God Returns to MoFo! ~ Why You Should Believe in God
Originally Posted by TheUsualSuspect
Prove me wrong.
Originally Posted by Zotis
There is a difference between him wanting to have discussions about the subject with the community, and him not wanting to get into a pointless hypathetical reduntant argument with you specifically that will just end with you coping out at the debate's apex.
There's nothing pointless or redundant about bringing the subject of answers into question. If his belief depends on answers then it presupposes a unique value in the answers to those particular questions. I'm asking why that is.
Perhaps you can answer?
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The short answer would be that the desire for truth and understanding the meaning of one's existence leads people to ask all kinds of questions in the hope of gaining deeper insight and closure.
What would you do if you suddenly awoke in a strange room surrounded by strangers who also awoke in the same way? If you just do whatever you want, or nothing at all, and don't take the situation seriously and scoff at other people's ideas, you might end up dead pretty quickly.
What would you do if you suddenly awoke in a strange room surrounded by strangers who also awoke in the same way? If you just do whatever you want, or nothing at all, and don't take the situation seriously and scoff at other people's ideas, you might end up dead pretty quickly.
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Asking questions is how you learn, and just because you can't know everything doesn't mean you can't know enough.
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I was baptised when I was a baby. Growing up I went to a christian school, and then a catholic school where half the teachers were nuns. After a year of being in the catholic school I became the first student, at the age of 11, to not be required to go to religion class. The Nun said I believed in God, but was too obstinate against "catholic" interpretation. One instance the Sister said Mary never sinned, and I said "Thats baloney!", and man that nun was red faced pissed. So for the next few years I had a study hour in the principals office, and decided to read the bible on my own.
Then in my early twenties I was getting married. To get married me and the ex went to the ministers home or office to talk God, and then I got "born again" and rebaptised. I tried to be what I thought was a good christian, listen to christian music, stay away from certain elements, but the Ned Flanders formula and me dont mix. I used to pray every night, but havent now for years.
So does this mean I no longer believe in God? I think it more realistic that I tried and it just wasnt meant to be. Im not some self absorbed ass to think because I failed at something means that something never was. Do I think this country or the world would benefit from christianity. Absolutely, as evolved as weve become in technology and science, weve deteriorated spiritually.
Theres almost 1,500 versions of christianity, and the Bible says theres "one true church". Now ministers, preacher, rabbis and whatever will say its their church...........its actually all of them, but not everyone is in that "one true church". Basically its not the church, its the person. Its not the churches faith, its the persons faith. The "one true church" is in heaven where it even says in the bible Jesus is the high priest. He'll take who he wants, and not be hindered by church politics. I still encourage others to seek out faith, and would want my children to go to church too.
Why should you believe in God? I guess a non-believer thinks it a spell like brainwash that makes people euphoric or addled. A childrens story. Well, the Bible predicted that two thousand years ago. I encourage anyone if they are seriously interested in "God" to find a church you feel comfortable in and talk with a minister. Its not like youre gonna be turned into a frog!
Then in my early twenties I was getting married. To get married me and the ex went to the ministers home or office to talk God, and then I got "born again" and rebaptised. I tried to be what I thought was a good christian, listen to christian music, stay away from certain elements, but the Ned Flanders formula and me dont mix. I used to pray every night, but havent now for years.
So does this mean I no longer believe in God? I think it more realistic that I tried and it just wasnt meant to be. Im not some self absorbed ass to think because I failed at something means that something never was. Do I think this country or the world would benefit from christianity. Absolutely, as evolved as weve become in technology and science, weve deteriorated spiritually.
Theres almost 1,500 versions of christianity, and the Bible says theres "one true church". Now ministers, preacher, rabbis and whatever will say its their church...........its actually all of them, but not everyone is in that "one true church". Basically its not the church, its the person. Its not the churches faith, its the persons faith. The "one true church" is in heaven where it even says in the bible Jesus is the high priest. He'll take who he wants, and not be hindered by church politics. I still encourage others to seek out faith, and would want my children to go to church too.
Why should you believe in God? I guess a non-believer thinks it a spell like brainwash that makes people euphoric or addled. A childrens story. Well, the Bible predicted that two thousand years ago. I encourage anyone if they are seriously interested in "God" to find a church you feel comfortable in and talk with a minister. Its not like youre gonna be turned into a frog!
oh wow,thats fascinating Tongo! did you have to be that way for the priest to marry you,or to be with your then wife,or did you actually believe at the time?
never seen a nun in my life
never seen a nun in my life
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oh wow,thats fascinating Tongo! did you have to be that way for the priest to marry you,or to be with your then wife,or did you actually believe at the time?
never seen a nun in my life
never seen a nun in my life
There is so-much-judgement in our own minds. How someones judged in this conversation, at work, your family, church, or wherever. The most unwise thing one can do is base their faith off someone elses faith or behavior. All men can break, all men can fall, all men are flawed. The truth is there is alot to be learned, and if someone would not go to a church to learn, but are still curious....I suggest reading the Bible. Read 2 pages a day. If that person isnt affected in some capacity, then I would be truly surprised.
I usually avoid these type of threads, as interesting as they are, as they usually turn into a pissin' match. But this thread has been civil, which is nice for a change Kudos to Rodent and Sean for discussing in a nice way their different beliefs. It was good to read a friendly exchange of ideas...and that's the only way people learn from each other.
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There is a difference between him wanting to have discussions about the subject with the community, and him not wanting to get into a pointless hypothetical redundant argument with you specifically that will just end with you coping out at the debate's apex.
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Why are people acting like this thread is so scary?
I'd like to remind people of that before they pop in to offer some glib here's-my-two-cents dismissal, too, which usually happens a lot in threads like this (and has already happened a couple of times here).
State what you believe, argue for it, whatever. That's everyone's right. But if you're confidently dismissing any major side of a subject the smartest people in history have argued about, the only thing that really tells us is that you haven't thought about this seriously.
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I've attended a few Churches
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“By definition, you have to live until you die. Better to make that life as complete and enjoyable an experience as possible, in case death is shite, which I suspect it will be.”
“By definition, you have to live until you die. Better to make that life as complete and enjoyable an experience as possible, in case death is shite, which I suspect it will be.”
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Sorry... I tried to answer your question of where I stand on Christianity not needing works from the believer and went into a side branch of the contradictions of organised religion.
If Christianity doesn't need constant "Hey God! Hey God! I love you" then fair enough, go for it. Makes no difference to me... but the point I was trying to make in the tangent I made, is why is that the case when before now you did have to do that?
Whatever religious text you read, the books say "God's Will is X... but Y and Z are wrong." and a few years later, Y and Z are fine.
Christianity today, is different than years ago. Why? Why, and how, can a religion, any religion, change it's standpoint?
If the belief is "X"... and not Y or Z... then the belief should be "X", and not change to Y or Z no matter what or who says it's fine now.
In these terms, all organised religion is a joke.
If Christianity doesn't need constant "Hey God! Hey God! I love you" then fair enough, go for it. Makes no difference to me... but the point I was trying to make in the tangent I made, is why is that the case when before now you did have to do that?
Whatever religious text you read, the books say "God's Will is X... but Y and Z are wrong." and a few years later, Y and Z are fine.
Christianity today, is different than years ago. Why? Why, and how, can a religion, any religion, change it's standpoint?
If the belief is "X"... and not Y or Z... then the belief should be "X", and not change to Y or Z no matter what or who says it's fine now.
In these terms, all organised religion is a joke.
The problem as I see it with people for the outside looking in on Christianity is they become obsessed with what they see as rules and regulations for entrance into the club. God's moral laws are set forth for our benefit. They are not stipulations on salvation. Jesus saved us the job is done. We only need admit we are flawed and try to press in to God. This isn't a hard concept for most unbelievers to understand. Start talking to anyone about spirituality, you normally get the I don't believe in Santa Clause or Unicorns standard response. Then they will begin to talk about trying to help others. They will talk about being peaceful, about being respectful to those around them. Christian principles are universal. We may disagree about what gets us to the place of selflessness, but most of us agree that the more selfless we become the better off we are. God's moral laws are our guide to get to that place, but none of that is a requirement. When you believe and try to press in on that belief, you will naturally try to become as much like Christ as possible. The truth is, that most of the "rules" that unbelievers focus on are the bottom of the rung for Christians. When you try to pursue a life of selflessness you begin to see how truly selfish we are. The pursuit is the thing, but the pursuit must never be mistaken for an obligation. God is uninterested in works if they are done out of a sense of obligation. He is only interested us becoming selfless in our love for others becoming a part of our nature. It is impossible to be sure but it becomes our true desire the closer we get to God. Hope this makes at least a little bit of sense. It is a hard thing for me to write about. I am passionate about it because the most frustrating thing as a Christian for me is when people talk about my faith as if it is a list of obligations. One of the big problems with the church in our culture is that we present a lifestyle before we present Christ. It should work the other way around. If we presented complete acceptance the lifestyle becomes a natural progression for the believer. If you read Matthew 5:17 through the end of the chapter you can see Christ talking about this very thing. The Pharisees were obsessed with obeying the laws from a physical stand point. Christ was beginning to try and show them that the law is meant to be fulfilled in a spiritual sense. That hating another is the equivalent of killing them. This sounds like nonsense to the physical mind, but we are called to a place of spiritual enlightenment.
Anyway, I got to stop. I could go on forever and I am sure half the site has me on block if they read even a little bit of this.
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I was baptised when I was a baby. Growing up I went to a christian school, and then a catholic school where half the teachers were nuns. After a year of being in the catholic school I became the first student, at the age of 11, to not be required to go to religion class. The Nun said I believed in God, but was too obstinate against "catholic" interpretation. One instance the Sister said Mary never sinned, and I said "Thats baloney!", and man that nun was red faced pissed. So for the next few years I had a study hour in the principals office, and decided to read the bible on my own.
I must say -- the fact that you were brought up around nuns -- this makes sense to me for some reason.
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Are you just like Robin Williams in The World According to Garp? Didn't he go to a Catholic school or something like that?
I must say -- the fact that you were brought up around nuns -- this makes sense to me for some reason.
I must say -- the fact that you were brought up around nuns -- this makes sense to me for some reason.
No Im not T.S. Garp and my life doesnt have anything in common with his, though I always did want to fly.
Are we talking about the old gods or the new?
There is only one god, Death, and what do we say to death?
Not today.
There is only one god, Death, and what do we say to death?
Not today.
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Originally Posted by Zotis
First off, let me just say that I wasn't trying to insult you. But SC said he didn't want to get into it with you.
Originally Posted by Zotis
I don't know how much time and energy you usually devote to that sort of thing, but for me it could take an hour or two.
Originally Posted by Zotis
It's only worth it if you're being genuine, but if you're playing devil's advocate I'd rather you tell me before I waste an hour.
Originally Posted by Zotis
The short answer would be that the desire for truth and understanding the meaning of one's existence leads people to ask all kinds of questions in the hope of gaining deeper insight and closure.
I ask because children are raised into occupying themselves with hobbies and interests and find value in family and friends long before they can ever truly conceptualize something as vast as grand plans or the meaning of their existence.
Originally Posted by Zotis
What would you do if you suddenly awoke in a strange room surrounded by strangers who also awoke in the same way? If you just do whatever you want, or nothing at all, and don't take the situation seriously and scoff at other people's ideas, you might end up dead pretty quickly.
Or are you suggesting that you're not being serious unless you subscribe to someone else's uninformed ideas?
Originally Posted by Sexy Celebrity
You know, I think that's why the Saw movies were so popular.
Originally Posted by Sexy Celebrity
Anyway -- I don't think we'll be getting any concrete answers about what exactly is going on, why we're truly here, etc. I do understand the uncertainty. But a lot of people do fill their lives with their own answers, and for many, I think that can be very enriching. They may not be right, but they believe they are.
Originally Posted by Sexy Celebrity
Why are people acting like this thread is so scary?
Originally Posted by Sexy Celebrity
Right. And Omnizoa will definitely take you to that apex.
Are you sure you don't just get burnt out on arguments?
Originally Posted by Yoda
if you're confidently dismissing any major side of a subject the smartest people in history have argued about, the only thing that really tells us is that you haven't thought about this seriously.
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A question for believers who'd care to answer it:
Is the Bible the divine word of God?
(it's not a gotcha or a trap. I'm just interested)
Is the Bible the divine word of God?
(it's not a gotcha or a trap. I'm just interested)
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Originally Posted by Omnizoa
Well, Zotis is here and it's clearly dominated by theists at the moment.
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I almost titled this thread The Theists vs. Atheists Tournament.
When you think about it, this is kind of a funny way to put it because one theist can have entirely different views and a totally separate deity than another theist.
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A question for believers who'd care to answer it:
Is the Bible the divine word of God?
(it's not a gotcha or a trap. I'm just interested)
Is the Bible the divine word of God?
(it's not a gotcha or a trap. I'm just interested)
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