I guess both have a rural setting, tell a restrained story, manage to look vibrant with a low budget, and ask questions with potentially supernatural answers, pitted against the possibility of mental illness. Kind of a lot of similarities, I guess, now that I think about it.

I guess both have a rural setting, tell a restrained story, manage to look vibrant with a low budget, and ask questions with potentially supernatural answers, pitted against the possibility of mental illness. Kind of a lot of similarities, I guess, now that I think about it.

If the storm didn't come at the end I would have preferred it! Seriously, I guessed the end before the beginning. It kind of ruin everything when it happens.

If the storm didn't come at the end I would have preferred it! Seriously, I guessed the end before the beginning. It kind of ruin everything when it happens.

Depending on your interpretation of what's actually happening during the ending, I think you can take away very different things from the film. We talk about this quite a bit, unless Yoda axes it (I doubt that he would, it's pretty important, but who knows! He's a man unhinged!).

It's possible that you may change your opinion on the ending with the different interpretations in mind. But maybe not! You might have had the same one as me and still not liked it. (I loved it though, made the whole film better in my mind)

Your criticism of it just being long though is totally valid though, and that's probably a taste thing. I liked the pace of this movie quite a bit, but I've felt like other good films could have been edited down, like how 45 Years felt like it lasted...well...

Depending on your interpretation of what's actually happening during the ending, I think you can take away very different things from the film. We talk about this quite a bit, unless Yoda axes it (I doubt that he would, it's pretty important, but who knows! He's a man unhinged!).

It's possible that you may change your opinion on the ending with the different interpretations in mind. But maybe not! You might have had the same one as me and still not liked it. (I loved it though, made the whole film better in my mind)

Your criticism of it just being long though is totally valid though, and that's probably a taste thing. I liked the pace of this movie quite a bit, but I've felt like other good films could have been edited down, like how 45 Years felt like it lasted...well...

I'll start by saying 1) As Yoda pointed out in the podcast, the actual "ending" is the family being prepared, and either interpretation ends with that resolve amongst the family; as such, the movie still "makes sense" with either interpretation. 2) I wouldn't say that the film itself guarantees one or the other so I wouldn't say anyone is "clearly" right or wrong. Even if Nichols came out and said that his intent was that it was obviously a dream (or obviously wasn't) it wouldn't change my view or bolster it (unless he provided textual evidence and an argument), but I also lean "death of the author" when it comes to interpretation.

As you might have guessed by that last sentence, my interpretation has more to do with what would make (IMO) a better/more cohesive film rather than only what the last scene looks like.

If the storm is real, the film is about a prophet (of sorts) who is driven into an anxious madness over his visions of the future. He initially mistakes these visions for signs of mental illness until he grows convinced that they are real. The people around him are made uncomfortable because of his certainty and their lack of faith in his conviction. The storms in his dreams are direct foresight rather than metaphor.

If the storm is a dream, the film is about a man with the approaching onset of mental illness. His anxiety about the looming problem turns his subconscious against him, giving him dreams of a supernatural storm beyond his understanding. He initially believes these dreams and hallucinations to be signs of his mental illness, but the more he comes to understand the scope of what that'd mean, he'd actually PREFER that it was a prophetic vision. He begins to take the visions literally, hoping that he's actually not going to have to go through that personal hell.

I think the dream interpretation sits better with the film as a whole. Additionally, some individual dreams don't really make sense to me if it's an actual storm; specifically the ones where people turn against him.

I'm gonna two birds one-stone this by including some of the stuff that got cut that Yoda mentioned earlier in the topic.

There's the dream where he's driving his truck in the heavy rain and crashes, and then is attacked by strangers while his daughter is taken. I interpreted this as his fear that the mental illness would mean being considered an unfit parent and him being separated from his daughter. Under the "real storm" scenario, I don't know why he'd have this dream? Unless the storm also drives people crazy? I suppose it was already set-up to be supernatural, but that doesn't exactly seem like a great fit.

The dream where his wife attacks him makes sense if the storm is a metaphor for mental illness. I interpret that as his subconscious telling him that at some point his wife will fear him to the point that even she'd turn against him. Again, I don't know why he'd have this dream if he was just a prophet with visions of a supernatural storm.

Before coming around to the idea that the storm was a metaphor for his mental illness, I didn't know what to make of the way that people turned against him. But after, I think of it as a pretty apt analogy. Especially how it seems odd that in these sort of super storms, he's being attacked rather than people focusing on the storm. It feels like he's being blamed for the storm, and I think in the context of those dreams he (rightly) feels like he's a victim too, and is confused and hurt that people are blaming him for the storm. This also doubles as an analogy for people with mental illness wanting to be separated from the illness and not having it replace their identity; it's not that people fear Curtis, who is still a kind and good man, it's that they fear the illness, they fear the storm. But he's concerned about the association between him and the illness/storm becoming so strong that other people can't distinguish between the two. And I think that's a really strong lesson.

I suppose that a hybrid interpretation could be introduced; that the storm is a manifestation of his fear come to life through some sort of latent psychic power of his (similar to Sphere) so the metaphorical meaning of the storm remains more or less intact while the ending is still a "real" storm. I don't think anyone would typically come away with that interpretation, but I could see an argument for it. Other than that I think that making the storm "real" takes away from the mental illness plot. Although, I suppose that even "real" prophetic visions could count to some as a mental illness if they cause this amount of distress, but at the very least it'd make the mental illness plot less relatable.

I think overall, it's very possible to get the intended sense of peace that the ending should give you (in the face of either an incredible storm or the onset of mental illness) and that's the important part. But I do think the movie as a whole really sits better with the more metaphorical ending. At least for me!

I'll start by saying 1) As Yoda pointed out in the podcast, the actual "ending" is the family being prepared, and either interpretation ends with that resolve amongst the family; as such, the movie still "makes sense" with either interpretation. 2) I wouldn't say that the film itself guarantees one or the other so I wouldn't say anyone is "clearly" right or wrong. Even if Nichols came out and said that his intent was that it was obviously a dream (or obviously wasn't) it wouldn't change my view or bolster it (unless he provided textual evidence and an argument), but I also lean "death of the author" when it comes to interpretation.

As you might have guessed by that last sentence, my interpretation has more to do with what would make (IMO) a better/more cohesive film rather than only what the last scene looks like.

If the storm is real, the film is about a prophet (of sorts) who is driven into an anxious madness over his visions of the future. He initially mistakes these visions for signs of mental illness until he grows convinced that they are real. The people around him are made uncomfortable because of his certainty and their lack of faith in his conviction. The storms in his dreams are direct foresight rather than metaphor.

If the storm is a dream, the film is about a man with the approaching onset of mental illness. His anxiety about the looming problem turns his subconscious against him, giving him dreams of a supernatural storm beyond his understanding. He initially believes these dreams and hallucinations to be signs of his mental illness, but the more he comes to understand the scope of what that'd mean, he'd actually PREFER that it was a prophetic vision. He begins to take the visions literally, hoping that he's actually not going to have to go through that personal hell.

I think the dream interpretation sits better with the film as a whole. Additionally, some individual dreams don't really make sense to me if it's an actual storm; specifically the ones where people turn against him.

I'm gonna two birds one-stone this by including some of the stuff that got cut that Yoda mentioned earlier in the topic.

There's the dream where he's driving his truck in the heavy rain and crashes, and then is attacked by strangers while his daughter is taken. I interpreted this as his fear that the mental illness would mean being considered an unfit parent and him being separated from his daughter. Under the "real storm" scenario, I don't know why he'd have this dream? Unless the storm also drives people crazy? I suppose it was already set-up to be supernatural, but that doesn't exactly seem like a great fit.

The dream where his wife attacks him makes sense if the storm is a metaphor for mental illness. I interpret that as his subconscious telling him that at some point his wife will fear him to the point that even she'd turn against him. Again, I don't know why he'd have this dream if he was just a prophet with visions of a supernatural storm.

Before coming around to the idea that the storm was a metaphor for his mental illness, I didn't know what to make of the way that people turned against him. But after, I think of it as a pretty apt analogy. Especially how it seems odd that in these sort of super storms, he's being attacked rather than people focusing on the storm. It feels like he's being blamed for the storm, and I think in the context of those dreams he (rightly) feels like he's a victim too, and is confused and hurt that people are blaming him for the storm. This also doubles as an analogy for people with mental illness wanting to be separated from the illness and not having it replace their identity; it's not that people fear Curtis, who is still a kind and good man, it's that they fear the illness, they fear the storm. But he's concerned about the association between him and the illness/storm becoming so strong that other people can't distinguish between the two. And I think that's a really strong lesson.

I suppose that a hybrid interpretation could be introduced; that the storm is a manifestation of his fear come to life through some sort of latent psychic power of his (similar to Sphere) so the metaphorical meaning of the storm remains more or less intact while the ending is still a "real" storm. I don't think anyone would typically come away with that interpretation, but I could see an argument for it. Other than that I think that making the storm "real" takes away from the mental illness plot. Although, I suppose that even "real" prophetic visions could count to some as a mental illness if they cause this amount of distress, but at the very least it'd make the mental illness plot less relatable.

I think overall, it's very possible to get the intended sense of peace that the ending should give you (in the face of either an incredible storm or the onset of mental illness) and that's the important part. But I do think the movie as a whole really sits better with the more metaphorical ending. At least for me!

The interpretation that the ending is a dream or merely a metaphor and not a real storm or actual event may be plausible, but there are more important questions than, “Does this make sense?” The questions you should be asking are, “How does the film interpret itself?” And, “What makes the most sense?” This is something I was taught in university. I studied theology, so I had to do a lot of word studies, language studies, ancient literature, philosophy, research, and logic. This is what they always tell us to do when we are looking for the interpretation of a work. For example, to interpret Biblical prophecy we look at instances in the Bible where it interprets itself. So in this case, does it make more sense if it’s a dream, if it’s real, if it’s a metaphor, or if it’s intentionally ambiguous? What I’ve noticed is that after a lot of movies like this, movies that are intelligent and make you think, people come up with theories about whether the character is crazy, dreaming, or whether it’s a metaphor and other such things. It was the same with The Last Wave. Yoda looks up the theories that people have and likes to talk about them, but personally I don’t like to give much weight to them. I look at how the movie interprets itself to find out how I should interpret it. So look at how it treats dreams and ask yourself if it’s treating the ending the same way. The other dreams use shadows, light, and shaky cameras to give the visual sense that it is a dream, and they also show people appearing out of seemingly nowhere the way they can in real dreams. They use loud noises coming from strange places and events that can't be physically possible. I don’t think it treats the ending in the way it treats the other dreams in the movie, so on that basis I rule out it being a dream. The problem with the metaphor theory is that at no other point in the movie does it do anything that is merely metaphorical and not an actual event. The dreams aside, the entire narrative is presented as actual events, so is there anything in the ending to indicate that it is different from the other actual events of the film? I can’t see any indicator that it’s a metaphor. To me it is pretty obvious that it’s an actual event, but I have been wrong before. The last thing I would do if I wanted more answers is turn to interviews. We can google interviews and reviews, and watch them and look for some points where they talk about the ending. I don’t really feel like doing that just for the sake of this discussion, but that could at least offer more insight.

What makes the most sense to me is that it’s an actual event, and it has metaphorical significance. That duality would technically qualify as ambiguity.

When you contrasted some scenarios from the perspectives of it being a real storm versus a dream at the end, and you didn’t mention some aspects of the dreams from the perspective of a real storm. If it’s a real storm that doesn’t mean that he isn’t mentally ill the whole time. So the fears about being separated from his family and everyone turning against him relate to his subconscious fears about how people don’t believe him and think that he’s mentally ill. It makes more sense that it’s a real storm because that duality is there throughout the entire movie. Your confusion seems to lie in your idea that if it's a real storm that implies he wasn't mentally ill the whole time.

Actually there was something I wanted to say about his mental illness. I really liked how a lot went on unspoken. He wasn't a talker and he struggled with expressing himself, and I really felt like the audience was put under the same kind of restraints as him. I detected fear of being labelled mentally ill, and uncertainty about mental illness. He knew what he was experiencing, and he knew his own mind, but what he didn’t know was what mental illness really was and how other people would treat him. At least early on there was a sense that he might not be mentally ill, but that people were making that assumption because his premonition and behavior seemed crazy to them. So he wasn't sure if he agreed with the people who were pushing him in the direction of accepting that he was mentally ill. Then as the problem grew he tried to hide from it, deny it, and resist its hold on his life through sheer force of willpower.

The interpretation that the ending is a dream or merely a metaphor and not a real storm or actual event may be plausible, but there are more important questions than, “Does this make sense?” The questions you should be asking are, “How does the film interpret itself?” And, “What makes the most sense?” This is something I was taught in university. I studied theology, so I had to do a lot of word studies, language studies, ancient literature, philosophy, research, and logic. This is what they always tell us to do when we are looking for the interpretation of a work. For example, to interpret Biblical prophecy we look at instances in the Bible where it interprets itself. So in this case, does it make more sense if it’s a dream, if it’s real, if it’s a metaphor, or if it’s intentionally ambiguous? What I’ve noticed is that after a lot of movies like this, movies that are intelligent and make you think, people come up with theories about whether the character is crazy, dreaming, or whether it’s a metaphor and other such things. It was the same with The Last Wave. Yoda looks up the theories that people have and likes to talk about them, but personally I don’t like to give much weight to them. I look at how the movie interprets itself to find out how I should interpret it. So look at how it treats dreams and ask yourself if it’s treating the ending the same way. The other dreams use shadows, light, and shaky cameras to give the visual sense that it is a dream, and they also show people appearing out of seemingly nowhere the way they can in real dreams. They use loud noises coming from strange places and events that can't be physically possible. I don’t think it treats the ending in the way it treats the other dreams in the movie, so on that basis I rule out it being a dream. The problem with the metaphor theory is that at no other point in the movie does it do anything that is merely metaphorical and not an actual event. The dreams aside, the entire narrative is presented as actual events, so is there anything in the ending to indicate that it is different from the other actual events of the film? I can’t see any indicator that it’s a metaphor. To me it is pretty obvious that it’s an actual event, but I have been wrong before. The last thing I would do if I wanted more answers is turn to interviews. We can google interviews and reviews, and watch them and look for some points where they talk about the ending. I don’t really feel like doing that just for the sake of this discussion, but that could at least offer more insight.

What makes the most sense to me is that it’s an actual event, and it has metaphorical significance. That duality would technically qualify as ambiguity.

When you contrasted some scenarios from the perspectives of it being a real storm versus a dream at the end, and you didn’t mention some aspects of the dreams from the perspective of a real storm. If it’s a real storm that doesn’t mean that he isn’t mentally ill the whole time. So the fears about being separated from his family and everyone turning against him relate to his subconscious fears about how people don’t believe him and think that he’s mentally ill. It makes more sense that it’s a real storm because that duality is there throughout the entire movie. Your confusion seems to lie in your idea that if it's a real storm that implies he wasn't mentally ill the whole time.

Actually there was something I wanted to say about his mental illness. I really liked how a lot went on unspoken. He wasn't a talker and he struggled with expressing himself, and I really felt like the audience was put under the same kind of restraints as him. I detected fear of being labelled mentally ill, and uncertainty about mental illness. He knew what he was experiencing, and he knew his own mind, but what he didn’t know was what mental illness really was and how other people would treat him. At least early on there was a sense that he might not be mentally ill, but that people were making that assumption because his premonition and behavior seemed crazy to them. So he wasn't sure if he agreed with the people who were pushing him in the direction of accepting that he was mentally ill. Then as the problem grew he tried to hide from it, deny it, and resist its hold on his life through sheer force of willpower.