The MoFo Top Comic Book & Graphic Novel Movies Countdown

[Deadite]

The Holden Pikeverse. ;)

[Captain Spaulding]

http://inyourfaceradio.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Republican-Cry-baby-Gif.gif

[The Rodent]

Yep.


Most controversial list in MoFo history.


I love this.

[Yoda]

"I think this is the worst list I've ever heard of."

"But you have heard of it."

http://blogmented.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Jack-Sparrow-worst-pirate-Ive-ever-heard-of-e1274715663211.jpg

[The Rodent]

Remember this at the MoFies...

[The Rodent]

Just updated my lists...


It means I've seen 92%... if we went with 100 my viewing stats would be at 80%.

[The Gunslinger45]

I am sitting at 82% myself. I need to get to work to finish it off. :D

[The Rodent]

Have you put yours in order like I have? Highest to lowest?


It's not showing on your list dropdown.

[The Gunslinger45]

I just did, and it is still not showing for some reason.

[The Rodent]

Is it showing on mine?

[The Gunslinger45]

It is on your list page, but your drop down only shows your top 5 for some reason.

[The Rodent]

Ok, contacted Yoda. Mine is only showing 5 for me too.

[Yoda]

Forgot to add the list data to one of the plugins. Should be good now?

(Also, just FYI: it's supposed to only show 5 on your posts, with a link to the rest.)

[The Rodent]

Yep, sorted now :up: ... I've got 6 on all the dropboxes with a link at the bottom...

[Yoda]

Yeah, sorry, meant to say 6. I'm a little fried, heh. Thanks for confirming.

[Swan]

I think both sides of the debate are wrong, we should only put 100 - 155 in the lists section.

[TheUsualSuspect]

I honestly feel that if Holden didn't make a fuss about the bottom half being so bad, the entire list would be up right now.

[Captain Spaulding]

His words carry more weight, but several people voiced their displeasure about the list being expanded to 100.

[Zotis]

Sexy, your imagination isn't another universe...

[Sexy Celebrity]

I honestly feel that if Holden didn't make a fuss about the bottom half being so bad, the entire list would be up right now.

That's what I think.

[Zotis]

What's the big deal about the bottom half being bad? It's not like the top half was all that great. It's mostly just Hollywood blockbusters every average Joe has seen.

[Sexy Celebrity]

You wanna know what's the worst thing about the top half?

Where The F**king Wild Things Are.

[Zotis]

How did that get on there? Since when are children's illistrated books "graphic novels?" I motion to have it removed. But to be honest I do think this list is better as a top 50 than a top 100. Most of what's on there now are watchable. A lot of what was in the second half was pretty bad...

I still won't watch 300, Iron Man 3, or Avengers.

[The Rodent]

How did that get on there? Since when are children's illistrated books "graphic novels?" I motion to have it removed.



Picture book... part of the same Media as Graphic Novels and Comic Books.


Technically it's like saying Comics are different to Graphic... but they're part of the same Media.


Another example is Light-Novel... it's basically Japanese version of a Graphic Novel... part of the Media we call Manga, which in turn is a Japanese version of a Comic Book.


They're all related in those mediums.


If you're on about not including Where The Wild Things Are, then technically The Addams Family movies shouldn't have been either. Or Garfield.
They were strips in Newspapers originally... but as part of the medium, they are classed under Comics.

[Yoda]

I honestly feel that if Holden didn't make a fuss about the bottom half being so bad, the entire list would be up right now.
I know for a fact this is wrong. It was conceived as a Top 50, posted as one throughout voting, and Rodent and I both talked about posting it as a Top 50 long before most of the hub-ub.

Also, the timeline doesn't even really make sense, because Holden reacted to the list size immediately (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1066398#post1066398), before he could see how bad most of it was. And he posted those arguments about relative submission pool size just 8 movies into the countdown (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1066806#post1066806). It's not taste, it's math, and has been from the beginning.

[Masterman]

I know for a fact this is wrong. It was conceived as a Top 50, posted as one throughout voting, and Rodent and I both talked about posting it as a Top 50 long before most of the hub-ub.

Also, the timeline doesn't really make sense, anyway, because Holden reacted to the list size immediately, before he'd seen most of them. He posted this (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1066806#post1066806), which is about the relative submission pool size, just 6 movies into the countdown.

Whether it was first posted as a top 50 or not, the final list was still posted as a 100 countdown. So I can see why people are complaining.

[Yoda]

I'm not surprised that a few people are complaining, but that doesn't make the complaints reasonable. And the fact that nobody objected until they saw the next 50 makes me think this is just some mutated form of loss aversion.

[Miss Vicky]

I love that the last 8 pages of this thread are nothing but people bitching and arguing over how many of the movies should be included in the lists section. The actual countdown ended 10 pages ago.

[Zotis]

Woah, illistrated books are not the same media as graphi novels. Comparing graphic novels with comics isn't a similar comparison, because graphic novels aren't like comics, they are comics. A graphic novel is just multiple comics packaged together in a larger volume. Manga are just Japanese comics. Those light novels, like Vampire Hunter D are part novel and part comic, it's the part comic that allows them to qualify. Illistrated books are not part comic at all.

[mark f]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyBcHUe4WeQ

[The Rodent]

Trust me, Zotis... I put a lot of study into the subject...

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

Trust me, Zotis... I put a lot of study into the subject...

It really shows. :p

[The Rodent]

:D


I had no choice. I made a mistake and had to readjust my knowledge...


I thought it would be a simple Comic/Graphic list... then I realised I may have bitten off more than I could chew as there are so many different parts to comics and graphics media... so many branches...


So I had to make sure I was up on the subject so I didn't make any more mistakes... like telling people their choices weren't eligible when in fact, they were.
Or vice versa .

[Zotis]

What the hell are you talking about? The same media? And what media is that exactly? What other selections were any other type of related media but graphic novels and comic books?

You're talking nonsense Rodent.

[The Rodent]

Erm... that's a bit of an extreme reaction to me explaining that those things are related.

[The Rodent]

Here's something off the web that explains it...



What there is more of in a graphic novel, writing or art, is really unanswerable. There is a lot of both and generally the two do intertwine so some aspects of the drawing can be called writing.

A picture book is a general term, and includes coffee table books. Obviously it includes both graphic novels and comics and much more -- such as Lynd Ward's novels in woodcuts from the thirties which influenced a lot of comic artists who came in in the seventies. A comic book is a magazine which either serializes a story or presents a story which is part of a series. A graphic novel is a longer piece which presents a self-contained story which may or may not be part of a series. To use a Belgian example, Herge's classic comic Tintin was originally serialized in the fascist newspaper le XXme Siecle then after world war II in its own magazine, Tintin, with other series such as Bernard Prince. In the US it was serialized in Childrens' Digest, but as each episode finished serializing in France it was collected into an album -- essentially a graphic novel but they were called albums till the term came into broad use and that was indeed how many of us discovered him. These days they can be had in collections which present two adventures at once. The Watchmen and, I believe League of Extraordinary Gentlement were published as comic books before they were Graphic Novels.

Back when we used to call the Undergrounds Comix -- Gilbert Shelton, Spain Rodriguez and R. Crumb -- but they were comic books. Underground Comic books. So comics are not MORE for kids. However the Industry has coopted most of what the undergrounds did and guys like Spain work on-line while Shelton lives in France (as does Crumb I believe).

In other words between the second two there is a difference in format, not content, and the first is something else.

[Zotis]

That didn't explain anything. That article is talking about comics and graphic novels. What does that have to do with children's illustrated books?

[The Rodent]

The start of the second paragraph: "A picture book is a general term, and includes coffee table books. Obviously it includes both graphic novels and comics and much more -- such as Lynd Ward's novels in woodcuts from the thirties which influenced a lot of comic artists who came in in the seventies."

[Deadite]

Whether it was first posted as a top 50 or not, the final list was still posted as a 100 countdown. So I can see why people are complaining.

What really blows my mind is that even though I acknowledged that my disagreement with leaving out the bottom 50 wouldn't get them back in, and even though I was one of the first to downplay those cuts, the reaction was still like a stormtrooper siege squashing a rebel uprising. As if - GOD FORBID - How dare we dislike it and say so?

Then Holden Pike in his infinite wisdom decided to lay down the Law as if he's Yoda's personal enforcer. Guess he needed an ego boost and to re-affirm he's our superior since there's nothing more threatening to the forum status quo than a handful of members who voted in a comic book adaptation thread expressing dissatisfaction with the final count. :rolleyes:

[The Rodent]

Another


There are several other important aspects to the children’s books, picture books and comic books relationship, including but not limited to: The use of panels vs. pages, thought and speech bubbles vs. italics and quotations, the history of each genre, didacticism vs. “corruption,” and relative brevity.

[The Rodent]

Trust me Zote... I spent 6 months researching this during the time period I was taking entries for the Countdown.


It was after I made a mistake through my own ignorance of the subject... and I told one of our members that one of his choices wasn't eligible when it actually was.


It was the I realised I hadn't looked fully into the media of Comics and Graphic Novels... so I rectified my mistake, which is something I tend to do with many things when I make a mistake: I studied a hell of a lot of info on numerous sites to make sure I never make a mistake again.


It's the INTJ in me :D

[Deadite]

What really blows my mind is that even though I acknowledged that my disagreement with leaving out the bottom 50 wouldn't get them back in, and even though I was one of the first to downplay those cuts, the reaction was still like a stormtrooper siege squashing a rebel uprising. As if - GOD FORBID - How dare we dislike it and say so?

Then Holden Pike in his infinite wisdom decided to lay down the Law as if he's Yoda's personal enforcer. Guess he needed an ego boost and to re-affirm he's our superior since there's nothing more threatening to the forum status quo than a handful of members who voted in a comic book adaptation thread expressing dissatisfaction with the final count. :rolleyes:

And besides, I'd just like to add that SC is right.... Everybody here knows that if somehow Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy hadn't made top 50 then we'd be checking off a hundred films right now instead of half.

[Zotis]

So in other words what you're telling me is this is really a Top 100 Picture Books list?

[Yoda]

What really blows my mind is that even though I acknowledged that my disagreement with leaving out the bottom 50 wouldn't get them back in, and even though I was one of the first to downplay those cuts, the reaction was still like a stormtrooper siege squashing a rebel uprising. As if - GOD FORBID - How dare we dislike it and say so?
Playing the victim feels pretty disingenuous to me. I'd encourage you to go back and read your initial posts. For example, you said the decision "comes across as anal control freak elitism." That's quite insulting, but even so the initial responses you received (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1081320#post1081320) did not reply in kind.

After that, you called the list "sh*t" and told people to "keep your respectable list and keep where it don't shine." Then Holden fired back, but even then he just did it with sarcasm (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1081412#post1081412). You responded by calling him a "d*ck."

So no, I don't think your summary in the quote above is accurate. You were very forceful in your objections, very insulting in how you phrased them, have continually suggested that people (like me) are lying about their motives, and you deflected most of the perfectly rational responses you received. Under those circumstances, I think the response has been downright muted.

[Deadite]

Uh yeah, no. I poked fun at Sexy two or three times before I started posting to explain I wasn't belittling him and actually understood where he was coming from.

Besides it was never much of a "populous" vote anyway, considering it's only a small percentage of fans on one forrum participating anyway, I think. I can see how shutting out some votes just comes across as anal control freak elitism that way...

Your spin/viewpoint is yours and you're welcome to it. Holden Pike IS a d!ck. He made that clear all by himself, no need for anyone to cry victim.
But all said and don, you already made it clear you prize some abstraction above the people who, y'know, actually participated in and made the 100 list happen.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

Holden Pike IS a d!ck.

We have no way of confirming this without photographic evidence, which I doubt will be allowed to be posted here.

[Miss Vicky]

We have no way of confirming this without photographic evidence, which I doubt will be allowed to be posted here.

He doesn't look particularly phallic to me. (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1063661#post1063661) :D

[Deadite]

Also it's disingenuous to write as if I "responded" to Holden's non-crazy patience with us children wanting our full list. I didn't call him a d!ck for his opinion on the change, I called him a d!ck for his superior attitude. As I already wrote in another post you conveniently ignored/forgot.

[Swan]

He doesn't look particularly phallic to me. (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1063661#post1063661) :D

I don't know what you're talking about, that is a picture of a flaccid penis.

[Yoda]

Uh yeah, no. I poked fun at Sexy two or three times before I started posting to explain I wasn't belittling him and actually understood where he was coming from.
Huh? Nobody's accusing you of belittling SC--he agrees with you. That's not what those quotes are about.

Your spin/viewpoint is yours and you're welcome to it.
And you're welcome to explain how the direct quotes and timeline I just produced are "spin." Do you deny saying those things? Do you deny that they're insulting?

But all said and don, you already made it clear you prize some abstraction above the people who, y'know, actually participated in and made the 100 list happen.
You mean like the guy who actually organized it, and agrees it should be a Top 50?

Trying to frame this as The Management vs. The People is just as disingenuous as pretending to be a victim. Most people are fine with this (a couple of very vocal dissenters notwithstanding). And you were fine with it, too when you voted. But somehow--and I've asked about this several times, to no avail--the idea of a Top 50 went from perfectly acceptable when you voted to some kind of oligarchical tragedy now.

[Deadite]

As usual you are too busy being pompous to actually read and understand the other side. I DID NOT SAY ANYONE ACCUSED ME OF BELITTLING SC. THAT WAS MY OWN MOTIVATION: TO LET HIM KNOW I WASN'T SAYING THOSE THINGS TO BELITTLE HIM, THAT I ACTUALLY UNDERSTOOD HIS POV.

[Yoda]

So if you say something insulting to show solidarity with someone, it's okay, and everybody has to act like you didn't actually say them?

[Deadite]

Also it's disingenuous to write as if I "responded" to Holden's non-crazy patience with us children wanting our full list. I didn't call him a d!ck for his opinion on the change, I called him a d!ck for his superior attitude. As I already wrote in another post you conveniently ignored/forgot.

AND HERE IS WHAT I MEANT BY YOU SPINNING IT: YOU POSTED that Holden fired back, but even then he just did it with sarcasm. You responded by calling him a "d*ck."

That implies I called HP a d!ck for disagreeing. I explained this already when Holden used the same tactic you are using. I DID NOT CALL HIM THAT FOR DISAGREEING.

[Yoda]

No, it doesn't imply that. It implies you called him that for "firing back," which in no way suggests that it was about the content of his disagreement. To the contrary, I mentioned his sarcasm, not the disagreement.

Also, why you called him a d*ck is completely beside the point, which was that you weren't a victim politely registering dissent and then squashed by the Galactic Empire (which, let's be clear, is an absurdly overwrought analogy). You initiated pretty much all of this, received calm responses, and more or less brushed them off. And after you had been doing this for awhile, he replied with sarcasm, and then you called him a name.

I have no idea why you think this distinction between attitude and disagreement (which I didn't specify either way, anyway) contradicts this.

[Deadite]

So if you say something insulting to show solidarity with someone, it's okay, and everybody has to act like you didn't actually say them?

What are you talking about? If you look back at what I wrote in context, everyone was much less heated when I posted those initial posts defending SC and calling the change crap. It escalated partly due to misunderstanding of how upset I was and partly due to HP being a d!ck.

I didn't get truly upset 'til Holden started twisting my words and acting cold-blooded. From my perspective this whole thing started out as playful teasing and faux raging against the machine but it turned really ugly after certain people acted as if complaining is a crime and we were going to cause you to change your mind. I already said early on I knew that wasn't gonna happen.

[Deadite]

No, it doesn't imply that. It implies you called him that for "firing back," which in no way suggests that it was about the content of his disagreement. To the contrary, I mentioned his sarcasm, not the disagreement.

Also, why you called him a d*ck is completely beside the point, which was that you weren't a victim politely registering dissent and then squashed by the Galactic Empire (which, let's be clear, is an absurdly overwrought analogy). You initiated pretty much all of this, received calm responses, and more or less brushed them off. And after you had been doing this for awhile, he replied with sarcasm, and then you called him a name.

I have no idea why you think this distinction between attitude and disagreement (which I didn't specify either way, anyway) contradicts this.

It's not beside MY point, Yoda. Whoever said you get to make all the points? :)

[Yoda]

What are you talking about? If you look back at what I wrote in context, everyone was much less heated when I posted those initial posts defending SC and calling the change crap. It escalated partly due to misunderstanding of how upset I was and partly due to HP being a d!ck.
It was less heated because the only people replying at the time (it was late) agreed with you. And you said "came across as anal control freak elitism" and "cheating" long before Holden had said anything to you about it.

And I really don't see what he's supposed to have said that was so provocative; it was all pretty mild, particularly compared to what you were throwing around. He posted a picture of a person and a brick wall, and then he was sarcastic...and that was pretty much it. Then it's "the new list is sh*t" and "put it where it don't shine" and "d*ck." It really didn't take much.

I didn't get truly upset 'til Holden started twisting my words and acting cold-blooded. From my perspective this whole thing started out as playful teasing and faux raging against the machine but it turned really ugly after certain people acted as if complaining is a crime and we were gokng to cause you to change your mind. I already said early on I knew that wasn't gonna happen.
I think it turned ugly when you said "anal control freak elitism" and openly suggested that people were lying.

And I'd like to see examples of people acting "as if complaining is a crime." Do you mean this post (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1081320#post1081320), where I stated my case calmly and directly? Or Holden's, where he reproduced the percentage calculations he did a month ago in direct response to you requesting it? True, complaining isn't a crime--and responding to those complaints isn't oppression.

This feels like one of those cases where we downplay the impact of our own words and inflate the severity of others'. A little empathy here would go a long way.

It's not beside MY point, Yoda. Whoever said you get to make all the points? :)
Nobody, but you were replying to a point I made and ostensibly disputing it. I'm operating under the assumption that when you reply to something, you're addressing it.

[mark f]

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m300/kiloechoxray/threaddeath.jpg

[Deadite]

You think it turned ugly when I wrote "Besides it was never much of a "populous" vote anyway, considering it's only a small percentage of fans on one forrum participating anyway, I think. I can see how shutting out some votes just comes across as anal control freak elitism that way..." but in my opinion that was phrased pretty mildly along with other earlier posts such as those that called people "crazy" for disagreeing.

So if you want to single out that post as causing all this then I can't stop you, Mr. Admin, but from my perspective it was in the same spirit as your namecalling.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Playing the victim feels pretty disingenuous to me.

That's not playing the victim. You want to think we're playing the victim, but we're not.

[Yoda]

That's not playing the victim. You want to think we're playing the victim, but we're not.
What's this "we" stuff? Maybe you're not. But comparing a disagreement to stormtroopers "squashing a rebel uprising" is.

[Sexy Celebrity]

You think it turned ugly when I wrote "Besides it was never much of a "populous" vote anyway, considering it's only a small percentage of fans on one forrum participating anyway, I think. I can see how shutting out some votes just comes across as anal control freak elitism that way..." but in my opinion that was phrased pretty mildly along with other earlier posts such as those that called people "crazy" for disagreeing.

So if you want to single out that post as causing all this then I can't stop you, Mr. Admin, but from my perspective it was in the same spirit as your namecalling.

Yeah, I didn't like being called "a straight up crazy person" just because I wanted the Top 100 to stay a Top 100.

[Deadite]

It was okay for Yoda to namecall and marginalize your opinion, SC. He has right on his side.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Yoda's just jealous because I beat him in the Top MoFos Countdown.

[Yoda]

Yeah, nice try, but you say lots of completely outrageous things just to stir the pot. Which is usually fine, but you don't get to wait for someone to actually match you in hyperbole and then get Very Serious about it.

Besides, it's not preferring a Top 100 that's crazy--it's brushing off the reasons for disagreeing that is. Ya'll were given perfectly rational explanations for the decision--some of which you even specifically demanded--and then just kept rolling with the idea that the snobby elite were crushing the will of the people. That's what's crazy.

[Deadite]

Besides Yoda knows his namecalling wasn't intended as highly offensive. It's different when I say something highly offensive because I said something highly offensive whereas his only seemed highly offensive. Thus it's all my fault for starting this.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

It was okay for Yoda to namecall and marginalize your opinion, SC. He has right on his side.

Right and the force.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Well, if I do say outrageous things, that doesn't mean you should act like me.

[Yoda]

Besides Yoda knows his namecalling wasn't intended as highly offensive. It's different when I say something highly offensive because I said something highly offensive whereas his only seemed highly offensive.
I'm pretty sure that's your position, actually: that when you say "anal control freak elitism" it was "phrased mildly," but the word "crazy" is a personal insult.

Also, which of the two of us is specifically arguing based on how offended and wrong they were? It ain't me. Until this last round--where I've just been rebutting your retelling of it all--I've just been defending the choice itself.

[Deadite]

Yeah, nice try, but you say lots of completely outrageous things just to stir the pot. Which is usually fine, but you don't get to wait for someone to actually match you in hyperbole and then get Very Serious about it.

Besides, it's not preferring a Top 100 that's crazy--it's brushing off the reasons for disagreeing that is. Ya'll were given perfectly rational explanations for the decision--some of which you even specifically demanded--and then just kept rolling with the idea that the snobby elite were crushing the will of the people. That's what's crazy.

What are you saying? That the reason I called HP a d!ck matters now? Or just your reason for namecalling matters?

[Yoda]

Sounds a lot like willful misunderstanding. The reason you called him a d*ck matters if we're discussing whether or not you were justified in doing so. The reason doesn't matter if we're just establishing that you were firing insults at people and not being passive. It's a pretty clear distinction.

[Deadite]

I'm pretty sure that's your position, actually: that when you say "anal control freak elitism" it was "phrased mildly," but the word "crazy" is a personal insult.

Either way, note which of the two of us is arguing based on how offended they are. It ain't me. Until this last round I've just been defending the decision.

No, my position is that we both meant our posts in the same spirit but now you're singling me out. I already said this.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

Besides Yoda knows his namecalling wasn't intended as highly offensive. It's different when I say something highly offensive because I said something highly offensive whereas his only seemed highly offensive. Thus it's all my fault for starting this.

That pretty much sums it up..:D

[Sexy Celebrity]

Besides, it's not preferring a Top 100 that's crazy--it's brushing off the reasons for disagreeing that is. Ya'll were given perfectly rational explanations for the decision--some of which you even specifically demanded--and then just kept rolling with the idea that the snobby elite were crushing the will of the people. That's what's crazy.

'Cause it feels true to me. I get your reasoning for why you decided to add it as a Top 50, but I do suspect that if the bottom 50 had different and better movies all throughout it, nobody (such as Holden Pike) would have said anything and all 100 movies would have been added to the list. It was the fact that Superman Returns and Batman and Robin and others made the list that promoted Holden to speak up.

And even if you did speak to Rodent BEFORE all that about making it a Top 50, I still think there's a chance it would have stayed as a Top 100 if it all played out with different movies.

You're not going to feel this, I imagine, since this didn't actually happen, and you can always say, "Not true!" Or you could say, "It still would have been a Top 50!" But you don't know for sure. *I* don't reaaaaaallly know for sure -- BUT -- I feel it could have happened, that if the movies had been different, and better, it would have remained as a Top 100. And that pissed me off.

[Deadite]

Sounds a lot like willful misunderstanding. The reason you called him a d*ck matters if we're discussing whether or not you were justified in doing so. The reason doesn't matter if we're just establishing that you were firing insults at people and not being passive. It's a pretty clear distinction.

The reason I called him a d!ck does matter to me, and the post where I told him I wasn't namecalling Zot or Dan or him for their opinion but just him, HP... that post matters too, although you saw fit to ignore that post when you pointed a finger.

[Yoda]

I get your reasoning for why you decided to add it as a Top 50
Great. :) But maybe say that before the 15 pages of arguments next time.

but I do suspect that if the bottom 50 had different and better movies all throughout it, nobody (such as Holden Pike) would have said anything and all 100 movies would have been added to the list. It was the fact that Superman Returns and Batman and Robin and others made the list that promoted Holden to speak up.
Then why did he speak up immediately, before either of those showed up? Why did I?

And even if you did speak to Rodent BEFORE all that about making it a Top 50, I still think there's a chance it would have stayed as a Top 100 if it all played out with different movies.
I can't jump around the multiverse and prove otherwise, of course. But there are films I like a lot in the bottom 50, too, and I definitely feel that any criteria which lets a single user guarantee a film's inclusion defeats the entire point of a collective list. You can believe me or not, I guess.

You're not going to feel this, I imagine, since this didn't actually happen, and you can always say, "Not true!" Or you could say, "It still would have been a Top 50!" But you don't know for sure. *I* don't reaaaaaallly know for sure -- BUT -- I feel it could have happened, that if the movies had been different, and better, it would have remained as a Top 100. And that pissed me off.
Well, you are certainly free to express your displeasure with some other version of me that would have done that.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

It was the fact that Superman Returns and Batman and Robin and others made the list that promoted Holden to speak up.


I have no problem with Superman Returns. Batman and Robin the other hand..:facepalm:

[Sexy Celebrity]

Great. :) But maybe say that before the 15 pages of arguments next time.

Understanding something doesn't mean agreeing with it.

[Captain Spaulding]

This thread should be taken out to the pasture, shot in the head, then, to insure it stays dead, set on fire.

[mark f]

Sexy lives in the Multiverse.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Well, you are certainly free to express your displeasure with some other version of me that would have done that.

I tried. He told me to come back here and bug you.

And I listened because that version of you had an assault rifle and Movie Forums was actually a weekly meetup in a Barnes & Noble Starbucks.

[Yoda]

The reason I called him a d!ck does matter to me, and the post where I told him I wasn't namecalling Zot or Dan or him for their opinion but just him, HP... that post matters too, although you saw fit to ignore that post when you pointed a finger.
Mattering to you personally does not make it applicable in all contexts. And the context in question is that you replied to a point I made and disagreed with it. So when I note that your reason doesn't matter to that point, it's not a personal slight, and it's not a suggestion that there is no other context in which they might matter.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

Page after page of petty bickering and the most important issue hasn't been addressed: how the hell didn't 30 Days of Night make the list?

[Miss Vicky]

How the hell didn't 30 Days of Night make the list?

Probably because people have seen it.

[Yoda]

Let me just give everyone a really easy out: does anyone have anything new to say? If there are no more discussions about the list, rather than meta discussions about the reaction to it, I think it should wind down.

That said, open invitation for anyone who wants to email/PM/profile comment/whatever ad infinitum about it. Public or private, I'll hear it all out as long as you care to say it, I just think it'd be better somewhere else. Rodent put in a lot of work and I can't imagine he loves this, so let's find another place.

What's everyone say to that? :)

[Miss Vicky]

It's got Josh Hartnett in it! Making it a must see. :cool:

Uh, no.

[Sexy Celebrity]

By the way, Deadite, in the other universe, Alt Yoda had actually already used that assault rifle on you.

I tripped and fell when I stepped in a mixture of your blood and fresh coffee.

I'm going back there now before you were shot in an attempt to save you. If you don't hear from me again... make a RIP thread.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

Uh, no.

You underestimate Josh's talents.

[mark f]

Slob should still be pushing this (I know it doesn't qualify, but make it work!):
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Gdq4MqYmjJE/UpYSowxagMI/AAAAAAAAB30/5X4inm2VAX8/s1600/masters.jpg

[Holden Pike]

Originally Posted by Sexy Celebrity
No, this really pisses me off. I don't agree that we need to cut it down to a smaller number just because of certain movies that made the list. How do I know if the list wouldn't stay at 100 if Batman and Robin didn't happen to make it? And I bet if more "respectable" movies had been all throughout all 100, even if they only got one vote, I bet all 100 films would have made the official list.

Screw this. I'm out of here.
--------------------------------------------

Why so serious? Why so serious? :rolleyes:
You know what's fun? Go back a few days worth of posts, and see Deadite's original reaction to Sexy's overraction...before he decided the water was fine, and jumped on in.

Why is it you're so serious, Man?

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=14232&stc=1&d=1399142071

[Holden Pike]

Thanks for running the list, Rodent.

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=14233&stc=1&d=1399142297

[Masterman]

I think everyone should just carry on arguing. The countdown is over, and this thread is quite amusing.

[Deadite]

Mattering to you personally does not make it applicable in all contexts. And the context in question is that you replied to a point I made and disagreed with it. So when I note that your reason doesn't matter to that point, it's not a personal slight, and it's not a suggestion that there is no other context in which they might matter.

Gimme a break. I made a point and you refused to acknowledge it. It pertains directly to what you wrote, your phrasing which misrepresented my intention.

But I think I've hit my limit for trying to explain this to you for today. So ban me or lecture away to your heart's content. We aren't gonna see eye to eye on this.

[Deadite]

You know what's fun? Go back a few days worth of posts, and see Deadite's original reaction to Sexy's overraction...before he decided the water was fine, and jumped on in.

Why is it you're so serious, Man?

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=14232&stc=1&d=1399142071

I already explained this. Try actually reading my posts instead of just looking for openings for cheap shots.

[Holden Pike]

I already explained this. Try actually reading my posts instead of just looking for openings for cheap shots.

I guess that's kind of frustrating, huh? When you've clearly explained yourself several times, and somebody keeps going back over the same ground anyway, as if what you said to them never sank in?

[Deadite]

Or maybe the people who disagreed understood your opinion, still disagreed, and were still expressing their own opinions.

You don't get to decide for everybody when they have to stop discussing something.

[Deadite]

And please don't come back with some lame post equating what I just wrote with me explaining what I meant. You can have a differing opinion on the countdown. You can't have a differing opinion about what I meant after I clearly tell what I meant.

[Swan]

Alright everyone!

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f145/ifiswan/4f9ee834-b48d-43e5-98e8-a7917b74a425_zpsa495030c.jpg

[Deadite]

Besides, why should I give a damn about your own frustration after you clearly stated you don't give a damn about anyone else's feelings?

[Sexy Celebrity]

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=14235&stc=1&d=1399147701

This bothers me because Yoda would never apologize to me if he edited a post I made with a swearing picture.

[Yoda]

I don't think that's true, but regardless, you've done stuff like that before. This is the first time I remember ever having to do that for Holden. Quit tryin' to make trouble.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Quit tryin' to make trouble. :p

Decide on what you're gonna say. A moment ago, you said "Stop stirring the pot" then you changed it to "Quit tryin' to make trouble" and now it's become "Quit tryin' to make trouble. :p"

It could be something else by the time I'm finished with this post.

[Sexy Celebrity]

And it is now. Now you've removed the stick out tongue smilie and moved that sentence up with the first paragraph.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Also, you changed the sentence in the first paragraph.

[TheUsualSuspect]

Initially conceived as a top 50, discussion to make the top 50 a list to check off....then the rest of the 50, rounding out the top 100 was COMPLETELY POINTLESS then. Might as well just have been top 50, then the rest that didn't make the cut.

Why do a 100 with no intention of including it in anything?

[Sexy Celebrity]

I don't know why I ever cared about this considering my own countdown, which involved members of this site, didn't get any controversy like this. Why didn't a fight break out over there??? Let's all go there and find things to be angry about.

[mark f]

I'm constantly reediting my posts after they've gone out - fixing typos, images, smilies, changing the words to read clearer or less-confrontational. Usually nobody sees it because they're too busy elsewhere. I sometimes have real life interfere with what I'm trying to say too. I guess if somebody doesn't like my changing my posts, I'll just think "whatever". They're my thoughts, not theirs. :) or not.

To answer TUS, I don't know and I don't care, but there was a lack of communication because we are moving very quickly with all these lists, tourneys, commentaries, new members, new layout, more goodies, etc. It will probably happen again and often because so many people think of this site as their own and expect everything to be their way.

[Deadite]

I never expected to get my way. I said that all along. I just didn't expect people to act as if I was threatening their precious 50 list by saying I liked the full 100 list much better.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

I'm constantly reediting my posts after they've gone out - fixing typos, images, smilies, changing the words to read clearer or less-confrontational. Usually nobody sees it because they're too busy elsewhere. I sometimes have real life interfere with what I'm trying to say too. I guess if somebody doesn't like my changing my posts, I'll just think "whatever". They're my thoughts, not theirs. :) or not.


In future, I expect perfect grammar, well-placed smilies, and no provocative statements; just like my posts....:cool:

[Swan]

In future, I expect perfect grammar, well-placed smilies, and no provocative statements; just like my posts....:cool:

Except you use semicolons.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

Except you use semicolons.

That's an American dash. ;)

[Sexy Celebrity]

I like my --------- 's.

[Deadite]

Initially conceived as a top 50, discussion to make the top 50 a list to check off....then the rest of the 50, rounding out the top 100 was COMPLETELY POINTLESS then. Might as well just have been top 50, then the rest that didn't make the cut.

Why do a 100 with no intention of including it in anything?

The Powers That Be wanted us to think we could have a list truly representative of actual voters, then they took our list full of the wrong movies and fixed it. ;)

[Yoda]

Normally, the films that don't make the cut are just listed in plain text. So I'm deeply sorry that a few of you had to go through the emotional trauma of seeing them with posters.

[Sexy Celebrity]

They made the cut.

It's just that Rodent won't be a man and say that they're still a part of the official countdown.

[TheUsualSuspect]

It just seems like a waste of time to me.

[TheUsualSuspect]

But Rodent is awesome for doing this. Good job man.

[Deadite]

Yeah, Thanks for your work, Rodent. Sorry you got caught in between us fighting over TPTB's political BSing.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

I propose a top 1000 countdown. Sexy could do it in 2 days.

[Deadite]

Normally, the films that don't make the cut are just listed in plain text. So I'm deeply sorry that a few of you had to go through the emotional trauma of seeing them with posters.

I guess that insincere apology is the best us voters are gonna get.

[Yoda]

No, the best you got were the myriad of completely sincere explanations I provided initially, most of which you totally brushed off.

Also, if you want to be sincere, maybe don't use your apology to Rodent as an excuse to sneak another jab in. And maybe take the last word when I gladly give it to you, rather than reiterating the exact same complaints over again, even after you've suggested you're moving on.

[The Rodent]

I've given up on the thread tbh... it's been done, dusted and I'm finished with it now :)


One thing though. You don't seem to realise that a even Yods has lost some entries by cutting the list down.


I'm pretty sure Mystery Men was on his list... can't remember the rest though as I've cleared the computer of the Word Docs.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Yeah, but Mystery Men totally deserved to be removed.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

I thought the same about Batman and Robin....

[Deadite]

No, the best you got were the myriad of completely sincere explanations I provided initially, most of which you totally brushed off.

Also, if you want to be sincere, maybe don't use your apology to Rodent as an excuse to sneak another jab in. And maybe take the last word when I gladly give it to you, rather than reiterating the exact same complaints over again, even after you've suggested you're moving on.

Jesus, give it a rest already. I was playing around. Here I thought we'd cooled off and you're getting all "self-righteous fixer of wrong opinions" again. :rolleyes:

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

This thread is getting out of hand now - we're risking a break in the spiritual unity of forum with this continual arguing. I demand that Yoda and Deadite kiss and makeup before these bad vibes bring down the whole forum. :yup:

[Deadite]

We can all stand united again. At the very least we can all agree that Mystery Men sucks.

[jiraffejustin]

Bros, let's chill

[Swan]

We can all stand united again. At the very least we can all agree that Mystery Men sucks.

I don't agree to that.

[Deadite]

C'mere Yoda... :kiss: It's not gay if you feel awkward about it.

[jiraffejustin]

But it is gay if you keep your eyes open.

[Yoda]

It's not gay if one of you is a Jedi.

[Deadite]

What is that? A Jedi mind trick?

[Sexy Celebrity]

It's not gay if one of you is a Jedi.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls7dtgdrGu1qcr7fqo1_r1_500.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq47cnMiTyI

[The Gunslinger45]

Oh MY!

[Deadite]

*bump* :drevil:

[mark f]

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/39744/882285-thread_crap_die.jpg

[Guaporense]

Iron Man and The Dark Knight are very good movies. Glad to see Sin City so high, it's a great movie as well.

[Zotis]

We can all stand united again. At the very least we can all agree that Mystery Men sucks.

WTF? Mystery Men is my favorite Ben Stiller movie... it's one of my favorite comedies... it's... hilarious.....

How can you not find this funny?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXFR1L_gOg8

[Deadite]

I liked Mystery Men pretty well. I was just tryin to be funny.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/72/32/3c/72323cfb9e81c25235a67727a1893609.jpg

[Deadite]

This thread is an alien experiment on the human mind, clearly.

[Guaporense]

Cutting the "fat" out of the list we get the best non-English comic book movies (basically, a list of the best manga based movies with a couple of non-manga ones thrown in):

24. One Piece Film: Z (2012)
23. Azumi (2003)
22. Beck (2010)
21. Ghost In The Shell SAC Solid State Society (2006)
20. From Up On Poppy Hill (2011)
19. Ninja Bugei-Chô (1967)
18. Tomie (1999)
17. Vampire Hunter D (1985)
16. Air Doll (2009)
15. K-On! The Movie (2011)
14. The Disappearance Of Haruhi Suzumiya (2010)
13. Lone Wolf And Cub: Sword Of Vengeance (1972)
12. Memories (1995)
11. Tekkonkinkreet (2006)
10. Only Yesterday (1991)
9. Ichi The Killer (2001)
8. Battle Royale (2000)
7. Porco Rosso (1992)
6. Whisper Of The Heart (1995)
5. Ghost In The Shell (1995)
4. Blue Is The Warmest Colour (2013)
3. Persepolis (2007)
2. Nausicaä Of The Valley Of The Wind (1984)
1. Akira (1988)

Still 9 I haven't watched.

[Deadite]

Huh?

[Guaporense]

Forgot Oldboy in 8th place and would be 1st place in the foreign language comic book movies list.

[The Rodent]

Ok... my Photobucket account is running full, so I'm afraid the 100+ posters and images I made for the Comics Countdown will have to go...


If anyone wants any of them, right click and save them within the next 24 hours.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Just upload images here.

[Sexy Celebrity]

But, serves ya right for deleting half of this list in the first place.

[The Rodent]

The originals are gone. I removed them from the laptop ages ago along with the word docs and excel doc.