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Dave Chappelle on Netflix (2 specials, and a future one coming)

Age of Spin - 8/10
Deep in the Heart of Texas - 6.5/10

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New Message Board -

I've never seen a message board built around comedy, so I started one. Feel free to give recommendations, to start your own categories, invite your friends.

Thank you!

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Elliot Mintz just posted these 3 videos in honor of Mort Sahl's birthday.. Lots of comedy of course, movie talk. I'm very familiar with the theater, I talked to Mort at the same spot 4 times. (Hey, if one person watches it, I'll be happy for life)

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

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Dave Chappelle has the Guinnest World Records for longest stand-up... He's had a handful that have been over 3 hours, including one I saw in Detroit.

I found this on YouTube -- It's almost 4 hours long. I'm going to watch the silly Bill Maher show, which is nothing but made in the lab, Democrat propaganda. I'd like to see more Republicans on there, but not the same guests all the time. Seems like he only had 40 guests in the last 16 years.

I'm a big fan of Chappelle, saw him twice, the other show was when I met him after the show.. When security tried to get in between us (for some reason no one notice him, but it was on the car to my car, and quite a few blocks from the theater) -- Dave stepped and said to those guys "Nah man, it's cool" and I spent a couple minutes with him, shook his hand, said what a great show and how much I loved his stand-up.

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Mort Sahl : The Cause is Humanity, interviewed by Alan Farley at the San Francisco Playboy Club. Broadcast on KPFA, 30 May 1970. Digitized by Pacifica Radio Archives.

ALAN FARLEY: Iíve heard a lot of people say that itís not possible to satirize the administration anymore because it satirizes itself. I donít know. That doesnít seem to stop you.
MORT SAHL: Well you know Iím commuting from Los Angeles and I got on the plane tonight. I commute everyday. A guy sat down next to me, heís in the electronics business, with a button down shirt and a sharp pencil. He showed me the financial page, the paper, and he said, "It must be difficult to kid about these things."
Well you know, if I waited for the times to be good Iím afraid that I wouldnít have a very urgent call toward my career. Because I started going back over it the other day. Here we have rack and ruin and the Vietnamese Cambodian hyphen Laos hyphen Ö
FARLEY: Hyphen.
SAHL: Yeah. (laughs) We have all that. Then prior to that, we had Lyndon Johnson and prior to that we had the overthrow of the government in Dallas. Which I heard a man refer to it as "The Opening Shots of World War III." Iím not sure he was far off. Then prior to that of course we had Eisenhower and a mild recession. Prior to that we had the loyalty oath of Senator Joe McCarthy. Prior to that we had World War II and you get to the point where you want to say, "Was it ever good?"
But I take that as a personal challenge. I must say that two things have changed in the approach to the work. Exaggeration is no longer available to me as a weapon because everything is all too credible. And the old comedianís trick of course was exaggeration. The logical extension to the absurd. Well the absurd, of course, is now of course now prime form. And the second thing is my biggest laughs are generally direct quotations rather than personal inventions. (laughs)
FARLEY: That makes me think of, oh I forget how many years ago, I guess it was in the early Kennedy days. When in The New Republic they published this satire, essentially on Seven Days in May. This was before Seven Days in May was written about how the government was taken over. A coup in the United States. It was completely incredible. Now you read a rumor that Nixon has asked - is it Rand Corporation? - to make a study of what would happen if he cancelled the elections in 1972. And you donít take that as something untrue.
SAHL: No, uh... the people are willing to accept it. I just finished [British Social Critic and Activist] Bertrand Russellís autobiography. He was always aghast at how people acquiesced to all of this in America. He said, "How could you get 200 million people to acquiesce?" So he was kind of happy at all the rumbles in this generation. And I am too, of course. But the question is Ö I think weíre in a race of time and I think the question is: can we hold the line long enough until the younger people get there? Iím not sure that we get there. Iím not sure that we can. I have no insurances. I think if we can, weíre going to be all right. In fact weíre going to be better than we ever were. But oh boy! (laughs)
Iím amazed a little bit at the climate. Iím certainly not a guy thatís easily amazed by what I have seen only this year. Iím surprised... a lot of people are acting viscerally, especially young people, because they havenít been given any information. Theyíve absolutely no information. For example, people that picket the President of the United States as if he is in charge of the government would be amusing as if the stakes werenít so high. The day that he drove to the Pentagon, I think he showed great candor.
FARLEY: Thatís the one when he called college students bums.
SAHL: Yeah, but he went to the Pentagon! He made no pretense like his predecessor. There is no doubt... I cannot believe... I was on The Dick Cavett Show a few weeks ago. I said on Friday. I picked up The New York Times. I said this is available to everybody. Sihanouk [Head of State of Cambodia] is going to be deposed in 72 hours. As a matter of fact it was about 84. And a puppet will arrive, a General, and he will invite us in. We will have access to Cambodia. Itíll be presented as a fait accompli to the President. Itís his job is to explain it to the people. And itís a CIA operation. Anybody who is now blind to the CIA and the Generals, I am quite amazed by that.
By the way, I did two hours, I mean the people donít know or they donít want to, I did two hours in New York with Abbie Hoffman on radio and [Attorney] Gerald Lefcourt. Lefcoutís behavior astonished me. I bring this up because I think we have an audience of some sophistication.
FARLEY: Heís an attorney, isnít he?
SAHL: Yes. He was one of the attorneys who were held in contempt originally by Hoffman, Judge [Julius] Hoffman. Remember?
FARLEY: Along with [Defense Attorney] Mike Tigar.
SAHL: Originally. Right. Then of course he represented himself here as lawyer for the Panthers in New York. But Iíve never seen anyone behave as he behaved that night, unless that person were either a Trotskyite twenty years ago, or a fink for the CIA today. Because when Abby, who was pretty funny, every time Abby became rational and was at room temperature, Lefcourt, urged him on to excess.
[Radio Host] Barry Gray who was conducting the program, at one point said, "Whatís gonna happen?" Abby said, "Nothing short of revolution. Weíre going to take over." And he said, "Are you going to have elected representatives from different districts?" And Abby said, "Well we haven't worked that out. But what do you wanna know for?" And Barry Gray said, "Well, I live on the block, I just want to know the rules." (Laughs)
Lefcourt continually said... I said, "What are the limits of your probation? How much does the judge allow you to express yourself?" "Short of sedition." And Lefcourt says, "Yeah, but we donít know what that means."
Well Iím sure that even if Abby doesnít know what that means, Iím sure that an attorney who was wearing a three or four hundred dollar suit and fashionable sideburns certainly knows the definition of sedition and what will put Abby back behind bars where he will be impotent and mute. And this attorney then went on to tell me, at one point I said that whenever America was generally threatened, young men lined up at recruiting stations. They couldnít handle them they had so many young men. And suddenly young men donít line up. Therefore we might look at this particular threat and analyze it as opposed to condemning youth which Bob Hope has done and other professional patriots. And Lefcourt says, "Youíre crazy, this society is doomed! They wouldnít fight for anything in America because itís racist!" And I reminded him that I thought the cause was humanity, it was not merely racist. And he went on to say to me, "It canít be saved!" And he went on to develop a resentment, we were on the air for two hours, a resentment of the fact that there might be a solution for the American people.
When I pointed out to him the evidentiary material from the trial of Clay Shaw that Jim Garrison held in New Orleans, he said that I was paranoiac about CIA conspiracies and that all I did was depress people with the news about the Kennedys and that they may have died but a lot of people died in that time period, so what?
Now this lawyer who yawned when I presented evidence - grave implications about the Central Intelligence Agency, the FBI, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff having to do with the President's death - not only did not admonish me for being irresponsible, did not rebut me, did not agree with me, but yawned and called me a paranoiac. He said, "When Abby Hoffman talks, people march. When you talk, they get depressed."
Well Iím sure there must be other alternatives to marching or being depressed! (Laughs) Iím very suspicious of that manís motives. And I was shocked. I was shocked by what I found. Thatís one of many experiences.
But as I was saying Alan, you know a lot of the young people donít have the facts and they donít know anything. Theyíre operating viscerally. And they donít really know whatís going on. I mean they seemed to be very, very shocked.
I was at the University of Miami recently and a kid told me he thought that Clay Shaw had been persecuted by Garrison for political gain. Garrison has been elected down there by the largest pluralities in the history of the city. And the fact that they donít know that. Or the fact that they picket the President, that they think the President orders Intelligence agencies. They have no idea what the intelligence community is in this country even though itís on their campuses. Is there anyone who doesnít know anything about the CIA in this country? Is there anyone whoís so [unintelligible] and pure? Theyíre in the Panthers. Thereís three of them I think in the Los Angeles Free Press. Thatís their style. To embed themselves and change editorial opinion. Influence it that is.
But anyway, to continue.
FARLEY: One of the things i found most interesting, when you were here last time, just your recounting of your experience with the commercial media. And what happened to you here in San Francisco at the stations. And also, I donít know if you saw the review in The Chronicle-
SAHL: Yes I did.
FARLEY: The day after that I did a short thing on the air where I read that review and I said what I thought. Because I couldnít believe that he saw the same show that I did. I saw three of your four shows.
SAHL: Well, Iíd like you to know that that fella is an interesting fella, [Entertainment Critic] John Wasserman. [Jazz Critic] Philip Elwood of course in The Examiner was highly in praise of the show.
FARLEY: Elwood. Heís on our station.
SAHL: Is he?
FARLEY: He has a regular show and heís a good guy.
SAHL: Oh great. Heís been very good to me and very fair. Wasserman has been in repeatedly and heís been highly subjective. Interestingly enough, while he sat with me at Enriqueís Coffee House or [San Francisco Nightclub] The hungry i, various haunts in the old days, he would sit there and tell me that he thinks I'm marvelous. In other words, he did not allow himself the privilege of disagreeing with me even about a subject we were discussing. Now thatís really leading a kind of a cursed life. A man should allow himself that as an adult. He would sit there with me and nod in assent and then walk away and write that Iím insane. He never writes about the show. He never writes about the quality of the show. Because I know what I've been doing. Iíve been doing it for seventeen years. And I think I know how to get a laugh out of all of it, including the tragedy. I have developed some skills and I am an artist. Iíve never had that questioned.
However, Wasserman now comes to us for absolution and says, "Heís forced to write this by his superior [San Francisco Journalist] Herb Caen at the paper." And, I think this is extremely naive, to have followed such a directive, if itís true. And history tells us itís true. So does Holiday Magazine. Grover Salesí article about Herb Caen. If itís true, I think itís very naive of him to expect absolution for having accepted such an instruction. Because that makes him even less in my eyes. That his job is worth that much Ö
It was Adolf Hitler who said, "That the members of the press could all be bought," he used to say gleefully. But then he used to break into laughter and he told [American Journalist] William L. Shirer, he said, "Why do you laugh my FŁhrer, if this fact is known to you and itís ingrained?" He said, "Because you have no idea how cheap."
You really can. I know some of them are under the thumb of a tyrant for $135 a week. Theyíre ready to do homicide and to misinform the American people. He referred to me - he said paranoiac Ö (Laughs)
FARLEY: What I thought and said at that time, I had actually come to your show with some preconceptions of having seen you on Dick Cavett and Merv Griffin, and I actually thought that it wasnít going to be as good as what you used to do. I was completely wrong. I thought it was just as good and better than the kind of thing, I shouldnít say then kind of thing because itís essentially the same kind of thing, but you're in good form.
SAHL: A performer has to grow, God knows, it should get better. If youíre doing anything it shouldnít be static.
FARLEY: Yeah but paranoia never entered my mind. The fact that you talked about The Warren Commission Report and the fact that you had the Warren Commission Report on the stage was interesting. The fact that you didn't use the blackboard didnít upset me. Or the fact that you were a little bit late coming on didnít upset me since Iíd been to other shows on Broadway that didnít start on time.
SAHL: Of course the show starts when the owner thinks that thereís a quorum. I donít set the schedule. I donít know what all that means.
FARLEY: It was completely irrelevant.
SAHL: Or I guess I do know what it all means. Iíve had personal differences with Caen. Weíve had personal differences. Heís threatened me with the newspaper while inebriated. Heís really foolish to think that a newspaper has any influence anymore in an electronic era.
FARLEY: The one thing that I did say, well, not to try to read the mind of Wasserman, but I did say that you had a few unkind things to say about The Chronicle.
SAHL: Thatís quite so.
FARLEY: And that might have something to do with why-
SAHL: Yes, thereís a correlation.
FARLEY: And I do remember you saying that thing about Herb Caen and his-
SAHL: Yeah and that the only thing Herb Caen and I agree on is that weíre both ashamed of his being Jewish. And I think that still stands. (Both laugh)
Herb Caen once said to me there are three stages in the level of man. He quoted [William F.] Buckley. Heís a good liberal. A good liberal in the sense that heís extremely tolerant of Buckley, likes to have luncheons with Buckley. Liberals are great, itís all sport. You know, the game is over. The trial is over and perhaps [Black Panther] Bobby Sealeís going to be electrocuted but weíre attorneys! Why canít we go out and have a drink? I mean weíre objective. I donít have to agree with a guy just because I defend him! I think the wonderful thing about our system that these people should be electrocuted but first we give them a trial. Isnít that the way? Well - Liberals!
So Herb Caen said, to return to this, he said that Buckley had pointed out to him there were three levels in the evolution of man and his philosophical nature. The first was narcissism and love of self, the second was love of your fellow man, idealism, and the third would be love of your country. And in my opinion, Herb Caen is arrested at the level of love of his fellow man and people can make of that what they will.
But itís amazing. You know whatís amazing, to take it away from him, because he isn't even worth discussing, is that people would think that a guy who writes a column about the fog and the bridge is influential. That people at the clubs would pick up his check. I used to say, you know Herb Caen and I have something else in common: at The hungry i, neither one of us ever got a check! Iím afraid that's true.
For all of that, heís another one. He represents a class in this country. He romanced John Kennedy and he romanced Robert Kennedy. And when they were murdered - assassination is too much of a euphemism - they were murdered. He relegated them to being casualties of World War II, he never mentioned them again and he didnít care. They certainly left him no legacy. Now if they had nothing that was memorable then I donít know why he courted them. Unless heís interested in power.
If youíre really interested in power I would go all the way. Iíve never understood men that go halfway anyway. I would either put my money in a mutual fund in Geneva, in fact Iíd move to Geneva. Either go to work for the Nixon administration and make the most of this chaos and profit from death of your fellow man. Or run with the ball and run all the way. I donít know about these goes who go to the fifty yard line and sit there who are professional spectators.
Thereís an embittered group of people in the Bay Area who are growing old, feeding off each other. I must say to you, the more you maintain your position, humorously enough, the more they accuse you of changing. Theyíre always saying to me, "Gee Mort, youíve really changed!" And I haven't changed at all. I still think what I think of Franklin D. Roosevelt. And I think what I think of John F. Kennedy. I guess I miss them a little more. I think I miss the optimism that was around when he was here. And I suppose I miss hope as a factor in our existence. And I would think that if I were one of those older people like Caen, I would miss the fact that my children donít want to speak to me. Iíd miss my children. Or Iíd miss them if they were in an early grave.
Itís quite remarkable whatís happened here. Because when I started at The hungry i, there was an in-group and an out-group. There were the Eisenhower Republicans in, and the rebels, my audience, the constituency, were people who were out and who were Democrats. And today, itís generational. It really is. The rebellion. I mean, most people you get over twenty, are really locked in. Theyíre programmed to the grave.
FARLEY: What about here? At the Playboy Club? I would think it would be mostly over that-
SAHL: You know, my job is not to assume that everybody in the audience agrees with me. Because in my role Iím often privileged to see material that they donít see. In other words, I see things coming and I sometimes pay the penalty of seeing things first.
When people thought Eisenhower was inoffensive, and a quiet soul, and they even were even fond of him, I was ridiculing him of being inept.
FARLEY: thatís an accepted fact now.
SAHL: To say it first you endanger yourself. When they were on a honeymoon with Johnson, I began to go after Johnson, they didnít like that. Of course the most extreme example of this is that I know the names of some of the people who killed President Kennedy, and as a result, to say it first - soon everyone will say it I promise you that - but I said it first and as a result, I was penalized.
So when I go out on the stage, I assume that no one agrees with me. And Iím privileged for that too. Iím penalized, partially. In other words, nobody quite understands the wavelength Iím on. But on the other hand, they do treat me like a prophet and they pay me many thousand dollars a week. Which frees me, a great deal of time, to do what I want to do.
Now, Playboy opened up The Festival of Stars and I must say, without giving away any trade secrets, bankrupted themselves for eight days here. Asked me to come in here and I did because itís gainful employment and I say what I want to say. But you know, one of the alarming things is that for all the people in the audience with short hair cuts and neckties and probably Nixon buttons, itís a challenge of sorts for me to show them their idol, President Nixon and especially his Vice President, even more so.
FARLEY: The Attorney General?
SAHL: Yeah, right very good. To show them some other sides of these people. Which I want you to know, Iíve done and, knock wood, successfully. But there isnít as much of a gulf with the audience as you would think.
For instance, when I was up here at The hungry i, I found that my people, so-called, were fragmented and lost. Itís as Garrison had pointed out: when it comes to admitting that thereís been a military coup in the United States there are no liberals. There are no open-minded people. Garrison once said, "The wonder of this country is not that they could overthrow the government, but that five of us could surround the Federal government", which we have done successfully. I donít know what weíre gonna do with it, but we did it! He and three assistants and myself. And you know, I see it as one cause. I donít see it as piecemeal.
The other day in Los Angeles, one of the announcers on an AM station asked once of Abernathyís people why there werenít more Black faces in the protests. Well he said that, "The war is your thing. The white guys. The other thing is our thing."
Iím sorry he feels that way. Itís naive of course. Iíve always felt the cause is humanity and all of these are interconnected. This is all a network. These are all symptoms happening to the same body. I donít believe in spontaneity, especially of construction workers who resent students at this late date. (Laughs) Usually all they resent is the last wage settlement.
FARLEY: When you said that you know the names, are these names of people or you mean names of the organizations? When you mentioned the CIA, The Joint Chiefs-
SAHL: Names of people.
FARLEY: Youíve mentioned these people already?
SAHL: I donít choose to now.
FARLEY: Oh you haven't?
SAHL: No, I havenít. Iím not free to. By the District Attorneyís office. But people say, "Will we ever know?" The irony is that there are people know now. And people in high places and in places of trust. You know the question is: what is a reporter?
When Lyndon Johnson was on the other night with Cronkite-
FARLEY: Oh yeah, I didnít see that. I see that someone has already subpoenaed for the outtakes from that.
SAHL: Yeah, [Private Investigator Sherman] Skolnick. Skolnick has been informed, heís been given some information by a Secret Service agent who has also been in touch with our office in New Orleans and whoís a very reputable character. We can tell because heís been thrown out of the Secret Service and because he's also Black. The irony is that look at the press here. The program came on, and Iím paraphrasing but Iím very close here this is almost verbatim, they said, "Certain materials has been deleted for purposes of National Security at the President's request."
Now we find out in The Washington Post that Johnson had second thoughts about letting the people know that he doesn't believe Oswald acted alone, if he acted at all, and that he had misgivings about The Warren Report. Now Translate that into English.
Cronkite represents himself as a reporter. He didnít break that story, The Washington Post did! He isnít a reporter at all! He was sent there because we know, and CBS knows, that he will not expose those people. Heís in bed with those people! Itís quite ironic.
And there's several things I canít explain either. I don't know why is it light and the man is [Broadcast Journalist] David Schoenbrun goes on the air and says, "Gee, Nixonís making the same mistakes Johnson made." I donít know why David Schoenbrun doesnít completely open up and see, and he knows, that the Central Intelligence Agency and that the Pentagon are running the war. And say it. Because whatís he got to lose?
The other day in Connecticut, Mark Lane of all people, said, "I never said the CIA killed the President. I merely said that the Warren Report didnít tell who did." Well, Mark Lane has had access to all the files in New Orleans that I have, and he knows very well what agency is deeply implicated in the Presidentís death. I canít believe, even with my immense ego, that Iím the only man in America who knows that in three years of John Kennedy 137 men died in Vietnam and now that's a good week. I canít believe that no one else knows that 14,500 men were in Vietnam when John Kennedy died. That Lyndon Johnson stood next to his casket at the Capitol and said to Ambassador Lodge and said, "Itís a new ball game now." And eleven months later, 500,050 men were in Vietnam. I canít believe that no one else can connect this scenario. Am I the only one with these gifts? It cannot be in a country of 212 million people! I mean surely someone must see it now.
You know, Martin Luther King was wise when he said, the liberals are saying weíre brutalizing the Vietnamese, he said, "Weíre brutalizing our own people by the act of taking part in this war."
FARLEY: It becomes clearer-
SAHL: Daily. And the people are brutalized. I can remember when you and I would have sat here and said, "Gee, if only the media who show the pictures of the napalm children." Well of course they did, and the people have accepted it. They can explain away my line. They were provoked.
FARLEY: They smoked marijuana.
SAHL: Oh yeah I forgot that one. Thatís the latest.
They certainly became facile, and you know itís such a shock to see your country bitten by the same virus that bit the Germans. I thought that the Germans were genetically murderers at one time. Thatís kind of amusing now that I would think that. In fact, during the Six Days War it was my opinion, and generally an unpopular one among liberals again, that the Israelis became militarists when they were victorious. Theyíre making fun of [inaudible] and he became their Aldai Stevenson. And [Israeli General] Moshe Dayan became their Dwight Eisenhower at that moment. That virus of brutality can bite anybody. And it bit America. The direction weíre going in weíre going to make the Germanís look like pikers.
FARLEY: When you appear on the mass media, what happens? Are you allowed to say what you want?
SAHL: Yes, you either donít do a program, although thatís kind of academic. Itís hard to know when you donít do it. To be present when people don't hire you is almost, how can you be? Itís like being both the corpse and the detective. Itís kind of hard to solve the crime in that sense. In the times that I have appeared, I have appeared itís quite a record. Last year, the calendar year Ď69, I was on 31 network talk shows. Thatís Joey Bishop, Dick Cavett et al. Thatís quite a record. That isnít counting Frost and the other.
No one has ever jumped at anything but there have been some marvelous symptomatic responses around me. For instance, James Earl Jones the Black actor, said on one program with Cavett. I said, "American people need information." He said, "Maybe thereís a danger in knowing too much too." He thought if you go in that direction, in other words youíll find out who did it then the burden will be upon you to right the ship of state. He also meant, "I waited a long time to be successful and donít tell me the bank is gonna close now." Of course thatís the English translation.
A girl named Gloria Steinem who professes to be a worker for George McGovern, but as I understand it, well, Iím getting ahead of myself. This girl said in New York Magazine, I asked her on the air Ö what she read. She said, "Well I only read New York. I would no more read Ramparts," she said, "than Time because it has a preconceived bias." And I said, "Do you think Ramparts is penetrated on the basis on the fact that they were the first to point out what the CIA was doing at the universities?" She said, "Oh by now the CIA must be penetrated." And she went on ridicule it and generally draw framework of paranoia and madness about me, successfully.
After the program, driven by guilt, she sent me a wire of apology. But the nine million people that saw the program didnít see the wire. That girl attended The Vienna Peace Festival, the Leftist festival which is what Ď59 or something, theoretically as a Berkleyite with a guitar but the CIA bought her plane ticket. And I donít know whether she is merely an informant or whether she thinks itís a lark - which is even more dangerous - or that itís all funny. But it isnít funny to the bodies floating out of Cambodia certainly, needless to say. Sheís an acquaintance of mine, Iíd hardly call her a friend and Iím amazed. There have been many such experiences on the network when I have talked to people. As I have gone, after the facts, and I tried to take advantage of limited time, the people have fallen away around me. If not physically, theyíve become silent. They havenít answered me.
In other words, I took as an almost a guideline, I would say, "No I wonít come on and keep saying Jim Garrison every show. Iíll only come on if I have new information." And I did have new information, but nobody wouldnít answer me.
FARLEY: So the way they put you down is just to not react?
SAHL: Not to react. And Iím terribly upset by the fact no one debates. No one admonishes me if they donít believe me. And this mute reaction, this no reaction, alarms me in this country. Again itís, "I donít want to get involved, I want to keep my job." And itís coming down around them. And as the man said, "The bomb will kill even the indifferent. The bomb is indiscriminate." Garrison was the man and heís quite correct.
These people donít say anything. They just is there, they donít challenge any of the reports or any of the conclusions. They left me out there. For me to go on the air and say that the CIA is the number one dope dealer. And adventurers within the CIA will bank the money from the imports from Southeast Asia, and not to get a letter to challenge it or ask for documentation? Not to hear from anyone! And to know that went out to over 211 television stations to an audience of between 9 and 14 million. The silence is deafening! How can that be? How can you get nothing? How can you have no reaction? Where are we? What the hell is this? 1984?
I know Iím alone. There must be men of counter-passions perhaps, maybe not the same. Outside of [Comedian] Dick Gregory, the Black community is fascinating. I think that [Bill] Cosby is a fraud. Heís dancing on the grave of every Black guy who wears a green beret. Heís standing there and denying that the last 25 years took place. Stands there and talks about his family like nothing ever happened. Heís denying all of that struggle, standing there with Mrs. Coretta King as credentials, sheís his frequent house guest.
I was in London. I talked to Peter Donat who is the number one detective there. We have evidence that leads us to believe that the man who was tried here is not the man who was apprehended in London. James Earl Ray said in court, "If the government believes in a conspiracy, let the government have a trial!" And thereís no trail. Bill Cosby doesnít ask for one. Bill Cosby banks money. He impersonates a negro. Iím more Black than he is!
Where are the men? Where are the men who are going to save this country? Where are the Americans? I know that I risk ridicule and people are gonna say itís hokey and itís flag waving. But we have a very simple mission, although itís somewhat overwhelming, and that is to save America. Because weíre altruistic? No! Because we have to live somewhere. I donít know if itís too late. From what I have seen, those are the indications. But as Major Ernesto [Che] Guevara said, "You know theyíre going to kill you, weíll take that as our basic premise. Now letís get back on the trail, letís start marching." Or as the Viennese used to say in Freud's time: "Situation hopeless but not serious." (Laughs)
FARLEY: You mentioned Bill Cosby and that made me think of Richard Pryor. Richard Pryor doesnít do really do a lot of stuff about the war but heís certainly pretty honest.
SAHL: You know I have no place to see him Alan. We did a show in Los Angeles recently for ABC called Humor of the Sixties and Richard was on it. I laughed once. I remember when he said, they tried to bait him. They said, "You copied Cosby didnít you?" Instead of denying it he said, in his formative years, he said, "Yes I did but since Cosby never came up with anything new I was forced to be creative." (Laughs)
Which I thought was marvelous! He has a beautiful backhand. He didnít move! He looked past him and he just Ö But Iíve heard from many quarters which are reputable such as yourself, reputable in my opinion, in my estimate. You know heís on the right side. He cares about something.
FARLEY: He made me think of Lenny Bruce when I saw him.
SAHL: See I had no place to see him.
FARLEY: He appears here pretty frequently.
SAHL: Here in town? Where does he work?
FARLEY: Mason Street also in the showcase in Oakland.
SAHL: The showcase?
FARLEY: The Black-
SAHL: Really? Iíd like to get over there. See I have no place to see him, I have no access!
FARLEY: See heís going to be at the showcase next weekend, the weekend after youíre gone.
SAHL: Why doesnít Bill Cosby make his program available to Gregory?
FARLEY: When you see him on television, itís really a much different show. Heís really much better in the club. He can say what he wants to say he doesnít have to worry about offensive 4, 6, 10, and 12 letter words.
SAHL: What is his outlook, would you say?
FARLEY: A lot of people think heís terribly negative. And hostile.
SAHL: Justifiably.
FARLEY: And hostile. Well that sort of is. Thatís true.
SAHL: In other words, itís a true picture. Itís not Cosby standing there and saying, "I love you all." He doesnít. He doesnít! Cosby went into his office some months ago in Los Angeles and fired all the white people. Which I fail to see as a sign of progress. Itís insanity! To alternate the oppressor is hardly an advance.
Pryor is really reflecting a contemporary attitude, honestly. I canít say that about too many performers, can you?
FARLEY: No, thatís it!
SAHL: Thatís what I have against all of them. Thatís why I think that Johnny Carson and Bob Hope and Frank Sinatra, those people who are prevalent, and Streisand, are completely out of touch with America.
FARLEY: As out of touch as Richard Nixon?
SAHL: Absolutely! So when they tell you they rule you, itís like we should find an antithesis, another term for the overground. We always talk about the underground. We are the top layer of the earth, they donít exist! Barbra Streisand says sheís 26, take her at her word, is there anybody in her generation that sheís in touch with? I see them everywhere. I either see them at the pleasure fair or I see them getting a haircut, putting on a tie, and going into Washington and talking to legislators, and worrying about being blown up. I donít see anyone like her! What is she doing? I mean singing lyrics that are completely neutral! Theyíre not just in the middle, there's a neutrality there, vanilla!
And Sinatra? Sinatra is merely an intimidated man who poses as a rebel. Heís not a rebel. He poses as socially maladaptive. Heís not at all. The more insane this atmosphere becomes, the more he fits in. Heís perfect.
Carson is really the principal member of the Gestapo. He is instructed, he is an employee, and he is not a marshmallow. Some guys on the air are marshmallows. He is not. His handling of Garrison and the people he chooses to put on the air and off the air and his handling of political issues show very much where he stands. The fact that he thinks Peter Fonda Ö he talks to Peter Fonda as if heís Jerry Rubin which will give you an idea. And Jerry Rubin is almost a dated term. Things are moving rapidly!
First of all, the whole idea of leadership begins to worry me. When they say Abbie and Jerry are influences. Thatís even insane. But I sure hope those young people Ö the revolution doesnít get lost in drugs. Boy I hope so.
But to get back to the entertainers, I think that they're a failure. Theyíre not relevant, to use that clichť. They really aren't. I canít-
FARLEY: The fact that the Smothers Brothers were put off television for doing what they were doing-
SAHL: Itís laughable.
FARLEY: And what I see, what was in TV Guide this week? Dick Smothers saying that theyíre told by ABC to cool it.
SAHL: You can bet on it. I was on their last show. Because know the last show did not appear so I was literally on their last show. My monologue was edited by them.
FARLEY: Yeah I noticed that it was edited.
SAHL: It wasnít edited by the network, it was edited by them. And nobody in the network called them and told them to edit it. But they donít have to be told.
Now I saw a producer in Los Angeles recently and he said to me, "Going to Washington Iíve got a political script and Iím going there to get clearance." And upon further discussion I found out no one from Washington knew he was writing anything and nobody had called him. He was voluntarily Ö Theyíve got them conditioned pretty damned well. Thatís why there are so many unconscious members of the conspiracy. How many members of the press wrote negatively about Garrison because they know that thatís the trend? It has nothing to do with anything else itís that American bandwagon stock market opportunism. The brokerís approach.
In other words, guys would come to me... this isnít generally known. A very influential producer came to me, because I had access to Garrison, to do a motion picture on Garrison that he knew young people would go to see it. He said, "Does he got a chance of winning this case?í
When he lost the case, that producer said to me he was convinced that Shaw was an innocent man who was wronged. Now both of those were extreme attitudes for a man who didnít read any of the testimony.
You know I brought the testimony back from New Orleans and I made the initial stuff, because you know itís really voluminous, available to the Los Angeles Free Press. And I ask you: what kind of a country do we live in when the only copies of the testimony of a pathologist who admits he didnít give the president an autopsy but swore under oath that he did Ö And when a pathologist from the United States Army [Pierre Finck] says The Warren Report is really impossible, itís fraudulent, its analysis Ö And the only availability of that is in the Los Angeles Free Press and is delivered by hand by a nightclub comedian, and thereís no other report of it Ö What can the other members of the press be? Are all of them bought? I doubt it. But they know which side of the bread is dry and which is buttered. They know whatís expected of them by now. I really do think that theyíre programmed.
FARLEY: Often they wait for someone else to break the story and then they jump on it. In the case Paul Krassner and The Realist with the Kennedy marriage story for one, way back.
SAUL: Gee, you have great recall. Krassner is an example-
FARLEY: They wait for some little "disreputable" paper to print something then theyíll step up and do it.
SAUL: They stampede donít they? They stampede. No they didnít jump on it this time and ironically enough, Mark Lane said in a book called A Citizenís Dissent, he said, "In another time instead of being fired, I would have won a Pulitzer Prize." Itís interesting. [Reporter] Merriman Smith, who recently killed himself, won a Pulitzer Prize for reporting the assassination. He reports in it that he was riding under the underpass when he heard the shots that killed our young president, which is interesting since he was two cars behind Kennedy and Kennedy never reached the underpass. He was killed while ahead of it and possibly from it. So that man was given a Pulitzer Prize.
Now that distortion, and that perversion of our values, that madness of leaking information, and of the intelligence community running hog wild with a blank check Ö Of course you know no voice is wholly loss, itís still Jeffersonís America. He structured it pretty damn well. Because while itís wobbling and itís creaking, itís still here. I really do believe that if a few young people, and there are very few countries that would be like this, if a few young people hadn't gotten their heads open in Chicago and if [Senator] Bill Fulbright hadnít kept yelling, I think weíd be in Mainland of China by now. I have no doubt. Based on what Iíve seen and what I know. When we say CIA weíre not talking about Sean Connery and attractive people and international intrigue, weíre talking about mutual funds in Switzerland and weíre talking about-
FARLEY: Who is it that runs the CIA? Itís not something that Richard Helms Ö Heís just a civilian employee.
SAUL: Itís the warfare state. Of course not. Overtly he does but there are certain people in the government who have an annuity as a result of what they know and as a result of their complicity in the Presidentís death. In other words, the last guy we had who raised an objection for our side, the human side in America, was killed for his pains. In a sense, Jack Kennedy, the greatest compliment they paid him, was the attention they paid him when they decided to eliminate him.
But weíre talking about the Patrice Lumumba, weíre talking about shooting people in the street, weíre talking about an assassination bureau, and weíre talking about the warfare state. People make the mistake, the Liberals out here say to me, "Well you moved to New Orleans, how could you live in the South? Itís racist." Well, I think the military-police type of mentality is anywhere that a factory owns a city. I think itís Los Angeles where Lockheed owns the city, I think Boeing owns Seattle. I think that this country is colonized Ö Are you familiar with a book called Pentagonism by [Overthrown President of the Dominican Republic] Juan Bosch?
FARLEY: Familiar Ö only to the extent that Iíve heard of it.
SAHL: Itís the Grove Press, itís a small volume. I encourage everybody who can to get it. Itíll only take you an hour to read. Itís a very concise history of what they did to us and what theyíre attempting to impose upon us. And weíre fighting back feebly because some of this think that itís worth it. And he says weíre the colonized people. He says not the other countries, and weíll continue to be because they got to keep crises going. Itís the warfare state for which he coined the term "Pentagonism."
FARLEY: I guess [Author] Fred Cook wrote a thing about the warfare state a few years back.
SAHL: Yes he did, yes he did. The Warfare State. And a few Liberals have talked about the military industrial complex, which I treat as fact.
FARLEY: And Eisenhower is one of the people who put his finger on it ironically.
SAHL: Well isnít it funny? That was an Arthur Larson speech, by the way. I love the fact that we have no Liberal who brought it out. The Liberals are continually quoting Eisenhower and they become reverent when he introduced that about Eisenhower because he served that purpose. He pointed out that danger. Liberals protect themselves from reality usually, youíll note when youíre in their company, that they talk about it in the future tense. That it could emerge. Well of course itís emerged and eaten us, itís overwhelmed us.
Garrison said to me once - he showed me some pictures of Cape Kennedy - which figured in our investigation Ö although I wonít go into that in detail. He said to me, he said, "I once talked to a woman there who works in one of the cafeterias. She gets $1,000 a month just on the line serving orange juice." And someone asked him how he thought the trial would go, he said, "Do you really think theyíre going to let me put an end to all that? Little me? Stop all that?"
Thatís really true. Itís quite overwhelming. And to think any President elected by the people is going to go to General Wheeler, or Admiral Moore, or Richard Helms, or J. Edgar Hoover and tell them to "get out"... The only one I noticed was Gene McCarthy who said heíd fire Hoover. And by the way, I was on The Joey Bishop Show and I said on that show, and for all these things that are said that are lost, I said if McCarthy was elected and he did that he would need a bodyguard of 1,000 men or heíll be assassinated. I also said if Bob Kennedy wins the California primary, heís our next president and he will die at a gunmanís hand.
Now all that came out of that is that a reporter said the next day in a paper that I should be blacklisted on the networks. I shouldnít be allowed on to say things like that. And I think thatís unique in American history that a member of the Press would ask that a blacklist be instituted. Iíve never heard of that before! But in my case of course exceptions are generally made. Remarkable. Remarkable! My phone doesnít ring in Beverly Hills. Nobody says to me, "Where did you get that? What does it mean?" And even for those have estimated that Iím a dead man, Iíve been a long time dying. About eight years now. And thatís the slowest death since Jimmy Cagney in G Men. Warner Brothers, 1931.
FARLEY: How are the young people gonna save the country?
SAHL: Well, first thing theyíve got to do is preserve their state of mind. Theyíve got to be kept from being driven mad. Being driven mad is the paranoia that happened to their parents. Communism. Communism: "They did that to us, therefore we can burn up their village". In order to make you Nazis, which is not your heritage, theyíve got to make you crazy first which is what the Germans did to youth.
Theyíve taken a bold step so far. Theyíve built an army but you donít want to be in it. Thatís the first flaw here. This is a very bad country to try to turn into a fascist nation in that sense. German kids at least like to march, American kids don't seem to have any predilection toward being in the service. Thatís a good sign. So youíve got to preserve the state of mind and not go nuts.
The second thing that happens is youíve got to keep yourself well-informed and you canít audition the truth. When someone comes to you and says, "The president was murdered by the military." You canít say, "Well, I canít accept that." You have to accept the evidence before you and you have to do something about it. And when people warn you Ö after all, when I first started blowing the whistle, there were alternatives. And today there are none. They killed all the alternatives.
FARLEY: Thatís the thing. Maybe it didnít happen to Kennedy's assassination but the next assassination. When people come up and say after the assassination, "Well, they killed the man but the didnít kill the idea." Well, thatís a bunch of bull- [censored 47:58] because men are really quite important.
SAHL: When we talk about The Constitution, does President Nixon have the right to wage war? What about the Cooper-Church Amendment? Iím afraid that even Tom Jefferson, and I thought an awful lot of him, could not write a constitution with built-in safeguards because itís the man, not the form. Yes, Adlai Stevenson would not do that do you. Maybe he would, who knows? But Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson would.
I think the reason youíve have not heard from Gene McCarthy lately is that he didnít believe that the can of worms was so deadly. And when he opened it and looked at it, he went into shock that they had advanced this much into American life. Permeated every branch. Central Intelligence Agency is in every major religious group. Itís in the major police departments. Itís in the youth groups. Itís in the publications. Itís at the wire services. Itís at the television networks. They are the minions of the Pentagon.
The remarkable part of this is, yeah certain things would have to happen. Theyíve got to go out, what theyíre gonna have to do is get a man they believe, theyíre gonna have to elect him, and theyíre gonna have to get 1,000 man bodyguard around him and theyíre gonna have to stand in front of the Central Intelligence Agency and tell everybody in there to come out with his hands up and burn the building to the ground. And then theyíre gonna have to have trials. I think what they should do is try every member of The Warren Commission as an accessory after the fact. I think they should take Sirhan out of jail. Find out if he was programmed. Find out who sent him. In other words, a real trial. Not a coverup. Not a whitewash. Those people who are so fond of Law and Order, I can give them some good examples. I worked in a police department for three and a half years in New Orleans and I didnít speculate I saw evidentiary material. I donít want to hear anymore about young men with no permanent address and no allies whose mother didnít love them who decided to kill peace candidates. And thatís what Martin Luther King was. He wasnít just a Black leader for Civil Rights. He was against the war! And he could have stopped Black people from going, which was his aim, and that's why he was killed. And I say that unequivocally. The preponderance of bodies over there are Black that is that they have a disproportionate contribution that theyíve made.
Iíd like to say in finality here, since I have the opportunity, Iíd like to see the people who killed Jack Kennedy, the killers of the dream, and Bob Kennedy, and Martin Luther King, who are the same people and that can be proved Ö I would like to see them hanged, and then Iíd like to see capital punishment abolished in the United States and Iíd like to see my kids to grow up in school and learn from their civics teacher that the last people executed in America were the people who tried to kill the men of peace.
FARLEY: Thank you very much Mort Sahl.