Star Wars: Episode VIII – The Last Jedi

Im gonna say carrie fisher heart probably was strained from likely alcohol and drug abuse ive heard rumors was pretty bad. Carrie was at a better place in her life id say after she had her daughter. Carrie was pretty chunky and so wasnt Mark Hamill right before they started. But i think Mark and Carrie did the same work out and weight loss program together. So i am sure it was mentioned like during the table read which likely gave them a year to get ready.
I dont see kennedy being pro women and all putting up with too much needling a women actors in star wars from Disney

I honestly don't see why people were so angry about The Last Jedi, it was a quality film, entertaining, and it took things in a different and surprising direction. I liked that Rey's parents weren't important, I'm sick of the "Chosen One" trope that's in EVERY SINGLE sci-fi/fantasy film. Tired of that one. And Luke? I LOVED what was done with his character. Imagine you fought to make the world a better place, you lost friends and family in the cause, and then the world just beelines back to fascism and darkness. Also imagine that you believed this was totally your fault. Yeah. I'd be a bitter old hermit, too. Also, his end made perfect narrative sense. Luke could NOT be the big hero in the end because it would totally invalidate Rey, who's been set up as the hero of this trilogy. Luke just showing up and going "I got this, you can go," would be total crap, no matter what fanboys might say. Rian Johnson gave people something that wasn't predictable or just plain "Here you go, fanboys, exactly what you wanted." I honestly hate the new fanboy entitlement syndrome. It will be the death of genre film as an artform.

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Star Wars: The Last Jedi - 7.3 on IMDB
Star Wars: The Force Awakens - 8.0 on IMDB

Is it obvious which film is more superior? I think so.

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If it was that obvious, you wouldn't have posted that.

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Oh ok that explains it then...sleep apnea haha.

In addition to this I was only aware a couple of days ago of Daisy Ridleys quote where she says that Rian Johnston literally had carte blanche to come in and do "whatever he wanted" with episode 8 and he re wrote the entire thing, this vindicates a lot of what was being said in the other thread. I remember the idea that there was no overall layout/plan for the new trilogy being scoffed at by you and others but that has been proven wrong.



Anyways, the Telegraph in the UK are calling Solo's opening weekend "a bomb". ( though in the article they are mixing up Solo's predecessor "TLJ with ROTJ)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/20...bs-box-office/

$100 million is of course a lot of money but it's all downhill from there. Competing against Infinity War and Deadpool 2 doesn't look too smart either.


I was reading about the Marvel process the other day, collaboration between comic writers, script writers, directors, fan input and studio oversight/communication has led to a very smooth output of films year after year that interconnect very well. Amazingly Lucasfilm, under the same over lordship as Marvel seems to be a complete shambles, handing each director carte blanche to do whatever they want, firing directors mid shoot, no clear cohesive plan, insulting of fans criticism, trying to shoehorn in trendy political themes of the day. Colin Trevorrow was sacked for creative differences over episode 9, is it possible he stood up to Johnston/Kennedy over their episode 8 stupidity?

If Kathleen Kennedy makes it to the next Star Wars film I will be astonished.

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Vindicated on a factual basis, perhaps, but this doesn't necessarily mean that the original plan was necessarily better - the higher-ups allowing Johnson to complete his entire film instead of meddling with it as with Rogue and Solo would suggest this.

Or maybe it's because Trevorrow made such a notorious trainwreck like The Book of Henry on his own that they decided he shouldn't be in charge (seriously, watch it and tell me that you want its director making a Star Wars movie - and that's without getting into how messy a blockbuster he made with Jurassic World). It's not like Marvel hasn't pulled similar stuff like getting Edgar Wright to quit Ant-Man or dabbled in "trendy" political themes either.

Nope, because that's not what I said, or what Ridley said. Which I was able to guess when you decided not to link to either.

In the other thread, I "scoffed" at the idea that they were "winging it."

And here's the Ridley quote :

Yeah main lines of the trilogy probably meaning Rey and Ren only, if Johnston had altered their trajectory there would be nothing left. Lots of haters said Rey and Ren were the best parts of the film, perhaps its not a coincidence that they were the only parts Johnston couldn't really change.

Its a bit childish to bolden the part of the quote that tenuously defends your position whilst ignoring the first line, "rewrote TLJ entirely".

Suppose that's as close to an "I was wrong" as I will ever get from you.

The original plan couldn't possibly have been any worse.

I'm not familiar with Book of Henry. It just highlights what a mess things are behind the scenes though bringing in multiple mediocre directors with creative control, then not have them create a cohesive plan together with the help of many others like they are clearly doing over at Marvel.

I liked Jurassic World in a 6.5/7 out of 10 sort of way. Not ground breaking but breathing new life into a dead dog.


This is an actual tweet from someone working at Lucasfilm, and involved with the creative process.


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I wasn't the one arguing that there was no plan, so I didn't make a claim to be proved wrong about in the first place - your argument is clearly with Yoda here. As for the original plan, that's your presumption but I guess it can't really be proved either way unless they release some tell-all behind-the-scenes material or something.

That's an improvement on assuming that he got fired because his creative differences were good ones, I guess.

And you have the gall to complain about The Last Jedi.

I'm not seeing the problem here.

1. That still contradicts the idea that they're just "winging it."

2. You've gone from "I'm vindicated!" to "well I think it probably meant this."

It really isn't. It's actually standard, to the point of being boring, to highlight the portion of a quote relevant to whatever you're saying.

And if it's childish for me to merely bold the part I'm referencing (while leaving the other part in for anyone to see), what term would you use to describe someone completely omitting the part that doesn't fit? Because that's what you did.

They are winging it.

If you are suggesting Rian Johnston could get rid of the main hero or villain in the middle episode, then again you are being stubborn and silly. Literally everything else was taken in the wrong direction.

The quote reads, he changed everything, except the stuff you literally cant change. You can't kill Harry Potter and Voldemort in the middle episodes.

Having ironclad things you cannot change is pretty much the exact opposite of "winging it."

The fact that he couldn't do this is precisely why hyperbole like "they're winging it" was stubborn and silly. Every discussion about this has been fraught with compulsive overstatement.

...which is totally consistent with what I said before, which you seem to have conveniently misremembered (and conspicuously not bothered to check) so you could fabricate a sense of vindication.

Also, you keep leaving out that she just says "I think" and "I believe." Even when you're saying "the quote reads," you don't seem to be reading the quote.

Well, Star Wars isn’t Harry Potter. As far as I can tell, the reason Johnson rewrote TLJ as much as he did was to differentiate it from The Force Awakens’ adherence to A New Hope and to further focus on the two main characters (Rey and Ben) going forward.

Im Not Sure Disney Can Fire Kennedy. They can maybe scrap Johnsons Trilogy but do remember George Lucas was in on this deal and I am certain he had the contract made up that head of Lucasfilm will have say on the company and She likely has to step down or Violate her contract with Disney. Disney may be able to change what they are going to do plan wise. But am certain Kennedy will still be in charge just changes will have to happen.

We're getting into fundamental as you put it "ironclad" rules here. If you remove Rey and Ren, either or both in the middle episode what are you left with? You know you are talking pure nonsense. Give me any example of a trilogy or franchise series of films removing either the hero or the only villain before the finale.

What you are suggesting here is something that has never happened before, and no filmmaker could ever get away with.


Lets look at the quote again then.

He didn't keep anything from the first draft. He just did what he wanted and seemingly had the arrogance to believe he could go his own direction without any help.

Every film or series of films will follow the same unbreakable set of rules, a protagonist will go on a journey facing challenges along the way and triumph over some evil. Remove the protagonist or evil and you don't have a story. So suggesting a Director could come in and dispense with the protagonist or evil is silly.

He could have done that anyway, it was a new film, I was one of the ones clamouring for that new direction but not a film that doesn't make virtually any coherent sense.

You've just completely turned yourself around on this one, dude. No, I'm not suggesting they could do that. They obviously can't. That's been my point the whole time.

Here's how this has gone: you say they're making up everything and have no rules. I say: nah, this is just more careless overstatement, of course there are rules. Now you're coming back months later, agreeing there are obviously some rules, but somehow you've mutated that into a contradiction of what I originally said, rather than the vindication that it actually is.

So, what’s happening here? Are you working under the assumption that Luke and Snoke were meant to be more the focus of the new trilogy? Because, clearly they weren’t. They’re important pieces of the story but Rey and Ren are more so and they did survive for longer. Luke is the burnt out mentor in need of redemption. Snoke is the all too literal embodiment of evil that’s there to contrast the more benevolent character (Rey) and give the one in a moral grey area (Ren) something interesting to clash with. Snoke is as much a maguffin as the lightsaber. You can apply both of those descriptions to Obi-Wan and The Emperor so, y’know, it’s within the rules of the series so of course a filmmaker could see that set-up and think “well, this is just the basic stuff so I’ll do it.”