1930s Hall of Fame

Women will be your undoing, P�p�

07-02-18

Originally Posted by cricket

It seems that a lot of the film's fans feel the same as you, as I saw many people praising the style. I feel the same, but I was also surprised to love the story, performances, and especially the humor.

It really comes together in this movie on all levels, doesn't it?

Originally Posted by CosmicRunaway

I did thoroughly enjoy Sophie/Catherine's story, and found most of the performances to be engaging. John Davis Lodge was incredibly charming, and Louise Dresser never failed to be entertaining. The only one I didn't really like was Sam Jaffe. Well, one scene of his I did love:

View Spoilers

WARNING: "The Scarlet Empress" spoilers below

His dismissal of the people coming to congratulate him on "fathering" a son.

I did enjoy the story, but I was too engrossed in the visuals to really say anything substantial about it in my post. I sometimes get so carried away talking about cinematography that I forget to mention the rest of the film haha.

I had a bit of a problem with him as well.
Except for that scene as well. It was the one redeeming scene for the actor.

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cricket

Msg

Registered User

07-02-18

Bachelor Mother

SPOILERS
I read a quick synopsis somewhere before watching that said she finds a foundling. I didn't know what that was, but for some reason I thought it had something to do with ducks. When it then shows her working with all those ducks, I couldn't believe I was right. Of course after a few minutes, I found out I wasn't. When her co-worker invited her to the dance contest, I thought that was super awesome. I would have liked to have seen her show off some more, but it was still a good touch. It's a cute movie and both Rogers and Niven are fun to watch. I liked the first half a bit more before it got slightly more serious. I was hoping to find out what happened with the original parents at some point but I don't have any real complaints. It's a very pleasant movie but I don't think it's particularly memorable. I liked the Gunga Din reference.

pahaK

Anti-Woke

07-03-18

The Scarlet Empress (1934) N

Historically very inaccurate depiction of Catherine the Great's rise to power.

The Scarlet Empress is moderately entertaining film with beautiful sets, decent acting and surprisingly light approach to the subject. Its narration is quite fast paced only slowed down by occasional shoots of highly stylized and bizarre (and, I assume, very unrealistic) Russian architecture and one extremely prolonged wedding scene. Its strength is definitely the aesthetics while the story does have some gaping holes.

From the movie's point of view the whole coup comes from nowhere (well, there's one title card telling us that she charmed the army). I found it very awkward how the film doesn't bother to give any reasons why Catherine is loved and how she could turn others against Peter so easily. The whole transition from silly girl to proper monarch is almost completely ignored. For me that's the single biggest flaw of the movie.

Historically the film is completely absurd. Marlene Dietrich is way too old for Catherine, Sam Jaffe is even more too old for Peter (I think they were 16 and 17 at the wedding). They had met years before the marriage, Empress liked Catherine, etc. It's so flawed that even at my rudimentary knowledge of the subject it started to bother quite a bit. I think historical films should be little more accurate (or honestly be alternate history or complete fantasy).

Mostly entertaining pseudo-historical film that relies on style over substance in its purely fictional depiction of factual events.

cricket

Msg

Registered User

07-03-18

Not a bad rating by your standards.

Am I the only one who sees the movie as a comedy?

Citizen Rules

Noir Time

07-03-18

Gunga Din (1939) *spoilers*

I liked it, it was a fun watch...And it certainly had high production values. The on location shooting did wonders for the look of the movie. I loved those bleak, sun scorched rocks...and that hidden temple, very cool! I read that this was a very expensive film to make and I can believe it.

Some say this film is racist? For this to be racist it would've had to intentionally demean or make the Indians looks foolish, it didn't do that. In fact it did the opposite. It took an Indian, Gunga Din to save the three British soldiers and the entire British army from doom. Think about that.

And the Indians are NOT the bad guys, it's the members of the Thuggee cult who are the baddies. The Thuggee's were a real cult, that once was said to have killed 30,000 people a year in ritualistic murders. The cult leader was shown to be highly intelligent, self controlled and he outsmarted the bubbling, greedy British soldiers who were looking to steal gold.

I was impressed with the scene where the cult leader tells Cary Grant that his army is just as large, just as well trained and just as well equipment as the British. Does that sound like the movie is trying to belittle the native people? They looked pretty darn capable to me.

Yes it has so called brown face. In fact according to IMDB, RKO studio wanted a native born Indian to play Gunga Din, but he was unavailable, so they had to go with Sam Jaffe.

Sabu was the first choice to play Gunga Din; when it became clear he was unavailable, Sam Jaffe was hired in his place. In an interview years later, Jaffe (a Jewish Russian-American) was asked how he so convincingly played an Indian Hindu. Jaffe replied he kept telling himself to "Think Sabu."

BTW...ask yourself this, in 1939 how many Indian actors were there in Hollywood? About zero....So it's not surprising the studio used contract actors to play the other parts. I mean they're filming in California not Bombay.

I'm glad this film was nominated as it gave me a chance to see it again.

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Last edited by Citizen Rules; 07-04-18 at 03:31 AM.

CosmicRunaway

Winner by Default

07-04-18

Originally Posted by cricket

Am I the only one who sees the movie as a comedy?

While I'm not sure I would call it a comedy per se, there were certainly a number of comedic elements to the film, and it didn't have an overly serious tone.

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pahaK

Anti-Woke

07-04-18

Originally Posted by cricket

Not a bad rating by your standards.

Am I the only one who sees the movie as a comedy?

I think comedy would be little exaggeration but the tone was certainly much lighter than I expected. And yes, it's definitely among the better old films I've seen more or less recently.

Also I forgot to mention one thing in my review. While the sets were nice they often looked small and many scenes had crammed feel to them. It's probably a budget matter and while generally a flaw I think it actually helped a scene or two (like the wedding, it made me think the narrow-mindedness of religion and tradition in general).

Nathaniel

Mugen Impersonator

07-04-18

Gunga Din (1939)

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I remember watching this when I was younger. I vaguely remember liking it.

The humour which is meant to carry the film just doesn't work all that well and actually hurts the film at certain moments. There's a couple of times where tension is wasted by the score or through poorly timed humour. It reminded me of a Carry On film though without fully committing to the overt goofiness. Therefore when the tone does shift to drama, I found it jarring and hard to connect with. I generally find Cary Grant funny but I found his accent constantly distracting here. It's just ridiculous. Maybe, his constant mugging to the camera is meant to distract from it.

Admittedly, there are some impressive set pieces. Backed up by a score when not intrusive is quite rousing. Just throw bagpipes in there and I'll likely find it rousing. The pacing starts to wane a bit in the second half with a bizarre sequence at the temple going on way too long. As an epic it worked at the time in terms of entertainment but I was hoping for something more consistent.

Like others here, I did not find any of the potentially racist elements off-putting but it's not surprising that people viewing this film today might find the brownface offensive. Citizen provides a good context for why it was used. However, the complaints about stereotyping are a bit harsh in my opinion.

I'm glad I got to see it again but I wasn't feeling it.

Citizen Rules

Noir Time

07-04-18

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

Gunga Din (1939)

I generally find Cary Grant funny but I found his accent constantly distracting here. It's just ridiculous.

I felt the same, his Cockney or whatever it was accent was too obvious and took me out of his character. Cosmic noticed it too.

Cary Grant is one of my favorite actors, but here I couldn't really warm up to his character.

The pacing starts to wane a bit in the second half with a bizarre sequence at the temple going on way too long. As an epic it worked at the time in terms of entertainment but I was hoping for something more consistent.

I was thinking the opposite that the first hour or so seemed to meander and not do much, then once they get to the temple the story starts focusing more. I suppose though it depends on what story line a person wants to follow: the comradeship of the three soldiers, one who is leaving to get married. Or...the temple scene. It's almost like two different movies. I watched a bit of the commentary with Rudy Behlmer, good stuff! He said that in the 1940s the film was re-released and had 30 minutes removed from the first part of the film. I wonder what that would be like?

Nathaniel

Mugen Impersonator

07-04-18

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules

I felt the same, his Cockney or whatever it was accent was too obvious and took me out of his character. Cosmic noticed it too.

It's just totally noticeable when he has to raise his voice then lower it in the same scene it completely shifts back & forth. I would have preferred the film with someone else as the lead but I guess Grant was a star in 1939 so they didn't think twice about it.

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules

I wasn't particularly enjoying the first half either but it was ok. I think that during the temple scene, the tone goes off the rails and that's why I found myself losing interest. If they had committed to switching to drama once they reach the temple I would have enjoyed it more but they keep the humour and OTT mugging going when it doesn't fit. Really odd.

So the film was cut to 90 minutes in the re-release? Sounds interesting but it probably takes away a lot of the comradery. Did Behlmer say why they re-released?

edarsenal

Women will be your undoing, P�p�

07-04-18

Getting more and more excited to see Gunga Din. Rented yesterday from the library, along with Bachelor Mother, which I watched last night and really enjoyed. Should be putting a review up this evening.

And with the Empress, I would definitely say it has comedic elements while not a comedy per se. But I do see how it can easily be seen as one.
And yes, @pahaK, historically, it is way off base, but I'm too much of a fan of Dietrich and enjoyed it visually to take it as anything historical.

SOOO many films I love that are historically incorrect that I've learned never to take them as fact and more as entertainment.

Citizen Rules

Noir Time

07-04-18

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

...So the film was cut to 90 minutes in the re-release? Sounds interesting but it probably takes away a lot of the comradery. Did Behlmer say why they re-released?

Behlmer said it was cut to 90 minutes for the re-release so that it could be shown as a double bill in the theater.

pahaK

Anti-Woke

07-04-18

Originally Posted by edarsenal

And yes, @pahaK, historically, it is way off base, but I'm too much of a fan of Dietrich and enjoyed it visually to take it as anything historical.

SOOO many films I love that are historically incorrect that I've learned never to take them as fact and more as entertainment.

Maybe my review (written in the middle of the night and tired) emphasizes the historical inaccuracy a bit too much. I'm not really a history purist when it comes to movies but there are cases when filmmakers do something that starts to bug me. It didn't by any means ruin The Scarlet Empress and I guess my main issue with the changes made is that they actually weakened the story, not the fact that they're historically wrong.

CosmicRunaway

Winner by Default

07-04-18

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules

I was thinking the opposite that the first hour or so seemed to meander and not do much, then once they get to the temple the story starts focusing more.

I felt the same way. When I was first writing notes about what to cover in my write-up, I had scribbled down that I thought a lot of the first hour could've been cut, however I did change my mind later when I decided that I did actually like those scenes for their camaraderie. I do still prefer the latter parts of the film, and those are the only scenes I had remembered (other than the scene where MacChesney gives the elephant the medicine).

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

However, the complaints about stereotyping are a bit harsh in my opinion.

This reminds me of something I meant to bring up earlier:

While I agree with what Citizen said in his review about Gunga Din being the hero who has to rescue the foolish British soldiers (since that is how I saw it as well), there are other arguments for why the film's racial views are troubling that sort of twist that sentiment around. Some feel that Gunga Din's behaviour - namely his loyalty and willingness to obey British rule - is meant to set the standard for how all Indians should act, and that it glorifies both the British Raj and Colonialist perceptions of the world. While I can see how that is a bit disconcerting, I don't agree with that reading of the film since it seems like a consequence of the premise, and not a point the filmmakers were actively trying to promote.

I don't necessarily think that the people who claim that the film is racist are just grasping at straws, but I don't think any of the issues present are actually intentional.

Citizen Rules

Noir Time

07-04-18

Originally Posted by CosmicRunaway

I was making mental notes during the film, though by the next day when I wrote the review, I forgot most of them

...I liked the first part of the movie, as I tend to like films where we just hang out and not too much happens.

Some feel that Gunga Din's behavior - namely his loyalty and willingness to obey British rule - is meant to set the standard for how all Indians should act, and that it glorifies both the British Raj and Colonialist perceptions of the world. While I can see how that is a bit disconcerting, I don't agree with that reading of the film since it seems like a consequence of the premise, and not a point the filmmakers were actively trying to promote...

I've seen films that do make ethnic groups look horribly silly/ignorant etc, but I didn't see any thing like that in Gunga Din and I looked for it!

I read that the character of Gunga Din was suppose to be a 'untouchable' in the Indian caste system, and that the film was making a point that the caste system was wrong (what we'd call racist today).

And the caste system was horribly racist, the light skinned Brahmas were considered to be the highest level in Indian society and had all the best jobs...while the darkest skinned Indians were lower on the social/economic ladder. This was all justified by the idea of karma and rebirth. Of course maybe the film was just trying to have a ripping good fun time

and didn't say anything about that?

pahaK

Anti-Woke

07-04-18

Originally Posted by CosmicRunaway

While I agree with what Citizen said in his review about Gunga Din being the hero who has to rescue the foolish British soldiers (since that is how I saw it as well), there are other arguments for why the film's racial views are troubling that sort of twist that sentiment around. Some feel that Gunga Din's behaviour - namely his loyalty and willingness to obey British rule - is meant to set the standard for how all Indians should act, and that it glorifies both the British Raj and Colonialist perceptions of the world. While I can see how that is a bit disconcerting, I don't agree with that reading of the film since it seems like a consequence of the premise, and not a point the filmmakers were actively trying to promote.

I don't necessarily think that the people who claim that the film is racist are just grasping at straws, but I don't think any of the issues present are actually intentional.

I actually agree with the pro-colonialist reading but I don't see any issue with it. The film is made during colonial era so to me it's obvious to read it that way. Is it racist? I suppose but why should I care? I don't have any need to be offended by old art embracing contemporary values.

Citizen Rules

Noir Time

07-04-18

Originally Posted by CosmicRunaway

...Some feel that Gunga Din's behaviour - namely his loyalty and willingness to obey British rule - is meant to set the standard for how all Indians should act, and that it glorifies both the British Raj and Colonialist perceptions of the world.

Cosmic, that was a good point, sorry I forgot to say that earlier...Yes, I could also see how people could view Gunga Din as a suck-up and then come to that conclusion.

While I can see how that is a bit disconcerting, I don't agree with that reading of the film since it seems like a consequence of the premise, and not a point the filmmakers were actively trying to promote.

I don't necessarily think that the people who claim that the film is racist are just grasping at straws, but I don't think any of the issues present are actually intentional.

You are indeed wise my friend

edarsenal

Women will be your undoing, P�p�

07-04-18

Originally Posted by pahaK

Well I definitely didn't take it as a Purist outlook and I do agree with what you have to say.
The weakened story can ruin an movie experience and I do read it as an observation and a valid one.

As for myself, I was expressing how I've learned from past frustrations when my own, personal, inner purist gets agitated. lol

edarsenal

Women will be your undoing, P�p�

07-04-18

Bachelor Mother

Like any proper screwball comedy, the premise should be outlandish and this has a fun little wind up and the pitch.
Ginger Rogers proves unequivocally that her comedic timing is equal to her dancing skill as she gets mistaken for a mother dropping off an unwanted baby. And then! In anticipation of @cricket's funny comment: "I read a quick synopsis somewhere before watching that said she finds a foundling. I didn't know what that was, but for some reason I thought it had something to do with ducks. When it then shows her working with all those ducks, I couldn't believe I was right. Of course after a few minutes, I found out I wasn't." The ducks! THE DUCKS! SO MANY DUCKS! (I actually thought that this was going to involve real ducks in a pond or some sort lol)
Thinking of the Cast Credits in Bride of Frankenstein, I had to chuckle to see that they even listed Donald Duck, played by: Himself.

Along with the shout out to Gunga Din I also caught the venue for another 30s film I need to see: Love Affair with Irene Dunne and Charles Boyer on their night out.
It was also nice to recognize Frank Albertson, playing Freddie, whom I've only known from It's a Wonderful Life where he plays Sam Wainwright ( the one who's always doing the "EeeYAW" every time you see him). I would have loved to seen more of Charles Coburn whom I love, but very, very happy enjoying Rogers and the flustered Nivens going back and forth.

There is one particular scene that really made me laugh. In the park, where there is another mother bragging about her child being physically ideal, or some such and they do a shot of both babies, the goofy look on the one baby's face made me laugh and back it up to see it again. It was frickin priceless.

A fun little romantic comedy, that. THANKS CR for nominating it!

Citizen Rules