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Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid (Sam Peckinpah 1973)

Freaking amazing camera work and scene set up by director Sam Peckinpah. The man has an eye for film, like Orson Welles did. But the story was like a stitched together quilt of amazing scenes that didn't really tell a compelling story. Most likely that's because he was a raging alcohol at the time and you can't do your best work drunk.

I recently seen a neat little western called Dirty Little Billy with Michael J. Pollard as Billy the Kid, and it didn't help that Kris Kristofferson played Billy here, he's no Billy the Kid. I've never liked Kristofferson anyway. James Coburn was Pat Garrett the man who killed Billy. Usually Coburn brings a lot of color to his role, but here he was just a fixture in Peckinpah's over reaching western.


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Black Bart (1948)

A very surprisingly positive view on crime for the 1940s. Black Bart (Dan Duryea) has robbed a number of Wells Fargo Stages seriously hurting there chances to establish a banking empire in the new state of California. Bart grows wealthy and is quite the well heeled man about town. The film seems to endorse this lifestyle without condemnation and that's very unusual for a film about criminals during the height of the Hays Code.

The print I watched was sharp and crisp, looking like it was just filmed yesterday...and in glorious three strip technicolor too. Dan Duryea did his usual likable bad guy character and lovely Yvonne De Carlo was surprisingly snappy and quick witted in her lines, though she was always good at that on TV's The Munsters as Lily. She's much younger here and very lovely looking.

At 1 hour 17 minutes, this is a fun watch.




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All good people are asleep and dreaming.
Yes Brandon De Wilde was terrible in Shane, but he evolved as an actor. He was terrific in Hud.

Please watch Hud.



All good people are asleep and dreaming.

Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid (Sam Peckinpah 1973)

Freaking amazing camera work and scene set up by director Sam Peckinpah. The man has an eye for film, like Orson Welles did. But the story was like a stitched together quilt of amazing scenes that didn't really tell a compelling story. Most likely that's because he was a raging alcohol at the time and you can't do your best work drunk.

I recently seen a neat little western called Dirty Little Billy with Michael J. Pollard as Billy the Kid, and it didn't help that Kris Kristofferson played Billy here, he's no Billy the Kid. I've never liked Kristofferson anyway. James Coburn was Pat Garrett the man who killed Billy. Usually Coburn brings a lot of color to his role, but here he was just a fixture in Peckinpah's over reaching western.


Speaking of annoying, how about Bob Dylan?



Speaking of annoying, how about Bob Dylan?
Glad you mentioned him. Other than the novelty of seeing Bob Dylan in a movie, he was woefully miscast and couldn't act. And while his music is renown, the score for the movie kept playing the same refrain from Knocking On Heavens Door, over and over. Each time it was played over the scene, the movie stopped feeling like a movie, and felt instead like a commercial for a vacation package.



Yes Brandon De Wilde was terrible in Shane, but he evolved as an actor. He was terrific in Hud.

Please watch Hud.
I've seen Hud and thought it was great. But it's been a long time one of these days I'll rewatch it. FYI it's sad what happened to Brandon De Wilde I really need to stop reading actors mini bios on IMDB.



You can't make a rainbow without a little rain.
I’m probably a bit behind on the western genre.

So what are like 5 big ones that you simply has to have seen in the genre? I’ll try to get a few checked off in the coming days
The 5 big westerns? Anyone could mention those so:

Citizen Rule's 5 Underseen, Must See Westerns

In alphabetical order:
Along the Great Divide (1951)
The Gunfighter (1950)
The Man from Laramie (1955)
The Naked Spur (1953)
The Ox-Bow Incident (1942)

I'll second The Gunfighter (1950) and The Ox-Bow Incident (1942),

And add these movies:
Winchester '73 (1950)
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)


And these are a few underseen western movies that I'd recommend:
A Big Hand for the Little Lady (1966)
The Electric Horseman (1979)
No Name on the Bullet (1959)
Support Your Local Sheriff (1969)
The Hanging Tree (1959)
North to Alaska (1960)
The Bravados (1958)
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If I answer a game thread correctly, just skip my turn and continue with the game.
OPEN FLOOR.



You can't make a rainbow without a little rain.
Yes Brandon De Wilde was terrible in Shane, but he evolved as an actor. He was terrific in Hud.

Please watch Hud.

I think the first thing I did after I watched Hud was go to IMDB to find out why he looked so familiar. I had no idea that he was the annoying kid in Shane.



You can't make a rainbow without a little rain.

Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid (Sam Peckinpah 1973)

Freaking amazing camera work and scene set up by director Sam Peckinpah. The man has an eye for film, like Orson Welles did. But the story was like a stitched together quilt of amazing scenes that didn't really tell a compelling story. Most likely that's because he was a raging alcohol at the time and you can't do your best work drunk.

I recently seen a neat little western called Dirty Little Billy with Michael J. Pollard as Billy the Kid, and it didn't help that Kris Kristofferson played Billy here, he's no Billy the Kid. I've never liked Kristofferson anyway. James Coburn was Pat Garrett the man who killed Billy. Usually Coburn brings a lot of color to his role, but here he was just a fixture in Peckinpah's over reaching western.


Speaking of annoying, how about Bob Dylan?
Glad you mentioned him. Other than the novelty of seeing Bob Dylan in a movie, he was woefully miscast and couldn't act. And while his music is renown, the score for the movie kept playing the same refrain from Knocking On Heavens Door, over and over. Each time it was played over the scene, the movie stopped feeling like a movie, and felt instead like a commercial for a vacation package.

I thought James Coburn was too old to play Pat Garrett, and he was one of the best in the cast. Whoever cast that movie did a terrible job.



Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid (Sam Peckinpah 1973)
Haven't seen it yet but I'm quite interested to. My father worships the soundtrack and its composer, one of his favourite records, yet has always spoken poorly about the movie. I'm thinking it's one of those films you just have to see at least once.



Unforgiven (1992)

This was a mandatory rewatch for the countdown. It wasn't as good as I remembered but still good. It's perhaps a bit too revisionist in its depiction of killing and it certainly would have benefitted from more brutal violence.



EDIT: Oh-oh, posted this in the wrong thread At least it kinda fits here too.
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Apache (Robert Aldrich 1954)

Let's cut to the chase, if you're younger you're most likely going to see Apache as racist because white actors are playing native Americans. And that's too bad because this is one of the first westerns to tell the story of an Apache native American, from their viewpoint. The whole film is about Massai (Burt Lancaster) who's the last of the fighting Apache. He's captured, chained and shipped from his homeland in New Mexico to Florida by a train. He escapes and goes on the run, across country, waging a one man guerilla war against the U.S. Army. I mean that's pretty unique for 1950s and progressive too. Massai was a real Apache and if you can get over seeing white actors playing native Americans, then you might just enjoy this film. I did.


Sounds like an interesting movie. Jean Peters looks really interesting as a native with that defiant attitude.



Here's what she normally looks like.



I think it's silly that people would assume it's racist.



Citizen have you seen Hannie Caulder (1971)?

And The Belle Starr Story (1968)?
Nope I haven't seen those. I might get around to them one of these days, but as there's only 12 days left I'm focusing on more well known westerns.





The Last Frontier (Anthony Mann 1955)

Director Anthony Mann made 11 westerns during his career. The Last Frontier isn't the best known, but it's worth a look for a few unique reasons.

Like many of his westerns he shoots in and around mountainous terrain. Here we get a snow capped mountain as the backdrop for one of the coolest looking forts ever built for film. Fort Shallan looks real! This is no cheesy movie set, it looks totally functional and with a mountain backdrop these 'blue coat' soldiers have one helluva view!

But there's trouble brewing they are surrounded by Indians who are not happy with the encroachment of white men on their ancestral land. When the Indians take the horses and supplies of three rough and tumble backwoods man...the woodsman (Victor Mature, James Whitmore, Pat Hogan) have no choice but to hire on as scouts at Fort Shallan.

What's cool is the way Victor Mature plays this uneducated, crude but childlike frontiers man. He see's a woman and wants to make her his 'squaw'. The only problem is the woman (Anne Bancroft) is already married to a blood thirsty Colonel (Robert Preston) who's hell bent to attack the Indians even though it means almost certain defeat.

This is based on a novel and it feels abbreviated like chunks of the story is missing. Still I liked the setting and the way Victor Mature played the back woodsman.

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I'm a big fan of Errol Flynn, not the greatest actor and yes he does have this smugness but that's part of the reason I like him on the screen. Did you see Kevin Kline as Errol Flynn in the bio pic The Last of Robin Hood (2013)?
Never heard of it. I see that it's got a pretty strong cast, but the reviews are poor. You recommend it?

Sorry that you didn't get more out of Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid since I suggested it to you, but at least you can check off another entry on our current westerns list. I initially complained about Kristofferson being too old for the part (he's Billy the Man instead of Billy the Kid), but I've seen the movie enough times now that his casting is no longer an issue. I've always dug Bob Dylan's role. Sure, he's not much of an actor, but he's not asked to do much either. I love the interrogation scene where he's in the background reading cans. ("Beans . . . beans . . . lima beans . . . salmon . . . beans . . . quality beans.") Agree to disagree on his contribution to the score, which I think really enhances the elegiac tone of the film. I'm assuming you've seen Peckinpah's most famous western, The Wild Bunch? If you're not a fan of it then it's safe to say Peckinpah's probably not your bag. He is to revisionist westerns what Sergio Leone is to spaghetti westerns.

The Outlaw Josey Wales is a lock for my ballot, although you might be onto something with its lack of memorability. I've seen the movie numerous times, yet I struggle to recall significant chunks of the plot. Still think it's one of Eastwood's finest westerns, in front or behind the camera. Like you, I was also underwhelmed with Shane and wanted to strangle that annoying kid. Ever since watching Logan, which is clearly inspired by and even directly references Shane at one point, I've been meaning to give it another shot to see if I can better understand its classic status. Doubt I do so before the deadline, but who knows. Not familiar with your other recent watches.

Watched Mackenna's Gold earlier. Very flawed western, but flawed in interesting, weird ways that make for an entertaining, one-of-a-kind viewing. It also featured some of the most stunning on-location shots that I've seen. Apparently the film was a massive box-office success in the Soviet Union and remains one of their highest-grossing films, which is just . . . random.
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I'm planning on rewatching a couple movies I've seen years ago which I have a good memory of, but don't remember the actual plot. Among them: The Big Country, The Ox Bow Incident, My Darling Clementine, The Wild Bunch and The Outlaw Josey Wales.


I've seen The Ballad of Buster Scruggs recently and have enjoyed it A LOT. I'd suggest it to anyone. A mix of humor, beautiful cinematography and quite shocking stories.
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Nope I haven't seen those. I might get around to them one of these days, but as there's only 12 days left I'm focusing on more well known westerns.


They aren't well-known Westerns?

Man... that makes me sad... But, they're so good, and so hawt! You don't know what you're missing.





They aren't well-known Westerns?

Man... that makes me sad... But, they're so good, and so hawt! You don't know what you're missing.
I've never heard of them either as far as I can remember. I'm going to try to watch Hannie Caulder, although anything with George Eastman is tempting.