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I don't think Chris Cooper's character really hated homosexuals specifically. I think he was just a very repressed person in general and needed to tyrannically control other people and his environment in order to feel like his life had meaning and substance.
Is American Beauty anti-military or pro-homosexuality?
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Maybe the homosexuality angle made it easier for him to justify to himself the act of murder, but it wasn't the real reason. He was really all about control.
Lester Burnham = (for) Out of Control
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Yes, but don't forget he tried to kiss Lester. That one act doesn't make him doesn't make him a homosexual and in the scope of the movie, I don't think it matters if he was or wasn't. Because he was such a repressed person the feelings that he had brought on by trying to kiss Lester and then the subsequent rejection must have been overwhelming. Thus he acted out in the manner that he did.
American Beauty seems to be for chaos, for the cycle of chaos. After Lester's turn at chaos, it's Frank's turn. I can only imagine what became of Frank -- it's a good thing Alan Ball changed his screenplay, too, because originally, Ricky was supposed to jail for Lester's murder - Frank was to get away with it. I imagine Frank went to jail and, who knows, maybe really enjoyed the male bonding.
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Frank Fitts = (for) Control
Lester Burnham = (for) Out of Control
Lester Burnham = (for) Out of Control
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Yes, but don't forget he tried to kiss Lester. That one act doesn't make him doesn't make him a homosexual and in the scope of the movie, I don't think it matters if he was or wasn't. Because he was such a repressed person the feelings that he had brought on by trying to kiss Lester and then the subsequent rejection must have been overwhelming. Thus he acted out in the manner that he did.
I had the kiss in mind from the start when I put forth my idea on his motivation. I think you are right, the rejection must have been particularly painful for such a pent-up and unhappy man, and (sadly, unintentionally) it ended up reinforcing his rigid thinking. In that kiss, there was an attempt to do what Lester had tried (ultimately successfully, I think) to do throughout the film: To break free, to change, and become something more, something different, and escape (not literal escape, but psychological escape) from a boxed-in and stagnant existence.
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While I have always seen the kiss & murder of Lester connection being because of rejection and anger as well, what if Lester was murdered not because of rejection? I mean, yeah, that's the way people always see it, but at the same time, consider this: someone else in the world knew Frank was gay. There was a living, breathing person right across the street that knew Frank's darkest secret now. He had to go. Frank had been totally wrong about Lester and now, as far as Frank felt, he was in serious trouble. He couldn't go back to hiding who he was with Lester and he probably worried about things getting out of control.
It's easy for us to suspect that Lester was killed out of anger and rejection because it was a kiss and a kiss is supposed to represent love, but honestly, why did Frank need to feel rejected? Frank probably had zero love for Lester. They didn't really know each other. Maybe Frank found him cute or something - we don't know - but maybe he didn't. For all we know, Frank just needed sex -- he thought Lester was all about sex. Maybe Frank is a submissive gay. Maybe Frank wanted to suck off Lester -- he thought his son was doing it. Maybe Frank thought a kiss was a good way to signal to Lester what he intended to do for him.
Godoggo is right that we don't know really if Frank is a homosexual -- but it seems pretty clear that he's interested in homosexual acts. The film, to me, seems to be saying that Frank is gay -- I would say that's the writer's intention. But in the context of the film itself, you can't prove that Frank is gay. You can only see the interest in gay acts. So, Lester might not have been killed because of rejection -- and that might not even be the writer's intention as well. I'm not sure what all has been said on the subject regarding that. It could have been that Lester was killed because he knew. And that actually opens the doors to more profound things about Frank because if he's just interested in gay sex acts -- giving oral is something I'm guessing, because he thought he saw Lester enjoying the act of receiving oral -- then there could be more complex things about Frank and who he is and what he's all about and what's gone on in his life. Maybe he was obsessed with the military because it reminded him of his glory days of being ... well ... a receptacle.
It's easy for us to suspect that Lester was killed out of anger and rejection because it was a kiss and a kiss is supposed to represent love, but honestly, why did Frank need to feel rejected? Frank probably had zero love for Lester. They didn't really know each other. Maybe Frank found him cute or something - we don't know - but maybe he didn't. For all we know, Frank just needed sex -- he thought Lester was all about sex. Maybe Frank is a submissive gay. Maybe Frank wanted to suck off Lester -- he thought his son was doing it. Maybe Frank thought a kiss was a good way to signal to Lester what he intended to do for him.
Godoggo is right that we don't know really if Frank is a homosexual -- but it seems pretty clear that he's interested in homosexual acts. The film, to me, seems to be saying that Frank is gay -- I would say that's the writer's intention. But in the context of the film itself, you can't prove that Frank is gay. You can only see the interest in gay acts. So, Lester might not have been killed because of rejection -- and that might not even be the writer's intention as well. I'm not sure what all has been said on the subject regarding that. It could have been that Lester was killed because he knew. And that actually opens the doors to more profound things about Frank because if he's just interested in gay sex acts -- giving oral is something I'm guessing, because he thought he saw Lester enjoying the act of receiving oral -- then there could be more complex things about Frank and who he is and what he's all about and what's gone on in his life. Maybe he was obsessed with the military because it reminded him of his glory days of being ... well ... a receptacle.
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Frank was like those Republican politicians and right wing preachers who publicly bash gays but really want to get inside them.
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I think Frank was bottled-up for so much of his life that he himself wasn't sure who and what he was.
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I'm probably gonna sound crazy, but, I can't help but consider something else about Frank Fitts...
The man had a need to drug test his son every six months, via his son's urine (although it was never his son's urine, but he didn't know that.) What if that was really an unconscious (or, hell, it could have been conscious) choice because he got a thrill out of handling any type of fluid that came out of a penis? If I'm right about Frank being a submissive when it comes to homosexual acts, it is very possible. I can't help but consider it because that is part of the story - Frank giving Ricky urine tests. Combine that with Frank being gay and Frank being into draining guys' dicks, giving Ricky urine tests is a way for Frank to drain a penis in some way -- a way for his repressed desires to manifest in some way. I'm not saying it has to be a full on disturbing thing like Frank knowingly enjoys what he's doing (but he could) -- but it could be another hint to Frank's secret side. It can even provide a deeper reason for Ricky to be just another pothead hippie -- so Frank could give him urine tests. So we'd have another clue about what Frank is all about. I think there is a connection here because everything seems to be adding up -- the only gay sex act that's really brought up is oral sex. That's what obsesses Frank -- that's what forces him to make his son do the urine tests, that's what sends him over to the house of Lester, a guy he thinks likes to be orally serviced -- Frank loves to drain penises. And that's why Frank is obsessed with guns -- guns are penises to Frank. Hell, that's gotta be why Frank is named Frank! It's all about the penis with him. It's all about emptying the penis -- that's why he even shoots Lester at the end -- psychologically, to Frank, he's relieving his repressed desire somehow -- by allowing the gun to empty its bullet into Lester's head, he's psychologically simulating oral sex. He had to release that need to drain a penis -- that is probably why it was raining that night, too -- the rain represented sex, it represented what Frank was after -- release. He fulfilled his desire by killing Lester. Murdering Lester was like a sex act. It was a dark substitute since Frank couldn't get it the easier way.
In a way, it shows us that even Lester is an agent of pain and suffering and restriction, just like the life he was living before he decided to "take control." The suburban life, the life of work and boringness. Lester restricted Frank from doing what he really wanted to do, so Frank had to take drastic measures to "take control" and find pleasure -- and he did so by killing Lester.
The man had a need to drug test his son every six months, via his son's urine (although it was never his son's urine, but he didn't know that.) What if that was really an unconscious (or, hell, it could have been conscious) choice because he got a thrill out of handling any type of fluid that came out of a penis? If I'm right about Frank being a submissive when it comes to homosexual acts, it is very possible. I can't help but consider it because that is part of the story - Frank giving Ricky urine tests. Combine that with Frank being gay and Frank being into draining guys' dicks, giving Ricky urine tests is a way for Frank to drain a penis in some way -- a way for his repressed desires to manifest in some way. I'm not saying it has to be a full on disturbing thing like Frank knowingly enjoys what he's doing (but he could) -- but it could be another hint to Frank's secret side. It can even provide a deeper reason for Ricky to be just another pothead hippie -- so Frank could give him urine tests. So we'd have another clue about what Frank is all about. I think there is a connection here because everything seems to be adding up -- the only gay sex act that's really brought up is oral sex. That's what obsesses Frank -- that's what forces him to make his son do the urine tests, that's what sends him over to the house of Lester, a guy he thinks likes to be orally serviced -- Frank loves to drain penises. And that's why Frank is obsessed with guns -- guns are penises to Frank. Hell, that's gotta be why Frank is named Frank! It's all about the penis with him. It's all about emptying the penis -- that's why he even shoots Lester at the end -- psychologically, to Frank, he's relieving his repressed desire somehow -- by allowing the gun to empty its bullet into Lester's head, he's psychologically simulating oral sex. He had to release that need to drain a penis -- that is probably why it was raining that night, too -- the rain represented sex, it represented what Frank was after -- release. He fulfilled his desire by killing Lester. Murdering Lester was like a sex act. It was a dark substitute since Frank couldn't get it the easier way.
In a way, it shows us that even Lester is an agent of pain and suffering and restriction, just like the life he was living before he decided to "take control." The suburban life, the life of work and boringness. Lester restricted Frank from doing what he really wanted to do, so Frank had to take drastic measures to "take control" and find pleasure -- and he did so by killing Lester.
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While I have always seen the kiss & murder of Lester connection being because of rejection and anger as well, what if Lester was murdered not because of rejection? I mean, yeah, that's the way people always see it, but at the same time, consider this: someone else in the world knew Frank was gay. There was a living, breathing person right across the street that knew Frank's darkest secret now. He had to go. Frank had been totally wrong about Lester and now, as far as Frank felt, he was in serious trouble. He couldn't go back to hiding who he was with Lester and he probably worried about things getting out of control.
The man had a need to drug test his son every six months, via his son's urine (although it was never his son's urine, but he didn't know that.) What if that was really an unconscious (or, hell, it could have been conscious) choice because he got a thrill out of handling any type of fluid that came out of a penis? If I'm right about Frank being a submissive when it comes to homosexual acts, it is very possible.
When I saw this film, which was a long time ago, it was pretty obvious to me that Frank is a control freak and that's the reason to his actions. He'd developed this personality as a defense mechanism against everything in his life that he perceived to be signs of weakness. The latent homosexuality within Frank was probably only one of these signs of weakness. When he's trying to kiss Lester it's a moment of letting the guard down and allowing himself to let go for his most inner emotions. Maybe he's thinking that with Lester's help he can become the person that he really is. But more likely, I don't think Frank really knows exactly why he is trying to kiss Lester - he's too overwhelmed by all these erupting emotions that he's held back over the years. By killing Lester, not only does he get rid of the only person who can bear witness of his latent homosexuality, but perhaps also the only person who has ever witnessed Frank in a moment of complete honesty (i.e. weakness, in Frank's mind). So, by killing Lester, Frank regains control over the situation, he gets rid of the chaos and restores order in suburbia. Conformity reigns, as opposed to:
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The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".
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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.
The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".
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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.
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You people are getting it all wrong.
Lester was actually an alien. That's why he started having a "mid-life crisis", it was cover for the body snatcher invasion. Frank, being a military man, had experience dealing with covert invasion attempts. During his black-op training Frank was taught that the best way to test a human to see if they were a body snatcher was to stick your tongue down their throat.
Frank was suspicious of Lester for awhile, which is why he took to spying on him. Finally, he went over and tried the tongue test. When Lester reacted as he did, Frank knew for certain that he was an alien, not the man he appeared.
Frank was really an american hero who nipped an alien invasion in the bud.
Lester was actually an alien. That's why he started having a "mid-life crisis", it was cover for the body snatcher invasion. Frank, being a military man, had experience dealing with covert invasion attempts. During his black-op training Frank was taught that the best way to test a human to see if they were a body snatcher was to stick your tongue down their throat.
Frank was suspicious of Lester for awhile, which is why he took to spying on him. Finally, he went over and tried the tongue test. When Lester reacted as he did, Frank knew for certain that he was an alien, not the man he appeared.
Frank was really an american hero who nipped an alien invasion in the bud.
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When I saw this film, which was a long time ago, it was pretty obvious to me that Frank is a control freak and that's the reason to his actions. He'd developed this personality as a defense mechanism against everything in his life that he perceived to be signs of weakness. The latent homosexuality within Frank was probably only one of these signs of weakness. When he's trying to kiss Lester it's a moment of letting the guard down and allowing himself to let go for his most inner emotions. Maybe he's thinking that with Lester's help he can become the person that he really is. But more likely, I don't think Frank really knows exactly why he is trying to kiss Lester - he's too overwhelmed by all these erupting emotions that he's held back over the years. By killing Lester, not only does he get rid of the only person who can bear witness of his latent homosexuality, but perhaps also the only person who has ever witnessed Frank in a moment of complete honesty (i.e. weakness, in Frank's mind). So, by killing Lester, Frank regains control over the situation, he gets rid of the chaos and restores order in suburbia. Conformity reigns
I am very much convinced now that this isn't just a typical story of a closet case. I really think I have zeroed in on what Frank really cares about -- sucking dick. There are men who only want to do this, whether they identify as straight or gay. It is the penis they mostly care for, although they can care for the guy, but I find that usually these guys don't go for the typical gay relationship thing. Frank Fitts isn't gonna come out of the closet and go get a boyfriend and buy a house with him, etc., if he ever did come out of the closet -- Frank is in it for the dick, and frankly, I think the kiss he gives Lester cheapens the movie. He should have grabbed his dick or something. The only reason I can think now that Frank would kiss Lester is because he's probably used to that with men - he's probably a kiss and suck guy. Yes -- it shows he's more emotional, but it could even show he's a much more passionate c**k-sucker than most.
I really think this is Frank's story, that he's really all about just servicing men, secretly. When he confronts Ricky after seeing Ricky supposedly giving oral to Lester, Frank goes into a rage about, "I will not sit back and watch my son become a c**ksucker!" That's what he focuses on, that's what he zeroes in on -- the act. It's not about being gay -- it's about the act. Piddzilla, I don't think you're wrong with what you're saying, but I don't think that's all there is to it. I think it's complex - and one of the reasons why American Beauty is so great and deserves more respect than it gets.
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Okay. I'm not saying your wrong, but this analysis is very, very simple and easy to read (and probably handle to most people) compared to the one I made. I really thought hard about what I was saying and wasn't just opening my mouth and spewing out anything, yet Ash gets the rep point for a simple "I think you're reading too much into this!" and I get nothing.
I am very much convinced now that this isn't just a typical story of a closet case. I really think I have zeroed in on what Frank really cares about -- sucking dick. There are men who only want to do this, whether they identify as straight or gay. It is the penis they mostly care for, although they can care for the guy, but I find that usually these guys don't go for the typical gay relationship thing. Frank Fitts isn't gonna come out of the closet and go get a boyfriend and buy a house with him, etc., if he ever did come out of the closet -- Frank is in it for the dick, and frankly, I think the kiss he gives Lester cheapens the movie. He should have grabbed his dick or something. The only reason I can think now that Frank would kiss Lester is because he's probably used to that with men - he's probably a kiss and suck guy. Yes -- it shows he's more emotional, but it could even show he's a much more passionate c**k-sucker than most.
I really think this is Frank's story, that he's really all about just servicing men, secretly. When he confronts Ricky after seeing Ricky supposedly giving oral to Lester, Frank goes into a rage about, "I will not sit back and watch my son become a c**ksucker!" That's what he focuses on, that's what he zeroes in on -- the act. It's not about being gay -- it's about the act. Piddzilla, I don't think you're wrong with what you're saying, but I don't think that's all there is to it. I think it's complex - and one of the reasons why American Beauty is so great and deserves more respect than it gets.
I am very much convinced now that this isn't just a typical story of a closet case. I really think I have zeroed in on what Frank really cares about -- sucking dick. There are men who only want to do this, whether they identify as straight or gay. It is the penis they mostly care for, although they can care for the guy, but I find that usually these guys don't go for the typical gay relationship thing. Frank Fitts isn't gonna come out of the closet and go get a boyfriend and buy a house with him, etc., if he ever did come out of the closet -- Frank is in it for the dick, and frankly, I think the kiss he gives Lester cheapens the movie. He should have grabbed his dick or something. The only reason I can think now that Frank would kiss Lester is because he's probably used to that with men - he's probably a kiss and suck guy. Yes -- it shows he's more emotional, but it could even show he's a much more passionate c**k-sucker than most.
I really think this is Frank's story, that he's really all about just servicing men, secretly. When he confronts Ricky after seeing Ricky supposedly giving oral to Lester, Frank goes into a rage about, "I will not sit back and watch my son become a c**ksucker!" That's what he focuses on, that's what he zeroes in on -- the act. It's not about being gay -- it's about the act. Piddzilla, I don't think you're wrong with what you're saying, but I don't think that's all there is to it. I think it's complex - and one of the reasons why American Beauty is so great and deserves more respect than it gets.
To tell you the truth, if all Frank wanted to do was to suck Lester's willy I don't think he would react in the way he did. He's totally crushed! Why would he react in that way and surrender so completely to Lester if it wasn't for the fact that he can no longer hold back his preference for men? If he just wanted to play around with a dick all he needs to do is meet up with someone likeminded in secret downtown. I don't think he would risk his whole life just to live out a sex fantasy. At least I would not find that very believable if that was the message of the film.
I don't think either one of us is wrong or right because we're both trying to read between the lines. But to me, American Beauty is not a very complex film and I don't think the filmmakers had any intentions to deliver complex messages hidden in the film's texture. What you see is pretty much it - there's nothing hidden behind the scenes. I do believe my interpretation of it pretty much corresponds to what the filmmakers aimed for. But I'm sure they would love your penis obsession theory. I do.
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Okay. I'm not saying your wrong, but this analysis is very, very simple and easy to read (and probably handle to most people) compared to the one I made. I really thought hard about what I was saying and wasn't just opening my mouth and spewing out anything, yet Ash gets the rep point for a simple "I think you're reading too much into this!" and I get nothing.
I am very much convinced now that this isn't just a typical story of a closet case. I really think I have zeroed in on what Frank really cares about -- sucking dick. There are men who only want to do this, whether they identify as straight or gay. It is the penis they mostly care for, although they can care for the guy, but I find that usually these guys don't go for the typical gay relationship thing. Frank Fitts isn't gonna come out of the closet and go get a boyfriend and buy a house with him, etc., if he ever did come out of the closet -- Frank is in it for the dick, and frankly, I think the kiss he gives Lester cheapens the movie. He should have grabbed his dick or something. The only reason I can think now that Frank would kiss Lester is because he's probably used to that with men - he's probably a kiss and suck guy. Yes -- it shows he's more emotional, but it could even show he's a much more passionate c**k-sucker than most.
I really think this is Frank's story, that he's really all about just servicing men, secretly. When he confronts Ricky after seeing Ricky supposedly giving oral to Lester, Frank goes into a rage about, "I will not sit back and watch my son become a c**ksucker!" That's what he focuses on, that's what he zeroes in on -- the act. It's not about being gay -- it's about the act. Piddzilla, I don't think you're wrong with what you're saying, but I don't think that's all there is to it. I think it's complex - and one of the reasons why American Beauty is so great and deserves more respect than it gets.
I am very much convinced now that this isn't just a typical story of a closet case. I really think I have zeroed in on what Frank really cares about -- sucking dick. There are men who only want to do this, whether they identify as straight or gay. It is the penis they mostly care for, although they can care for the guy, but I find that usually these guys don't go for the typical gay relationship thing. Frank Fitts isn't gonna come out of the closet and go get a boyfriend and buy a house with him, etc., if he ever did come out of the closet -- Frank is in it for the dick, and frankly, I think the kiss he gives Lester cheapens the movie. He should have grabbed his dick or something. The only reason I can think now that Frank would kiss Lester is because he's probably used to that with men - he's probably a kiss and suck guy. Yes -- it shows he's more emotional, but it could even show he's a much more passionate c**k-sucker than most.
I really think this is Frank's story, that he's really all about just servicing men, secretly. When he confronts Ricky after seeing Ricky supposedly giving oral to Lester, Frank goes into a rage about, "I will not sit back and watch my son become a c**ksucker!" That's what he focuses on, that's what he zeroes in on -- the act. It's not about being gay -- it's about the act. Piddzilla, I don't think you're wrong with what you're saying, but I don't think that's all there is to it. I think it's complex - and one of the reasons why American Beauty is so great and deserves more respect than it gets.
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okay, first of all, who cares if i got a +1 for my post and you hadn
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