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To usurp an earlier pronouncement, Taxi Driver is a legit, bonafide, Top Twenty-Five Neo Noir. The Departed is just....popular.
The MoFo Top 100 Neo-noir Countdown
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To usurp an earlier pronouncement, Taxi Driver is a legit, bonafide, Top Twenty-Five Neo Noir. The Departed is just....popular.
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Pale Flower was my #4. The vibes, fatalism, and attraction to death made me love this one the first time I saw it. There was no way I was submitting a neo-noir ballot without this on it.
The Departed is a movie that exists and that I have seen. I did not dislike it, and probably more-or-less enjoyed it, but I have not given it any thought since that viewing. As was expected from a best picture winner (they sometimes award really good movies, but during this era, it seemed the ratio was a lot more, "okay movies." According to my tastes at least)
The Departed is a movie that exists and that I have seen. I did not dislike it, and probably more-or-less enjoyed it, but I have not given it any thought since that viewing. As was expected from a best picture winner (they sometimes award really good movies, but during this era, it seemed the ratio was a lot more, "okay movies." According to my tastes at least)
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I wrote this in a past HoF:
The Departed (2006)
On the positive side, the story hooked me quickly with it's interesting plot and the characters kept me invested. I never got bored. And DiCaprio was great in this and the rest of the actors up to par too. The shooting locations were great.
On the negative side I couldn't help but feel that Martin Scorsese was emulating Quentin Tarantino's style of film making. The scenes were short and fast edited, the dialogue overly colorful to the point of me not believing cops would be talking this way...I thought the ending sucked. It was like the writer's ran out of ideas and just used a form of deus ex machina to end the movie...It was like boom, boom, boom and all the character arcs were wrapped up.
The Departed (2006)
On the positive side, the story hooked me quickly with it's interesting plot and the characters kept me invested. I never got bored. And DiCaprio was great in this and the rest of the actors up to par too. The shooting locations were great.
On the negative side I couldn't help but feel that Martin Scorsese was emulating Quentin Tarantino's style of film making. The scenes were short and fast edited, the dialogue overly colorful to the point of me not believing cops would be talking this way...I thought the ending sucked. It was like the writer's ran out of ideas and just used a form of deus ex machina to end the movie...It was like boom, boom, boom and all the character arcs were wrapped up.
That's pretty much my opinion too. It's a good movie, a very good one, but it doesn't have the quality, subtlety, or timelessness of many of his other films. It's a movie I watched and enjoyed, but with the truly greatest movies, you can completely lose yourself inside of them.
To be fair, it's almost impossible to make something both mainstream and truly great. Scorsese prioritized the former over the latter, and in that way, he succeeded.
I've seen and enjoyed the Departed, but not enough to make my list. It's the sort of movie you watch once in a very great while. You don't regret seeing it, but there's nothing you missed the first time.
I know it seems like nitpicking to say a movie isn't challenging enough, or doesn't merit repeat viewing, but we are talking about the greatest dramatic thrillers of all time. 53 out of 100 top neo-noirs is certainly not bad.
I know it seems like nitpicking to say a movie isn't challenging enough, or doesn't merit repeat viewing, but we are talking about the greatest dramatic thrillers of all time. 53 out of 100 top neo-noirs is certainly not bad.
If I thought about it enough, The Departed would have made my list. I just didn't think of it.
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So The Departed is a noir?
It's a good movie though. Not great. And I kid I'm sure I've got a few on my list that can be questioned. As for that other taxi driving neo noir it could have parked on my list but even though it's my #2 of all-time I lowered it a bit because well just because. Or I didn't Spoiler alert.
Pale Flower was on my list at #18. Shinoda is a wild great filmmaker and this is his best. It's a neo noir in a very Japanese way. It's not experimental but it has that feel like a lot of the Japanese New Wave does. It's raw and for me I love that score. It just works.
4. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (1976)
10. Alphaville (1965)
17. Fireworks (1997)
18. Pale Flower (1964)
22. The American Friend (1977)
25. Série noire (1979) - One pointer
It's a good movie though. Not great. And I kid I'm sure I've got a few on my list that can be questioned. As for that other taxi driving neo noir it could have parked on my list but even though it's my #2 of all-time I lowered it a bit because well just because. Or I didn't Spoiler alert.Pale Flower was on my list at #18. Shinoda is a wild great filmmaker and this is his best. It's a neo noir in a very Japanese way. It's not experimental but it has that feel like a lot of the Japanese New Wave does. It's raw and for me I love that score. It just works.
4. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (1976)
10. Alphaville (1965)
17. Fireworks (1997)
18. Pale Flower (1964)
22. The American Friend (1977)
25. Série noire (1979) - One pointer
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"Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
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The Departed is another that I love but would never consider for this genre.
I saw Pale Flower in 2015 and gave it . I suspect that I would like it more now.
I saw Pale Flower in 2015 and gave it . I suspect that I would like it more now.
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I was just about 100% sure that Pale Flower was on my ballot - until I checked it, and my heart sunk in disappointment. Why did it not make it? I can't even tell you. I thought I'd put it there. Anyway - I've seen 3 out of the past 4 reveals...
56. Thelma & Louise - I first saw this a few years ago after my father (of all people) continued to recommend it to me as one of his favourite movies, over and over again until I finally relented. I didn't dislike it - it's the kind of movie where I'd get a kick out of seeing a scene here and there, but not watch the whole thing from start to finish again. I don't know why. Some movies are like that for me - I really like how they were made, and the performances in it (to the point where watching a scene is very enjoyable) but as a whole there might be a little too much misfortune piled up to that crazy ending that makes it hard for me to see it all in one go. Underneath the fist-pumping roar of freedom is a story about a dark, disaster-plagued couple of days for Thelma (Geena Davis) and Louise (Susan Sarandon). I get it, but part of me refuses to look past that element.
55. Lost Highway - Have not seen this.
54. Pale Flower - This is brilliant. It should be on my ballot! Perhaps I decided that I'd seen this too recently, and only once so far. It's fascinating to see the whole film noir formula from another nation's perspective - which I find to be pretty rare with this genre. Japan had a very strict culture which somewhat clashes with the influence the United States has had over the past 80 years or so - and that's where a lot of the tension in Pale Flower comes from. It's superbly stylish, always looking cool and pleasing the eye, and it also sounds fantastic - emphasising effects over score and dialogue (which was controversial at the time.) I was surprised how the femme fatale breaks free of Japanese gender rules so overtly - and yet so easily, providing an addictive source of life and a certain edge to main Yakuza character Muraki (Ryō Ikebe). A movie with a lot to give, Pale Flower - I loved it at first sight.
53. The Departed - I don't like this as much as most other people do - much preferring Infernal Affairs. Still, I enjoy watching Leonardo DiCaprio, Matt Damon, Jack Nicholson, Mark Wahlberg, Martin Sheen, Ray Winstone, Vera Farmiga and Alec Baldwin ply their trade. That is one superb cast - and by far The Departed's best feature. I think it's at least a half hour too long, and a little too dour. There was far more tension in Infernal Affairs because it didn't move so slowly or take itself too seriously.
Seen : 29/48
56. Thelma & Louise - I first saw this a few years ago after my father (of all people) continued to recommend it to me as one of his favourite movies, over and over again until I finally relented. I didn't dislike it - it's the kind of movie where I'd get a kick out of seeing a scene here and there, but not watch the whole thing from start to finish again. I don't know why. Some movies are like that for me - I really like how they were made, and the performances in it (to the point where watching a scene is very enjoyable) but as a whole there might be a little too much misfortune piled up to that crazy ending that makes it hard for me to see it all in one go. Underneath the fist-pumping roar of freedom is a story about a dark, disaster-plagued couple of days for Thelma (Geena Davis) and Louise (Susan Sarandon). I get it, but part of me refuses to look past that element.
55. Lost Highway - Have not seen this.
54. Pale Flower - This is brilliant. It should be on my ballot! Perhaps I decided that I'd seen this too recently, and only once so far. It's fascinating to see the whole film noir formula from another nation's perspective - which I find to be pretty rare with this genre. Japan had a very strict culture which somewhat clashes with the influence the United States has had over the past 80 years or so - and that's where a lot of the tension in Pale Flower comes from. It's superbly stylish, always looking cool and pleasing the eye, and it also sounds fantastic - emphasising effects over score and dialogue (which was controversial at the time.) I was surprised how the femme fatale breaks free of Japanese gender rules so overtly - and yet so easily, providing an addictive source of life and a certain edge to main Yakuza character Muraki (Ryō Ikebe). A movie with a lot to give, Pale Flower - I loved it at first sight.
53. The Departed - I don't like this as much as most other people do - much preferring Infernal Affairs. Still, I enjoy watching Leonardo DiCaprio, Matt Damon, Jack Nicholson, Mark Wahlberg, Martin Sheen, Ray Winstone, Vera Farmiga and Alec Baldwin ply their trade. That is one superb cast - and by far The Departed's best feature. I think it's at least a half hour too long, and a little too dour. There was far more tension in Infernal Affairs because it didn't move so slowly or take itself too seriously.
Seen : 29/48
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AWARDS?
Pale Flower didn't receive any awards, but The Departed did get a bunch. These are some of the most notable:
Pale Flower didn't receive any awards, but The Departed did get a bunch. These are some of the most notable:
- Seven (7) Critics Choice Award nominations, including a win for Best Picture and Best Director (Scorsese)
- Six (6) BAFTA Award nominations, including Best Film and Best Screenplay
- Six (6) Golden Globe Award nominations, including a win for Best Director (Scorsese)
- Six (6) Satellite Award nominations, including a win for Best Actor (Leonardo DiCaprio)
- Five (5) Academy Award nominations, including a win for Best Picture and Besst Director (Martin Scorsese)
- One (1) MTV Movie Award for Best Villain (Jack Nicholson)
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no votes. i saw pale flower at some point in the last year or two and liked it very much, would definitely watch it again. the departed is a film i have a somewhat complicated opinion of - you can dig up a review of it i wrote on here almost a decade ago, but i've watched it again and again (far more than so many scorsese films that i allegedly like more - the last time was just a couple of months ago). i think i noted this when infernal affairs made the list, but i respected how that film knew its whole undercover narrative was better suited to a swift thriller than a drawn-out epic and the ways in which departed tried to add texture or rework the story never really worked for me as a result. at least it got marty an oscar, i guess.
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Iro's Top 100 Movies v3.0
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52
Park Chan-wook, 2003
Choi Min-sik, Yoo Ji-tae, Kang Hye-jung, Kim Byeong-ok
6lists75points
Oldboy
Director
Park Chan-wook, 2003
Starring
Choi Min-sik, Yoo Ji-tae, Kang Hye-jung, Kim Byeong-ok
51
Samuel Fuller, 1964
Constance Towers, Michael Dante, Anthony Eisley, Virginia Grey
5lists77points
The Naked Kiss
Director
Samuel Fuller, 1964
Starring
Constance Towers, Michael Dante, Anthony Eisley, Virginia Grey
