Trump vs Hillary Debate Thread

Not really much disputing the fact that she won. Trump and his surrogates have been reduced to touting self-selected online polls, which are a joke.

Alot of people were saying Trump was coked up. I doubt it, but if youre giving off that impression, its safe to say he lost. I just hope he loses when it counts.

It isn't so much she won it as he lost it. For about fifteen minutes he was doing okay. She was quite terrible at the beginning where he dominated talking about jobs and she was weak with a poor strategy of trying to focus on criticizing him for tax cuts for the rich, which made him sound like just another Republican running for President. She should have shown some guts and defended free trade and pointed out Trump's plan would mean huge increases on what we pay for...well, practically everything. Trump made it sound like free trade was a Democratic Party idea, which it certainly isn't. The biggest free traders in Congress are Republicans, his own supposed party. But then when the conversation got on him and his taxes, business practices, and treatment of women he had a meltdown and he never recovered. She was also much better than him on foreign policy.


It's probably over. That wasn't your standard bad debate performance. It was a colossal fail for Trump. The polls are only showing a slight bump for Clinton from it and he has shown an ability to come back from previous bad moments, but I'm predicting he won't recover from this one. He has compounded the debate loss by his idiotic tweets going after the ex Miss Universe. We're one month from election day and he can't afford to be doing this crap anymore. He has to stay on message and he can't do it.

It's normal to have many parties in congress. Only the US among major democratic countries has only two parties in congress.

Other countries usually have many parties besides the major ones so that if the major ones pick crappy candidates there is still hope.

Japanese house of representatives has 9 parties:

Government (325):
LDP (290)
Kōmeitō (35)

Opposition (148):
DP (71)
Innovation (21)
JCP (21)
Initiatives (13)
Vision (5)
SDP/Shimin Rengō (2)
PLP(2)
Independents (13)

German parliament with about 6 political parties:

Government (503)

CDU/CSU (310)
CDU (254)
CSU (56)
SPD (193)

Opposition Parties (127)

The Left (64)
Alliance '90/The Greens (63)

And look at the Brazilian house of representatives with 28 political parties:

Government (289)

PP, PTB, PSC Bloc (74)
PP (47)
PTB (19)
PSC (8)
PMDB, PEN Bloc (71)
PMDB (68)
PEN (3)
PT (57)
PR (40)
PDT (19)
PTN, PTdoB, PSL Bloc (18)
PTN (13)
PTdoB (3)
PSL (2)
PCdoB (10)

Opposition (224)

PSDB (51)
PSD (36)
PSB (31)
DEM (29)
PRB (22)
SD (14)
PPS (9)
PHS (7)
PV (7)
PROS (6)
PSOL (6)
REDE (4)
PMB (1)
No party (1)

The US political system is really weird and sick: it creates excessive hostility between the two parties and fractions the population and the regions of the country among the two parties. If the US had many parties, the rivalry between any two parties would be much smaller as well as the dynamism of the political system would be improved.

In Brazil though we are at the other end with too many parties, that happens because the legislation and the political system make it advantageous for new parties to form all the time.

It's the problem with the US's political system: they only have two parties and the two parties do not allow anybody else to get into politics, they monopolize the debates which means that they do not even recognize the possibility other parties might get into the debate.


Why should third parties be in the debates? They are irrelevant. There isn't one Libertarian in Congress. The libertarians should do what the tea party people did and try to take over the Republican Party. Gary Johnson isn't that far from a Republican and certainly closer than Donald Trump.


Marco Rubio four years from now, ho-ho. He'll run, but there will be new faces in town four years from now and he will look like yesterday's news. I think also even the GOP has had enough of the neocons and he is the king of it.

Well, you clearly did not understand my point.

My prediction for the Vice Presidential debate... it will be far more substantive.
That's not a hard prediction to make because they usually are.
For them it's less of a personality contest and more about the issues.

One other thing I REALLY predict... I don't know anything about Mike Pence beyond his look, but I get the feeling that when we see him on the debate stage, we'll all be wondering why HE is not the Republican candidate running for President instead of the circus sideshow performer that was nominated.

P.S. Kaine just seems very creepy and weaselly, (I guess a perfect partner for the lying witch he's running with).

Whatever. I think Pence looks like an SS officer.

__________________
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. - John Wooden
My IMDb page

Ha-ha! I thought he looks like a military person (if you want to place him as a German military officer in the 40's that's fine). He has no military background (just the haircut) but his father was a veteran.

Anyway, it's better than looking like a guy who pulls up to a playground in a minivan and says, "Hey, sonny? Wanna help me look for my puppy? He's lost. If you help me I've got some candy for you. Hop in!"



vs.

And by 2020 they'll have had enough of losing Presidential elections. This same thought process--with healthcare mandates in place of neoconservatism--would've had you dismiss Romney's chances in 2012, too (which I think you actually did, at one point). He'd already run before, too, but primary voters get very pragmatic when they've been out of power. And whatever "new faces" show up, it's hard to imagine many of them will be more electable than Rubio. Which isn't to say he'll win: just that I think he should. And at the moment he's probably the single-best guess.

Nikki Haley will be the Marco Rubio of 2020.

This is way WAY out there... but last night I watched Deadpool.

There's a part where he meets "Agent Smith" the Recruiter (played by actor Jed Rees).

As soon as Smith appeared I thought it remarkable how much he looks like Hillary's running mate, Tim Kaine (see my post a couple posts back with the photos). Okay, so big deal, right?

Then Wade Wilson (Deadpool) starts making jokes about Smith's appearance and making innuendos that he looks like some kind of child molester who would lure children into a "panel van!" (In that former post I had made similar innuendos about Kaine... who looks like Agent Smith). At one point Deadpool calls Smith "Jared" (referencing the former Subway spokesman who was indicted on child porn charges).

This was just too much coincidence: Kaine looks like the actor that played Agent Smith in a movie I'd never seen before.
I say Kaine looks like a child molester before ever seeing the movie, then the main character in the movie says Kaine's look-a-like in the movie looks like a child molester.

Actor Jed Rees and Tim Kaine:

Kaine is way too flamboyant. It's like having a two women ticket

__________________

"My prediction for the Vice Presidential debate... it will be far more substantive.
One other thing I REALLY predict... I don't know anything about Mike Pence beyond his look, but I get the feeling that when we see him on the debate stage, we'll all be wondering why HE is not the Republican candidate running for President instead of the circus sideshow performer that was nominated.
"

What did I tell you?

Aside from the interruptions, this sounds far more like a debate.
(Kaine seems like he came out interrupting Pence more than Trump interrupted Hillary.)

Pence looks & sounds terrific. He's giving me the thrill up my leg that Obama gave to Chris Matthews!

Pence for President!

...and I'm not gettin' into Kaine's panel van no matter how much candy he offers me!

If by some miracle Trump is elected, he will be impeached for misuse of executive powers, making Pence Pres.

I'll say this, if these were the candidates and this was the only Presidential debate, I think about 3/4 of Americans would elect Pence right now.

I'll give Kaine credit for sounding (sounding mind you) like his and Hillary's plans are more detailed & thought out. Whereas Pence is doing a better job than Trump of trying to convince people that "we have a plan" for various areas, but like Trump, he isn't clearly outlining these plans in detail.

To be fair, no one is truly able to outline their plans in detail in a debate - the idea of the debate is to promote your own stances while refuting those of your opponent, project charisma. sound intelligent, gauge credibility and gain trust.

And as far as I'm concerned, Hillary lost all credibility and trust a long time ago, and a few campaign speeches are not enough to undue decades of lies.

pence is flailing. just straight up denying things that trump has said several times and not answering a single question.

__________________
letterboxd
criticker

Well, I'm biased against Hillary - I'll admit that any day of the week.
So I'm not hearing it that way.

Yes, a lot of things Trump said are indefensible. But it sounds like Pence is doing a good job of trying to dismiss all the rhetoric and instead focus on the issues that are actually important: national security, fighting terrorism, rebuilding the military, improving the economy, reforming the tax system, reforming immigration & stopping terrorist nations from getting nuclear weapons (as opposed to paying them ransom money and paving their path to nuclear armament).

Since Pence is focusing on the issues and less on the "he said, she said" wars, he sounds more Presidential than either of the candidates.

pence has still yet to give any specifics, except for maybe one or two things that are blatant contradictions of things that trump has said, and kaine has clearly and coherently laid out his and clinton's stance on several issues.

also it's so delicious that the campaign that loves to complain about our "PC culture" is whining about insults that are literally just repeating things the candidate has said.

Let me know if you (or anyone) would agree with me on this...

First, I lost interest in the Trump / Clinton debate after about 15 minutes (once the reality TV aspect of how they were going to react to each other wore off). It felt more like the satirical SNL skit than the SNL skit. But I'm watching this debate with great interest, because it seems like an actual debate.

The thing I'm wondering if anyone would agree with - does anyone else just have the feeling that they wish these two were the Presidential candidates instead of the two deplorable reprobates that are running? Does anyone else wish there was some way, right now, that we could just dump Trump & Hillary and elect one of these guys instead?