View Full Version : The MoFo Top 100 Neo-noir Countdown
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rauldc14
03-18-24, 07:48 AM
Silence of the Lambs at 6 for me!
stillmellow
03-18-24, 07:58 AM
*: and let's be honest, people trying to imitate Lynch or Pynchon usually ends badly.
It is indeed VERY difficult to imitate Lynch. I'm a fan of his surreal work (except for the return of Twin Peaks, but that's a different conversation), and there are two rules he always follows:
1. No matter how strange everything is, there must be consistent rules and logic that govern everything.
2. Never explain these rules to the audience.
Maybe part of Under the Silver Lake's problems is, by the end, it explains too much.
ScarletLion
03-18-24, 08:05 AM
Following, Blue Ruin and Manhunter! Great films and nice to see them in this list. Brick too (which was my #23).
Under the Silver Lake is an intriguing film but not a great one. Silence of the Lambs is terrific but I didn't have it as a neo noir, I'd say it's straight up crime thriller.
Holden Pike
03-18-24, 09:15 AM
98039
Silence of the Lambs was #16 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1990s, #75 on the MoFo Top 100 Horror Films, and #50 on the 2010 reboot of that list.
4lists55pointsCape Fear (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/11349-cape-fear.html)Director
J. Lee Thompson, 1962
Starring
Gregory Peck, Robert Mitchum, Polly Bergen, Lori Martin
4lists55pointsOne False Move (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/21128-one-false-move.html)Director
Carl Franklin, 1992
Starring
Bill Paxton, Billy Bob Thornton, Cynda Williams, Michael Beach
TRAILERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lej6ZDMieD4
Cape Fear - An attorney and his family are stalked by the vicious criminal he helped to send to jail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3rH-x4LW3k
One False Move - After a series of drug deals and murders, three criminals head to a small Arkansas town, where the town's sheriff prepares to face them.
I've seen the Cape Fear remake, but not the original. I might have seen One False Move during the 90s, but I really don't remember. Sounds like something I might enjoy. Either way, I'm assuming I haven't seen it so no changes for me.
SEEN: 14/28
MY BALLOT: 3/25
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19.
20.
21.
22.
23.
24.
25.
I've seen Cape Fear and liked it, but it didn't make my ballot. I don't think I have seen One False Move.
Seen: 21/28
I should give Manhunter another chance. It left me cold, which is not how you want to react to a story that explores the depths of the psycopathic mind. My biggest issue with it is that the scenery chewed the actors; in other words, it's as if Mann was more concerned with the aesthetics than the people. Petersen is one of the director's great workaholic perfectionists, though.
At least we have season 3 of Hannibal's excellent take on this story (the less said about Red Dragon, the better).
Iroquois
03-18-24, 11:02 AM
no votes. have seen cape fear (1962) and remember thinking it was okay. haven't seen one false move.
Harry Lime
03-18-24, 11:05 AM
Cape Fear is great. Very good film. I will definitely take the original over Scorsese's remake. I'm sure some would argue with me on that. But I think we can all agree The Simpsons Cape Feare beats them both.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTOri5ytDFA
One False Move is good but it's not upper tier for me. Maybe another that needs a rewatch before I can officially say. But still, The Simpson Cape Feare episode am I right...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKXtv2_IaCY
Don't forget...
https://youtu.be/aRq1Ksh-32g?si=Yj5eEvcfBDE-wLZL
https://youtu.be/quxW1V8Hwlg?si=GfRRkYdOYrhsbyEW
I never finished Cape Fear, maybe because that episode spoiled it for me!
Miss Vicky
03-18-24, 11:27 AM
I haven't seen either of these.
I watched Cape Fear last year for the first time. I didn’t love it but I did enjoy it quite a bit and Mitchum is awesome in it.
I remember One False Move from working at Blockbuster, but never took it home. Ashamed to say it didn’t get back on my radar until Criterion decided to pick it up. When it hits the channel I will be checking it out.
...it has that scene with the songwriter, which might be one of my favourite scenes in 2010s cinema.
Wanted to quote this, because I still to this day find myself thinking about this scene, or talking to someone about it quite frequently. This scene really blew me away, and was easily the strongest scene in the film. Not one person I mention this movie to has seen it or even heard of it for that matter. Definitely an underseen gem, flawed as it may be.
Citizen Rules
03-18-24, 12:03 PM
I tried watching Cape Fear (1962)but didn't finish it, not my type of film...However I'm about to watch all of Gregory Peck's filmography and seeing how he stars in Cape Fear I will finally catch it.Not heard of the other one.
I had One False Move on my ballot at #19.
https://d32gva8s8jjsl4.cloudfront.net/img/p/9/8/4/5/9845-cover_large.jpg
This film is in the Criterion Collection, and it is well-deserved. Extremely dark, this one. Excellent, memorable performances, wonderful locations, and just an all around solid neo. Not one I watch a ton, as it has some really brutal violence in the first act and am absolutely heartbreaking ending. Really unsettling, sort of blank stare sociopath in this one, also. A true noir!
Just quickly: Never considered The Silence of the Lambs or Manhunter for my ballot as I don't think either of these excellent films ticks enough noir boxes to make it. The Silence of the Lambs is easily one of the best films of the 90s, and belongs on a list, just not this list.
I enjoyed Under the Silver Lake quite a bit, but it is a flawed a somewhat overlong film, and it didn't come to mind as a noir. Good, but not great. Points for style and the scene Iro mentioned.
Cape Fear is great, but didn't make my list. I like the Scorsese version more.
Mona Lisa is a blind spot for me, as I had never heard of it. Will watch it soon.
I tried watching Cape Fear (1962)but didn't finish it, not my type of film...However I'm about to watch all of Gregory Peck's filmography and seeing how he stars in Cape Fear I will finally catch it.Not heard of the other one.
I am going to have to be a mofo for another 100 years to figure out your taste. I would have thought Cape Fear right up your alley because of the cast and pacing.
Citizen Rules
03-18-24, 12:34 PM
I am going to have to be a mofo for another 100 years to figure out your taste. I would have thought Cape Fear right up your alley because of the cast and pacing.The thing is: I dislike the strong negative emotions created by a movie about helpless victims being threatened by an evil person for the duration of the film. Though I'm sure it's a great film, I know it's a classic. But feeling annoying anxiety until the very end of a film when the victims triumph over the evil person, just isn't fun for me. Though I'm guessing people must enjoy that release of their emotional tension with the killing of the evil person or evil creature. I hope that make's sense?
Holden Pike
03-18-24, 12:35 PM
This is what I wrote about Scorsese's remake - which I do prefer over the original - in my Scorsese thread...
97728
The only true re-make Scorsese has done to date is Cape Fear, from a pulp novel called The Executioners by John D. MacDonald, previously adapted to film in 1962 by British-born director J. Lee Thompson (The Guns of Navarone), starring Gregory Peck, Robert Mitchum, Polly Bergen, Martin Balsam and Telly Savalas. Scorsese was a big fan of the movie, one of the latter Noir classics, so he knew there was no need to re-make it in the same tone and style. His own spin on the material is quite different, though while keeping the same main plot points and conflicts, he paints a more complex morality tale for a more complex time.
97734
The movie is about vengeance, and the inability to outrun past mistakes. Nick Nolte, who previously worked with Scorsese on the short film "Life Lessons" (one segment of the anthology New York Stories), stars as Sam Bowden, a Southern defense attorney who has just moved to a new small town with his wife, played by Jessica Lange, and teenage daughter, played by Juliette Lewis. On the surface everything is perfect, but we quickly learn that Sam is on the flirtatious verge of an adulterous affair with a co-worker (Illeana Douglas), and there is much underlying tension in the marriage because of past infidelities - part of the reason for the move and "new" start. Also, their daughter Danielle, rebellious and just coming into her sexuality though unsure of what it is, was caught with some pot at school and must take a summer school course. Despite the huge house and good job in an idyllic town, the Bowden family is far from perfect. Then enters The Devil, who comes in the form of Max Cady (DeNiro), a hard-as-nails ex-con who has just been released after a long sentence. He's come looking for Sam Bowden, his former attorney, who he blames for his incarceration - for the rape and brutal beating of a young woman. Soon Cady will be wreaking true terror on all three members of the Bowden family, at first with intimidation, building surely to life-threatening peril.
97729
While the basics of ex-con Cady terrorizing the Bowdens are the same, this modernized version is really much, much different than the '62 flick. In the original, Mr. and Mrs. Bowden (Peck and Bergen) had a strong marriage, and their daughter was a good and happy child. Cady (Mitchum) came at them relentlessly, but his anger was really irrational and insane. In the Scorsese version, the Bowdens have all kinds of issues and faults, and Cady's rage - while certainly insane, is justified on some basic level, because we learn that Sam had actually blown the case intentionally, having essentially passed judgement on the horrible crime of his client. Peck's attorney had done his job to the letter, but Mitchum still blamed him anyway. Nolte's lawyer buried evidence that could have either gotten DeNiro's monster off completely or at least severely decreased his sentence. That decision, while understandable on a human level because Cady's crime was so viscious, is of course completely and totally wrong in regards to the ethics of the law and our system of justice. All of these changes make the story more complicated, and for me much more engaging and real (even if the tone often approaches the surreal). The Demon trying to destroy them is one of Sam's own creation, and the weaknesses Cady uses to get at them are further extensions of their own faults and failures, not just a random Hell coming to attack a perfect family.
97730
The visuals, as well as the tone, are very stylized. Scorsese and cinematographer Freddie Francis (The Elephant Man, Glory, The Straight Story) really have fun with the look of the film, and this was Scorsese's first use of a true 2.35:1 widescreen process (something he had avoided over his career specifically because he hated seeing scope films butchered with panning and scanning for TV and video distribution, but with the advent of LaserDiscs he knew the proper aspect ratio could now be maintained), and he uses every inch of the wide frame - some amazing compositions. The musical score by Elmer Berstein is for the most part a re-arrangement of the original score from Thompson's film, a wonderful theme by the immortal Bernard Herrmann (Citizen Kane, Verigo, Psycho), who's last score was for Marty's Taxi Driver (completed quite literally in the last days of his life). It was a perfect idea, that Scorsese credits to a suggestion from DeNiro. It is a powerful and thunderous piece of music, and perfectly matches the style of the movie - part loving hommage, part winking exaggeration.
Scorsese also has loads of fun with the thriller genre conventions. For me this is his Touch of Evil. Just as Welles was able to add his artistry and perspective to a pulpy Noir tale, so does Scorsese here with material that, even with the added psychological deminsions and character flaws, is still at the roots very much a genre piece and adheres to (while still playing with and commenting upon) those rules and cliches.
97731
Nolte is very good and controlled as Sam, and Lange is his equal as the very tough but almost at her breaking point Leigh. Juliette Lewis was an amazing find (her biggest role to that time was as Audrey in Christmas Vacation), and she was rightly Oscar nominated for her pitch perfect work as the curious teen who's budding sexuality leads straight to Hell and terror. The creepy nature of her relationship with Cady is another ingredient absent from the original, as you'd expect. And of course, yet again, DeNiro (also Oscar nominated) goes through another physical and karmic transformation to become the super-muscular, overly-tattooed monster with a thick Southern drawl and a head full of vengeance and Bible quotations. His performance is pitched at the same stylized level as the visuals and tone, and while certainly over-the-top, it is an intentional camp that still manages to be credibly horrifying and believable while also cartoonish and broad, a real multi-dimensional character and a parody at the same time.
The supporting cast includes Joe Don Baker (Charley Varrick, Walking Tall) as a private investigator Sam hires to help steer Cady clear of his family, good ol' Fred Dalton Thompson (The Hunt for Red October, Die Hard 2) as Bowden's boss, and in three wonderful cameos as a cop, a lawyer and a judge respectively, Bob Mitchum, Gregory Peck and Martin Balsam - the stars of the '62 film.
97735
"Maybe I'm the Big Bad Wolf?"
Because some of the thriller conventions are so silly out of context, and because the entire movie is stylized so over-the-top, building to a fantastic if unlikely crescendo of a finale, Cape Fear is probably easily dismissed by many as nothing more than a slick and ridiculous thriller, which on one level it is. But there is much more to the movie than those simple surface elements, and it makes for one of Scorsese's most fun and accessible works (though definitely adult and grisly).
97732
An interesting trvia note: Cape Fear was originally supposed to be made by Steven Spielberg, and Schindler's List by Scorsese. They essentially traded projects, when Marty thought a Jewish director might bring something he couldn't to the material. The Cape Fear screenwriter, Wesley Strick (Arachnophobia, Wolf), had adapted the original with Spielberg in mind, and as you'd imagine the movie was far less dark and not as morally murky. When he learned Scorsese was helming the project, he gleefully excised the perfect family for the troubled group and demonic terror. Scorsese was rewarded with the most commercially successful movie of his career, and Spielberg with dozens of awards. But, oh, to imagine Schindler in the hands of Martin Scorsese...!
97733
Cape Fear was released as a special edition R1 DVD in 2001 (as was the 1962 original version), including deleted scenes and an excellent retrospective documentary. No commentary track though (again, too busy with Gangs of New York).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDWEc2_Hqrg&t=2s
John-Connor
03-18-24, 12:39 PM
Couldn't re-watch both Cape Fears in time but love them both and expected both to make it without my vote. I agree the remake is slightly more potent but more about that later, hopefully. Also needed to re-watch Mona Lisa. Bob Hoskins is great so fingers crossed he shows up on the list a couple more times.
98042
Ow yeah! Here come the 90’s Neo noir gems! Intense, twisty, small southern town vibe noir with eccentric but believable and perfectly cast characters. Great story, score, and a strong true noir ending, love this film, it was my #4.
SEEN 24/28
BALLOT 5/25
25. Mirage (1965)
22. In the Heat of the Night (1967)
17. The Driver (1978)
08. The Hot Spot (1990)
04. One False Move (1992)
The thing is: I dislike the strong negative emotions created by a movie about helpless victims being threatened by an evil person for the duration of the film. Though I'm sure it's a great film, I know it's a classic. But feeling annoying anxiety until the very end of a film when the victims triumph over the evil person, just isn't fun for me. Though I'm guessing people must enjoy that release of their emotional tension with the killing of the evil person or evil creature. I hope that make's sense?
Definitely. I think atmosphere is the reason I don’t care much for horror. Most just feels unrelentingly oppressive. Not sure why thrillers don’t do the same to me, but it actually seems like the opposite. I love a good crime thriller 9/10 times.
Citizen Rules
03-18-24, 12:54 PM
Definitely. I think atmosphere is the reason I don’t care much for horror. Most just feels unrelentingly oppressive. Not sure why thrillers don’t do the same to me, but it actually seems like the opposite. I love a good crime thriller 9/10 times.I can like a crime thriller if it's the criminal on the ropes.
SpelingError
03-18-24, 01:39 PM
Haven't seen either film.
Don't forget...
https://youtu.be/aRq1Ksh-32g?si=Yj5eEvcfBDE-wLZL
https://youtu.be/quxW1V8Hwlg?si=GfRRkYdOYrhsbyEW
I never finished Cape Fear, maybe because that episode spoiled it for me!
The whole episode is great, but the "FBI/Thompson" bit has got to be one of my Top 3 favorite moments of the show. I was literally rolling on the floor laughing.
ScarletLion
03-18-24, 01:49 PM
None in my ballot. Cape Fear is a good film, I should really watch the original.
This is what I wrote about One False Move as I saw it very recently:
I watched this because Patton Oswalt raved about it in his Criterion closet picks. It's fine, not blisteringly good, but just fine.
The late Bill Paxton bless him, is quite good but a little over the top as the less than tactful smalltown cop. Most of the characters are a little over the top to be honest, from the L.A. Detective pouring a boozy hip flask in his morning coffee in a diner, to the violent Billy Bob Thornton saying "*********" and "Son of a bitch" every few minutess (I counted 9 Goddammits). Thornton co-wrote the screenplay too, so you might have thought he’d be a little more adventurous in his vocabulary.
At the end of the day it’s a slightly better than average neo-noir about a murderous trio on the run who end up in a sleepy backwater town, while the cops wait for them. There’s a racial undertone and a subplot of a hidden secret. A fun Saturday night type of film
6.9/10
The whole episode is great, but the "FBI/Thompson" bit has got to be one of my Top 3 favorite moments of the show. I was literally rolling on the floor laughing.Dan Castellaneta's delivery of "I think he's talking to you" will never not be funny.
John W Constantine
03-18-24, 02:18 PM
I wait patiently until I can sit and do another watch thru on that series again.
WHITBISSELL!
03-18-24, 02:27 PM
2 for 2. I've seen the two versions of Cape Fear and do love them both but prefer Scorcese's just a bit more. And One False Move was #18 on my ballot.
15 of 28.
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... CAPE FEAR
https://i0.wp.com/karengberry.mywriting.network/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2021/07/Cape_Fear_2.jpg
RT – 96%, IMDb – 7.7
Derya Cetin said:
"Cape Fear approaches the classic film noir in terms of characters. Although there is no femme fatale in the movie, detective Charlie Sievers, lawman Sam Bowden, villain Max Caddy overlaps with the characters of the classic film noir." (read full document here (https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/2514528))
Jessica Schneider, from Auto Machination, said:
"A noir might be limited by its genre, but it can still thrive within that genre. Cape Fear does." (read full review here (https://www.automachination.com/the-envy-of-one-mans-family-cape-fear-1962/))
Gideon58 said:
"The original Cape Fear [is] a moody psychological thriller that works thanks to a consistently fascinating story and strong direction that creates Hitchcock-calibre suspense throughout." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2043942-cape-fear.html))
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... ONE FALSE MOVE
https://i.imgur.com/ndUdHpO.png
RT – 93%, IMDb – 7.1
Roger Ebert said:
"No words of praise can quite reflect the seductive strength of One False Move, which begins as a crime story and ends as a human story in which everything that happens depends on the personalities of the characters." (read full review here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/one-false-move-1992))
Nick Bartlett, from Critical Popcorn, said:
"A wonderfully gritty slice of noir, One False Move is lean, uncompromising and palpably nasty without being gratuitous. From the chilling murders of the opening scene to the climactic shootout, it commands your attention for every minute of its runtime." (read full review here (https://criticalpopcorn.com/2023/11/06/one-false-move-blu-ray-review-dir-carl-franklin-criterion-collection/))
Takoma11 said:
"This is a film with a lot of moving parts and, at the same time, the kind of film that moves unwaveringly toward what we know must be the ending--some sort of showdown/shootout in Star City. What is really amazing about it is the way that it milks tension from shorter, more contained sequences, even as the broader story moves toward its inevitable conclusion." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2187343-one-false-move.html))
mrblond
03-18-24, 05:51 PM
Here one more admirer of the Scorsese's version of Cape Fear.
For some reason, I'm not attracted to see Cape Fear of the sixties.
stillmellow
03-18-24, 06:14 PM
I've seen the remake of Cape Fear, but not the original. It's very good, but disturbing enough to make it a difficult watch.
The Simpsons episode is one of the funniest, ever.
AWARDS?
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMDZjYTI0NTctNmM0MS00ZTUwLWE5ZTktNjEwYzE5MzJiNWFlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNzQ0MDUyMzg@._V1_.jpg
Under the Silver Lake received several nominations and awards. These are some of them:
Two (2) Sitges Catalonian International Film Festival nominations, including the Critics Award
Two (2) Neuchâtel International Fantastic Film Festival nominations, including the Youth Award (David Robert Mitchell)
Two (2) International Online Cinema Award nominations, including a win for Best Actor (Andrew Garfield)
Cannes Film Festival Palme d'Or nomination
Chlotrudis Award nomination for Buried Treasure
AWARDS?
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/msdsiofec023h_a_l.jpg?w=2000&h=1126&crop=1
The Silence of the Lambs received a sh!tload of nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:
Seven (7) Academy Award nominations, including the "Big Five"
Nine (9) BAFTA Award nominations, including two wins for Best Actor and Actress (Anthony Hopkins and Jodie Foster)
Five (5) Golden Globe Award nominations, including one win for Best Actress (Foster)
Four (4) National Board of Review Awards, including Best Film
Two (2) Saint Jordi Award nominations, including one win for Best Actor (Hopkins)
AWARDS?
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMDZjYTI0NTctNmM0MS00ZTUwLWE5ZTktNjEwYzE5MzJiNWFlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNzQ0MDUyMzg@._V1_.jpg
Under the Silver Lake received several nominations and awards. These are some of them:
Two (2) Sitges Catalonian International Film Festival nominations, including the Critics Award
Two (2) Neuchâtel International Fantastic Film Festival nominations, including the Youth Award (David Robert Mitchell)
Two (2) International Online Cinema Award nominations, including a win for Best Actor (Andrew Garfield)
Cannes Film Festival Palme d'Or nomination
Chlotrudis Award nomination for Buried Treasure
AWARDS?
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/msdsiofec023h_a_l.jpg?w=2000&h=1126&crop=1
The Silence of the Lambs received a sh!tload of nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:
Seven (7) Academy Award nominations, including the "Big Five"
Nine (9) BAFTA Award nominations, including two wins for Best Actor and Actress (Anthony Hopkins and Jodie Foster)
Five (5) Golden Globe Award nominations, including one win for Best Actress (Foster)
Four (4) National Board of Review Awards, including Best Film
Two (2) Saint Jordi Award nominations, including one win for Best Actor (Hopkins)
Forgot these two yesterday, so now my OCD will be pestering me through all the countdown because they're in the middle of the next batch.
AWARDS?
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZTY3MDc5ZjItMDk4Ny00OTYyLTk3NDktOTE3NWY5YjMyZDE2XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjUyNDk2ODc@._V1_.jpg
Cape Fear didn't receive any awards, but One False Move received the following nominations and awards:
The Cognac Festival du Film Policier Grand Prix and Critics Award
Two (2) Fantasporto International Fantasy Film Award nominations, including Best Screenplay (Billy Bob Thornton and Tom Epperson)
Five (5) Film Independent Spirit Award nominations, including a win for Best Director (Carl Franklin)
Two (2) Mystfest award nominations, including Best Director (Franklin)
MTV Movie Award for Best New Filmmaker (Franklin)
cricket
03-18-24, 06:55 PM
Cape Fear is terrific and I think I prefer it slightly to the remake. Both would probably make my top 40.
I'm surprised to see One False Move, not because it isn't good, but because I don't think it's that widely seen. With all the disturbing movies I watch, the beginning of this one really gets to me. A good film but a bit unpleasant.
Random list facts...
Obviously, things will change as the list goes on, but so far things have been really tight. The biggest point gap has been three (3) between Mona Lisa (48 points) and Manhunter (51 points).
On that same line, there have been 10 ties, including two 3-way ties from #99 to #97 and from #74 to tomorrow's #72.
So far, there has been just one (1) film with a 100% RT score: The Man from Nowhere.
On a similar line, the highest IMDb scores so far have been for The Silence of the Lambs (8.6) and Shutter Island (8.2) while the lowest has been The Hot Spot (6.4) and Under the Silver Lake (6.5).
GulfportDoc
03-18-24, 09:11 PM
The thing is: I dislike the strong negative emotions created by a movie about helpless victims being threatened by an evil person for the duration of the film. Though I'm sure it's a great film, I know it's a classic. But feeling annoying anxiety until the very end of a film when the victims triumph over the evil person, just isn't fun for me. Though I'm guessing people must enjoy that release of their emotional tension with the killing of the evil person or evil creature. I hope that make's sense?
I know what you mean. I feel the same way about those types of films. Too much gnawing negative suspense.
I liked Cape Fear, especially so more than the '91 remake, but it's not a film I'd want to re-watch. I've done some reading about the filming, and evidently during the rape scene between Mitchum and Polly Bergen, she stated that they both totally lost it, and it was only when they went crashing through wall during the struggle that she realized they were acting.
GulfportDoc
03-18-24, 09:15 PM
I really enjoyed One False Move. I'm a big BBT fan.
One False Move
Billy Bob Thornton co-wrote the screenplay, which is probably why a lot of it is set in Arkansas (he's from Hot Springs). It was pretty edgy for its day, and many films have imitated it in one way or another since.
Bill Paxton, as the local sheriff, was meant to be the central character, but I don't think he quite rose to the task. He was often convincing, but at other times, his attempts at an AR accent and good old boy traits seemed inauthentic. Likewise the white L.A. cop character was okay at the beginning, but then later seemed lost in the part and made it superficial.
The rest of the cast was very good. Billy Bob played the white trash sociopath very nicely, although I'm sure looking back that he felt he could have done better. But it was Cynda Williams who stole the show in my opinion as Thornton's girlfriend (I didn't realize they were married at the time in real life). Her character covered a gamut of emotions and moods, which she expressed perfectly. It could have been an award winning role.
It's a well directed film about a familiar subject: crazed criminals doing drug deals and murders.... but with a character study twist.
Little Ash
03-18-24, 11:09 PM
It is indeed VERY difficult to imitate Lynch. I'm a fan of his surreal work (except for the return of Twin Peaks, but that's a different conversation), and there are two rules he always follows:
1. No matter how strange everything is, there must be consistent rules and logic that govern everything.
2. Never explain these rules to the audience.
Maybe part of Under the Silver Lake's problems is, by the end, it explains too much.
Well, even the parts that it didn't fully explain, the whole dog killer thing and everything with dogs. Clearly the protagonist was responsible for the death of his ex-girlfriend's dog. So, it's not so much it was all literally explained, it was very on the nose. It's just tonally of trying a little too consciously. Other people who imitate Lynch will often just try to do the mood, but don't really have much to say. I guess, that might also be a bit of a weakness to Silver Lake. It had something to say about a young grieving over the relationship he screwed up, spending the movie trying to come up with conspiracies/etc (I'm shooting from the hip on my explanation here and it's been a while, so I'm not reconciling the new girl with the previous relationship and I might be missing details), but what it's saying is something a young-ish man would think of as a theme. And you look at what Lynch did with Mulholland Drive and other movies, and it just feels like someone who's older reflecting on things that maybe a younger person has gone through, but something an older person would still be concerned with. Just spit-balling.
But going over your points -
The first point, I'd say it's not so much having the consistent rules or logic (though Lynch does have those), but it's more, do they have something to say. And a chunk of people imitating Lynch go the "weird" vibe, but don't really have a strong sense of what they want to say, which will often result in inconsistent rules as they shoot from the hip.
The second point, of never explaining rules to the audience, it does hint at if a movie is doing that, they're feeling very self-conscious about their metaphors, which, well, successful surrealist movies tend to be effortless. And Under the Silver Lake didn't necessarily feel effortless.
Just rambling on my thoughts on trying to break apart the nuances of when surrealism works and when it doesn't. Shooting from the hip.
Little Ash
03-18-24, 11:29 PM
I remember liking the original Cape Fear, but would need a rewatch. And given the number of other neo-noir films I like (though struggled to remember their existence), I intuitively suspected it wouldn't make my top 25. If it was classified as a classic noir, I'm pretty sure it would have made that top 25.
One False Move wasn't on my radar until some of the promotional stuff Carl Franklin was doing in a couple of months before I saw the criterion announced. I finally watched it on Mubi within the last couple of weeks, since that's where it's currently streaming. Solid little noir. I agree with the statements about Cynda Williams giving probably the best performance in the movie.
stillmellow
03-19-24, 01:18 AM
Well, even the parts that it didn't fully explain, the whole dog killer thing and everything with dogs. Clearly the protagonist was responsible for the death of his ex-girlfriend's dog. So, it's not so much it was all literally explained, it was very on the nose. It's just tonally of trying a little too consciously. Other people who imitate Lynch will often just try to do the mood, but don't really have much to say. I guess, that might also be a bit of a weakness to Silver Lake. It had something to say about a young grieving over the relationship he screwed up, spending the movie trying to come up with conspiracies/etc (I'm shooting from the hip on my explanation here and it's been a while, so I'm not reconciling the new girl with the previous relationship and I might be missing details), but what it's saying is something a young-ish man would think of as a theme. And you look at what Lynch did with Mulholland Drive and other movies, and it just feels like someone who's older reflecting on things that maybe a younger person has gone through, but something an older person would still be concerned with. Just spit-balling.
But going over your points -
The first point, I'd say it's not so much having the consistent rules or logic (though Lynch does have those), but it's more, do they have something to say. And a chunk of people imitating Lynch go the "weird" vibe, but don't really have a strong sense of what they want to say, which will often result in inconsistent rules as they shoot from the hip.
The second point, of never explaining rules to the audience, it does hint at if a movie is doing that, they're feeling very self-conscious about their metaphors, which, well, successful surrealist movies tend to be effortless. And Under the Silver Lake didn't necessarily feel effortless.
Just rambling on my thoughts on trying to break apart the nuances of when surrealism works and when it doesn't. Shooting from the hip.
Definitely valid points. With David Lynch, what I love most is the feel of his movies. A sensation of being lost, right alongside the equally lost protagonists. By the end, both the viewer and protagonist reach the end of their journey. They may not fully understand why everything happened, but they always understand what they must do.
Under the Silver Lake takes a slightly different approach, where the protagonist understands more and more of the conspiracy, but never sees that there is no place for him inside of it. This isn't a rescue mission in need of a hero. It's a complex cult for the ultra-wealthy. Even if it's all a lie, everyone inside clearly wants to be fooled.
Was this movie everything David Robert Mitchell wanted it to be? Clearly not. But it's still an incredibly interesting movie and neo-noir.
Lewis Carrol made Alice in Wonderland as a satire of the 'new math' being taught at universities, and how ridiculous the concept of 'imaginary numbers' are. In hindsight, he was extremely wrong. But the stories he created are still wonderful.
honeykid
03-19-24, 08:31 AM
I've seen both version of Cape Fear and probably prefer the original even if it does star Robert Mitchum. Not seen any others since my last post.
Holden Pike
03-19-24, 10:13 AM
The first from my Top Ten is One False Move!
98054
It announced the talents of director Carl Franklin (Devil in a Blue Dress) and co-writer/co-star Billy Bob Thornton while proving what kind of range Bill Paxton had, all wrapped up in this jaunty, sad, violent, wonderfully Noirish tale about regret and bad decisions. I love how it subverts expectations a bit in that a typical Hollywood script would focus on the two Los Angeles Detectives, have the smalltown Sheriff be comic relief, and the bad guys one-dimensional plot points. But it is the big city cops who are the peripheral characters while the Sheriff is much more than he seems on first glance, and the secret of one of the fugitives is what binds them all together beyond the crimes they are being sought for.
In the mid-‘80s Bill Paxton was fantastic, making a name for himself in a slew of highlighted supporting roles including Aliens, Weird Science, and Near Dark. He never got many bonafide starring roles in his career, even as it progressed, but he is so very good at the center of One False Move. His small-town sheriff is the right mixture of cocky when dealing with his everyday level of duties and anxious to impress the big city cops who have come looking for fugitives, but then all of that flushes away when he sees Fantasia and has to confront his past. He would later shine in Traveler, on the HBO series "Big Love", in his own Frailty, and in Sam Raimi's A Simple Plan (which should still be coming on the list, again with Billy Bob), but he really should have had more starring roles.
98055
And Billy Bob! He was just a struggling actor at that point, with no film career to speak of (Chopper Chicks in Zombietown, anyone?) and only getting bit guest spots on TV like a ”Matlock” and an ”Evening Shade” here and there. 1992 was the same year he would land on the sitcom ”Hearts Afire” with John Ritter & Markie Post, which paid the bills for a few seasons while he could get Sling Blade financed. But One False Move was the first hint at how good an actor he could be as well as how interesting a writer.
Michael Beach is also a standout here as the extremely calm and calculating killer. He's had a long, serviceable career as a character actor, but he is so chilling and perfect in One False Move.
It was eighth on my ballot, eighteen of its fifty-five points. A little shocked it’s not much higher on the countdown, but hopefully more of you discover it, now.
HOLDEN'S BALLOT
8. One False Move (#73)
15. Shallow Grave (#95)
17. Dead Again (#90)
22. The Hot Spot (#85)
24. Blue Ruin (#82)
25. Johnny Handsome (DNP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALtQvVa72gc&t=3s
7lists55pointsPoint Blank (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/26039-point-blank.html)Director
John Boorman, 1967
Starring
Lee Marvin, Angie Dickinson, Keenan Wynn, Carroll O'Connor
4lists56pointsBranded to Kill (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/17905-branded-to-kill.html)Director
Seijun Suzuki, 1967
Starring
Joe Shishido, Kôji Nanbara, Isao Tamagawa, Annu Mari
TRAILERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3gj5_6DHRY
Point Blank - After being double-crossed by his partner and left for dead, a ruthless crook returns years later to get revenge and retrieve the money that was stolen from him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtJwa4gV9Lo
Branded to Kill - After a botched assignment, a third-ranked hit man finds himself in conflict with his organization and becomes the target of a mysterious, dangerous fellow hitman.
Darn blast it! I haven't seen either of these two!
Seen: 21/30
Haven't seen either of these two, but Point Blank has been on my radar for a good while. Branded to Kill looks like something I might enjoy also, even if that eye bit in the trailer made me wince :laugh:
SEEN: 14/30
MY BALLOT: 3/25
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19.
20.
21.
22.
23.
24.
25.
Two I haven't heard of!
19/30 seen
Point Blank is awesome. It's #21 on my list. Here's something I wrote about it a few years ago:
This is a gripping and stylish crime thriller that holds up very well. While there's no mistaking the decade in which it was made, the movie is shot and edited in ways that inspired modern directors like Soderbergh and Tarantino. The premise is simple and direct: a thief known only as Walker (Lee Marvin) is betrayed and left for dead, so he works his way up the criminal underworld's food chain to recover what he believes they owe him. It's a common premise in this genre to be sure, but Boorman's aforementioned flair makes it unlike any movie in it I've ever seen before from the ways it jumps back and forth in time to making you wonder what's real and what's happening in any of the characters' heads.
I like how Lee Marvin plays Walker as a force of nature who only has vengeance on his mind, but still makes him seem human, and it's a joy to see early work by character actors I've enjoyed watching since I was young like John Vernon and James Sikking. The movie shows its age and not in a good way here and there, most notably in a special effect that made me laugh out loud, but as someone who has seen dozens of movies and TV shows in this genre, it was a nice surprise to see something that's over a half century old that seems so new.
Payback, the '99 Mel Gibson movie based on the same source novel (The Hunter) isn't bad either, but I prefer this movie.
John W Constantine
03-19-24, 12:59 PM
Branded to Kill is quite an experience. Point Blank is a fun Lee Marvin venture.
Holden Pike
03-19-24, 01:10 PM
Point Blank used to be top tier Neo-Noir canon. Its reputation has slid a bit of late, but whether you think it is a masterpiece or a silly bore, Boorman's style and Lee Marvin's cool ooze all over it and make it worth a watch at least once. It was definitely influential on a couple generations of crime filmmakers that came afterwards.
As always you may take Tarantino's strong opinions and standards for what they are worth, but here is a video version of one of the chapters from his book Cinema Speculation that compares and contrasts the first two Parker/Walker film adaptations in Point Blank and The Outfit and puts them into context of their eras...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krQ3YfGX4AI&t=9s
The Outfit is much less famous than Point Blank so I kinda doubt it placed higher on this MoFo countdown, but I expect to see the Mel Gibson starrer Payback in the mix somewhere, also adapted from the novels. I have always liked Point Blank but actually prefer the dirtier, nastier, more brutal Lee Marvin vehicle Prime Cut when all is said and done.
Stats: Pit Stop #3
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/complex/images/xjpyvsefwbdvzidxuti5/silence-of-the-lambs-11.jpg
-
After hitting our third pit stop (70), here's were we are now:
Decade Breakdown
1960s = 7
1970s = 4
1980s = 2
1990s = 10
2000s = 2
2010s = 5
2020s = 0
Strong showing from most decades in this last batch – we got 2 from the 60s, 2 from the 70s, and 2 from the 80s... but also 2 from the 1990s, so that decade remains on top.
We still haven't had any recurring director, but trust me, there will be a bunch so sit tight.
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... POINT BLANK
https://offscreen.com/images/articles/_resized/point-blank2.png
RT – 92%, IMDb – 7.3
Roger Ebert said:
"As suspense thrillers go Point Blank is pretty good. It gets back into the groove of Hollywood thrillers, after the recent glut of spies, counterspies, funny spies, anti-hero spies and spy-spier spies. Marvin is just a plain, simple tough guy who wants to have the same justice done for him as was done for Humphrey Bogart." (read full document here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/point-blank-1967))
Peter Foy, from Criminal Element, said:
"It’s a fairly re-hashed storyline, but Point Blank finds its ethos in the execution. While British filmmaker John Boorman has had a most eclectic filmography, Point Blank remains his most satisfying and all-encompassing film overall." (read full review here (https://www.criminalelement.com/point-blank-1967-the-only-neo-noir-that-matters/))
JayDee said:
"A slick, suspenseful film that is lit up by Boorman's visual artistry and moments of terrifically stylized violence. Like a standard American thriller told with a European sensibility. And Marvin delivers a truly intimidating badass." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/823273-point-blank.html))
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... BRANDED TO KILL
https://static1.colliderimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/branded-to-kill.jpeg
RT – 100%, IMDb – 7.2
Brian Tallerico, from RogerEbert.com, said:
"Branded to Kill is a stunner that eschews traditional plotting, even the B-movie kind, for a surreal cavalcade of images that filmmakers would try and mimic for generations." (read full document here (https://www.rogerebert.com/streaming/home-entertainment-guide-may-2023))
Jaime Rebanal, from Talk Film Society, said:
"Branded to Kill may perhaps be Suzuki finding himself at his most complete [...] In its blend of gangster, B-movie, film-noir, and parody, it feels a step ahead of most films to come out at that time period." (read full review here (https://talkfilmsociety.com/columns/heading-east-branded-to-kill-1967-1))
paranoid android said:
"The most important thing about this film, to me, though is how ******* fun it is to watch. It just flew by. And even though It might not make a whole lot of sense, hell it might even try it's hardest to make the least amount of sense that it can, it's over-the-top action, abundance of style, and absurd sense of humor really make it a film that is absolutely worth watching." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2230413-branded-to-kill.html))
That was not the Suzuki film I thought would make the countdown...high hopes tor Tokyo Drifter
WHITBISSELL!
03-19-24, 02:31 PM
1 for 2. Haven't seen Branded to Kill even though it was made the same year, stars the same lead, and sounds a lot like A Colt is My Passport (which I have watched).
But I have seen Point Blank and feel like it's pretty much tied in terms of entertainment value with the 1999 Mel Gibson remake. Neither of these two were on my ballot.
Have watched 16 of 30.
Holden Pike
03-19-24, 02:33 PM
98060
Branded to Kill was on my shortlist, though ultimately I left it as an also ran which I have been second-guessing, so I am glad to see it make the list. I have it on my own Top 100 of the 1960s (https://www.movieforums.com/lists/custom/224) so good on ya, MoFo!
Harry Lime
03-19-24, 04:31 PM
Point Blank is all right but I'm not a huge fan. It's cool to see Some Seijun Suzuki here as well. He's not my favourite director but feel he deserves to be here.
Branded to Kill is just out there crazy. I've seen about six or so Seijun Suzuki films and I wouldn't say Branded to Kill is my favorite, but I knew it had a good chance of making it, so I wanted to bump it a bit and so I had it at #12. Joe Shishido always reminded me a 1960s Japanese version of Charles Bronson, except way cooler.
My List:
11. The Friends of Eddie Coyle (#100)
12. Branded to Kill (#71)
18. Following (#84)
22. Purple Noon (#94)
SpelingError
03-19-24, 06:19 PM
Point Blank was #22 on my ballot.
I didn't realize Branded to Kill was eligible when I made my list, so I didn't include it, but it would've made my top five.
SpelingError
03-19-24, 06:29 PM
Point Blank was #22 on my ballot.
I didn't realize Branded to Kill was eligible when I made my list, so I didn't include it, but it would've made my top five.
Same opinion. Correct thread.
AWARDS?
https://shots.filmschoolrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/branded-to-kill.jpg
Both Point Blank and Branded to Kill are listed as winners of two (2) awards each:
National Film Preservation Board chose Point Blank for preservation in the National Film Registry (2016)
Venice Film Festival gave Branded to Kill the Venezia Classici Award for Best Restored Film (2022)
SpelingError
03-19-24, 11:26 PM
17. The Silence of the Lambs
22. Point Break
stillmellow
03-20-24, 12:30 AM
Point Blank is my #8! A great Noir that really surprised me. It's nowhere as typical a movie as I expected.
My List:
3. Brick
8. Point Blank
24. Under the Silver Lake
Little Ash
03-20-24, 12:52 AM
Two off my ballot!
#7) Branded to Kill
#13) Point Blank
Is Branded to Kill my favorite Suzuki? No, but I do like it a lot. And I think it is definitely his most noir movie. It has a somber, stylized fatalism oozing throughout the movie. Youth of the Beast might be more fun and gonzo, but it's more crime-action with its anything-goes-spirit, which could be considered noir, but I wanted something that had visual bleakness. Pistol Opera, despite being either a remake or indirect sequel to Branded to Kill, somehow feels less noir (and, well, more operatic). Tokyo Drifter, probably his other most noir film, I just don't seem to love as much as other people do and would rank it kind of far down for reasons I never am able to find myself to explain.
Point Blank, I'll admit, it's been a while since I've seen, but it's just kind of solidified in my mind as being one of the core, defining neo-noirs (maybe it didn't define neo-noir very well, since none of us feel any confidence on what is or isn't a neo-noir), but I remember it being very solid, and particularly liked the visually representations of the imaginations of the protagonist. Maybe if I rewatched it, it would have been higher. Maybe if I had remembered to include The Conversation on my ballot, it would have simply been one lower.
PHOENIX74
03-20-24, 01:14 AM
Going back to the previous day...
74. Cape Fear - I love both versions of Cape Fear and it's pretty tough to pick one over the other as the better one. Films made in two distinctive eras are hard to compare. I do really like Robert Mitchum's more nuanced, understated portrayal of Max Cady, not that I've got anything against Robert De Niro's 'unbalanced and pure evil' take on the character, which was very powerful. Heaps of fun seeing both Gregory Peck and Mitchum show up in the remake, especially considering Mitchum is now one of the good guys, and Peck plays Cady's lawyer - in a bit of role reversal. This 1962 version suffers a little bit with the strict code at the time making it necessary for some things to be more alluded to than brought out into the open - while the remake can just go flat out without having to make vague insinuations. Still, I loved the original when I first saw it and it still holds up very well today. I guess we'll see the remake show up here as well, much higher on the list. Great movie, but I didn't vote for it.
I'm not familiar with One False Move or Branded to Kill. In the meantime, I've been meaning to see Point Blank for years and years and I still haven't gotten around to it. It looks like such a great movie, and I love Lee Marvin.
Seen : 16/30
Never heard of : 5/30
Heard of but not seen : 9/30
I just caught up with One False Move and enjoyed it quite a bit. Not sure if it would've made my ballot, but it was a good watch. Bill Paxton was such a treat to watch, no matter the role.
WHITBISSELL!
03-20-24, 01:48 AM
3 so far have been on my ballot
In the Heat of the Night at #4.
One False Move at #18
Point Blank at #24
cricket
03-20-24, 07:48 AM
Liked Point Blank, didn't love it.
Think I saw Branded to Kill back when I watched Tokyo Drifter but I'm not sure.
ScarletLion
03-20-24, 08:24 AM
Not seen Point Blank
Branded to Kill' is absolutely fantastic. It was my #9. Suspense and brutalism throughout - it was homaged very heavily in Jim Jarmusch's 'Ghost Dog, the Way of the Samurai', including one very famous hit scene involving a sink.
5lists56pointsBasic Instinct (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/402-basic-instinct.html)Director
Paul Verhoeven, 1992
Starring
Michael Douglas, Sharon Stone, George Dzundza, Jeanne Tripplehorn
3lists57pointsBody Double (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/11507-body-double.html)Director
Brian De Palma, 1984
Starring
Craig Wasson, Melanie Griffith, Gregg Henry, Deborah Shelton
TRAILERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh6JwQ8XPK0
Basic Instinct - A homicide detective investigates the brutal murder of a rock star, which leads him into an intense relationship with the main suspect, a manipulative and seductive novelist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyqYgOQHzRc
Body Double - A young but struggling actor finds himself obsessed with spying a beautiful woman that lives nearby. But when murder hits, he has to go deep into the underworld of adult entertainment industry with a porn actress as a guide.
It's been too long since I've seen Basic Instinct, but I do remember liking it quite a bit. I mean, I saw it for the first time when I was 15 y/o so at that I probably enjoyed it for reasons :shifty: but I do remember liking the twists and turns it offered. For some reason, I haven't seen it in 20+ years.
I haven't seen Body Double.
SEEN: 17/32
MY BALLOT: 3/25
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19.
20.
21.
22.
23.
24.
25.
John W Constantine
03-20-24, 01:36 PM
Seen both, funny because Basic Instinct felt like a better made version of a Brian De Palma film the last time I watched it a few years ago. And I like me some De Palma.
WHITBISSELL!
03-20-24, 01:40 PM
0 for 2. No on Basic Instinct and Body Double.
16 of 32.
I really enjoyed both Basic Instinct and Body Double, but they didn't make my ballot. They would both be in my top 50 neo noir films though and I'm glad they made the countdown.
Seen: 23/32
SpelingError
03-20-24, 01:46 PM
Haven't seen either film.
Some list trivia facts and questions...
Basic Instinct surpasses Under the Silver Lake to become the film with the lowest RT score in the countdown so far (56%). Both films have been the only ones with a "rotten" score so far. Will there be a lowest one?
Also, something that I wanted to ask a couple of days ago, we've had a couple of notable remakes/remade films come up in the last days; more specifically, the original Cape Fear and The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo remake. Does anybody think there's a chance that both Scorsese's Cape Fear or the original Dragon Tattoo film might show up later?
Citizen Rules
03-20-24, 01:55 PM
Heard of both of those classics, but not seen either.
WHITBISSELL!
03-20-24, 02:00 PM
Does anybody think there's a chance that both Scorsese's Cape Fear or the original Dragon Tattoo film might show up later?Yes to the first. A probable no to the second.
John-Connor
03-20-24, 02:12 PM
98078
Both Body Double and Basic Instinct are neo-noir classics in my book. Both Verhoeven and De Palma are on my favorite directors list. Went with some strategic choices for my ballot so no votes but I probably should have. Branded to Kill is aiight, I prefer A Colt Is My Passport though.
SEEN 28/32
BALLOT 5/25
https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/gvGVkg2zBbKaZNrQzxISE889jh.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/wxk1cgl23GZQ1fC50GE9alPgNcJ.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/a5ccZmPZteTxnUZEuCbNyfQMysM.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/yWrZIm6CvdGfaiuEj8sdS3q3zXz.jpghttps://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/vOnQZPvMH05ecW4OgAUcO6VhKqT.jpg
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... BASIC INSTINCT
https://www.bfi.org.uk/sites/bfi.org.uk/files/styles/full/public/image/basic-instinct-1992-004-sharon-stone-interrogation.jpg?itok=McoFXwxw
RT – 56%, IMDb – 7.0
Roger Ebert said:
"The ending of Basic Instinct is so arbitrary that it hardly matters. This is not a movie where the outcome depends upon the personality or behavior of the characters. It's just a wind-up machine to jerk us around." (read full document here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/basic-instinct-1992))
R.L. Terry said:
"Basic Instinct simultaneously checks all the boxes for neo-noir, and still manages to break ground! It’s a mind-bending, mesmerizing thrill ride from start to finish that continues to age beautifully like a fine wine." (read full review here (https://rlterryreelview.com/2024/03/07/basicinstinct/))
TylerDurden99 said:
"I expected to it to be trash. Imagine how surprised I was to find an suspenseful, atmospheric and erotic thriller hiding beneath the trashy exterior. Seriously, I'm not joking. I think this film is terrific." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/794149-basic-instinct.html))
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... BODY DOUBLE
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/Z_XTOX57qEuVVVxVi2LoKWgWX9drPWoAPlBnKG4YWWf4rLAFNCBiKIf81O676o-6Zm7lWDyAXjFM5jMVIRGARHgcze4eK_CBZrwGzvu4n48-xgCwUs3kpXsVtjg4t3CXCxpij5_WmAKNYHRcyEL7_WA
RT – 78%, IMDb – 6.8
Roger Ebert said:
"Body Double is an exhilarating exercise in pure filmmaking, a thriller in the Hitchcock tradition in which there's no particular point except that the hero is flawed, weak, and in terrible danger -- and we identify with him completely." (read full document here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/body-double-1984))
Indie Cinema said:
"The plot of Body Double develops in an intricate way, with twists and suspense that lead the protagonist to question his own perception of reality. The film explores themes such as paranoia, obsession and delusion, mixing elements of thriller, suspense and noir with a light dose of eroticism." (read full review here (https://blog.indiecinema.co/body-double/))
Cobpyth said:
"Most people see this film merely as a potential guilty pleasure, but I actually consider it a masterpiece. It's a wonderful tribute to the master of suspense and to filmmaking in general, but unfolds as a unique, skillful and very entertaining spectacle on its own." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1035306-body-double.html))
Here is an interesting article about Basic Instinct...
Primal Urges Propel Basic Instinct (https://theasc.com/articles/primal-urges-propel-basic-instinct)
The article has bits with director Paul Verhoeven, cinematographer Jan De Bont, and production designer Terence Marsh where they bring up the film's noir leanings.
Some excerpts:
"It is a film noir, but it’s not noir that much. We always wanted it to be more white than black." --Paul Verhoeven
"Production designer Terence Marsh [...] noted that although it was decided early on that Basic Instinct would have strong film noir elements, 'we tried to give it abundant sunlight and color and to let the story tell the terrible things going on behind this idyllic facade of beach houses and oceans.'”
Thursday Next
03-20-24, 02:58 PM
I watched Basic Instinct on VHS at a friend's house when I was 13 or so. Which is a long time ago now. I remember liking the twists and sniggering at the sex scenes. Not fresh enough in my mind to be considered for my list though.
stillmellow
03-20-24, 05:03 PM
Basic Instinct is my #16. For the longest time I didn't watch it, as I don't like Michael Douglas, and a lot of reviews were middling. I was really taken aback by its great style and shamelessly seedy and evil main characters. The movie held nothing back. Certainly not everyone's cup of tea, but I really liked it.
Body Double is also good, but just missed my list. It ranked somewhere around #30.
My list:
3. Brick
8. Point Blank
16. Basic Instinct
24. Under the Silver Lake
WrinkledMind
03-20-24, 05:08 PM
Here to speak about the music again.
Pino Donaggio's work on Body Double is noteworthy.
The tune Telescope is the bomb.
https://youtu.be/iYQmsyYxSFk?si=0SwXstgpnADrHQ8a
Same goes for Manhunter. Some excellent songs. But my favourite remains Klaus Schulze's Freeze.
https://youtu.be/VDywz1wOEvs?si=USgxCw17NKuW24Nb
cricket
03-20-24, 05:31 PM
I've always associated Body Double with Blow Out and Dressed to Kill, ever since I saw them as a young teen. At first, Body Double was my least favorite. It was ingrained in my mind that 1 had Travolta, 1 had Caine, and 1 had Craig Wasson. Who in the hell is Craig Wasson?? He was fine but I just didn't know where he came from and that was always on my mind when I watched it. Once I got over it then I liked Body Double much more. Melanie is very hot in it, despite her character's limitations.
I like Basic Instinct a lot but it missed my ballot.
9. Mona Lisa (#78)
12. Body Double (#69)
15. The Driver (#79)
21. Manhunter (#77)
beelzebubble
03-20-24, 06:10 PM
I have seen both but only once each.
I was a Verhoeven fan back in the day. I don't much care for Brian DePalma but I like the actors in Body Double.
I enjoyed both of them but not enough to put them on my list.
I am about 20 minutes from the end of Body Double, but had to turn it off last night as I was dead tired from working and wanted to be able to focus properly. This film came up in Minio's thread recently as a film he (and I believe Crumbs) think is superior to anything Hitchcock made. I can't get on board with this assessment. While much of the craftsmanship and other aspects of the film are exceptional, it has too much working against to put it in the same league is Hitch. Wasson is just not a good actor, and he is difficult to take seriously. He was bad in A Nightmare on Elm Street 3 and he is bad here. The musical number in the middle is also rough.
Like many DePalma films, there are several really fantastic sequences and locations, but this film veers into camp too often for it to be a contender for my ballot, so I think that even if I had refreshed my memory on it (I hadn't seen it since the 80s), it didn't have a chance. Not DePalma's best, and certainly not better than Hitch. Good film, though.
No votes from me on these two.
Basic Instinct is another film I need to see again.
21/32 Seen
AWARDS?
https://a.ltrbxd.com/resized/sm/upload/41/5o/nh/nc/basic-instinct-1200-1200-675-675-crop-000000.jpg
Basic Instinct received the following nominations and awards:
Two (2) Academy Award nominations, including Best Editing (Frank J. Urioste)
Cannes Film Festival Palme d'Or nominee
Five (5) Saturn Award nominations, including Best Horror Film and Best Actress (Sharon Stone)
Six (6) MTV Movie Award nominations, including two wins for Best Female Performance and Most Desirable Female (Stone)
Two (2) Golden Globe Award nominations, including Best Actress (Stone)
Three (3) Razzie Award nominations, including Worst Actor (Michael Douglas)
[/QUOTE]
AWARDS?
https://static.rogerebert.com/redactor_assets/pictures/521512d296d0e7fb9a00004e/body_double_de_palma.jpg
Body Double received the following nominations and awards:
National Society of Film Critics Award for Best Supporting Actress (Griffith) - WIN
Golden Globe Award nomination for Best Supporting Actress (Melanie Griffith)
New York Film Critics Circle Award nomination for Best Supporting Actress (Griffith)
Razzie Award nomination for Worst Director (Brian De Palma)
Harry Lime
03-20-24, 07:27 PM
The nineties are owning this countdown. Two films from very cool filmmakers. I liked Basic Instinct back when it was released but I was also a teenager...not sure how it would hold up. I haven't seen Body Double but it's another film that's been on the watchlist way too long.
PHOENIX74
03-21-24, 12:53 AM
70. Basic Instinct - I think the success of Basic Instinct led to a whole slew of sexually charged thrillers in the 90s (not that it invented the formula or anything.) It's another one of those thrillers whose title is a seemingly random adjective followed by a random noun. Rabid Interest - I got that from a random adjective and noun generator, and it'll be coming out in 2025, but it could serve as the title of this film just as well. Well...we all know what everyone is thinking of when this movie comes up - especially all of us immature people who can't stop thinking about that famous shot. As for the movie as a whole - I remember an ice pick murder, the character Michael Douglas plays falling for the character Sharon Stone plays and how she's most probably a murderer - but the former doesn't want to believe it. I think that's a common enough plotline as well, which still shows up from time to time. Sharon just happened to tap into that special quality some people have to be alluring and attractive - which made her a star for a number of years after this came out - peaking with her Oscar-nominated role in Martin Scorsese's Casino. Appearing in Basic Instinct 2 in 2006 officially confirmed that she was desperate to be taken notice of again - but it's a tough business. I blame Sphere (1998). I didn't vote for Basic Instinct, but it's a great example of neo noir.
69. Body Double - I haven't seen this, and being a Brian De Palma movie I really should have I think. Appearing here in the countdown encourages me to get that done.
Seen : 17/32
Never heard of : 5/32
Heard of but not seen : 10/30
70. Basic Instinct - I think the success of Basic Instinct led to a whole slew of sexually charged thrillers in the 90s (not that it invented the formula or anything.) It's another one of those thrillers whose title is a seemingly random adjective followed by a random noun. Rabid Interest - I got that from a random adjective and noun generator, and it'll be coming out in 2025, but it could serve as the title of this film just as well.
I would say Fatal Attraction is the one to "thank" for that (see? adjective noun!) I mean, it made a lot of money, and on top of that got a handful of Academy Award nominations, which proved that this "erotic thriller" formula could "work", whatever that means. But yeah, Basic Instinct is probably the epitome of that sub-genre which gave Michael Douglas a career during that decade.
Iroquois
03-21-24, 06:58 AM
no votes. only seen basic instinct once and didn't care for it, but i have been meaning to revisit it (and considering how i've already managed to rewatch decidedly inferior erotic thrillers from the same era like fatal attraction or indecent proposal, i really have no excuse not to). body double is one of my few remaining de palma blind spots so i'll save it for a special occasion. maybe i should double bill these two.
This is my obligatory "I thought _______ would be higher" post.
In this case, Body Double.
Guess I shoulda voted.
stillmellow
03-21-24, 08:22 AM
It's funny, I've seen 16 out of 32 neo-noirs, but if you're following the regular Noir list, I'm one of the people who have seen 0 of the 32 so far.
I swear I watch classic Noir. But I have a distinct feeling I've only seen the well known ones.
It's funny, I've seen 16 out of 32 neo-noirs, but if you're following the regular Noir list, I'm one of the people who have seen 0 of the 32 so far.
I swear I watch classic Noir. But I have a distinct feeling I've only seen the well known ones.
Neo-Noir has had so many different movements over the years it's not surprising. For Classic Noir I think once 40 comes along you would likely have seen everything
3lists57pointsMystic River (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/322-mystic-river.html)Director
Clint Eastwood, 2003
Starring
Sean Penn, Tim Robbins, Kevin Bacon, Laurence Fishburne
5lists57pointsMother (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/30018-mother.html)Director
Bong Joon-ho, 2009
Starring
Kim Hye-ja, Won Bin, Jin Goo, Yoon Je-moon
TRAILERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7NktJhrRYQ
Mystic River - Three childhood friends in Boston are reunited when the 19 y/o daughter of one of them is tragically murdered. But their friendship is put to the test as their involvement in it comes to the surface.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCj6LXGA_Ds
Mother - A mother desperately tries to prove the innocence of her mentally challenged son, when he is pointed out as the main suspect of the murder of a young girl.
Mystic River is pretty good. One of those films that's a bit of a hard watch for how depressing it is, but it is very well done and well acted. That said, I really didn't think of it as neo-noir, and even if I had, I don't think I would've voted for it.
Mother is excellent, though, and I had it at #22. It is either my favorite Bong film, or it is very close with Parasite for the top spot. It is bleak, twisty, and well acted. Also, as I was preparing the reveals, I realized all the connections it has with Mystic River, which I thought was interesting. Anyway, this one's most definitely worth a watch.
SEEN: 19/34
MY BALLOT: 4/25
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19.
20.
21.
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24.
25.
Stunned that something like Mystic River is out ahead of a well-liked neo like Body Double, but whatever. Mystic River is a straight up crime thriller.
Anyway, 1/1 on seen with these last two and no votes from me today!
22/34 seen
Iroquois
03-21-24, 01:09 PM
no votes. saw mystic river once but remember not liking it (and that's about the only thing i remember about it). also saw mother once and have been meaning to rewatch it among other bong films but we'll see if/when i get to that.
Seen and liked both, neither were in contention for my ballot.
Seen: 25/34
Stunned that something like Mystic River is out ahead of a well-liked neo like Body Double, but whatever. Mystic River is a straight up crime thriller.
Well, technically, they're tied so not that far "ahead".
John W Constantine
03-21-24, 01:20 PM
Madeo (Mother) was my #10. I made a spot for it on my T100 a few years ago. Still thinking about some pieces of it so I guess I liked it very much.
Mystic River didn't make my ballot but I enjoyed it very much when I revisited it again for the 2000/s countdown.
Holden Pike
03-21-24, 01:29 PM
98092
Mother was #97 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 2000s. Mystic River was #65 on that list as well as #99 on the rebooted MoFo Top 100.
Citizen Rules
03-21-24, 01:53 PM
Hey finally I seen both of today's reveals. Seen both in various HoFs. Liked Mystic River pretty well.
stillmellow
03-21-24, 02:00 PM
OOF! That's a depressing double whammy.
I haven't seen Mystic River, but I know what happens in it. I saw Mother once and although it's good, I haven't been inclined to watch it again.
Both are a bit too depressing to make my list.
SpelingError
03-21-24, 02:08 PM
Haven't seen either film.
ScarletLion
03-21-24, 02:27 PM
I watched Mystic River the other day and it was watchable but I was very undwerhelmed. I don't really get on with Clint Eastwood films. Then I found out that Sean Penn grabbed a major acting award that year - while Bruno Ganz had nothing at the same event for his unbelievable portrayal of Adolf Hitler in Downfall. And that made me even more sad and bitter.
Mother is very good, in Bong's top 4 perhaps.
beelzebubble
03-21-24, 03:25 PM
I have seen Mystic River its a good movie but not on my list. I haven't seen Mother. I am not well versed in Asian cinema. I know the Koreans have been making excellent stuff for like thirty years now but I haven't seen very much of it.
Think both of today’s entries are great. I just didn’t consider either here.
John-Connor
03-21-24, 03:33 PM
Yea I just knew Mother was going to show up today. Of course nobody is going to believe me because I didn't post my guess. It feels like when you throw something into the garbage can from the other side of the room and nobody saw it. :p
Anyway, love both of today's films, no votes but Mother is on my top 100 neo-noirs list and I can be persuaded to place Mystic River on it as well If I read some convincing arguments that it's a neo.
SEEN 30/34
BALLOT 5/25
John-Connor
03-21-24, 03:34 PM
Actor Stats Pit Stop
https://0.soompi.io/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/17173814/The-Man-From-Nowhere.gif
Won Bin (The Man from Nowhere, Mother)
https://64.media.tumblr.com/9d893c0a4956693753b7c9abac3b4679/tumblr_nkt697VUEL1qedb29o2_500.gif
Dennis Hopper (The American Friend, Red Rock West)
https://64.media.tumblr.com/728e3c0be99c5d41c81d0714b7503a04/798a1d3150492709-0b/s540x810/5e54cc562a75cd1b62ce88ee01fe4a8bcfa95bef.gif
Robert Mitchum (The Friends of Eddie Coyle, Cape Fear)
I have seen Mystic River its a good movie but not on my list. I haven't seen Mother. I am not well versed in Asian cinema. I know the Koreans have been making excellent stuff for like thirty years now but I haven't seen very much of it.
I think Bong films are an excellent entry point. They all range from pretty good to great, and they're all fairly accessible.
CosmicRunaway
03-21-24, 04:05 PM
I haven't posted in a number of days because I haven't really had anything to say about any of the reveals. I've seen a couple of the films, but not recently enough to remember them particularly well. Today's a bit different though!
I nominated Mother in the Asian Hall of Fame, so it's probably not surprising that I had it on my list for this Countdown as well. This was what I said about it in the HoF:
https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=75448
Mother / 마더 (2009)
Directed By: Bong Joon-ho
Starring: Kim Hye-ja, Won Bin, Jin Goo
Mother is a slow moving film that is as much about it's titular character's growing desperation as it is about the murder mystery at its centre. It can be tense and unnerving at times, but as with many of Joon-ho's other films, it still contains the occasional dose of dark humour that is a little more obvious in the first act than later on. The film starts strong, then meanders a little in the middle, before closing with a strong finish. The first time I watched it, I found it so compelling that I didn't even notice that the central character was never given a name.
Kim Hye-ja's performance as the unnamed mother is simply fantastic. Her character's commitment to her son is the driving force behind the plot, and as such Hye-ja carries the bulk of the film's emotional weight on her shoulders. While the mystery she is attempting to unravel is interesting enough in its own right, it is the mother's plight that captivated me throughout the film. It's hard not to sympathize with the poor, single mother who, though a little overbearing, clearly loves her son.
The son's mental disability is never fully explained, but I don't think giving the audience his diagnosis would change anything. He's clearly a little naïve, and has issues with recollection and handling unexpected and stressful moments. The first scene at the police station is evidence that he'll agree with an incorrect version of events when someone else leads him into them, and that is all that is needed to set up his later situation. I appreciate the manner in which the story is told, and the unexpected turns it takes to set it apart from the typical thriller.
Seen: 17/34
My List: 4
05. Blue Ruin (2013) - #82
06. Mother (2009) - #67
10. The Man from Nowhere (2010) - #87
15. Infernal Affairs (2002) - #91
25. The Chaser (2008) - DNP 1-pointer
https://64.media.tumblr.com/90c9e17efc51a58ded8e0574bb089ede/d0a5b02a54b64332-d0/s540x810/35d126adc8123c4b3ea477df34c7a89222c33959.gif
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... MYSTIC RIVER
https://images.bauerhosting.com/legacy/empire-tmdb/films/322/images/77SSqcbjWooVLUndqjhGugA8eln.jpg
RT – 89%, IMDb – 7.9
Roger Ebert said:
"To see strong acting like this is exhilarating. In a time of flashy directors who slice and dice their films in a dizzy editing rhythm, it is important to remember that films can look and listen and attentively sympathize with their characters. Directors grow great by subtracting, not adding, and Eastwood does nothing for show, everything for effect." (read full document here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/mystic-river-2003))
Sckylar Gibby-Brown, from Giant Freakin Robot, said:
"Coming from the direction of Clint Eastwood, it’s no surprise that Mystic River is a gritty neo-noir crime drama. But it’s also so much more than that. This movie is a masterful exploration of guilt, grief, and the enduring impact of trauma." (read full review here (https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/crime-thriller-mystic-river-free-tubi-netflix.html))
dadgumblah said:
"The entire cast is perfection and there are more than a few surprises in the script [...] It takes its time, deals with the characters mostly over the mystery, which in this case works in spades. Best of all, I'm inspired to see more Sean Penn films. A highly recommended movie." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1770026-mystic-river.html))
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... MOTHER
https://filmwonk.files.wordpress.com/2020/03/mother-2009-still-03-kim-hye-ja-won-bin.jpg
RT – 96%, IMDb – 7.7
Roger Ebert said:
"The film is labyrinthine and deceptive, and not in a way we anticipate. It becomes a pleasure for the mind. Long after a conventional thriller would have its destination in plain sight, Mother is still penetrating our assumptions." (read full document here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/mother-2010))
Sofia Murell, from Surrounded by Films, said:
"Setting the mood as a film noir, Bong navigates through several genres simultaneously, from comedy to drama, in a way that goes from one genre to the other without notice, overlapping each other in some cases. Through a brilliant narrative, the protagonist’s development, and the exceptional acting of Kim Hye-ja, Mother navigates our judgement as well in terms of which character one should trust." (read full review here (https://surroundedbyfilms.wordpress.com/2020/04/09/mother-by-bong-joon-ho-mastering-suspense/))
Okay said:
"One of the best things about Mother is how well the drama and the humour mashes together, and it does so in such a captivating way, the director does an excellent job at making a hilarious yet heart clenching film." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1650574-mother.html))
Thursday Next
03-21-24, 04:37 PM
I don't really care for Mystic River at all.
WHITBISSELL!
03-21-24, 04:56 PM
I saw Mother once and although it's good, I haven't been inclined to watch it again. That means you're off the schneid. So is there anyone left on the scoreless list?
EDIT: Never mind. I'm thinking of the noir thread.
WHITBISSELL!
03-21-24, 05:02 PM
1 for 2 again. Have watched Mystic River and, once again, when Mother came out it sounded intriguing as hell but then ... never got around to it. Neither were on my ballot. I thought MR was okay but was expecting more judging from all the praise it received. I did like the book though.
17 of 34 seen.
I had Mother at #21. Mystic River is quite good too, but I never considered it.
My List:
11. The Friends of Eddie Coyle (#100)
12. Branded to Kill (#71)
18. Following (#84)
21. Mother (#67)
22. Purple Noon (#94)
cricket
03-21-24, 05:51 PM
I love Mystic River and did think of it for this countdown, but I couldn't get on board with it for the genre.
Saw Mother once and thought highly of it.
Everything by Bong Joon-Ho, even the stuff that seems, at first glance, like something destined to be campy and/or just dumb, always ends up being good. I have not seen Mother, but now I know I should.
Harry Lime
03-21-24, 06:55 PM
Both are good films that didn't come close to making my list, whether due to where I rank them or if they are actually film noirs...but I guess they are, at least technically. It's going to be interesting to look at the finished list and what made it and the overall noirness of the list.
AWARDS?
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTg1MzUwNDU4OV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNDA3Nzc3Mw@@._V1_.jpg
Mystic River received a truckload of nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:
Eight (8) Critics Choice Award nominations, including wins for Best Actor (Penn) and Best Supporting Actor (Robbins)
Eight (8) Satellite Award nominations, including a win for Best Screenplay (Helgeland)
Six (6) Academy Award nominations, including wins for Best Actor (Sean Penn) and Best Supporting Actor (Tim Robbins)
Five (5) Golden Globe Award nominations, including wins for Best Actor (Penn) and Best Supporting Actor (Robbins)
Four (4) BAFTA Award nominations, including Best Screenplay (Brian Helgeland)
Two (2) Cannes Film Festival Award nominations, including winning the Golden Coach Award (Clint Eastwood)
AWARDS?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a0/fb/ef/a0fbef77ac33e19b7121dac574bf496b.jpg
Mother also received a good bunch of nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:
Six (6) Grand Bell Award nominations, including a win for Best Supporting Actor (Jin Goo)
Six (6) Asian Film Award nominations, including a win for Best Screenwriter (Eun-kyo Park and Bong Joon Ho)
Five (5) Blue Dragon Award nominations, including a win for Best Film
Five (5) Cine21 Movie Awards, including Best Film and Best Director of the Year
Four (4) Chlotrudis Award nominations, including a win for Best Actress (Kim Hye-ja)
Three (3) Indiewire Critics Poll Award nominations, including Best Film
mrblond
03-21-24, 07:00 PM
#68. Mystic River (2003) - saw it in theatre when it was released. I found it kind of a mixed bag, that's why I've never tried to revisit it since then. In addition, I was a bit confused by its double male-acting Oscar awards.
3.5-
66/100
-----
#67. Mother (2009) - saw it couple of months ago because it was mentioned in the preliminary thread. A mixed bag too. Very nice acting by the main actress for what - some meaningless drama flick. There are thousands of drama stories out there. Should they all be turned into movies? I feel, this film had the only purpose to show exactly the main actress' acting, nothing more.
3.0+
64/100
Everything by Bong Joon-Ho, even the stuff that seems, at first glance, like something destined to be campy and/or just dumb, always ends up being good. I have not seen Mother, but now I know I should.
Most definitely. He's batting 1.000 as far as I'm concerned.
rauldc14
03-21-24, 09:23 PM
Mystic River was my number 1! So obviously glad that it made it. Just one of my favorite films period.
Citizen Rules
03-21-24, 10:40 PM
Mystic River was my number 1! So obviously glad that it made it. Just one of my favorite films period.Didn't you nominate Mystic River in a HoF once? I just checked and I don't see where you did but I swear it was your nom and that's why I watched it.
PHOENIX74
03-22-24, 12:39 AM
68. Mystic River - Last watched October, '21. A tragic event in the past reverberates all the way into the present day for three men who were once boyhood chums. Both Sean Penn and Tim Robbins won Oscars for a couple of real powerhouse performances that are memorable enough to recall clearly. Kevin Bacon did not need to emote as much as the other two - he's yet to be nominated for an Oscar in his career, so c'mon Kevin, times a running out (Penn has two, Robbins just the one.) Clint Eastwood staring into the abyss, confronting something that's not often seen on the big screen, and making a fine film that I rate really highly (Clint has 4 Oscars, scoring Best Picture/Director doubles with Million Dollar Baby and Unforgiven.) Keep your eye out for Eli Wallach as a Liquor Store Owner. The end of this film is really heartbreaking, and sticks with me.
67. Mother - Last watched Feb '23. A mother's single-minded determination to prove her son innocent of murder drives this brilliant Bong Joon-ho film I've also seen several times. Kim Hye-ja's performance is simply marvelous and straddles a fine line between comedy and pathos, going to absurd lengths - mostly venturing down dead-ends and finding "valuable evidence" that turns out to be nothing. Once you hear about the tragic history of what happened between her and her son in the past, you'll be stunned. Bong Joon-ho obviously makes the most out of everything that can be mined for laughs, but there's a tragic, dark heart to this funny film. I like all of this guy's movies, but Mother is up at the top for me, probably third after Parasite and Memories of Murder - which most people probably consider his best two films.
No votes though
Seen : 19/34
Never heard of : 5/34
Heard of but not seen : 10/34
rauldc14
03-22-24, 10:46 AM
Didn't you nominate Mystic River in a HoF once? I just checked and I don't see where you did but I swear it was your nom and that's why I watched it.
Probably personal rec HOF. I have thought about it for a general quite a bit
5lists59pointsKiller Joe (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/73567-killer-joe.html)Director
William Friedkin, 2011
Starring
Matthew McConaughey, Emile Hirsch, Thomas Haden Church, Gina Gershon
3lists60pointsStrange Days (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/281-strange-days.html)Director
Kathryn Bigelow, 1995
Starring
Ralph Fiennes, Angela Bassett, Juliette Lewis, Tom Sizemore
TRAILERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYcUUXq6Kd8
Killer Joe - When a debt puts him on the crossfire, a young man hires a corrupt cop to kill his evil mother in order to collect the insurance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_CRzVM1GuM
Strange Days - When a former cop turned street-hustler discovers evidence of a potential murder, he pairs up with a bodyguard friend to help find the killer. But what he finds is a vast conspiracy involving the police force he once worked for.
Strange Days has been on my radar for a very long time, but for some reason, I've never gotten to it.
Killer Joe is such a weird film because of its darkly humorous tone and its bizarre ending. But regardless of how those two things land for you, it's a film that will certainly stick with you; maybe for laughs, maybe for other reason. I'm not that crazy about Emile Hirsch as the lead, but Matthew McConaughey easily steals the film. He's so good that the film is worth a watch if only for his performance. I had this at #20.
SEEN: 20/36
MY BALLOT: 5/25
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19.
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21.
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24.
25.
I've been thinking about watching Killer Joe for a while now,but still haven't gotten around to it. I've seen Strange Days and rated it a 6/10. My review of Strange Days: "A couple good moments,but much of this doesn't work for me. Performances are hit and miss. It also felt longer than it needed to be."
Seen: 26/36
Citizen Rules
03-22-24, 02:07 PM
One from my ballot! I had at #7 Strange Days. I haven't seen it in years, make that two decades.
Holden Pike
03-22-24, 02:21 PM
98143
Strange Days was #81 on the MoFo Top 100 Science Fiction Films.
Iroquois
03-22-24, 02:54 PM
it was also #9 on the "directed by women" list.
no votes. could've sworn strange days was on my ballot, but it would appear not. pity, i think it's definitely a contender for bigelow's masterpiece that perfectly straddles the line between the pulpiness of her early features and the more overtly prestigious work she'd do afterwards. seen killer joe once and liked it, but never seem to be in the mood to revisit it (which is honestly understandable given how...provocative it is).
beelzebubble
03-22-24, 03:04 PM
I haven't seen either of them, but they seem intriguing.
Thursday Next
03-22-24, 03:34 PM
Strange Days ended up at #3 on my ballot.
KILLER JOE
(2011, Friedkin)
https://i.imgur.com/mjOAJr6.jpg
"What did you think this is, Let's Make a Deal? This is serious business you're fu¢king with here, boy."
My first watch of 2013 couldn't have been more bizarre. Killer Joe walks a fine line between a dark comedy and a sick thriller. The film follows Chris (Emile Hirsch), a young Texan drug dealer who, after falling in debt with some thugs, decides to murder his alcoholic mother to collect the insurance money. He then recruits the help of his father, Ansel (Thomas Haden Church) and his current wife, Sharla (Gina Gershon). Although they try not to involve her, Chris young and naive sister, Dottie (Juno Temple), also agrees to the deed. To achieve their goal, they hire the titular character, Joe Cooper (Matthew McCounaghey), a detective whose side job is as a contract killer. When Chris can't come up with Joe's $25,000 fee up front, Joe asks for Dottie as a retainer. And from there, the plot unravels in what ends up being a chaotic mess.
I have to say, I rented this expecting it to be more of a suspense/thriller. I never thought the film would end up being what it is. And what a bizarre and twisted film it ended up being. I'm still not sure what to make of it, but it sure wasn't boring. The film gloats in its own chaotic and messy nature, as if there were no bridles to hold it back. Depending on what you expect, or how receptive you are, this might be good or bad.
For starters, during the first hour or so, I thought most of the acting was uneven. Everyone from Hirsch and Haden Church, to Gershon interacted and behaved in a sort of self-conscious way, screaming in what seemed to me as unnatural or awkward. Now, on hindsight, I wonder if it was part of the darkly comedic tone of the film. Temple was the only one of the lead family that was pretty good from the beginning. Her performance as the innocent and childlike Dottie was pretty good, without limiting herself to the usual crutches of this type of characters.
But either way, the standout of the film is Matthew McConaughey as the titular character. McConaughey completely owns the role of Killer Joe in what I think is one, if not the best performance I've seen of him. His character is a contradiction, in every single way. A police detective, who happens to be a contract killer on the side. A murderer who sometimes investigates his own murderers. A man of order in the middle of the chaos, that sometimes he is a part of. McConaughey gives so many layers to Joe, as we see him charmed by Dottie one moment, and then intimidating Chris and Ansel. As reprehensible as his actions might be, he maintains a sense of order in everything he does: his punctuality, his manners, the way he talks. His "employers", in the other hand, are a total mess in all those same aspects.
The climatic scene of the film is a tense dinner at the trailer of our characters which brings to the surface some of this contradictions. In this scene, all the characters collide in one of the most twisted and intense scenes I've seen recently, as Joe confronts the intentions and motivations of each of them. Again, we have to wonder, who is the bad guy then? who is the killer? Despite all the serious ramifications, there are moments in the scene where I was just chuckling and asking myself "WTF?", highlighted by the awkwardly anti-climatic ending. But even if you chuckle or shake your head at it all, I think it was worth it.
Initially, I wasn't sure what to think of the film and didn't grade it. But as time has passed by, I can say I really liked it. I think it's worth a watch for anyone who's ready for something odd, or for a great performance from an underrated actor.
Grade: 3.5
^Sharing an old review I wrote for Killer Joe back when I first saw it. I readjusted some bits so I could add it as a "review" on MoFo, but for the most part, that's how I felt back in 2013. If you ask me now, I would probably bump that rating a notch.
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... KILLER JOE
https://i.imgur.com/mjOAJr6.jpg
RT – 80%, IMDb – 6.7
Roger Ebert said:
"William Friedkin's Killer Joe is one hell of a movie. It left me speechless. I can't say I loved it. I can't say I hated it. It is expertly directed, flawlessly cast and written with merciless black humor by Tracy Letts." (read full document here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/killer-joe-2012))
Josh Larsen said:
"A grindhouse film noir for the NC-17 era, Killer Joe is a rough go. The movie wears its sleaze like a ratty stole dug out from a bin at the 'thrifty'. If you get a thrill from such stuff, you might consider it a scuzzy masterpiece. If you expect a little more from your movies, even your sordid ones, Killer Joe thankfully offers a handful of other elements that actually add up to something." (read full review here (https://larsenonfilm.com/killer-joe))
JayDee said:
"A slow first half hurts it but a series of strong performances, a stylish aesthetic and real verve ensure it finishes strongly. It is actually a film I could imagine myself possibly growing to like more on repeat viewings. The only problem however is trying to imagine when I'll next feel up to subjecting myself to its vile ways." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1214689-killer-joe.html))
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... STRANGE DAYS
https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=24758&stc=1&d=1459470551
RT – 68%, IMDb – 7.2
Roger Ebert said:
"Bigelow is able to exploit the idea of what is happening; she forces her audience to deal with the screen reality, instead of allowing us to process it as routine 'action'. The plot is in the noir tradition, with updates out of recent headlines." (read full document here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/strange-days-1995))
Tom Joliffe, from Flickering Myth, said:
"Though, bulky in its current form, it couldn’t afford to delve much deeper, and ultimately this is more of a Dystopian fantasy, with shades of cyberpunk and neo-noir." (read full review here (https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2024/01/a-must-watch-new-years-movie-strange-days/))
TheUsualSuspect said:
"Bigelow gives the film a gritty sense of realism, yet no one in this film feels normal. Everything has a heightened sense, which gives the film this otherworldly feel. I felt like I could have lived in this world and the tech presented to the viewer could very much be real. The look and feel of the film are mostly told through fashion a lot of these characters wear. Nothing feels normal here and nothing should." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2111813-strange-days.html))
Everything is fine :laugh:
I want to see Killer Joe---but all I know about it (and find very funny) was Friedkin's hilariously casual dismissal of the fact that the camera crew is totally visible in one seen on the reflection of a truck.
CosmicRunaway
03-22-24, 04:43 PM
Another film from my list made the Countdown! Strange Days was my #8. I'm oddly not sure what to say about it though, other than the fact that Ralph Fiennes was really charismatic in it. I know I found it really engaging despite the runtime - which seemed much longer a few years back, even though it's a fairly standard length now haha.
Strange Days has been on my radar for a very long time, but for some reason, I've never gotten to it.
I haven't checked in awhile, but isn't Strange Days one of those films that just doesn't seem to be on any streaming service? You might want to watch it while you still can, before it becomes lost media. :eek:
Seen: 18/36
My List: 5
05. Blue Ruin (2013) - #82
06. Mother (2009) - #67
08. Strange Days (1995) - #65
10. The Man from Nowhere (2010) - #87
15. Infernal Affairs (2002) - #91
25. The Chaser (2008) - DNP 1-pointer
https://64.media.tumblr.com/efd5dfea4d958597d35cacf9d6599fda/978e7566925a31f4-dd/s400x600/96f5c85d5b45ebcb866f2fbf0ff2958bdd09b889.gifv
Hey Fredrick
03-22-24, 04:45 PM
Mystic River and Killer Joe both made my ballot at #'s 12 and 22. I don't know how neo-noir Mystic River really is but it was eligible and it's one of the better films of the 00's and probably my second fav from Eastwood so I had to put it somewhere. Just outside the top ten seemed right. Kind of a downer flick, I loved the acting even if it has the rep for being a little too over the top at times. Vigilante justice at it's finest.
Killer Joe we saw in the theater and it was a weird experience. It seemed like a lot of folks wanted to laugh but weren't sure if they should, maybe waiting for somebody to break the seal and then when it ended it was just....quiet. Nobody was saying anything on the way out. It was strange. I love really dark humor so this was right up my alley and it gets better every time I see it. Everybody was great in this, the ending was both horrifying and hilarious and what did end up happening? Dottie?
I haven't checked in awhile, but isn't Strange Days one of those films that just doesn't seem to be on any streaming service? You might want to watch it while you still can, before it becomes lost media. :eek:
Yes, it was pretty much absent from streaming services for several years, but I see it is now available on Max. Plus, there are always alternate... ways :shifty:
Anyway, I'm also going back to 1995 cause I remember picking it up at the video store several times but never renting it out for some reason. It's weird cause it seems like the kind of thing I would enjoy.
cricket
03-22-24, 05:01 PM
This is probably my favorite pair that has ever shown up on any countdown. Killer Joe is my favorite film out of the last 20 or so years. Strange Days is also a big favorite of mine but I didn't consider it for this genre.
1. Killer Joe (#66)
9. Mona Lisa (#78)
12. Body Double (#69)
15. The Driver (#79)
21. Manhunter (#77)
1/1 again today on the seen meter. Briefly considered Strange Days, but didn't think it had enough Neo cred to make the cut. Need to see Killer Joe!
AWARDS?
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BYmY1ZmFkODktZGRiNi00YzQ5LTk0YTItYmRhOGM0ZGQ5YjNiXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyOTc5MDI5NjE@._V1_.jpg
Killer Joe received the following nominations and awards:
Five (5) Saturn Award nominations, including a win for Best Actor (Matthew McConaughey) and Bes Independent Film
Three (3) Golden Trailer Award nominations, including Trashiest Trailer and Most Original Poster
Two (2) Venice Film Festival nominations, including winning the Golden Mouse (William Friedkin)
Two (2) Chlotrudis Award nominations, including Best Ensemble and Best Screenplay (Tracy Letts)
One (1) Independent Spirit Award nomination for Best Male Lead (McConaughey)
One (1) Munich Film Festival ARRI Award nomination for Best International Film
AWARDS?
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/59021a94c534a5e9a182017c/1557943413219-8WS3MV0UGXY90HUUEUDP/strange-days.jpg
Strange Days received the following nominations and awards:
Five (5) Saturn Award nominations, including a win for Best Actress (Angela Bassett) and Best Director (Kathryn Bigelow)
One (1) Chicago Film Critics Association Award for Best Cinematography (Matthew F. Leonetti)
WHITBISSELL!
03-22-24, 07:41 PM
2 for 2! I remember liking both Killer Joe and Strange Days. I thought McConaughey and Angela Bassett (respectively) were the standout performances. Neither made my ballot.
19 of 36 seen.
Little Ash
03-22-24, 08:14 PM
Fatal Attraction - While there's an overlap between erotic thrillers and neo-noir, I wouldn't consider part of the overlap. But that might just be my current mental template. It is interesting looking back on this and seeing it worked with audiences, but Show Girls didn't, since they were both so over the top. Admittedly, I still don't know how I feel about Show Girls, and it might simply be the fact the former was an erotic thriller and the latter was a melodrama.
Body Double - I'd have to double check my ballot, but actually I don't think I considered any erotic thrillers. I know someone IRL who really loves this movie (and that era of De Palma), though I think they love Hitchcock even more. I'm not sure how I feel about it. Granted, I've also spent the last 12 years trying to adjust to Vertigo.
Mystic River - One of those movies I heard the title of over the years, but if you pressed me to guess what it was about, I would draw a blank. I thought I heard it in the same sentence as Cold Mountain, so I probably would have guessed they might have been a similar subject (not that I have a good sense what Cold Mountain is about either), so I would have been way off. Apparently it was directed by Clint Eastwood. I don't know if there's been a Clint Eastwood directed movie that I particularly love, but to each their own.
Mother - I enjoy Bong Joon-ho movies, but I seem to enjoy them less than other people. Haven't seen this one though. The plot synopsis always made me think of Poetry, which also not actively seek this one out, because it would probably do it no favor if my mind was comparing the two.
Killer Joe - This one didn't cross my mind to consider for the list. Not as a, "not a neo-noir," consideration. It just didn't cross my mind when thinking of possible neo-noirs. I'm sure I would have at least considered it. No idea if it would have made my ballot, but I'm sure I would have at least considered it.
Strange Days - I think I watched five minutes of this back in the 90s after it hit the cable channels. Given that it basically
ETA: re-reading my post from the middle of last night and I have no idea what thought I just randomly stopped in the middle of, right there. I think, "Given that it basically disappeared from availability for a long while there, I wish I had. Though, given I was a teenager at the time, I wouldn't want to rely on my memory of it, either."
SpelingError
03-22-24, 08:45 PM
I haven't seen Killer Joe. I like Strange Days quite a bit, but it didn't make my ballot.
SpelingError
03-22-24, 08:46 PM
One from my ballot! I had at #7 Strange Days. I haven't seen it in years, make that two decades.
I definitely didn't expect for you to be a fan of it.
Citizen Rules
03-22-24, 08:50 PM
I definitely didn't expect for you to be a fan of it.yeah i know what you mean, i seen it long time ago, i might not even like it now, who knows
Miss Vicky
03-22-24, 10:47 PM
I've been away dealing with some personal stuff for the last few days, so I have a little catching up to do. Of the last several reveals, I've only seen Mystic River, Strange Days, and Killer Joe. I thought Mystic River was really good, but I don't think it ever came to mind while compiling my ballot. I have a lot of respect for Strange Days, but it just isn't my kind of movie and didn't get my vote.
Killer Joe shouldn't be my kind of movie. I usually can't stand movies about terrible people doing terrible things to each other, but something about this one just works and it's a whole lot of fun. I voted for it at #17.
My Ballot:
3. The Man From Nowhere (#87)
12. Shutter Island (#86)
17. Killer Joe (2011) (#66)
stillmellow
03-23-24, 12:23 AM
I've never heard of Killer Joe. I'll definitely check it out. I've heard of Strange Days, but I had no idea it had Noir elements. I'll check that out as well.
Seen 17 of 36
PHOENIX74
03-23-24, 03:18 AM
66. Killer Joe - I've seen Killer Joe a few times - pretty dark, unusual kind of caper. Leans a lot towards black comedy - although a lot of the laughter comes from discomfort at the extremes the characters go to for their own ends. One of William Friedkin's last movies, and one I haven't caught up with in a few years. One where miscreants get themselves in deeper, and deeper, and deeper.
65. Strange Days - Got to see this through a Hall of Fame I believe. Modern technology has done this film no favours, seeing as it's set in 1999, and the tech in the actual film is still way, way ahead of what we have today. I'd have set this around 2050. Never mind. Anyway, mind-sharing devices and software lead to one intrepid character played by Ralph Fiennes having a copy of a murder on his hands. Cue all kinds of mayhem and action. I remember a lot of running around and violence - and I think Fiennes was quite good in this.
Neither of those were under consideration regarding my 25
Seen : 21/36
John-Connor
03-23-24, 06:03 AM
Alright alright alright, Killer Joe is a crazy arthouse/art-trailer-park, deprived of moral, filled with chicken leg oral film by William Fried chick in. With a killer performance by pre-Oscar McConaughey.
SEEN: 32/36
BALLOT: 5/25
Harry Lime
03-23-24, 09:33 AM
I did not realize that Killer Joe was so well regarded in this community. I thought it was good but to be honest I forgot it existed until now.
Strange Days is good as well but I recall it starting out better than ending. Great cast and interesting concept, plus it gets the sci-fi/future (1999!) 5% bump from me.
I might be out for most of the day, so "early" reveals in a while.
4lists60pointsGone Baby Gone (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/4771-gone-baby-gone.html)Director
Ben Affleck, 2007
Starring
Casey Affleck, Michelle Monaghan, Morgan Freeman, Ed Harris
5lists60pointsKlute (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/466-klute.html)Director
Alan J. Pakula, 1971
Starring
Jane Fonda, Donald Sutherland, Charles Cioffi, Roy Scheider
TRAILERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyT0_wfQR2Y
Gone Baby Gone - Two private detectives in the Boston area are hired to investigate the kidnapping of a little girl, which ultimately leads them to into a professional and personal crisis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S4rxnjwFDg
Klute - A detective in the Pennsylvania area is joined by a New York City call girl as they investigate the disappearance of a business executive, who may also be stalking her.
I remember liking Gone Baby Gone quite a bit, but it didn't come to mind. I should probably rewatch it.
I've never seen Klute.
SEEN: 21/38
MY BALLOT: 5/25
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19.
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21.
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24.
25.
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... GONE BABY GONE
https://cinefreaks.net/2023/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/Desaparecio-una-noche-La-calidad-por-sobre-el-prejuicio-01-696x392.jpg
RT – 94%, IMDb – 7.6
Roger Ebert said:
"What I like about the movie is the way Ben Affleck and his brother, both lifelong Bostonians, understand the rhythm of a society in which people not only live in one another's pockets but are trying to slash their way out." (read full document here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/gone-baby-gone-2007))
Cynthia Fuchs, from Pop Matters, said:
"Part noir, part moralizing, and part urban-malaisey, the movie offers an assembly of seedy sorts who make Patrick’s quest look increasingly hopeless but also ineffably gallant." (read full review here (https://www.popmatters.com/gone-baby-gone-ben-affleck))
Yoda said:
"Gone Baby Gone [...] refuses to be pegged. The audience is alternatingly made to believe that the film is about despair, redemption, and agonizing choices, as layer upon layer is stripped away, revealing an increasingly complex plot that takes on a new meaning and gives the film a new message with every reveal." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1081603-gone_baby_gone.html))
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... KLUTE
https://filmforum.org/do-not-enter-or-modify-or-erase/client-uploads/KLUTE_thumbnail.png
RT – 93%, IMDb – 7.1
Roger Ebert said:
"In Klute you don't have two attractive acting vacuums reciting speeches at each other. With Fonda and Sutherland, you have actors who understand and sympathize with their characters, and you have a vehicle worthy of that sort of intelligence. So the fact that the thriller stuff doesn't always work isn't so important." (read full document here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/klute-1971))
Karli Lukas, from Senses of Cinema, said:
"An interesting hybrid of film noir, it pits hardboiled cynicism against warm romanticism. Its three main characters project their frustrations and insecurities onto their surrounding environment as they succumb to the pressure of trying to keep their secreted desires in check." (read full review here (https://www.sensesofcinema.com/2001/cteq/klute/))
Daniel M said:
"This film however is like no other noir, much more focussed as a character study and also a study of the dark underworld in which they are involved. Like our title character, we are drawn into this world slowly; with not much to go by he is soon shown the unsympathetic workings of the life of Bree." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1138493-klute.html))
John W Constantine
03-23-24, 10:15 AM
Seen both, like both, recommend both, didn't vote for both.
I've seen Gone Baby Gone twice and thought it blends the right amount of suspense, thrills, and mystery in an effective and smart way.. The acting is quite good and it has a really strong ensemble with no weak performances. Gone Baby Gone made my ballot at # 21. Klute I have seen once and did not like at all, rating it a 5/10.
Seen: 28/38
Seen Gone Baby Gone a few times over the years. I really love it but didn’t consider it for my list. I don’t know exactly where the line between neo noir and crime drama is in my pea brain, but I did draw it while making my list. Could be different next time, but here we are.
Watched Klute a couple years ago and didn’t care for it much at all.
Little Ash
03-23-24, 10:32 AM
Gone Baby Gone - My mind initially thought this was Gone Girl when I read the title and wondered how that would be considered neo-noirs. I have seen neither of the "Gone" movies (unrelated) I just mentioned.
Klute - A number of 70s political thrillers have been on my to eventually watch list. This is one of them. I don't know if any of them crossed my mind that they might be considered neo-noir. I don't think they did.
crumbsroom
03-23-24, 10:53 AM
Klute is a banger. Must have had it somewhere on my list. Probably pretty high up, if I was being smart.
Gone Baby Gone is the kind of movie that seems genetically designed to not matter to me. It exists and I'm sure it still exists and I'm already half asleep considering those facts.
rauldc14
03-23-24, 10:54 AM
And......Gone Baby Gone was my number 2!!!! And that's also one of my favorite films of all time
crumbsroom
03-23-24, 10:55 AM
I have seen neither of the "Gone" movies (unrelated) I just mentioned.
This is acceptable. One is irrelevant and the other one sucks.
Klute - A number of 70s political thrillers have been on my to eventually watch list. This is one of them.
Unacceptable!
stillmellow
03-23-24, 10:58 AM
I've heard of both, but haven't gotten around to watching either yet.
Harry Lime
03-23-24, 11:20 AM
I didn't care too much for Gone Girl Gone but it's okay I will give it that. Klute is one of those that have been on my watchlist for at least ten years. I'm getting closer to watching it I swear.
cricket
03-23-24, 11:29 AM
I was just talking to my wife about Gone Baby Gone this morning after we watched Casey Affleck in Oppenheimer a couple of days ago. I was telling her she needs to see it again. We saw it soon after it came out and neither one of us cared for it. We must have been drunk or fighting because when I watched it again for a recent HoF I absolutely loved it. I fully admit that it appears that I have a strong bias towards Boston based films.
Saw Klute once and I didn't like it.
1. Killer Joe (#66)
3. Gone Baby Gone (#64)
9. Mona Lisa (#78)
12. Body Double (#69)
15. The Driver (#79)
21. Manhunter (#77)
John-Connor
03-23-24, 11:31 AM
https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/gPU9UQyER8LOWmBqBFVxq0TttqM.jpg
Klute is ok and on my neo noir top hundred but in the 80-100 section. Didn't appreciate Jane Fonda's hair style in this one. Donald Sutherland played as Donald Sutherland. :D And Roy Scheider is pretty good as 'bad guy'. He played an exceptional pimp in Klute and we might also see him as a convincing crime lord later on in Romeo is Bleeding.
No votes today.
SEEN: 34/38
BALLOT: 5/25
Little Ash
03-23-24, 12:01 PM
Unacceptable!
If you look at my political thrillers blindspots, it's kind of wild. It's like like I haven't watched any of the big ones:
The Parallax View, Three Days of the Condor, Marathon Man, The Day of the Jackal. What's weird is, it's not like it's a genre that doesn't appeal to me either. I have no good reason why I've never done a deep dive into them.
I have seen Blow-Up and Blow-Out though. Neither of them 70s. I've had a bit of a movie malaise the last few months. Just working through them might be what I need after getting through my blindspots of Ken Russell films leaving the criterion channel soon.
Thursday Next
03-23-24, 12:03 PM
I didn't like Gone Baby Gone at all.
Citizen Rules
03-23-24, 12:41 PM
I've not seen Klute, I would like to catch it one of these days.
I did see Gone Baby Gone in the 31st HoF and liked it. I wrote this:
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Flh6.googleusercontent.com%2Fproxy%2FD9kArOcaxnAhfZ2UQ9yIYW6oUEyFmTk7QDwcdPdvuHaVKam 2veIBrQzzJzWv6XqiezRoYhpyzNaygDrlKzEajRYDUWI0kVQ-p47Qw1bfRDhf8MZxNfst5Wp3rq73ODQ8ajimmra9AWS9skGCU_l1dA%3Ds0-d&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=d807fa927f514a166da2c5def9b78b96c5341e23bc6e027de113275bc1c6241d&ipo=imagesGone Baby Gone ( 2007)
*spoilers*
Amy Ryan rocked her role! She flat out was my favorite in this movie and I wish she had more scenes. Kudos to Casey Affleck who's one of my favorite currently working actors...he was perfectly cast here. While I'm praising the cast, a big shout out to Morgan Freeman and Ed Harris too. The only misstep in casting was Michelle Monaghan. Maybe it's not her fault as her character was basically tacked on and she wasn't really utilized until the end scene were Patrick (Casey Affleck) has a choice to be made.
I liked that idea of the choice between doing what might seem right even though it's against the law...or following the law because it is what's legally right. I liked the way the film wrapped with Patrick choosing to follow the law which causes his girlfriend to leave him. It seemed like an appropriate choice for a young person to make with his strong belief in ethics. But being older I can relate to Morgan Freeman's idea of the letter of the law isn't always the way to achieve the most fairest results. I liked the conundrum the movie presented.
I loved the use of the urban settings in Boston and what appeared to me to be real people from the streets of Boston. Or maybe they were actors who just looked authentic. Either way the film had a nice, real vibe to it. I liked that.
Citizen Rules
03-23-24, 12:43 PM
I didn't like Gone Baby Gone at all.Can I ask why? You sound very adamant, so just wondering if you objected to something done in the film or just flat out didn't like it?
Iroquois
03-23-24, 12:47 PM
no votes. have seen both films once. remember thinking gone baby gone was fine but the kind of film where i would get all i was going to get out of it in a single viewing. definitely appreciated klute more and i have been meaning to revisit it.
Miss Vicky
03-23-24, 02:07 PM
I like Gone Baby Gone, but I don't think I even thought about it while making my ballot.
Thursday Next
03-23-24, 02:11 PM
Can I ask why? You sound very adamant, so just wondering if you objected to something done in the film or just flat out didn't like it?
It didn't engage me much but mostly it was just the plausibility of it all. It's been too long since I saw it to get into specifics but I remember not liking it due to that.
Citizen Rules
03-23-24, 02:18 PM
It didn't engage me much but mostly it was just the plausibility of it all. It's been too long since I saw it to get into specifics but I remember not liking it due to that.Ah I see, thanks. I do that too, if I find a movie unplausible it takes me out of the story and I disengage.
WHITBISSELL!
03-23-24, 02:19 PM
Have seen both Gone Baby Gone and Klute and thought they were okay. I feel no great urge to watch them again. I did like Dennis Lehane's novels more than the movie adaptations of GBG or Mystic River.
Neither were on my ballot.
Have seen 21 of the 38.
beelzebubble
03-23-24, 02:44 PM
If you look at my political thrillers blindspots, it's kind of wild. It's like like I haven't watched any of the big ones:
The Parallax View, Three Days of the Condor, Marathon Man, The Day of the Jackal. What's weird is, it's not like it's a genre that doesn't appeal to me either. I have no good reason why I've never done a deep dive into them.
I have seen Blow-Up and Blow-Out though. Neither of them 70s. I've had a bit of a movie malaise the last few months. Just working through them might be what I need after getting through my blindspots of Ken Russell films leaving the criterion channel soon.
Not for nothing but Klute is not a “political thriller.” It’s about a prostitute being stalked by a john, who is a corporate exec and the private detective looking for the guy.
SpelingError
03-23-24, 02:51 PM
I haven't seen Gone Baby Gone. Klute is very good, but it didn't make my ballot.
crumbsroom
03-23-24, 03:42 PM
The Parallax View, Three Days of the Condor, Marathon Man, The Day of the Jackal.
Also all good. Particularly Day of the Jackal. But all good.
AWARDS?
https://www.premiere.fr/sites/default/files/styles/scale_crop_1280x720/public/2020-10/g.jpg
Gone Baby Gone received a good bunch of nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:
One (1) Academy Award nomination for Best Supporting Actress (Amy Ryan)
One (1) Golden Globe nomination for Best Supporting Actress (Ryan)
Two (2) Indiewire Critics Poll Award nominations, including Best First Feature (Ben Affleck)
Two (2) Satellite Award nominations, including a win for Best Supporting Actress (Ryan)
One (1) Empire Award nomination for Best Thriller
AWARDS?
https://quadcinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/klute-1400x788.jpg
Klute received several nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:
Two (2) Academy Award nominations, including a win for Best Actress (Jane Fonda)
Two (2) Golden Globe Award nominations, including a win for Best Actress (Fonda)
Two (2) Image Awards for Best Actor (Donald Sutherland) and Best Actress (Fonda)
One (1) BAFTA Award nomination for Best Actress (Fonda)
One (1) Edgar Allan Poe Award nomination for Best Motion Picture
2/2 seen for these last reveals but no votes.
I recall liking Gone Baby Gone, but it just didn't cross my mind as a neo-noir as I compiled my ballot. I am due to see that one again, I think. I struggled to get through Klute, or maybe I didn't even finish it... I forget. I can't stand Jane Fonda.
Up until recently, I thought Klute was a comedy or something along that vein. Never looked for it, but the title just sounded like "klutz", I guess? I think it was last year or the year before that I actually read the synopsis and went like "Oh..."
crumbsroom
03-23-24, 05:31 PM
I can't stand Jane Fonda.
Does. Not. Compute.
Now, I'm not saying I'd want to have dinner with her, but on screen, when she was firing on all cylinders, she is up there with the best,
crumbsroom
03-23-24, 05:34 PM
Up until recently, I thought Klute was a comedy or something along that vein. Never looked for it, but the title just sounded like "klutz", I guess? I think it was last year or the year before that I actually read the synopsis and went like "Oh..."
See it.
Just don't expect any laughs. It's zero percent funny.
mrblond
03-23-24, 09:45 PM
#63. Klute (1971)
This film been for many years on my to watch list and I finally saw it about two years ago. It turned to be nothing about nothing featuring very well portrayed role by Jane Fonda. So high expectations, one more time smashed by the typical mediocrity of the New Hollywood movement.
I rate it one star for the movie + two bonus stars only because of Fonda.
3-
57/100
PHOENIX74
03-24-24, 12:10 AM
Another two really good movies that weren't quite able to break into my 25
64. Gone Baby Gone - I've seen this numerous times - and I'm a big fan of Casey Affleck, and the Boston/Massachusetts-affiliated Affleck family. After having written about it so extensively before I'll just say that it's a great mystery flick with a knock-out performance from Amy Ryan, who won numerous awards for featuring as Helene McCready, the neglectful mother whose young daughter goes missing. The movie offers up a very interesting moral quandary, and will have you debating with yourself over what the right course of action really was. Do you stick to the letter of the law and what's right, or do what's wrong if that produces a more emotionally satisfying result that's better for all involved? It's a real tough one to wrap your head around, and you might find yourself disappointed with the film's protagonist and what he chooses.
63. Klute - I've only ever seen this once, and it's one of those films that really is due another watch to refresh my mind. Still, I clearly remember the two main characters - Donald Sutherland's calm, steady and poised John Klute, and Jane Fonda's troubled, experienced yet independent call girl Bree Daniels. The film is another great example of neo noir in any easily definable sense, being something of a throwback to those classic noir films of old. The central mystery takes it's characters down a road that leads to paranoia and lurking danger. Jane Fonda won an Oscar for her efforts, and Klute is now an old classic itself.
Seen 23/38 - but still only one from my list!
Little Ash
03-24-24, 01:55 AM
Not for nothing but [b]Klute[b] is not a “political thriller.” It’s about a prostitute being stalked by a john, who is a corporate exec and the private detective looking for the guy.
I must have seen it listed as a thriller, and since it was from the 70s, cataloged it as must be a political thriller.
Anyhow, I watched it. It's pretty good. I can see why crumbs loves it. A movie about two people struggling against their base implies, which are not to connect to people for a variety of reasons, despite obviously needing someone else in their life.
Holden Pike
03-24-24, 09:46 AM
98164
Gone Baby Gone was #66 on the MoFo Top 100 of the Millennium.
LAMb EELYAK
03-24-24, 12:55 PM
Up until recently, I thought Klute was a comedy or something along that vein. Never looked for it, but the title just sounded like "klutz", I guess? I think it was last year or the year before that I actually read the synopsis and went like "Oh..."
Years ago, I heard Gary Ross say, "Donald Sutherland, I've admired since Klute" and I thought he was saying "Clue".
John-Connor
03-24-24, 03:07 PM
Have you seen this man?
98168
Citizen Rules
03-24-24, 04:02 PM
He's getting his teeth cleaned:D
Been out with the kids all day; I'm still out, so reveals might come in an hour or two. Apologies for leaving you all dressed and waiting.
SpelingError
03-24-24, 05:34 PM
I think we should cancel Thief. This is unacceptable.
I think we should cancel Thief. This is unacceptable.Seconded.
Crime families > Real families
WHITBISSELL!
03-24-24, 06:04 PM
https://i.imgflip.com/8kdkhb.jpg
Me, opening MoFo to find this rebellion...
https://tattle.life/attachments/1681148914559-gif.2090912/
6lists61pointsThe Killing of a Chinese Bookie (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/32040-the-killing-of-a-chinese-bookie.html)Director
John Cassavetes, 1976
Starring
Ben Gazzara, Timothy Carey, Seymour Cassel, Robert Phillips
5lists62pointsThe Dark Knight (https://www.movieforums.com/movies/155-the-dark-knight.html)Director
Christopher Nolan, 2008
Starring
Christian Bale, Heath Ledger, Michael Caine, Gary Oldman
TRAILERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRrj60C24Y0
The Killing of a Chinese Bookie - When a proud strip club owner ends with a gambling debt with the mob, they offer him one alternative instead of paying: to kill a pesky bookie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PZpmTj1Q8Q
The Dark Knight - When the Joker wreaks havoc and chaos on Gotham, Batman must fight him with the help of Commissioner Gordon and District Attorney Harvey Dent.
I haven't seen The Killing of a Chinese Bookie. Cassavetes is a bit of a blindspot for me; I've only seen one film from him.
As for The Dark Knight, it is a film that I really liked when I saw in theaters, but have liked less and less every time I revisit it. Sure, there's great craft from Nolan, it's an entertaining film, and Heath Ledger owns the role of the Joker. However, the third act is massively problematic and sticks out like a sore thumb the more I think of it. It's too rushed and frantically executed. And that's without getting into how much neo-noir it is (or isn't) :shrug:
SEEN: 22/40
MY BALLOT: 5/25
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Following (#84)
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16. Blue Ruin (#82)
17.
18. Red Rock West (#88)
19.
20. Killer Joe (#66)
21.
22. Mother (#67)
23.
24.
25.
Citizen Rules
03-24-24, 07:49 PM
Not seen either. Not seen many of these so far actually.
At the risk of earning crumbs' ire, I admit I have yet to see a single Cassavetes. Is Bookie a sufficient gateway movie?
The Dark Knight is excellent, but just missed my ballot. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie is very good too.
Seen: 30/40
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... THE KILLING OF A CHINESE BOOKIE
https://offscreen.com/images/articles/_resized/Review_421_Photo_5_Just_in_case_we_forgot_its_a_neo-noir_were_watching_-_Killing_of_a_Chinese_Bookie_%281976%2C_John_Cassavettes%29.jpeg
RT – 79%, IMDb – 7.3
Sven Mikulec, from Cinephilia & Beyond, said:
"In Cassavetes' unique vision of a film noir, the plot and action surrender the stage to characters. The handheld camera follows the protagonist around the club, at the bar, in his girlfriend’s house, in the limo. The story of The Killing of a Chinese Bookie is the story of Cosmo’s inner struggle." (read full document here (https://cinephiliabeyond.org/killing-of-a-chinese-bookie/))
Nitehawk Cinema said:
"In [Cassavetes]' stylistic noir vision, The Killing of a Chinese Bookie, the city becomes a landscape where morals and masculine identity are tested after the unhealthy appetite of gentleman's club owner, Cosmo Vitelli, puts him in an impossible situation." (read full review here (https://nitehawkcinema.com/prospectpark/movies/killing-chinese-bookie/))
Takoma11 said:
"For me, the film stumbles a bit as it moves into its final third. What had been mainly a drama kicks into more of a thriller mode, and certain sequences just didn't feel as realistic as what had come before. And by bringing more of the focus to the thriller/logistical part of the story, the moral struggle that Cosmo experienced gets slightly displaced, which is a shame." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2180547-the-killing-of-a-chinese-bookie.html))
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF... THE DARK KNIGHT
https://images.mubicdn.net/images/film/1731/cache-100534-1563231667/image-w1280.jpg?size=800x
RT – 94%, IMDb – 9.0
Roger Ebert said:
"Nolan has freed the character to be a canvas for a broader scope of human emotion. For Bruce Wayne is a deeply troubled man, let there be no doubt, and if ever in exile from his heroic role, it would not surprise me what he finds himself capable of doing." (read full document here (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-dark-knight-2008))
Christopher Nolan said:
"The biggest thing about noir is moral ambiguity, characters who are not easy to pin down — who is good, who is evil. In the greatest film noir there is this continuing pressure being put on the character, and I was looking back to a film like Double Indemnity. There is a spiraling sense of doom in these films, the characters are under pressure, and you see how they react." (read full review here (https://www.oklahoman.com/story/entertainment/2008/07/18/with-the-dark-knight-film-noir-continues-to-live/61566223007/))
mark f said:
"Batman seems to force himself to have to believe in what he stands for, but the Joker has no problem whatsoever in letting you know that he believes in Anarchy and the vileness of human nature, but it still has to be demonstrated with a maximum amount of 'fun'." (read full review here (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2275038-the-dark-knight.html))
WHITBISSELL!
03-24-24, 08:44 PM
1 for 2.
I consider having never seen The Killing of a Chinese Bookie as one of the more significant gaps in my movie watching experience. I've seen The Dark Knight of course but would never have identified it as noir. That speaks more of my unrefined palate than anything. Neither made my ballot.
Have seen 22 of the 40.
cricket
03-24-24, 08:57 PM
I liked The Dark Knight ok but it was my least favorite of the series.
Chinese Bookie made my ballot. I really like the director and the lead actor.
1. Killer Joe (#66)
3. Gone Baby Gone (#64)
9. Mona Lisa (#78)
11. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (#62)
12. Body Double (#69)
15. The Driver (#79)
21. Manhunter (#77)
Harry Lime
03-24-24, 09:02 PM
The Dark Knight is a great movie. One of the best blockbusters so far this millennium? Probably. I'm a bit surprised it's not higher but that's also a good thing. And that's nothing against the film.
Some of you need to catch up on your Cassavetes! This is one of, if not his best. Excellent performance by Ben Gazzara. I'll admit that Cassavetes films, and this one in particular, might not be for everyone but for me he's really moved up my directors ladder as I get older. I think it's ahead of its time. I think he was. Almost as if this and his other films influenced a whole generation of independent filmmakers. I had it at #4.
4. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (1976)
17. Hana-bi (1997)
22. The American Friend (1977)
25. Série noire (1979) - One pointer
24/40 seen
Another head-scratcher with The Dark Knight appearing. I love the film, and it is easily one of my favorite hero flicks, simply because it is also a fantastic crime thriller. Noir though? :shrug:
Putting today's other entry on my watch list...
Miss Vicky
03-24-24, 09:20 PM
I loved The Dark Knight the first few times I saw it, but liked it less and less after that. At this point the only thing I like about it is Ledger’s performance. It did not get my vote.
The Killing of a Chinese Bookie was truly my last cut. And for the record I very much prefer the re-edited version. I kinda regret not including it, but I’m very happy to see it. I love the Dark Knight. For me it’s not just the best superhero movie, but a really great movie on its own. However I stayed away from any mixed noirs, so no science fiction noir, no parody/comedy noir, and no Dark Knight.
SpelingError
03-24-24, 10:50 PM
At the risk of earning crumbs' ire, I admit I have yet to see a single Cassavetes. Is Bookie a sufficient gateway movie?
I'd say A Woman Under the Influence is the best place to start. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie should be saved till the end.
Iroquois
03-24-24, 10:52 PM
no votes. the killing of a chinese bookie is, like just about every cassavetes film i've seen so far, pretty great and makes me wish he'd have done more work that had one foot in genre cinema. you can dig up a pretty glowing review of the dark knight i posted on here back in the day, but i rewatched a bunch of nolans after oppenheimer and i don't think it holds up too well as its own thing.
SpelingError
03-24-24, 10:52 PM
The Killing of a Chinese Bookie is pretty good, but I like a few Cassavetes films more than it.
I've elaborated on my opinion of The Dark Knight in the past, but I think the first 2/3 or so are great, but then the ending becomes a big muddled mess.
AWARDS?
https://hips.hearstapps.com/esq.h-cdn.co/assets/15/34/980x490/landscape-1440011201-mcx-actors-preparing-for-roles-heath-ledger-the-dark-knight-1.jpg
The Killing of a Chinese Bookie didn't receive any nominations or awards. The Dark Knight, on the other hand, received a ton of nominations and awards. These are some of the most notable:
Thirteen (13) Saturn Award nominations, including a win for Best Action/Adventure/Thriller Film
Nine (9) BAFTA Film Award, including a win for Best Supporting Actor (Ledger)
Eight (8) Academy Award nominations, including a win for Best Supporting Actor (Heath Ledger)
Seven (7) Critics Choice Award nominations, including a win for Best Action Movie
Six (6) Satellite Award nominations, including a win for Best Sound Mixing and Editing
One (1) Golden Globe Award for Best Supporting Actor (Ledger)
Stats: Pit Stop #4
https://images.hindustantimes.com/rf/image_size_960x540/HT/p2/2020/07/21/Pictures/_f39aa556-cb3b-11ea-bdc8-eaddf71cc5d6.jpg
-
After hitting our fourth pit stop (60), here's were we are now:
Decade Breakdown
1960s = 7
1970s = 6
1980s = 3
1990s = 12
2000s = 6
2010s = 6
2020s = 0
The 1990s are still at the top, but with a strong demonstration from the 1970s and the 2000s in this batch, things are bound to get messy.
So far, Christopher Nolan has been the only director with more than one entry. He had Following at #84, followed today by The Dark Knight. But trust me, there'll be more.
PHOENIX74
03-25-24, 01:08 AM
I've seen A Woman Under the Influence, Gloria and Minnie and Moskowtiz - all three are amongst my favourite films, so it goes without saying that I will get to every John Cassavetes film by some stage - he's one of the absolute best filmmakers of his time. I'm really looking forward to catching The Killing of a Chinese Bookie.
61. The Dark Knight - I must have watched this 15 times when it came out - just a great movie with one of the most enjoyable performances of all time from Heath Ledger, who we were soon to be robbed of - but when you combine oxycodone, hydrocodone, diazepam, temazepam, alprazolam and doxylamine you're playing dice with your life. My reasons are selfish - I would have liked to have seen him go even further with the talent he had. Anyway, by far the best Batman film ever made - I'm not all that big on the character myself, but The Dark Knight got everything right, and stands out so much that it kind of makes the trilogy Nolan made somewhat uneven. Never mind - I'll take that. It didn't make my list - I didn't quite see it as neo noir, being pretty much locked into the 'superhero film' bracket it is. I'm not arguing with the classification, just explaining why I didn't vote for The Dark Knight. It wasn't neo-noir enough for me personally.
Seen : 24/40 - surprised by the number of films appearing I haven't seen actually.
StuSmallz
03-25-24, 02:59 AM
At the risk of earning crumbs' ire, I admit I have yet to see a single Cassavetes. Is Bookie a sufficient gateway movie?No, because it's whack.
Thursday Next
03-25-24, 04:54 AM
I have not seen Killing of A Chinese Bookie and should probably rectify that.
I'm not the first person to say this, but I think there are diminishing returns watching The Dark Knight. I enjoyed the trilogy when it first came out but rewatched them all recently and was underwhelmed. Agree the final third is a mess. (And you could drive a truck through the plotholes in Rises).
My first thought seeing it here was 'is that really noir or do people just like to vote TDK for everything?' but the more I think about it, Batman as an entity is very noir and Nolan does play up the noirish elements.
ScarletLion
03-25-24, 06:41 AM
66. Killer Joe (59 points) - Can't remember anything about it other than a controversial scene.
65. Strange Days (60 points) - Don't think I've seen it
64. Gone Baby Gone (60 points) - Decent film but not close to being on my ballot
63. Klute (60 points) - watched the other day. Good film.
62. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (61 points) - not seen
61. The Dark Knight (62 points) - Fun film but the most overrated movie in the history of movies.
stillmellow
03-25-24, 06:47 AM
66. Killer Joe (59 points) - Can't remember anything about it other than a controversial scene.
65. Strange Days (60 points) - Don't think I've seen it
64. Gone Baby Gone (60 points) - Decent film but not close to being on my ballot
63. Klute (60 points) - watched the other day. Good film.
62. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (61 points) - not seen
61. The Dark Knight (62 points) - Fun film but the most overrated movie in the history of movies.
Second most overrated, in my opinion. Most overrated was the next one, DK Rises.
stillmellow
03-25-24, 06:50 AM
I do think Dark Knight is okay. Mainly for Heath Ledger's performance. The parts that work, work well.
It's just nowhere near a top tier movie. The pilot's too ridiculous, and the love interest sub-plot doesn't work at all.
rauldc14
03-25-24, 08:42 AM
20/40 and 4 from my list.
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