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Originally Posted by DalekbusterScreen5
we can deal with things on our own (we can't).
The UK Voting Referendum
Right, the UK is regarded as one of the best places to start business in Europe, yet this will undermine growth and innovation because trade with Europe will now be uncertain (no Brexit campaigner had any comprehensive plan on what to do in this scenario), and almost certainly difficult because they're going to make an example of us (I.e Spain threatening to close the Gibraltan border) to prevent other member states from following suit. The UK will no longer have access to the single market, and countries like Norway pay more to access this market than we did to be just be a part of the eu, by a significant amount as well.
This, added to the fact that the pound is plummeting, isn't really good for us at all, our economy is a lot worse off just 12 hours after the vote than it was a few days ago as part of the EU.
Therefore, we'll be less influential because how can a smaller economy dictate terms to bigger ones, and we were able to as part of the EU where we had stability.
That, and I trust the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the Greens, the Lib Dems, abd Labour over some of the Tory party and UKIP who are only concerned with immigrants on such a matter anyway.
This, added to the fact that the pound is plummeting, isn't really good for us at all, our economy is a lot worse off just 12 hours after the vote than it was a few days ago as part of the EU.
Therefore, we'll be less influential because how can a smaller economy dictate terms to bigger ones, and we were able to as part of the EU where we had stability.
That, and I trust the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the Greens, the Lib Dems, abd Labour over some of the Tory party and UKIP who are only concerned with immigrants on such a matter anyway.
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Originally Posted by CiCi
they're going to make an example of us
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@Dalek Nah, we're still in Nato D, less worries there. There will be love lost though of course.
@Yods, the trade deals angle seems an interesting one where we may struggle more. I'd imagine we'd get more a favourable deal with the US through the TTIP deal rather than in a stand-alone bi-lateral.
I'm not clear on any other complications of inter-European trade once we're out. Doubtless there will be differences, but given we're already outside Schengen (open borders etc) & the single currency not sure what else would alter.
@Yods, the trade deals angle seems an interesting one where we may struggle more. I'd imagine we'd get more a favourable deal with the US through the TTIP deal rather than in a stand-alone bi-lateral.
I'm not clear on any other complications of inter-European trade once we're out. Doubtless there will be differences, but given we're already outside Schengen (open borders etc) & the single currency not sure what else would alter.
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Originally Posted by CiCi
they're going to make an example of us
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We don't have their backing for negotiations anymore. This becomes even more serious when you start to look at things like wars: once we're out of the EU in two years, we won't have their armies to assist us in any battles. We'll be expected to fight them on our own and that'll mean we'll have less soldiers and potentially less control over our land.
The rest of Europe won't help us when we're in trouble anymore. They won't give a damn about us. All those years building bridges and what will it have gained us in the end? Nothing because we decided to be arrogant and claim we can deal with things on our own (we can't).
The rest of Europe won't help us when we're in trouble anymore. They won't give a damn about us. All those years building bridges and what will it have gained us in the end? Nothing because we decided to be arrogant and claim we can deal with things on our own (we can't).
Who are we going to be fighting? We are still a member of Nato and allied with the US who has several bases in the UK.
There wont be any big wars ever again in the nuclear age. Modern wars are fought in the air now anyways with drones and high tech aircraft assisting small groups of special forces.
If you actually think we will end up in a big war, perhaps with a European neighbour then you are borderline delusional.
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That is true, Gandalf, it is very unlikely. But all of our major allies, as well as the heads of MI5 and MI6 insisted that we would nevertheless be safer as a member of the EU.
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Right, the UK is regarded as one of the best places to start business in Europe, yet this will undermine growth and innovation because trade with Europe will now be uncertain (no Brexit campaigner had any comprehensive plan on what to do in this scenario), and almost certainly difficult because they're going to make an example of us (I.e Spain threatening to close the Gibraltan border) to prevent other member states from following suit. The UK will no longer have access to the single market, and countries like Norway pay more to access this market than we did to be just be a part of the eu, by a significant amount as well.
This, added to the fact that the pound is plummeting, isn't really good for us at all, our economy is a lot worse off just 12 hours after the vote than it was a few days ago as part of the EU.
Therefore, we'll be less influential because how can a smaller economy dictate terms to bigger ones, and we were able to as part of the EU where we had stability.
That, and I trust the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the Greens, the Lib Dems, abd Labour over some of the Tory party and UKIP who are only concerned with immigrants on such a matter anyway.
This, added to the fact that the pound is plummeting, isn't really good for us at all, our economy is a lot worse off just 12 hours after the vote than it was a few days ago as part of the EU.
Therefore, we'll be less influential because how can a smaller economy dictate terms to bigger ones, and we were able to as part of the EU where we had stability.
That, and I trust the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the Greens, the Lib Dems, abd Labour over some of the Tory party and UKIP who are only concerned with immigrants on such a matter anyway.
The pound fell 10% but now its only 8%.
Some of the banks fell 30% but its already only 20%.
The head of the powerful BDI has said that Britain will not likely be punished for leaving. So are some of the big Euro car manufacturers going to be told sorry you can't sell in your no.1 market (the UK) to punish them for leaving Europe, don't think so, not one bit.
That is true, Gandalf, it is very unlikely. But all of our major allies, as well as the heads of MI5 and MI6 insisted that we would nevertheless be safer as a member of the EU.
Anyways similar to what Yoda has been saying are the Intelligence services of Europe going to say;
"we re not warning you about this terrorist attack to punish you for Europe" or vice versa.
Don't ****ing think so.
We don't have their backing for negotiations anymore.
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Brexit' to be followed by Grexit. Departugal. Italeave. Czechout. Finish. Latervia. Byegium.
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the populace always criticise their leaders don't they? I don't like him but I don't despise him as much as I did Thatcher. Maybe he was just not man enough to take on such a massive job as taking a country out of the EU - it's going to be administrative hell.
Or maybe he just couldn't stand to be in the same room as a smirking Farage or facing Boris Johnson jollying him along. That's enough to make anyone resign.
Or maybe he just couldn't stand to be in the same room as a smirking Farage or facing Boris Johnson jollying him along. That's enough to make anyone resign.
Therefore, we'll be less influential because how can a smaller economy dictate terms to bigger ones, and we were able to as part of the EU where we had stability.
That, and I trust the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the Greens, the Lib Dems, abd Labour over some of the Tory party and UKIP who are only concerned with immigrants on such a matter anyway.
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Originally Posted by CiCi
It's the lesser of two evils by a considerable degree (to remain)
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I'm kinda waiting for a specific "this is why it's bad" argument, as opposed to the "I'm not sure what happens next, and I've decided that's inherently bad."
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Originally Posted by Yoda
or is it all vague assertions about how smaller states obviously are at some nebulous disadvantage,
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