The Heisman Trophy, Collegiate Rules, and Capitalism
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I really want to respond to both your post and Sedai's right now, but I know I shouldn't. However, Yoda, please give me a list of the terms you want defined when I do reply, as that would be helpful.
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"This is that human freedom, which all boast that they possess, and which consists solely in the fact, that men are conscious of their own desire, but are ignorant of the causes whereby that desire has been determined." -Baruch Spinoza
"This is that human freedom, which all boast that they possess, and which consists solely in the fact, that men are conscious of their own desire, but are ignorant of the causes whereby that desire has been determined." -Baruch Spinoza
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The better question is: in what kind of society is it not necessary to completely extricate yourself from mainstream society in order to be free?
No, the better question has already been asked and answered: how do you escape from capitalism? Small lines of flight, obviously.
This is a rhetorical question, obviously, and it's not one that makes sense unless you use a really twisted definition of the word "free."
hey guys, i didn't realize this was a thread topic, i just thought it was an exchange in the shoutbox.
However, while i haven't read through the thread start to finish, i did think there is a Documentary that you may find adresses PN query.
Off the Grid: Life on the Mesa (2007)
from http://www.coolhunting.com
A two-year project, " Off the Grid: Life on the Mesa" is a 64-minute documentary that looks at a small, hardscrabble community in the New Mexico desert of denizens who have chosen a life of independence outside the normal conformities and boundaries of modern society.
It's a study of the runaways, vets and voluntary outcasts who live there and what happens when a community removes itself from mainstream civilization. Rather than becoming uncivilized, instead it enforces its own sense of law and order, right and wrong. When confronted with a thief in their midst, the well-armed and opinionated citizenry must grapple with instilling ad-hoc law and order in which justice is served while humanity is preserved.
It's a study of the runaways, vets and voluntary outcasts who live there and what happens when a community removes itself from mainstream civilization. Rather than becoming uncivilized, instead it enforces its own sense of law and order, right and wrong. When confronted with a thief in their midst, the well-armed and opinionated citizenry must grapple with instilling ad-hoc law and order in which justice is served while humanity is preserved.
http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title...e_on_the_mesa/
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"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo.
"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo.
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I have no idea what you guys are talking about. You got it so abstract it is practically devoid of meaning. How can you be against capitalism without proposing an alternative?
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It reminds me of a toilet paper on the trees
- Paula
It reminds me of a toilet paper on the trees
- Paula
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I have no idea what is happening either, other than I somehow started a 6 page discussion on capitalism via a Heisman Trophy shoutbox comment (which is pretty awesome).
This is makes the most sense out of anything I've read in here, and I pose the same question as Yoda. Why is the above wrong?
Originally Posted by Yoda
There are a number of objections I can summarize if necessary, but for now let's just focus on the most important one: capitalism does not force you to participate. Being offered money, or a product, doesn't actually force you to accept either, and thus you are still "free." Why is this wrong?
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If I had a dollar for every existential crisis I've ever had, does money really even matter?
If I had a dollar for every existential crisis I've ever had, does money really even matter?
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Yeah, there's a reason they have "athletic scholarships." I know there are exceptions, but I think the word "most" is pretty accurate there.
I dunno how to fix the system; you can't have it be a financial free-for-all, but as it is now it's clearly not regulated effectively, and there's a good chance it simply can't be. As messed up as it is now, there's an argument to be made that there's no superior alternative.
I dunno how to fix the system; you can't have it be a financial free-for-all, but as it is now it's clearly not regulated effectively, and there's a good chance it simply can't be. As messed up as it is now, there's an argument to be made that there's no superior alternative.
To first qualify for this though, he still was still required to be accepted through regular admissions (80% average from grade 9-13).
I always chuckle a little bit when the Vanier Cup is on TV and as the players are being introduced comen out of the Tunnel the QB is pre-med, OL are kinesiology , Commerce or whatever.
The finances of Secondary Education are completely different of course, tuitions are a fraction of what they are your way, as they are subsidized heavily through our tax structure, and bursaries from the alma mater.
The system i would propose for the major Collegiate sports stateside is with the understanding that for all intents and purposes it acts as the developmental league for the NBA and the NFL and to a lesser degree MLB and a much lesser degree the NHL.
Recruit players now as they do with a few stipulations. Players are eligible to compete from the ages of 18-22. During this time they are not required to attend classes (thus not filling a seat, better used on a Student wishing to complete their degree) Also it allows the athlete to work a part-time gig if he so chooses.
Grants shall be available to all players to pay for housing while in the program.
If the player enters the draft before the Season in which they would turn 22, 20% of their signing bonus is sent back to the school as a transfer payment and held in trust for a term not to exceed 5 years unless there is a involuntary military draft , in which case time in service will be credited back in full.
If a player completes his years of collegiate eligibility, He has a 5 year window to attend the University with teh tuition payments to be paid out of the transfer payment fund.
Furthermore A percentage of swag sales bearing the players Number will be paid to the student on a quarterly basis.
hows that sound MoFo's?
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I have no idea what you guys are talking about. You got it so abstract it is practically devoid of meaning. How can you be against capitalism without proposing an alternative?
Get it?
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It is a small line of flight after all. Apathy is the only form of authentic action you feel you can take, so you take it with all its glory, however minimal.
I don't buy that changing our ways from a Capitalistic society could lead us back to the dark ages or The Third Reich, that just sounds like more of the typical "fear mongering" that gets used everyday to keep us entrenched in the failing system we're in now. And it is a failing system, unless you're one of the ones with a big boatload of cash. You may not see it now, but you will someday. I can see the future.
Many countries have different forms of government and Capitalism is not their driving force and they function just fine. Many of these countries have been around far longer than the good ole U.S. of A too.
Many countries have different forms of government and Capitalism is not their driving force and they function just fine. Many of these countries have been around far longer than the good ole U.S. of A too.
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We are both the source of the problem and the solution, yet we do not see ourselves in this light...
We are both the source of the problem and the solution, yet we do not see ourselves in this light...
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Which ones? I can't think of any governments that have been around longer than us. Canada and Great Britain have more socialism than us (we have it also), but capitalism exists in those countries also. No country in the world, including us, has a completely free unregulated capitalistic structure. That's why our government works to the extent it does and why the supposedly pure communism in North Korea is such a complete failure. Ideologically pure ecconomic models don't work in the real world.
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Sure, Capitalism is everywhere, but there are many countries that use it much differently than we do.
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I don't buy that changing our ways from a Capitalistic society could lead us back to the dark ages or The Third Reich, that just sounds like more of the typical "fear mongering" that gets used everyday to keep us entrenched in the failing system we're in now.
And it is a failing system, unless you're one of the ones with a big boatload of cash. You may not see it now, but you will someday.
I can see the future.
Many countries have different forms of government and Capitalism is not their driving force and they function just fine. Many of these countries have been around far longer than the good ole U.S. of A too.
Another thing worth considering: a given country being less capitalistic doesn't necessarily mean much as long as other countries stay capitalistic, because there's still a degree to which it can trade with others and benefit from the innovations that take place in freer nations. So there's probably a degree to which less capitalistic societies look a lot more plausible and sustainable than they are as long as they remain in the minority.
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The other statements in your last post strike me as inaccurate or over-simplified, but I just cannot let this following misnomer stand:
North Korea is not pure communism in any way, size, shape, or form. Maybe if you hadn't used the worth "pure" or capitalized the C or distanced yourself more with the "supposedly". If you want a model of a failed Communist state, please at least cite early U.S.S.R.
All in all, this is not about Communism, but I will bring it up, since it's clear that you, as well as others I can imagine, will request an "alternative". I do think John McClane has already made it sufficiently clear why there can be no alternative: Capitalism is too fluid in its appropriation of productivity.
As for PW's suggestion of fear mongering, I would agree, except that the philosopher who proposed it is the same one who formulated Capitalism's greatest critique. Then again... maybe he's in on it, eh?
the supposedly pure communism in North Korea is such a complete failure
All in all, this is not about Communism, but I will bring it up, since it's clear that you, as well as others I can imagine, will request an "alternative". I do think John McClane has already made it sufficiently clear why there can be no alternative: Capitalism is too fluid in its appropriation of productivity.
As for PW's suggestion of fear mongering, I would agree, except that the philosopher who proposed it is the same one who formulated Capitalism's greatest critique. Then again... maybe he's in on it, eh?
most of them would never have gotten to college if the weren't athletes.
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"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and like it, never really care for anything else thereafter." - Ernest Hemingway
"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and like it, never really care for anything else thereafter." - Ernest Hemingway
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