His Dark Materials: The Golden Compass

No matter how good it is, I don't see it putting a "hurt" on Narnia, anymore than I would have expected Narnia to hurt LOTR. I don't think they aim to do the same things.

As for which is more compelling; I haven't read The Golden Compass (though I plan to soon), but I would imagine it would depend on what you find compelling in general. The Chronicles of Narnia do not have an overabundance of character development, nor should they. They are philosophical and very abstract in nature, and make some very broad, very meaningful points about God and mankind. They are stories in every sense of the word, whereas I would classify many modern tales as mere plots, if you follow.

Nevertheless, I hope to read the book soon and see for myself.

I've just finished the trilogy of books. Wow!

The Golden Compass is easily the weakest of the three, but it has loads of potential coolness. The last two entries though...Man alive, fantastic writing. These are some seriously challenging books. I'm surprised a studio picked it up, to be honest.

As far as fantasy series go, I don't think HDM dethrones Potter, but it certainly comes in a close second. The story is vivid, intelligent and packed with creativity. The characters, of all ages and backgrounds, have remarkable arcs that make perfect sense and yet are all surprising.

Pullman definitely hates the church establishment with a fiery passion, but his discovery and reasoning why makes for a terrific tale. I wouldn't call it an Athiests Narnia, as that would imply, to me at least, a want to convert thought away from God. Whereas I took the series' overwhelming struggle against the Authority as a reintroduction to logic and science. At the same time, science causes all kinds of problems throughout, so the net message is purely a humanist one.

And my God (pun intended), the heartbreak! OH, the heartbreak! Near tears, I was. Near tears!

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That's exactly why TGC is more compelling: while Narnia is a good story full of philosophy but without much character development, TGC has all of those elements in spades. Am very much looking forward to your reading the books. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

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I'm really looking forward to seeing this. I'm reading the book at the moment and I am really loving it.
I could definitely see Nicole Kidman as Mrs. Coulter and Daniel Craig as Lord Asriel. It'll be awesome to watch.

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Wow, have either of you read The Chronicles of Narnia anytime recently? It's an all-time classic for a reason. I'm looking forward to His Dark Materials and expect it will be quite enjoyable, but anyone who talks about it steamrolling Narnia is inevitably going to sound (to me) like they're talking crazy words, as I revere Lewis' series for countless reasons, both creative and philosophical.

Anyway, I want to continue this discussion, but it wouldn't be entirely fair of me until I've finished The Golden Compass. Did want to address this, though:

I agree that touting logic and science does not necessarily involve converting thought away from God, but if God and the church are set up as the ideological enemy of that logic and science, then I'd say that's precisely what it's trying to do. I don't believe that tinting it with some borderline gnostic humanism (which is all the rage for writers these days, it would seem) quite changes that.

God is not set up as the ideological enemy, it is the people (ie, the church) who take up arms (so to speak) in his absence that the books rally against.

His Dark Materials also doesn't take place in this world. It takes place in a world where God/'The Authority' has basically left the universe. If one wanted to, it could be argued that Pullman believes God to have left our world, but I don't think it is the case. The series is also relatively non-denominational. I think it is purely to do with a man run institution that has entirely lost sight of what it was established to celebrate/teach in the first place. I don't think any objective person, religious or not, would deny that the institution that is "the church" has all kinds of selfish things done in its name throughout history.

The series is still ultimately about faith and a belief in a higher order, but it is not Jesus Christ, rather the universe and every single particle in it; whether it exist in a tree, a cat or a person.

Oh, and no, I haven't read Narnia recently.

I've never read the Narnia Chronicles. I based my comment above purely on your own comment that character development isn't as strong in the Narnia series as is it's philosophy.

As for "steamrolling", that's your term, m'friend. I do think, based on having seen the Narnia film and read the Materials books, which is not a fair comparison, but it's what I'm working with for now, that HDM shows potential to be a better film, because of <spoiler spoiler spoiler>. heh

I effin' hate banks and making payments on the phone. It takes me 5 minutes to give 3 pieces of information because this lady-machine wants me to confirm everything I say. LET ME PRESS THE DAMN BUTTONS! I don't want to keep repeating myself so that some computer is certain I'm saying what I'm saying. Damnit.

Anyways, Nicole Kidman is lookin' good but that Eva Grace, or whoever, looks kind of retarded. I'm dead serious. She kind of pisses me off just by looking at her. Anyways, what the hell's this movie about. I was trying to watch the trailer but I had to keep focused on the phone because if I would have slipped up just once, I would have had to have gone through all that crap again.

I HATE THE LADY-MACHINE!

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I have the feeling this is a brilliantly disguised and shrewd social commentary, but I just don't know how to decipher it yet.

I feel it was an experience somewhere between the movie Brazil and the joke, Who's On First?

The trailer is pretty crappy. I know what its about and even I couldn't tell what the movie was about from the trailer.

The Golden Compass, the first of the trilogy, is about a girl named Lyra who unwillingly plays a role in a prophecy of sorts. The specifics of the "prophecy" aren't revealed until later, so I'll spare them here, but it involves her adventure leading up to a path where she will have to make a choice, a choice which she is not supposed to know she is making. There are multiple factions who either want to help her by coaxing her to this point and then there are those who want to kill her before she ever can.

Daniel Craig (Lord Asriel) is in pursuit of something called Dust, which in our world is just called Dark Matter, and eventually uses it to open a giant rift between our world and their world.

The first book, in my opinion, is actually relatively generic and really doesn't even hint at the intelligence and ferocity of the The Subtle Knife and the Amber Spyglass. It does, however, have a huge, alcoholic bear ripping out hearts, children being kidnapped and having their souls cut in half, daemons who change shape left and right, an aeronaut who kicks all kinds of ass, and sexy witches.

Oh, and Yod's, I should probably put a qualifier out there regarding my non-denominational label.

Pretty much the only religion under scrutiny is the Christian religion, and events of the Bible play directly into the plot and characters, but I still hold that the book's war cry isn't against Christianity, but the men who forge the once grand-intentions of organized religion into their own agendas. Pullman doesn't believe that ALL Christians are some kind of moron, but nearly every character in power (including the ones who think themselves heroic or noble) is shown to be wrong in their blind pursuit of one narrow goal or another; whether it be in the name of the church or in direct assassination of it. Only the characters who accept all other characters, accept all other ways of life, and accept all other belief systems are the ones who come out on top.

Then again, I'm firmly agnostic, so I'm not one to take offense when a book has two Angels who are also gay lovers, among many other 'heretical' showings.

That alone could make me sit through the whole movie.

Personally I thought the books hugely overrated, but there are some fascinating ideas and images which it will be interesting to see onscreen.

One thing bugs me, though: Why The Golden Compass, and not Northern Lights? I mean, it's not a compass, it's an althieometer.

Those Golden Compass books make me happy. It's trying to market itself as a Christmas movie, much like the first Narnia movie was released, in early December. I hope it'll be good. I suppose there's potential for screwup but I'm excited.

But as for the Narnia chronicles, how many books are there in the set? Aren't there 9 or something? I think I've only read the first one, but do the kids actually grow up in the however-many-books-there-are, or do they stay the same age?

There are seven in the series, and yes, the kids do grow up. In fact, some of them grow up and eventually disregard Narnia as something they simply imagined. There's a lot of macro character development like that in the books, and it contrasts greatly with modern writings in the genre, which seem to favor moment-to-moment inner workings a great deal more.

The later Narnia books don't feature the same kids as LtW&tW at all.

While they're not featured, some of the original kids appear in smaller roles as late as book five, The Horse and His Boy. And, of course, everyone is in The Last Battle.

Anyway, sorry for the off-topic chatter everyone. I'll try to resist the urge to make this thread about Narnia.

In the set I have, The Horse and His Boy is book 3, Book 5 is The Voyage of the Dawntreader, which iirc does feature Lucy and Edmund along with Eustace. Book 6 The Silver Chair features Eustace and Jill, so I suppose it is just this one that doesn't feature the original kids. Unless you count The Magician's Nephew.

Yeah, at one point someone decided to publish them chronologically, which kinda bugs me. I like the idea of The Magician's Nephew (which is sixth in my set) as a prequel that goes back and explains the foundations of the world you've been exploring, rather than as a simple origin story.