space, as well as genre." (read full review here (https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/scope/documents/2006/february-2006/murray-heumann.pdf))

TheUsualSuspect said:

"The thing that amazed me the most would be the cross between the 1950 to 1980's, it was brilliant, the set pieces were perfect for this film. Everytime I saw the buildings changing, I was in amazement. Everyone that took part in this film should be praised, this is a film that should get more attention from the general public, but is overshadowed by films that like to put more action then story in it's plot." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/279844-dark_city.html))

Thief

04-12-24, 01:20 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... LE CERCLE ROUGE

https://i.imgur.com/QPgZqyw.png
RT – 96%, IMDb – 7.9

Roger Ebert said:

"[Melville]'s movie involves an escaped prisoner, a diamond heist, a police manhunt and mob vengeance, but it treats these elements as the magician treats his cards; the cards are insignificant, except as the medium through which he demonstrates his skills." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/le-cercle-rouge-2003))

MUBI said:

"An existentialist noir painted with the cold hues of grey, blue and green where the only warm touch is the red of blood, of death. Dialogues are reduced to a minimum as Melville displays his iconographic mastery throughout having condensed noir into an immanent palette where images are more expressive words." (read full review here (https://artscenter.duke.edu/event/screen-society-le-cercle-rouge-jean-pierre-melville-1970-french-film-series/))

Captain Spaulding said:

"The performances, the cinematography, the shot composition, the editing, the minimal use of dialogue--- everything about this movie feels like the work of a consummate artist. Le Cercle Rouge oozes coolness from every pore of its celluloid being. It is my first encounter with Melville. I guarantee that it won't be my last." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1096329-le_cercle_rouge.html))

Citizen Rules

04-12-24, 01:55 PM

Dark City was my #24. My review from the 21st HoF

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=60115
Dark City (1998)

I love that image and that's what I appreciate most about Dark City, it's atmospheric look. The sets and the lighting are very film noir...and noir and sci-fi are two of my favorite genres. The movie delves into deep world building with a score that accentuates the moody atmosphere. The street scenes smell of urban night in an crowded dingy city...just like a good noir film does. And the interior shots of the sets are done up nicely with attention to detail. Dark City is certainly one of the most stylish looking films around.

Why didn't Rufus Sewell have a bigger career? I thought he was excellent in this and he reminded me of Joaquin Phoenix. Not only did he look a bit like Phoenix but his facial actions and style of acting was very similar. I wish we could have had more story line on Jennifer Connelly's character. I was intrigued by her life as a lounge singer but other than two short clips of her singing, we really didn't get to spend time with her in the club. But she sure was a knockout in that green dress and that noir Veronica Lake hair style.

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=28346&stc=1&d=1483667990
Jennifer Connelly, doesn't get to do much, but she does sport a Veronica Lake hairdo.

I know people don't like Kiefer Sutherland vocal gaspings, but I told myself before watching the film that it's a colorful character that matches the film's intentions. And yet I gotta be truthful, every time he was on the screen he took me right out of the picture. Though he would have been a shoe-in for Dick Tracy (1990).

The aliens had an evil-sci-fi-noir vibe to them, so kudos to the make-up department as they looked great. But I have to say that ultimately we see too many aliens and way too often...so that for me they cease being effective and became almost comical. Especially the little kid alien reminded me of something Spielberg might have done in one of his films.

But the biggest reason why I've never loved this film is that the script doesn't engage me. I can think of other movies that I've seen and their scenes leave an indelible impression on my mind. None of the scenes were emotionally fulfilling for me. Most of the scenes just kind of run together in my mind.

SpelingError

04-12-24, 02:03 PM

Dark City is pretty good and I'm also of the mind that it's a better film than The Matrix but it didn't make my ballot.

Le Cercle Rouge was #10 on my ballot. It's the kind of film which maintains a slow burning level of suspense from beginning to end and always gives the sense that it's about to erupt into violence. I also consider the wordless jewelry heist in it to be better than the one in Rififi. I only like one Melville film more than it.

SpelingError

04-12-24, 02:04 PM

Thursday Next

04-12-24, 02:26 PM

I didn't love Dark City when I saw it, but probably ought to give it another chance.

Le Cercle Rouge was my #8. Melville, Delon, silent jewellery heist, what's not to like?

Thursday Next

04-12-24, 02:34 PM

Why didn't Rufus Sewell have a bigger career? I thought he was excellent in this

I really like Rufus Sewell. From playing leads in the 90s he seemed to get cast as villains a lot in the 2000s, then in a lot of poorly rated films before making a bit of a TV comeback with Victoria. Most recently seen as Prince Andrew in the Netflix dramatisation of his disastrous interview.

Citizen Rules

04-12-24, 02:39 PM

Have you seen Le Cercle Rouge as well? Being the Le Samourai fan which I believe you are, I think you'd really enjoy that film as well.I thought I had seen it, but I searched MoFo and I couldn't find a post where I talked about watching it. One of these days.

I really like Rufus Sewell. From playing leads in the 90s he seemed to get cast as villains a lot in the 2000s, then in a lot of poorly rated films before making a bit of a TV comeback with Victoria. Most recently seen as Prince Andrew in the Netflix dramatisation of his disastrous interview.I did see him in something the other day, Judy (2019). At first I didn't even recognize him but then I spotted him by his mannerisms.

CosmicRunaway

04-12-24, 03:23 PM

That's another film from my list to make the Countdown! I had Dark City pretty high at #7. I was sort of mixed on the film when I first saw it, but I revisited it later (once I had forgotten most of the details), and liked it a lot more. Love the visual style and the atmosphere, and the film's blend of sci-fi and noir. I'd actually prefer a version that has the theatrical cut's opening - just without the spoiler-laden monologue, that then switches to the director's version afterwards, but it seems like I'll have to edit it myself if I want to see it that way haha.

Seen: 40/78

My List: 11
02. Blade Runner 2049 (2017) - #44
03. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005) - #42
05. Blue Ruin (2013) - #82
06. Mother (2009) - #67
07. Dark City (1998) - #24
08. Strange Days (1995) - #65
10. The Man from Nowhere (2010) - #87
14. Angel Heart (1987) - #31
15. Infernal Affairs (2002) - #91
17. Memories of Murder (2003) - #25
21. Oldboy (2003) - #52
25. The Chaser (2008) - DNP 1-pointer

https://64.media.tumblr.com/3a592c462551bcfbc2f93b8003141dab/a56e07746c7d62f5-8d/s540x810/d28698fb24767d2ca287548f3279a4c7b20e4890.gifv

WHITBISSELL!

04-12-24, 03:51 PM

1 for 2. I've liked the four Alex Proyas' films I've seen for the most part, even Knowing. I, Robot being the exception (but that's more a Will Smith problem). The Crow still holds up remarkably well as far as I'm concerned. Haven't seen Gods of Egypt (no plans to). Dark City preceded The Matrix by a year so it was a revelation to me.

Haven't seen Le Cercle Rouge. The Neo-Noir Hall of Fame thread was the first time I'd ever heard of it.

52 of 77 seen so far.

Thief

04-12-24, 03:54 PM

I really like Rufus Sewell. From playing leads in the 90s he seemed to get cast as villains a lot in the 2000s, then in a lot of poorly rated films before making a bit of a TV comeback with Victoria. Most recently seen as Prince Andrew in the Netflix dramatisation of his disastrous interview.

He played a pretty good villain in that TV show, The Man in the High Castle. Not enough to hold my interest cause I gave up in Season 1, but still

mrblond

04-12-24, 05:28 PM

#23. Le Cercle Rouge (1970) is my #9.

When I watched this movie for the first time, many years ago, I was a bit confused seeing the great Bourvil casted in a crime movie of this type. He was a huge comedy star in Europe that's why it was quite unnatural for me at first. Anyway, he did his job very well.
Another annoying thing was the moustaches they put on Delon's face. Probably an attempt to reduce his usual physical appearance on the screen.

4.5
90/100
98496
-----

My Ballot
▽
1. Angel Heart (1987) [#31]
...
4. The Driver (1978) [#79]
5.
6. Red Rock West (1993) [#88]
7. The Hot Spot (1990) [#85]
8. Shallow Grave (1994) [#95]
9. Le Cercle Rouge (1970) [#23]
10. The Man Who Wasn't There (2001) [#27]
...
14. Purple Noon (1960) [#94]
15.
16. Thelma & Louise (1991) [#56]
...
19. Dog Day Afternoon (1975) [#36]
20.
21. Mona Lisa (1986) [#78]
...
24. Pulp Fiction (1994) [#37]
25.

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/h5v3wjJQNB7q2RntEnKDLhKtTFE.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/bd175Fmt3Web3j0qXahSKmdZPOe.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/wI6CalCMdSKXgx10gzfHY3vwyzf.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/iQCP69183K1QZo8bb23nkcLap3W.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/5t0mGiFlj5GBrZ7ggvvkMdFJ7fV.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/3X1EqovVKNpHoYHAhPznWDwQmqB.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/5ecDOWpNoYJfrQ4Epxx8vYXKUcQ.jpg

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/7n1KNXs4OFfeVLjJ3g10M8oK1fM.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/cQaqpwN5Nq0GNNKE1hIgYLpLlca.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/mavrhr0ig2aCRR8d48yaxtD5aMQ.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/8VuPD8ZKAqxT6F1HaH9sFFURmsi.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/d5iIlFn5s0ImszYzBPb8JPIfbXD.jpg

-----

Others in my radar:
▽
The Ninth Gate (1999) [one-pointers]
The Talented Mr. Ripley (1999) [#96]
True Romance (1993) [#60]
Thief (1981) [#29]
The Conversation (1974) [#28]
Sin City (2005) [#26]

stillmellow

04-12-24, 06:10 PM

Dark City is my one pointer at #25! I'm actually surprised it ranked this highly. I really liked it, but it's certainly out of the ordinary as neo noirs go.

I love strange movies that make you think, assess the nature of free will, and even delve a bit into religion.

It's only glaring flaw is an ending that's far too bright and fluffy, but I forgive it.

cricket

04-12-24, 06:15 PM

Seen The Red Circle twice-good flick

Seen Dark City once and didn't care for it, would try it again

beelzebubble

04-12-24, 06:25 PM

I haven't seen either of these, which surprises me because I love both William Hurt and Yves Montand.

Sedai

04-12-24, 07:27 PM

Blimey, I just realized I left Dark City off my ballot, and it never even crossed my mind as I compiled my list. Definitely a mistake, as I adore it. To anyone that hasn't seen it: make sure you watch the director's cut, as it is a much better film than the theatrical.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZTgyMjVkZWMtMmVjYi00MmNmLWFmYjAtYzQwMzJkMjEzMDMxXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNzExMzc0MDg@._V1_.jpg

I am sure this will surprise at least a couple people. seeing as how I have had a Sin City avatar for as long as I can remember, it did not make my list. I am one of those people who think it is good, but not great. A little too stylized for my taste, even though I own and enjoy the original Frank Miller run. Perhaps if I re-watched it again, I might grow to like it more, but I never have the urge to watch it, and I think that says something.

Memories of Murder was on my list at #17. A fantastic slow burn with an excellent cast whose characters become more and more desperate to solve a befuddling crime without much success. In part an indictment of the legal system and law enforcement organizations of the era, it also plays with different tones at times so things don't get too bleak. This film doesn't work for some people, but I revisit it from time to time, and I am always satisfied when I do. Several memorable scenes stick in my mind, and will pop into my head randomly from time to time. Great stuff.

https://www.filmfest-muenchen.de/Pictures/Filme/107/6242/memories_of_murder-online3.jpg?width=1280

I've not seen Le Circe Rouge. I was given a copy of the film at one point, but I couldn't get the disc to work.

Thief

04-12-24, 09:45 PM

AWARDS?

https://rlterryreelview.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/darkcity7.jpg

Le Cercle Rouge didn't win any awards or nominations, but Dark City received a couple. These are some of the most notable:

Nine (9) OFTA Film Award nominations, including a win for Best Sci-Fi/Fantasy/Horror Picture
Seven (7) Saturn Award nominations, including a win for Best Science Fiction Film
Five (5) Fangoria Chainsaw Award nominations, including a win for Best Screenplay
One (1) National Board of Review Special Recognition for excellence in filmmaking

Thief

04-12-24, 09:48 PM

Anyone wanna guess?

Anyway, some list facts:

This is Jean-Pierre Melville's first entry in the countdown, but he already had one come up in the Film Noir Countdown: Bob Le Flambeur at #63.
He's one of only three directors to crossover between countdowns so far. Some of the crossovers have already come up, others haven't come up yet. Can you find out who else has crossed over?

PHOENIX74

04-13-24, 12:03 AM

Oh, what a disaster for my ballot this specific countdown has been!

24. Dark City - I remember seeing this at the movies, and I had a pretty good time. I was excited to see Jennifer Connelly's career continuing strong with her getting good roles. Just a few years later she'd snag one in Requiem for a Dream, which was a huge step forward, and then it was Oscar time for her the year after when she was in A Beautiful Mind. I was also psyched to be watching Richard O'Brien on the big screen - a real rarity. The movie itself is a cool freaky sci-fi take on the whole noir formula. I bow down to the fact that this is actually a very clear neo noir film and as such belongs here more than some of my ballot choices and other dubious choices we've all made together.

23. Le Cercle Rouge - This is a great film. I'm not sure why I didn't include it on my ballot, but first and foremost in my mind was probably the fact that I'd only just seen it before putting my ballot together and I felt I'd need more time and another viewing to be sure of where it would fit in. Jean-Pierre Melville is great, and I also love Alain Delon. At the time of seeing it I said "...it's a moody, great looking film which pulls you into the world it's characters seem destined to inhabit without question, just as they seem destined to meet each other and share their ultimate fate." A very slow paced, deliberate film which lingers on every detail. The ending is red hot. Very much deserves a place on this list.

Seen : 53/78

stillmellow

04-13-24, 12:48 AM

PHOENIX74

04-13-24, 01:02 AM

If you're a person of a certain age, where you saw Labyrinth when you were young, and are attracted to women, then your life has been one long continuous crush on Jennifer Connelly. 😊

https://media1.giphy.com/media/hXDrTueJWAscK3xWQ2/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952bnwu5df1wl6f3uxtyvy75g02ifijhj5mmsko9l9p&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g

CosmicRunaway

04-13-24, 05:20 AM

If you're a person of a certain age, where you saw Labyrinth when you were young, and are attracted to women, then your life has been one long continuous crush on Jennifer Connelly. 😊
I think both Connelly and Bowie left impressions on a lot of people's minds when they saw the film.

stillmellow

04-13-24, 05:23 AM

I think both Connelly and Bowie left impressions on a lot of people's minds when they saw the film.

Hundred percent.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/fa/52/b2fa5239f7d9eca802f5205a032e10b4.gif

Thursday Next

04-13-24, 05:36 AM

He's one of only three directors to crossover between countdowns so far. Some of the crossovers have already come up, others haven't come up yet. Can you find out who else has crossed over?

Robert Rossen is one.

Iroquois

04-13-24, 11:36 AM

no votes. dark city is a good film but i haven't seen it in ages. le cercle rouge i've seen more recently and also think it's very good.

Yoda

04-13-24, 11:42 AM

One of the first things I think about when I think about Dark City is Ebert's famous glowing review of the film. I thought this review was an immense credit to the film for awhile...until I read his similarly glowing review of Knowing (another Proyas) film, an interesting effort that was asking some pretty pedestrian philosophical questions, which nevertheless amazed Ebert. So I decided for all his many strengths as a reviewer, he was just really lacking in that department and therefore easily impressed by such things.

I still think Dark City is very good, though. It was 20th on my ballot.

Thief

04-13-24, 12:28 PM

12lists152pointsBody Heat (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/14412-body-heat.html)Director
Lawrence Kasdan, 1981

Starring
William Hurt, Kathleen Turner, Richard Crenna, Ted Danson

Thief

04-13-24, 12:28 PM

14lists155pointsNightcrawler (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/242582-nightcrawler.html)Director
Dan Gilroy, 2014

Starring
Jake Gyllenhaal, Riz Ahmed, Rene Russo, Bill Paxton

Thief

04-13-24, 12:29 PM

TRAILERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz-Pf9_SKeI

Body Heat - During an extreme heatwave, an inept lawyer begins a passionate affair with a beautiful Florida woman. When they hatch a plan to murder her rich husband, things don't go as planned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8kYDQan8bw

Nightcrawler - A Los Angeles con man desperate for work becomes obsessed with the world of crime journalism and tries to make a career of it at any cost.

Miss Vicky

04-13-24, 12:38 PM

I have a whole lot of respect for Nightcrawler. It's a really well made film and one I couldn't look away from, even though I kind of really wanted to. Its story and its characters are intriguing but repulsive - enough so that I'll probably never watch it again. And that repulsion is what kept it off my 2010s ballot and relegated it to only #22 on my ballot here.

Here's what I wrote about it when I watched it in preparation for the 2010s Countdown:
https://www.angelfire.com/music6/walteregan/2010s/nightcrawler.gif

Nightcrawler (Dan Gilroy, 2014)
(Recommended by cricket)

In attempting to review this, I have a bit of a dilemma: Do I rate it highly, because it's incredibly well-crafted, or do I give it a more neutral rating because I don't think I ever want to watch it again?

Nightcrawler is incredibly well-crafted - and also aptly titled. It's crawling with soulless, slimy people in settings that are equally disgusting. Jake Gyllenhaal's Louis Bloom is equal parts intriguing and revolting as a freelance crime journalist who views his work more like a movie production and will go to terrible extremes to create the perfect shot.

And with all this spectacle of greed, carnage, and misery, I couldn't look away but I also felt somehow unclean for having watched it. It's an amazing film, but also one that is just, well, kind of icky and my lack of desire to see it again means it's unlikely to make my ballot.

3.5

I haven't seen Body Heat.

My Ballot:
1. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
2. You Were Never Really Here (#50)
3. The Man From Nowhere (#87)
4. The Departed (#53)
5. The Big Lebowski (#38)
7. True Romance (#60)
8. Zodiac (#30)
12. Shutter Island (#86)
13. The Nice Guys (#39)
14. Inherent Vice (#41)
15. Gone Girl (#34)
16. Pulp Fiction (#37)
17. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Dark City (#24)
22. Nightcrawler (#21)

Iroquois

04-13-24, 12:43 PM

no votes. good movies.

Harry Lime

04-13-24, 01:07 PM

Both are good films. I don't for either but they certainly earn their spots here on this list.

seanc

04-13-24, 01:17 PM

I like Nightcrawler better every time I see it. I put it at 13.

Wooley

04-13-24, 01:39 PM

I am with CitizenRules on Angel Heart. Though I might be more extreme.
I saw this movie when I was a teenager, when I was a huge Mickey Rourke fan, and I was from New Orleans. And I still just thought this movie was a dud. A stupid dud.
When DeNirois introduced at "Louis Cyphre", I think I actually spit out my Coca-Cola laughing. I was like, "Oh come on! That guy's name is Angel and this guy's name is Lou Cyphre?! I'm fifteen years old and I can write better than this!" I still can only look straight ahead these days because I rolled my eyes so hard I tore all the tendons. And DeNiro was just so out-of-place and ridiculous in this.
So I guess nodding to CR is ultimately just about how much I think it tanks in the second half. Obviously if you don't know how the plot's gonna go by at most the halfway point, you just haven't been watching the movie so then you gotta drag yourself through the second half which just doesn't really deliver.
Ugh.
Sorry to be a downer I've just always kinda hated that movie. I re-watched it maybe a decade ago thinking maybe my teenage and then college-age self had been too hard on it but I hated it exactly the same amount.

WHITBISSELL!

04-13-24, 01:43 PM

1 for 2 and neither made my list.

Haven't seen Body Heat. Never felt the urge to do so and still don't.

I liked Nightcrawler well enough. I do think it requires a re-watch at some point though. It's certainly not a feel good flick but Gyllenhaal's performance is so freaking nuanced and intricate. There's no way you get the full gist of it in a single viewing.

53 of 80 seen so far. I'm up to 10 of my picks accounted for with 20 reveals to go.

WHITBISSELL!

04-13-24, 01:54 PM

1. The French Connection (#58)
2. You Were Never Really Here (#50)
3. Get Carter (#49)
4. In the Heat of the Night (#98)
5. Blast of Silence (#48)
6.
7.
8.
9. Thief (#29)
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17. Dark City (#24)
18. One False Move (#73)
19.
20.
21.
22.
23.
24. Point Blank (#72)
25. Collateral (#33)

Allaby

04-13-24, 02:03 PM

Nightcrawler is fantastic and crawled its way on to my ballot at #22. Body Heat is good, but didn't make my ballot.

Seen: 67/80

Thief

04-13-24, 02:32 PM

Seen both, loved both, had both on my ballot.

Nightcrawler is one that stuck with me ever since I saw it back in the day, so it was nice to revisit it for the recent Neo-noir HoF. Here's my full review (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2440553-nightcrawler.html) and a bit of what I wrote back then:

It is Gyllenhaal's creepy and unsettling performance what ultimately defines this film. His Bloom is equal parts awkward, pathetic, unethical, savvy, and extremely clever. The way he navigates social circles reciting rehearsed monologues and factoids that he learned from the Internet shows a unique desire for acceptance; something that he gets through this job.

It's an extremely unsettling film, not for what it shows, but for what it implies about human nature, and I love it for that. I had it at #6.

As for Body Heat, that was one that I've had on my watchlist for a very long time, so it was great to finally catch up with it for that same Neo-noir HoF. Very hot and sleazy, in more ways than one, here's my full review (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2441984-body-heat.html) and a bit of what I wrote back then:

This is one of those frequent mentions when the topic of 80s films come up that I hadn't seen, but what a pleasant watch it was. First, the atmosphere is so well transmitted that you can feel the humidity and the heat through the screen. But most of that falls also on Hurt and Turner's steamy and effective performances. Not only do they have an undeniable sexual chemistry, but they are pretty darn good in their roles.

It barely snuck into my list. Had it at #23.

SEEN: 55/80
MY BALLOT: 16/25

1.
2. The Grifters (#45)
3.
4.
5.
6. Nightcrawler (#21)
7. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
8. Following (#84)
9.
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (#35)
11. Thief (#29)
12. Bound (#59)
13.
14. The Naked Kiss (#51)
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19. A Simple Plan (#46)
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (#42)
22. Mother (#67)
23. Body Heat (#22)
24. To Live and Die in L.A. (#43)
25.

Holden Pike

04-13-24, 03:36 PM

98502

Nightcrawler was #55 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 2010s.

cricket

04-13-24, 03:42 PM

Been a fan of Body Heat for a very long time, an automatic top 10 choice for me.

I considered Nightcrawler and it probably would've made it had I seen it more than once.

1. Killer Joe (#66)
3. Gone Baby Gone (#64)
4. The Player (#47)
7. Body Heat (#22)
9. Mona Lisa (#78)
11. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (#62)
12. Body Double (#69)
15. The Driver (#79)
17. Night Moves (#40)
21. Manhunter (#77)
22. Sin City (#26)
24. Bound (#59)

Tugg

04-13-24, 03:43 PM

My #21 Nightcrawler (2014) .

Kaplan

04-13-24, 04:35 PM

Nightcrawler was my #9.

My List:
4. Memories of Murder (#25)
5. True Romance (#60)
9. Nightcrawler (#21)
11. The Friends of Eddie Coyle (#100)
12. Branded to Kill (#71)
13. The Man Who Wasn't There (#27)
14. Blast of Silence (#48)
16. Sin City (#26)
18. Following (#84)
21. Mother (#67)
22. Purple Noon (#94)

CosmicRunaway

04-13-24, 04:55 PM

I've seen both of today's films. I rewatched Body Heat for the Countdown, but didn't bother with Nightcrawler even though I've been meaning to revisit it for awhile. Of the two, Nightcrawler actually made my list however, while Body Heat didn't.

I wasn't super impressed with Nightcrawler when I saw it, but I think that was because I'd heard tons of high praise for it, and expectations were set a little high. I did still appreciate what the film does well though, and I respected it enough to vote for it. I had it at #23.

Seen: 42/80

My List: 12
02. Blade Runner 2049 (2017) - #44
03. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005) - #42
05. Blue Ruin (2013) - #82
06. Mother (2009) - #67
07. Dark City (1998) - #24
08. Strange Days (1995) - #65
10. The Man from Nowhere (2010) - #87
14. Angel Heart (1987) - #31
15. Infernal Affairs (2002) - #91
17. Memories of Murder (2003) - #25
21. Oldboy (2003) - #52
23. Nightcrawler (2014) - #21
25. The Chaser (2008) - DNP 1-pointer

https://i.gifer.com/6vWt.gif

stillmellow

04-13-24, 05:17 PM

The protagonist in Nightcrawler was a bit too gross and seedy for me, even for a noir. It's an extremely well made movie, but it wasn't for me.

I haven't seen Body Heat.

Thief

04-13-24, 05:20 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... BODY HEAT

https://i.imgur.com/dRb3N01.jpg
RT – 96%, IMDb – 7.4

Roger Ebert said:

"In Body Heat, Kasdan's original screenplay surrounds the characters with good, well-written performances in supporting roles; he creates a real world of police stations, diners, law offices and restaurants, away from which Matty has seduced Ned into her own twisted scenario." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-body-heat-1981))

John Townsend, from Starburst, said:

"Body Heat helped usher in a resurgence of interest in film noir. Laden with genre homages, including John Barry’s atmospheric score, sizzling on-screen chemistry between William Hurt and Kathleen Turner hotter than the heatwave that provides a heady backdrop, and with barely hidden plot twists, it is a film that compares favourably with classic noirs such as Double Indemnity." (read full review here (https://www.starburstmagazine.com/reviews/body-heat-1981/))

PHOENIX74 said:

"There's a great deal here to suggest Body Heat is a great film - it's alluring, and now that it's over 40 years old it's become classic noir of it's own kind in a sense. It has itself inspired films (such as the Coen Bros Blood Simple) that pay tribute to it in turn, much as it's doing. It's sweaty, sexy, sultry and wonderfully dark and murderous." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2438758-body-heat.html))

Thief

04-13-24, 05:20 PM

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... NIGHTCRAWLER

https://i.imgur.com/8Lb3l6x.jpg
RT – 95%, IMDb – 7.8

Matt Zoller Seitz, from RogerEbert.com, said:

"That tabloid journalism rewards the shameless doesn't count as a breaking news flash, but Nightcrawler is not interested in stoking our outrage over what we already know. It's using TV news as a means to an end—to show how a man who presents as 'normal', even 'likable' and 'motivated' and 'capable', can be evil, and seduce us into being evil, too." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/nightcrawler-2014))

Kate Hagen, from The Black List Blog, said:

"What’s probably the most strikingly noir component of Nightcrawler is the strong usage of nighttime, shadows, and darkness throughout the piece. Often, it feels like Gyllenhaal’s character is driving his car wildly into the black, like he’s closing his eyes and letting the darkness take the wheel. Wherever that darkness spits him out, he’s there in the realest sense of the term, willing to dive into whatever shadowy, largely-hidden pocket of Los Angeles he crawls into the light long enough to see — and film." (read full review here (https://blog.blcklst.com/essential-noir-films-mike-epifani-on-nightcrawler-a6b56e342a64))

Evan_Wheatley said:

"Gyllenhaal’s performance is enthralling. Despite the disturbing and sociopathic nature of his role, his character intrigues you. Bloom is passionate. Bloom is driven. Bloom is wickedly smart. He has an eerie charisma about him that seeps under your skin." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1599501-nightcrawler.html))

SpelingError

04-13-24, 05:45 PM

Both are very good films, but neither made my ballot. Glad they both made the countdown though.

Thursday Next

04-13-24, 05:51 PM

Body Heat was my #11. Pleased to see it so high.

Thief

04-13-24, 07:27 PM

AWARDS?

https://www.starburstmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/body-heat.jpg

Body Heat received several nominations. These are some of the most notable:

One (1) BAFTA Film Award nomination for Most Outstanding Newcomer (Kathleen Turner)
One (1) Edgar Allan Poe Award nomination for Best Motion Picture
One (1) Golden Globe Award nomination for New Star of the Year (Turner)
One (1) Writers Guild of America Award for Best Drama Written for the Screen (Lawrence Kasdan)

Thief

04-13-24, 07:27 PM

AWARDS?

https://rosspetersonsatomicavocadoluncheon.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/nc-2.jpg

Nightcrawler received many awards and nominations. These are some of the most notable:

Four (4) BAFTA Film Award nominations, including Best Actor (Jake Gyllenhaal)
Three (3) Saturn Award nominations, including a win for Best Supporting Actress (Rene Russo)
Two (2) Satellite Award nominations, including a win for Best Original Screenplay (Dan Gilroy)
One (1) Academy Award nomination for Best Original Screenplay (Gilroy)
One (1) Golden Globe Award nomination for Best Actor (Gyllenhaal)

Thief

04-13-24, 07:39 PM

Stats: Pit Stop #8
https://itpworld.online/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/cerclerouge1.jpg

-

After hitting our eight pit stop (80), here's were we are now:

Decade Breakdown

1960s = 11
1970s = 12
1980s = 8
1990s = 23
2000s = 14
2010s = 12
2020s = 0

A very strong showing from the 2000s in this batch, with 4 entries. The 90s only had one entry, but they're too far ahead. 1970s and 1980s got 2 in this batch.

Recurring Directors

Michael Mann = 4
William Friedkin = 3
David Fincher = 3
Bong Joon-ho = 2
Coen Brothers = 2
Shane Black = 2
Martin Scorsese = 2
Christopher Nolan = 2

Michael Mann had a party with this batch and ends up with 4 entries in the countdown so far. Fincher also added a couple, while Bong Joon-ho and the Coens join the group.

crumbsroom

04-13-24, 08:09 PM

Body Heat and Nightcrawler are both movies that are very good, but don't need to be in my particularly canon.

Sometimes it's an elusive thing trying to figure out why some movies speak so strongly to me, and others, while obviously just as good, I just enjoy and appreciate but never think about again.

GulfportDoc

04-13-24, 09:00 PM

Body Heat (1981)

Likely in sequence the second great neo-noir of the later 20th Century following Chinatown (1975), it was both written and directed by Lawrence Kasdan (Star Wars films, Raiders of the Lost Ark). The first rate cinematography was handled by Richard H. Kline (The Boston Strangler, Soylent Green).

In a small Florida town William Hurt plays a second-rate attorney, Ned Racine, who commences an affair with Matty Walker (Kathleen Turner), the wife of wealthy tycoon Edmond Walker (Richard Crenna). Matty wants a divorce, but because of a pre-nuptial agreement, the only way she can acquire her husband’s fortune is if he is killed. She and Ned hatch a plan to murder Edmond in such a way as to show that it was an accident. Ned gets assistance from an explosives expert (Mickey Rourke) to make it look like Edmond was accidentally blown up in his factory following his surreptitious murder by Ned.

Matty decides to forge a new will making her sole beneficiary of the estate, cutting out anyone else in the family. Ned knew that the new document could be discovered as a forgery, which might expose them both. Several of Ned’s colleagues and the police start to suspect his involvement. What follows are several twists, double dealings, switched identities, and faked deaths which all lead to an atypical classic noir ending.

Right from the start the classical noir chiaroscuro lighting is effectively replaced by the portrayal of the sultry oppressive heat and mood of a small southern town in the humidity of the summer. Much of the action takes place at night or indoors so the shading of a mystery is enhanced. Ironically most of the film was shot during a cold winter spell, so efforts by the makeup and props crews had to work to imitate the sweaty summer environment.

Their are two common important differences in the depiction of classic noir to neo-noir. One is the typical absence of the femme fatale in neo-noir; the other is the addition of more explicit sex, made newly possible by the loss of censorship that had been present in the classic era. But in Body Heat there is a nasty scheming femme fatale, and there is also plenty of steamy sex. Screenwriter Kasdan has certainly channeled James N. Cain (Double Indemnity, The Postman Always Rings Twice). Absent the use of color film and the portrayal of sexual intimacy, the film could have been made in 1950.

Kathleen Turner exploded into recognition in this her debut film, and both she and Mickey Rourke are put solidly on the map. It is a landmark film that serves as one of the finest examples of neo-noir.

This great picture was at #2 on my list.

Thief

04-14-24, 12:01 AM

Any predictions for the Top 20? rauldc14? Holden Pike?

PHOENIX74

04-14-24, 01:06 AM

22. Body Heat - Another puzzling omission from me, I suspect because I finally saw this film only recently. It is a great neo noir classic - Kathleen Turner is amazing, and I can feel the body heat that's referred to in this film's title. When I think of it I think of naked sweaty skin - sometimes it's hard for filmmakers to convince the audience that chemistry and sexual attraction onscreen is real, but there's no problem here. Then there's Richard Crenna, who had the unenviable task to do the opposite and play someone who has absolutely no sexuality at all, and is not the least bit attractive. The narrative is simply classic film noir - but it's modernization makes it feel new, despite it's age old origin. Ted Danson, J. A. Preston and Mickey Rourke fit in well as supporting players, very much on the periphery. Glad to have finally seen this when it cropped up in a recent Hall of Fame.

21. Nightcrawler - A new classic - and a true great. Jake Gyllenhaal plays a great sociopath here - he deserved an Oscar nomination. The film does particularly well at shining a light on how gutter journalism tends to focus our attention away from what is actually important and instead fixes our gaze on the sensational and tawdry. It doesn't make it any less popular however - I guess we just have to settle on the film making it more visible and obvious as to how we're being cheated by allowing entertainment to trump truth, and especially what's important. It might be the end of us, if we don't forget the trivial and sensational and not focus on what's real and critical. I thought Nightcrawler was a very important film, and extraordinarily well made. I had it at #13 on my ballot.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen : 55/80
I'd never even heard of : 9/80
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 16/80
Films from my list : 8

#21 - My #13 - Nightcrawler (2014)
#27 - My #24 - The Man Who Wasn't There (2001)
#28 - My #1 - The Conversation (1974)
#30 - My #23 - Zodiac (2007)
#42 - My #19 - Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005)
#44 - My #21 - Blade Runner 2049 (2017)
#52 - My #11 - Oldboy (2003)
#81 - My #17 - Brick (2005)