Is placing belief above facts an acceptable way to govern?

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there's a frog in my snake oil
Originally Posted by Anonymous Last
I’m sure the light of truth will shine under bushels, planks will be removed from unseeing eyes, and the meek shall inherit the wind, or summat.
Ahhhh, 'Anonymous Last Thread Flush', that's the tonic. Clears most passages and only spreads friendly germs .

Originally Posted by chicagofrog
nice flag... but i prefer the Texan republic's one...
That's not a real flag. Those ripples have been faked in post-production.

Originally Posted by 2wrongs
I think we've come to an impass. That's what I think. We're still where we were like 15 posts ago. I just have to say, I admire your skills in politics and in debating and I smile a wide one everytime you call me "darl" or "wrongles". I think it's swell that we kept our conversation from turning into mudslinging and wrestling, although...I could totally take you in a match.
Hey, i could outwrestle your mud any time.

Erm...ok, back to my usual territory of poe-faced postulating....

Darl, (just wanted to make you smile ), i know what you mean when you said "what good does it do to be this way about it?". I'll just finish our little tussle by trying to explain why i go in for these ticking-off tirades (and why i think it's worth getting het up about the causes and effects of the current regime-change).

Basically i'm disturbed when i hear someone ignore evidence in favour of unsubstantiated beliefs [my, how we've travelled back to the starting point of this thread ]. It feels like an abuse of hope.

I wouldn't want to dampen your optimism and desire for beneficial change in the world. I just think it's worth thinking about where you focus it.

And aside from anything else, the 'Freedom' we're fighting for needs to exist at home too - in the form of keeping an eye on what the powerful are doing.
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Arresting your development
Originally Posted by Golgot
Ahhhh, 'Anonymous Last Thread Flush', that's the tonic. Clears most passages and only spreads friendly germs .
I thought the little umbrella sticking out of the glass was a nice touch.
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Embrace the chaos and sour adversity, for wise men say it is the wisest course.






Hello Salem, my name's Winifred. What's yours
'Is placing belief over facts an acceptable way to govern?'

Not in the slightest, how can any country expect to have a fair legal system and governing body when it is a based on a religion. Its ruling with your head instead of your heart.
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Originally Posted by Golgot
Hey, i could outwrestle your mud any time.
I let you believe that's true since I have no real way of proving it otherwise.



Darl, (just wanted to make you smile ), i know what you mean when you said "what good does it do to be this way about it?". I'll just finish our little tussle by trying to explain why i go in for these ticking-off tirades (and why i think it's worth getting het up about the causes and effects of the current regime-change).

Basically i'm disturbed when i hear someone ignore evidence in favour of unsubstantiated beliefs [my, how we've travelled back to the starting point of this thread ]. It feels like an abuse of hope.

I wouldn't want to dampen your optimism and desire for beneficial change in the world. I just think it's worth thinking about where you focus it.

And aside from anything else, the 'Freedom' we're fighting for needs to exist at home too - in the form of keeping an eye on what the powerful are doing.
At least you understand me and I understand you. You know I'm coming from a place that wants to believe we are doing something good over there, even if the reasons we got there were not exactly "pure of heart". I'm not even sure any of us really know the full story on this war. It does good for all of us to speculate based on the information we've been given, but you'll forgive me if I can't always trust the sources.
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there's a frog in my snake oil
Originally Posted by 2wrongs
It does good for all of us to speculate based on the information we've been given, but you'll forgive me if I can't always trust the sources.
I understand your scepticism of the media in general, but i find it perplexing that you refuse to believe the reports on this 'end of tour' CIA cable. The admin's response confirms that it is genuine 'intelligence' material, and the fact that they can't contradict the reported assertions means the cable has almost certainly been reported accurately.

But fair enough on the other stuff, i don't see either of us changing each others' approach any time soon .



Hey guys. Me again. I'd get into this argument here but I think you guys got it under control. All I'll say is when I read that quote from Bush, I knew exactly what he meant and I agree, too. I don't think it has a lot to do with a lot of things you guys are throwing around. He's talking about who has the broader scope of reality: The people that bitch and complain about every little thing that goes wrong or the people that know enough to see everything must lead or build to something else. That's all I'm going to say and history has shown that he's most certainly right. I need not point out examples.
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Originally Posted by 2wrongs
You've really just summed it all up there, haven't you? Iraq isn't pretty, well neither was the destruction of the Berlin Wall. It took a long time to have any sense of normality after the collapse of Communism and the end of the Cold War but no one is going to say it wasn't worth the efforts.
The efforts in Iraq are just that. Efforts. You can run around and complain that it's not pretty and it's not going well, but come back in, say, 10 years and tell me where we're at. Such are the times we live in...but it's not to say the generations afterwards won't reap the benefits.
I agree with your point but I don't think the former communist countries will ever be the same and if so, not for a long time.