View Full Version : Terrorist Attacks
No, we most certainly are not. They were a part of military strategy to win a war which is a vastly different thing. Not acts of terrorism - acts of war. If you can't tell the difference - well, not my problem.
I think you are the one who is confused here. Churchill himself called Dresden a "Terror Bombing", that's exactly what it was an attack targeting civilians in a town of no importance strategically. Not sure how you can call that anything but a terror attack but ok.
Anyway, this is going round in circles. You can have the last word if you want.
Equilibrium
05-26-17, 10:26 AM
So we are in agreement that the main objective of Dresden, Tokyo and the Blitz was to terrorize civilians. Cool, glad to see you agree they were terror attacks.
No, we most certainly are not. They were a part of military strategy to win a war which is a vastly different thing. Not acts of terrorism - acts of war. If you can't tell the difference - well, not my problem.
So if the military strategy of ISIS is to terrorize the West in hopes that the west will give up and agree to let ISIS exist as a sovereign entity that makes it ok to terrorize civilians according to you.
You have a very narrow minded view of the world. It's only terror to you if the other side is doing it. If we are doing it, it's a "military strategy". Give me a break, or at least give me a little bit of whatever it is you're smoking.
Captain Steel
05-26-17, 11:35 AM
So if the military strategy of ISIS is to terrorize the West in hopes that the west will give up and agree to let ISIS exist as a sovereign entity that makes it ok to terrorize civilians according to you.
You have a very narrow minded view of the world. It's only terror to you if the other side is doing it. If we are doing it, it's a "military strategy". Give me a break, or at least give me a little bit of whatever it is you're smoking.
Wow. That's really turning someone's thoughts into a pretzel.
ISIS is essentially doing what Germany did: taking land from people and marauding it's way across territory (much like the Islamic hordes of the Middle Ages that were the catalyst for the Crusades) - they are the aggressors - it's all terrorism.
Defending what's yours and fighting back against aggression is not terrorism.
For Guap, I agree with some of your points (which I'll get back to), but don't agree that an attack necessarily has to be random to constitute terror. When Nidal Hasan attacked Fort Hood, he'd planned to attack his fellow soldiers in the name of Islam - but perhaps some agree with Obama's categorization that this was only "workplace violence" despite the fact that Hasan had written manifestos and had been in contact with Islamic terrorist plotters to formulate plans and screamed what has become the Islamic Terrorist war cry of "Allahu Akbar!" as he slaughtered his targets.
It sounds like the discussion has turned largely to semantics trying to delineate between acts of war, retaliation, counterstrikes, preemptive strikes, assassinations, mass casualty events and terrorism. And I hate to say, I kind of see this as a very common tactic (similar to arguments of moral equivalency) to try to take the focus off the ongoing & growing global Islamic terrorism. And again, I'm not saying stifle the conversation, just saying that if I was a fencer I would not want to stop the bout, just that I recognize certain parrys.
Equilibrium
05-26-17, 11:49 AM
Defending what's yours and fighting back against aggression is not terrorism.
Unless of course we're talking about the Palestinians, in which case fighting for your land is terrorism.
Rest of your post is just typical rubbish.
It's not semantics, killing innocent civilians is terrorism whether ISIS does it, Britain does, or the US does and no government or religion is beyond reproach in this manner.
As for the crusades, it's Christianity's darkest moments, so I wouldn't really bring that up in a thread about terrorism if I were you lest we bring up the fathers of all terrorism: the knights templar.
It's not a tactic. Semantics are important, especially in such a complex issue like this.
For the record i was mostly responding to Guaps posts because i found them interesting and i had been coincidentally reading about the Tokyo Bombing recently, that was an off-topic post from me basically. The "Guap is doing god's work" part was a joke, not a very funny joke but i thought i made that clear by saying "Nah, seriously" in my next paragraph.
Just heard that the latest terrorist victim to be named is a young girl from Liverpool.
Captain Steel
05-26-17, 12:10 PM
Unless of course we're talking about the Palestinians, in which case fighting for your land is terrorism.
Rest of your post is just typical rubbish.
It's not semantics, killing innocent civilians is terrorism whether ISIS does it, Britain does, or the US does and no government or religion is beyond reproach in this manner.
As for the crusades, it's Christianity's darkest moments, so I wouldn't really bring that up in a thread about terrorism if I were you lest we bring up the fathers of all terrorism: the knights templar.
I will admit the Palestinian situation is a complicated one (we had a thread to try to hash that out but due to some oversensitive people demanding other's posts be removed, the thread was closed). ;)
What do you mean "It's not semantics"? The discussion has turned to: what is "terrorism." Well, definitions of words is a semantic discussion. If I drive by someone's house (whether I'm targeting them for some reason or just at random) and throw a molotov cocktail through their window, I have now effectively terrorized them. I am now a "terrorist." Terrorism can be used in a broad sense or more specific sense. We tend not to use the term terrorism when nations go to war with each other (I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it's just common).
As we know ISIS is not a nation, it was never a nation, they are not a "people" as they are just a conglomerate of terrorist scumbags & child rapists who have come together & have no claim to any territory. They don't just want nationhood or recognition as a political sovereign power (and I think it's safe to say that if they get such recognition that they'd never just become peaceful Muslims satisfied to live in peaceful alliance with the free and secular nations of the world) - they want complete global Islamic domination as outlined by their scriptures and ideology. They've demonstrated a level of brutality, sadism, sexual perversion, mental derangement and homicidal insanity that has nothing to do with establishing nationhood. They started as terrorists and will end as terrorists.
The Crusades (there were many) did involve many atrocities on the part of the Christian forces, but we have to remember that the reason they started was to combat, halt and defend against the Islamic massacres and spread across parts of Asia and Europe.
Captain Steel
05-26-17, 12:12 PM
It's not a tactic. Semantics are important, especially in such a complex issue like this.
For the record i was mostly responding to Guaps posts because i found them interesting and i had been coincidentally reading about the Tokyo Bombing recently, that was an off-topic post from me basically. The "Guap is doing god's work" part was a joke, not a very funny joke but i thought i made that clear by saying "Nah, seriously" in my next paragraph.
I agree. Semantics are important. They can help us differentiate between things like Islamic Terror attacks and "Workplace Violence."
We have been playing the semantics game for 15 years. From where I am sitting it doesn't appear to matter.
Unless of course we're talking about the Palestinians, in which case fighting for your land is terrorism.
This is either really confused or deliberately misleading. "Terrorism" is a method, not a cause. It's the how, not the why. If you decided to "fight for your land" by targeting civilians with no military value (which we've seen a lot in this conflict), then yeah, that's terrorism.
It's not semantics, killing innocent civilians is terrorism whether ISIS does it, Britain does, or the US does and no government or religion is beyond reproach in this manner.
This is false. Terrorism is deliberately targeting civilians with the express intent of spreading fear, not any action which happens to result in the death of a civilian. Anyone who uses a civilian as a shield is responsible if they die. The same way you'd blame the hostage-taker if one of their hostages died in the crossfire.
This distinction is almost universal across nations, and completely necessary, since the alternative is to render people hiding among civilians basically invincible.
As for the crusades, it's Christianity's darkest moments, so I wouldn't really bring that up in a thread about terrorism if I were you lest we bring up the fathers of all terrorism: the knights templar.
I think this is like that Hitler/Christianity thing you tossed out earlier, in that it's the sort of thing that passes into conventional wisdom simply because people repeat it without questioning it. The idea that the Crusades were unprovoked aggression, or just some arbitrary quest to convert people is ahistorical nonsense.
Which is not to say this is what you mean, of course. Feel free to clarify if that's the case.
Equilibrium
05-26-17, 12:39 PM
Unless of course we're talking about the Palestinians, in which case fighting for your land is terrorism.
Rest of your post is just typical rubbish.
It's not semantics, killing innocent civilians is terrorism whether ISIS does it, Britain does, or the US does and no government or religion is beyond reproach in this manner.
As for the crusades, it's Christianity's darkest moments, so I wouldn't really bring that up in a thread about terrorism if I were you lest we bring up the fathers of all terrorism: the knights templar.
I will admit the Palestinian situation is a complicated one (we had a thread to try to hash that out but due to some oversensitive people demanding other's posts be removed, the thread was closed). ;)
What do you mean "It's not semantics"? The discussion has turned to: what is "terrorism." Well, definitions of words is a semantic discussion. If I drive by someone's house (whether I'm targeting them for some reason or just at random) and throw a molotov cocktail through their window, I have now effectively terrorized them. I am now a "terrorist." Terrorism can be used in a broad sense or more specific sense. We tend not to use the term terrorism when nations go to war with each other (I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it's just common).
As we know ISIS is not a nation, it was never a nation and that they don't just want nationhood or recognition as a political sovereign power (and I think it's safe to say that if they get such recognition that they'd never just become peaceful Muslims satisfied to live in peaceful alliance with the free and secular nations of the world) - they want complete global Islamic domination as outlined by their scriptures and ideology. They've demonstrated a level of brutality, sadism, sexual perversion, mental derangement and homicidal insanity that has nothing to do with establishing nationhood. They started as terrorists and will end as terrorists.
The Crusades (there were many) did involve many atrocities on the part of the Christian forces, but we have to remember that the reason they started was to combat, halt and defend against the Islamic massacres and spread across parts of Asia and Europe.
One of your more moderate posts.
Just wanted to challenge the idea of "massacres" during the Islamic expansion.
You'll find that this not a term usually attributed to the spread of Islam. Think of the spread of the Mongols now THAT was a massacre (mostly of the muslim world I might add). The British empire, the Romans, the whoevers...they all spread with wars. My readings (from verified historical sources, not the types of sources you frequent ;)) of the spread of Islam during its height indicate it was a largely bloodless affair considering the vast amount of lands acquired. I mean I read somewhere that the same amount of land conquered by the brits and romans resulted in a 4 fold increase in casualties.
Anyways, I'm not trying to argue that the spread of Islam was peaceful at all and certainly a lot of it was done with the "sword". But most historians agree that those conquered enjoyed much more enriching lives that eventually lead to the golden age of Islam. In fact they were afforded more religious freedoms and many churches and synagogues were protected, restored, or rebuilt during that time and it's a shame these terrorist scumbags have completely ignored that legacy, and this is partly why most Muslims do not view these guys add "real Muslims"..But this an entirely different discussion for a different day.
One final point: many of today's Muslim countries are not Muslim because it was spread to them "by the sword". Tell me, what army spread Islam to Indonesia (the world's LARGEST Islamic population)?
Captain Steel
05-26-17, 12:42 PM
One of your more moderate posts.
Why, thank you!
Equilibrium
05-26-17, 12:46 PM
Unless of course we're talking about the Palestinians, in which case fighting for your land is terrorism.
This is either really confused or deliberately misleading. "Terrorism" is a method, not a cause. It's the how, not the why. If you decided to "fight for your land" by targeting civilians with no military value (which we've seen a lot in this conflict), then yeah, that's terrorism.
It's not semantics, killing innocent civilians is terrorism whether ISIS does it, Britain does, or the US does and no government or religion is beyond reproach in this manner.
This is false. Terrorism is deliberately targeting civilians with the express intent of spreading fear, not any action which happens to result in the death of a civilian. Anyone who uses a civilian as a shield is responsible if they die. The same way you'd blame the hostage-taker if one of their hostages died in the crossfire.
This distinction is almost universal across nations, and completely necessary, since the alternative is to render people hiding among civilians basically invincible.
As for the crusades, it's Christianity's darkest moments, so I wouldn't really bring that up in a thread about terrorism if I were you lest we bring up the fathers of all terrorism: the knights templar.
I think this is like that Hitler/Christianity thing you tossed out earlier, in that it's the sort of thing that passes into conventional wisdom simply because people repeat it without questioning it. The idea that the Crusades were unprovoked aggression, or just some arbitrary quest to convert people is ahistorical nonsense.
With regard to your point about the crusades, whether or not it was reactionary doesn't really justify what atrocities came after, in the same way that having your country bombed by the west doesn't justify you becoming a terrorist and blowing up civilians. There's more to say but I think we'd wind up on a tangent.
As for the definition of terrorism, well I'm taking it literally. And I think, as others have pointed out, that the distinction between it and war is your intent to harm civilians. I'd consider the siege of Leningrad where millions of innocents died to be an act of terrorism even though it was part of an overall war strategy by Germany to conquer the SU.
With regard to your point about the crusades, whether or not it was reactionary doesn't really justify what atrocities came after, in the same way that having your country bombed by the west doesn't justify you becoming a terrorist and blowing up civilians. There's more to say but I think we'd wind up on a tangent.
That's perfectly true, and if that's literally all you're saying, then I have no objections.
As for the definition of terrorism, well I'm taking it literally.
I don't know what this means, unless you're literally saying "terrorism" is "anything which can cause terror," which is crazy and would make horror films terrorism.
I'd consider the siege of Leningrad where millions of innocents died to be an act of terrorism even though it was part of an overall war strategy by Germany to conquer the SU.
That's fine; I think such things are arguable. But I wasn't trying to haggle over edge cases. I'm disputing the idea that terrorism is simply a question of whether civilians die. And one of the reasons I'm disputing it is because it has the (intentional?) side effect of reducing the entire Middle East conflict to "terrorism," even though there's a demonstrable asymmetry in the number of attacks expressly on civilians. One side has more incentive than another to dilute the meaning of the word in this specific way.
Wplains
05-26-17, 05:11 PM
Not sure how you can call that anything but a terror attack but ok.
You don't? I'll explain it to you: if you destroy cities and kill as many civilians as possible then there is the chance their own people will demand the war be stopped because the cost is too high in terms of loss of lives and infrastructure. This is what happened in Japan after the atom bomb was dropped: they surrendered immediately when they realized what the cost of having to cope with an atom bomb was. This is what Hitler tried to do to the U.K. with the London blitz - bring Britain to it's knees so they would surrender rather than endure the loss of life and property that wave after wave of nightly bombings brought to the country. And they very nearly succeeded too.
This is nothing new, it's been used in warfare since war began - it's called hitting them where it hurts.
Movie Max
05-26-17, 05:40 PM
...which is crazy and would make horror films terrorism.
:laugh: You made me laugh.
Wplains
05-26-17, 08:41 PM
So if the military strategy of ISIS is to terrorize the West in hopes that the west will give up and agree to let ISIS exist as a sovereign entity that makes it ok to terrorize civilians according to you.
You have a very narrow minded view of the world. It's only terror to you if the other side is doing it. If we are doing it, it's a "military strategy". Give me a break, or at least give me a little bit of whatever it is you're smoking.
When did ISIS become a nation? I must have missed that bit...
Wplains
05-26-17, 08:46 PM
As for the crusades, it's Christianity's darkest moments, so I wouldn't really bring that up in a thread about terrorism if I were you lest we bring up the fathers of all terrorism: the knights templar.
Some crusades were fought in our home countries. I wouldn't call a very important part of the history of my country "Christianity's darkest moment".
Stirchley
05-26-17, 08:56 PM
This is what Hitler tried to do to the U.K. with the London blitz - bring Britain to it's [sic] knees so they would surrender rather than endure the loss of life and property that wave after wave of nightly bombings brought to the country. And they very nearly succeeded too.
Please produce evidence to support your assertion that the United Kingdom would ever have surrendered to Hitler.
Just heard that the latest terrorist victim to be named is a young girl from Liverpool.
My thoughts are with her family.
Equilibrium
05-26-17, 09:17 PM
So if the military strategy of ISIS is to terrorize the West in hopes that the west will give up and agree to let ISIS exist as a sovereign entity that makes it ok to terrorize civilians according to you.
You have a very narrow minded view of the world. It's only terror to you if the other side is doing it. If we are doing it, it's a "military strategy". Give me a break, or at least give me a little bit of whatever it is you're smoking.
When did ISIS become a nation? I must have missed that bit...
Firstly, I called them an "entity".
Secondly, they think they are. They control land and have an economy.
Finally, at the end of the day my point was about their demands (to BE recognized and given autonomy) being linked to their terrorist acts. They obviously want to grow and survive and are essentially saying "let us do our thing, or we will kill your innocent". Which to me is cowardly but based on your post would be considered a "military strategy."
Equilibrium
05-26-17, 09:22 PM
This is what Hitler tried to do to the U.K. with the London blitz - bring Britain to it's [sic] knees so they would surrender rather than endure the loss of life and property that wave after wave of nightly bombings brought to the country. And they very nearly succeeded too.
Please produce evidence to support your assertion that the United Kingdom would ever have surrendered to Hitler.
I dont want to take his thunder but...
Well...at the national D-day museum in New Orleans there was an entire room dedicated to the pleas of Churchill to the US to join the war. And what was clear to me was that Britain did not think they could sustain the war effort.
Stirchley
05-26-17, 09:22 PM
The UK used terror bombing as a way to attack Germany since they couldn't land in Europe for 80% of WW2 since they had no large army.
Huh? Not to mention that the United Kingdom actually is in Europe.
Equilibrium
05-26-17, 09:25 PM
As for the crusades, it's Christianity's darkest moments, so I wouldn't really bring that up in a thread about terrorism if I were you lest we bring up the fathers of all terrorism: the knights templar.
Some crusades were fought in our home countries. I wouldn't call a very important part of the history of my country "Christianity's darkest moment".
They were Christianitys darkest moments in humanitarian terms.
Sorry, you're allowed to have your own opinion but not your own facts.
Stirchley
05-26-17, 09:26 PM
I dont want to take his thunder but...
Well...at the national D-day museum in New Orleans there was an entire room dedicated to the pleas of Churchill to the US to join the war. And what was clear to me was that Britain did not think they could sustain the war effort.
The United States was critical to the outcome of WWII. Nobody would deny that.
But losing a war & surrendering are two completely different things. Churchill would never have surrendered.
This is what Hitler tried to do to the U.K. with the London blitz - bring Britain to it's [sic] knees so they would surrender rather than endure the loss of life and property that wave after wave of nightly bombings brought to the country. And they very nearly succeeded too.
Please produce evidence to support your assertion that the United Kingdom would ever have surrendered to Hitler.
I dont want to take his thunder but...
Well...at the national D-day museum in New Orleans there was an entire room dedicated to the pleas of Churchill to the US to join the war. And what was clear to me was that Britain did not think they could sustain the war effort.
I thought USA gve up their formal neutrality because Japan invaded China which introduced an embargo on the oil trade?
Either way state sanctioned terrorism is still terrorism. Doesn't matter who does it. Killing innocent people to incite fear is terrorism.
Stirchley
05-26-17, 09:35 PM
I thought USA gve up their formal neutrality because Japan invaded China which introduced an embargo on the oil trade?
The United States declared war on Germany on 12/11/41, four days after Pearl Harbor.
Attack on Pearl Harbor (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor)
I thought USA gve up their formal neutrality because Japan invaded China which introduced an embargo on the oil trade?
The United States declared war on Germany on 12/11/41, four days after Pearl Harbor.
Yeah and before that I'm pretty sure they were still claiming neutrality but I could be wrong. I studied German history during the wars, not American or Japanese
(which is pretty stupid considering where I live but we weren't given a choice)
Stirchley
05-26-17, 09:43 PM
Yeah and before that I'm pretty sure they were still claiming neutrality but I could be wrong. I studied German history during the wars, not American or Japanese
(which is pretty stupid considering where I live but we weren't given a choice)
Prior to Pearl Harbor FDR did, in fact, invoke the Neutrality Acts to keep America out of the war.
I know. That's why I'm asking about Equi's clarification in Churchill.
Wplains
05-26-17, 10:24 PM
Firstly, I called them an "entity".
Secondly, they think they are. They control land and have an economy.
Finally, at the end of the day my point was about their demands (to BE recognized and given autonomy) being linked to their terrorist acts. They obviously want to grow and survive and are essentially saying "let us do our thing, or we will kill your innocent". Which to me is cowardly but based on your post would be considered a "military strategy."
ISIS is not a legitimate anything. All they are are a bunch of murderers, rapists and thieves who have banded together and managed to get hold of some heavy duty weapons. They need to be stamped out like the cockroaches they are.
PS - I forgot to add baby raping pedophiles.
Captain Steel
05-26-17, 10:29 PM
ISIS is not a legitimate anything. All they are are a bunch of murderers, rapists and thieves who have banded together and managed to get some heavy duty weapons. They need to be stamped out like the cockroaches they are.
I think we're ALL agreed on that! (Referring to everyone on this site, that is. Unless we've got some ISIS sleepers here who enjoy discussing movies.)
Wplains
05-26-17, 10:33 PM
They were Christianitys darkest moments in humanitarian terms.
Sorry, you're allowed to have your own opinion but not your own facts.
As far as i'm concerned that is your opinion NOT a fact. You don't get to decided what is "darkest" or "lightest", or "best" or "worst" in history, now do you? Or did someone die and make you the world's foremost authority on human history?
Captain Steel
05-26-17, 10:36 PM
Wish we could at least go a little while without new terror attacks by Jihadists interrupting the conversation, but only days after Manchester, Islamic Terrorists slaughter 28 Coptic Christians in Egypt as yet another incident in the ages-old holocaust against Christians by Islamic extremists in Africa.
The good news is the Egyptian government has actually taken action in retaliatory airstrikes against what they called militant training bases.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/05/26/egypt-gunmen-attack-coptic-christians/102183116/
Wish we could at least go a little while without new terror attacks by Jihadists interrupting the conversation, but only days after Manchester, Islamic Terrorists slaughter 28 Coptic Christians in Egypt as yet another incident in the ages-old holocaust against Christians by Islamic extremists in Africa.
The good news is the Egyptian government has actually taken action in retaliatory airstrikes against what they called militant training bases.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/05/26/egypt-gunmen-attack-coptic-christians/102183116/
That came out few days ago and I was waiting for someone to post but the OP doesnt seem to care if it's in a muslim majority country.
Bloody dreadful this all fuels up just before Ramadan which is a really beautiful festival. These people are not religious people. They're psychotic.
Wplains
05-26-17, 10:39 PM
The United States was critical to the outcome of WWII. Nobody would deny that.
But losing a war & surrendering are two completely different things. Churchill would never have surrendered.
No I agree. But the country could have been completely overwhelmed. They were running out of money, arms, munitions, etc. Britain was virtually fighting the war alone in Europe as most all other countries had been invaded. Then US stepped in with the Lend Lease agreement to help out before they joined the war.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge admirer of Churchill - I consider him the greatest statesman of the 20th century.
Captain Steel
05-26-17, 10:54 PM
That came out few days ago and I was waiting for someone to post but the OP doesnt seem to care if it's in a muslim majority country.
Bloody dreadful this all fuels up just before Ramadan which is a really beautiful festival. These people are not religious people. They're psychotic.
Just for accuracy of info - you may be thinking of another attack Dani (after all, there are any number of daily ones in the middle east to choose from.) Reports say this one happened today (Friday, May 26, 2017) in Minya, Egypt as 2 buses filled with Coptic Christians on their way to a monastery were targeted by Islamic Terrorists.
Another report: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/05/egypt-gunmen-attack-bus-carrying-coptic-christians-170526100440001.html
Wplains
05-26-17, 10:58 PM
Wish we could at least go a little while without new terror attacks by Jihadists interrupting the conversation, but only days after Manchester, Islamic Terrorists slaughter 28 Coptic Christians in Egypt as yet another incident in the ages-old holocaust against Christians by Islamic extremists in Africa.
The good news is the Egyptian government has actually taken action in retaliatory airstrikes against what they called militant training bases.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/05/26/egypt-gunmen-attack-coptic-christians/102183116/
I saw that in the news today. All part of the strategy to remove Christians and Jews from the ME and Northern Africa. Just for the record, Jews are moving out of France in record numbers. No longer safe for them there because of a certain religion. This was first brought to my attention by a Jewish friend of mine. I had no idea this was happening.
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/07/anti-semitism-france-hostage-hyper-cacher-kosher-market
Just for accuracy of info - you may be thinking of another attack Dani (after all, there are any number of daily ones in the middle east to choose from.) Reports say this one happened today (Friday, May 26, 2017) in Minya, Egypt as 2 buses filled with Coptic Christians on their way to a monastery were targeted by Islamic Terrorists.
Another report: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/05/egypt-gunmen-attack-bus-carrying-coptic-christians-170526100440001.html
I saw that yesterday, Cap. Unless it's a second one?
The fact of the matter is it is very effed up and no one is disputing that. Go back and read my link to Waleed Aly who is a muslim and an academic. It's deplorable when people attack innocents. Convo came up about Manchester when I was talking to one of my Iranian friends. She started sobbing about the children. Most people in the world want to just get on with it and look after their loved ones. WTF is this disenfranchising happening with young people which is what people should be looking at.
Wplains
05-26-17, 11:03 PM
Just for accuracy of info - you may be thinking of another attack Dani (after all, there are any number of daily ones in the middle east to choose from.) Reports say this one happened today (Friday, May 26, 2017) in Minya, Egypt as 2 buses filled with Coptic Christians on their way to a monastery were targeted by Islamic Terrorists.
Another report: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/05/egypt-gunmen-attack-bus-carrying-coptic-christians-170526100440001.html
I thought that had happened today too. At least, it was on my local radio news this morning.
Captain Steel
05-26-17, 11:12 PM
I thought that had happened today too. At least, it was on my local radio news this morning.
Dani is in a different time zone, so from her perspective it did happen "yesterday."
Dani is in a different time zone, so from her perspective it did happen "yesterday."
Harr. Nice sniper attack, Cap.
Captain Steel
05-26-17, 11:22 PM
Harr. Nice sniper attack, Cap.
I don't get the joke? "Sniper attack"??? I was being serious.
I know you live in Australia and it is now the 27th there, yes?
While where I am on the east coast of the U.S., it is still the 26th (the same day reports say that the attack on Copts in Minya, Egypt occurred). It's also the same day the retaliatory strikes occur - which, I must say was pretty quick reaction by Egyptian forces.
But it also makes me wonder - sometimes we hear about these retaliatory strikes against terrorist bases... Why are they usually retaliatory strikes AFTER attacks have occurred? If government forces know where these Al Qaida or ISIS bases are, why do they wait until after an attack, the mass murder of innocents and public outcry? Why aren't they obliterated as soon as the government becomes aware of them? Why are they allowed to operate and formulate attacks that kill scores before they're taken out?
Why are they usually retaliatory strikes AFTER attacks have occurred? If government forces know where these Al Qaida or ISIS bases are, why do they wait until after an attack, the mass murder of innocents and public outcry? Why aren't they obliterated as soon as the government becomes aware of them? Why are they allowed to operate and formulate attacks that kill scores before they're taken out?
My question as well. They knew who the guy was before he killed people, the same as task forces knew who the Sydney siege prick was, and in the country with the strictest gun gun control is, he still manged to buy a freaking gun. And Omar Mateen was known to task forces. How did that steroid abuser buy a semi automatic weapon before shooting up a nightclub?
Equilibrium
05-27-17, 12:05 AM
Firstly, I called them an "entity".
Secondly, they think they are. They control land and have an economy.
Finally, at the end of the day my point was about their demands (to BE recognized and given autonomy) being linked to their terrorist acts. They obviously want to grow and survive and are essentially saying "let us do our thing, or we will kill your innocent". Which to me is cowardly but based on your post would be considered a "military strategy."
ISIS is not a legitimate anything. All they are are a bunch of murderers, rapists and thieves who have banded together and managed to get hold of some heavy duty weapons. They need to be stamped out like the cockroaches they are.
PS - I forgot to add baby raping pedophiles.
I think we're all in agreement on that.
Equilibrium
05-27-17, 12:10 AM
They were Christianitys darkest moments in humanitarian terms.
Sorry, you're allowed to have your own opinion but not your own facts.
As far as i'm concerned that is your opinion NOT a fact. You don't get to decided what is "darkest" or "lightest", or "best" or "worst" in history, now do you? Or did someone die and make you the world's foremost authority on human history?
I mean, I guess the Spanish inquisition was pretty bad too? Bah. You get my point. It was a pretty bad thing those ole crusaders did sometimes. Whether its darkest or not I guess depends on where you place stuff on your moral spectrum and I have a very low tolerance for aggression so...yea.
Captain Steel
05-27-17, 12:16 AM
Bah.
Kudos for using "Bah" in this day and age! :p
Wplains
05-27-17, 06:40 AM
I mean, I guess the Spanish inquisition was pretty bad too? Bah. You get my point. It was a pretty bad thing those ole crusaders did sometimes. Whether its darkest or not I guess depends on where you place stuff on your moral spectrum and I have a very low tolerance for aggression so...yea.
Yea what? There is plenty of violence in humanity's history. What's considered "the worst" is a matter of opinion as there is so much to choose from. :D
That came out few days ago and I was waiting for someone to post but the OP doesnt seem to care if it's in a muslim majority country.
i dont post terror attacks from my own country india too , even though it is a non muslim majority country .
The United States declared war on Germany on 12/11/41, four days after Pearl Harbor.
Attack on Pearl Harbor (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor)
even though america was at war with japan after pearl harbour , war had not been declared by america on germany .
actually it was germany ( or rather hitler ) who declared war on the US after pearl harbour . it relived a huge burden on US president roosevelt to convince americans that war needed to be declared on germany too .
FromBeyond
05-27-17, 01:32 PM
I can see the media have gone all out with this latest terror attack in Manchester to see how many Muslims they can show saying how awful this terror attack was and nothing to do with Islamic teachings, in the most basic terms.. with some old vicar nodding along and chirping agreement.. it is the order of the day... Muslims, Jews, Sikhs and Christians all praying together... to a different god.. on the BBC
Muslims, Jews, Sikhs and Christians all praying together... to a different god.. on the BBC
It is actually to the same god. You do know what the Quran was based on, right? And why shouldnt they? They're all humanbeings grieving over the loss of innocent adults and children in their own city. People from all cultures came together in my city after a terror attack by a bleeping lunatic. Why wouldnt they. You do realise religious leaders condemn these atrocities or do you think they're all telling porky pies?
I have no idea why I keep coming into this thread. It's like a freaking magnet.
Captain Steel
05-27-17, 04:32 PM
It is actually to the same god. You do know what the Quran was based on, right? And why shouldnt they? They're all humanbeings grieving over the loss of innocent adults and children in their own city. People from all cultures came together in my city after a terror attack by a bleeping lunatic. Why wouldnt they. You do realise religious leaders condemn these atrocities or do you think they're all telling porky pies?
I have no idea why I keep coming into this thread. It's like a freaking magnet.
I come for the "porky pies"! ;)
I come for the "porky pies"! ;)
Yeah I had to throw that one in there rather than get angry because people fighting in the world over my dad is better than your dad when they all have the same father is ludicrous. And this is precisely why moderate Muslims say islamist terrorists are just hiding behind the book; they're not observant religious people at all. Delusional fracking clowns fantasising about screwing virgins in the afterlife. Someone needs to tell those morons that once you screw a virgin she's no longer intact. Bad luck, dead guy.
FromBeyond
05-27-17, 10:21 PM
It is actually to the same god. You do know what the Quran was based on, right? And why shouldnt they? They're all humanbeings grieving over the loss of innocent adults and children in their own city. People from all cultures came together in my city after a terror attack by a bleeping lunatic. Why wouldnt they. You do realise religious leaders condemn these atrocities or do you think they're all telling porky pies?
I have no idea why I keep coming into this thread. It's like a freaking magnet.
Yes I know that Quran took from the other religions and claims that it is the finished article an all that nonsense but no its not the same god, one is the Father of Jesus and one is not so how can it be the same god, please don't insult my intellect..
I think it's irrelevant what an old fuddy duddy Vicar condemns, this is not a christian country! you don't really get the gist of what I wrote and I think it's best we agree to disagree.
Yes I know that Quran took from the other religions and claims that it is the finished article an all that nonsense but no its not the same god, one is the Father of Jesus and one is not so how can it be the same god, please don't insult my intellect..
I think it's irrelevant what an old fuddy duddy Vicar condemns, this is not a christian country! you don't really get the gist of what I wrote and I think it's best we agree to disagree.
I wasnt trying to insult your intelligence at all. I'm sorry if you took it that way. Even Muslims say it's the same god. It IS. All of the Abrahamic religions are quoting Abraham, not an imaginary guy in the sky. Where did I first find out about this? In a freaking Muslim country when I was visiting a bloody christian church, so the fighting over it is ludicrous. This thread is not about religion anyway *cough* Yeah right.
OK back to killing innocent people. Yes - that's terrorism.
I guess no one will bring this up so I will
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40073974?SThisFB
Equilibrium
05-27-17, 11:09 PM
It is actually to the same god. You do know what the Quran was based on, right? And why shouldnt they? They're all humanbeings grieving over the loss of innocent adults and children in their own city. People from all cultures came together in my city after a terror attack by a bleeping lunatic. Why wouldnt they. You do realise religious leaders condemn these atrocities or do you think they're all telling porky pies?
I have no idea why I keep coming into this thread. It's like a freaking magnet.
Yes I know that Quran took from the other religions and claims that it is the finished article an all that nonsense but no its not the same god, one is the Father of Jesus and one is not so how can it be the same god, please don't insult my intellect..
I think it's irrelevant what an old fuddy duddy Vicar condemns, this is not a christian country! you don't really get the gist of what I wrote and I think it's best we agree to disagree.
It is the same God. Dani8 is clearly a lot more educated on the subject matter than you.
The Quran itself states the God of Mohammed is the God of Jesus, the God of Moses and the God of Abraham.
There's a reason Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are taught as the abrahamic religions and those three religions are called The people of the book" in the Quran.
Those scholars and PhDs in theology (you know like the experts on religion) unanimously state that all three religions worship the same God.
Now, if you'd like to be the voice of dissent you're entitled to have your own little island and your own little opinion to go along with it as long as you understand you are not debating a debatable subject.
FromBeyond
05-27-17, 11:26 PM
I wasnt trying to insult your intelligence at all. I'm sorry if you took it that way. Even Muslims say it's the same god. It IS. All of the Abrahamic religions are quoting Abraham, not an imaginary guy in the sky. Where did I first find out about this? In a freaking Muslim country when I was visiting a bloody christian church, so the fighting over it is ludicrous. This thread is not about religion anyway *cough* Yeah right.
OK back to killing innocent people. Yes - that's terrorism.
What do you mean "even Muslims" it is mostly Muslims who say it because they want to have the final word on God
Islam view of Jesus is a prophet of god whose message was corrupted in the Bible and was not the son of God and Gods word was revealed (imperfectly) in the Bible.. not the same god.
What do you mean "even Muslims" it is mostly Muslims who say it because they want to have the final word on God
Islam view of Jesus is a prophet of god whose message was corrupted in the Bible and was not the son of God and Gods word was revealed (imperfectly) in the Bible.. not the same god.
This is what you said that I responded to
Muslims, Jews, Sikhs and Christians all praying together... to a different god.. on the BBC
That is incorrect. And it's got nothing to do with terrorism anyway, although most of the misinformation in this thread isn't either. Would you care to comment on the innocent people who got stabbed in USA for standing up to a bully terrorising a girl wearing a head covering?
Captain Steel
05-27-17, 11:33 PM
It is the same God. Dani8 is clearly a lot more educated on the subject matter than you.
The Quran itself states the God of Mohammed is the God of Jesus, the God of Moses and the God of Abraham.
There's a reason Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are taught as the abrahamic religions and those three religions are called The people of the book" in the Quran.
Those scholars and PhDs in theology (you know like the experts on religion) unanimously state that all three religions worship the same God.
Now, if you'd like to be the voice of dissent you're entitled to have your own little island and your own little opinion to go along with it as long as you understand you are not debating a debatable subject.
Agreed. "Allah" is simply the Arabic name for "the God."
It is also the name of the ancient Arabian moon god who was also worshipped at the Kaaba in Mecca by Arabians long before Muhammad came on the scene.
Speaking of the Kaaba, Muslims still revere its "Black Stone" which also dates back to pagan polytheism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah_as_Moon-god'
No big deal - all religions have aspects that were derived from earlier civilizations and traditions.
The one thing that all other religions do not share with Islam is the teaching, scriptural commandments, example set by the Prophet or belief that God has eternally authorized his true believers to force submission upon or else to murder and expunge the Earth of anyone who does not share the belief and submit to Islamic law. Islam is the only "religion" that has such a tenet (which may help explain global Islamic Terrorism that seeks to carry the tenet out).
Equilibrium
05-28-17, 12:39 AM
I wasnt trying to insult your intelligence at all. I'm sorry if you took it that way. Even Muslims say it's the same god. It IS. All of the Abrahamic religions are quoting Abraham, not an imaginary guy in the sky. Where did I first find out about this? In a freaking Muslim country when I was visiting a bloody christian church, so the fighting over it is ludicrous. This thread is not about religion anyway *cough* Yeah right.
OK back to killing innocent people. Yes - that's terrorism.
What do you mean "even Muslims" it is mostly Muslims who say it because they want to have the final word on God
Islam view of Jesus is a prophet of god whose message was corrupted in the Bible and was not the son of God and Gods word was revealed (imperfectly) in the Bible.. not the same god.
Whether or not there are differences in the religions doesn't change the fundamentals of that religion.
Christians believe Jesus is the son of God, Muslims believe he was a prophet.
The variable here is prophet of God vs son of God. The constant is God. Therefore it's the same God Christians pray to that Muslims do.
Now if you want to debate whether Muslims believe in the same Jesus that Christians do..well you'd actually have something to debate about there.
And again, and most importantly theologians much smarter than you and I have already unanimously concluded that they are the same God. So again, we thank you for coloring this thread with your opinion.
Equilibrium
05-28-17, 12:54 AM
It is the same God. Dani8 is clearly a lot more educated on the subject matter than you.
The Quran itself states the God of Mohammed is the God of Jesus, the God of Moses and the God of Abraham.
There's a reason Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are taught as the abrahamic religions and those three religions are called The people of the book" in the Quran.
Those scholars and PhDs in theology (you know like the experts on religion) unanimously state that all three religions worship the same God.
Now, if you'd like to be the voice of dissent you're entitled to have your own little island and your own little opinion to go along with it as long as you understand you are not debating a debatable subject.
Agreed. "Allah" is simply the Arabic name for "the God."
It is also the name of the ancient Arabian moon god who was also worshipped at the Kaaba in Mecca by Arabians long before Muhammad came on the scene.
Speaking of the Kaaba, Muslims still revere its "Black Stone" which also dates back to pagan polytheism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah_as_Moon-god'
No big deal - all religions have aspects that were derived from earlier civilizations and traditions.
The one thing that all other religions do not share with Islam is the teaching, scriptural commandments, example set by the Prophet or belief that God has eternally authorized his true believers to force submission upon or else to murder and expunge the Earth of anyone who does not share the belief and submit to Islamic law. Islam is the only "religion" that has such a tenet (which may help explain global Islamic Terrorism that seeks to carry the tenet out).
The five pillars of Islam (this is what you need to do to be considered a Muslim)
1.) Say the words "there is no God but God and Mohammed is his last prophet"
2.) Fast the month of Ramadan
3.) Give charity to the poor
4.) Pray
5.) If one is able, visit Mecca once in your life for the Hajj (pilgrimage).
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Pillars_of_Islam
I don't see "annihilate anyone not like you" but it is getting late and maybe your wonderful and very trustworthy sources can shed some "light" on this "tenet."
If anything the Quran seems to indicate the opposite of what you say.
From Surat al-Kafiroon
"Say : O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
Nor will I worship those whom you have worshipped;,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine."
Source:
https://quran.com/109
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 01:30 AM
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/does-the-koran-forbid-the-killing-of-non-muslims/
Equilibrium
05-28-17, 01:40 AM
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/does-the-koran-forbid-the-killing-of-non-muslims/
We're sourcing anti-muslim blogs now?????
And whats worse, the blog poster sources your favorite little website (posted in image below..hint ANSWERING ISLAM).
I thought myself and another poster had taught you a valuable lesson about that website.
As for the rest of that blog post, again I will just post the original verse as it appears in the quran.
Arabic:
مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَٰلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَىٰ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَن قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا ۚ وَلَقَدْ جَاءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنْهُم بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ فِي الْأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ - 5:32
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL TRANSLATION
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
I'm still waiting for proof of this "tenet" of wiping out non-muslims.
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 03:30 AM
Unfortunately, any site that has accurate info about Islam without applying PC rationalizations is going to be accused of being anti-Islam by apologists.
We live in an environment where those who condemn the ideology behind the terrorist bombings are called Islamophobes. Those who want to prevent outside populations from ushering more terrorists into the midst of peaceful countries are called "racists" and "xenophobes."
People are being manipulated by Islamophobiaphobia - the fear of telling truth, or of seeing something & saying something, then immediately being accused of being an Islamophobe.
Perhaps you'd listen to Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe_cuzsmmHU&t=1400s
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 03:59 AM
And if Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a little to intellectual... there's this...
(Which should really help the apologists out since it outlines some of their major arguments...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe_cuzsmmHU&t=1400s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzRaxFgIxG4)
It's difficult to give he benefit of the doubt. MovieForums, this is by farb the wirst u;ve everm yiy jbiw,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,]]
Fking die together please thanks, bye.
Pretty sure all oc you guys aew dxjing idiotz.
What is wrong with u moron?
Oh My God.
Please don't be a ****ing idiot.
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 04:25 AM
It's difficult to give he benefit of the doubt. MovieForums, this is by farb the wirst u;ve everm yiy jbiw,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,]]
Fking die together please thanks, bye.
Well, I agree with half of what you say but would like to rebut the other half if I fully understand the extent of your comment exactly as it is written.
First, if we take your point literally, we must assume that we have to mambo dogface to the banana patch. If we can confirm this point, then we can move on (but only on Tuesday, except at night, and if you had a half Fizbin, unless it was dark, then you'd have to give it back!)
HAPPY MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND!
Well, I agree with half of what you say but would like to rebut the other half if I fully understand the extent of your comment exactly as it is written.
First, if we take your point literally, we must assume that we have to mambo dogface to the banana patch. If we can confirm this point, then we can move on (but only on Tuesday, except at night, and if you had a half Fizbin, unless it was dark, then you'd have to give it back!)
Okay? I think you can hate brown people in your own awful white bubble
I don't like reading you posts and i won't again. I'm pretty much done with you
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 04:33 AM
Okay? I think you can hate brown people in your own awful white bubble
I don't like reading you posts and i won't again. I'm pretty much done with you
Will you even remember my posts tomorrow? :p
And if my bubble is white, does that mean it's made of milk? And if so, does that mean it's coming out of my nose? Answer: if I was drinking milk then it definitely would've been coming out my nose at your last few posts! Thank you for the laughs before bed.
Will you even remember my posts tomorrow? :p
Yes. Ir's difficult to forget hardcore awfulness.
And if Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a little to intellectual... there's this...
(Which should really help the apologists out since it outlines some of their major arguments...)]
Looks like something a conspiracy theorist who grabs 'sources' off the net from hate sites would post to back up their own xenophobia. sorry, Cap. Wont be opening any more of your linkies in this thread. I'm still traumatised by the last forum you linked which traumatised me with three words in very large font that you missed because you forgot to put on your glasses.
CONSPIRACY THEORY FORUMS.
Lets move onto the next part of the joke....oh wait we can't coz this is the worst thing ever.
Thanks for being so consistently terrible Captain.
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 04:46 AM
Looks like something a conspiracy theorist who grabs 'sources' off the net from hate sites would post to back up their own xenophobia. sorry, Cap. Wont be opening any more of your linkies in this thread. I'm still traumatised by the last forum you linked which traumatised me with three words in very large font that you missed because you forgot to put on your glasses.
CONSPIRACY THEORY FORUMS.
Good plan, Dani - dismiss the videos without even looking at them! That way you'll always be sure you're right! ;)
I don't know of anyone who's ever called Ayaan Hirsi Ali part of a conspiracy. She's a women's rights advocate, and a highly educated speaker with firsthand experience.
The other one I just found and it was kind of funny - so a little juxtaposition to Ali's very serious speeches.
At least you don't sound drunk so I don't think you'll have to mambo dogface to the banana patch! ;)
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 04:48 AM
Lets move onto the next part of the joke....oh wait we can't coz this is the worst thing ever.
Thanks for being so consistently terrible Captain.
Don't know what you're talking about (as usual on Saturday nights), but you're welcome, Buddy!!!
Captain should ban himself. He's being pretty selfish otherwise coz he's really awful.
Nostromo87
05-28-17, 04:53 AM
Hi, I am Franko
I am an Artist and a historymaker
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZGgAWwRs_4&t=0m34s
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 04:53 AM
Captain should ban himself. He's being prettu selfish otherwise coz he's really awful.
Good idea! I'm banning myself to bed!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2je127vBWrQ
I don't know of anyone who's ever called Ayaan Hirsi Ali part of a conspiracy. She's a women's rights advocate, and a highly educated speaker with firsthand experience.
The other one I just found and it was kind of funny - so a little juxtaposition to Ali's very serious speeches.
I was quite clearly referring to your second one so don't pull the dumb insolence card yet again, Cap. I don't find this topic the least bit funny, mate. Any comments on the american man who was stabbed to death defending a teen being bullied by one of your own countrymen? I didn't think so.
For the record, Captain is one of the few good members here.
Nostromo87
05-28-17, 05:29 AM
What the Spartans do to coward terrorist scum?
https://68.media.tumblr.com/5606100a89f8700ac1911da777a44083/tumblr_mqocxcXlVu1rz67rgo1_500.gif
WHAM!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjofunzMkHo
The West
Equilibrium
05-28-17, 05:53 AM
Unfortunately, any site that has accurate info about Islam without applying PC rationalizations is going to be accused of being anti-Islam by apologists.
We live in an environment where those who condemn the ideology behind the terrorist bombings are called Islamophobes. Those who want to prevent outside populations from ushering more terrorists into the midst of peaceful countries are called "racists" and "xenophobes."
People are being manipulated by Islamophobiaphobia - the fear of telling truth, or of seeing something & saying something, then immediately being accused of being an Islamophobe.
Perhaps you'd listen to Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe_cuzsmmHU&t=1400s
Answering Islam has been debunked years ago as being full of falsehoods, fake links, changing koranic verses.
No one here is opening your links. After you posted that fake news story and claimed it was real and then you were caught you lost ALL credibility (not that you had much to start with).
You're so brainwashed and I pity you.
Too bad the DC Comic Book versions of historical figures weren't there:
jesus christ, i really hate most members on this site
Wplains
05-28-17, 06:43 AM
The one thing that all other religions do not share with Islam is the teaching, scriptural commandments, example set by the Prophet or belief that God has eternally authorized his true believers to force submission upon or else to murder and expunge the Earth of anyone who does not share the belief and submit to Islamic law. Islam is the only "religion" that has such a tenet (which may help explain global Islamic Terrorism that seeks to carry the tenet out).
Yes, never did understand that one. Why would you want converts who are forced to convert? Seems a mark of insecurity and of total stupidity. This is why I don't consider this a "religion" - just a fascist ideology which wants to take over the world. Then the "clerics" could completely control the populace. Not a rule I want to live under, thank you very much!
Yes, never did understand that one. Why would you want converts who are forced to convert? Seems a mark of insecurity and of total stupidity. This is why I don't consider this a "religion" - just a fascist ideology which wants to take over the world. Then the "clerics" could completely control the populace. Not a rule I want to live under, thank you very much!
You know you could consider it what it actually is: an extremist minority. That or you can continue hating brown people, whichever you're most comfortable with.
Wplains
05-28-17, 07:05 AM
Unfortunately, any site that has accurate info about Islam without applying PC rationalizations is going to be accused of being anti-Islam by apologists.
It's a strategy. Just say: the source isn't credible and you can dismiss any uncomfortable aspects and thereby not discuss them. Any source that even remotely criticizes Islam is now considered "not credible". Very convenient!
We live in an environment where those who condemn the ideology behind the terrorist bombings are called Islamophobes. Those who want to prevent outside populations from ushering more terrorists into the midst of peaceful countries are called "racists" and "xenophobes."
People are being manipulated by Islamophobiaphobia - the fear of telling truth, or of seeing something & saying something, then immediately being accused of being an Islamophobe
Very true. And what is wrong with being an "Islamophobe" since a phobia is a "fear and horror of"? Have not the purported followers of Islam given us ample reasons to fear and have a horror of their ideology? Even without the terrorism, just the way women are treated as second class citizens would give me plenty of reasons to fear and have a horror of it.
Nothing but PC garbage, IMO.
Wplains
05-28-17, 07:13 AM
That or you can continue hating brown people, whichever you're most comfortable with.
Ah, I didn't realize Muslims were a race now and had a color. Brown huh? Who would have thought.....
Ah, I didn't realize Muslims were a race now and had a color. Brown huh? Who would have thought.....
-1 for mentioning race for some reason when the post she quoted didn't.
She is struggling to keep consistency which is a shame because she has promise.
Movie Max
05-28-17, 09:09 AM
Also for those that are keeping score at home it's a given that Wplains is a terrible member. She never steps outside the terrorist thread and she is always hilariously angry. This makes her hard to evaluate because she loses her mind at everything which is always entertaining, for the most part she is just boring when you remember the great angerado's like Guap.. and that's pretty much it.
I didn't know it was evaluation time. Wplains is going into my favourites column.
I like members who pick their topics and don't randomly crap posts in as many threads as they can manage. That's a +1 from me.
I haven't picked up on the anger.
I enjoy many of Wplains posts, even when I don't necessarily agree with them.
Movie Max
05-28-17, 09:20 AM
At least you don't sound drunk so I don't think you'll have to mambo dogface to the banana patch! ;)
Oh Captain! My Captain! Thanks, you made my weekend. Good laughs.:rotfl:
Movie Max
05-28-17, 09:55 AM
... or you can continue hating brown people, whichever you're most comfortable with.
It doesn't work that way. Before this explosive and destructive sickness migrated west, it consumed and destroyed countries whose citizens are/were already of one skin color.
On my end, here in Canada, there is a local community fight in schools, where the media is unable to openly brand one side using the race card.
Very typical, as many of these problems and attitudes towards each other, migrated here from abroad and are now on full display.
A community divided (SCROLL DOWN PAST ANY BLANKS)
Amira Elghawaby, a spokeswoman for the National Council of Canadian Muslims, says it’s disheartening to watch sectarian strains play out.
Now that minorities have reached a critical mass – 57 per cent of the population of Peel – they’re beginning to divide and engage in identity politics,...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/a-community-divided-the-fight-over-canadian-values-threatens-to-boil-over-inpeel/article34852452/
Photo of a related protest...
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/03/13/brampton-mayor-condemns-hateful-campaign-against-muslim-prayer-in-peel-schools.html
Cobpyth
05-28-17, 10:45 AM
Answering Islam has been debunked years ago as being full of falsehoods, fake links, changing koranic verses.
Almost all of the information on it is true and can easily be verified, but yeah, one piece of text was probably once put into the wrong context and therefore all the truthful (verifiable) information on the site needs to be dismissed.
With that logic every major paper and news site that ever existed needs to be dismissed in their entirety.
No one here is opening your links. After you posted that fake news story and claimed it was real and then you were caught you lost ALL credibility (not that you had much to start with).
Ad hominem again. Like all of your posts. Captain deserves more respect than that.
You're so brainwashed and I pity you.
The irony is strong. I don't pity you however. I pity the people that try to have a constructive conversation with you about these issues.
Wplains
05-28-17, 11:19 AM
Interesting. I wonder if the South Asians protesting the Muslim prayers were white, would they have been immediately branded as racists and xenophobes? What a silly question...we all know the answer to that one. The South Asians are right, the West always makes concessions to Islam because they demand it, often violently. I don't see other religious group like Buddhist, Siks or Hindus making the same demands. When one of the last Popes (John Paul II?) visited the UK, I remember seeing a cartoon of him in a prominent national paper with a condom hanging off his nose. I also don't recall anyone saying this was xenophobic or racist or even disrespectful to Catholics. But can anyone imagine a prominent Ayatollah visiting the UK and having a like cartoon printed about him? Why, the outrage would be astronomical with street demonstrations and questions in Parliament about it.
My problem with Islam has nothing to do the color of anyone's skin (last I looked Iranians and Turks were white to name but a few) and has everything to do with the dreadful way they treat women and the horrible practices they impose on them. Of course not all Muslims are terrorists but the vast majority of Muslim countries and Muslims religionists in Western countries treat woman like second class citizens at best and and as the lowest of the low to be despised, mistreated and murdered at worst. We now have Sharia courts in the UK, FGM on a large scale and "honor" killings where none existed before. We now have young girls abused and exploited by men whom the police do not want to do anything about because they could be branded as "racists". All horrible practices aimed at one group of people and one group only: women! This is what I do not want to see imported into Europe - I don't want to see our culture subjugated in the name of some PC "multiculturism" which only seems to ever work one way. I don't want to see hard won women's rights go back to the 7th century. And if anyone has a problem with that....too bad!
Wplains
05-28-17, 11:32 AM
I didn't know it was evaluation time. Wplains is going into my favourites column.
I like members who pick their topics and don't randomly crap posts in as many threads as they can manage. That's a +1 from me.
I haven't picked up on the anger.
I enjoy many of Wplains posts, even when I don't necessarily agree with them.
Why thank you kind Sir! (There is no emoji for curtsy but consider it done). :D
PS - I didn't realize personal attacks were permitted on this forum just because people don't agree with your opinions.
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 12:31 PM
Why thank you kind Sir! (There is no emoji for curtsy but consider it done). :D
PS - I didn't realize personal attacks were permitted on this forum just because people don't agree with your opinions.
The PC school of double standards teaches that they always have the "right" to engage in personal attacks, the very same type they immediately are offended by and call to be censored when done by others. But even better - they like to take any thought or expression, no matter how objective, say it offends THEM and therefore call for it to be removed - all the while claiming THEY are the champions of free speech. ;)
Wplains
05-28-17, 12:38 PM
But even better - they like to take any thought or expression, no matter how objective, say it offends THEM and therefore call for it to be removed - all the while claiming THEY are the champions of free speech
Yes I've noticed that. Also noticed that free speech is being restricted more and more in the name of PC liberalism. Problem is, who gets to decide what is allowed and what is not?
Equilibrium
05-28-17, 02:38 PM
The one thing that all other religions do not share with Islam is the teaching, scriptural commandments, example set by the Prophet or belief that God has eternally authorized his true believers to force submission upon or else to murder and expunge the Earth of anyone who does not share the belief and submit to Islamic law. Islam is the only "religion" that has such a tenet (which may help explain global Islamic Terrorism that seeks to carry the tenet out).
Yes, never did understand that one. Why would you want converts who are forced to convert? Seems a mark of insecurity and of total stupidity. This is why I don't consider this a "religion" - just a fascist ideology which wants to take over the world. Then the "clerics" could completely control the populace. Not a rule I want to live under, thank you very much!
Posts like this are why I I just can't take you seriously.
When Islam spread, you were not FORCED to convert. You were asked to pay a tax, which by the way went to building churches, creating infrastructure, and providing protection.
Not my fault you're an islamaphobe and yes, that is a horrible thing because it is borne out of ignorance.
Equilibrium
05-28-17, 02:39 PM
Answering Islam has been debunked years ago as being full of falsehoods, fake links, changing koranic verses.
Almost all of the information on it is true and can easily be verified, but yeah, one piece of text was probably once put into the wrong context and therefore all the truthful (verifiable) information on the site needs to be dismissed.
With that logic every major paper and news site that ever existed needs to be dismissed in their entirety.
No one here is opening your links. After you posted that fake news story and claimed it was real and then you were caught you lost ALL credibility (not that you had much to start with).
Ad hominem again. Like all of your posts. Captain deserves more respect than that.
You're so brainwashed and I pity you.
The irony is strong. I don't pity you however. I pity the people that try to have a constructive conversation with you about these issues.
You just defended answering Islam. Lmao.
Dude. Just stop.
Equilibrium
05-28-17, 02:43 PM
But even better - they like to take any thought or expression, no matter how objective, say it offends THEM and therefore call for it to be removed - all the while claiming THEY are the champions of free speech
Yes I've noticed that. Also noticed that free speech is being restricted more and more in the name of PC liberalism. Problem is, who gets to decide what is allowed and what is not?
It's not PC to be respectful.
Last I saw Muslims aren't creating cartoons of Jesus or Moses to offend those religions.
And I'm sorry, since the cat is out of the bag and you guys are now just ******** on this religion allow me to tell you that YOU ARE ignorant. Is that PC enough for you?
Equilibrium
05-28-17, 02:44 PM
Why thank you kind Sir! (There is no emoji for curtsy but consider it done). :D
PS - I didn't realize personal attacks were permitted on this forum just because people don't agree with your opinions.
The PC school of double standards teaches that they always have the "right" to engage in personal attacks, the very same type they immediately are offended by and call to be censored when done by others. But even better - they like to take any thought or expression, no matter how objective, say it offends THEM and therefore call for it to be removed - all the while claiming THEY are the champions of free speech. ;)
Says the guy who quotes antimuslim websites and visits (and sources) conspiracy forums. :rolleyes:
And the second man who was stabbed standing up to a psychotic bully in Oregon has died. Strange that no one has mentioned that...
In a statement responding to Friday's attack, the Council on American-Islamic Relations said that anti-Muslim incidents increased by more than 50 per cent in the United States from 2015 to 2016 due in part to President Donald Trump's focus on militant Islamist groups and anti-immigrant rhetoric.
Equilibrium
05-28-17, 02:51 PM
Interesting. I wonder if the South Asians protesting the Muslim prayers were white, would they have been immediately branded as racists and xenophobes? What a silly question...we all know the answer to that one. The South Asians are right, the West always makes concessions to Islam because they demand it, often violently. I don't see other religious group like Buddhist, Siks or Hindus making the same demands. When one of the last Popes (John Paul II?) visited the UK, I remember seeing a cartoon of him in a prominent national paper with a condom hanging off his nose. I also don't recall anyone saying this was xenophobic or racist or even disrespectful to Catholics. But can anyone imagine a prominent Ayatollah visiting the UK and having a like cartoon printed about him? Why, the outrage would be astronomical with street demonstrations and questions in Parliament about it.
My problem with Islam has nothing to do the color of anyone's skin (last I looked Iranians and Turks were white to name but a few) and has everything to do with the dreadful way they treat women and the horrible practices they impose on them. Of course not all Muslims are terrorists but the vast majority of Muslim countries and Muslims religionists in Western countries treat woman like second class citizens at best and and as the lowest of the low to be despised, mistreated and murdered at worst. We now have Sharia courts in the UK, FGM on a large scale and "honor" killings where none existed before. We now have young girls abused and exploited by men whom the police do not want to do anything about because they could be branded as "racists". All horrible practices aimed at one group of people and one group only: women! This is what I do not want to see imported into Europe - I don't want to see our culture subjugated in the name of some PC "multiculturism" which only seems to ever work one way. I don't want to see hard won women's rights go back to the 7th century. And if anyone has a problem with that....too bad!
Women's rights.
Aside from Saudi Arabia, who by the way is the worst abuser of women's rights. What other country do you believe treats its women like second class citizens??
Last I remember Indonesia, Pakistan have female presidents. Other Muslim countries have female presidents.
So, it's easy to throw out the women's rights issue...And then ignore it when you deal with Saudi Arabia because the west can be bought with money.
You just have your own version of the truth.
Wplains
05-28-17, 02:51 PM
Posts like this are why I I just can't take you seriously.
When Islam spread, you were not FORCED to convert. You were asked to pay a tax, which by the way went to building churches, creating infrastructure, and providing protection.
Not my fault you're an islamaphobe and yes, that is a horrible thing because it is borne out of ignorance.
Asked to pay a tax? What the hell for? Provide protection? From whom?
If Islamophobe means fear and horror of Islam....absolutely! I am a woman after all. You know a second (or third) class citizen in their eyes? The lesser of the species? The one whose testimony is worth half of a man's?m
And for the record: I don't give a rat's ass if you take me seriously or not. I guess we are just about equal in our opinions of each other, hmm? :D
Equilibrium
05-28-17, 02:56 PM
Posts like this are why I I just can't take you seriously.
When Islam spread, you were not FORCED to convert. You were asked to pay a tax, which by the way went to building churches, creating infrastructure, and providing protection.
Not my fault you're an islamaphobe and yes, that is a horrible thing because it is borne out of ignorance.
Asked to pay a tax? What the hell for? Provide protection? From whom?
If Islamophobe means fear and horror of Islam....absolutely! I am a woman after all. You know a second (or third) class citizen in their eyes? The lesser of the species? The one whose testimony is worth half of a man's?
What do you mean from whom? Are you trying to act dumb?
You pay a tax now don't you, what does it go to?
Same thing, except in the 7th-10th century. A period it seems you know nothing about. No one was forced to convert and indeed many didn't. But because they would be provided with all the benefits that came along with being incorporated into the islamic empire they were asked to pay an income tax. In return, you were protected from invading armies, you were protected from crime, your churches, temples were renovated.
Equilibrium
05-28-17, 02:58 PM
And the second man who was stabbed standing up to a psychotic bully in Oregon has died. Strange that no one has mentioned that...
In a statement responding to Friday's attack, the Council on American-Islamic Relations said that anti-Muslim incidents increased by more than 50 per cent in the United States from 2015 to 2016 due in part to President Donald Trump's focus on militant Islamist groups and anti-immigrant rhetoric.
Those guys won't comment here because it doesn't fit their agenda. Their conspiracy and antimuslim websites make stuff like this seem heroic. It's sad.
Women's rights.
Aside from Saudi Arabia, who by the way is the worst abuser of women's rights. What other country do you believe treats its women like second class citizens??
Last I remember Indonesia, Pakistan have female presidents. Other Muslim countries have female presidents.
So, it's easy to throw alone the women's rights issue...And then ignore it when you deal with Saudi Arabia beside the west can be bought with money.
You just have your own version of the truth.
Just the usual misinformation, Equi. And once again, nothing to do with terrorism but a return to the usual Islam bashing. Female Muslim leaders throughout history is pretty easy to find.
Wplains
05-28-17, 02:59 PM
It's not PC to be respectful.
Last I saw Muslims aren't creating cartoons of Jesus or Moses to offend those religions.
And I'm sorry, since the cat is out of the bag and you guys are now just ******** on this religion allow me to tell you that YOU ARE ignorant. Is that PC enough for you?
You forgot to say "in your opinion". And I told you, I despise PC!
Those guys won't comment here because it doesn't fit their agenda. Their conspiracy and antimuslim websites make stuff like this seem heroic. It's sad.
Yes I'm seeing comments on the net that saying he is a lone wolf and mentally ill excuses him from murder. Utter rot. do they think there's some sort of competition between what kind of murderer is worse - A singleton or one who belongs in a gang? Every single time.
And as usual, state sanctioned terrorism of the innocent in Philippines in the name of 'collateral damage' wont get a mention so I'll just park this in here.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/05/28/thousands-trapped-army-battles-militants-southern-philippines
You just defended answering Islam. Lmao.
It's simply not a valid response to say "that source is discredited" and then act as if you don't need to answer anything coming from it, particularly when, as Cob pointed out, they're often just citing other sources, anyway.
Dude. Just stop.
What needs to stop are these condescending addendums and extracurricular jabs. They serve no purpose other than making the argument uglier and less substantive. Good, fact-based arguments don't need them.
-
My preference is always for people to self-regulate in controversial discussions, and to that end I've asked people in this thread to reign it in several times. It seems to have made very little difference. So it's going to be something close to zero tolerance from now on: any post with a whiff of ad hominem is getting removed.
Equilibrium
05-28-17, 03:25 PM
You just defended answering Islam. Lmao.
It's simply not a valid response to say "that source is discredited" and then act as if you don't need to answer anything coming from it, particularly when, as Cob pointed out, they're often just citing other sources, anyway.
Dude. Just stop.
What needs to stop are these condescending addendums and extracurricular jabs. They serve no purpose other than making the argument uglier and less substantive. Good, fact-based arguments don't need them.
-
My preference is always for people to self-regulate in controversial discussions, and to that end I've asked people in this thread to reign it in several times. It seems to have made very little difference. So it's going to be something close to zero tolerance from now on: any post with a whiff of ad hominem is getting removed.
Just for the record. Attacking a religion and supporting it with conspiracy theory forums and anti Muslim websites is not the way to go either especially dive I've done my best to stick to historical truth. How can we carry on a conversation when in every post I have to deal with people using known hateful sources as their back-up.
And if this is the road you're going to go down maybe I'll start posting KKK material, ISIS material, NAZI material in this website since apparently nothing is off limits.
I like members who pick their topics and don't randomly crap posts in as many threads as they can manage.
That's interesting. Maybe you should apprise yourself of Yoda's latest post, because all I've seen that you've done since I've been in this thread is toss comments around just like that, or hijack. If you dont like my posts, stop reading them rather than carry on with this constant angst which you've been carrying since I arrived on this board.
So, care to comment on the 2 Americans stabbed to death on the weekend? How about the threat of thousands of innocent people to be used as collateral damage in Philippines?
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 03:39 PM
It's not PC to be respectful.
Last I saw Muslims aren't creating cartoons of Jesus or Moses to offend those religions.
And I'm sorry, since the cat is out of the bag and you guys are now just ******** on this religion allow me to tell you that YOU ARE ignorant. Is that PC enough for you?
Cartoons would be far preferable to continuous global terrorism, suicide / homicide bombings, flying planes into buildings, rape gangs, mass beheadings, modern slavery, mowing crowds down with trucks, attacking Jews in the streets, wholesale slaughter of Hindus, murdering Buddhists, carrying out a Holocaust on Christians, burning churches, synagogues and temples, shooting little girls through the head for attending school, torturing and throwing homosexuals off buildings, blowing up school buses of children.
Oh well, at least they're not drawing cartoons! Holy Allah, THAT would be just awful! What a wonderful ideology that so respects other religions to the point where they would not draw cartoons about them - just slaughter them all over the world.
Movie Max
05-28-17, 03:41 PM
And as usual, state sanctioned terrorism of the innocent in Philippines in the name of 'collateral damage' wont get a mention so I'll just park this in here.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/05/28/thousands-trapped-army-battles-militants-southern-philippines
How about the threat of thousands of innocent people to be used as collateral damage in Philippines?
Nonsense!
https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1707603#post1707603
Wplains
05-28-17, 03:52 PM
Women's rights.
Aside from Saudi Arabia, who by the way is the worst abuser of women's rights. What other country do you believe treats its women like second class citizens??
Last I remember Indonesia, Pakistan have female presidents. Other Muslim countries have female presidents.
So, it's easy to throw alone the women's rights issue...And then ignore it when you deal with Saudi Arabia beside the west can be bought with money.
You just have your own version of the truth.
http://reports.weforum.org/global-gender-gap-report-2016/rankings/
I suggest you have a look at which countries are at the bottom of the ranking. I find it really funny you are trying to convince me Islam has a good track record as far as women's rights are concerned.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/raza-habib-raja/women-in-muslim-countries_b_13741944.html
Pakistan’s dismal rankings in other subcategories also reveals that merely having female legislators does not essentially translate into improvement for women in other areas
It also does not reflect the everyday misogynist and sexist behavior which any Pakistani woman can vouch that she routinely faces.
I also think that gender imbalance is a general issue for Muslim countries and not just Pakistan. If we see the rankings closely we will find that Muslim countries are right at the bottom.
out of 144 countries ranked in 2016, not even a single Muslim majority country makes it into the top 50.
And the lady who posted the above article is probably a huge "Islamophobe" (even though everything indicates she is from Pakistan) but what she has to say is interesting nonetheless.
Equilibrium
05-28-17, 03:52 PM
It's not PC to be respectful.
Last I saw Muslims aren't creating cartoons of Jesus or Moses to offend those religions.
And I'm sorry, since the cat is out of the bag and you guys are now just ******** on this religion allow me to tell you that YOU ARE ignorant. Is that PC enough for you?
Cartoons would be far preferable to continuous global terrorism, suicide / homicide bombings, flying planes into buildings, rape gangs, mass beheadings, modern slavery, mowing crowds down with trucks, attacking Jews in the streets, wholesale slaughter of Hindus, murdering Buddhists, carrying out a Holocaust on Christians, burning churches, synagogues and temples, shooting little girls through the head for attending school, torturing and throwing homosexuals off buildings, blowing up school buses of children.
Oh well, at least they're not drawing cartoons! Holy Allah, THAT would be just awful! What a wonderful ideology that so respects other religions to the point where they would not draw cartoons about them - just slaughter them all over the world.
More like 99% of Muslims don't insult other religions and have nothing to do with terrorism. Then 1% are fanatics and commit terrorist attacks.
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 03:53 PM
What I wouldn't give for a Jesus-mocking cartoon instead of 22 dead (many children) and 60 people with their arms and legs blown off in Manchester.
If only we could somehow convince Islamic Fundamentalists to express their extremist ideology of genocide on paper rather in the continuous terror attacks on the innocent.
You come along and "All Muslims are terrorists because their religion tells them to be"
:rolleyes:
Cap and I dont see eye to eye on this topic but be fair, Equi. He has said a number of times that most Muslims just get on with things. I have never seen him say "all Muslims are terrorists".
Equilibrium
05-28-17, 03:57 PM
You come along and "All Muslims are terrorists because their religion tells them to be"
:rolleyes:
Cap and I dont see eye to eye on this topic but be fair, Equi. He has said a number of times that most Muslims just get on with things. I have never seen him say "all Muslims are terrorists".
Fair enough. Edited my original post.
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 03:58 PM
More like 99% of Muslims don't insult other religions and have nothing to do with terrorism. Then 1% are fanatics and commit terrorist attacks.
You come along and "All Muslims are terrorists because their religion tells them to be"
:rolleyes:
BZZZZT! Thanks for playing!
I want Yoda to note this (and for Allah's sake PLEASE don't remove it - I NEVER request or desire ANYONE's posts removed). Instead, let it serve, once again, as a total misrepresentation of something that was never said by anyone on this thread from a poster who says they're being perfectly historical.
I'd refer back to one of the video's posted yesterday - and how the young lady says that this accusation is made by apologists when virtually no one criticizing Islam says or believes this (and she adds, "I thought we were beyond this" - referring to the ridiculousness of apologist arguments and tactics.)
Equilibrium
05-28-17, 04:00 PM
More like 99% of Muslims don't insult other religions and have nothing to do with terrorism. Then 1% are fanatics and commit terrorist attacks.
You come along and "All Muslims are terrorists because their religion tells them to be"
:rolleyes:
BZZZZT! Thanks for playing!
I want Yoda to note this (and for Allah's sake PLEASE don't remove it - I NEVER request or desire ANYONE's posts removed). Instead, let it serve, once again, as a total misrepresentation of something that was never said by anyone on this thread from a poster who says they're being perfectly historical.
I'd refer back to one of the video's posted yesterday - and how the young lady says that this accusation is made by apologists when virtually no one criticizing Islam says or believes this (and she adds, "I thought we were beyond this" - referring to the ridiculousness of apologist arguments and tactics.)
I removed that part before you posted this.
And stop saying "thank allah" bla blah because you're clearly doing it to be offensive.
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 04:02 PM
I removed that part before you posted this.
And stop saying "thank allah" bla blah because you're clearly doing it to be offensive.
We agreed Allah is just a name for "the God." No guidelines broken for thanking God here, is there? And, as an Agnostic, I'm open to any and all possibilities. ;)
How can we carry on a conversation when in every post I have to deal with people using known hateful sources as their back-up.
You carry on a conversation by explaining why a source is wrong. And, again, "hateful sources" (whether true or not) is not a response when the source is just a go-between for another source, as Cob already pointed out. In those cases, you obviously should address the primary source.
And it's one thing to patiently and substantively address sources like this, only to finally give up. It's quite another to dismiss them out of hand from the beginning, and then in fact expand to dismissing any source they so much as reference.
And if this is the road you're going to go down maybe I'll start paying KKK material, ISIS material, NAZI material in this website since apparently nothing is off limits.
Unless the source in question is advocating genocide, I'm guessing this isn't an appropriate simile. Pretty huge difference from being biased, inaccurate, or even outright dishonest, and being akin to hate speech that has to be barred from discussion. And if it is, then that's something that has to be meaningfully established, not just alluded to as something that Everyone Knows (a sentiment that is usually restricted to whatever sub-culture it's coming from).
Wplains
05-28-17, 04:16 PM
What I wouldn't give for a Jesus-mocking cartoon instead of 22 dead (many children) and 60 people with their arms and legs blown off in Manchester.
If only we could somehow convince Islamic Fundamentalists to express their extremist ideology of genocide on paper rather in the continuous terror attacks on the innocent.
Some news sites are now not using the term "Islamic terrorism" because it is being considered too offensive. More PC crap to convince us white is black and black is maybe various shades of grey....
I've never been bothered one wit by cartoons about Jesus or Christians.
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 04:19 PM
Yes I'm seeing comments on the net that saying he is a lone wolf and mentally ill excuses him from murder. Utter rot. do they think there's some sort of competition between what kind of murderer is worse - A singleton or one who belongs in a gang? Every single time.
What's ironic is when I first started reading this post I thought it was about the Manchester bomber (I see that it is not). But the "Every single time" comment sounded like an observation on all the apologists who come out and start trying to rationalize Islamic terror attacks after they occur with their zealous defence of the ideology that spawns them.
On this topic - the ring of suspects now surrounding the Manchester attack I believe is up to 12 - so very poignant when applied to Dani's thoughts regarding how people & the media initially react to attacks.
The fact that the Manchester attack was formulated by a ring of Jihadists ranging from Libya to England demonstrates that the degrees of separation between "radical Islamic terrorists" and "moderate Muslim community" may be less than anyone can know or guess.
What's ironic is when I first started reading this post I thought it was about the Manchester bomber (I see that it is not). But the "Every single time" comment sounded like an observation on all the apologists who come out and start trying to rationalize Islamic terror attacks after they occur with their zealous defence of the ideology that spawns them.
On this topic - the ring of suspects now surrounding the Manchester attack I believe is up to 12 - so very poignant when applied to Dani's thoughts regarding how people & the media initially react to attacks.
The fact that the Manchester attack was formulated by a ring of Jihadists ranging from Libya to England demonstrates that the degrees of separation between "radical Islamic terrorists" and "moderate Muslim community" may be less than anyone can know or guess.
No, today's comments that I referred to are about Portland, but every time 'lone wolf' comes up and 'mental illness' some people think their acts of terrorism are being excused by the media. That's not the case at all.
And 14 so far but I think 2 teens were released. That maniac was certainly not a lone wolf.
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 04:32 PM
No, today's comments that I referred to are about Portland, but every time 'lone wolf' comes up and 'mental illness' some people think their acts of terrorism are being excused by the media. That's not the case at all.
And 14 so far but I think 2 teens were released. That maniac was certainly not a lone wolf.
On this I agree. In many cases I think the excuse of mental illness should be treated like another illness - rabies. If such illness causes a person to attack the innocent or commit mass murder, then like a rabid animal, they should be "put down."
(And I'm not a strong supporter of capital punishment - only in extreme cases where there is no possibility of doubt of guilt.)
On this I agree. In many cases I think the excuse of mental illness should be treated like another illness - rabies. If such illness causes a person to attack the innocent or commit mass murder, then like a rabid animal, they should be "put down."
(And I'm not a strong supporter of capital punishment - only in extreme cases where there is no possibility of doubt of guilt.)
I cant comment on that because we dont have the death penalty here but I agree with your sentiment regarding rabies for murderers.
I had an argument with a very good buddy on imdb about calling the florida nightclub shooter mentally ill. He said he's not mentally ill, he's a terrorist. I simply said - did what he did look normal to you??? I think all terrorists are mentally unhinged. What I want to know is why young people born in a new country becoming disenfranchised and radicalised in the first place. The recent suicide bomber in Iraq was british born. Freaking why. I wonder how much study is going into this at the moment. Still confuses me an Aus born young guy who lived in a very expensive waterfront suburb and went to a very good school decided to go to Syria a few months ago, ended up arrested on terrorism charges and has never been heard of since. Why was his privileged life so crappy he got that into his head.
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 04:48 PM
I cant comment on that because we dont have the death penalty here but I agree with your sentiment regarding rabies for murderers.
I had an argument with a very good buddy on imdb about calling the florida nightclub shooter mentally ill. He said he's not mentally ill, he's a terrorist. I simply said - did what he did look normal to you??? I think all terrorists are mentally unhinged. What I want to know is why young people born in a new country becoming disenfranchised and radicalised in the first place. The recent suicide bomber in Iraq was british born. Freaking why. I wonder how much study is going into this at the moment. Still confuses me an Aus born young guy who lived in a very expensive waterfront suburb and went to a very good school decided to go to Syria a few months ago, ended up arrested on terrorism charges and has never been heard of since. Why was his privileged life so crappy he got that into his head.
Good questions. And I have some theories that might explain some (but obviously not all) cases... but I don't think you'd like them...
...because they involve the idea of certain ideological, religious and cultural teachings, indoctrination, and home or community influences using questionable tenets and beliefs.
Good questions. And I have some theories that might explain some (but obviously not all) cases... but I don't think you'd like them...
...because they involve the idea of certain ideological, religious and cultural teachings, indoctrination, and home or community influences using questionable tenets and beliefs.
Yeah I know you think that and that's fine. I'm thinking more along the lines of what happens in the first place to make them want to leave their home and turn to murder. It's like kids who go on a rampage and say violent movies, music or games made them do it. That is severely mentally unbalanced.
Wplains
05-28-17, 07:05 PM
The fact that the Manchester attack was formulated by a ring of Jihadists ranging from Libya to England demonstrates that the degrees of separation between "radical Islamic terrorists" and "moderate Muslim community" may be less than anyone can know or guess.
I've seen this hypothesis beginning to take root. It's very hard to believe no one in these tight knit communities (and crammed into tiny,tiny houses where the walls are paper thin) don't know anything about what their neighbors are up to. Quite a few probably do but refuse to shop them to the authorities. Hard to believe you could stock up on bomb making materials and weapons and no one noticed anything out of the ordinary. .
Then we have the fear of being thought racist. There was a lady in the Manchester arena who reported a man acting suspiciously to the security guards. She thinks it was the terrorist. Instead of taking her seriously, they told her off and inferred she was being a racist. I wonder how they feel now when they see the pictures of all those dead kids?
Don Schneider
05-28-17, 08:14 PM
More like 99% of Muslims don't insult other religions and have nothing to do with terrorism. Then 1% are fanatics and commit terrorist attacks.
One percent (probably overstated, maybe less than .5%, but even so) is a huge number of terrorists or potential ones. What do you propose that nations do in light of such a menace? During the IRA bombing campaign in the U.K., at least the terrorists had a coherent demand: Britain out of Northern Ireland. What exactly are the Islamic terrorists' demands? This is going to go on until they accomplish…what?
One percent (probably overstated, maybe less than .5%, but even so) is a huge number of terrorists or potential ones. What do you propose that nations do in light of such a menace? During the IRA bombing campaign in the U.K., at least the terrorists had a coherent demand: Britain out of Northern Ireland. What exactly are the Islamic terrorists demands? This is going to go one until they accomplish…what?
I dont know who this group is but interesting article. I have only read that entry so far, not the others indexed.
https://www.scenesofreason.com/isis-explained-what-does-islamic-state-want/
Don Schneider
05-28-17, 08:38 PM
I dont know who this group is but interesting article. I have only read that entry so far, not the others indexed.
https://www.scenesofreason.com/isis-explained-what-does-islamic-state-want/
So ISIS wants an Islamic caliphate to which all Muslims adhere allegiance and embrace Islamic religious law? Does this include Muslims in the West? Is Europe going to capitulate to this demand even if a significant number of Muslims living there come to embrace the concept? If not, then I ask again, what are they going to do about it? Live with terrorism indefinitely? That’s what it amounts to, doesn’t it?
That's what I got from the article. I doubt anyone is going to give in to it because moderate Muslims themselves don't even want it. Utterly ludicrous and you know, sociopathically insane. My own personal take on Isis - I just think they're lunatics who like murdering people. As Captain said earlier they have a similar brain disorder to rabies.
Captain Steel
05-28-17, 10:19 PM
That's what I got from the article. I doubt anyone is going to give in to it because moderate Muslims themselves don't even want it. Utterly ludicrous and you know, sociopathically insane. My own personal take on Isis - I just think they're lunatics who like murdering people. As Captain said earlier they have a similar brain disorder to rabies.
This thread is like some sort of magnet, isn't it?
For the record, Captain is one of the few good members here.
I agree, he was nice when i spoke to him😁
Movie Max
05-29-17, 09:50 AM
There was a lady in the Manchester arena who reported a man acting suspiciously to the security guards. She thinks it was the terrorist. Instead of taking her seriously, they told her off and inferred she was being a racist.
Must toe the line...
MI5, does the 5 mean they must be told at least 5 times?
REPORT: UK security services were warned 5 times about Manchester attacker Salman Abedi
He told friends "being a suicide bomber was okay," something that led them to contact an anti-terrorism hotline run by the British government.
A community worker who knew Abedi had been worried he was "supporting terrorism" and had expressed the view that "being a suicide bomber was ok," the BBC reported late on Wednesday (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40019135).
Didsbury Mosque — attended by Abedi in the past — contacted the Home Office's Prevent programme about Abedi. Prevent is an anti-radicalisation programme.
Two people who knew Abedi at college made calls about him to the authorities, the BBC added.http://uk.businessinsider.com/security-services-warned-about-salman-abedi-five-times-2017-5
Stirchley
05-29-17, 01:28 PM
No I agree. But the country could have been completely overwhelmed. They were running out of money, arms, munitions, etc. Britain was virtually fighting the war alone in Europe as most all other countries had been invaded. Then US stepped in with the Lend Lease agreement to help out before they joined the war.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge admirer of Churchill - I consider him the greatest statesman of the 20th century.
Totally agree. My father's generation always complained that America came in too late, etc., etc., but without them the outcome of WWII would have been radically different.
Loved Churchill's comment post Battle of Britain. He was asked Is this the beginning of the end? No, he replied, but it is the end of the beginning.
Stirchley
05-29-17, 01:37 PM
During the IRA bombing campaign in the U.K., at least the terrorists had a coherent demand: Britain out of Northern Ireland.
Never thought I would see someone praising the IRA.
I don't think you've seen it even now. Seems like he was simply pointing out the distinction between dealing with an enemy whose demands are amorphous (or even just punitive), and dealing with one whose demands are known and specific.
Never thought I would see someone praising the IRA.
My father supported the IRA. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist, as they say, but as Yoda said, Don didn't give an opinion. He was comparing IRA's demand to that of Daesh.
Wplains
05-29-17, 02:20 PM
Must toe the line...
MI5, does the 5 mean they must be told at least 5 times?
REPORT: UK security services were warned 5 times about Manchester attacker Salman Abedi
http://uk.businessinsider.com/security-services-warned-about-salman-abedi-five-times-2017-5
Well, perhaps they didn't want to seem "racist" and importune the dear chap? Seems to be the norm in this crazy PC world we live in....:rolleyes:
I'll bet though, if someone had been denounced as making "racist" comments about a certain religion, the police would be there in a shot! I mean what else do they have to do? It's not as if they have any serious crimes to investigate, now is it?
Stirchley
05-29-17, 03:01 PM
My father supported the IRA.
Going to pretend I didn't see this post & move out of this thread toute suite.
Going to pretend I didn't see this post & move out of this thread toute suite.
Why? He was traumatised for life after seeing the ballistics reports at the Widgery Tribunal. He supported the IRA, as did a lot of people of his generation, and he never forgave what the military did to young people on that horrific day. Not much I can do about his opinion after what he saw. :shrug: It was probably also cemented in his mind when he walked out of a pub that night and was almost shot by soldiers. No point pretending you didnt see it. Once again, it's not like I gave my own opinion on the IRA.
And that sums up the insanity of Daesh and shows why they are not observant Muslims or representatives of that ideology. Killing innocent Muslims in an icecream parlor during the holy month of Ramadan. Freaks!
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/05/car-bombing-baghdad-kills-10-wounds-22-170529230710218.html
Captain Steel
05-30-17, 10:04 PM
And that sums up the insanity of Daesh and shows why they are not observant Muslims or representatives of that ideology. Killing innocent Muslims in an icecream parlor during the holy month of Ramadan. Freaks!
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/05/car-bombing-baghdad-kills-10-wounds-22-170529230710218.html
Umm... I agree with the sentiment, but as far as representing the ideology: Muslims have been killing Muslims (along with people of all other religions) for 1400 years, so it indeed does seem to be an inherent PART of the ideology.
I won't link sites because it might get some people upset, but there are sites that keep a running tally of Islamic attacks on Muslims (and others) during Ramadan every year. And every year it is a frenzy of violence (that's been occurring long before anyone ever heard of Daesh). Today I heard a radio show on this very subject and they referred to a site we won't mention that tracks what they call the "Ramadan Bomb-a-thon."
I don't know if the Washington Times is considered one of the "conspiracy theory" websites I've been accused of linking or following (this site and eBay are the only ones I actually "follow"), but it's the first that comes up in a search for Ramadan attacks:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/30/ramadans-here-let-the-killing-begin/
Here we go again, round and round. Daesh who claimed ownership of that attack on kids in an icecream parlor do NOT represent Islam. That has been discussed in this thread as recent as yesterday but you just want to keep banging on that Islamist terrorists DO represent the religion. Jaysus. You couldnt even comment on the dead kids. One of them was a 12 year old kid from my own country visiting her sick grandpa which is expected of Muslims during Ramadan. Oh no...just go back to the usual diatribe.
Captain Steel
05-30-17, 10:23 PM
Here we go again, round and round. Daesh who claimed ownership of that attack on kids in an icecream parlor do NOT represent Islam. That has been discussed in this thread as recent as yesterday but you just want to keep banging on that Islamist terrorists DO represent the religion. Jaysus. You couldnt even comment on the dead kids. One of them was a 12 year old kid from my own country visiting her sick grandpa which is expected of Muslims during Ramadan. Oh no...just go back to the usual diatribe.
Well, yes... because people keep denying there's any link whatsoever between Islamic Terrorism and Islam. I used to joke that soon Obama was going to make a speech saying "There is absolutely nothing in Islam that has ANYTHING to do in any way with Islam."
Perhaps if a beginning point in combating or preventing terrorism could at least be acknowledging the truth about the ideology that causes it, there might be less dead kids.
As the article said, body counts speak louder than all the people denying what Islam teaches (and what many Muslims believe and what some Muslims carry out).
Dear sweet baby jesus. This thread was set up for you by the OP and I can see why.
RIP to the murdered and injured by psychopaths (now tallying at approx 100) and their families.
Captain Steel
05-30-17, 10:46 PM
Dear sweet baby jesus. This thread was set up for you by the OP and I can see why.
RIP to the murdered and injured by psychopaths (now tallying at approx 100) and their families.
Actually... (I think multiple people went over this a few times) the thread was set up by the OP so I (or others) wouldn't be making a new thread for every new terror attack. I don't mean to speak for the OP, but I'm pretty sure I got his intent from multiple explanations. (sooo... I guess you are kind of correct in a way, depending on how you look at it - the OP set this thread up so that every new attack could be confined to one thread, not just for me, but for anyone wishing to report or discuss.)
Actually... (I think multiple people went over this a few times) the thread was set up by the OP so I (or others) wouldn't be making a new thread for every new terror attack. I don't mean to speak for the OP, but I'm pretty sure I got his intent from multiple explanations. (sooo... I guess you are kind of correct in a way, depending on how you look at it - the OP set this thread up so that every new attack could be confined to one thread, not just for me, but for anyone wishing to report or discuss.)
RIP to the murdered and injured by psychopaths (now tallying at approx 100) and their families.
Captain Steel
05-30-17, 10:58 PM
RIP to the murdered and injured by psychopaths (now tallying at approx 100) and their families.
I share you feelings, Dani. This is a discussion thread and discussing does not equal insensitivity (I take it, that's what you were trying to intimate by the reposting of your already expressed sentiments.)
Not directing this at anyone, but I can't help but think about this when I hear condolences after terror attacks. Nothing wrong with them, but they don't serve any real purpose towards preventing the next terror attack.
Some may find this idea offensive (and not just for the foul language)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTmCxbcRXs4
Dear sweet baby jesus. This thread was set up for you by the OP and I can see why.
RIP to the murdered and injured by psychopaths (now tallying at approx 100) and their families.
This thread was set by me so that anyone can post anything on terror . What can i do if captain steel is more persistent on the thread .
BTW , you can also post about the alleged 'atrocities' that Pakistan claims are being committed by Indian security forces in Kashmir by calling them as terror , since you have so much sympathy for their cause and call kashmiris as pakistanis . Who's stopping you ?
One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist,
Yeah . Kashmiri militants are terrorists for me and freedom fighters for you .
Yeah . Kashmiri militants are terrorists for me and freedom fighters for you .
Your constant claims that I am a terrorist sympathiser since I've been in this thread are not only highly offensive but downright ridiculous. Much like your other claims about me which are absolutely ludicrous.
Hey ash, while we're talking about state sanctioned terrorism, why did the documentary India's Daughter get banned in your country?
Your constant claims that I am a terrorist sympathiser since I've been in this thread are not only highly offensive but downright ridiculous. Much like your other claims about me which are absolutely ludicrous.
Hey ash, while we're talking about state sanctioned terrorism, why did the documentary India's Daughter get banned in your country?
Your claim that i started this thread with a specific purpose of targeting islam is similarly ridiculous and offensive .
As far as 'india's daughter' is concerned , i have started an entire thread on it in the past----
https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=40234
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/31/asia/kabul-explosion-hits-diplomatic-area/
Before dani8 accuses me of not posting about terror attacks in islamic nations again , let me post about this kabul attack .
India, where all life is sacred unless you were born a girl.
And how s this, ash? Look in your own back yard first, mate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_abuses_in_Jammu_and_Kashmir
India, where all life is sacred unless you were born a girl.
And how s this, ash? Look in your own back yard first, mate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_abuses_in_Jammu_and_Kashmir
I bet you will not say a word about saudi arabia's treatment of women while reserving your venom for india .
You will doubtlessly bring up the kashmir issue considering your sympathy for pakistan sponsered terror in kashmir .Maybe you should read about the genocide unleashed by pakistan when bangladesh tried to get liberated from pakistani clutches .
I bet you will not say a word about saudi arabia's treatment of women while reserving your venom for india .
You will doubtlessly bring up the kashmir issue considering your sympathy for pakistan sponsered terror in kashmir .Maybe you should read about the genocide unleashed by pakistan when bangladesh tried to get liberated from pakistani clutches .
I have no idea what you're on about this time. Care to comment about the innocent children killed? No, you just want to keep pushing your wheelbarrow. Very sad.
I have no idea what you're on about this time. Care to comment about the innocent children killed? No, you just want to keep pushing your wheelbarrow. Very sad.
I had stopped posting on this thread and was in 'read only' mode until i saw the post in which you said that i had set up this thread for captain steel to target one specific religion .
Wplains
05-31-17, 06:39 AM
Well, yes... because people keep denying there's any link whatsoever between Islamic Terrorism and Islam. I used to joke that soon Obama was going to make a speech saying "There is absolutely nothing in Islam that has ANYTHING to do in any way with Islam."
Perhaps if a beginning point in combating or preventing terrorism could at least be acknowledging the truth about the ideology that causes it, there might be less dead kids.
As the article said, body counts speak louder than all the people denying what Islam teaches (and what many Muslims believe and what some Muslims carry out).
LOL at the Obama joke!!
Perhaps if their religious leaders said their scriptures which exhorts them to kill "nonbelievers" and others are NOT to be taken literally, it might help?. But they have this quaint view that anything their so-called prophet said is "sacred" and never to be changed right?
BTW, has anyone ever thought what art would be like if radical Islam ruled the world? No more paintings, no more sculpture, movies and theater (if they were even allowed) highly censored. Can anyone imagine the Sistine Chapel turned to rubble and all the world's greatest artists consigned to the rubbish heap? It's frightening to think what they would do in Egypt if they ever got the upper hand there.
So anyone who wants can go right ahead and post hashtags on social media, and post their "pray for (insert latest Islamic atrocity here)" because it won't do a blind bit of good until Islam reforms itself like Christianity did.
Wplains
05-31-17, 06:48 AM
Originally Posted by Dani8
India, where all life is sacred unless you were born a girl.
And how s this, ash? Look in your own back yard first, mate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_...mu_and_Kashmir
I bet you will not say a word about saudi arabia's treatment of women while reserving your venom for india .
You will doubtlessly bring up the kashmir issue considering your sympathy for pakistan sponsered terror in kashmir .Maybe you should read about the genocide unleashed by pakistan when bangladesh tried to get liberated from pakistani clutches
Hmm, the "all life is sacred unless you were born a girl" quote fits Islam to a T.
Movie Max
05-31-17, 10:08 AM
Kaboom in Kabul:facepalm: So much for the secure areas.
The bomb exploded in the diplomatic quarter near the German Embassy and the Afghan presidential palace.
CNN
Captain Steel
05-31-17, 12:03 PM
Ramadan is off to a big start as usual.
Wplains
05-31-17, 01:08 PM
Ramadan is off to a big start as usual.
Seems to me bombs going off in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. is an almost daily occurrence. :sick:
Ramadan is off to a big start as usual.
And again, you miss the whole point. You seem to think Ramadan is about muslims killing people. WTH? Daesh are not religious people and they are certainly NOT practising Ramadan by running around blowing people up. Why you don't get this is beyond me.
I bet you will not say a word about saudi arabia's treatment of women while reserving your venom for india .
You will doubtlessly bring up the kashmir issue considering your sympathy for pakistan sponsered terror in kashmir .Maybe you should read about the genocide unleashed by pakistan when bangladesh tried to get liberated from pakistani clutches .
Dude, I think you should stick to your fanfic if you're so desperate to keep making garbage up. What venom for India? I'll give you 1 rupee for every comment you can find where I say I hate India. If I hated it I wouldnt have gone back there. No brainer, but no surprises.
As for this comment
your sympathy for pakistan sponsered terror in kashmir
Truly pathetic, defamatory and outright ludicrous. You seem to have a major comprehension problem, or simply live to see things in posts that arent there.
Captain Steel
05-31-17, 02:57 PM
And again, you miss the whole point. You seem to think Ramadan is about muslims killing people. WTH? Daesh are not religious people and they are certainly NOT practising Ramadan by running around blowing people up. Why you don't get this is beyond me.
What is the "whole point"? That not all Muslims are terrorists?
Yes, everyone's acknowledged that. We get that. It's the caveat we must repeat every time we talk about Islamic Terrorism which, after it's stated, the apologists ignore having heard it and then accuse us of not acknowledging that fact and making broad generalizations of absolutes.
I get that Daesh are Islamic Terrorists - what is it about this fact that you don't get?
They're not committing terror in the name of Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Vishnu, Zoroaster, Lao Tzu or Confucius, but in the name of Allah and his prophet Muhammad (i.e. in the name of Islam.)
Like it or not, the Islamic State is Islamic - they are practicing a literal interpretation of Islam, and most Imam's would point out that Islam is not a religion of parables or metaphors, but that it is the inerrant word of God and that Muhammad is the "perfect" example that all must follow - thus, there is no interpretation of Islam except a literal one.
And indeed, Islamic Terrorists ARE celebrating Ramadan by running around and blowing people up - they do this continually, but seem to ramp up the attacks during Ramadan (thus, people calling it Bombathon).
Don't forget that Daesh is just one of hundreds of major Islamic Terrorist groups (they are just the latest one making the most noise and making the most progress territory-wise). Daesh comes out of former, yet still practicing terror groups: Muslim Brotherhood > Al Qaida > Al Qaida in Iraq > ISIS.
And many investigations have found that out of hundreds of Islamic Terror groups, support and funding for many can be traced back to conglomerates as large as Islamic governments (like Iran & Saudi Arabia) down to such local level associations as Muslim activist groups, civil rights organizations, businesses, communities, cultural centers, and mosques. And many of these sources of terror are considered part of the "moderate Muslims community."
tl;dr.
This is your comment I was responding to
Ramadan is off to a big start as usual.
Here you go, cap. Try to let this sink in before your next attempt to claim daesh are told to do it according to the book.
https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/207047-Religious-scholars-issue-unanimous-fatwa-declaring-suicide-attacks-Haram
And further to that, why do you think the media, scholars, statesman etc have turned to using the correct term rather than islamic state? I'll give you a hint - because those lunatics do not represent Islam anymore than white supremacists represent christianity.
Wplains
05-31-17, 03:19 PM
thus, there is no interpretation of Islam except a literal one.
And therein, I think, lies the problem. Since the moderate Iman insist the so-called prophet's words are perfect and must be interpreted literally - well then, that's what the terrorist do. You can't really have it both ways - not interpreted literally when it's abhorrent violence but interpreted literally when the clergy want to control the populace by telling them what is supposedly "right" and "wrong". I mean, they seem to still spend millions of hours debating what essentially comes down to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
And many investigations have found that out of hundreds of Islamic Terror groups, support and funding for many can be traced back to conglomerates as large as Islamic governments (like Iran & Saudi Arabia) down to such local level associations such as Muslim activist groups, civil rights organizations, businesses, communities, cultural centers, and mosques. And many of these sources of terror are considered part of the "moderate Muslims community."
I think many people are beginning to realise that. There are many more supposedly "moderate" organisations which contribute (perhaps not in a direct way) to a lot of these terrorist groups. Just the polls in which quite a large number of people in Islamic countries think terrorists attacks are "somewhat" (if not completely) justified goes to show that the "moderate" Muslims are not as big a majority as many would like us to believe.
Captain Steel
05-31-17, 03:44 PM
Here you go, cap. Try to let this sink in before your next attempt to claim daesh are told to do it according to the book.
https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/207047-Religious-scholars-issue-unanimous-fatwa-declaring-suicide-attacks-Haram
And further to that, why do you think the media, scholars, statesman etc have turned to using the correct term rather than islamic state? I'll give you a hint - because those lunatics do not represent Islam anymore than white supremacists represent christianity.
I applaud any Muslims condemning Islamic terrorism, but out of almost 2 billion Muslims, they could only get 31 "scholars" to publicly condemn terrorism in Pakistan? Okay, it was unanimous, that's good. But let's look a bit closer - this is in Pakistan. As ashdoc has pointed out, Muslims in Pakistan have driven all other religions out - so the victims of terrorism in Pakistan are mostly Muslims. And yes, the Koran's call for killing is on infidels, not on fellow Muslims (unless you declare them apostates or just not practicing the ideology as whoever is holding the sword interprets it). So what these scholars have done is condemn the Muslims killing Muslims in Pakistan.
The reason a lot of people won't call ISIS/ISIL/DAESH the Islamic State is... political correctness.
WUT? it was probably an emergency meeting, and only one that has come up on my feed this morning so I posted it. Good grief. I applaud...BUT.
As for your PC comment - what utter rot. It would be PC to call them what they call themselves. Good grief. You just want to slap down anything handed to you because it doesnt gel with the sites you get your 'research' from.
Movie Max
06-01-17, 03:36 PM
Manila attack ...???
Manila attack ...???
http://m.timesofindia.com/world/rest-of-world/explosions-gunshots-heard-at-resort-in-manila/articleshow/58951989.cms
Wplains
06-01-17, 08:43 PM
Saw this on the local news tonight. There seems to be some confusion as to what is going on. The government seems to be saying no but Isis is claiming responsibility.
:facepalm: Talk about jumping the gun.
ISIL did not claim responsibility. They said it was a lone wolf. Reports are now coming out it was a deadbeat caucasian trying to rob the casino.
Holy smokes. This thread is a chernobyl cloud.
Movie Max
06-01-17, 11:11 PM
This thread is a chernobyl cloud.
Your post arsenal is pretty limited. Either we jump the gun or we omit. Thanks for coming out.:rolleyes:
I would place more focus on just how alarming it is, that many of our jump the gun posts end up being exactly what we assume they were from the start.
Islamic extremism is the main cause of these topic related overreactions, both among individuals and in the media links.
Officers dispelled initial fears that the incident was linked to terrorism, which were heightened in the light of the Filipino military’s recent battle with Islamic State-linked militants and the subsequent declaration of martial law in its south. They said they believed robbery was a more likely motive.
TheGuardian
Captain Steel
06-01-17, 11:20 PM
:facepalm: Talk about jumping the gun.
ISIL did not claim responsibility. They said it was a lone wolf. Reports are now coming out it was a deadbeat caucasian trying to rob the casino.
Holy smokes. This thread is a chernobyl cloud.
This is thread is like a magnet... a radioactive magnet.
Movie Max
06-03-17, 02:32 PM
I admire Australia's approach to open and frank discussions. Their publications continue to set the bar for both freedom of speech and common sense, in a crazy world.
Like it or not, Islam is a problem
Societies ruled by Islamic law have become frustrated. Too many are angry at the West, or at their leaders, or at other religions. As a consequence, like it or not, Muslims are more susceptible to Islamisation than non-Muslims.
However, the biggest threat from Islam is not to life and limb but to liberty. There is any number of particularities of Islam that makes it so: religiosity, and the extraordinary attachment to the Koran as a guide to life; associated illiberal attitudes to apostasy and blasphemy; paranoia about the West and especially Jews; and the mistreatment of women.http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/gary-johns/whichever-way-you-look-at-it-islam-is-a-problem/news-story/986c3e70ec0933dac0a320b6592e8152?nk=3440bebdf51c24dde0c94874159bc7d6-1496509845
Islam infested by extremists, cleric says
Tawhidi went further, saying young people were being radicalised, even in Australia, “because of the Islamic scriptures that we have”.
“They push the Muslim youth to believe that if you go out there and you kill the infidel that’s how you will gain paradise.
“It is very hard being a peaceful, moderate person within a society that is infested by extremist Muslims. I will not deny this fact.”
Tawhidi’s website says he is an Australian Shi’i Muslim creationist, educator, speaker, preacher, thinker, researcher and author.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/islam-infested-by-extremists-moderate-muslim-cleric-says/news-story/e4020668bba6c222d83141f10e58070a?nk=3440bebdf51c24dde0c94874159bc7d6-1496510289
The government seems to be saying no but Isis is claiming responsibility.
ISIL did not claim responsibility.
Made me chuckle. It's like watching Obama and McCain duke it out. Maybe it will all just go away if we can find the proper words.
gandalf26
06-03-17, 06:47 PM
Possibly another attack in London?? Van hits 20 people on London Bridge. Not much info yet.
Nausicaä
06-03-17, 07:26 PM
^ Looks like it, another one with a knife and car/van. :(
armed police have since been called to a second incident at the Borough Market and a third in the Vauxhall district.
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2017/06/04/07/30/vehicle-ploughs-into-people-on-london-bridge-reports#QYB6F0yZ0DFEJcRs.99
Bloody hell.
Movie Max
06-03-17, 09:00 PM
If it turns out to be just more local citizens simply practicing their faith, tomorrow the UK will probably lower their terror threat level, once again.
Captain Steel
06-03-17, 10:04 PM
Ding Dong, Islam Calling! (???)
Just heard on the radio the 3 incidents are not related so WTH? Is today significant to cause 3?
Wplains
06-03-17, 10:52 PM
Ding Dong, Islam Calling! (???)
What else could it be? Bhuddists on a rampage? I highly doubt it. They need to round up these people the police are "interested in" and lock them all up. Stop pussyfooting around - people are being killed every week now.
The incidents at London Bridge and Borough Market have been declared terrorist incidents by the Met Police, with a stabbing at Vauxhall not connected.
http://news.sky.com/story/live-significant-gunfire-after-incident-london-bridge-borough-and-vauxhall-10903581
d_chatterley
06-03-17, 11:04 PM
Strange about the Vauxhall stabbing though. If it is not related why at the same time? Hmm..
matt72582
06-03-17, 11:10 PM
I wonder if these attacks are coming at this time because of the elections.
No news yet on the 2 people who fell or jumped off the bridge the divers were searching for, but I applaud the British media for keeping tight lipped until they know what's going on. It's the social media feeding frenzy that stirs up the hysteria. There's your fake news right there.
Captain Steel
06-04-17, 01:50 AM
I wonder if these attacks are coming at this time because of the elections.
Is it already time to elect the king and queen of the Ramadan Prom Parade?
Terror threat looms on India pakistan cricket game to be played in Birmingham today----
http://m.timesofindia.com/sports/cricket/champions-trophy-2017/top-stories/security-beefed-up-for-india-pakistan-champions-trophy-tie-reports/articleshow/58982750.cms
FromBeyond
06-04-17, 04:39 AM
Ariana Grande one love concert still going ahead today despite new terror attack..
Everybody get ready for virtue signalling popstars saying cringe-worthy simple ****
Jeremy Corbyn called Islam a wonderful religion... with a straight face
gandalf26
06-04-17, 04:54 AM
The Times reported 23,000 potential terrorists in the UK. Lock them all up till we figure out what the hell is going on.
christine
06-04-17, 05:57 AM
The Times reported 23,000 potential terrorists in the UK. Lock them all up till we figure out what the hell is going on.
And then logistically what you do with those 23,000 people? Detain them where? Make a British Guantanamo? Put them through the court system with no evidence? Take up police time trying to investigate people on minimal or no evidence? That's not how the British system works thank god.
Is it already time to elect the king and queen of the Ramadan Prom Parade?
We really need childish comments like this at this time.
christine
06-04-17, 06:05 AM
Ariana Grande one love concert still going ahead today despite new terror attack..
Everybody get ready for virtue signalling popstars saying cringe-worthy simple ****
Jeremy Corbyn called Islam a wonderful religion... with a straight face
Some people like to hear reassurance from even people like popstars. I imagine it'd be important for some of the youngsters who attended the original concert.
Jeremy is right to say what he said. You just imagine what it's going to be like in London for totally innocent Muslim people, specially young men, walking out in London in the next few weeks. We need to reassure everyone in London and all our cities that we are still at heart a peaceful multicultural country. Talking up hate against a section of our community is just wrong on all levels
christine
06-04-17, 06:08 AM
I wonder if these attacks are coming at this time because of the elections.
Probably Matt. Carried out by radicalised people who can't take the fact that we live in a democracy, and one that will not be stopped from working.
christine
06-04-17, 07:20 AM
Here's something you might want to think about
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/31/sensitive-uk-terror-funding-inquiry-findings-may-never-be-published-saudi-arabia
gandalf26
06-04-17, 07:33 AM
And then logistically what you do with those 23,000 people? Detain them where? Make a British Guantanamo? Put them through the court system with no evidence? Take up police time trying to investigate people on minimal or no evidence? That's not how the British system works thank god.
We really need childish comments like this at this time.
Firstly you could put them in prison, 5 to a cell if needs be. In the short term, if it saved 1 life it would be worth it.
They are on a watchlist for a reason, perhaps not evidence of criminal intent but certainly support for the ideology.
I'm very angry at how we ve allowed people to serve ISIS then return to the UK. Hundreds have been allowed to do this. How do we know they haven't been the ones beheading or throwing people off buildings, and a vast array of disgraceful behavior.
Also like the Manchester bomber we should be restricting travel to and from hotbeds of terror like Libya. The bomber went to Libya, learned how to make a bomb then killed 22. All due to weak laws and a fear to act due to too many years of political correctness.
Tacitus
06-04-17, 07:56 AM
The Times reported 23,000 potential terrorists in the UK. Lock them all up till we figure out what the hell is going on.
Do you remember internment? One of the best recruiting methods for the IRA there ever was.
christine
06-04-17, 08:13 AM
Firstly you could put them in prison, 5 to a cell if needs be. In the short term, if it saved 1 life it would be worth it.
They are on a watchlist for a reason, perhaps not evidence of criminal intent but certainly support for the ideology.
I'm very angry at how we ve allowed people to serve ISIS then return to the UK. Hundreds have been allowed to do this. How do we know they haven't been the ones beheading or throwing people off buildings, and a vast array of disgraceful behavior.
Also like the Manchester bomber we should be restricting travel to and from hotbeds of terror like Libya. The bomber went to Libya, learned how to make a bomb then killed 22. All due to weak laws and a fear to act due to too many years of political correctness.
According to Home Office statistics = Prison Population Figures weekly bulletin of 02/06/17* there were 85,293 prisoners held in prison in this country and the capacity overall is 86731, so not much room there for 23,000 extra people who would be held on suspicion only. Putting them 5 to a cell would certainly contribute to what we already know about radicalisation in prison.**
I do agree with you that something needs to be done to investigate people who have travelled to and from certain countries, but I don't think it has anything to do with political correctness or weak laws. Finding a line to tread between sitting back and waiting for terrorists to show their faces and imposing a total travel ban from certain countries is a truly difficult task. Trump saw his travel ban being ruled unconstitutional - and incidentally using his innate poor judgement to score points with his tweet this morning.
ISIS are a blend of organisation and lone wolf admirers. They're young and use social media and technology, that's where we need to be putting our efforts to combat them, that and education. I hope the next government puts money into staffing for that, and also not continuing to cut police numbers. No amount of waffling by Theresa May about how policing has changed and that we need different types of security - yes we need them but we also need proper police. Look at the response of the emergency services last night, brilliant work, but they can't go on having cuts to their budget.
*https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/prison-population-figures-2017
**https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/islamist-extremism-in-prisons-probation-and-youth-justice/summary-of-the-main-findings-of-the-review-of-islamist-extremism-in-prisons-probation-and-youth-justice
christine
06-04-17, 08:14 AM
Do you remember internment? One of the best recruiting methods for the IRA there ever was.
there you go, backup from one who knows!
gandalf26
06-04-17, 08:14 AM
Do you remember internment? One of the best recruiting methods for the IRA there ever was.
True but those you would lock up are already recruited.
Tacitus
06-04-17, 08:16 AM
True but those you would lock up are already recruited.
That was also what happened during internment, and my dad was Special Branch in Castlereagh holding centre for most of the 70s. It caused a massive upswing in support for violent republicanism from hitherto passive nationalists.
FromBeyond
06-04-17, 08:20 AM
Jeremy is right to say what he said. You just imagine what it's going to be like in London for totally innocent Muslim people, specially young men, walking out in London in the next few weeks. We need to reassure everyone in London and all our cities that we are still at heart a peaceful multicultural country. Talking up hate against a section of our community is just wrong on all levels
What will it be like for them? it's going to be absolutely fine, it's Londinistan not london,
why don't you see what it's like for you walking through sharia town with a short dress on
"still" a multicultural country
you have a seriously short sighted view of history and for the record it doesn't enrich our country, it makes it poor
FromBeyond
06-04-17, 08:23 AM
"totally innocent Muslim people" who would like to have sharia law..
yeah yeah yeah genius you all are ... now back to your safe life, don't go to the rough areas, you good, get in your car.
FromBeyond
06-04-17, 08:25 AM
don't go for a walk at night though, it's not safe
FromBeyond
06-04-17, 08:26 AM
Corbyn is right, Islam is wonderful everybody.
Movie Max
06-04-17, 08:26 AM
You don't say...
Prime minister says too much ‘tolerance of extremism’ in UK
Islamic extremism. Start with that one. All other forms of extremism pale in comparison, and, to be liberal and democratic about it, they probably deserve the same amount of leeway you've been extending to Islamic extremists, before taking them seriously.:rolleyes: Let's see you focus on the worst, first. Save a few lives.
Theresa May says 'enough is enough' after seven killed
It was already enough the last time, and the time before that.
TheGuardian
Tacitus
06-04-17, 08:31 AM
People are justifiably shocked and appalled but snide points scoring on here isn't going to do any of us any good.
Civil discourse from all sides is great, but you don't need me to tell you that. I'm off out for an hour so please, think before you post. All of you. :)
christine
06-04-17, 08:33 AM
What will it be like for them? it's going to be absolutely fine, it's Londinistan not london,
why don't you see what it's like for you walking through sharia town with a short dress on
"still" a multicultural country
you have a seriously short sighted view of history and for the record it doesn't enrich our country, it makes it poor
ok really? You of course are entitled to your opinion, that's what's great about this country, but with respect I'm willing to bet I've lived through more of it's history than you have so do have some perspective.
and sadly my days of short dresses are over ;)
Movie Max
06-04-17, 08:37 AM
Let's send out those cowardly act, condemnation and denouncement memos. That'll teach 'em!
cricket
06-04-17, 08:39 AM
One thing I would like to see is more of the Muslim population speaking out and doing more. We see protests and marches all the time for trivial interests. How about hundreds of thousands of Muslims worldwide taking to the streets and condemning these attacks. It could not only change the minds of some considering crossing over to the dark side, but it may get more people on their side.
Movie Max
06-04-17, 08:49 AM
One thing I would like to see is more of the Muslim population speaking out and doing more.
You didn't see the feel-good news story after Westminster? Muslim points and clicks to start crowdfunding for victims. It was amazing. I can't believe you missed it.:tsk:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/03/london-attack-muslim-raises-30000-victims-170325094004245.html
christine
06-04-17, 09:10 AM
Manchester mosques organised a childens march
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/muslim-children-relatives-march-manchester-arena-show-revulsion/
Women after the Westminster attack
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/muslim-women-stand-solidarity-london-terror-attack-victims-westminster-bridge-khalid-masood-a7651361.html
Movie Max
06-04-17, 09:27 AM
At a glance | Theresa May's four-point plan to defeat terror
TheTelegraph
1.Tougher sentences for terror offences - Tougher sentences for people on suicide missions?
2.Less tolerance of extremism - Islamic extremism.
3.Holding online giants to account - Of course, pick someone who can afford to pay for the country's failure to protect its citizens.
4.Reinforce British values - Sure, but, as pointed out earlier, first you need to change them...
Theresa May Signals Tougher Anti-Terror Laws As She Says ‘Enough Is Enough’ After London Bridge Attack
“Our society should continue to function in accordance with our values. But when it comes to taking on extremism and terrorism, things need to change.”http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-enough-is-enough-signals-new-anti-terror-laws-despite-election-campaign-suspension_uk_5933da41e4b0c242ca24d6bc
Mesmerized
06-04-17, 10:42 AM
Terrorists suck. They just want to kill everybody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2TeEvPdTYo
Movie Max
06-04-17, 11:46 AM
:facepalm: Talk about jumping the gun.
Reports are now coming out it was a deadbeat caucasian trying to rob the casino.
Talk about jumping the gun.:rolleyes:
Philippines police identify Manila casino killer
They said he was a Filipino, Jessie Javier Carloshttp://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40148438
http://media.themalaymailonline.com/uploads/articles/2017/2017-06/20170604_PHILIPPINES-RESORT-GUNMAN_01.JPG
Er, you quoted the part that mentions his race and name, but omitted the most relevant part, which came immediately after:
They said he was a Filipino, Jessie Javier Carlos, who had heavy gambling debts, and was not a terrorist.
That was the original point: not the race of the shooter, but whether or not the attack was terrorism. And that seems to have held up.
As always, speculation is bad, facts are good.
christine
06-04-17, 01:00 PM
and someone should advise the Trump family that having a pop on Twitter at London's mayor when London has just had a terrorist attack is just not on. His son did it after the Westminster attack, and now Trump has done it today. It's a disgrace.
Captain Steel
06-04-17, 01:01 PM
You don't say...
Islamic extremism. Start with that one. All other forms of extremism pale in comparison, and, to be liberal and democratic about it, they probably deserve the same amount of leeway you've been extending to Islamic extremists, before taking them seriously.:rolleyes: Let's see you focus on the worst, first. Save a few lives.
It was already enough the last time, and the time before that.
TheGuardian
Is there a book of political-leader platitudes and meaningless statements that they all draw from? I wonder who the author is... Baghdadi?
Sometimes I ponder if even the terrorists wonder if anyone's going to ever actually DO anything.
They must think: "I wonder if the infidel fools will just talk about thoughts and prayers again after our next massacre, while our thoughts and prayers are obviously stronger since we think and pray about just killing them on a continual basis and that their only response will be apologetic statements defending our homicidal ideology and issuing thoughts and prayers. "
Here's something you might want to think about
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/31/sensitive-uk-terror-funding-inquiry-findings-may-never-be-published-saudi-arabia
Oh dear. Interesting read, Christine.
One thing I would like to see is more of the Muslim population speaking out and doing more.
Imams condemn them. The Imam of Manchester Central Mosque is refusing to bury Abedi and it's not the first time a mosque has refused to send lunatics to the heavenly virgins in the sky. A controversial ad was made in middle east just prior to Ramadan. What more do you think they can do at this point. As for Muslims joining the memorials, they did here after the siege, and muslim British women stood in solidarity with non muslims at London bridge. As for the latest suspects, they still havent been identified from the latest report I read.
One suggestion I would make is the mosques help fund the SAS when it's been shown terrorists are jihadists perhaps. That and all mosques refusing prayers and burial would send a pretty big message I would think.
Movie Max
06-04-17, 03:05 PM
As always, speculation is bad, facts are good.
What can I say? Those darn deadbeat caucasians...:tsk:
Terror threat looms on India pakistan cricket game to be played in Birmingham today----
http://m.timesofindia.com/sports/cricket/champions-trophy-2017/top-stories/security-beefed-up-for-india-pakistan-champions-trophy-tie-reports/articleshow/58982750.cms
At least the cricket game between india and pakistan at Birminghan happened without any terror incident.....and India beat Pakistan !!:D
I wonder if the press has been issued a gag order about releasing the names and profiles of the suspects, in which case that's probably a good thing, and why on earth those lunatics wore fake suicide vests.
One thing I would like to see is more of the Muslim population speaking out and doing more. We see protests and marches all the time for trivial interests. How about hundreds of thousands of Muslims worldwide taking to the streets and condemning these attacks. It could not only change the minds of some considering crossing over to the dark side, but it may get more people on their side.
OK Cricket I have an answer for you from a Muslim who agrees there should be a collective front in Muslim communities for more public condemnation but he said a lot of people are terrified they will be killed by the radicalised if they do, and it's what the nutbags have promised they'll do. Pretty difficult spot to be in. What would I do? I really don't know.
What can I say? Those darn deadbeat caucasians...:tsk:
As you might recall, the post she replied to was about whether or not it was terrorism. Her reply was mostly about that, too, only mentioning a report about race as an addendum.
You can't crow about this secondary speculation and ignore the primary speculation that was the actual point of disagreement. The logic applies both ways, or not at all. In this case, we have a clear example of people rushing to judge an attack as terrorism without cause, and that produced an erroneous claim. I think the right thing to do in that situation is for everyone to acknowledge the mistake and resolve to avoid it in the future, not to try to find some secondary issue that can be used to deflect attention away from the primary one.
As you might recall, the post she replied to was about whether or not it was terrorism. Her reply was mostly about that, too, only mentioning a report about race as an addendum.
You can't crow about this secondary speculation and ignore the primary speculation that was the actual point of disagreement. The logic applies both ways, or not at all. In this case, we have a clear example of people rushing to judge an attack as terrorism without cause, when it wasn't. I think the right thing to do in that situation is to acknowledge the mistake and resolve to avoid it in the future, not to try to find some secondary issue that can be used to deflect attention away from the primary one.
I don't know what his problem is and why he hangs off my every word when he's been trying to bully me off the board since I came here. Got me beat. And his anger for the world seems to impair his comprehension skills.
cricket - this is a response from another guy which I think is pretty spot on
Most logical people would agree that one of ISIS' main objectives is to drive a wedge between Muslims and everyone else, and by creating fear, paranoia and hatred, Muslims living in the west will be alienated and therefore ripe for recruitment by dirty terrorists.
Movie Max
06-04-17, 06:47 PM
I think the right thing to do in that situation is for everyone to acknowledge the mistake and resolve to avoid it in the future, not to try to find some secondary issue that can be used to deflect attention away from the primary one.
I think a muslim or convert can be of any race. That has been demonstrated many times. Not only did she bring up race in her response, she added the adjective "deadbeat" and was wrong on the race. If we're pointing out flaws, the way she frequently does in this thread, maybe we should get all of them out in the open.
I do not dispute the Manila Attack speculation that occurred.
christine
06-04-17, 06:51 PM
Also I'd like to bring to certain peoples attention that one of the surgeons who worked for two solid days after the Manchester bombing, Naveed Yasin, a trauma and orthopaedic surgeon, is a muslim, and incidentally was racially abused on the way home after work. Also Dr Ibrar Majid, the lead surgeon for the children's injuries that night is a Muslim.
And last night ..,https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/04/a-trauma-doctor-tells-of-staff-flooding-into-work-as-casualties-arrived
Those guys are really heroes
Well said as usual, Christine.
Wplains
06-04-17, 06:57 PM
The Times reported 23,000 potential terrorists in the UK. Lock them all up till we figure out what the hell is going on.
I agree with locking up anyone who went to Syria etc. but we all know what is going on: spreading hate and terror and chaos. We need to stop with the "tolerance" else many more people will be killed in the name of the pc.
Totally agree with this guy:
https://youtu.be/v4vWR5BpDdQ
Not only did she bring up race in her response, she added the adjective "deadbeat" and was wrong on the race.
...as an addendum in a response to a claim about terrorism. Terrorism is/was the primary topic not just of that line of discussion, but of the entire thread. And the "deadbeat" part was correct.
Also, worth noting that she was relaying some other report, not just randomly speculating herself, as has been the kneejerk response to most attacks throughout this thread.
If we're pointing out flaws, the way she frequently does in this thread, maybe we should get all of them out in the open.
Getting everything out in the open means acknowledging this stuff in all its forms, not selectively criticizing some offhand comment while conveniently ignoring the primary issue. Particularly when ignoring it means cutting off quotes from news sources right before they bring it up.
Movie Max
06-04-17, 07:13 PM
I see some posts have evaporated, so, I have nothing else to quote or discuss in response. Thanks for keeping an eye, fairly and equally, on all participants.
FromBeyond
06-04-17, 09:34 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2017/06/04/TELEMMGLPICT000130931405-large_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqn2-OMuxp19CzPI9TcYWCE9r5VVgZyhTHFuukJXgB3UM.jpeg
First victim of London terror attack named as Canadian Chrissy Archibald.
Captain Steel
06-04-17, 10:36 PM
Also I'd like to bring to certain peoples attention that one of the surgeons who worked for two solid days after the Manchester bombing, Naveed Yasin, a trauma and orthopaedic surgeon, is a muslim, and incidentally was racially abused on the way home after work. Also Dr Ibrar Majid, the lead surgeon for the children's injuries that night is a Muslim.
And last night ..,https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/04/a-trauma-doctor-tells-of-staff-flooding-into-work-as-casualties-arrived
Those guys are really heroes
Point?
Oh right... not all Muslims are Terrorists. Got it.
Let's all repeat the mantra:
Not all Muslims are Terrorists
Not all Muslims are Terrorists
Not all Muslims are Terrorists
Okay, now that we've cleared that up for the umpteenth time....
Let's acknowledge the fact that this caveat does nothing to address the immediate and growing problem of innocents being massacred in the streets all over the world by the Muslims who ARE terrorists!
And, that number of terrorists emerging from out of the overall Muslim population is a significant percentage (even a small fraction of almost 2 billion is significant!) which is constantly increasing... support terrorism to some degree, are establishing interconnected & spreading networks of terrorism even if they aren't directly active in acts of violence, or desire Sharia law (which is essentially just terrorism against any who don't submit).
At least the cricket game between india and pakistan at Birminghan happened without any terror incident.....and India beat Pakistan !!:D
this is how pakistanis react when they lose cricket matches against india . destroy their TV sets because they saw pakistan losing to india on TV....can you imagine the pent up hatred of these people....
https://youtu.be/BNP70NxDEzw
d_chatterley
06-05-17, 04:04 AM
this is how pakistanis react when they lose cricket matches against india . destroy their TV sets because they saw pakistan losing to india on TV....can you imagine the pent up hatred of these people....
Your attempt to try to lump all Pakistanis as hateful based on some testosterone-driven, herd mentality, misdirected aggression is ridiculous. Have you ever seen how football hooligans here in the West react when they lose their matches? It makes the bashing of TVs look rather civil. I wish the only thing they destroy here were their own TVs rather than other people's property or hurting other innocent people.
Oh yeah, can you imagine the pent up hatred of these people? :rolleyes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtOXiQToz64
d_chatterley
06-05-17, 04:19 AM
Well, this is interesting:
UAE, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain cut off relations with fellow Gulf state Qatar.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/05/middleeast/saudi-bahrain-egypt-uae-qatar-terror/index.html
I am sure there is a lot more behind this than what is reported. My first reaction was to just laugh at Saudis trying pass judgement on Qatar supporting terrorism when they themselves have been supporters of more terrorist groups than I can count.
What kind of scheming is going on here? Did Trump's recent visit to this region and his arms deal have anything to do with it? What does this mean for the stability of this region? Hmmmm...
Your attempt to try to lump all Pakistanis as hateful based on some testosterone-driven, herd mentality, misdirected aggression is ridiculous. Have you ever seen how football hooligans here in the West react when they lose their matches? It makes the bashing of TVs look rather civil. I wish the only thing they destroy here were their own TVs rather than other people's property or hurting other innocent people.
Oh yeah, can you imagine the pent up hatred of these people? :rolleyes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtOXiQToz64
But Indians don't destroy their TV sets when they lose to Pakistan. In the whole cricket world only Pakistanis behave this way .
Your attempt to try to lump all Pakistanis as hateful based on some testosterone-driven, herd mentality, misdirected aggression is ridiculous.]
63 pages of this thread and now the real agenda comes out. Cricket rivalry. :facepalm:
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