Coronavirus

Rogan was in the news recently because he put Dr. Sanjay Gupta on the spot over Gupta's network (CNN) making misleading reports about Rogan taking a drug that he had a doctor's prescription for - saying Rogan was taking horse drugs without acknowledging that it is commonly prescribed for humans as well.

Ivermectin is prescribed to treat parasitic infections.

SARS-CoV-2 is not a parasite.

I think the point is the media made it sound like Rogan obtained the drug somehow and just swallowed a potentially dangerous substance not intended for humans because he was following some rumors he heard.

But he claimed the drug was prescribed for him by his doctor.

So I can understand his feeling that he was slandered by CNN as they painted a picture of him being reckless, a danger to himself, naïve and stupid (or insane or suicidal as that's what it would take or someone to just swallow unknown animal drugs based on rumors) by ingesting a chemical not meant for humans when he claims he was under a doctor's care who prescribed the drug.

It seems to be another case of media bias intended to publicly smear an individual they don't like by either not fully investigating a story or omitting pertinent facts... and present such slander as a news report.

I don't doubt it. Someone of Rogan's wealth and resources can find a doctor to prescribe him just about anything he wanted.


I think that "naive and stupid" would suffice. I don't watch CNN though.


I think that the pertinent facts here are that ivermectin is a medication prescribed for parasitic infections and that SARS-CoV-2 is not a parasite. I think these facts speak for themselves. But there's also the other facts about Rogan's public statements throughout the pandemic, well before his own infection, that throw his own personal biases into question. "I'm not a respectable source of information." Joe Rogan said that when challenged directly by Fauci over Joe's comments on masks and the vaccine. I happen to agree with him. Joe Rogan is not a respectable source of information. I wonder why Rogan didn't say this to Aaron Rodgers when he called for advice. Maybe because Joe Rogan is also a duplicitous weasel who knows he can't refute the facts and tucks tail as soon as anyone who knows the facts calls him out on it.

You're making several points here, Jinn, and I don't disagree with most of them.

(And I admit I don't know enough about Rogan, his degree of knowledge or his reputation to judge his validity. To me he's only a name and I have no idea what his stances or motives are.)

But I have to question the inference that a medical doctor would prescribe an animal drug to a human (which would be potentially dangerous) just for some extra money or by being "starstruck" - especially by a relative 8th tier "celebrity" like Rogan.

Of course there are corrupt & criminal people (including doctors), but it's unlikely a medical doctor would risk their career, reputation or possibly freedom (if criminal charges resulted) just to make money from a celebrity when such behavior could hurt or kill their patient.

But, then again there was Michael Jackson's doctor who prescribed a dangerous drug for the wrong purposes (and knew he was administering it wrongly for sleep when it was a drug intended for surgical uses)... and he paid the price, which might serve as a warning to other doctors.

Ivermectin is not exclusively an "animal drug". If you want to take issue with those characterizing it as such, then that's fine. I'd only heard a few stories about some people who were buying the actual animal medication - at animal doses - which certainly would have been dangerous, and Rogan would have a right to push back on that characterization. However, I'm also aware that Joe Rogan was not prepared to accept a doctor's advice regarding ivermectine, because he and a number of his guests have been touting it for several months (and hydroxychloriquine before that). I have no doubt that Rogan asked for his ivermectin prescription based on his long-standing support for its use. But all of that isn't as important as pointing out how this medication functions, even in humans. For example, penicillin is an essential medication but it probably shouldn't be used to treat diabetes.

However obscure Joe Rogan is around these parts, he's a much higher-tier star that you give him credit for. He has the most popular podcast in the world, with downloads that easily eclipse the nightly ratings of the most-watched cable news shows. Spotify paid him 50 million dollars for a reason. He's extremely influential.


I don't think we have to look any further than the opioid crises to see that there is a sizable minority of medical doctors who are willing to allow money to override their concerns over patient safety. I don't think that Rogan was even in danger of his prescribed ivermectin, but his constant message that people should choose a potential covid infection instead of vaccination is dangerous and I can't think of very many more prominent media voices, with a comparable audience, that's pushed vaccine hesitancy, based more on 'gubmint' paranoia than practical health risks, than Joe Rogan at the moment.

Rodgers vaccinated teammate, Davante Adams and defensive co-coordinator Joe Barry, both caught covid a week earlier. Earlier in the year D Line coach, also vaccinated, Jerry Montgomery tested positive.They probably should not have caught it but they did. Rodgers was being tested daily before entering the teams facilities. The other three were tested once every two weeks. Who posed a bigger threat? Who was more likely to be walking around the facilities with covid? They caught Aaron right away. Davante, Joe and Jerry had a window of 13 days where they could have been spreading it. The vaccinated also do not need to wear masks in the facility, going against CDC guidelines.

"The newly released report showing that vaccinated people can still be superspreaders drove the recent decision by the CDC to once again recommend masks for vaccinated people indoors where case counts are high or substantial.
The viral load of vaccinated people with breakthrough cases is the same as in unvaccinated people, the CDC said Friday."
"High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus,” CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said in a statement. “This finding is concerning and was a pivotal discovery leading to CDC’s updated mask recommendation. The masking recommendation was updated to ensure the vaccinated public would not unknowingly transmit virus to others, including their unvaccinated or immunocompromised loved ones.” https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cd...-19/ar-AAML2bE

First time I pulled a hamstring I asked a few guys what they did when they pulled their hammy. I think that's normal to ask somebody who went through something what it was like and what they did. A Dr. can tell you what to expect but unless they had it they really don't know what it's like. So he reaches out to Joe Rogan to see what Rogan did to get rid of the virus in two days and Rogan told him. That's insane? They both have big time money that affords them the ability to have medical teams looking out for them. Both medical teams put them on stuff they thought was best for them. Rogan was covid free in two days so whatever his Dr.'s recommended worked pretty well. Aaron said yesterday on McAfee that he is feeling much better and hopes to play Sunday. Sounds like it worked for him as well. That's good, right?

Is he lying? Maybe, but so what and who cares? He's a QB in the NFL, that's it. Sounds like you didn't listen to the McAfee show, or at least not all of it, which I can understand as it was long, where Rodgers said he was allergic to some of the ingredients in the Moderna and Pfizer vaccine and the J & J had just been pulled so he looked for other alternatives. Not to mention he's one of those people who did have some long term concerns over the vaccine especially as to how it relates to fertility. At this point if you aren't vaccinated you probably won't be influenced by Joe Rogan or Aaron Rodgers vaccination status. The NFL does not make being vaccinated mandatory to play. His teammates, the people who sign his checks and the NFL all knew he wasn't vaccinated.

Never heard of Rogan, but Rodgers is a famous QB in the NFL. Highly respected, blah, blah, blah.

Engaged to young movie star Shailene Woodley & I wonder if she’s having second thoughts.

__________________
I’m here only on Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays. That’s why I’m here now.

I never heard of Shailene Who?

Talented actress.

Citizen has seen The Descendants.

__________________
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. - John Wooden
My IMDb page

I have, good film too.

Shailene looks so much better with long hair as she had in the movie. She keeps cutting it short for some unknown reason.

Not sure what the point of any of this is. It ignores the central issue that people are taking issue with Rodgers, including from fellow players, which is that he was not honest about his vaccination status, and obviously he has not been honest about his not being honest about his status. 94% of the league is vaccinated, but the rules don't apply to a star like Rodgers. Was Rodgers being tested daily? I haven't seen that. Because that's what they do for players that haven't been vaccinated. The controversy here is that the league were under the impression that he was. (Maybe the league's lying.) Rodgers does not appear to have been complying with other rules involving unvaccinated players either. What's clear is that Rodgers was deliberately trying to obscure his status from the league and the public.

As for breakthrough cases, among the vaccinated these occur about 10% among those exposed to the delta (specifically) strain of the virus. The answer to the question of "who was more likely to be walking around the facilities with covid?" is pretty clear, because the percentage of unvaccinated people exposed to delta leading to infection is far higher than a breakthrough case. The notion (which Capt Steel also mentioned) that the vaccinated are equal (or greater!) spreaders for the disease is easily debunkable. Overall, this story has tapped into a giant well of covid misinformation that seriously needs to be corrected.

It's insane if that's what happened, because preventing the infection requires a different regimen than treating an infection, and Rodgers was asking for advice to prevent, or be "immunized" from, infection, which is not something that Rogan can claim to have experienced himself. I was under the impression, though, that this phone call took place around June, before Rogan's infection, back when Rogan was bragging about how his own regimen was providing a strong enough immune system to resist infection (turned out not quite). So, yes, in terms of a recently emerged pandemic virus which has been challenging our highest-qualified virologists, asking Joe Rogan for his medical opinion, and even staking your career on this decision, is pretty f***n insane.

There's no evidence of Rogan's condition outside of his own word, which isn't exactly sterling at this point. But you're also missing the most crucial aspect of his own words. Rogan had a "kitchen sink" treatment, including prednisone, monoclonal antibodies and an array of vitamin drips. Was this treatment regimen more effective than a vaccine would have been? And how much did Big Pharma profit from these expensive treatments as opposed to a free vaccine? Because lest we forget, the entire premise of both Rogan and Rodgers' protest here is to argue that there is a viable alternative to taking a suspicious vaccine.

Whether Rodgers plays or not will have more to do with whether the league allows him, not his health. But again it's a canard. Rodgers has been taking the same regimen of steroids, antibiotics, vitamin drips and whatever else. None of this proves anything about whether or not he'd have been better off just taking the vaccine. Breakthrough cases very rarely (only among the most immunocompromised) require such expensive medical treatment. This is all in service of maintaining, and tacitly promoting, rationals for vaccine hesitancy.

As I said, "maybe not lying, but stupid". And you care, obviously, because you're here defending him. And I care because I'm calling him out. Why do I care? Because Rodgers and Rogan are promoting one of our current society's more existential metastasizing epistemic tumors.

Yeah, best not to mention that.

This is clearly not true, or else everyone else is lying.

While I agree with most of the above, I do want to point out Rodgers has no history of Steroid use, nor any hint of it. *
I know, low hanging fruit and all that but still….

I'm referring to those steroids used to treat pneumonia, such as prednisone and others. These are common and effective treatments used in covid cases. I'm not talking about anabolic steroids used by bodybuilders.

It looks like the NFL were more or less aware of Rodgers' status, but are claiming to be unaware that Rodgers was not complying with their unvaccinated protocols - wearing masks, travelling separately - that players, such as Kirk Cousins, who have been more honest about their unvaccinated status, have had to adhere to. Rodgers just wanted to have it both ways.

Ah, gotcha. My bad. Carry on

Which fellow players, on his team, those most affected by his choices, are having an issue? I follow GB football pretty close and haven't heard a thing from anybody inside the locker room or in the facility. I know former players, local and national media are criticizing him but whatever. That's just noise. Maybe some players in the locker room are upset but if they are, they're smart enough to keep their mouths shut about the one guy who gives them the best chance to win a title. Being one of the best players in the NFL does come with some perks, always has.

NFL did an investigation and fined Aaron $15,000 for not following a rule (you know what he did, right?) If the rules didn't apply they wouldn't have fined him. They found he did nothing wrong while at the facility.

Have you heard about Kirk Cousins violating the NFL's covid policy all year (until this week, weird?) He's unvaccinated and is supposed to be masked at press conferences. Hardly a star yet unpunished. It's all window dressing. Unfortunately, the Vikings won't let me post the video here but it's on you tube. Kirk Cousins Presser 2021.

That's what they (NFL) are supposed to do with unvaccinated players. Rodgers says he was tested daily. If he recovers and is able to play he won't have to undergo daily testing for 90 days.

No he wasn't. Not from the league. Rodgers informed the league last summer that he was doing treatments to raise his immune system. The NFL rejected those treatments as being immunized. Rodgers appealed their decision and lost. The league was well aware of what Rodgers was doing. The only rule Rodgers broke, apparently (it's why he was fined), is for going to a Halloween party with unmasked people. That's it. The NFL is known for being a little shady. Doing whatever it takes to protect their image is kind of their "thing." It's why they have some of these stupid protocols in the first place (like masking at a press conference).

Rodgers was trying to fool the public and the media, won't argue that but...so what? He was trying to stay out of the entire vaccine debate. Most of the media would bend over backwards to get the kind of access a former punter (McAfee) has to Rodgers. Maybe they're a little miffed about that and now is a good time to pile on. It's also known that SOME media members knew about his status but where sitting on it for whatever reason. Wonder why? His obligation to the media is to talk with them after games and hold a once a week presser. He doesn't have to say anything of value at all, much less anything about his personal life/health. If he wanted (and I wish he would) he could go all Marshawn Lynch in those pressers.



"The viral load of vaccinated people with breakthrough cases is the same as in unvaccinated people, the CDC said Friday."
"High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus,” CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said in a statement.

Is/was Walensky spreading misinformation? And if so, should she be fired? She's the head of the CDC not some reporter.

From the Atlantic article you linked: "An outbreak in Provincetown, Massachusetts—in which 74 percent of the 469 cases were in the fully vaccinated—forced the CDC to update its mask guidance and issue a sad and sobering warning: Vaccinated people infected with the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant can be just as contagious as unvaccinated people."

356 vaccinated people tested positive. I'm not saying the vaccine didn't help with symptoms, but it didn't do a good job of preventing spread if 356 people got it. The author apparently disagrees with the CDC and his reply/argument was: "To spread the coronavirus, you have to have the coronavirus." Needless to say...I agree with this. Would have been nice to see some citations for the article. Comes across as opinion.

I'm not missing anything. All of Rogans treatments were therapeutic, after his positive test. He wasn't taking that stuff for the last year and a half.

Rodgers contacted Rogan after he tested positive (it's in the McAfee conversation) and his medical team used the same treatments that Rogan's medical team put him on after he tested positive. This is what Rogan said he did after getting covid (40 seconds in):


He was not suspended. He will play as soon as he's healthy. Maybe Sunday. It's up to the team and Rodgers at this point.

Rodgers says he's allergic to some of the ingredients in the Pfizer and Moderna and the J and J was pulled (maybe prematurely) for clotting issues. "If you have had a severe allergic reaction or an immediate allergic reaction—even if it was not severe—to any ingredient in an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine, you should not get either of the currently available mRNA COVID-19 vaccines (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna)."https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...allergies.html

I do care. That's my QB. I want him healthy and on the field. Again, it looks like the meds his Dr.'s prescribed worked well for him. So far. Only time will tell.

I do read the links you post. This one...I don't know. Rodgers is probably not worried about his ovaries, having a miscarriage or the formation of his placenta during pregnancy.

It seems like a lot of what your getting at with Rodgers (and Rogan) has been based on second hand reporting and soundbites. Rodgers entire sit down with McAfee and follow up is out there to watch. Why rely on a reporter when you can listen to the guy the reporter is reporting about. Get rid of the middle man. All the reporters are doing is watching McAfee then pulling out bits and pieces to fit their story, which people read, then think they're informed. That's lazy. Did not read the WaPo or NY Times articles as they are behind a paywall.

And yet Rodgers, after that, still went in front of the public on Aug. 26 and said "Yeah, I'm immunized".

"Fooling the public" is exactly what I'm criticizing him out for. And for doing so by spreading covid misinformation.

There are a number of cited hyperlinks in that article, which you might want to read as well. The point being that, yes, despite the incidence of breakthrough cases which can spread infections, the number of ultimately infected cases among vaccinated people is a fraction compared to the contagious unvaccinated cases. Here's a couple more easily googable articles making this point clear.

And he has not said which ingredient, which is weird, because if this were the case then Rodgers could have qualified for a valid medical exemption from the league, which he didn't ask for. And the most likely allergic ingredient in the vaccines, polyethylene glycol, would have to already be on Rodgers' medical records, as this is an ingredient in a number of commonly used NFL medications. In other words, people have good reason to be skeptical of his claim here.

That article explicitly states that the vaccines affect neither male nor female fertility. If there's a lack of fact-checking on the effects of male fertility and the vaccines, that's because there's been so very little question of it until now. Outside of Rodgers and Nicki Minaj's cousin's friend, there haven't been too many concerns over it, but now that Rodgers is out there, there's been some follow-up. Regardless, the obvious point stands that Rodgers' concern about his fertility has no legs to stand on, and certainly isn't a valid concern that's based in any real-world science or reason.

Sounds like a lot of your information regarding the coronavirus, like Rodgers and Rogan, is also coming from some pretty dubious and easily refuted sources. Since it's this spread of covid misinformation that Rodgers and Rogan have been responsible for, and which I'm taking issue with, it might be nice if some of these folks get a little wiser with their informational nutrition, and get a lot more responsible in not relaying this toxic misinformation.