SPOILER THREAD: Discuss "Star Wars: The Force Awakens"

30 years on and the bad guys really have learned nothing. Not only does Kylo Ren want to be Vader Mk II, with Snoke as an Emperor substitute (why was he so big? I suspect in reality he's tiny), they build what is basically a bigger Death Star and keep the same basic "one shot in the wrong place and the whole thing blows up" flaw.

Interesting theory about Snoke really being tiny. I bet you're right.

In fairness, they still had a shield that was repellent enough that it had to be deactivated manually from inside the base (which is a step up from Jedi's whole "shield generator housed on a nearby moon" aspect, though that is arguably justified by Death Star 2 being unfinished at the time of Jedi - even so, if the plot was to trap the Rebels then why give the generator's real location in the first place?).

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I wasn't a fan of Poe. The acting was lousy.

yes I know he was Andy Serkis but damn he looked like a deformed Golem from LOTR

What I'm most curious about in this movie... and what might actually seem the most off about everything.... and what might be my biggest criticism.....

How the Hell did sh*t get so bad between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens?!

I mean, I know it's been 32 years.... but DAMN. After EVERYTHING they went through to defeat the Dark Side in Return of the Jedi... it's risen to a level that looks WORSE than before. I mean, it's just... Kylo Ren may be weaker than Darth Vader, but everything else is so massively evil.

HOW did all that sh*t come to be? How did they build up this whole evil army in all that time? You know, at least in The Phantom Menace... I don't remember things being so evil. They took a breather. This movie doesn't have a breather. Everything's just so massively corrupt already. I find it a little hard to believe, to be honest. That, to me, seems like the most cheap and ridiculous aspect of the film. The fact that the Dark Side is already so massively rebuilt.

you do realize that "A New Hope" is part 4, "Empire Strikes Back" is part 5, "Return of the Jedi" is part 6... then they did "The Phantom Menace" as part 1, "Attack of the Clones" is part 2, "Revenge of the Sith" is part 3.. then "The Force Awakens" is part 7.

and the years between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakes is what about 25 to 30 years....

Sh*t can do dark in that time.

Think like the French Revolution, or the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, or any real life historical political overthrow that wasn't the American Revolution. Yeah the monarchy of France was overthrown, but what happened after? A giant power vacuum that was filled by ostensibly worse regimes, in a different form, in the reign of terror and the rise of Napoleon as his dictatorship had taken hold over France from the power vacuum that happened after the original regime was defeated. Political overthrows for the most part don't end well the first time around.

Now we come to the Empire in Star Wars. When the Emperor was killed on the second Death Star, maybe the empire was defeated and in disarray, but who's to say in the massive galactic power vacuum that resulted that the First Order, like Napoleon's regime in France, would not have been able to reassemble many of the Empire's resources and take control of the galaxy throwing it back into darkness? Just because the Emperor was defeated, doesn't mean the Dark Side is gone forever, it will return, and this time it returns in the form of Snoke and the first order and Kylo Ren.

The eternal struggle of light and dark, of good and evil, is a central motif in the mythos of Star Wars, and in fiction at large. It's core to the universe of Star Wars, so it seems only natural that Darkness rose again. And as a natural response to the revival of the darkness, the light continues to fight to keep it at bay, this time in the form of the resistance. And this time, the light side reawakens as well, in the form of Rey (conveniently named, ahem, 'ray of light'), and that's the point of the entire story. The continuation of the eternal battle of light and dark, as history repeats itself and we see yet again that someone will rise to face this darkness, a reluctant yet brave heroine (Rey) taken from her former life aided by courageous allies (The resistance, specifically Finn) and a wise mentor (presumably Luke in the sequels) and thrust to the forefront of this battle where she will ultimately triumph and grow as a result of this journey. It's storytelling, it's the hero's journey, that is the point of all this. That is Star Wars.

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I didn't really like him at first, either. However, there's not much of him.

It could have used a better introduction and buildup. It was like too much was implied. I would have preferred if they had taken a step back, shown us a stable Republic, and then had the Empire return as the catalyst. Instead they sort of skipped that and went straight to the Republic being in dire straights, and that feeling like being the general state of things.

I thought it was addressed in the opening crawl

Maybe they didn't show it, but seeing as they had 30 years of history to cover in 2 hours and 15 minutes some things were going to have to just be told to you. They establish that the first order has risen. The story of it rising isn't pertinent to the story being told. It's here and it's an immediate threat. It would have muddled the plot and bogged down the narrative push of the story of the movie (which revolves around the search for luke while getting caught up in the political/military circumstances that set the stage for this search) to spend much more time on it, given the fast-paced style they were going for. That's the point of the opening crawl. We never got to see the empire rise in A New Hope, and we don't see it here. If you don't agree with that decision and would have prefered more set up than just the crawl you're more than allowed to feel that way and I totally see where you're coming from, but I thought it worked fine by just setting it up in the crawl.

I thought the opening crawl was a bit weak.

how so? I thought it was fine, one of the better opening crawls in the series.

Also it probably seems like I'm fanboying about the movie or whatever but I'm not like the movie isn't perfect but I did really enjoy it as one of my favorite theater experiences ever one of my favorite movies of the year, but it's not flawless. Maz having Luke's lightsaber didn't make any sense and they even acknowledge that it doesn't but still that was one of the more glaring issues. I do still think it was a great film but I'm rational about it it wasn't as good as Empire or New Hope but it was good so I'm just providing my thoughts sorry if it seems like I'm just lauding the film for the sake of lauding it that's not what I mean to do but still there's a lot of good to say about it in my opinion.

Just saw this movie again, not because I wanted to though, some people I was working with wanted to go see it. Warning: this movie doesn't hold up well on a re-watch. I guess it has to do with not seeing it in IMAX the second time, but that's hardly the main reason. Once you know all the fangasm moments and crucial plot points the movie becomes helplessly mediocre. In my opinion this is because Star Wars: The Force Awakens is a string of cool moments, instead of the films in the original trilogy, which were an amazing experience as a whole. Entertainment-wise, still a good film.

The problem is Kylo Ren. Every time I think about him having a temper tantrum and slashing at things inside his ship with his lightsaber thing... it feels really, really wrong. Like... that can't happen in a Star Wars movie. The villain needs to be more grown up than that.

Again, not to come off as fanboying, but I disagree, I've already seen the movie twice and plan on going to see it again, and it was just as good on second viewing for me despite not seeing it in IMAX the second time. Sorry if I keep coming off like I feel the need to defend this film or whatever like I don't mean to but I guess I just liked it more than most people here though most people I talk to and the general response seems to be incredibly overwhelmingly positive outside of this site (save for some exceptions here and there).

You're allowed to dislike the movie for whatever reason you do and I totally see where you guys are coming from with your gripes and I have some gripes too (far less it seems than the rest of you) but I guess I respectfully disagree with your position on the movie I thought it was an 8.75/10 movie which is higher than Return of the Jedi but below A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. I dunno the movie for me worked on just about every level and hit all the right beats for me as a film.

Is it derivative? Yeah it is, but it's not what the movie is about, it's how it's about it, and I think Force Awakens goes about it immaculately. Are there some plotholes? Yeah I'm not gonna argue that it's perfect but what movie is? And I feel like nitpicking this movie for every little flaw misses the point of filmmaking in general. It's not about the music, or the acting, or the camerawork. It's not about the technical prowess of the movie, it's not even about the story. At the end of the day, the goal of a film and the goal of any work of art is to make the audience feel something. This movie made me feel a way I haven't felt since I was a little kid, and was a damn good too, if not completely narratively and technically perfect (though was still very good on both fronts in my opinion), so on it's most fundamental premise as a film, it was an absolute success.

As an aspiring filmmaker this is the kind of movie I look at and say "that's why I want to make movies." The feeling I got watching Force Awakens, that I got watching the Original Trilogy, that I got watching Inception, and Jurassic Park, and Indiana Jones, and all of my favorite movies, that feeling I get when I see a film the truly captures me emotionally, that's why I want to make films. Yeah the technical and narrative aspects are incredibly important too, but if the movie doesn't make me feel, I'm not going to love it. Maybe it'll make me feel a gut wrenching feeling, like Saving Private Ryan did, or maybe it'll illuminate an experience I had and I'll feel empathy for a character going through something I can relate to like Whiplash, or maybe it'll just capture me like Star Wars did in an enchantment of childlike wonder. A movie needs to make me feel something, and Force Awakens did. That's why I loved it on both viewings, aside from the fact that I think it's a well crafted film and the story is better than you guys are giving it credit.

SORRY for that little tirade-rant, but it's 3:40 am and subtlety and brevity are NOT my strong suits lol.

Also SC just saw your Kylo Ren post while I was typing this and I think you're missing the point of the character. He's not a fully formed villain. He's a fraud, he's weak, he's vulnerable, he's got feelings and emotions and motivations. He's not Darth Vader, and he never will be. He's human. Vader wasn't, really, not until the end of Return of the Jedi. He's a compelling character not just "I'm hella powerful and evil and I'm gonna f*ck sh*t up because reasons." Which admittedly is Darth Vader in A New Hope. Vader doesn't really become a great villain and character until Empire. Kylo Ren is a more interesting character as a villain than we've ever gotten in a Star Wars movie. He's everything Anakin should have been in and by the end of the prequels. I really like Kylo Ren and I want to see him evolve as a character, now that he's fully committed to the darkside by killing Han. He's not grown up. He's not supposed to be. Yet. He's a kid who's never been challenged until Rey. He's immature because he hasn't learned yet. His training isn't complete. That's the point of the character, and again I liked it. You don't have to like the decision, but I think saying it 'can't happen in a star wars movie' is missing the point of his character and how he developed on screen for the sake of the story. Just my thoughts, anyway. Kylo and Rey and their interaction was my favorite part of the film and how it progresses is the thing I look forward to seeing most in 8 and 9.

again, sorry I keep rebutting to you guys, I'm just putting my thoughts out feel free to disagree with them but I loved this movie and I'm just sharing that opinion, no big deal

TL ; DR I found it rewatchable, I thought Kylo was an interesting character, I loved the movie for how it made me feel in spite of it's flaws which are few and far between in my opinion, and you're totally allowed to disagree

Great post, its good to see people loving this film and giving the reasons why, instead of a load of people just moaning about all its bad points.

I get that Kylo Ren is supposed to be weak......... and there's a whole story to be told about him and everything........... BUT.......... at the same time............. is it all really right?

What's weird about it to me... and this goes back to what I was saying about how The First Order looks WORSE than Vader's Empire.... this little idjit, Kylo Ren, is running this whole thing? I mean, YES, there's Snoke... but still... Kylo Ren is basically the face of it?

I don't know. I think... if you wanna criticize something... Kylo Ren could have been a bit more composed. It's fine to be weak... it's another thing to go crazy and start destroying your ship with your weapon just because something didn't go your way. Because a GIRL caused you trouble. I mean, that's straight outta Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 when Leatherface starts chainsawing a radio station apart because a woman overpowered him and he was frustrated. As much as I love that movie, should a Star Wars film really make me think of it?

The ONLY thing Kylo Ren did in the movie that really warrants a return to the whole franchise... a reason to explore these characters again and put them at war with the Dark Side again.... is kill Han Solo. His father. Frankly, NOTHING else Kylo Ren and his minions did really matters, even when they killed people on Jakku. It's all about Han Solo's death. There really ISN'T much going on with Kylo Ren.

At least with Vader... there's a lot more to him. He had a backstory, which got explored in the prequels, and he had the story with the characters in the original trilogy, with his children. What does Kylo Ren have? WHERE are the prequels where Kylo Ren turned evil? Do we need those movies, too? There's not much to him. He's basically based around the fact that he killed his father... and maybe the fact that he, I guess, destroyed Luke's school, but whatever.

I'd like to have seen Kylo Ren when he started to become evil. I think it would have been fascinating to see Luke training students and then Ben Solo destroys everything. If it's seen in the next movie, great, but it could have started the whole new trilogy. That would have even made this movie feel .... like it's own thing, instead of just a "remake" of A New Hope.

You know, the prequels may have been boring, but at least George Lucas was trying to do something more original. The Force Awakens is fun, but we've seen it all before. It's nice that it's a new story and everything... I'm interested... but it absolutely was wrapped up in wrapping paper that we've received before.

Yeah, George Lucas did try something "original" alright, but his desperate attempts ended up ruining continuity and cresting the worst pacing and plot progression I've ever seen in a space opera. Sometimes sticking to old material is a good idea, even if we've seen it before.

And just how many space operas have you seen besides the original Star Wars trilogy?