Who will take on Obama in 2012?

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Keep on Rockin in the Free World
He has also said the income tax is unconstitutional, which is false. He may not like it, but there is a constitutional amendment that allows it and many income tax avoiders in jail who have argued the same thing in court and lost.
There are also income tax avoiders that have argued in court and won.


Tax 'Protester' Vindicated in Federal Court

Government Was Unable To Prove U.S. Law Requires Income Tax Withholding or Filing

by Marcus K. Dalton
Las Vegas Tribune | June 24, 2005


The federal government's campaign against income tax protesters suffered a major setback on Thursday June 23 when a federal jury in Sacramento acquitted a former Internal Revenue Service investigator on charges of helping to prepare false tax returns.

Joseph Banister, a certified public accountant in San Jose, Calif., had been telling his clients they don't need to file federal income tax returns because the 16th Amendment, which gives Congress "power to lay and collect taxes on incomes," was never properly ratified.

During the trial, Banister's former supervisor at IRS’s San Jose Criminal Investigation Division office, Robert Gorini (who testified via video recording) when pointedly asked, was unable to cite any U.S. law that required Banister to pay income taxes.

Banister is part of a nationwide effort seeking to force the U.S. Government to respond to a series of detailed legal Petitions for Redress of Grievances directly challenging the authority of the IRS. Last summer, the We The People Foundation initiated a landmark lawsuit with 2000 plaintiffs against the government because it has refused to answer the Petitions.

After hearing a guest on his favorite radio show claim that the federal income tax was voluntary, Banister, then a San Jose, California resident and Special Agent of the IRS Criminal Investigation Division, set out to dismiss the claim as frivolous. Devvy Kid made the disturbing claim on the Geoff Metcalf radio show back in 1997 that sent Banister on a journey that would change his life.

Banister recalls, “As an IRS agent I was upset at the claim. I respected Geoff Metcalf. He was a fair and non-partisan host. When he let the charge that the income tax was voluntary go by, I decided that on my own time, and at my own expense, I was going to research and in two weeks or so, disprove the guest’s claim.”

Two years later, Banister had grudgingly convinced himself that the “federal income tax was a fraud”. He then went on to write a ninety five-page report that he would present to his immediate supervisor, Bob Gorini, who also was a family friend. Telling his supervisor to forward his analysis up the chain of command, Banister asked the IRS to “show me the error of my analysis or I will have to resign."

Banister said his superiors refused to respond to his report and told him they would facilitate his resignation.


Similar to Las Vegan Irwin Schiff

On March of last year the federal government persuaded a grand jury to indict Irwin Schiff, Cynthia Neun and Larry Cohen to a 33 Count indictment charging violations similar to those that Banister faced.

On March 25, 2005 Schiff filed a motion to dismiss both counts, since Schiff claimed the IRS was given no authority in the Internal Revenue Code do anything. Schiff also claimed: "While the office of the Commissioner of Internal Revenue was created by the Tax Act of July 1, 1862, Congress never passed a law establishing the Internal Revenue Service as an agency or department of the federal government." Therefore," Schiff argued, "how could the defendants have "impaired or obstructed" an agency that does not legally exist from doing anything?"

The Schiff motion pointed out that while earlier laws gave direct enforcement authority of income tax laws to the Commissioner of Internal Revenue "all such authority was removed from the 1954 Code, when Congress sought to bring the 1954 Code in line with the Constitution and what early Supreme Court decisions specifically held was the legal significance of the 16th Amendment which was that it gave no new power of taxation to Congress." It is Schiff's view that in revising the 1939 Code, Congress essentially repealed the income tax and removing any mention of the Commissioner in the 1954 Code was one-way Congress sought to achieve that objective.

Individual income taxes, Schiff tells everyone who will listen, are voluntary, but almost everyone pays because politicians have enacted complicated laws to trick people into thinking they must pay.

The works of Irwin Schiff are now widely cited in the literature of tax protesters and right-wing organizations challenging the legitimacy of the Federal Government. Over the years, he has been a frequent guest on talk shows around the country, having discussed the issue with the likes of Larry King, Tom Snyder and other prominent talk-show hosts.

Schiff has sold nearly 100,000 copies of his book, “The Federal Mafia, How The Government Illegally Imposes and Unlawfully Collects Income Taxes," which was banned in 2003 from further sales in a preliminary Injunction issued by U.S. District Court Judge, Lloyd D. George. Apparently there is censorship in America.

Mr. Schiff preaches that “a compulsory income tax would violate the Constitution despite the 16th Amendment, and so the Internal Revenue Code was written to make paying income taxes appear mandatory.”

Banister Not Guilty

A jury in the U.S. District Court in Sacramento found Banister not guilty on a charge of conspiracy to defraud the government and on all three counts of aiding and assisting the filing of false tax returns for a client.

Banister's attorney, Robert Bernhoft, speaking to WorldNetDaily said that the implications of Banister's victory are bigger than the issue of taxes. "The outcome shows that average, law-abiding, hard-working citizens are not going to criminalize speech -- they're not going to send a man to prison for asking the federal government serious questions about a serious subject," Bernhoft added.

Last fall, IRS spokesman Anthony Burke insisted Banister's arguments against the federal income tax already had been thoroughly vetted. "Many constitutional or legal arguments have been tried in the courts, and without fail, they have been held to be without merit."

Banister's website offers a defense of his views, including an 85-page report titled "Investigating The Federal Income Tax: A Preliminary Report."

The federal indictment accused Banister and co-defendant Walter A. Thompson, of Redding, Calif., of conspiring to defraud the United States of approximately $259,669 in income and employment taxes. In a separate trial, Thompson was acquitted of conspiracy and found guilty on charges unrelated to Banister.

If Banister had been convicted of all counts, he could have been sentenced to 14 years in prison and a fine of $1 million.

Banister left public practice as a CPA in 1993 to become an armed, criminal investigator in the IRS Criminal Investigation Division. But he says he resigned after six years because he was "unable to resolve conflicts" between the way the IRS administered the federal income tax and his oath of office.

WorldNetDaily reported in March 2004, that Banister claimed the IRS was illegally using "enforcers" to monitor his political activities and build its case against him. The IRS filed a complaint March 19, 2003, and began what he calls the agency's "mission to silence and discredit me."

"Everything I have done in my entire career at the I.R.S. and after, I've done with integrity and honesty," Mr. Banister said after the verdict. "My clients wanted some answers to questions about what was required."

He added: "As a C.P.A., my duties are to my clients, to make sure they get the best results."

Schiff's criminal trial is scheduled to begin August 29, 2005 before District Court Judge Kent J. Dawson

-------------------------------
Marcus K. Dalton is the Managing Editor of the Las Vegas Tribune.


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Now as it happens, I'm a progressive independant so I don't advcocate this action, I believe in taxes, just thought i'd post the counterpoint.


Also, I'd love to see Ron Paul get the nomination, though he doesn't stand a chance in hell of getting it, no matter how popular he may be.

I don't see a man being featured in a tv show called Conspiracy Theory getting the nomination.

(his segment kicks in round the 6 minute mark)


I'd love to be wrong.
__________________
"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo.



Interesting link, though I'd be curious as to whether or not that's been overturned, since it happened in '05. I'd be a little surprised if that decision stood, which is the real test. There's always some crazy judge willing to do something like this, but I think it's usually superceded one way or another.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Schiff himself has gone to prison for not paying his income tax. The argument certainly didn't work for Wesley Snipes. That jury may have bought the argument for some reason, most don't.
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Keep on Rockin in the Free World
I believe there is still the $50,000 challenge out there.

if you can cite the law that says paying income tax on ones labour is mandatory, you collect the 50 g's.

I.R.S. agents cant find it, so good luck with that.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Guess what? Irwin Schiff, who is the focus of the article, is in jail right now and is serving a 16 year sentence for not paying his income tax. And he has been in jail before.



Keep on Rockin in the Free World
I'll take a look in my mountain of bookmarks later today Chris insofar as the challenge goes. I haven't honestly followed up on it much, since watching the freedom to facism doc when it came out.

i as well did a quick search and turned up this recent hit though. Might be of interest.

Oh and Will, being imprisoned means a person is found to be guilty in that instance. That sometimes folks are found innocent and somethimes folks are found guilty should bring you pause.

either a law is being broken, or it isn't. n'est pas?

IRS loses challenge
to prove tax liability
Lawyer is acquitted after arguing
income levy lacks legal foundation



http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=42749


The Internal Revenue Service has lost a lawyer's challenge in front of a jury to prove a constitutional foundation for the nation's income tax, and the victorious attorney now is setting his sights higher.

"I think now people are beginning to realize that this has got to be the largest fraud, backed up by intimidation and extortion and by the sheer force of taking peoples property and hard-earned money without any lawful authorization whatsoever," lawyer Tom Cryer told WND just days after a jury in Louisiana acquitted him of two criminal tax counts.

And before you consign him to the legions of "tin foil hat brigades" who argue against paying taxes, and then want payment to explain how to do that, he addresses the issue up front.


"These snake oil peddlers have conned millions of dollars out of many well-intended patriots and left a trail of broken lives in their wake. … These charlatans should be avoided, not only because they will lead you to bankruptcy and prison, but because by association they discredit those who are telling the truth," he said.

The truth, he said, is where he comes in, with the launch of a new Truth Attack website that is intended to build on his victory, and create a coalition of resources to defeat – ultimately – the income tax in the United States.


Although the legal citations in the case tend to run the length of paragraphs, Cryer told WND the underlying issue is not that complicated. Essentially, he argued that income is not necessarily any money that comes to a person, but rather categories such as profit and interest.

He said the free exchange of labor for compensation has been upheld as a right by the Supreme Court, but that doesn't necessarily make the compensation income.

If ever such an argument were to be presented widely, Cryer said, the income to the federal government would plummet. But not to worry, he said, the expenses could be reduced equally by eliminating programs, departments and agencies that also have no foundation in the Constitution.

"The Founding Fathers intentionally restricted the taxing powers of the new federal government as a measure of restraint on its size. By exceeding that limited taxing authority the federal government has been able to obtain resources beyond its intended reach, and that money has enabled the federal government to exceed its authority," he said.

For example, he said, the Constitution does not empower the federal government to regulate education, or employment, and agriculture, yet it does so.

The jury in U.S. District Court in Louisiana voted 12-0 to find Cryer, of Shreveport, not guilty of failure to file income taxes for two years. He had been indicted in 2006 on charges of failing to pay $73,000 to the IRS in 2000 and 2001. The next step in his personal case will be up to the IRS and prosecutors, if they choose to continue the issue, he said.

But for the rest of the nation, he's working with Save-a-Patriot, the Free Enterprise Society, Live Free Now and his own Lie Free Zone to spread the message of the truth.

"There are three points that are important," he told WND. "There's no law making the average working man liable [for income taxes], there's no law or regulation that allows the IRS to contend that earnings are 100 percent profit received in exchange for nothing, and the right to earn a living through any lawful occupation is a constitutionally protected fundamental right, and it is exempt from taxation."

Spokesman Robert Marvin in Washington's IRS office told WND the Internal Revenue Code provides for taxation on salaries or wages, but when pressed for a specific citation, or constitutional provision, he said, "I can't comment."

Cryer's encounter with tax law began more than a decade ago when a friend told him the income tax was sham. Cryer started researching, hoping to keep his friend out of trouble. But his conclusions, after years of research, were exactly what his friend told him.

He researched not only tax laws, but also the documents pertaining to the drafting of the U.S. Constitution as well as the first income tax.

He said throughout his battle, he's offered at every turn to pay taxes if the IRS could show him the authorization, and that never has happened.

"The Criminal Investigation Division and Department of Justice both responded only with 'your position is frivolous.' I had never stated a position, so how could they know whether it was frivolous?" he said. "Imagine my sending you a bill for $1,000 and when you call me and ask what the bill was for I simply said, 'that position is frivolous, just write the check and send it in.'"

His acquittal, he said, was a precedent because it means "people can see and recognize the truth."

He said multiple Supreme Court opinions have affirmed an individual's ownership of his or her own labor, and "exercising your fundamental rights" is not taxable. "It is definitely a trade. What most people receive in the form of wages, salaries or in my case fees that they personally earned for their labor is not received in exchange for nothing."

He said there might be a profit that should be taxable, but there might not.

"The IRS lets Wal-Mart sell a trillion dollars worth of goods, but they can back out their cost of goods [before being taxed,]" he said. "The IRS considers, in the case of a Wal-Mart wage earner, 100 percent of what he takes in is profit."

"But he's using his life, energy and work lifespan, and depleting it as he goes," Cryer told WND. "[Working] is a God-given fundamental right that is protected under the Constitution and can't be taxed any more than exercising freedom of speech."

While he waits to see what, if anything, the IRS and Justice Department will do next in his case, he's working to coordinate the groups that are battling taxation as unconstitutional.

"I have started a campaign to unify [the work] and we've got a number of organizations that are sponsoring and supporting this campaign," he said. The goal is to get everyone "who is aware of the truth" organized so they can spread the word.

He warned without a restoration of constitutional basics, the nation is lost.

"Read your Constitution and you will see that the federal role does not include ANY authority to regulate or tax any citizen directly and that WE expressly reserved the right to rule and govern ourselves as States, not as mere political subdivisions," his website says.

"The Constitution does not allow the government to run your lives, but the money it is stealing from millions of Americans is the fuel for its over-reaching and kibitzing. Take the money back and we and our states and communities can again be free," he said.

The fight is over "our FREEDOM from rule by a DISTANT RULER, just as we fought to free ourselves of a distant England over 200 years ago," he said.

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Read more: IRS loses challenge to prove tax liability http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=42749#ixzz1LsdqQFmo

At the end of the day, the only folks that can afford to pay the legal fees to "fight city hall", in reality make enough dough so that their tax burden should be fairly minimal in the first place imo.

I mean speaking for myself. The wife and i pay less in federal taxes each year than our eldest children do, and thats with an income that is roughly 6x theirs.

provincially, and municipal taxes, well thats a completely different kettle of fish.


back to the main point of all of this though, Ron Paul doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting the nomination.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
You gotta be kidding, Dexter. Your article cites Irwin Sciff, the main exponent of that argument. He has been in prison repeatedly for not paying his income tax. He is there right now with a big sentence for being a repeat offender. Many of his followers have been found guilty of the same. So one person in 2005 lucked out with a jury (and that is a biased article so we don't know for sure why the jury acquitted him). Look at this link. Do you really believe the courts in this country think the income tax is illegal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irwin_Schiff



Keep on Rockin in the Free World
Now as it happens, I'm a progressive independant so I don't advcocate this action, I believe in taxes, just thought i'd post the counterpoint.
Will i posted the counterpoint. I'm in no way shape or form suggesting you or your countrymen oughta take this course of action.

It is simply a falsehood to claim that it is against the law to not pay tax derived from your personal labour.

no such law exists.


You failed to mention the main guy in the first article was Joe Bannister a former IRS criminal investigator.



&feature=related



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
I focused in Schiff because I am real familiar with him. He has been around a long time and discredited. As for Joe Bannister, he is not very credible either:

On August 27, 2008, the United States Tax Court ruled that Banister was liable for federal income taxes and penalties for failure to file his 2002 federal income tax return and report, as income, over $23,000 in a distribution from a retirement plan and other income.[12] Banister appealed, and the United States Court of Appeals ruled against him



Keep on Rockin in the Free World
Somethen is fishy. when i google " was joe bannister ever convicted of tax evasion"

i get this :

http://familyfraud.com/irs-cid-speci...is-verdict.htm

IRS CID Special Agent Acquitted of Tax Fraud, what do you think of this verdict?
Saturday, June 19th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
And goes on to tell the same recounting of the original post of his aquittal.

and this is the 2nd hit

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/chan...id=2357&page=1

No Conspiracy: IRS Agent Joe Banister Acquitted
by JOHN TURNER

At approximately 2 p.m. on the 14th floor of the Federal Court Building in Sacramento, California, Joe Banister supporters got word that the judge had received a note from the jury and quickly moved from the hallway into the courtroom. He announced that the jury had reached a unanimous decision.

The verdicts were read by the clerk of the court with Judge William Shubb presiding: "Not Guilty", "Not Guilty", "Not Guilty", "Not Guilty". Carol Delaney, assistant prosecutor in the case, was not in attendance at the verdict.

Very telling at that moment was the absence of the many IRS employees that had been in attendance during the trial.

In victory, Joe Banister, honorable and unpretentious man that he is, walked over to the government's side and shook the hands of the two IRS CID special agents who had investigated him, as well as the government's lead attorney, Mr. Twiss. Also very telling, Sean Breslin, the special agent in charge, stood looking at Joe with a big smile and tears in his eyes.
in any event Will, i suspect you haven't bothered to watch the vids i presented, but rather were in a hurry to prove you were right by posting wiki links.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
What is fishy is your sources, Why don't you cite real news sources instead of income tax protestors blogs? Look at the dates on your first link. It is dated June 19th, but the acquittal was on June 23rd! The reason? What they are reporting actually happened in 2005 and the second link refers to the same case. He was found not guilty of conspiring with Al Thompson, who didn't pay his income taxes and WAS found guilty.



The verdicts were read by the clerk of the court with Judge William Shubb presiding: "Not Guilty", "Not Guilty", "Not Guilty", "Not Guilty". Carol Delaney, assistant prosecutor in the case, was not in attendance at the verdict.

Very telling at that moment was the absence of the many IRS employees that had been in attendance during the trial.

In victory, Joe Banister, honorable and unpretentious man that he is, walked over to the government's side and shook the hands of the two IRS CID special agents who had investigated him, as well as the government's lead attorney, Mr. Twiss. Also very telling, Sean Breslin, the special agent in charge, stood looking at Joe with a big smile and tears in his eyes.
Don't give a damn if it's right or wrong, but that is absolutely the worse "news" report I've ever read. Giving the verdicts but not the charges is like that old joke: "Now here are some baseball scores. 18, 3, and 24."

I especially love the schlock in the second graf: "Joe Banister, honorable and unpretentious man that he is ...." Gag me with a spoon! The writer couldn't signal his prejudice more if they had a photo of him kissing Joe Banister's butt! And I can just picture IRS agents lining up to shake hands with a suspect they investigated who was just acquited. You know that would be a great career move. One I'd loved to have seen, however, was the "very telling" Sean Breslin--I've never yet seen someone who had both tears and a big smile "in his eyes!"

Jeeze, I've read better reporting in jr. high school papers!



Keep on Rockin in the Free World
IRS commissioner Sheldon Cohen clears it all up here :

&feature=BFp&list=WLC05DAE75FB41F586&index=41



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
You can believe what you want, Dexter. It is in the Constitution and most people who don't pay it are found guilty if they don't plead it down, which is frequently the case. You cite a misleading story about Joe Bannister and when it is pointed out you don't acknowledge it. I don't feel like reading too much about Bannister, but believe in his case he called Al Thompson a liar, which means he was arguing he didn't help him not pay his taxes, not you didn't have to file as his legal defense. He wasn't directly challenging the law as his defense.



To be completely fair, the Constitution just allows for the legality of extracting an income tax (the 16th Amendment, specifically), which isn't quite the same thing as a specific law enacting said tax. I think there probably is one, but since the point is largely a technical one I think the distinction is worth making.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
"It is simply a falsehood to claim that it is against the law to not pay tax derived from your personal labour.

no such law exists"

I see what you're doing, you're playing a semantics game, saying that precise wording doesn't exist. I don't know what exactly the wording is, but this is the law that created the income tax:

One of the first events of Wilson's presidency was the passage of the Underwood Tariff. This reduced tariff rates from 41 to 27%. It also created the first federal income tax after the passage of the 16th Amendment.



It's more than semantics; if, in fact, there was no law that actually, specifically mandated an income tax, then the guy in question would have found himself a loophole. My skepticism as to the factual accuracy of the claim is based in the idea that, if not shot down by a court, the loophole would surely be quickly closed. But I do think it's a simple matter of facts: if no such law exists, then the guy found a hole in the system. If it does, then the logic was never at fault, just the claim of the fact.



funny. when i took a glance on the title of thread for the first time i thought it was Osama.

can Obama still run again on the next election?