The Movieforums Top 100 War Movies Countdown

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Come and See was #2 on my ballot. Enough has already been written on why it's probably the most horrifying and devastating non‐horror film ever made, so I don't think I can offer anything new on that aspect. I'm sure the propaganda claim will come up a few times throughout this discussion, but I think it's a very misguided way of looking at the film. Yes, the portrayal of the Nazis is undoubtedly over‐the‐top, but I think it should be obvious that the film isn't trying to go for realism, nor are we meant to take the over‐the‐top acting and surreal set pieces in the final act at face value. It's clearly going for surrealism. The opening scene of Florya's friend mimicking the village elder's raspy voice does a great job at setting you up for the tone of the film. We're watching the film from the perspective of a child, so it's normal for the war to feel strange, bent out of shape, and for the savagery of the perpetrators of the violence to be colored by Florya's perception of them. This is exactly what we're being presented in the film. It's easily the best usage of subjectivity I've ever seen. It's also important to note that the Nazis in the film are based on the Dirlewanger brigade, which wasn't a disciplined military unit. They were mainly made up of army rejects and criminals (rapists and murderers, mainly), so the surreal portrayal of them during the village massacre does a great job at capturing the real‐life savagery of the Nazis. This premise won't work for everyone, but I will hold back on some claims I've heard over the years that the film is offensive or problematic. It's not like the film portrays the victims of the village massacre in any over‐the‐top way. This degree of surrealism is fixated entirely on the Nazis. Is the film offensive to the victims for portraying the perpetrators of their deaths (who are obviously awful people) in a surreal manner? Because I don't see how that makes any sense. On the other hand, is the movie offensive to the Nazis? Sure, I guess, but who gives a shit about them? Again, the surreal portrayal won't work for everyone, so if you found that element distracting, that's fine. However, I think some of the criticism this film has received for that aspect is unnecessarily extreme. Calling the film propaganda is ignoring the various reasons behind why it's directed the way it is.

Apocalypse Now was #7 on my ballot. Like Come and See, so much has been written on the film that I don't think I can offer anything new on it. I will post a review I wrote for it in a Hall of Fame though:

I watched the Redux version several years ago and, while I loved certain parts of it, it dragged for me in some other scenes and I didn't enjoy it as much as I hoped I would. Since I hadn't seen the theatrical version prior to this Hall, I was curious as to how well I would respond to it. I expected for it to be an easier watch than the Redux version, but what I wasn't expecting was for it to trump my own expectations. To get it out of the way, yes, the animal cruelty scenes (the water buffalo being killed and the rough handling of the dog) are hard to watch and indefensible, but other than that, this film is truly excellent and is quite possibly the best representation of a descent into madness I've ever seen. I've seen many critics argue that the journey to Kurtz's compound is a metaphorical descent into madness and that was what stood out the most to me while watching this film. The first stop with Lt. Col. Kilgore shows the first stage of this descent. On the surface, it's a fairly conventional raid scene (albeit one which is technically outstanding), but that Kilgore orders some soldiers to surf during the raid and expresses his gratitude towards a Vietnamese soldier who fought in spite of being seriously wounded adds an undercurrent of surrealism to to that sequence. The second stop where hundreds of soldiers watch a Playboy show at a supply depot shows the next stage of this descent. Many soldiers in that scene yell sexual remarks at the women and try to rush the stage, showing more of their unhinged behavior. The third main stop at a remote U.S. army outpost expands on this descent. Several soldiers seem desperate to get into their boat in an attempt to return home and the other soldiers in the outpost seem to have no idea who their commanding officer is. There doesn't seem to be much order in that outpost and the whole scene maintains a hellish atmosphere. And, of course, Kurtz's compound is the final stage of this descent. I love how his monologues in that scene feel simultaneously avant-garde and narrative-driven at the same time. Though Kurtz appears to be talking about great insights in his speeches, half of what he says doesn't make any sense. Topped with how his face is either partially or entirely obscured in darkness throughout those scenes makes them some of the best movie monologues I've ever seen. Topped with some excellent cinematography and some outstanding soundtrack choices (Ride of the Valkyries and The End), this film is definitely a top 10 war film for me. Thanks to jiraffejustin for nominating this one

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My full ballot:

1. The Travelling Players (N/A)
2. Come and See (#2)
3. Paths of Glory (#4)
4. The Bridge on the River Kwai (#3)
5. To Be or Not to Be (#41)
6. The Battle of Algiers (#24)
7. Apocalypse Now (#1)
8. The Best Years of Our Lives (#21)
9. From Here to Eternity (#30)
10. The Ascent (#33)
11. The Thin Red Line (#17)
12. Pan's Labyrinth (#54)
13. The General (#64)
14. Kanal (#61)
15. Red Angel (#100)
16. Underground (#43)
17. The Shop on Main Street (N/A)
18. This Land is Mine (N/A)
19. Barry Lyndon (#50)
20. Full Metal Jacket (#7)
21. The Fifth Seal (N/A)
22. Lawrence of Arabia (#5)
23. Johnny Got His Gun (#97)
24. Night and Fog (#48)
25. The Deer Hunter (#25)

Apocalypse Now was my #3. Come and See is excellent, but didn't make my ballot.

Seen 76/100

My ballot:

1. Gone with the Wind (1939)
2. Schindler's List (1993)
3. Apocalypse Now (1979)
4. Saving Private Ryan (1998)
5. The African Queen (1951)
6. The Thin Red Line (1998)
7. Braveheart (1995)
8. Hotel Rwanda (2004)
9. Downfall (2004)
10. The Imitation Game (2014)
11. Foreign Correspondent (1940)
12. Fail-Safe (1964)
13. Breaker Morant (1980)
14. Night and Fog (1956)
15. The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (1943)
16. The Great Dictator (1940)
17. Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964)
18. Lifeboat (1944)
19. The Tin Drum (1979)
20. Wings (1927)
21. Senso (1954)
22. The Four Feathers (1939)
23. Spartacus (1960)
24. Ran (1985)
25. Platoon (1986)

No argument with the top two--Come and See was my #1 and Apocalypse Now was my #5.

Thanks to Keyser for taking us through the trenches, Yoda for his behind-the-scenes machinations, and all voters for their ballots for bullets.

Here is my list in full:
1. Come and See (1985) #2
2. Casablanca (1942) #14
3. Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964) #6
4. The Battle of Algiers (1966) #24
5. Apocalypse Now (1979) #1
6. The Boat (1981) #9
7. Paths of Glory (1957) #4
8. All Quiet on the Western Front (1930) #10
9. Kanal (1957) #61
10. Lawrence of Arabia (1962) #5
11. The Bridge on the River Kwai (1957) #3
12. Ashes and Diamonds (1958) #98
13. Rome, Open City (1945) #37
14. Schindler's List (1993) #11
15. Army of Shadows (1969) #29
16. Pan's Labyrinth (2006) #54
17. From Here to Eternity (1953) #30
18. The Search (1948) DNP
19. Saboteur (1942) DNP
20. The Best Years of Our Lives (1946) #21
21. The General (1926) #64
22. The Great Dictator (1940) #22
23. Gone with the Wind (1939) #52
24. The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (1943) #46
25. The Birth of a Nation (1915) DNP

The Search is an underappreciated post-war drama starring the great Monty Clift; Saboteur is an underappreciated spy thriller directed by the great (if rather vile) Alfred Hitchcock; and The Birth of a Nation is an epic landmark, a technical leap forward that is in content utterly reprehensible--unfortunately, we cannot always arrange our cultural history the way we might like.

Come and See is just the type of hard hitting film I seek out. My #12

Seen Apocalypse Now many times. I don't love it's entirety, but it has moments that are awe inspiring. My #23

1. The Best Years of Our Lives (1946)
2. Jojo Rabbit (2019)
3. The Book Thief (2013)
4. To Be or Not To Be (1942)
5. Wings (1927)
6. Inglourious Basterds (2009)
7. Conspiracy (2001)
8. They Shall Not Grow Old (2018)
9. The General (1926)
10. Ran (1985)
11. 1917 (2019)
12. Paths of Glory (1957)
13. The Killing Fields (1984)
14. Grand Illusion (1937)
15. Apocalypse Now (1979)
16. Patton (1970)
17. The King's Man (2021)
18. Bridge of Spies (2015)
19. The Caine Mutiny (1954)
20. Darkest Hour (2017)
21. Hacksaw Ridge (2016)
22. Schindler's List (1993)
23. The Great Escape (1963)
24. The Diary of Anne Frank (1959)
25. Eye in the Sky (2015)

Anyways, thanks so much to Keyser for hosting this. You did an excellent job!

Have never seen Come and See but Apocalypse Now is my #1. I've loved this since I saw it at the cinema when first released. I was in awe of it then and still am. The dialogue, the cinematography, the acting, the music, everything just gels. It's not only one of my favorite war movies but one of my favorite movies, period. So glad it made the top spot.

Many thanks to all who made this a great countdown: Keyser, Yoda, Thief, Holden, and John Connor. One of my favorites.

#1 Apocalypse Now "Everyone gets everything he wants. I wanted a mission, and for my sins, they gave me one. Brought it up to me like room service. It was a real choice mission, and when it was over, I never wanted another." #1
#2 Platoon "Barnes been shot seven times and he ain't dead. Does that mean anything to you, huh? Barnes ain't meant to die. The only thing that can kill Barnes is Barnes." #16
#3 Paths of Glory "I can't believe that the noblest impulse for man - his compassion for another - can be completely dead here. Therefore, I humbly beg you... show mercy to these men." #4
#4 1917 "Look, its just a bit of bloody tin. It doesn't make you special. It doesn't make any difference to anyone." #31
#5 Saving Private Ryan "I just know that every man I kill the farther away from home I feel." #8
#6 Das Boot "They're drinking at the bar, celebrating our sinking! Not yet, my friends. Not yet!" #9
#7 The Longest Day "In this darkest hour, in the gloom of night, we must not despair. For each of us, deliverance is coming!" #36
#8 Hacksaw Ridge "Please Lord, help me get one more. Help me get one more." #67
#9 We Were Soliders "If any of you sons of bitches calls me grandpa, I'll kill you." #104 DNP
#10 The Hurt Locker "The rush of battle is often a potent and lethal addiction, for war is a drug."#58
#11 Full Metal Jacket "You best unf*** yourself or I will unscrew your head and s### down your NECK!" #7
#12 Dunkirk "Seeing home doesn't help us get there, Captain." #47
#13 American Sniper "The thing that... haunts me are all the guys that I couldn't save." #207 DNP
#14 The Bridge on the River Kwai "Madness! Madness!" #3
#15 Patton "Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!" #28
#16 Hamburger Hill "We've been up on that hill ten times, and they still don't think we're serious." #122 DNP
#17 The Best Years of Our Lives “I had a dream. I dreamt I was home. I've had that same dream hundreds of times before. This time, I wanted to find out if it's really true. Am I really home?” #21
#18 The Dirty Dozen "Killin' generals could get to be a habit with me." #32
#19 The Sand Pebbles " I was home. What happened? What the hell happened?" #263 DNP
#20 The Steel Helmet "First we'll eat; then we'll bury 'em," #255 DNP
#21 Tora! Tora! Tora! "It looks good on paper, but for God's sake... that's not a paper fleet sitting out there." #63
#22 Mister Roberts "Doc, you haven't heard a word I've said. Look, Doc, the war's way out there, and I'm here. Well, I don't want to be here, I wanna be out there. I'm sick and tired of being a lousy spectator." #220 DNP
#23 The Deer Hunter "Stanley, see this? This is this. This ain't something else. This is this. From now on, you're on your own." #25
#24 Pork Chop Hill " The value of Pork Chop is that it's worth nothing. The Chinese are using it to test our resolve." #167 DNP
#25 The Dawn Patrol "Man is a savage animal, who, periodically to relieve his nervous tension, tries to destroy himself." #285 DNP

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Glad Apocalypse Now was the forum’s top pick. Truly a great film which I can go more into later… it’s in my top 10 of all time and was my top pick for this countdown. Interesting that when I rewatched Apocalypse Now in its entirety for the first time in several years back in June, I thought Kurtz wasn’t crazy at all and he wasn’t wrong as to how to fight the war, meanwhile I really disliked the Kilgore character.

Great movie. Here’s my top 25 list:

1. Apocalypse Now (1979)
2. Chimes at Midnight (1965)
3. Lawrence of Arabia (1962)
4. Gone with the Wind (1939)
5. Paths of Glory (1957)
6. All Quiet on the Western Front (1930)
7. Sergeant York (1941)
8. The Bridge on the River Kwai (1957)
9. The Ascent (1977)
10. The Battle of Algiers (1966)
11. The Last of the Mohicans (1992)
12. Come and See (1985)
13. The Guns of Navarone (1961)
14. Ran (1985)
15. The Great Escape (1963)
16. Patton (1970)
17. Zulu (1964)
18. Downfall (2004)
19. The Pianist (2002)
20. From Here to Eternity (1953)
21. The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (1943)
22. A Very Long Engagement (2004)
23. Germany Year Zero (1948)
24. '71 (2014)
25. Black Hawk Down (2001)

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2. Come and See - The Russians' experience of World War II was different to the French one, or the Italian, or English, American, Scandinavian or Greek. The Russians were shot, burned, drowned, suffocated, blown up, gassed, frozen and starved - women and children. Boys and girls - babies, grandparents, invalids and innocents. One of the Einsatzgruppen's favourite tactics was to enter a village, and to punish partisans and resistance fighters in the area, herd the entire population into a barn or town hall, and set fire to it - burning all those inside, which would usually be everyone. 1977 memoir I Am from the Fiery Village, written by Ales Adamovich, Janka Bryl and Uladzimir Kalesnik, tells the tale of one of those events. Elem Klimov's Come and See incorporates it into the story of a young boy - a partisan - who undergoes a transformation by witnessing the brutality surrounding him. Surrounded by death this now lonely lost soul becomes obsessed with completely snuffing out what he seems to feel is an Antichrist figure amongst all of this - Adolf Hitler. Klimov originally wanted to call this film Kill Hitler - but as a whole his film feels bigger in scope, and includes all war. It's spiritual death, obscenity, pain, existence and innocence. Instead he chose a Biblical quote - which suits the scope of Come and See much better. The convincing ugliness makes this unforgettable because it's one of the only war films to feel so putrid and stinking. War can only be stopped and killed at it's source, and Come and See convinces us that it must be. Every other war film I can think of, aside from The Ascent maybe, feels so much less rotten than Come and See, and that's why it's my #1.

1. Apocalypse Now - When main character Willard (Martin Sheen) finally tracks down Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now, the latter asks him, "Are my methods unsound?" Willard answers back "I don't see any method at all, sir." I love that line - to me it seems to be about the Vietnam War as a whole. Francis Ford Coppola made his film tell us that the Vietnam War, and more specifically it's conduct, had the feeling of insanity run amok. The deeper Willard goes down his river in this version of Hearts of Darkness the crazier everything gets, and the closer he gets to the central truth of this - that there's no logic to any of this at all. Every scene in Apocalypse Now punctuates that feeling of out of control lunacy. I can't say with any precision what we're taught about the dark inner working of man's soul, except that it is indeed so dark you'd have to be mad to want to go there. Once there, reason seems to be in short supply. It's a fairly unpretentious yet serious look at young people who must go to that place. It's a film I appreciate more and more as time goes by and just for the record I'm in the minority in liking the Redux version more than the original - I think the French plantation section adds something to Apocalypse Now. Anyway, it had to be on my list of course, I had it at #22.

So, after a really slow start I ended up with 23/25 films from my list showing up. A record! I don't aim for that actually - I'd like more films on my list that are less mainstream and more interesting and obscure, but I just go for the ones I like the best. Great countdown everyone and thanks to KeyserCorleone! After a wobbly start you came through with flying colours!

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Seen : 78/100
I'd never even heard of :12/100
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 10/100
Films from my list : 23

#1 - My #22 - Apocalypse Now (1979)
#2 - My #1 - Come and See (1985)
#3 - My #13 - The Bridge on the River Kwai (1957)
#4 - My #5 - Paths of Glory (1957)
#7 - My #18 - Full Metal Jacket (1987)
#8 - My #10 - Saving Private Ryan (1998)
#9 - My #6 - Das Boot (1981)
#10 - My #8 - All Quiet on the Western Front (1930)
#11 - My #3 - Schindler's List (1993)
#12 - My #9 - Grave of the Fireflies (1988)
#13 - My #12 - Downfall (2004)
#15 - My #21 - Inglourious Basterds (2009)
#17 - My #11 - The Thin Red Line (1998)
#20 - My #17 - The Cranes Are Flying (1957)
#27 - My #15 - The Human Condition I: No Greater Love (1959)
#31 - My #20 - 1917 (2019)
#33 - My #2 - The Ascent (1977)
#34 - My #4 - The Human Condition III: A Soldier's Prayer (1961)
#38 - My #23 - Glory (1989)
#49 - My #24 - The Guns of Navarone (1961)
#51 - My #7 - The Human Condition II : Road to Eternity (1959)
#70 - My #14 - The Caine Mutiny (1954)
#74 - My #16 - Shoah (1985)

Overlooked films : Breaker Morant, Fail-Safe, Night and Fog, Casablanca, The Travelling Players, Threads

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Like I said earlier, I didn't vote, but fully agree with #1. Had I managed to make a ballot, it would have been in my top 3 (possibly even at the very top).

The films that didn't make the list but would have been on my ballot are, at least, Cross of Iron, J'accuse, The Painted Bird, The Captain and The Winter War.

Congrats to all the brave soldiers who voted while I was conscientiously objecting.

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Just to prove I'm not just Mr. Mainstream, here are 25 war films that I really like, and would have liked to have seen on this countdown :

1/ The Traveling Players (1975) - should really have had on my list
2/ Threads (1984) - should really have had on my list
3/ Soldier Blue (1970) - should really have had on my list
4/ The Big Red One (1980)
5/ Valkyrie (2008)
6/ Hell in the Pacific (1968)
7/ The Captain (2017)
8/ 13 Minutes (2015)
9/ Germany Year Zero (1948)
10/ The Secret of Santa Vittoria (1969)
11/ Fury (2014)
12/ The Inglorious Bastards (1978)
13/ Stalingrad (1993)
14/ Battle For Haditha (2007)
15/ The Men Who Stare at Goats (2009)
16/ Taps (1981)
17/ What Price Glory? (1952)
18/ The Wild Geese (1978)
19/ Incendies (2010)
20/ Lone Survivor (2013)
21/ The Night of the Generals (1967)
22/ Hell is For Heroes (1962)
23/ Thirteen Days (2000)
24/ The Russians Are Coming! The Russians Are Coming! (1966)
25/ The Aftermath (2019)

And Cross of Iron (1977) - damn

Aww - same one-pointer!

Thanks KC for hosting. I think this countdown matches quite alot of my 25. Come and See is one of my favourite films of all time. It's unreal. Apoc Now also high on my all time list. Both magical films that came close to not being made, such is their magnitude in terms of cinematic accomplishment.

My list:

Excellent write up on Come and See explaining why it has so much power, and why it deserved the #2 spot. I figured it had a good chance at top ten. Good analysis of Apocalypse as well.

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I may go back to hating you. It was more fun.

Last countdown there was some tool Yoda came up with for people to list our their ballots. Do we have it again this time?

Watched The Hill last night, very good but wouldn’t have made my ballot. That puts me at 93 watched, with at least one more lined up to watch this month.

Thanks Keyser and Yoda. These are always a good time and I look forward to the next. I may even throw my hat in to finally host if the list appeals.

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I had both on my ballot as well, in my Top Ten. Both are stylized, sometimes surreal portraits of the horrors of war. Apocalypse Now is a hypnotic cinematic carnival ride while Come & See is the most brutal of nightmares. In addition to all of Apocalypse Now's strengths, like Citizen Kane its esteem is also elevated by its backstory, which is just as compelling as the finished flick. Whatever one's initial impressions of Coppola's film, once you see the documentary Hearts of Darkness: A Filmmaker's Apocalypse (as I imagine most of us who voted for it have), one can't help but marvel that much more at the accomplishment. As for the original cut versus Redux I fall for the original. The additional footage is fascinating in and of itself, but I think the narrative is better without it. For example, the French Plantation scene makes perfect sense and I am so glad I could see it in the documentary, but once it was inserted into Redux it does grind things to a halt and ultimately isn't necessary.

I had about forty titles on my shortlist, before I whiddled it down to twenty-five. The ones that made the collective were Das Boot, Glory, Stalag 17, The Best Years of Our Lives, and Kingdom of Heaven. The titles that did not make the collective were The Americanization of Emily, King of Hearts, The Steel Helmet, Hope & Glory, The Counterfeiters, Sophie Scholl: The Final Days, Hamburger Hill, and The Sand Pebbles. And I initially had a title on my ballot that was rejected after I turned it in as not qualifying as a War Movie. Because the IMDb didn’t list is as such. That was Neil Simon’s Biloxi Blues. You know, the movie about WWII Army recruits going through Basic Training before being sent to the front. Clearly, not a War movie. I put Coming Home in its place.

I wound up with twenty of mine making the cut.

HOLDEN'S BALLOT
1. The Thin Red Line (#17)
2. Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to
2. Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (#6)
3. Lawrence of Arabia (#5)
4. Casablanca (#14)
5. Paths of Glory (#4)
6. Apocalypse Now (#1)
7. Fires on the Plain (#59)
8. Come & See (#2)
9. Army of Shadows (#29)
10. Waltz with Bashir (#45)
11. The Pianist (#23)
12. The Bridge on the River Kwai (#3)
13. Full Metal Jacket (#7)
14. MASH (#39)
15. Rome, Open City (#37)
16. Letters from Iwo Jima (#60)
17. The Battle of Algiers (#24)
18. The Great Escape (#19)
19. The Ascent (#33)
20. The Big Red One (DNP)
21. The Killing Fields (#69)
22. Catch-22 (DNP)
23. Joyeux Noël (DNP)
24. Coming Home (DNP)
25. The Wind That Shakes the Barley (DNP)

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