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The Long Goodby (1973)

"We've got a script but we don't follow it closely." Robert Altman

The Long Goodbye, a fun watch at times thanks to Elliot Gould's 'I don't care' attitude, that he in-vibes into the often portrayed Philip Marlowe. But it's the 'let's party' Robert Altman's directorial style that takes a would be noir and turns it into a big budget version of a student film.

One can't call Elliot Gould's performance as acting in the traditional sense. Though there's no denying he has enough anti-establishment air about him to make his wise cracking lines be the highlight of the film.

Perhaps if Altman wasn't so relaxed about his movie making duties as a director he wouldn't have allowed so many improvised scenes. Those improvisations sometimes work to the film's advantage. But other times like the third scene where veteran actor Sterling Hayden plays a drunk, by actually being drunk and stoned, we get a sloppy performance where a stupor Sterling constantly forgets his cues and blows his lines. It would be wrong to blame Mr Hayden for that mess, the credit albeit a dour one goes to the director who likes to shoot film stock but has a hard time buckling down and keeping to a vision.

That lack of directorial vision shows up in the wild tonal shifts that plaque the production. The acting ranges from ecliptic but suitable (Gould) to downright horrible. Much of the time the movie felt like an old TV episode of Starsky and Hutch complete with cool detectives, a cool car and zany over the top bad guys all set in a cartoon caper.

And what's with the women in this so called noir? All the younger woman act like brainless manikins. The would-be femme fatale (Nina van Pallandt) can't act and is played as a helpless character who can't find her way out of a paper bag. And do I really need to mention Bambi and her 3 friends who live across from Marlowe and are as clueless as the movie's plot is?

Like I said a fun watch, but I wish the film's director had staid more focused.

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And what's with the women in this so called noir? All the younger woman act like brainless manikins. The would-be femme fatale (Nina van Pallandt) can't act and is played as a helpless character who can't find her way out of a paper bag. And do I really need to mention Bambi and her 3 friends who live across from Marlowe and are as clueless as the movie's plot is?



Well the girls across the street are on drugs, which is set up on the first scene.



@SpelingError Pretty cool that you're watching the noms in alphabetical order. Makes it easy for me to add them to the first post.
Yeah, I always do that for HoFs. It's a tradition of mine.
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Citizen literally describing what I love about Altman as negatives. The awkward party scene definitely in contention for my favorite in the movie. Probably the scene with Hayden and Gould by themselves outside on the patio is my fave though. That or the ending. One of my favorite endings ever.



The Long Goodby (1973)

"We've got a script but we don't follow it closely." Robert Altman

... But it's the 'let's party' Robert Altman's directorial style that takes a would be noir and turns it into a big budget version of a student film.
...

You made some great points, my man. Altman's film was a good example of some of the foolishness that was going on in the early '70s, exceeded only by some of the Limburger that we see today.

The film had its moments, but the chief problem was that Gould made a terrible Marlowe. In fact of the 7 or so U.S. Chandler/Marlowe films, Gould definitely is anchored at the very bottom. Even though Marlowe is a complex character, my guess is that Gould has the chops to bring off a good portrayal, but he would need better writing and better direction.

To me The Long Goodbye was a missed opportunity, and sits as a mere curio from the late Hippie era.



Citizen literally describing what I love about Altman as negatives. The awkward party scene definitely in contention for my favorite in the movie. Probably the scene with Hayden and Gould by themselves outside on the patio is my fave though. That or the ending. One of my favorite endings ever.
Of the three Sterling Hayden scenes (the medical center, the patio scene, and the drunken party scene) my favorite would also be, the outside patio scene. In that scene Altman's style of filming whatever happens works and works well...To me that's the tragedy of Altman, he has the ability to capture worthwhile scenes on film but his lax filming style just as often produces mediocre results, like the other two Hayden scenes.



The film had its moments, but the chief problem was that Gould made a terrible Marlowe. In fact of the 7 or so U.S. Chandler/Marlowe films, Gould definitely is anchored at the very bottom.
I know this is an unpopular opinion but I actually like Gould's Marlowe more than Humphrey Bogart's.

I'll see myself out haha.



Of the three Sterling Hayden scenes (the medical center, the patio scene, and the drunken party scene) my favorite would also be, the outside patio scene. In that scene Altman's style of filming whatever happens works and works well...To me that's the tragedy of Altman, he has the ability to capture worthwhile scenes on film but his lax filming style just as often produces mediocre results, like the other two Hayden scenes.
I nominated Nashville for my second HOF, and it got crushed. His shaggy dog style isn’t for everyone it appears. I love him. Long Goodbye is one of my favorite movies period.



I know this is an unpopular opinion but I actually like Gould's Marlowe more than Humphrey Bogart's.

I'll see myself out haha.
Me too. Although I like Bogart’s too. I really don’t think much about them playing the same character till people start bringing it up. I have no attachment to the novels though. Long Goodbye is its own thing for sure. If you are viewing it through the lens of comparison to complicated plot heavy Noir, you will certainly find flaws. I don’t think Altman was going for that.



I nominated Nashville for my second HOF, and it got crushed. His shaggy dog style isn’t for everyone it appears. I love him. Long Goodbye is one of my favorite movies period.
I didn't care for Nashville on my one viewing, but I think if I watched it now I might appreciate it. I do like a personal style, unstructured, unHollywood film, but only if it's done with deliberate care. Altman at least in The Long Goodbye made me think of a director who didn't really know what he wanted to show and was just shooting it, as he went along.

Take the bad guy (Mark Rydell) and his gang. Mostly they seem like comic relief with one of the henchmen being a goof, hanging on the gate looking at the topless girls like an overgrown teen instead of properly tailing Philip Marlow. Also...the 'let's take off our clothes scene' which must have been only included in the film so that the audience could see Arnold Schwarzenegger muscles...but then there's the brutal coke bottle blow to the girl's face, that ruins the more lighter comic tone of the bad guys. At the end of the day, the gang leader has his money back with no real resolve and is happy as a clam again.

I think Altman is an unfocused director (at least at the start of his career), he got lucky with a couple of anti-establishment films but never really achieved much greatness after that. Still I'd like to see more of his filmography.





The Truth / La Vérité (1960)
Directed By: Henri-Georges Clouzot
Starring: Brigitte Bardot, Sami Frey, Paul Meurisse


La Vérité is a courtroom drama centred around the clashing morals of two generations. A young woman's sexual liberation is just as much on trial as the alleged murder of her ex-boyfriend, with a jury not of her peers, but older men ready to allow her promiscuity to dictate their perception of her character. I found both the legal proceedings themselves as well as the flashbacks of Dominique's life to be quite engaging, and the runtime seemed to just fly by.

Warning: potential spoilers below.


It's interesting how my opinion of certain characters changed over the course of the film. I did not like Dominique's entitled attitude at the start, but by the end I was quite sympathetic towards her. On the flipside, Gilbert seemed like a sensible young man in the beginning, and I felt bad for him waiting on Dominique, but he quickly became a controlling and emotionally abusive partner who I despised. This shift is clearly intended to occur as the story unfolds, but for some reason that's not the route I expected the film to take, so I was pleasantly surprised by it.

Dominique's final outburst to the court, where she refused to come to terms with what her relationship with Gilbert truly was, had quite the emotional impact. But what I really loved about the film was the unceremonious ending to the case. Everyone quickly dispersed and things went back to normal once they heard the news, which was pretty telling about how insignificant Dominique and her plight were to the community at large.


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I was just reading on Wiki about The Long Goodbye and came across this:

Altman and Brackett spent a lot of time talking over the plot. Altman wanted Marlowe to be a loser. He even nicknamed Gould's character Rip Van Marlowe, as if he had been asleep for 20 years, had woken up, and was wandering around Los Angeles in the early 1970s but "trying to invoke the morals of a previous era"
Other than Marlowe's old car and some old furniture in his house, I didn't get any idea he was acting like a man from the 1950s. If he had called a young woman a 'dame or a broad' and the woman then tells him he's a 'male chauvinist pig', that would've made the point that he was a throwback to the 50s and been poignant for 1973, it would've been witty and funny...and would've helped make him a man out of time.

He also smoked in every scene, but people smoked like crazy in the early 70s anyway so that's not a clue that he's like Rip Van Marlowe...But if one or two people had scolded him for smoking as it's unhealthy, then that would've set up a juxtaposition between smoking in the 50s and in the 70s. But Altman never bothered to do any of this.

If anybody can explain to me how Marlowe's behavior and or actions was shown to be out of steep with 1973, I'm all ears



I didn't care for Nashville on my one viewing, but I think if I watched it now I might appreciate it. I do like a personal style, unstructured, unHollywood film, but only if it's done with deliberate care. Altman at least in The Long Goodbye made me think of a director who didn't really know what he wanted to show and was just shooting it, as he went along.

Take the bad guy (Mark Rydell) and his gang. Mostly they seem like comic relief with one of the henchmen being a goof, hanging on the gate looking at the topless girls like an overgrown teen instead of properly tailing Philip Marlow. Also...the 'let's take off our clothes scene' which must have been only included in the film so that the audience could see Arnold Schwarzenegger muscles...but then there's the brutal coke bottle blow to the girl's face, that ruins the more lighter comic tone of the bad guys. At the end of the day, the gang leader has his money back with no real resolve and is happy as a clam again.

I think Altman is an unfocused director (at least at the start of his career), he got lucky with a couple of anti-establishment films but never really achieved much greatness after that. Still I'd like to see more of his filmography.
Oh no, Short Cuts, The Player, and Gosford Park are all fantastic. No luck, he’s one of the great directors. I need to watch Prarie Home Companion this weekend. That’s really well regarded and I haven’t watched it yet.



Oh no, Short Cuts, The Player, and Gosford Park are all fantastic. No luck, he’s one of the great directors. I need to watch Prarie Home Companion this weekend. That’s really well regarded and I haven’t watched it yet.
I've not seen those three. But I have heard good things about Gosford Park. I did see A Prairie Home Companion, just to see Virginia Madsen I remember liking the movie but that was like 20 years ago. I like to see it again.



I was just reading on Wiki about The Long Goodbye and came across this:

Other than Marlowe's old car and some old furniture in his house, I didn't get any idea he was acting like a man from the 1950s. If he had called a young woman a 'dame or a broad' and the woman then tells him he's a 'male chauvinist pig', that would've made the point that he was a throwback to the 50s and been poignant for 1973, it would've been witty and funny...and would've helped make him a man out of time.

He also smoked in every scene, but people smoked like crazy in the early 70s anyway so that's not a clue that he's like Rip Van Marlowe...But if one or two people had scolded him for smoking as it's unhealthy, then that would've set up a juxtaposition between smoking in the 50s and in the 70s. But Altman never bothered to do any of this.

If anybody can explain to me how Marlowe's behavior and or actions was shown to be out of steep with 1973, I'm all ears
I’m with you on this point. Doesn’t feel like a man out of time. Loser, in the traditional sense I guess. I read his as more counter culture though.

I didn’t grow up in the 70”s either, but I don’t think his values would have been out of place in the 80”s either.



I've not seen those three. But I have heard good things about Gosford Park. I did see A Prairie Home Companion, just to see Virginia Madsen I remember liking the movie but that was like 20 years ago. I like to see it again.
I think you would like Gosford Park. Probably not the other two, but they are essential so I would definitely find out for myself if I were you.




It's interesting how my opinion of certain characters changed over the course of the film. I did not like Dominique's entitled attitude at the start, but by the end I was quite sympathetic towards her. On the flipside, Gilbert seemed like a sensible young man in the beginning, and I felt bad for him waiting on Dominique, but he quickly became a controlling and emotionally abusive partner who I despised. This shift is clearly intended to occur as the story unfolds, but for some reason that's not the route I expected the film to take, so I was pleasantly surprised by it.

Dominique's final outburst to the court, where she refused to come to terms with what her relationship with Gilbert truly was, had quite the emotional impact. But what I really loved about the film was the unceremonious ending to the case. Everyone quickly dispersed and things went back to normal once they heard the news, which was pretty telling about how insignificant Dominique and her plight were to the community at large.[/color]
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I think the shift is definitely deliberate and meant to change our perception. Really show us how our prejudices guide us, and how we look at women and men differently regarding sexual ethics. I love this about the movie as well. She is still guilty, but that’s not what the movie is about, and I love that about the film as well.



I think you would like Gosford Park. Probably not the other two, but they are essential so I would definitely find out for myself if I were you.
Thanks, good advice. BTW I did have fun watching The Long Goodbye, I just wish I had directed it Too many things I'd like to change.



Women will be your undoing, Pépé


The Truth / La Vérité (1960)
Directed By: Henri-Georges Clouzot
Starring: Brigitte Bardot, Sami Frey, Paul Meurisse


La Vérité is a courtroom drama centred around the clashing morals of two generations. A young woman's sexual liberation is just as much on trial as the alleged murder of her ex-boyfriend, with a jury not of her peers, but older men ready to allow her promiscuity to dictate their perception of her character. I found both the legal proceedings themselves as well as the flashbacks of Dominique's life to be quite engaging, and the runtime seemed to just fly by.

Warning: potential spoilers below.


It's interesting how my opinion of certain characters changed over the course of the film. I did not like Dominique's entitled attitude at the start, but by the end I was quite sympathetic towards her. On the flipside, Gilbert seemed like a sensible young man in the beginning, and I felt bad for him waiting on Dominique, but he quickly became a controlling and emotionally abusive partner who I despised. This shift is clearly intended to occur as the story unfolds, but for some reason that's not the route I expected the film to take, so I was pleasantly surprised by it.

Dominique's final outburst to the court, where she refused to come to terms with what her relationship with Gilbert truly was, had quite the emotional impact. But what I really loved about the film was the unceremonious ending to the case. Everyone quickly dispersed and things went back to normal once they heard the news, which was pretty telling about how insignificant Dominique and her plight were to the community at large.


***ADDITIONAL SPOILERS***

Like you, I was very happy with the arcs and switching of who we felt for regarding Dominique and Gilbert. Thinking one way on the initial meeting and then, as we learn about either, it switches around completely.
As well as the two lawyers. It was refreshing to see the La Vérité of two professionals doing their job and not the usual heartfelt, emotionally involved facade that is the norm for courtroom dramas. We see them converse as friends before and after. Talking shop with one another. It's another day, another case. I liked that honesty. It actually gave more gravitas to it. And, as you mentioned, how indifferent the community truly was to Dominque.
Same for the ending regarding the news the courtroom receives, which was quite a surprise the first time and took it to the upper echelon of it's genre for me.
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