Not for the faint hearted...i need advice

i'm sorry if this hurts or offends anyone in any way...its really late over here and i just got an upsetting phone call...i'm hoping that, seeing as most of you are in the northern hemisphere and will be on the boards while i'm sleeping, well, i'm hoping to get some replies of advice by tomorrow evening

a friend called saying that this guy who we haven't seen in a while is in a really bad state mentally...he's admitted to his family that he wants to committ suicide, and has been withdrawn and depressed for nearly a year now...

he was a successfull radio producer and business magazine editor when we knew him....but over the past year, he has quit working, no longer goes out of the house (its been months since he has literally stepped outside of his house) and his mother called us saying that she needed help with him and that she didn't know what to do any longer...she was so desperate that she asked us if she should just "let him go"!!!

he seems to have completely convinced himself (and his mother apparently, which i think is just bizarre) that dying is his only way out of his depression....i know that he was on medication, but don't know whether he still is....his parents forced him to see a psychologist at the local hospital - and apparently this "doctor", after one visit, smiled at his parents saying there was nothing wrong with him and that they were being overprotective and worrying over nothing...that was about 4 months ago

my mate and I are going to go to his house tomorrow evening for an "intervention" kind of thing

have any of you been involved in anything like this before?? anyone know about interventions?? should we be kind with him, or should we be tough?? have any of you ever known anyone who has faced this??

i deal with depression every day of my life, was diagnosed with it about 2 years ago and although i have my bad days, mostly my medication is keeping me level - for me personally, it was actually a load off my mind to be able to put a name to what was going on in my head, and to be told that with medication and deep soul searching i can can overcome it - which seems to be working for me

i feel so MAD about this....so mad with his parents evidently ready to give up on him...BUT I'M NOT!!! i'm thinking of going there and facing him harshly, dragging him out of his house kicking and screaming and making him talk to me, make him tell me his worries and make him "get it out"

sorry if what i've written hurts anyone, and sorry if its garbled...i'm crying right now - i'm feeling so many different emotions...but i'm positive about the path i'm going to take, that is, confronting him and being there every day until he gets sick of seeing me (so to speak)

anyone have any thoughts that may be able to steer me in the right direction?? anyone experienced this or read any books??

if you feel it is too private, please feel free to PM me...i'll be loggin in from work tomorrow to read any thoughts anyone may have

cheers

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"So you take me for what I am...a psychopathic, schizophrenic, serial-killing, femme fatale?"

Oh wow N7... I know a little about this and there are no easy answers… the fact that he has admitted a desire to commit suicide is a cry for help though …His parents need to realize he told them because he needs their help to get the help he is too afraid to seek on his own… If they forced him to see a doctor once, they may be able to again and it is very important that they talk to the doctor too and tell him/her exactly what has been going on so they know the right questions to ask and are not fooled into thinking he is okay which is what it sounds like might have happened last time.

It’s possible you may just have to play this by ear so to speak and go with your “gut reaction” when you see him. Letting him know some of the hell you have been through might give him hope and give him the nudge he needs to open up to you about his own hell which is a positive step in the right direction. He has to know that someone cares and that he is not alone…

I hope he eventually realizes what a good friend he has in you and I wish you the best of luck dealing with this…

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I have a friend that has some kind of depression that he just doesn't seem to shake. He's been having panic attacks ever since he was like 17 (he's 27 now) and he can't travel by bus or train or go to a cinema and he has next to zero self esteem. He's also been seeing a shrink for some time now. So I know a little bit about this kind of thing too.

I agree with Caitlyn. This guy is really crying out for help. In my opinion I think it's very important to show emotions. I don't know this guy so I don't really know how to handle this speicific situation. But if my friend said he was going to commit suicide I would beat the living crap out of him. Then I would tell him I loved him and tell him all the good things about him. Then I would make him do stuff with me - like you said, never leaving the guy alone for a second. And then I would perhaps - depending on the situation and his condition - if nothing else worked convince him to check into a mental hospital. The most important thing is to show him that you really care and that you are pissed off by his behaviour.

I don't think that he really wants to commit suicide. I think it's a cry for help. But you never know and it's pretty obvious that he's not well and that he needs help. Find out what's bothering him. Drag it out of him. Beat it out of him. Then force him to deal with it and help him do it. And tell him to think about his mother.

One time when I was young and stupid and did some drugs I felt terrible afterwards. The aftereffects of this drug made me paranoid and extremely filled with anxiety. I just wanted to die and thought that no one in the whole world loved me. Except for mom. And that stopped me. That I couldn't hurt my mom. Now, this was only in my mind because of the drugs, but explain to this guy who much he will hurt people like his mother if he commits suicide. Explain that his mother will lose her little boy - because that is how mothers sees their sons all life - if he does it. Make him aware of the consequences. Arrange "a funeral". Confront him with all his friends and family.

Good luck!

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The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".

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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.

I feel so MAD about this....so mad with his parents evidently ready to give up on him...BUT I'M NOT!!! i'm thinking of going there and facing him harshly, dragging him out of his house kicking and screaming and making him talk to me, make him tell me his worries and make him "get it out."

I have to address this issue at a bit of length because I have and still have serious clinical depression with anxiety. And after having the condition for more than half my life, I think I have a right to speak out on it.

And I have to tell you about your plan of attack:

No, no, NO! Do not do that.
That will make him feel worse.

I know, because I suffer from serious depression, and still do, and one time someone yelled and screamed at me like you are describing, and it only made me feel worse. Making someone feel like they're being selfish and inconsiderate when they have a legitimate problem is the last thing you want to do.

Depression affects over 10 million people a year, and it is a legitimate medical condition. People who suffer are NOT crazy, they are NOT "lazy bums who can't work," and they are NOT to be classified as 'nuts." They have a problem and they need help, immediately.

Sometimes, religious, societal and cultural stresses always tell us to "shut up and deal with it," "Be a man and not a sissy," and this is just WRONG. How can someone deal with a problem they can't control??? Yet society seems to think we are all supermen who can juggle 10 things on one finger and still have enough time to do the dishes and send the kids to soccer practice.

High stress world and job=depression.

Look at the 34,000 suicides they had in Japan last year, ALL from stress and presure to perform. What does that tell you about the shape of the world and it's nastiness?

Your best bet?

Go to your friend,
and be gentle with him. Let HIM talk it out, and let HIM do the talking. Don't second guess him and DON'T put words in his mouth. Urge him to get medical help, and show him you care.

This will be a factor in determining how when and if he seeks help. Knowing he has someone in his corner is a big plus, and I agree with Pidd; go out and do things with him and show him how much he means to you, and how much you and the others would miss him.

He is not being selfish, he is crying for help. And I surely hope he gets the help so he can get on his feet again and lead a good life like he had before. I hope I could help.

D.D.

Dear n7, This may be a bit late as you may have aready seen your friend, there has been alot of good advice given but I will put my 2 cents in.

Working with people with mental illness has been my job for 30 years. Depression is a curable illness for some and one that can be managed quite well. Never ever think that your friend or any one who says that they want to commit suicide won't do it, take it very seriously, He needs help to stay alive so that he can have his illness treated, that may be in hospital or if there is a community mental health team that could care for him.

He needs to be treared with compassion and love and tell him how much you will miss him if he isn't here. Also tell him that he could never convince you that he would be better off dead, there is always some sort of solution but he just can't see it because his level of depression is clouding his thinking.

As for his parents they need help olso if they think it is ok for him to kill himself.

What ever treatment he is having now is not working so it needs to be changed, suicide is not the answer.

Good luck, depression must always taken seriously as people die from it every day, as you know depression isn't something you bring on yourself, I have never met anyone with depression that wanted to feel that way.

My thoughts are with you and your friend

I can say I have been in an almost identical position but I was the suicidal one not the savour. That is what the person needs, he needs a friendship and to be reassured of his good qualities and not of his faults, this is what saved me, just a couple of friends. It only takes one person to save a soul. Don’t ever try and tell someone what you think that they want to hear because they will know and they will only distrust you. Tell him the truth. Especially of his successes. Also never let them go, never just say fine or get over it, never give up, always persist everyone has a point where they break and will listen and as long as you remember that then you know that you must persist to make them listen, because he will want you to give up, but never do that, That’s the most important piece of advice to listen to.My girlfriend was at the same point once apon a time where death was the only way from depression, and although there is still a little way to go, by showing her what life can be and how things do get better, show them the light before the darkness.Sometimes you have to be curel to be kind, that is a lie only be kind, no matter how thin your patience goes, be kind and be considerate.So I am extremely experienced in this. I do not speak as a professional but only as a person who has done his fair share to help people. Just be strong not only for your friend but also to yourself. You can win. You can beat depression, it might be a mental and emotional condition, but it isn’t incurable.I hope this doesn’t come too late but no matter what happens go on and go for it, you can only lose if you give up, but by keeping strong and persisting, persisting and persisting you will do it.

You never fail to astound me, Naisy. In a good way. Really.

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www.esotericrabbit.com

how is that? Remember your the smart one

Naisy you are so right never give up as I have seen a lot of people get well, People with depression I beleive have great strength they have a lot of emotional pain to endure,

I agree never give up on anyone I never have and at times while I was working for a health service, mind you people critisised me for it. It never worried me, treat the person like a family member, you would never give up on a family member.

You are so emotionally mature yes always be honest, always.

Nice to meet you

That doesnt work for me, i dont give too much for family, my friends are the ones that kept me alive, not my family.

SB, Jo, Nat, Carissa are the ones that motivate me for life.

thank you all so much for your replies...you have truly inspired me...i will never give up

and Naisy, thanks for sharing

hugs to you all

I have been depressed but not because of clinical reasons, like as if I couldn't explain why I was depressed. I knew exactly why I was depressed and the doctor I went to said I was healthy but could use someone to talk to. I had really bad insomnia that I had to take medication for, but all the time I knew why I was feeling like ****, which made it easier for me to get out of it. I constantly told myself "It's not getting any worse than this. You've reached the bottom. Only better things lie before you." And even though it sounds like such a cliché, that really helped me, knowing that I had the worst **** behind me. But if that is going to help, first you need to know where the problem is. That's the problem with n7o9's friend, I guess.

These things are so hard.

Once again, a rant about human feelings and the vulnerability of people, and those who can't understand.

One thing people need to know is that people with depression have limits that they cannot rise above, and that it's not their fault.

This is what the public needs to know first and
foremost with depression-do NOT push people's buttons. You may be sorry you did. A lot of these people are walking timebombs that could wind up hurting you, themselves, or someone else they love w\o realizing they've done it. Do NOT antagonize anyone with this condition. I speak from experience, and I will leave it at that.

Again, I cannot stress enough the following thing:

Job stress-how many people have gone off physically
on their bosses or another co-worker because that person kept riding and riding them until they blew up? How many times have people on purposely rode someone just to see them 'spaz out' or 'go ape sh*t?'
You get what you pay for. Don't tease people if you don't want a problem. Respect, don't reject...

If CEO's and high level employees realized that people are flesh and bone, instead of robots who can put out 20,000 copies of a magazine in an hour, maybe this wouldn't happen. I'm not going to say that on the job violence is right, but being a former office worker, and seeing the way some of these people get treated, all I can say is that some people ask for it.

I quit my job because I was burning out, I bailed out before it got worse, but I have seen people who have gone off, and it's NOT pretty.

But since most people see human feelings as a game, and see the afflicted as a subject of entertainment and endless productivity, I doubt we'll ever see society letting up on people, and we will probably see more of the types of things that have made the papers in recent years.

And on that note, I think that it's time that SOCIETY start taking IT'S responsibility for the hand in the things they create, as well as listening to, and not criticizing, people who function at a lesser capacity than all the Mr. and Mrs. perfects who permeate our society at large.

Listen to someone the next time they have a problem, don't push them away. God only knows what you may be stopping, or how you may be helping someone.

No man is an island, and no man is w\o problems, people need to see this.

Not their fault maybe, but the fact remains they can change it, they can rise above it, it just sometimes requires a showing of the path to do it. Its not impossible.

Like every bomb it can be defused if done right.

You once again make it sound like they all do it rather then a few, all genralisations are dangerous (including this one)

Maybe this is what is misguiding your judgement

utter cr@p, some people yes. Most??? No way.

Thats the biggest bull ive ever heard, its a great suggestion in theory but in reality if a person isnt interested in hearing someone elses problem and then makes themselves listen, they arent going to help , if anything majority of the time, its only going to messs things up worse. Only help if you interested in helping not because you "have to" but because you "want to"

Not enough time to reply my full length (ive already attempted this post about three times)

Hmmm... Naisy, if a friend needs your help you'll have to help that friend, right? If you don't feel like it, then what kind of a friend are you?

You're right about one thing though. If a person is depressed the most important thing is that the person wants to get out of it himself and is ready to work hard for it. If that is not the case, it's impossible to help that person. You can try to motiviate him but in the end it's all up to him. I do take people with unhealthy souls as serious as people with unhealthy bodies. But if someone sat around all day for months complaining about the ache in the leg without any interest of going to the doctor or doing some exercise to ease the pain, I would stop encouraging that person after a while. Some people are satisfied with the people around them feeling sorry for them instead of ever going to the bottom with the real problem. That makes me mad. It's like they are afraid of what will happen after they get out of their depression, like that they are going to lose their identity. And that's when I think a real good kick in the ass can be good.

Alright Naisy, front and center,
and button that *&^%n' shirt:

I am so sick and tired of people like you whoprobably (and I said probably) have NO experience with depression trying to analyze and reject the thoughts and opinions of those of us who DO have it. You WILL hear me on this one.

I have depression and have been treated for it as well as anxiety. I tried killing myself one night but backed out because I realized it was wrong. I am in councelling, and I take Lithium Carbonate, Zoloft, and also Klonopin for small but potent epileptic seizures. 18 years worth since I was 20. Almost half my fuc*in' life.

Don't tell me that I'm full of bull, and that listening dosen't help: listening saved my life, as well as the proper assessment of my condition and the medication that came with it. In fact, if you don't know about the condition first hand, just shut up and let someone who has been there tell you about it, OK?

You say people who force themselves to listen to their friends' problems are contra-productive, and that it won't help the afflicted. Well if you won't listen, then you aren't a friend at all, are you?

You say I generalize on the job assault and
murder from depression and those who fail
to realize it? Well I advise you to see the HBO special "Murder On The Job" and know that it is anything BUT a generalization. It's a FACT.

Stress CAN kill.

I SAW someone go off on my boss, and it wasn't pretty. And it also wasn't pretty when the police handled him either. Both wound up hospitalized.

And FYI I quit my office job because I was burning out also, as well as the fear of being the next victim of aggravated assault like my boss was the day I saw it happen. And I developed severe hypertension as well as anxiety from the job as well as the new CEO who was worse than the last.

Am I a "quitter" because I left a job that gave me severe hypertension and stress? Am I a quitter because I lowered my blood pressure and added years to my life with a job that isn't as stressful?

No I am not, but you'll have to excuse me for lacking the native talent of people who live off stress just to prove how tough they are.....I saved my life, and if you call that a "misguided judgement," then so be it. You see me as a loser, so again, we'll do it your way, OK?

I agree with you that some people help out more than others, but I feel you're dismissing some very important things here, most importantly the power of listening. A family member or a friend, it dosen't matter where the support comes from, as long as it comes. No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted.

But you do it your way, OK?

Yeah, a good swift kick is needed sometimes,
but make sure that ALL other avenues are exhausted first. LISTEN, IDENTIFY, and ASSESS. And if all else fails, there's 911 and professional help available.

It's still not enough for you that I have personal experience with suicide threats and attempts, depression and professional medical treatment including medication?

Sorry to hear that, but based on your denial and subsequent "knowledge" of depression (probably a bum's rush of drunken wisdom because you pretend to care,) I'll let you go and you can think that I don't know anything because YOU say I don't.

Go ahead and keep ignoring the problem and telling afflicted people they know nothing. It's people like YOU who do more worse than good.

n7of9 how is your friend doing now?

No experience in....BWAHAHAHA you little idiot ok I never like to go into much detail on the net but here is just a small insight of my life, i have been through more and seen more **** in my lifetime of 18 years. I have in the past and am currently going through serious depression where nothing is really stopping me from committing sucide, ive attempted twice, twice failed but only through circumstances i couldnt control. Ive seen people bash people for no reason other then to show their power, ive seen peoples lives destroyed by stuff they think is a great "buzz". Ive seen blood and I have stopped it. Ive stopped suicides and never once EVER have I failed in stopping a person from suicide or from depression (and i dont use fancy drugs either). A few times Ive failed with keeping people off drugs but thats only because Ive got the law to take into consideration. Ive seen rapings, Ive heard screams. Hardly a night goes by where I have a full nights sleep. So you want to say Ive not had any experience in analising, your depression is nothing but a state of mind which can be altered by the influence of the heart and vision, so dont give me any bull**** I dont know what im talking about because the difference between me and you, you havent been out of depression long enough to be able to see the difference or the weaknesses and strengths of it.

You WILL hear me on this one.

I will hear you if i WANT to, dont you start giving me orders ok?

I have depression and have been treated for it as well as anxiety. I tried killing myself one night but backed out because I realized it was wrong. I am in councelling, and I take Lithium Carbonate, Zoloft, and also Klonopin for small but potent epileptic seizures. 18 years worth since I was 20. Almost half my fuc*in' life.

A sad story and I do understand.

Don't tell me that I'm full of bull, and that listening dosen't help: listening saved my life, as well as the proper assessment of my condition and the medication that came with it. In fact, if you don't know about the condition first hand, just shut up and let someone who has been there tell you about it, OK?

So maybe instead of making assumptions about what I have experienced maybe you should ask before putting your foot in your mouth. I didnt say listening doesnt help, I said if someone doesnt WANT to listen it wont help, listening does help but only to a degree its the responces from that listening that will save lives.

You say people who force themselves to listen to their friends' problems are contra-productive, and that it won't help the afflicted. Well if you won't listen, then you aren't a friend at all, are you?

Thats true but the fact is people are pretenders, some people pretend to be friends, that was what my comment was referring to.

Stress CAN kill.

No joke

Am I a "quitter" because I left a job that gave me severe hypertension and stress? Am I a quitter because I lowered my blood pressure and added years to my life with a job that isn't as stressful?

No your not a quitter, but maybe your not a good fighter, nothing wrong with being passive but if your being realistic the facts are your quit because you saw that as your best option, no your not a quitter but neither are you a fighter.

No I am not, but you'll have to excuse me for lacking the native

I saved my life, and if you call that a "misguided judgement," then so be it.

I didnt say your act was misguided judgement, i said your view is probably misguided

No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted.

Maybe you should live in my world for a day.

Yeah, a good swift kick is needed sometimes,
but make sure that ALL other avenues are exhausted first. LISTEN, IDENTIFY, and ASSESS. And if all else fails, there's 911 and professional help available.

Also I dont know what you got the need to go into that for.

[quote]It's still not enough for you that I have personal experience with suicide threats and attempts, depression and professional medical treatment including medication?
[quote]

Its still not enough that Ive had all that and more for you? with the exception of medication.

(probably a bum's rush of drunken wisdom because you pretend to care,)

HOW ****ING DARE YOU? I CARE YOU PIECE OF ****, ITS ALL IM GOOD FOR, CARING, I CARE FOR PEOPLE WITH MY HEART NOT MY MIND OR TO WIN SOME POPULARITY CONTEST, I DO NOT PUT MY LIFE ON THE LINE TO BE A WANNABE HERO, I DO IT BECAUSE I BELIEVE I CAN HELP AND GOD AS MY WITNESS I DO HELP, IF YOU WANT I CAN ARRANGE FOR JUST SOME OF THE PEOPLE TO TELL YOU .

I'll let you go and you can think that I don't know anything because YOU say I don't.

Never did i say, you knew nothing, i believe you know alot but i also belive your judgement is clouded.

It's people like YOU who do more worse than good.

Ill agree with you when I fail, im not being cocky, im stating "fact" never have I found a person who has been beyond help, whether they belive it or not. Dont you ever accuse me of being a destructive person because that is something your basing on spite not fact.

I can vouch for Naisy in terms of his caring for people despite having to live the psychosis of the world he happens to inhabit everyday of his life. It is really quite selfless.

Hey Naisy, what was all that about if the person had read back they would have known that you have experienced depression and sadly feelings of suicide,
I am glad that you failed at suicide although I really don't like to rate suicide as success or failure, I am glad you are still alive.
You are a wise person for one so young and seen and experienced enough hurtful things for anyone.
Hope life is good for you as we all deserve a good life unconditionally.

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Health is the greatest gift, contentment the greatest wealth, faithfulness the best relationship.
Buddha