Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice

It is a safer bet that only the people who built up the box office of the previous Batman and Superman films will show up than to expect a bigger audience. Think about that really hard and you'll realize it's true. The execs in Hollywood know that, in fact, sequels get greenlit because of a previous films box office and the knowledge that the people who watched the previous installment will watch the new one.

I don't think the buzz on this film is as big, but that's debatable as hell because no one has invented a "buzz-meter" yet...

The last part of this quote could not be more incorrect. If the same audience comes out for BatVSupe and no one else (unlikely), the film wouldn't top a billion. But, I want to address the " fans of Superman and Batman will go to see this,that alone makes 1.5bil,even numbers you wrote make more than that" part...

The real fans of Bats and Supes are comic fans. Click this link! Those are comic book sales for March. At our most optimistic, comic buyers of Batman and Superman might bring ticket sales to 200,000 and at average price of $10 per ticket brings the box office total to a whopping...

$2,000,000.00

You read that right, that's probably less than 1% of this films budget. So don't give me this "fans of Batman and Superman" nonsense. The real fans of superheroes aren't even factoring into comic adaptations and they never have.

I already pointed out the comic fans number is insignificant. There are no non-comic readers who are fans of Auquaman, Cyborg, etc.

I don't know anyone who "loves" Snyder. If they exist they need to be punched in the groin...

Again, read those comic numbers.

Now, we all know comic fans aren't making the big money here, so we have to look at the audience that does go to comic book based films. That's all the rest of the people. You know, the ones who don't know who most of these characters are.

The reason The Avengers did so amazing is because it had four 2-hour commercials leading up to its release that introduced the real audience to the characters. BatVSupe doesn't. It will make its money based on the fact that comic adaptations are super hot (the majority of people watching this won't even distinguish the fact that these are not Marvel films, they just see superheroes), and based on whatever good will that is leftover from the last two films in these respective franchises. I'd expect, at best, a 10-15% audience bump based on the fact that Batman and Superman are in the same film. If that.

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You can't base the box office gross of this movie on what MOS made. Batman Begins made less than 400m, yet it's sequel made over 1 billion.

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I personally don't care how much this movie makes, I just want to go and see the movie.

In the end you will go to see it and that is my point.
I loved MoS but it was not perfect movie,it was good but far from perfection,if they fix few things and I believe they will then this movie will be fantastic.

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“By definition, you have to live until you die. Better to make that life as complete and enjoyable an experience as possible, in case death is shite, which I suspect it will be.”

"I don't know anyone who "loves" Snyder. If they exist they need to be punched in the groin..."
Sorry but...Bite me.

"The real fans of Bats and Supes are comic fans. Click this link! Those are comic book sales for March. At our most optimistic, comic buyers of Batman and Superman might bring ticket sales to 200,000 and at average price of $10 per ticket brings the box office total to a whopping..."

I was fan of Batman but I didn't read comic books yet...You think Nolan trilogy didn't pull people in? Also,people who loved Nolan trilogy will go to see this,because they are nostalgic,they want to see can this be better.Also here is one more example,my friends are not comic book readers but they went with me to every superhero movie in general,they like it but they don't read comics,odd right?But that is the situation.Who cares about numbers from March?You do understand people stop reading,skip few books...When I talked about numbers I was talking about people who saw Nolan's trilogy and MoS they alone can make to 1.6bil so even if you cut in half what MoS earned you still have 1.3bil,someone mentioned it already but I'll do it again,BB earned something around 400mil so yea let's keep the numbers...If you think only comic-book fans are fans of Batman and Superman then I don't know what to tell you,this is pointless argument because you refuse or don't see it or whatever...Example:My dad watched every Superman movie and he never read superhero comic.

"Now, we all know comic fans aren't making the big money here, so we have to look at the audience that does go to comic book based films. That's all the rest of the people. You know, the ones who don't know who most of these characters are."

DC+MARVEL+Dark Horse+Vertigo=Very decant number.
I'm not saying comic-book fans are only ones to go,but you cant ignore it,they are decant number ,also Nolan's trilogy will bring huge number,MoS will bring good numbers,people who loved Watchmen and 300 etc...Its just ignorant to talk about this,I don't know why did you even start with number,let's just use Fight Club as example...But you wanted to go with numbers so here we are,trying to be logical...

Measuring the comic book fans by floppy sales numbers is flawed. Not every fan buys in floppy format (trade paperbacks and digital are other options). Not every fan buys every issue.

To say the only Batman fans are the comic fans is nuts. Fans of the Burton movies. Fans of the Nolan movies. Fans of the Arkham games or the DC fighting games. Fans of the TV show. People who have barely consumed any Batman media but by connection through other nerdy hobbies know enough about him to call themselves fans. I'd never read a Batman comic before this year, and even before I watched the Nolan films I remember thinking Batman was really cool. All people who will see any movie with him in probably opening weekend.

Still, I do believe the fans are a small part of a film's success. Will the "average moviegoers" ie. non-fans, turn out in huge numbers? Did people like Man of Steel? That's a big factor. We don't know what the 90% of the viewers that don't chat about this stuff online really thought about the film, and that will determine whether or not they will go out for the sequel. Then you have the reviews, that effects the cultural buzz, and that effects everyone, fans and non-fans.

You know, I really can't call this one. Right now I feel that, yeah, Batman v. Superman will probably take it, but it is a hard call. It's going to be an event. Avengers was too, but perhaps not to this extent.

What about Age of Ultron vs. Dawn of Justice?

Just thinking about it has gotten me pretty hyped.

The Dark Knight had the benefit of being the last full performance by Heath Ledger and it was rumored before the film was ever released that his performance would be epic. A safer comparison would be between The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises.

Sorry, but, Snyder makes soulless, loud, misogynistic, empty films. He doesn't understand subtlety and, based on Watchmen, he doesn't understand genuine works of art. I don't want to post my Watchmen rant again, but it boils down to the fact that he missed the point of that comic and it shows in the film.

Are you really going to do this? I can show you the annual sales numbers if you'd like. Also, you're the one who brought up the fans of Auquaman, Wonder Woman, etc. and I'm pointing out that the only fans of those characters are going to be comic fans. Period. And those people make up less than 1% of the audience for comic book films. Evidently you know that but you still seem to think there's some magic audience out there for characters no one knows...

Did he watch X-men? The Avengers? Captain America? And so on?

That is the audience Hollywood is banking on. Those people and the people that watched the last Batman and Superman films. Again, that's how sequels work. Movie making is a business. When a studio greenlights a sequel they are banking on getting the people that watched the last film to go see the new one and maybe they hope some new people will show up. That's why it's safer to say the people who watched Man of Steel and The Dark Knight Rises will be the core audience of this film. It's the people on the fence who didn't watch those last two films that they need to convince to show up. I'm not convinced that throwing a bunch of characters that they either barely know or don't know at all will help.

No, they are not. You have nothing to back this up at all.

Yeah, the approximate amount I talked about earlier...

Another lesson for you, the people who know Man of Steel and 300 have the same director is probably a number as big as the people who are familiar with Cyborg. In fact, the average movie goer doesn't give a crap about who directed a film.

Wow. How the hell do you think they operate in Hollywood? Rolling chicken bones and looking into crystal balls? Yeah, I'm talking about numbers because that's exactly what they do to asses whether a film gets made or not! Warner Brothers wants a piece of the Marvel pie and they are trying to get that Avengers box office, but don't think for a second they aren't looking at the exact thing I'm talking about. Only they are doing it on a much more accurate scale. It's entirely about numbers.

You can't really dismiss comic book fans based on their literal size, because they clearly have an outsized influence on word of mouth. I think their influence is as likely to be overstated as understated, but one vociferous comic book fan is not equivalent to one otherwise ordinary ticket-buyer.

Also, couldn't disagree more about Snyder, who gets treated like some kind of Gen-Y Michael Bay even though he's shown repeatedly to be capable of a good deal more. I don't like lots of things about his films, but the potential is there, and he flashes it pretty often (eg: the Dylan credit sequence of Watchmen).

The more films he makes, the crappier he becomes in my eyes. I could not disagree with you more. He is pure style over substance, even the opening credits of Watchmen prove that.

Also, I only brought up the comic audience because Khan was talking about comic character fans. That said, they are not, and never will be, more than the bottom of the bottom of a comic book adaptation's box office. There is no getting around that fact and even the studios know it.

That was the most awesome part of the movie for me, and I loved Watchmen. Yeah youre right, that scene was all him.

I don't see how. They establish the world of the film with grace and efficiency. And as is the case with all good filmmaking, the style compliments and enhances the substance: Dylan's song isn't just a period-appropriate piece, but even its title is a wry nod to the story's entire alternate universe conceit.

I can't get too worked up about anyone who doesn't see Snyder's obvious flashes of talent, because he admittedly flanks them with more vapid stuff. But dismissing such a widely-admired sequence, combined with the use of the word "pure," really just makes this seem like a blanket dismissal.

That's kinda what I mean by the Michael Bay comparison: turning people into a symbol for a current kind of filmmaking, and condemning them mostly on that basis. I think the giveaway is the total lack of nuance, even though the crappiest of directors obviously have their moments.

Yeah dont get me wrong, I compared Zack Snyder to a young James Cameron or Oliver Stone from a few years ago. Not Michael Bay oh hell no lol! Though I made a thread once compaing the two, but that was before I saw MoS. It was more of a getting stagnant type of observation. He just needs to explore more of his storytelling side like that opening sequence, and nuances he showed in 300.

I'm not really sure how this addresses what I said. You already pointed out that the rudimentary math shows that die-hard comic book fans make up a necessarily small part of any box office take, and I replied that they obviously have an outsized influence on word of mouth. We can haggle a bit over how much that matters, but the above is just reiterating the initial point.

I never said Aquaman,Cyborg,WW and others have 100000000000000 fans,I said they will bring people in,if they bring 1 guy then 1 guy it is...

Your opinion on Snyder is yours and I dont want and cant change it,but you cant go around and talk like that about him,you talk like your opinion is a rule a normal thing,you talk like we all should hate Snyder because of some reasons only you can see...Watchmen was fantastic movie,300 is good movie when you take it for what it is...

There is no need to show me annual number because you already said only comic book fans are real fans of Bats and Superman....So really no point...I just fell like you dont understand what I want to say...Maybe like this,when world cup started every football fan watched,many of them didnt have their own county qualified(maybe even majority) but everyone watches because its a big event,I dont know how to say it anymore,Yoda is great at explaining things...

He watched more than you thing,not because he was huge fan of comics and superheroes but because he is fan of MOVIES and there is no way in the world for movie fan to miss movie with Batman and Superman sorry but that is just ignorant,check it out at least...Its like...You talk about audience,Hollywood but that is my point,how can you be a movie fan and tell me people wont go to see this in huge numbers...Batman and Superman in the same movie,everyone will check it out!

Ofc fans of comics will go to see this,Vertigo,DC,Dark Horse it dosent matter...Do I need to talk again how its Batman and Superman in the same movie? Its just...I dont know,I understand what do you want to say but I think you didnt understand what A'm saying...Also all of this started with that bet so I think it would be best to end with it.

Also worth noting that the "comic audience" argument cuts both ways. If they're a small group that don't much factor into a film's success, the flip side of that is that most of the people buying tickets aren't going to be particularly dedicated or informed fans. And if that's the case, then the film will benefit dramatically from the good will resulting from Nolan's trilogy, because most of the more casual moviegoers aren't going to notice or care much that this is a different director. It's just going to be "hey, another Batman movie! I've really liked the last few."

I think he didn't understand what I wanted to say.I'll try to explain myself as good as possible.Comic book fans will go to see it,they will go few times,that will add to number of casual viewers + fans of Snyder+ fans of Nolan trilogy etc I'm saying that its a big plus,I'm saying they are huge names in cultures,they became that big,name itself brings people in,everyone will go to see Batman and Superman in same movie.

Look ime a marvel fan and a Dc fan. As are many others. So who's to say all the people who went to see The Avengers aren't going to see Batman Vs Superman?. The Avengers is a huge success because of all the super Heroes are in one movie. Batman and Superman are bigger than any of the Avengers, so we could see bigger numbers.

You used MOS box office figures to suggest The Avengers numbers can't be reached, but what about these.?

Thor - 450 million
Captain America - 370 million
The Incredible Hulk - 260 million
Iron Man - 580 million.

Where did Avengers Numbers come from ?, surely can't be just from the fans above?.

I've enjoyed all of Snyder's films.

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Also I reject the premise that a movie-goer can't have interest in a superhero film unless he/she was already familiar with the character in print.