Dune 3 (Dune Messiah)

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While the studio has yet to make a formal announcement, there can be little doubt that WB is not going to waste the opportunity to release a 3rd Dune movie, given the huge success that Dune 2 has turned out to be.

What we do know so far is that Denis Villeneuve has gone on the record as saying he would be up for directing one more movie - so long as it isn't his very next project. He's said to be nearly finished with the script.

DV he has also said he would not want to make more than 3 movies in total for this franchise. (WB would no doubt look for a way to continue turning more of Frank Herbert's books into movies, albeit with different directors).

Speculation is already leading to articles such as this, which suggests the 3rd movie in the saga may not be as cinematic as Dune 2:


Fans of Frank Herbert’s Dune saga agree: The first book is extraordinary — a planet-hopping hero’s journey with compelling characters, riveting action set-pieces, and clear story and character arcs. For all the talk that Dune was impossible to adapt, the core elements to make great cinema have always been in the 1965 book.

But Herbert’s other Dune books? Well …

The remaining books have their fans and detractors, but the general consensus is the saga never comes close to achieving the dramatic heights of the first novel. Dune director Denis Villeneuve himself has said the books become increasingly “esoteric” and therefore he only wants to adapt the next one, Dune Messiah. He is said to be nearly finished with a script for a potential Dune: Part Three. But Messiah is has plenty of challenges, too.

It’s not that 1969’s Dune Messiah is bad, per se. Plenty of Herbert devotees love it, especially those who enjoy politics and philosophical discussion (its Amazon review average is only slightly behind the first book). It’s just not as overtly dramatic and doesn’t directly connect to previous story as much as one might like. As one reviewer griped, Messiah is “a lot of sitting around and talking.” This isn’t necessarily bad, it’s just not what the first two movies were.

Without giving away any real spoilers, Messiah picks up after a 12-year time jump and is focused on Paul Atreides (Timothée Chalamet) ruling as Emperor, and his relationship with his wife, Princess Irulan (Florence Pugh), and concubine, Chani (Zendaya). The violent jihad Paul envisioned and feared that he would inspire throughout the first two films has come and gone. Now, Paul is struggling to deal with a conspiracy to overthrow him while hoping to produce an heir. The book is largely focused on palace intrigue and feels more like TV-sized Dune than movie-sized Dune. Paul’s mother, the Lady Jessica (Rebecca Ferguson) isn’t in Messiah (something that’s difficult to imagine Villeneuve not changing), and the story lacks obvious villains like the Harkonnens to drive the narrative. While Dune is an underdog epic, Messiah is Paul striving to keep his house in order and wrestling with his status and legacy as a god-like being.

Thus far, Villeneuve has been exceedingly faithful to his source material (his approach to Dune’s adaption was about finding character and story essentials and cutting out the rest, rather than making significant changes). But Messiah presents an interesting creative dilemma: The more faithful the adaptation, the less likely the result will be compelling onscreen, and the less comparable the film will feel with the first two parts.

This isn’t to predict Dune 3 will definitely be weaker or radically different. There’s so much filmmaking and storytelling skill on display in the first two films, and plenty of chess pieces remain on the table, so Villeneuve will likely make a film that works (and will certainly be worth seeing regardless). But Villeneuve and his co-writers arguably need to show a level of adaptive flexibility and creativity beyond what they have done so far in order to elevate Messiah to a place where it feels like a Return of the King rather than a Godfather Part III (a comparison that’s actually pretty apt given the third Godfather film’s time jump and its heavy-lies-the-crown storyline). The very end of Part Two hints at potentially promising deviation from the books, showing a betrayed-looking Chani abandoning Paul’s army, setting up a potentially more antagonistic relationship between the lovers in Part Three.

In any case, Villeneuve has said Messiah would be his final Dune film. “If I succeed in making a trilogy, that would be the dream,” Villeneuve has said. “Dune Messiah was written in reaction to the fact that people perceived Paul Atreides as a hero. Which is not what he wanted to do. My adaptation is closer to his idea that it’s actually a warning.”



“Oh great! Real Bullets!”
I've not read the books or even seen Part 2 yet, but is it likely Jason Momoa will return for this one?



I've not read the books or even seen Part 2 yet, but is it likely Jason Momoa will return for this one?
Definitely not, unless they had flashbacks to the events of Part One (where his character died)



“Oh great! Real Bullets!”
Definitely not, unless they had flashbacks to the events of Part One (where his character died)
If you don’t mind spoilers I suggest taking a look at Duncan Idaho at wikipedia or a Dune wiki.

I’ve not read the books but it looks intriguing.



If you don’t mind spoilers I suggest taking a look at Duncan Idaho at wikipedia or a Dune wiki.
If you don't mind spoilers, I suggest you consider DV isn't married to the story in the books.



Definitely not, unless they had flashbacks to the events of Part One (where his character died)
This is false. Duncan Idaho is cloned in the books to be resurrected after his death. It is very possible that we see him again in Dune: Messiah.



Duncan Idaho is cloned in the books to be resurrected after his death. It is very possible that we see him again in Dune: Messiah.
There's really no guarantee that DV will follow the books to the letter.



The trick is not minding
There's really no guarantee that DV will follow the books to the letter.
While this is true, I find more likely they will follow the book, if for no other reason than to being back a fan favorite actor, assuming he wants to reprise the role.
It’s also, apparently, a fairly important plot point in the book, so I would imagine they would include it for that as well.



While this is true, I find more likely they will follow the book, if for no other reason than to being back a fan favorite actor, assuming he wants to reprise the role.
It’s also, apparently, a fairly important plot point in the book, so I would imagine they would include it for that as well.
They don't have to have the exact same character, though. A lot of parts are recast due to the availability of actors, so it remains to be seen: a) when does this start filming? (won't be anytime soon) and b) which actors might be available at that point in time?



The trick is not minding
They don't have to have the exact same character, though. A lot of parts are recast due to the availability of actors, so it remains to be seen: a) when does this start filming? (won't be anytime soon) and b) which actors might be available at that point in time?
Right, which I already addressed with the “if he wants to reprise the role” part. And besides the point, which was “will Duncan return” and not “if he returns, will it be Momoa?” *
For what it’s worth, DV has been very faithful to the book, so far, so I imagine it’s more likely then not he brings back Duncan.
We really can’t say definitely not.



For what it’s worth, DV has been very faithful to the book, so far
He has been somewhat faithful to the first book, sure, but the article I posted explained in a very detailed way why this is unlikely to be true when adapting Dune Messiah.



The trick is not minding
He has been somewhat faithful to the first book, sure, but the article I posted explained in a very detailed way why this is unlikely to be true when adapting Dune Messiah.
Right, I read that as well, but that doesn’t imply that Duncan’s return will be dropped, as the point of the article was about the plot lacking anything similar to action, and more along the lines of it being more political and philosophical.



but that doesn’t imply that Duncan’s return will be dropped
And when did I say it implied as much? I didn't.



The trick is not minding
And when did I say it implied as much? I didn't.
Eh, actually, you did when you cited the article referring to changes may need to be made in defense of whether Duncan would return, as written in the book.



Eh, actually, you did when you cited the article referring to changes may need to be made in defense of whether Duncan would return, as written in the book.
That is absolutely not what I said. Go back and re-read that post, you're obviously inferring something from that post that I definitely didn't say, or even imply.

All I've said is that we just don't know. And we don't. We don't know anything about Dune 3 with complete certainty.



The trick is not minding
That is absolutely not what I said. Go back and re-read that post, you're obviously inferring something from that post that I definitely didn't say, or even imply.

All I've said is that we just don't know. And we don't. We don't know anything about Dune 3 with complete certainty.
Actually, your exact words were “definitely not”. Which was what we were responding to mostly.
And yes, there was an implication from your posts that he wouldn’t appear, but it really isn’t worth debating over, regardless.



And yes, there was an implication from your posts that he wouldn’t appear
Good heavens, all I've said is that it is definitely not guaranteed that Jason Momoa will come back and play the role again.

That's it. That's all I said.

Look, I think anyone looking at this objectively would immediately see that there are reasons why DV might think twice about doing this part of the story exactly like in the book. For one thing, the whole 'that character definitely died, but we brought him back anyway' is probably not a particularly fresh idea any more, especially not after Palpatine being brought back in the last Star Wars movie.

So there's definitely reasons to think DV might want to think, at the very least, about not following the book exactly when it comes to that. I'm not saying he definitely will change it, just that he might think twice about doing that story element exactly like in the book.

Or, he might just want to have a character say, "Somehow, Duncan Idaho returned".



The trick is not minding
Good heavens, all I've said is that it is definitely not guaranteed that Jason Momoa will come back and play the role again.

That's it. That's all I said.

Look, I think anyone looking at this objectively would immediately see that there are reasons why DV might think twice about doing this part of the story exactly like in the book. For one thing, the whole 'that character definitely died, but we brought him back anyway' is probably not a particularly fresh idea any more, especially not after Palpatine being brought back in the last Star Wars movie.

So there's definitely reasons to think DV might want to think, at the very least, about not following the book exactly when it comes to that. I'm not saying he definitely will change it, just that he might think twice about doing that story element exactly like in the book.

Or, he might just want to have a character say, "Somehow, Duncan Idaho returned".
Right, and we also gave reasonable reasons why we felt the character could return. You have good reasons why he might not, and we responded, with what I felt were also good reasons but was also a good discussion.
I don’t think we need to get hung up in semantics, considering how well the discussion was before, correct?



I actually think DV might well consider bringing back Paul's dad instead.