The Personal Recommendation Hall of Fame IV [Archive] - Page 3

rauldc14

07-20-21, 09:11 AM

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City Lights (Charles Chaplin 1931)

Reaction: I so needed to see this!

I swear that every single time I looked at my MoFo movie list I'd see City Lights and think, 'damn this movie made every list.' OK, maybe it's not on every list, but it's on 10 MoFo list! I don't think any other movie appears on so many of our list.

I enjoy silent films and I've loved a number of Chaplin's greats: Modern Times, The Kid, The Gold Rush and others. I wish I could say I also loved City Lights, but I found it only OK. I wasn't really impressed with it and maybe that's because I was really, really tired that night. Or maybe because subconsciously I was comparing it to Buster Keaton's The General which I recently watched and was impressed with.

When the film started I noted that it was 1931, that's into the sound era. Odd that Chaplin decided to stay with a silent film when sound was the thing at that point.

Unlike The Kid and other of Chaplin's earlier films, I felt like the story here didn't earn it's pathos. It was like Chaplin was burnt out and just went to the same movie well one too many times. I mean you get the Tramp falling in love with the poor blind girl who's about to be evicted out of her home. The Tramp then helps her. That all seemed kind of hackneyed and pandering to the audiences emotions. Where as other of his films earned the audiences accolades.

I'd call City Lights middle of the road, BUT very glad to have watched it finally.

I felt the same. I don't love it after two watches. I like Chaplin overall though

cricket

07-20-21, 09:46 AM

I think I prefer Chaplin to Keaton but it's close. My favorite is Modern Times and City Lights is a good one to.

I was also surprised Sexy Beast was nominated for Raul but it is a favorite of mine. My wife still calls me a c**t even though it's been several years since she's seen it.

cricket

07-20-21, 09:51 AM

Field of Dreams

https://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/fieldofdreams-bleachers.jpg

I knew this was about baseball, starred Kevin Costner, and I knew the tag line, but I really knew nothing of the story. Sean thought I would hate this and I can understand why. It leans heavily on fantasy which isn't my thing, but it's at least fantasy in the real world rather than talking trees or something of that nature. As corny and sappy as this movie is, it's equally nostalgic and enchanting. It's an easy movie to like, made even more easy by the very likable cast. An extremely nice watch.

3.5+

Citizen Rules

07-20-21, 12:08 PM

Sexy Beast

Thematically both as a heist film and a black comedy this movie didn't really do a whole lot for me. I did have to have a chuckle at that beginning Boulder scene though, I thought that was pretty funny. Seems like Kingsley is pretty highly praised for this but I didn't really care for his character, who seemed more focused on dropping as many F bombs as humanly possible. I got nothing against it, I love Scorsese movies after all but it all just seemed a bit overboard and really ruined the dialogue and flow of the film for me. The underwater scene was pretty cool. Overall, just really not my kind of film, surprised it was nominated for me.
rating_2The overuse of potty mouth ruins a lot of movies for me. And yes I swear in real life occasionally but not like every F'ing five seconds:p

cricket

07-20-21, 12:21 PM

I forgot to mention to issues with Field of dreams. First of all, it doesn't matter how old you are, you have to show identification to get a beer at Fenway park. Second, Lansdowne Street is a one-way going the other way! Damn Iowa tourists.

Citizen Rules

07-20-21, 12:24 PM

I like to see Field of Dreams...I'd guess it would place in the middle of my PR list. So not a high point movie for whoever picked it for me, but not dead last either, so a safe bet for a personal recommendation choice.

seanc

07-21-21, 11:48 AM

seanc

07-21-21, 11:55 AM

Room At The Top: I liked what this movie was doing thematically with the class distinctions and the working class angst. I am going to use a critique I hate though, so get ready for some hard core hypocrisy. Joe sucks as a character and totally ruined any chance for me to enjoy the relationship aspects of the story. Who is falling for this guy? Simply led me to not have any empathy in moments I certainly should have. Either for him or the women who should have ran the other way from him. Also, made the pillow talk scenes, which there are probably less of than it felt like, insufferable for me.

I get why this was picked for me but it came up short for reasons I am annoyed with myself for.

Citizen Rules

07-21-21, 12:26 PM

cricket

07-21-21, 12:36 PM

Glad it worked for you, even if you did have to go all local on us. Damn Sox fans.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/12a2jqBUibjObS/200.gif

cricket

07-21-21, 12:38 PM

And yea, your critique of Room at the Top sucks!

seanc

07-21-21, 12:43 PM

And yea, your critique of Room at the Top sucks!

You’re just like Pedro. Picking on a helpless old fat man.

seanc

07-23-21, 09:24 AM

I Walked With A Zombie: Cool concept, a little mix of Noir and horror. I was excited to have a 70 minute movie among my picks but this felt severely under developed. The mystery of the island, what happened to the wife, the developing romance, the mother’s involvement with voo-doo. All these plot lines hooked me, but they all left me wanting more. Some cool visual stuff as well. Fine watch, but definitely lacking for me.

edarsenal

07-23-21, 02:59 PM

The overuse of potty mouth ruins a lot of movies for me. And yes I swear in real life occasionally but not like every F'ing five seconds:p
I never, EVER swear. EVER! I abhor such language. Because I am a f@ckin angel!
And Sexy Beast was my faux pas. For some reason or another, raul is a near impossibility for me to pick for. I am continually surprised by what he likes and doesn't. So I attempted to go with something that had a similar awkward, off-center pretense to a film he does love, After Hours, and sorta blew it. Mea culpa, bro.

With the whole Chaplin vs Keaton thing, I grew up with Chaplin shorts, and The Tramp is forever endeared to me. It isn't till very recently during the Pre-30's Countdown and the HoFs that occurred along with it did I truly get actual, complete viewings of Keaton films and appreciate the mastery of the man and the skills of his dangerous comedic stunts. So, it's hard to make a comparison between a lifelong love and a budding romance.

Haven't seen Field of Dreams since it came out back when I was a Blockbuster whore. Renting stacks of films every single week. When it comes to Costner's Sport flicks, I always go with Bull Durham (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094812/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0). Which I had intended to nominate for the Sports HoF that never occurred.

I remember watching In Cold Blood soon after Capote (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0379725/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0) that showed a lot of the subtext/backstory of his interviews and writing of the book. Good film. But not very memorable, unfortunately.

Never heard of Viridiana.

Citizen Rules

07-23-21, 04:22 PM

...I always go with Bull Durham (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094812/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0). Which I had intended to nominate for the Sports HoF that never occurred...Sports HoF, bring it on! I'd be in and I've not seen Bull Durham...I do like Kevin Costner's films.

cricket

07-23-21, 07:40 PM

I Walked with a Zombie is a pretty cool movie.

seanc

07-23-21, 08:45 PM

Sports HoF, bring it on! I'd be in and I've not seen Bull Durham...I do like Kevin Costner's films.

I would also be into this

rauldc14

07-23-21, 08:49 PM

Sports HOF would be cool sometime

Citizen Rules

07-23-21, 08:52 PM

I would also be into thisYou'd suggested a Sports HoF awhile back, it would be great if you could host. I don't want to host, but I'd sure join.

Citizen Rules

07-23-21, 08:55 PM

I'm way tired, but really need to do three more write-ups for the last three PR films I've seen...So here they come!

Citizen Rules

07-23-21, 09:20 PM

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Paris, Texas (Wim Wenders 1984)

Reaction: Impressed

They say if you can't remember a movie then it must not have been all that good. I don't buy that.

When I watched Paris,Texas a week ago I had zero idea of what it was about...It was a blind watch. I thought it was going to be so quirky, Lynchian-like 80s crime film. To my surprise, this was a prime example of 'slow-cinema', a film movement that I enjoy and I did enjoy Paris,Texas. Sure not much happens and the scenes go on for a long while, but like a slow cooked Texas barbecue the film was bursting with flavor.

A lot of that film-flavor is from Harry Dean Stanton who was born to make a movie like this. I read Paris,Texas was his favorite film that he worked on. I liked Dean Stockwell too. But what I really liked was the Jim Jarmusch like photography of small towns in Texas...I chose that photo, not because the kid actor or the scene were amazing, but because the composition is so amazing. It's so rich in background details that no real action is needed. The setting tells the story. The entire film was like that, those town-scapes told a tale that went beyond what was happening on the surface.
79626

As strange as it might seem I don't really remember the movie after a week but like Harry Dean Stanton's character I know something real important took place.

Thief

07-23-21, 09:22 PM

Currently watching Mustang (2015)

edarsenal

07-23-21, 09:26 PM

Sports HoF, bring it on! I'd be in and I've not seen Bull Durham...I do like Kevin Costner's films.

Sports HOF would be cool sometime

I would also be into this
You'd suggested a Sports HoF awhile back, it would be great if you could host. I don't want to host, but I'd sure join.

That would make a great Autumn HoF.

edarsenal

07-23-21, 09:30 PM

Paris, Texas has been on/off my watchlist and like you CR, it would be a complete blind watch which in itself has its appeal. I love your description "like a slow cooked Texas barbecue the film was bursting with flavor." Nicely put.

Citizen Rules

07-23-21, 09:50 PM

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Room at the Top (Jack Clayton 1959)

Reaction: Much to my liking

I was expecting this to place middle of my list, but I gotta say it's going right up towards the top. I liked it that much.

In the first scene when we meet Joe (Laurence Harvey) I thought I had him pegged as being the handsome cad...a guy who used women, chewed them up and spit them out onto the cold pavement, without a mere thought of remorse. In the first scene it did indeed look like he would be the guy you 'love to hate'. I mean he did seem predatory at first, with his stalking of the daughter of the richest man in town. He was kinda creepy with his hellbent plan to marry her for money and social status, two things he sorely lacked.

But it was Joe's meager beginnings in a dirty northern England work town that made him who he was, and as the film went along we could see that the war, the loss of his family and his early life had shaped him into the person he was.

Along the way he does begin to change and realize that love is more important than money. But what I really liked is that the film never made that change in Joe clear cut, he was still a cad but a cad that could be understood.

Simone Signoret as Alice the older, married French woman that he falls in love with, made for a very realistic (for film) love story. She's very personable in this and their relationship felt dynamic. I liked the time the film spent on it.

edarsenal

07-23-21, 10:05 PM

Have not heard of that one, but by your write up, I am rather curious and I do enjoy Simone Signoret when I saw her in Army of Shadows.

Citizen Rules

07-23-21, 10:27 PM

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The Conversation (Francis Ford Coppola 1974)

Reaction: see review

*Spoilers*

Wow! The first scene in the city square with the inter-cut scenes of the couple under surveillance and the rooftop teams with those powerful recording mics, and Gene Hackman and his crew coordinating in a undercover van...were very powerful. They were filmed and edited like nothing I've seen in a movie before...I knew I was in for a treat.

In the next short scene with Hackman being tight lipped with his girl-on-the-side Terri Garr...it tells us just what we need to know about this man who's gone 'down the rabbit hole' in his surveillance job. I knew at the start of the movie that the story idea must have been inspired in part by The Watergate incident a few years earlier...In it's day this film must have resonated with viewers.

Then there's a scene with Gene Hackman attending a surveillance equipment convention and that's when the film starts to go astray. This man who goes to great lengths to keep his own life private and hidden, is now like a celebrity among his fellow surveillance experiments, which undid what was built on in the first scenes.

Then the film goes off the rails, when Hackman invites his competition back to his secret spy shop and shows them some of his equipment!....Nope, I'm not buying that he would do that. Then he stupidly allows a woman that he just met to steal his secret & very dangerous tapes. But wait a minute he had a cage with a lock...I guess he forgot to lock it.

Anyway the film is not well written and if it wasn't for Coppola's and Hackman's success with other films, I don't think this film would be so highly rated.

With that said I'm very happy to have watched it! It's a film I had really wanted to watch.

Citizen Rules

07-23-21, 10:43 PM

Have not heard of that one, but by your write up, I am rather curious and I do enjoy Simone Signoret when I saw her in Army of Shadows.Simone has a good amount of scenes in Room at the Top and is 10 years younger to boot!

cricket

07-24-21, 06:49 AM

3 in a row from CR with my favorite being Room at the Top. Paris, Texas is also excellent. I need to see The Conversation again as I was disappointed the 1st time going back a few years.

Thief

07-24-21, 11:17 AM

MUSTANG
(2015, Ergüven)

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/11/20/arts/mustang-image/mustang-image-jumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp

"The house became a wife factory that we never came out of."

Mustang is a Turkish film that follows the lives of five orphaned sisters as they struggle with the conservative beliefs and upbringing of their grandmother and uncle who are raising them. The above exchange comes at a point when the grandmother has had enough of the girls behavior and decides to isolate them at their home as she marries them off.

The film is co-written and directed by Deniz Gamze Ergüven, and apparently the catalyst event is inspired in her own experience as a Turkish girl. The "catalyst event" is nothing but an innocent game of "chicken fight" with some male friends at the beach; something that their grandmother (Nihal Koldaş) classifies as her "granddaughters, pleasuring themselves on boys' necks". That gives you an idea of the kind of "conservative" mindset they're trapped in.

After this event, the girls are taken off school, and groomed to be "perfect wives"; cooking, sewing, cleaning. Their regular clothes are traded by shapeless garbs which they refer to as "sh-it-colored dresses", bars are set in their windows, locks on the doors... and for every window barred and key turned, the girls grow up more determined to run away any way they can.

The comparisons with Sofia Coppola's The Virgin Suicides are expected, but I'll just say that I appreciated more Ergüven's approach which, unlike the former, manages to flesh out each daughter well enough for the story to have an emotional baggage. The performances from the girls, most of which weren't professional actresses, are also pretty good and they each manage to convey both a sense of individuality to each of them, as well as the endearing yet tragic bond between them.

There are some brief tidbits of narration, provided by the youngest daughter, Lale (Güneş Şensoy), which are not entirely necessary, but the dramatic weight and tension of what is happening is enough to make of this a very surprising discovery.

Grade: 4

seanc

07-24-21, 12:35 PM

Can any of you link gods help me out with one for Scarlet Empress? I thought I was going to be able to watch it on YouTube, but the one on there is unwatchable. I think someone recorded it with their phone from the TV. Brutal

Allaby

07-24-21, 12:38 PM

edarsenal

07-24-21, 12:47 PM

I commented you one as well. Great flick, it won a 30s HoF which, if I remember it was cricket who nominated it

seanc

07-24-21, 12:59 PM

Thank you both. Mofo rocks

Siddon

07-24-21, 01:12 PM

In case anyone is wondering my DVR is at 3% now so it might be a little bit before I start to tackle this hall.

Thursday Next

07-24-21, 04:13 PM

I was expecting this to place middle of my list, but I gotta say it's going right up towards the top. I liked it that much.

I hope there's room at the top of your list for it ;)

I think Paris, Texas, Room at the Top and The Conversation are all really good films, so good luck ordering those.

Mustang is pretty good too, I can't remember if that was on my ballot for the directed by women countdown, but it probably was.

cricket

07-24-21, 10:25 PM

I wasn't familiar with Mustang at all but it sounds good.

Takoma11

07-24-21, 10:53 PM

Loving all the reviews. I've been watching a few that you guys have liked, so this is like bonus HoF content.

Thief

07-24-21, 11:11 PM

Just finished The Innocents.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/2c65496f1d8f145cf80ce4f93cac4d6e/tenor.gif

Takoma11

07-25-21, 12:33 AM

Just rewatched The Innocents a few weeks ago as part of Sunday Afternoon Horror Club.

Allaby

07-25-21, 02:50 PM

I watched Missing (1982) today. Directed by Costa-Gavras, this drama stars
Jack Lemmon, Sissy Spacek, and John Shea. It's based on the true story of an American who goes missing during the Chilean coup d'état in September 1973 and his father and wife's search for him. The film won the Palme d'Or,as well as winning an Oscar, two Bafta awards and being nominated for 5 Golden Globes. I bought the dvd years ago because I had never watched it. The screenplay is well written and tells the story in an effective way. Performances are good, especially by Lemmon. The film is fairly interesting and doesn't drag. That being said, it isn't the type of film I think I would rewatch, but I'm glad I finally saw it. My rating is a 4.

cricket

07-25-21, 03:02 PM

I haven't seen Missing since I was a kid so I don't even know if I like it. I would imagine I do.

Takoma11

07-25-21, 03:12 PM

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[B]The Conversation (Francis Ford Coppola 1974)

Trivia!

A friend of my parents worked on this film (sound design or editing, I think?) and so this was the first DVD my family ever owned. We actually got this DVD as a gift from him before we owned a DVD player.

cricket

07-25-21, 05:03 PM

Caravaggio

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MV7D2SXRVCI/WNfwhvRjarI/AAAAAAAAAoE/Oq1CNnNsGPYutqWM0efi0I8lVK9oS8mLgCLcB/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/caravaggio-1986.jpg

This is on the British films list, which certainly wouldn't have been my first guess based on the title. I guess you could call it a biopic on the famous Italian painter Michaelangelo Caravaggio, no not that Michaelangelo, a different one. Well I had no idea because I know nothing about the history of art. My ignorance may have prevented more confusion than I already had. So historical movies are up against it with me anyway, but the kiss of death was that this movie is filmed like a play and is set entirely indoors. I thought it was mostly unappealing visually. I feel like I learned more about the guy's sexual tendencies than his artistry. That would normally be fine but it didn't quite work. It was cool seeing very early performances from Dexter Fletcher, Tilda Swinton, and Sean Bean, and the acting is generally strong. It's not a bad film and it's different, but it's not for me. The 90 minute runtime was a blessing.

2.5

Hey Fredrick

07-26-21, 11:26 AM

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dvdfr.com%2Fimages%2Fanecdotic%2F_news%2F2018%2F07%2Fmemories_of_murder_1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Memories of Murder (2003)

Detective Park Doo-Man: Chief, I may know nothing else, but my eyes can read people. That's how I survive as a detective, and why people say I have shaman's eyes.

And if you can't read em, beat em. Memories takes place in the 80's. It's about a serial rapist/murderer on the loose in a small Korean village and the police who are investigating it. A couple of the local detectives on the case have a way of solving crimes that are less than...they get confessions. Bad cop, worse cop thing. Did they get the right guy? Well, they got a confession. For this case, however, they are accompanied by a detective from Seoul who is much more interested in getting the right guy than simply closing the case. Whereas the local detectives are prone to emotional outbursts and acting on impulse the Seoul detective takes everything in and is more patient and thoughtful. Kind of similar to how Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt were in Se7en. It's not as amped up in Memories as it is in Se7en but it's similar.

This is my fourth Bong Joon Ho film and I have to say it's my favorite so far. The story is just a little more up my alley than some of his other films. Sure it's about a serial rapist/murderer but it's really about the detectives and how this case changes them. There's a fair amount of very interesting detective work done and it also has a bit of that gallows humor, which I can appreciate. One interrogation in particular had me chuckling pretty good even though it's not a funny situation at all. Ho's films, even when I'm not a fan, always look great and this is no different. He has an eye for making the most mundane things looks good.

The ending is fantastic and once I found out it was based on a true story it made it even better. The scene at the train tracks was executed to perfection. Solid movie.

Thief

07-26-21, 12:19 PM

Memories of Murder is a great film, but even then, it's probably my #3 Bong film. The man hasn't missed as far as I'm concerned.

Citizen Rules

07-26-21, 12:46 PM

Memories of Murder,does not sound like my type of movie.

Citizen Rules

07-26-21, 12:47 PM

Trivia!

A friend of my parents worked on this film [The Conversation] (sound design or editing, I think?) and so this was the first DVD my family ever owned. We actually got this DVD as a gift from him before we owned a DVD player. That's cool, did he work on a lot of other films too or just this one?

Thursday Next

07-26-21, 02:48 PM

I liked Caravaggio and I think it's the most accessible Jarman film I've seen, but it is definitely a bit of an acquired taste.

edarsenal

07-26-21, 02:52 PM

Have not seen Missing or even heard of Mustang. I'd be curious to see Caravaggio, especially for Swinton. And I have Memories of Murder on my watchlist. LOVE Bong Joon Ho so really looking forward to seeing it.

Watched The Searchers yesterday. Directed by #1 number of films on my Western Countdown List (John Ford) and starring my #1 Actor for films on my voting list (John Wayne) this was pretty much guaranteed an instant favorite and it is.
I am curious, did whoever nominated this for me knew it was a shoo-in or was it a happy accident when they chose it?

cricket

07-26-21, 03:22 PM

Memories of Murder,does not sound like my type of movie.

I actually think you'd like it.

I am curious, did whoever nominated this for me knew it was a shoo-in or was it a happy accident when they chose it?

I was thinking about picking it for you until it got taken. I wasn't sure how much you'd like it. As popular as it seems to be, it also seems to be somewhat divisive.

Thief

07-26-21, 03:27 PM

I have not seen The Searchers, but everything I've read/heard is great. I have it on my short list.

Thief

07-26-21, 03:44 PM

Memories of Murder,does not sound like my type of movie.

Have you seen any other Bong film?

Okay

07-26-21, 03:51 PM

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FFilm%2FPix%2Fpictures%2F2008%2F06%2F06%2Flivesofothers460.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

The Lives of Others, 2006

I watched The Lives of Others a little while ago and enjoyed it quite a bit too. What a great screenplay it had and very meticulous as well. I really dug how realistic it was, especially on the technical levels. The color palette of the film also aided at that. Loved the characters and their struggles, Christa in particular who's a very flawed person whose inner turmoil came with a lot of interesting themes that I rarely see put on screen. To me, the more flawed a character is, the more realistic and interesting they become, which is why she was my absolute favorite in the movie.

I didn't really have any specific complaints about this one. Initially I had a mixed response to the final 10 or so minutes, which serve as an epilogue to the rest of the film and involve some jumps in time. At first I found myself grumbling that I wished they ended the film in the "present" of the film. But as I've thought about it, I do think that the last 10 minutes provide closure and completeness to some of the major themes of the film and the character arcs.

I think that there was a very predictable way that this film could have gone, which would be the spy falling in love with the person they were watching. I do think that Wiesler develops a platonic love or affection for Dreyman, and by removing any overt notions of romance or lust, it becomes clear that what Wiesler is responding to in Dreyman is his ideals and his bravery.

I personally didn't enjoy the epilogues and still don't. They're probably my biggest gripe with the film. I found them to be too explanatory, and they also were kind of ruining some aspects that I would've loved had they've been kept untouched. Even though there are some great scenes that we got out of Dreyman figuring it all out, such as the part where he finds Wiesler but chooses to keep his distance and watch him from afar which was definitely a nice role reversal, there's also the last scene of the film. But, I still don't think that nearly justifies such a development.

First of all, I need to explain the way I interpreted Wiesler's character and his actions. I personally don't necessarily buy into him becoming infatuated with Dreyman as much as I think he's fallen in love with the love between Drey and Christa. He has never seen a love with such force, purity, and intensity before. It's something he's never had, and probably never will. He's jealous of it of course, but at the same time he wants to preserve and protect it by all means necessary. I find that way more compelling than just him becoming in love with the writer because of his ideals, personality, and art. I still find the latter to be very true, but there's also his love for Christa and her nature, as well as a love for their relationship, and we see that on numerous occasions like in his conversation with Christa in the café, or even his last words to her before her death assuring her that Drey doesn't know about the truth, protecting her, protecting him, and more importantly protecting their magical sacred love. And that is why I don't like where the story headed in those last 15 minutes. I would've much rathered Wiesler's efforts not be in vain, and have the irony of it all only be known to the audience.

Okay

07-26-21, 04:11 PM

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It's Such a Beautiful Day (2012)

Narrator: And as the Sun continues to set, he finally comes to realize the dumb irony in how he had been waiting for this moment his entire life.

neiba: You are forbidden to dislike It's Such a Beautiful Day!

This is the story of Bill. A guy with some undiagnosed mental issues just trying to navigate life. I don't know what to say about this one. The animation isn't exactly mind blowing unless stick figures and still pictures are mind blowing and there really isn't any acting to speak of. The entire story is narrated except for a few lines from some nurses, Dr.'s and Bill's roomate in the hospital. And yet...

There is so much I loved about this that I don't even know where to start. The animation is perfect for the story. The narrator, something about his voice and delivery is perfect for the story. The story itself is great. Everythings about this movie is simple to the max except for Bill. I feel like I know him after hanging around with him for a very fast hour (it's a short movie). There is so much emotion packed into this hour of stick figures it really is remarkable. You feel kind of sorry for Bill but you never get the impression that he wants you to. Everything is told very matter of fact. This is just how life is. There's a lot of very serious stuff going on here but it uses humor very effectively to balance it out. I don't know. This is so unique. The only thing I can think of comparing it to would be a combo of Mary and Max (tone) and La Jetee (style). I've seen a lot of really good movies on all your recommendations and this is one of the best. Already watched it twice. Highly recommend!

I would love to re-watch this at some point because even though I liked it a lot upon first viewing, it managed to continuously grow on me in memory. I think I wrote something about it here somewhere back when I first watched it. Here it is:

It's Such a Beautiful Day (2012) by Don Hertzfeldt
42917

Fear of death, and the harsh reality that time is slipping through our fingers, are a few subjects that "It's Such a Beautiful Day" seems to tackle, and are the main ones that resonated with me personally. Every time our main character Bill, sees something that indicates the passage of time (such as him continuously seeing a shoe filled with leaves), he grows sadder and sadder. His "condition" is unexplainable says the doctor, and that's because as long as he lives, his fright of his end remains alive.

The film isn't all distressing, there are hilarious moments scattered around as well, such as the flashbacks to the life of Bill's grandma. The simplistic animation aided the comedy and the drama pretty neutrally. This refreshing style can also become just as detailed as the narration. Furthermore, I interpret the ending as a showcase of death's positive qualities, and how a continuous life is what's ultimately depressing.

I don't have anything bad to say about the movie, other than the fact that I didn't like it as much as everybody else did. I became disinterested a few times, and I guess I didn't feel everything the film tried to provoke out of me. Honestly, I don't know what the film could've done to get a better reaction out of me.

⭐⭐⭐1/2

I became a huge fan of Don Hertzfeldt since then. A lot of his shorts are some of my favorites ever, such as Billy's Balloon and Lily and Jim. Since you've liked this of his, I would absolutely recommend you check out anything he's ever done, the man's a genius.

Okay

07-26-21, 04:19 PM

You have a hell of a memory. The longer I wait to write even a minor review, the worse it is and less I have to say about it. Like for example I haven't written up Long Goodbye but watched it and probably now won't have much to say

What I do is record all my thoughts and feelings in an audio on my phone after watching a film, and I've been doing this for over a year now. It comes in handy whenever I want to defend, praise, or criticize a film in a conversation later on, when normally I couldn't have because I more often than not wouldn't have remembered the specific details that I liked or disliked.

I've seen Psycho and Apocalypse Now for a while now, but I'm waiting to re-watch Psycho before doing my write-up, and I'm probably gonna write something for Apocalypse tonight, hence my sudden activity haha.

Okay

07-26-21, 04:25 PM

I just finished watching I Daniel Blake (2016). Directed by Ken Loach, the film stars Dave Johns as a carpenter who after a heart attack has to fight to try and get employment and support allowance. Going in to the film, I wasn't sure if I would like it. I had only seen one film from the director before (Kes) and hated it. I was concerned the film sounded like it would be too much of a downer and would be hard to enjoy. I am very pleased to report that I loved this film! Dave Johns is fantastic and brings a lot of depth and humanity to the role. I think he should have been nominated for an Oscar for his performance. Hayley Squires is also very good as a single mom that Blake befriends. I also really liked young Briana Shann's performance as one of her kids. I thought the screenplay was very well written and done in an honest, believable way that avoided clichés. I Daniel Blake is a compelling and interesting film that tackles an important subject matter in a way that is heartfelt, compassionate and still manages to be an entertaining film. Good call whoever nominated this for me. I am glad I saw it. This one rates a high 4.5.
The ending was so good too :bawling:

rauldc14

07-26-21, 04:37 PM

When Harry Met Sally

https://s.abcnews.com/images/Entertainment/ht_meg_ryan_billy_crystal_when_harry_met_sally_jc_140711_16x9_992.jpg

Here's a movie that kills 2 AFI lists with one stone. It's a pretty good romantic comedy, but I don't think it necessarily elevates itself above the other highly thought after classics. Pretty nice chemistry between Ryan and Billy Crystal. The story itself just feels ok to me, not a whole lot of strong substance to it though. There were a few laughs here and there but I suppose I had hoped that it would be funnier. The restaurant scene was pretty funny though especially when the old lady said I'll have what she's having. The cutscenes with couples talking was a bit of a nuisance and took away from the focus of the overall film for me, even when we saw the pair have their own cutscene at the end I really didn't care for it. Overall though a decent watch.

3.5-

Okay

07-26-21, 04:42 PM

Sexy Beast

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wYtSet1pUio/XSC9k-iWr5I/AAAAAAAAb8E/uBmCGu_ncPYGnL_c7WbjH0HgLHbanN5MwCLcBGAs/s1600/Sexy%2BBeast%2B1.jpg

Thematically both as a heist film and a black comedy this movie didn't really do a whole lot for me. I did have to have a chuckle at that beginning Boulder scene though, I thought that was pretty funny. Seems like Kingsley is pretty highly praised for this but I didn't really care for his character, who seemed more focused on dropping as many F bombs as humanly possible. I got nothing against it, I love Scorsese movies after all but it all just seemed a bit overboard and really ruined the dialogue and flow of the film for me. The underwater scene was pretty cool. Overall, just really not my kind of film, surprised it was nominated for me.

2

Another one I would love to re-watch. Enjoyed this a lot back when I first watched it, and I still re-watch clips of it here and there on Youtube. It's insanely funny, very well written and performed. Great editing and overall style. It reminded me of In Bruges actually, especially with the contrast between Ben Kingsley's character and Ralph Fiennes' in that movie. This is also a fantastic directorial debut, so one can also add this to that list. Just from the little he's done, and the little I've seen from him, I love Glazer and the unconventional material he goes after. Hope he continues making features.

rauldc14

07-26-21, 04:43 PM

Probably why I hated it, because I hate In Bruges too.

Takoma11

07-26-21, 04:48 PM

Memories of Murder,does not sound like my type of movie.

It is a complex and thoughtful portrayal of a real-life series of murders taking place during a cultural overhaul.

I think it's a very, very high-quality film. I have a hard time imagining anyone disliking it. It is true that there is violence, but it is not exploitative or excessive.

First of all, I need to explain the way I interpreted Wiesler's character and his actions. I personally don't necessarily buy into him becoming infatuated with Dreyman as much as I think he's fallen in love with the love between Drey and Christa. He has never seen a love with such force, purity, and intensity before. It's something he's never had, and probably never will. He's jealous of it of course, but at the same time he wants to preserve and protect it by all means necessary. I find that way more compelling than just him becoming in love with the writer because of his ideals, personality, and art.

To be clear, my use of the word "love" was meant more in the sense of him being in love with the idea of Dreyman. So many films that involve an element of voyeurism tend to bring in the idea of erotic obsession or attachment. I liked that in this film, the voyeur has actually discovered a person who is like a rare butterfly or something. In a government that is policing expression and ideas, this spy has discovered ideas and expression that ignite his imagination. I agree with you that a big part of it is the dynamic between Dreyman and Christa, but I saw it as more about Dreyman's overall passion and not just his romantic passion.

seanc

07-26-21, 04:58 PM

I think Memories Of A Murder might be too stylized for CR’s taste. Edited a little off kilter as well.

Watch it and report back Citizen

Citizen Rules

07-26-21, 05:05 PM

I think Memories Of A Murder might be too stylized for CR’s taste. Edited a little off kilter as well.

Watch it and report back CitizenStylized is OK, see my write up for Paris, Texas. But I have to watch these with my wife and serial rape & murder is not a popular theme in our house:p

Takoma11

07-26-21, 05:16 PM

Stylized is OK, see my write up for Paris, Texas. But I have to watch these with my wife and serial rape & murder is not a popular theme in our house:p

The content is handled with compassion and empathy. None of the assaults or murders are shown.

It has some really memorable sequences, and there is one visual part in particular that I find really beautiful and powerful.

seanc

07-26-21, 05:17 PM

Stylized is OK, see my write up for Paris, Texas. But I have to watch these with my wife and serial rape & murder is not a popular theme in our house:p

Hmm, trying the think if I consider Paris, Texas stylized. Definitely not in the same way.

I hear you on the violence but I can promise you we have more graphic movies than this in almost every HOF.

seanc

07-26-21, 05:20 PM

I’m thinking stylized more in the sense that it’s trying to set a tone of modern genre. More like a Tarantino, or something like that.

Thief

07-26-21, 05:50 PM

Citizen Rules

07-26-21, 05:51 PM

The content is handled with compassion and empathy. None of the assaults or murders are shown.

It has some really memorable sequences, and there is one visual part in particular that I find really beautiful and powerful.Thanks:) and that helps...

The part in blue is important to how I relate to films (that's why I like 1950s movies!). However the first part in green doesn't really effect me much. I think you said the same to me about the killings/violence in In a Glass Cage, and for me a moral motive doesn't matter, it's the extreme acts of violence I don't like...even if that violence has a moral compass.

Citizen Rules

07-26-21, 05:53 PM

I’m thinking stylized more in the sense that it’s trying to set a tone of modern genre. More like a Tarantino, or something like that.Um, well...we all know how I feel about Tarantino:shifty:

Citizen Rules

07-26-21, 06:01 PM

Have you seen any other Bong film?2 of them, I'd also like to see Parasite.

My old reviews:

The Host (2006)
I liked this one. It wasn't what I expected...I expected a 2 hour long movie with people being bit in half by a giant creature. Instead it had a lighter touch and focused more on a slightly dysfunctional but very likable Korean family. The film makers could have left the creature out of the film and I would have still liked the characters and the way the family interacted, the were interesting! It was nice seeing scenes inside Korea too.

The creature itself was pretty cool looking...I liked the way it moved on land, it couldn't walk well and would occasionally fall on it's belly. Nicely done CG.
rating_3_5

Snowpiercer (2013)
This film was not my cup of tea. It varies from a deadpan gloomy Walking Dead wanna be film to a zany, colorful film with ecliptic charters reminiscent of Brazil (1985) and A Boy and His Dog (1975). With this hodge-podge style of film making, it failed to be believable. Once I fell out of the story line I became bored. There's not much in the way of inspired acting as it's a story based film and the story wasn't focused.
rating_2_5

SpelingError

07-26-21, 06:50 PM

Regarding Bong, I've only seen three of his films (The Host, Snowpiercer, Parasite), but I love all of those films a great deal. I should watch Memories of Murder someday.

rauldc14

07-26-21, 07:33 PM

I guess I've only seen Parasite from Bong. Thought I had seen one more but nope.

Takoma11

07-26-21, 07:35 PM

Thanks:) and that helps...

The part in blue is important to how I relate to films (that's why I like 1950s movies!). However the first part in green doesn't really effect me much. I think you said the same to me about the killings/violence in In a Glass Cage, and for me a moral motive doesn't matter, it's the extreme acts of violence I don't like...even if that violence has a moral compass.

I find that my tolerance for violence is greater when there is empathy in its portrayal. There is some violence in the film: between the police officers and also between the police officers and some suspects that they are torturing to get a confession.

I still think that it is a masterful film with, as Thief says, a powerful blend of thriller, drama, and comedy elements. Tarantino isn't really someone I think of when I think of it, but I think I get what Sean means when he talks about the film bringing a modern aesthetic.

Hey Fredrick

07-26-21, 08:04 PM

Stylized is OK, see my write up for Paris, Texas. But I have to watch these with my wife and serial rape & murder is not a popular theme in our house:p

Nothing is ever shown in Memories of Murder. I'm very careful about what I nominate for you (I pulled my first nom for you this time around because there were two scenes, not terribly graphic, but close enough) and there isn't anything here that would throw up a red flag. You may not like the movie but it wouldn't be because of violence or anything like that. There's nothing here that is in the same world/universe as In a Glass Cage (I'm still in disbelief over that nomination) and I didn't get a Tarantino flavor from Memories at all. It's very good.

Citizen Rules

07-26-21, 08:25 PM

I find that my tolerance for violence is greater when there is empathy in its portrayal. There is some violence in the film: between the police officers and also between the police officers and some suspects that they are torturing to get a confession.

I still think that it is a masterful film with, as Thief says, a powerful blend of thriller, drama, and comedy elements. Tarantino isn't really someone I think of when I think of it, but I think I get what Sean means when he talks about the film bringing a modern aesthetic.I do appreciate your insight into Memories of Murder, thanks:) I probably won't watch it unless someone chooses it for me, or it gets nominated in an HoF...then we'll see what I think:cool::)

Nothing is ever shown in Memories of Murder. I'm very careful about what I nominate for you (I pulled my first nom for you this time around because there were two scenes, not terribly graphic, but close enough) and there isn't anything here that would throw up a red flag. You may not like the movie but it wouldn't be because of violence or anything like that. There's nothing here that is in the same world/universe as In a Glass Cage (I'm still in disbelief over that nomination) and I didn't get a Tarantino flavor from Memories at all. It's very good. I appreciate that. Can you say what that nom was?

Hey Fredrick

07-26-21, 09:36 PM

https://i.imgur.com/Td4PBIS.jpg?1

Persona (1966)

Sister Alma: No! I'm not like you. I don't feel like you. I'm Sister Alma, I'm just here to help you. I'm not Elisabet Vogler. You are Elisabet Vogler.

Persona. Hmmm. It starts off with a montage of a movie projector firing up, a few quick cuts of stuff, a bon... Ah, nevermind, Anyway, what you are about to see is a FILM.

Alma is a nurse. She is tasked with watching over Elisabet at the summer home of Elizabets' Dr.. Elisabet was an actress but had some kind of breakdown on stage and is now mute. So the entire movie is Alma talking to Elisabet. Telling her all her secrets, rummaging around in her past until Elizabet does something that sets Alma off. So that's the plot.

I mean, really, how does someone filter through everything Bergman throws at you in one viewing and come away with anything more than a surface level understanding. I have my thoughts but they could change the next time I watch it or they could be reinforced. I rarely do this before writing up a little something about a movie but I looked up some WTF is Persona about articles. Every one of them had a different take and almost every one I was kind of like, yep, I can see that. So if all these scholars, people who study film for a living, can't figure it out wtf am I going to do with it?

This is only the third film from Bergman that I've seen. It's not my fav (The Virgin Spring) but it's not my least fav. One thing I'm getting used to with Bergman films is that his films are going to look spectacular. Framing a shot, what to put in the shot it's all perfect. I liked that he used a lot of close ups. And not just close ups, this isn't just a big face on the screen but SHOTS. And lots of them. Few movies utilize close ups this well. Right now the only ones coming to mind are Repulsion and The Passion of Joan of Ark and Bergmans are better. You have a character that doesn't say anything so how do you convey anything? Expressions. Both actresses were very good. I think Alma does more of the heavy lifting, obviously - she talks, but if it was all bouncing off a mannequin it wouldn't work. If you want to say it's the other way around I wouldn't argue, much. Bergman also throws a bunch of what I guess would be pretty experimental ideas for the time on screen and they all work. You can see the influence this film has had on a lot of directors.

I don't know what else to say. I really enjoyed it. Maybe not the right word but it was very good. Paused it for a break (those damn enchiladas!... (just kidding)) and was like, holy sheet, there's only 15 minutes left? It flew by. The first Bergman I ever watched was The Seventh Seal. Probably not the best one to start with so maybe it's time to revisit that one after getting a couple more under my belt. Gonna be a logjam at the top of my ballot.

Hey Fredrick

07-26-21, 09:38 PM

I appreciate that. Can you say what that nom was?

Yeah. The Untouchables.

Thief

07-26-21, 10:04 PM

2 of them, I'd also like to see Parasite.

My old reviews:

The Host (2006)
I liked this one. It wasn't what I expected...I expected a 2 hour long movie with people being bit in half by a giant creature. Instead it had a lighter touch and focused more on a slightly dysfunctional but very likable Korean family. The film makers could have left the creature out of the film and I would have still liked the characters and the way the family interacted, the were interesting! It was nice seeing scenes inside Korea too.

The creature itself was pretty cool looking...I liked the way it moved on land, it couldn't walk well and would occasionally fall on it's belly. Nicely done CG.
rating_3_5

Snowpiercer (2013)
This film was not my cup of tea. It varies from a deadpan gloomy Walking Dead wanna be film to a zany, colorful film with ecliptic charters reminiscent of Brazil (1985) and A Boy and His Dog (1975). With this hodge-podge style of film making, it failed to be believable. Once I fell out of the story line I became bored. There's not much in the way of inspired acting as it's a story based film and the story wasn't focused.
rating_2_5

Okja is the only film of his I haven't seen, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend any of the others. I haven't seen Snowpiercer in a while (it was my first of his films), but I think that one's actually the "outlier" among his filmography.

Thief

07-26-21, 10:10 PM

I mean, really, how does someone filter through everything Bergman throws at you in one viewing and come away with anything more than a surface level understanding.

I love Persona, but it took a second viewing for it to sink in. One of those films that I felt the urge to rewatch almost immediately. Went back at it about a week or two after my first viewing and this was my take.

Persona (https://letterboxd.com/thief12/film/persona/1/)

Citizen Rules

07-26-21, 10:24 PM

Yeah. The Untouchables.I suspect I'd love that, I've wanted to see it for years. I'd be fine with that.

It's hard to describe just what one doesn't like in a movie. I can say that I don't like 'excessive violence', but what is 'excessive violence' to me?
Mostly I'd say it's movies made in the last 10 years where the violence is palatable and much of the movie is about watching helpless victims suffer. That's why I don't do slasher horror films.

Citizen Rules

07-26-21, 10:38 PM

This will help you guys with the whole Citizen doesn't like violence thing:p for the next PR...

I loved these semi 'violent' movies and rated them all rating_4 or higher. Linked to my reviews.

Starship Troopers (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1197675-starship-troopers.html)
V for Vendetta (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1212160-v-for-vendetta.html)
Death Race 2000 (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1276042-death-race-2000.html)
Downfall (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1258211-downfall.html)
The Hurt Locker (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1279729-the-hurt-locker.html)
12 Years a Slave (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1276471-12-years-a-slave.html)
American Sniper (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1361327-american-sniper.html)
Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1550012-mad-max-2-the-road-warrior.html)
Tombstone (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2039635-tombstone.html)
Blood Simple (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2059129-blood-simple.html)
Unforgiven (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2111787-unforgiven.html)
Schindler's List (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2167003-schindlers-list.html)

OK not a lot of violent movies there that I love, and most of these aren't really violent. But that gives you all an idea of what I mean.

Siddon

07-27-21, 06:51 AM

https://64.media.tumblr.com/c4110b1b777ca366be0aacc913936b1b/tumblr_moknrdOgTp1re1poeo1_1280.jpg

The Court Jester (1955)

Well this was something different, The Court Jester is I suppose a satire of the old Errol Flynn films based upon its time period. The advantage here is that the comedy is pretty good the disadvantage is that 50's humor like this is a bit to goofy for my pallet. My issue here is I'm not really sure if I liked it or if I loved it. You have to kind of think about it...in a lot of ways it feels like a Disney Cartoon come to life. The difficulty is well the film centers around an army of little people who do choreographed attacks and dances....it's just bizarre to me.

The movie does have a number of strong points, the lead clearly came up from vaudeville and thus we get exceptional word play scenes. The actual tongue twisters are so good and the film really soars when you are just dealing with the main characters. And this is where the film really excels, Angela Lansbery plays a horned up princess who's ready to kill her pet witch...yes this movie is weird. She's very good in this. Basil Rathbone is the devious villain of the story but like most villains who love their work you kinda root for him.

The films other star is it's massive set pieces. This feels and looks like an epic..now it does have it's faults. The swords move like they are made of cardboard and the castle feels like a set...but when the film expands with matte paintings and a massive cast it just looks good....except when it doesn't. Still I enjoyed this one quite a bit. good nom,

cricket

07-27-21, 08:06 AM

And Siddon gets on the board for the 1st time, but that's ok we don't worry about Siddon. I watched The Court Jester for the 50's countdown and it was more enjoyable than I expected.

Thief

07-27-21, 11:02 AM

I heard someone on a podcast describe The Court Jester as the kind of film that everybody would/should enjoy regardless of age.

Takoma11

07-27-21, 11:57 AM

I heard someone on a podcast describe The Court Jester as the kind of film that everybody would/should enjoy regardless of age.

While I didn't love it when I watched it, I did find it overall pleasant.

Citizen Rules

07-27-21, 01:13 PM

I didn't like The Court Jester when I seen it long ago, but after reading Sidney's review I feel like watching it again as the film sounds like it has enough strange stuff to at least hold my interest.

Maybe I should go and cross it off my MoFo list if I can't remember it?

Thursday Next

07-27-21, 01:29 PM

I've genuinely never heard of The Court Jester, although I must have scrolled past the name on the lists a few times.

Allaby

07-27-21, 02:01 PM

I loved The Court Jester. It’s such a charming, enjoyable film. Lots of fun to be had. 🥳

Siddon

07-27-21, 03:17 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SNcyADMY8k

Kaye is definitely at the height of his powers when he is doing vaudevillian bits like this. The punchline actually made me snort.

Thursday Next

07-27-21, 04:28 PM

Thief

07-27-21, 05:13 PM

Gentleman’s Agreement

1947 Oscar winner about a journalist who pretends to be Jewish to investigate anti-Semitism. This is the sort of film that still wins Oscars these days – a solid, talky issue film.

It’s a little ponderous and takes a long time to get going – in the time it takes him to think of an angle for a story he is writing (at least 30 minutes, and we all know from the summary of the film what that angle will be), our leading man has managed to get engaged to his new editor’s niece. Either he’s very slow at thinking of angles for stories, or very quick at proposing. Probably both.

It’s all very well meaning and does have some serious and astute points to make about anti-Semitism and about how inaction from those who purport to be against it help it to flourish, in the character of Kathy. Interesting to see that anti-Semitism was such a huge thing in America in the 40s - I'd never heard of 'restricted' hotels before. I still think there’s something a bit off about the premise of this man pretending to be Jewish, although he obviously has good intentions. More uncomfortable still was when he harangues the actually Jewish secretary about anti-Semitism after his 8 weeks of experience.

Although it’s not the main point of the film, I liked the presentation of the domestic side of things, and the relationships between Phil and his ill mother, his young son (played by Dean Stockwell) and his old friend. I liked the character of Anne. I felt that the romance was too shoe-horned in and I didn’t like the ending. It doesn’t have much visual flair.

I’m glad I watched this, because I want to watch all the Best Picture winners, but I doubt it would place high on my ranking of best picture winners. All in all it was fine but not great.

I saw that one a couple of years ago and like it a lot. Here's my review on Letterboxd (https://letterboxd.com/thief12/film/gentlemans-agreement/), but here's a bit of it...

But anyway, the film is very well done, presenting the issue from a variety of perspectives and not afraid to pull the rug from under us a couple of times. At times the dialogue might feel a bit preachy and forced, but the delivery of the cast helps. Peck is pretty good in the lead role, but I was more surprised by McGuire who perfectly portrays the defeatist apathy of her character who refuses to fight back. I was also surprised by Celeste Holm who plays one of Green's co-workers offering a balance of common sense and transparency in contrast to Kathy's veiled prejudices. Kudos also to John Garfield, who portrays Green's childhood friend, who happens to be Jewish and probably has some of the best lines and moments on the film.

I can tell you it was my initial pick for you, but had to switch cause someone had already recommended it to you.

Citizen Rules

07-27-21, 06:00 PM

I just read Thief's review that he linked, nicely said!
I've seen Gentleman's Agreement a couple of times and really liked it. Nope it wasn't my choice for Thursday.

My review of Gentleman's Agreement (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1664674#post1664674)

cricket

07-27-21, 06:22 PM

Pick it up Sidney!

edarsenal

07-27-21, 07:00 PM

I was thinking about picking it for you until it got taken. I wasn't sure how much you'd like it. As popular as it seems to be, it also seems to be somewhat divisive.

I have not seen The Searchers, but everything I've read/heard is great. I have it on my short list.
It is a bit divisive and even though it opened up with a gosh gee feel as family got together it didn't stay that way and while I easily see how people can be split by all that occurs in the film, I found that aspect enhanced it for me.

edarsenal

07-27-21, 07:03 PM

The ending was so good too :bawling:
YEAH it was!! :)
and love the idea of recording your thoughts about a film. That's gotta be handy as hell

edarsenal

07-27-21, 07:06 PM

Probably why I hated it, because I hate In Bruges too.

you are such a complex mystery to me, sir. You truly are.
I would have guessed you liked that one

edarsenal

07-27-21, 07:14 PM

Yeah. The Untouchables.
I would put that film in around 65-75% CR would enjoy seeing it. Though I would still give a bit of a margin depending on certain scenes. I don't see him loving it, but, it'll hit the mid-mark for him, definitely.

cricket

07-27-21, 07:18 PM

I don't see CR liking much from De Palma, who's one of my favorite directors.

edarsenal

07-27-21, 07:33 PM

I don't see CR liking much from De Palma, who's one of my favorite directors.
That would be the wild card to send it spinning

rauldc14

07-27-21, 07:46 PM

you are such a complex mystery to me, sir. You truly are.
I would have guessed you liked that one

I'd say though I've "hated" more films than I do now

rauldc14

07-27-21, 08:15 PM

I also didn't care for Gentlemans Agreement but I love Kazan

Takoma11

07-27-21, 08:41 PM

Gentleman’s Agreement

1947 Oscar winner about a journalist who pretends to be Jewish to investigate anti-Semitism. This is the sort of film that still wins Oscars these days – a solid, talky issue film.

It’s a little ponderous and takes a long time to get going – in the time it takes him to think of an angle for a story he is writing (at least 30 minutes, and we all know from the summary of the film what that angle will be), our leading man has managed to get engaged to his new editor’s niece. Either he’s very slow at thinking of angles for stories, or very quick at proposing. Probably both.

It’s all very well meaning and does have some serious and astute points to make about anti-Semitism and about how inaction from those who purport to be against it help it to flourish, in the character of Kathy. Interesting to see that anti-Semitism was such a huge thing in America in the 40s - I'd never heard of 'restricted' hotels before. I still think there’s something a bit off about the premise of this man pretending to be Jewish, although he obviously has good intentions. More uncomfortable still was when he harangues the actually Jewish secretary about anti-Semitism after his 8 weeks of experience.

Although it’s not the main point of the film, I liked the presentation of the domestic side of things, and the relationships between Phil and his ill mother, his young son (played by Dean Stockwell) and his old friend. I liked the character of Anne. I felt that the romance was too shoe-horned in and I didn’t like the ending. It doesn’t have much visual flair.

I’m glad I watched this, because I want to watch all the Best Picture winners, but I doubt it would place high on my ranking of best picture winners. All in all it was fine but not great.

I really like Gentleman's Agreement. I think that the anti-Semitism in the 40s was more strong than many people think. I recently watched Best Years of Our Lives and there's a scene where a man tells one of the veterans that the USA sided with the "wrong side".

My sticking point was the romance as well. Not only did it feel shoe-horned, Anne was RIGHT THERE! And yet he ends up with the woman who is snobby and bigoted?!

Thief

07-27-21, 09:01 PM

THE INNOCENTS
(1961, Clayton)

https://reelclub.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/ti4.jpg

"All I want to do is save the children, not destroy them. More than anything, I love children."

"More than anything, I love children". That's Miss Giddens' (Deborah Kerr) selling point in order to secure a job as the "governess" (or caretaker) of two recently orphaned children in this eerie dramatic thriller. With no desire to take care of them, their wealthy but selfish uncle disposes of them in the hands of Giddens and the housekeeper at his country estate, but not before reminding her of her own words. "They need affection and love... I feel that you are that person".

The Innocents follows Miss Giddens as she tries to take care of the kids. But things start to unravel when she starts to fear that the estate is haunted and that the kids are possessed, putting to the test her love and her desire to "save the children". Can she handle the situation? Will she do what's needed to "save" them?

This is a pretty darn good film, but the story behind the scenes is compelling as well. Based on a popular play, the original script was written by William Archibald. However, producer/director Jack Clayton, wanting to add layers to Archibald's script, commissioned Truman Capote to rework it, incorporating deeper psychological themes that take the story beyond the inherent eeriness of its plot.

But also the excellent performances elevate what is already a great script. Kerr does a great job of portraying the mental and emotional deterioration in Giddens; from a rather naïve and insecure, yet eager woman to someone who's desperate for answers at any cost. Pamela Franklin and Martin Stephens are simply excellent as the two children: Flora and Miles. Stephens, in particular is a revelation in almost every scene he's in.

Finally, a gorgeous black and white cinematography and an assured direction from Clayton create a creepy atmosphere that juxtaposes feelings of isolation with a sense that these characters might not be alone. Something that's bound to drive anyone into the edge of uneasiness, or even madness.

Grade: 4

Takoma11

07-27-21, 09:18 PM

Just watched this for Horror Movie Club a few weeks ago. So solid.

rauldc14

07-27-21, 09:44 PM

I remember really liking The Innocents too. Been awhile though.

Citizen Rules

07-27-21, 10:01 PM

The Innocents won the 17th HoF. Helluva movie, with oodles of atmosphere. I've seen other version of it too and there all good and all had a slightly different take as to just what was going on.

edarsenal

07-27-21, 10:32 PM

Innocents is a VERY solid film.

Okay

07-28-21, 10:16 AM

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=79624
Paris, Texas (Wim Wenders 1984)

Reaction: Impressed

As strange as it might seem I don't really remember the movie after a week but like Harry Dean Stanton's character I know something real important took place.

https://www.popoptiq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/vlcsnap-2014-01-30-08h35m50s153.png

When I think of cinematography, this is one of the first films that pop into my mind. There are some insane achievements that were made here when it comes to shot composition and framing, I'd even go to say the film is revolutionary in that sense. So simple but sophisticated. Flawless and effortless at the same time. Genuinely a beautiful movie visually and definitely story wise as well.

I also remember particularly loving the child performance, and he still sticks out to me as one of the best ever in my eyes. I loved how his character was written in general, because most of the time children are written as stupid when in reality they're way smarter and more aware than movies give them credit for, so it's great to see that respect level there.

Okay

07-28-21, 10:35 AM

Plus it has that unique Bong mixture of drama and thrills with a bit of quirk and offbeat humor.
I haven't seen Memories of Murder yet, it's one of the few Bong films I've yet to watch, but I would agree that that is his best quality and it's surely present in every single film of his that I've seen. His ability to combine serious and humorous story elements so effectively, without losing any tension or feel of consequences in the serious portions, and without losing the hilarity of the funny portions either. It's always impressive to see him blend genres in such a clean way.

edarsenal

07-28-21, 01:21 PM

I've seen Parasite, Mother, Snowpiercer, The Host and I really should see Okja but Memories of Murder is very high on my Watchlist for this year. And like Thief and Okay comment on, (extremely well) regarding just how much of a mixologist the man is when it comes to blending serious and comedic elements without tipping the scales regarding the effectiveness of either. Each enhancing the other.
Just an utter treat to behold and experience.

edarsenal

07-28-21, 02:44 PM

https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_480w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2013/07/02/Style/Images/Searchers1.jpg?uuid=KFmNOONpEeKA6zFF4plKVQ

The Searchers (1956)

[B]Reverend Clayton: Jorgenson!
Ethan: Why don't you finish the job?
[shoots out the eyes of the Comanche warrior]
Reverend Clayton: What good did that do ya?
Ethan: By what you preach, none. But what that Comanche believes, ain't got no eyes, he can't enter the spirit-land. Has to wander forever between the winds. You get it, Reverend.
Ethan: [to Martin] Come on, blanket-head!

cricket nailed it when describing this film as divisive. It is. Exceedingly so. There's a part of me that feels guilty for not only enjoying but fully loving this film. Those divisive aspects adding to my overall appreciation for actually delving into them as they did. Ethan (John Wayne) is not a hero saving his niece from evil savages but a revenge-ridden man hellbent and too f@ckin stubborn to change nor apologize for who he is or what he does. That revenge is extended by, and this is never spoken, but shown (VERY briefly) by a gravestone the young Debbie hides behind belonging to Ethan's wife, murdered by Comanches.
His narrowminded vengeance is amplified as well as the wrongness of it as the search involves interaction with Comanche tribes. Director Ford employed Navajo natives for every Comanche role except the leading character Scar (Henry Brandon), who has an excellent retort to Ethan's derisive "You talk good English; someone teach you?"
Before they enter his teepee to parley, he stands toe to toe, chest to chest, telling him, "You speak good Comanche, someone teach you?" and enters, not caring for an answer. Leaving Ethan to pause and think about it. In the end, the pause ending and is forgotten as he enters.

This film is chock full of such scenes where the moral ground is kicked about and argued over. Considering how this film opens with a gosh, gee enthusiasm as Ethan returns to a homestead from the Civil War, those scenes resonate incredibly so for me. My already high appreciation of John Ford, albeit an overly God Bless America dogma when it comes to his films, he IS an exceptional Director. That direction delving into the secondary characters and the interactions of friends, family, and yes, the rare insistences that interaction brought to play beyond the antagonistic, volatile conflicts out in the desert and mountains with Comanches.
I need to remark on the amazing, and I mean AMAZING landscapes in this film. I read that the cinematographer(?) for Lawerence of Arabia studied them before working on that film.
https://64.media.tumblr.com/b2d596c18d89afb36d7866681ce116d1/tumblr_nn53k2BeJh1qetb0ho1_640.jpg
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I can't even count the number of times I was struck by the beauty captured, time and again throughout this film. Extending to that final shot, including everyone entering the darkness of the home, adding a "What now?" to it all as Ethan stands outside. Saying SO MUCH without a single utterance. WOW!
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Any hoot, but before this gets too d@mn epic, I wanted to explore a little more regarding the interactions of the rest of the cast. Such as the headbutting between Ethan and his estranged brother, the Reverend, the sympathetic, amusing Mose and his crazy ramblings to the fistfight between two friends before the wedding, and the politeness that permeates it.
Said interactions are a common staple of Ford films and one of the reasons he was the Director with the most films on my list for the Western Countdown. For which this would have found a spot. However, it would have been a difficult one having to extract another for it. But it would have been done.

rauldc14

07-28-21, 02:57 PM

Sullivan's Travels

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Whoever picked this for me must have known I think McCrea is a pretty underrated actor, and I thought that trend was strengthened with this film too. And obviously having Veronica Lake in the movie was a huge bonus too. Their chemistry worked real well in this film for me. It had the feel of a Capra film, and obviously I'm a pretty big fan of his too. Screwball like this just works for me even if it isn't for everybody. Plus the film looked really good, something maybe I wouldn't have expected to say about it being a romantic comedy type of film and all. The only off-putting thing was how I just found the whole sentenced to six years thing kind of weird, but certainly not enough to ruin my enjoyment of the film. Cool to have gotten around to it finally. Look forward to even more Sturges. Did I mention how great Lake was?

4

edarsenal

07-28-21, 03:19 PM

Lake was pretty great in this. Pretty much agree in entirety with you on Sullivan's Travels. Including MeCrea being underated.

Citizen Rules

07-29-21, 08:53 PM

79770
Secrets & Lies (Mike Leigh 1996)
Reaction: hmm

See that screenshot? That's my reaction to the film.

Now, don't get my wrong, I loved the subject matter which was right up my alley. In fact I expected to like this. The two lead actresses were good too.

I hate to describe a film as boring but I was bored with Secret & Lies. Everything felt so artificial, so much like a daytime TV soap opera. There was barely 90 minutes of relevant story here, which leaves an additional 50 minutes of added padding. Hence part of the reason I was bored.

I felt like each character was doing their own little monologue and wasn't really connected to the film's universe. It was like each actor got a bit of 'me time' to do their own personal, emotional breakdown scene. One after another they all delivered their little scenes at the birthday party and I didn't but any of it. Eventually I ended up laughing out loud at these people, really I did! Only it wasn't suppose to be funny....After the movie I read on IMDB that the director let the actors improvise a lot of their own dialogue, I'm not surprised either.

Anyway, sorry to whoever chose this for me. It sounded good and if someone else had directed it, it might have been good.

edarsenal

07-29-21, 08:57 PM

I've only seen Naked from Leigh and haven't heard of that one, sorry to hear it didn't work for ya, CR

Citizen Rules

07-29-21, 08:58 PM

I've only seen Naked from Leigh and haven't heard of that one, sorry to hear it didn't work for ya, CR I just cut this out of my review as it didn't really belong so I'm giving it to you as a reply:p

Twice in the past I was perusing the shelves of my local library when I came across a DVD that starred Sally Hawkins. I really like Sally Hawkins and the movie sounded good, so I borrowed it and watched it...then after 10 minutes of inane, fake sounding dialogue I shut it off. Twice I tried to watch Mike Leigh's Happy-Go-Lucky and twice I shut it off. I can't stand his movie Naked either with the same chatter driven, faux characters.

Allaby

07-29-21, 09:04 PM

Although I wasn't the one who nominated it, I liked Secrets & Lies a lot. Vera Drake is my favourite of Leigh's film. I thought Happy Go Lucky was just ok and I hated Naked.

Citizen Rules

07-29-21, 09:08 PM

Although I wasn't the one who nominated it, I liked Secrets & Lies a lot. Vera Drake is my favourite of Leigh's film. I thought Happy Go Lucky was just ok and I hated Naked.I haven't seen Vera Drake, but I did see Mr. Turner which is a film about the mid 19th century painter, I liked that one.

My short and spoiler free! review of Mr. Turner (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1362967#post1362967)

Thief

07-29-21, 09:51 PM

Starting Tootsie now to close the month.

edarsenal

07-29-21, 11:09 PM

Didn't know Leigh did Turner, really enjoyed that one myself

ENJOY Tootsie, Thief!

Okay

07-30-21, 09:43 AM

Red Road

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Blind watch, but I recognized the name of the director, Andrea Arnold. I thought she was the director of Wendy & Lucy and Night Moves so I wasn't very excited. My hopes were raised when I realized she was the director of Fish Tank and American Honey, movies I liked much more.

It starts out with mysterious and voyeuristic qualities and I had no idea where it was going. It was almost like a thriller. It's an extremely bleak movie that in the end was quite sad and powerful. Very good performances especially from the lead actress and it's filmed beautifully. Another good choice for me.

3.5+

I actually just watched this yesterday and enjoyed it as well. I loved the heavy use of CCTV and us focusing on a main character with that kind of a job, thought that was quite unique and interesting. I really dug how in the beginning information was slowly and subtly being revealed. I like watching characters that are ****ed up, as they're pretty fascinating to watch go about, and I thought the film was going that way especially when we see that scene of her in the bathroom after having sex with the guy (it gave me The Piano Teacher vibes), and then her goal and intentions are revealed which debunked my theories but I was still ok with where it was going, but then by the end once everything was revealed I was disappointed because it was a bunch of the same old stuff and made everything that preceded less challenging and interesting. Things became more predictable and generic, and everything wrapped up too nicely for my liking.

Okay

07-30-21, 09:43 AM

As for some of the other films mentioned recently.

Persona I have not seen since my first viewing, and that feels like ages ago. It was my first Bergman, I do remember liking it, and I do remember even writing about it for mofo but I don't wanna dig that up as I'm sure whatever I wrote is an absolute cringefest. Point is, I've changed so much as a moviegoer since then, and I've also gone through a good chunk of his films since then, Winter Light and Cries & Whispers being favourites. Nonetheless, this film of his especially needs a revisit from me.

Mustang I don't have much to say about either, and I only remember the general story of it as explained by Thief. I don't recall loving it though, nor disliking it...maybe I'll watch it again someday...maybe not.

I haven't seen Missing by Costa-Gavras, but I have seen Z which was a very pleasant surprise because I usually don't enjoy political films when I'm not too familiar with their subject, but this one obviously has a lot more to offer than just that. It was very cinematic, and the presentation was definitely its best quality, the editing and score in particular. I still remember those last few minutes because of how they were edited together, and how the music was crucial into the intensity and fun. It's also another movie about how frustratingly pointless it is to oppose the government and how the ball will always be in their court no matter their opposition.

Okay

07-30-21, 01:09 PM

Apocalypse Now (1979) directed by Francis Ford Coppola

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The opening sequence of Apocalypse Now might just be my favourite opening to a film ever. The combination of the editing, the music, the cinematography, and the actions that take place make this a masterful way to introduce the film and its main character, settling us into his state and feelings at that point of time, and gearing us for what's soon to come in the movie.

I overall loved the episodic nature of the film, with each set of scenes giving their own vibes while being the very best at their genre. My favourite episode has to be the one with the crazy Kilgore. It reminded me a lot of Full Metal Jacket in the sense that it was beautiful and hilarious yet so so terrifying. And just like Full Metal, the craftsmanship reaches an insane level here, but that's also the case throughout the entirety of the film. I would even say that the craft here is unprecedented which explains the craziness of the production.

If there's anything I disliked it was Chef's character at first. I thought he was unnecessarily annoying and I would've rathered he died in place of Chief who was much more interesting to me at that point. But then, later on, he definitely goes through a character transformation that made me appreciate him more, and now I can't even imagine the last episode of the film without him. Not to mention, I didn't think it was time for Chief to die when he did, and his death itself was pretty abrupt and a little out of nowhere. It almost felt as though the story needed him to die asap before they reach Brando's island, and I get that but it still could've been handled better, especially with his kind of character who deserved a more proper sendoff.

Speaking of Brando, I'm sure I'm not saying anything new here, but I especially loved the way he was shot and framed and just overall looked. There's a lot to say about him in general, I'm sure he's polarizing as there's a lot of ways you can take him and interpret him, but even with all of that in mind you still can't truly understand him or figure him out, and I really like that. He definitely feels like a godly figure that has transcended logic and feelings. I also like how there's so much build up towards him way before we actually meet him, with Martin Sheen (who's fantastic btw) analysing him for us and trying to figure him out more and more with each passing episode. And this is what I was talking about in Platoon, you can have crazy evil people in your movie without them being cartoony or feeling phony. The fact that I can't even call characters like Kilgore and Kurtz antagonists speaks volumes to what the movie was able to accomplish. Every last character in here, whether they're over the top or reserved, likeable or not likeable, they're all super memorable, and that's because they feel genuine and they're carefully written and portrayed. Not trying to diss Platoon because as I've said before I definitely enjoyed it, but this is on a whole other level.

So yeah, I'm happy to have finally watched this and I'm glad to not have been disappointed. It's definitely a movie worthy and deserving of many revisits, hell that entire conclusion was a lot to take in, I mean that cow scene...**** I'm still speechless about it.

Okay

07-30-21, 03:09 PM

The Devil’s Backbone (2001) directed by Guillermo del Toro

https://posterspy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/the-devils-backbone-poster-by-matt-talbot.jpg

I don't have as much to say about The Devil's Backbone as any other film I've written about here and that's mainly because it was easily the least memorable one out of the bunch. This is a competent good looking movie, it has great aesthetics, great production design, a great setting, but as far as my emotional investment in the story, that remained on a surface level. Even though the story elements are competent, they lacked the inventiveness that is present within the technicalities of the film. And the characters themselves are even less interesting, so to have the entire first hour focusing solely on them made that a very hard watch. And this is a general problem that I have with Del Toro, and I said similar things about Pan's Labyrinth back in the Foreign Language Hall of Fame, the only difference being is that the creature designs are a thousand times better in the latter, but the overall storytelling and the characters are probably just as dry and stale.

cricket

07-30-21, 08:43 PM

Great job Okay with back to back reviews!

Surprised CR didn't care for Secrets & Lies. It was picked for me before and I loved it.

Thief

07-30-21, 09:50 PM

TOOTSIE
(1982, Pollack)

https://www.moviehousememories.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Tootsie-1982-featured-3.jpg

"I am Dorothy. Dorothy is me. Nobody's writing that part. It's coming out of me."

Tootsie follows Michael Dorsey (Dustin Hoffman), an unemployed actor that's been "blacklisted" for being a perfectionist and hard to work with. Desperate for money, he assumes the persona of Dorothy, a middle aged, feisty woman, in order to land a job in a soap opera. Of course, things get complicated when "she" becomes a star, while also falling in love for "her" main co-star (Jessica Lange).

This is a film I didn't feel that drawn to; I probably wouldn't have seen it if someone hadn't recommended it to me, but I'm glad I watched it. However, I won't deny that I had some significant issues with how the plot develops, but for the most part, it was an enjoyable watch, well acted and with some important and still relevant points to get across about the treatment of women in the workforce, and in general.

The thing is that it has to be a man the one that tries to get those points across. I like that the experience serves as a moment of introspection for Michael and how he himself views and treats women, but when it comes to the larger point of how women are seen and treated in the workforce, and how they react, the fact that a man is the catalyst for this "change" kinda muddles the message.

In addition, there is no proper balance in terms of male vs. female characters. Michael/Dorothy interacts primarily with two female characters: Sandy (Teri Garr) and Julie (Lange). The former is a well-intentioned, female friend with whom he gets "accidentally" involved. Unfortunately, she ends up being used as a bit of comic relief in the end, and comes up as a bit of a hysterical, while Julie, although a more balanced character, still comes off a bit underdeveloped and ultimately needy.

Finally, I don't think the conclusion was properly executed. The character of Sandy, regardless of how important seemed to be, ends up being unceremoniously dismissed, and the resolution to Michael/Dorothy's predicament felt haphazardly executed. Despite those issues, the acting is solid. Dabney Coleman, who was quite a presence in the 80s, is great as a sexist director, and so is Bill Murray, who I didn't even know was in this, as Michael's roommate.

But the key to the film is Hoffman. Not only is he perfect in the role, but he also seemed to be a driving force behind the film's production. Hoffman, who oversaw the writing process, said in an interview that the film helped him reevaluate how he related to women. He said he found the character of "Dorothy" to be interesting, but argued that he would not have spoken to her because she was not beautiful, which led him to realize how many interesting conversations he had missed. For a man that must've met hundreds/thousands of women, it's weird that it took a meeting with a "man" to realize it.

Grade: 3

cricket

07-31-21, 08:27 AM

I think that's the most negative review of Tootsie I've ever seen. I loved it back in the day but it's been decades since I last watched it.

Citizen Rules

07-31-21, 09:43 AM

I've not seen Tootsie, but I'm betting I'd like it especially after just learning that Terri Garr is in it.

seanc

07-31-21, 10:11 AM

Allaby

07-31-21, 11:50 AM

I really enjoyed Tootsie. I have the Criterion blu ray. It's a fun, enjoyable film with good performances and a smart screenplay.

Thief

07-31-21, 12:34 PM

Been a long time since I saw Tootsie, I definitely didn’t love it.

Isn’t the whole point that a man is getting a female perspective of how women are treated in the workplace? I don’t think the premise makes any sense with a female lead. Women already know how they are treated. That’s a different movie.

My argument isn't to change the lead into a female, but rather that the male is the catalyst for women to want to demand fair treatment and for the audiences of the "show" to notice what a "strong female" is. Plus I don't think there was a balanced portrayal of females to contrast against Hoffman's character.

Anyway, 3 popcorn thingies isn't negative at all. Like I said in my review, I enjoyed it, regardless of those issues.

seanc

07-31-21, 12:48 PM

My argument isn't to change the lead into a female, but rather that the male is the catalyst for women to want to demand fair treatment and for the audiences of the "show" to notice what a "strong female" is. Plus I don't think there was a balanced portrayal of females to contrast against Hoffman's character.

Anyway, 3 popcorn thingies isn't negative at all. Like I said in my review, I enjoyed it, regardless of those issues.

Fair enough

Takoma11

07-31-21, 01:17 PM

Isn’t the whole point that a man is getting a female perspective of how women are treated in the workplace? I don’t think the premise makes any sense with a female lead. Women already know how they are treated. That’s a different movie.

As someone who does really like Tootsie, the problem is more the idea that men need to be the agents of change, and also a little bit of the problematic idea that you can't understand someone else's struggles unless you literally walk a mile in their shoes.

It's obviously true, to an extent, that at some point people in power need to be willing to share power. But as Thief points out, the film doesn't do a great job of empowering its female leads, so at the end Michael leans more toward savior than ally.

So the problem isn't the concept (a man learning what life is like as a woman), but more how it treats the actual women in the story relative to the male lead. And the movie is obviously coming from a place of empathy, it's just that it paints itself into a corner a bit because of how much it centers the action on its main male character.

That said, Tootsie is easily a 4 or even a 4.5 film for me.

seanc

07-31-21, 01:24 PM

As someone who does really like Tootsie, the problem is more the idea that men need to be the agents of change, and also a little bit of the problematic idea that you can't understand someone else's struggles unless you literally walk a mile in their shoes.

It's obviously true, to an extent, that at some point people in power need to be willing to share power. But as Thief points out, the film doesn't do a great job of empowering its female leads, so at the end Michael leans more toward savior than ally.

So the problem isn't the concept (a man learning what life is like as a woman), but more how it treats the actual women in the story relative to the male lead. And the movie is obviously coming from a place of empathy, it's just that it paints itself into a corner a bit because of how much it centers the action on its main male character.

That said, Tootsie is easily a 4 or even a 4.5 film for me.

What do you like so much about it?

Takoma11

07-31-21, 01:38 PM

What do you like so much about it?

A good chunk of it is nostalgia. Our family owned a VHS tape of it, and so my sister and I watched it a LOT. It was one of the main "grown-up" movies that I watched as an adolescent.

But I also just think it's a really funny movie. And it shows that you can make a (for lack of a better word) political point in a really accessible way.

I haven't seen it in years, and so I might have a slightly different opinion of it now. For example, I know that the older man who likes "Dorothy" later makes a comment implying he would have reacted with violence if he'd ever kissed her. That's obviously a nasty echo with the violence that trans-women face, and not really something I was tuned into as an eleven year old.

I'm going to add it to my watchlist, because now I'm curious to know what I think of it as a middle-aged person and not a middle schooler.

Thief

07-31-21, 02:06 PM

But I also just think it's a really funny movie. And it shows that you can make a (for lack of a better word) political point in a really accessible way.

I agree about how funny it is. There is a scene where Michael is trying to keep his agent (played neatly by Sydney Pollack himself) up to date with what's happening and he's getting him all mixed up with what's happening to "Dorothy" and what's happening to "Michael", who's Les, who's Sandy, who's Julie... and that scene was really funny.

I haven't seen it in years, and so I might have a slightly different opinion of it now. For example, I know that the older man who likes "Dorothy" later makes a comment implying he would have reacted with violence if he'd ever kissed her. That's obviously a nasty echo with the violence that trans-women face, and not really something I was tuned into as an eleven year old.

That comment aside, which we can also attribute to the anger of being deceived instead of any gender issue, I really liked the way that final conversation between the two was carried and Charles Durning was pretty good in it.

But probably on the same line of the older man's comment, there's also a "toss-away" line from the sexist director towards the end, when Michael reveals himself, where he says "I knew there was a reason she didn't like me!" which kinda rubbed me the wrong way. Not that the film focused a lot in how this character changed because of "Dorothy", but that comment feels like a justification for his previous actions ("She didn't like me, not because I'm a sexist pig, but because 'she' is actually a 'he', so I can be relieved and continue with my usual behaviors") It's ultimately a toss-away comment meant to be funny, so I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but like I said a couple of times already, I ultimately enjoyed the film.

Allaby

08-01-21, 12:25 PM

I watched Onibaba (1964). Directed by Kaneto Shindô, the film stars Nobuko Otowa and Jitsuko Yoshimura as a woman and her daughter in law who kill samurais and sell what they take from them. Further complications arise when the daughter in law has an affair with a neighboring man who has returned from the war. I really liked the concept of the film, but it didn't grab me in the way I would have hoped or expected. The execution of the story only worked somewhat for me. The performances were fine, but I wasn't blown away by anyone. I was only mildly invested in the characters and what was going on with them. The cinematography is quite striking and effective though. I'm not convinced that this film is a masterpiece as some have suggested, but it is still a good film and I'm glad I finally saw it. 3.5

seanc

08-01-21, 01:08 PM

Pandora's Box: I really loved this, it had my mind racing throughout. On one hand it felt very misogynistic, on the other it certainly had only disdain for the plethora of male predators throughout. In fact, I am not sure there is a redeeming character in this film. Nihilism before it became the rage. This is what good art does, makes us question our behavior. our expectations, our assumptions. Makes us think about how we should deal with broken, animalistic humanity. Great stuff.

The film also looked great and had a lovely score. Never sure with silent scores. I know sometimes new scores are added when the films are restored. Either way, bravo. Very good rec for me. Looks like the two silents chosen for me will be at the top of my list.

cricket

08-01-21, 04:51 PM

I think I nominated Pandora's Box in a HoF? Good flick.

Love Onibaba!

seanc

08-01-21, 08:21 PM

seanc

08-01-21, 08:37 PM

I don’t know how everyone feels about this, and too late for this time I’m sure. A cool thing for these might be for whoever wins to pick their favorite nom into the official HOF.

SpelingError

08-01-21, 10:21 PM

I don’t know how everyone feels about this, and too late for this time I’m sure. A cool thing for these might be for whoever wins to pick their favorite nom into the official HOF.

By favorite nom, do you mean a film that you nominated, a film someone else nominated for you, or any film which was nominated in here?

seanc

08-01-21, 10:28 PM

By favorite nom, do you mean a film that you nominated, a film someone else nominated for you, or any film which was nominated in here?

I was thinking a film you nominated but definitely could be your fave nom in general.

cricket

08-01-21, 10:29 PM

The Scarlet Empress: I will definitely be willing to give this one another shot if it gets another restoration. It plays like a lush epic but all of that has been lost visually unfortunately. That could change my mind about the film but it also wasn’t a very well put together narrative. It’s not playful or funny. There’s really no suspense. Sorry to whoever nominated this, but it wasn’t for me this go around.

How dare you crap on a HoF winner!

The only time I've ever won a HoF, it had like 5 members:p

What surprises me most is that you didn't think it was playful

https://list.lisimg.com/image/4633315/500full.jpg

cricket

08-01-21, 10:30 PM

Congratulations Sean, you are the 2nd member to finish!

SpelingError

08-01-21, 10:34 PM

I was thinking a film you nominated but definitely could be your fave nom in general.

I'm not in this HoF as you already know, but that could probably work. If someone wants to do it, go ahead I say.

seanc

08-01-21, 10:36 PM

How dare you crap on a HoF winner!

The only time I've ever won a HoF, it had like 5 members:p

What surprises me most is that you didn't think it was playful

https://list.lisimg.com/image/4633315/500full.jpg

Man, I wanted so much more of Dietrich chewing up the scenery. There was a moment or two, but not nearly enough.

Hey Fredrick

08-02-21, 12:05 PM

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.medialifecrisis.com%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Farticles%2F201507-Popgap%2FHigh-and-Low-1963%2FHigh-and-Low-1963-00-55-15.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

High and Low (1963)

King Gondo:That's enough! You're not paid to think!

The plot: A shoe company executive has plans to take over the company. The day before he finalizes the very expensive deal his son is kidnapped and held for ransom. Well, it turns out his kid was not kidnapped but his chauffeur's son was mistakenly abducted. Great little early twist and I love how it created the conflict which was the grab of the first hour.

The first hour is great. Mifune does a wonderful job as the conflicted Gondo. If he pays the ransom, his life is screwed. If he doesn't pay he's uh, kind of a bad dude and his life is screwed. What would you do? It also keeps you guessing as to who did it and why which leads to the second part of the movie.

After the first hour the movie shifts to the detectives hunt for the kidnapper. Now, this isn't bad by any means, in fact it's very good but it doesn't have the inner conflict elements which I thought was the strength of the first act. The investigation leads to some pretty seedy areas and this part of the film is were Kurosawa gets to really have some fun from behind the camera. Those glasses were bad ass and I loved the ending - the final scene.

First non-samurai film I've seen from Kurosawa and it's a winner!

Hey Fredrick

08-02-21, 12:27 PM

A few of the other films I've seen:

Field of Dreams - I love this movie but I'm a baseball fan which I think helps. Maybe not, though as I know a lot of baseball fans who hate this movie. It's a bit sappy but it does tap into some of the most basic things I love about the game. Sometimes just throwing a ball back and forth in the back yard is all you need. I even visited the Field of Dreams back in the day which, according to a pretty popular travel website, is the best thing to do in Dyersville, Iowa. Color me shocked!

Onibaba I also liked quite a bit. You can take your Michael Meyers, Ghost Face, Jason masks and shove 'em! Onibaba has the best mask!

Viridiana was my introduction to Buneul and I loved it immediately.

When Harry Met Sally... is my favorite rom-com, a genre I am a huge fan of. "Mmmmm, can't get enough of 'em" - Heathers (1988). I really do like it though.

Tootsie is another winner. Haven't seen it in years but it does have one of the more memorable lines of any movie I've seen -
Producer: "I'd like to make her look a little more attractive. How far can you pull back?"
Cameraman: "How do you feel about Cleveland?"

Thief

08-02-21, 12:37 PM

When Harry Met Sally is also my favorite romcom, and since Raul brought it up a couple of days ago, I wanted to share this special episode of my podcast where I analyze specifically the scene when, well, Harry meets Sally.

Thief's Monthly Movie Loot - Special Episode IV (When Harry Met Sally...) (https://www.buzzsprout.com/850063/8031642-thief-s-monthly-movie-loot-special-episode-iv-when-harry-met-sally.mp3?download=true)

Thursday Next

08-02-21, 02:14 PM

The Cranes Are Flying

I'm not sure I can do much of an analytical review of this film, it was just too emotional. I'd say it's one of the saddest films I've seen, but there are so many sad films, especially about the war. I don't know that it's sadder than Forbidden Games, for example, but it's in that sort of league.

The main actress in this film was excellent, she was just luminous and did a lot of acting just with her eyes.

It was a good looking film, with some interesting angles and close ups. Unfortunately the copy I watched did not seem to be the best quality, which is a shame, I'm sure there's a cleaned up version out there somewhere.

A very good film and a good nomination, thank you!

cricket

08-02-21, 06:33 PM

High and Low and The Cranes are Flying are both practically can't miss nominations.

Thursday Next

08-03-21, 12:12 PM

I am struggling to get hold of The River, it doesn't seem to be available on streaming or dvd.

mark f

08-03-21, 12:39 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by0JkAi9o_8

Thursday Next

08-03-21, 12:41 PM

Thanks Mark, but that's blocked in my country. :(

mark f

08-03-21, 12:47 PM

Is the [US] Criterion Channel blocked?

Thursday Next

08-03-21, 12:49 PM

Is the [US] Criterion Channel blocked?

Yeah, that's not available in the UK either.

rauldc14

08-03-21, 01:06 PM

cricket

08-05-21, 06:47 PM

edarsenal

08-06-21, 08:32 PM

sent ya a link in comments Thursday

Hey Fredrick

08-08-21, 11:38 AM

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F26%2F58%2F83%2F265883670c1357ab10a8128b33d6e60f.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Touch of Evil (1958)

Vargas: Captain, you won't have any trouble with me.
Quinlan: You bet your sweet life I won't.

I've had this movie stored on my dvr for a while now but never got around to watching it. It stars Charlton Heston as a Mexican prosecutor with an American wife (Janet Leigh) who get involved in an investigation headed up by dirty cop (Orson Welles) about the car bombing/murder of a politician and stripper. Alright, alright, alright!

I really liked this movie but it does have a couple things that bothered me. The first was the casting of Heston. Heston as an NYPD detective investigating green food - Yes. Heston as Moses - Yes. Heston as an astronaut landing on a planet of apes - Yes. As a Mexican prosecutor? That's a reach. Everytime he was on screen all I could think about was how much he reminded me of Pat Healy (There's Something About Mary). I think somebody like Anthony Quinn could have pulled it off a little better but he probably wasn't the draw that Heston was. He also may not have matched up as well as Heston, physically, with the oversized, puffy Welles. The second was Janet Leigh's character. Janet was fine as Heston's wife and I'm really coming around on Janet as an actress, it's just that the character was really nothing more than a put her in trouble to make the story work character. I went back and rewatched how she ended up at that hotel and it made me feel a little better, getting it straight on how that all went down, but if I'm Heston, who is also the key witness in an upcoming drug kingpin trial, I wouldn't be sending her off into the middle of nowhere for a couple days or even one, by herself. Finally, the ending. I don't know. If I'm drunk and hobbled I don't think I'm taking a very long stroll to talk to anybody. Maybe if we're heading to another bar I may find the energy but other than that it isn't happening

Orson Welles... Wow! This is a performance for the ages. Easily one of the best/worst characters ever. I put this performance/character right up there with Tommy DeVito, Sgt. Barnes and Harry Powell. He's almost too good as he is the draw every time he's on screen. All the supporting actors are very good to excellent but only Marlene Dietrich, in a small role, matched the on screen oomph of the Big Guy. As director, Welles doesn't pull out all the stops like he does in Citizen Kane (well, there is the famous first shot ) but he's still creating a visually interesting movie and manages to keep all the moving parts, and there's a lot of them, connected. I especially liked a few of the shots where Welles' character is in the foreground giving him this MASSIVE appearance over his partner. I also give him credit for throwing in one final shot of a character who meets an unfortunate end. It wasn't necessary but that kind of stuff is right up my alley.

Doesn't really have anything to do with anything but it would have been kind of funny if Orson could have found a way to have Zsa Zsa, in a great performance, slap one of the cops.

I didn't realize how strong the nominations were this time around. I already know that my number five film will be one of the best movies I see this year.

edarsenal

08-08-21, 01:40 PM

Heston as a Mexican was a bit of a stretch for me too. As well as a lot of things you mentioned across the board. A very solid film by The Big Guy, Wells.

Also, glad to hear how happy you are about your list

Allaby

08-08-21, 01:54 PM

I watched Harakiri (1962) today. Directed by Masaki Kobayashi, the film stars Tatsuya Nakadai as a man who asks to commit ritual suicide at a feudal lord's palace. As the story progresses, we learn the reasoning and motivation behind his request. This film is very highly rated by critics and audiences and on a lot of film related sites. I think this is a very good film, but I can't help but feel that it is somewhat overrated. A lot of people seem to consider this a masterpiece and perfect film, but I personally do not. I liked the film and there is much to appreciate about it, but I wouldn't consider it one of the greatest films ever.
Tatsuya Nakadai's performance is excellent and the cinematography is beautifully done. For me, the film felt a little too long and dragged at times. There are some great moments, but it didn't always work for me. I'm glad I finally got around to seeing the film and although I may not rate Harakiri as highly as some, I did like it. 4

Citizen Rules

08-08-21, 03:02 PM

Takoma11

08-08-21, 04:10 PM

Why is Charlton Heston as a Mexican national a stretch? He could be an Irish descendant and still be a Mexican citizen. Not to mention there's lot of Spanish descendants in Mexico who aren't mixed with native indigenous peoples.

Setting aside the discussion about the appropriateness "brownface", there are times that a character (even when played by a race-switched actor) feels "real".

Something about Heston's character never felt quite right to me. (Though I do really love the film and I've seen it on the big screen twice). This is obviously subjective to each viewer, but it's one of those performances that has the energy of "I'm playing someone!" rather than just inhabiting the character.

It's also the case that Heston was cast in the lead when the main character was a man named Mitch Holt. After Heston was cast, Welles rewrote the script, including turning American lead Mitch Holt into Mexican lead Miguel Vargas.

edarsenal

08-09-21, 06:42 PM

Takoma expresses it rather well. It's just off for me. Great film, seen it a few times and like Takoma remarked, "it's one of those performances that has the energy of "I'm playing someone!" rather than just inhabiting the character.". I can't express specifics, but it does not quite click for me. I don't see an actor portraying a role as I could easily see Heston in other roles, here, for me, it just feels like Heston being Heston with brown makeup.
Again, great film and everyone does great.

rauldc14

08-09-21, 07:02 PM

True Romance

https://cdn.onebauer.media/one/media/5d4a/d5f7/e091/dbf8/ae8a/fbf5/true-romance-1.jpg

This truly felt like Tony Scott meets Quentin Tarantino. Unfortunately one I like and one I don't....and that's kind of the way the film flowed for me. I liked a lot of the action sequences, minus the Tarantinoesque violence scenes. The story didn't feel too intriguing and I wasn't a big fan of Slater in this. The score seemed a bit out there, kind of what people think about Scott's Man on Fire score even though I love it. Not all is bad here though- I liked Arquettes performance and the dialogue was mostly engaging to me. Somewhere around a middle of the road Scott for me though with the Tarantino touches being what brings it down for me unfortunately.

3

cricket

08-09-21, 08:03 PM

Sophie's Choice (1982)

https://seeingthingssecondhand.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/screenshot-1012.png

Meryl Streep is obviously the big draw here, and over the years I've often heard this called her greatest performance. Although I think she's a great actress, I've never thought of myself as a big fan. I'm just not drawn to many of her movies, and I don't think my parents helped any when they dragged me to see The French Lieutenant's Woman when I was 10. This came out a year later, and I remember thinking omg Meryl Streep why would I want to see that. Almost 40 years later I am now more open to her. I wasn't sure how great she was in this at first. Sometimes when an actor shows range, which is what I should want, I can't help but see it as a performance. What tipped the scales for me in this movie is that she expands on that by essentially playing two roles, one in the present and one in flashback.

I thought Kevin Kline and Peter MacNicol were also great, great enough that it made me think any of the three could be the lead character. This is a great strength for the movie, yet sometimes it almost felt like a weakness, as if their roles were not properly defined. It's probably just me.

It's a great story, but just like the performances, I had a weird feeling. It felt like two movies, the one in the present and the flashback. I like when films use this structure so I'm not even sure why this entered my little brain. For whatever reason, despite the title, it never occurred to me that the movie featured a "choice". When that scene did come it was powerful and horrific. The entire film is littered with sadness and I had plenty to think about. I was never bored during the 150 minute runtime and it's visually appropriate. No doubt a terrific movie. I'm surprised my rating is not higher but it feels right.

3.5+

cricket

08-09-21, 08:03 PM

cricket

08-09-21, 08:08 PM

Congratulations Allaby, you are the 3rd member to finish!

Allaby

08-09-21, 08:17 PM

Congratulations Allaby, you are the 3rd member to finish!

:popcorn: Hooray! Do I get a bronze medal? or at least a shiny sticker? :)

cricket

08-09-21, 08:19 PM

:popcorn: Hooray! Do I get a bronze medal? or at least a shiny sticker? :)

In my HoFs there is only 1 winner. The rest of us are all losers.

cricket

08-11-21, 09:44 AM

edarsenal

08-11-21, 03:31 PM

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTMyNDExNTU1NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMTkzNDU3NQ@@._V1_.jpg
https://pbharat.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/mr-51.gif

Mr. Smith Goes to Washington (1939)

Jefferson Smith: I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness and a little looking out for the other fella, too.

Loosely based on the early career of US Senator Burton K. Wheeler, who was falsely indicted when, as a freshman senator in the 1920s, he fought corruption in the presidential administration of Warren G. Harding, this film garnered six awards: Best Movie, Director, Story. Leading Actor and two Supporting Actors with Claude Raines and, playing the President of the Senate, Harry Carey. Not surprisingly, Director Frank Capra had a similar "slamming" by, initially, Government Officials and the Press for how they were portrayed. Go figure.

With a rigged dam to go up in an (unnamed) state out west, the local Senator croaks, and the machinations of the leading graft, Jim Taylor (Edward Arnold) needs a willing stooge to fill in so they can move fast before anyone starts sniffing around the proposed Bill.
What he gets is Jimmy Stewart in all his kind-heartedness and stoic, honest beliefs as Jefferson Smith. Assisted, reluctantly at first, by his assistant, Saunders, wonderfully done by Jean Arthur, Capra creates his usual magic and down-home, grounded philosophy that sticking to our guns in the face of bullies and corruption on their home turf is important. For all of us.

Along with a strong leading cast, this, like many Capra films, has a solid list of secondary performers, quite a number of which can be seen in a number of other Capra films, adding levels of pleasure and enjoyment to this David and Goliath indictment to the "games" being played. Sadly, they never stopped and even sadder, have only grown in strength and number, as well as, it seems, support to do as they f@ckin please while we play with our phones, distracted and unwilling to put forth an effort beyond typing a post in social media.

Sorry about that. An inspirational film such as this will cause a rant or two.
Let's skip the politics and the mirror held up at the time that has become so utterly tarnished and painted over; god only knows how continually worse it has all gotten. Or, maybe, it truly is business as usual and always will be.

F@ck did it again.

Why it has taken me most of my life to watch another of a Director whose love of the nonsensical and the goodness that we should all try a little harder to at least appreciate if not attempt; was my own cynical concern that it would be too naive for me to enjoy as much as I ended up doing. Mimicking Jean Arthur's Saunder's jaded reluctance and her character's turn around, I was also pretty jubilant by the end scene.

So, as is my wont, THANK YOU to whoever nominated this for me!

cricket

08-11-21, 08:58 PM

I liked Mr Smith more as a kid than I do now, but now I like Mrs Smith more than I did as a kid. Go figure.

cricket

08-11-21, 09:01 PM

I'm offended... :p

Don't forget, there's a due date this time!

Thief

08-11-21, 09:01 PM

I haven't seen it in a while, but I remember liking Mr. Smith quite a bit.

SpelingError

08-11-21, 09:05 PM

I also love Mr. Smith. So far, everything I've seen from Capra is excellent.

rauldc14

08-11-21, 09:19 PM

I watched Hurt Locker today. I'll try to write something up in the morning.

edarsenal

08-11-21, 10:42 PM

haven't seen Sophie's Choice and haven't heard of Monsieur Hire but being a Quentin fanboy I've always got a kick out of True Romance since first seeing it at the movie theaters.

neiba

08-12-21, 04:12 AM

Don't forget, there's a due date this time!

Under control :)

Citizen Rules

08-12-21, 11:13 PM

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=80195

Zodiac (David Fincher 2007)

For me, watching innocent victims being tied up and stabbed to death isgratuitous violence. And yes this was the film I had said I was dubious about.

Even without the disturbing killings, this was a poorly directed movie. Both Jake Gyllenhaal and Robert Downey Jr. blew in this. Downey was the same off the wall, nutsy druggie/drunk character that he's played in so many other films. He's like a caricature, good in a comedy-drama but silly in such a serious film.

Gyllenhaal is just a boring actor. I've never really liked him. He had no handle on how to be the odd, cartoonist guy. I was painful aware of his attempts at doing a 'character' and he failed. It was only towards the end of the film when he became obsessed with finding the identity of the Zodiac that his performance rang true.

Mark Ruffalo and his cop partner were any good in this and I did like whoever played Melvin Belli too.

The story itself was lagging, did this really need to be 2 hours and 45 minutes? Zodiac has the same lack luster quality as another disappointing news investigative movie, The Post (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6294822/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_12).

A really good investigative, true crime movie was Spotlight (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1895587/)...about child abuse by pedophile Catholic priest...and that film didn't need to show children being horribly abused for shock value. BTW I didn't care for The Social Network and I don't like David Fincher style of direction.

Takoma11

08-13-21, 12:04 AM

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy Zodiac (not my nomination for you, but a film I hold in generally high regard).

I thought that the combination of true-story narration and some genuine suspense and dread (especially that basement sequence) made for compelling viewing.

I think that this film is after something different than Spotlight. In Zodiac there's the "drier" investigative/journalism stuff and then the disturbing murder stuff. But as the film goes on, those two elements begin to blur and intersect. The mystery doesn't just impact the characters---it consumes big parts of their lives for years and years.

Thief

08-13-21, 12:22 AM

Takoma11

08-13-21, 12:55 AM

It wasn't my nomination either, but to be honest, I could've considered it, even after reading your disclaimer. For some reason, it doesn't strike me as the kind of film one would chalk up to "gratuitous violence" (even though I acknowledge how freaking disturbing that lake scene is). It's a fine line for sure, so I'm not questioning your reaction to it, but rather how we all perceive things differently and that I'm sure there was no ill intent in whoever nominated it.

Agreed.

I think that CR perhaps takes gratuitous violence to mean extreme or graphic violence, while for others the term might mean violence that is unnecessary or thrown in just to titillate. While Zodiac's violence is upsetting, it feels appropriate to the story, so I could see how someone might have thought it would be okay.

Citizen Rules

08-13-21, 03:16 AM

Agreed.

I think that CR perhaps takes gratuitous violence to mean extreme or graphic violence, while for others the term might mean violence that is unnecessary or thrown in just to titillate. While Zodiac's violence is upsetting, it feels appropriate to the story, so I could see how someone might have thought it would be okay.I think that many MoFos are so desensitized to violence by the movies that they watch, that they don't view brutal killings as shown in Zodiac as much of a big deal. But I don't watch slasher horror films, etc.

As an aside, I don't think showing the killings are necessary or even helpful to the movie's story. The stories focus is that the Zodiac is a conundrum, a puzzling mystery to all. By showing the audience the actual crimes it takes away from the feeling of being in the cops shoes and feeling completely baffled by the mystery, as it makes us privy to what actual happened.

Citizen Rules

08-13-21, 03:21 AM

It wasn't my nomination either, but to be honest, I could've considered it, even after reading your disclaimer. For some reason, it doesn't strike me as the kind of film one would chalk up to "gratuitous violence" (even though I acknowledge how freaking disturbing that lake scene is). It's a fine line for sure, so I'm not questioning your reaction to it, but rather how we all perceive things differently and that I'm sure there was no ill intent in whoever nominated it.I don't think there was any ill intent either. Not at all.

As another aside, maybe "gratuitous violence" wasn't the best term to describe what I was thinking. I meant to say that I don't want to watch freaking disturbing scenes like the couple at the lake.

cricket

08-13-21, 11:06 AM

Congratulations Citizen Rules, you are the 4th member to finish!

Takoma11

08-13-21, 11:19 AM

I think that many MoFos are so desensitized to violence by the movies that they watch, that they don't view brutal killings as shown in Zodiac as much of a big deal. But I don't watch slasher horror films, etc.

As an aside, I don't think showing the killings are necessary or even helpful to the movie's story. The stories focus is that the Zodiac is a conundrum, a puzzling mystery to all. By showing the audience the actual crimes it takes away from the feeling of being in the cops shoes and feeling completely baffled by the mystery, as it makes us privy to what actual happened.

I would actually disagree with this. I think that not showing the killings dehumanizes the whole situation and turns the Zodiac into a fun little puzzle.

Don't get me wrong--I have read and watched many "bloodless" mysteries where characters are killed with a bonk on the head or fall over from poison and the whole point is not the killings, but the detective cleverly figuring things out.

Showing the actual crimes helps us understand the killer as something terrifying and brutal. It increases the urgency of trying to catch him, compounds the tragedy of him eluding capture, and makes the victims real people instead of abstractions.

That said, I can easily see how someone might feel that the level of violence was high enough to make the film unenjoyable. But I think that the violence is necessary for the atmosphere of dread and the deeply personal nature of the story. If anything, I feel as if it puts you more in the shows of the investigators---aware of the brutality, but lacking "the answer" to the whole thing.

Citizen Rules

08-13-21, 12:13 PM

I would actually disagree with this. I think that not showing the killings dehumanizes the whole situation and turns the Zodiac into a fun little puzzle.

Don't get me wrong--I have read and watched many "bloodless" mysteries where characters are killed with a bonk on the head or fall over from poison and the whole point is not the killings, but the detective cleverly figuring things out.

Showing the actual crimes helps us understand the killer as something terrifying and brutal. It increases the urgency of trying to catch him, compounds the tragedy of him eluding capture, and makes the victims real people instead of abstractions.

That said, I can easily see how someone might feel that the level of violence was high enough to make the film unenjoyable. But I think that the violence is necessary for the atmosphere of dread and the deeply personal nature of the story. If anything, I feel as if it puts you more in the shows of the investigators---aware of the brutality, but lacking "the answer" to the whole thing.I disagree, but then again disagreement is the nature of the internet🙂

Spotlight worked wonderfully without seeing scenes of an old creepy priest molesting a frightened, screaming kid. But even without the Zodiac killing scenes it was a rather uneven and uninspired movie. I did laugh once however. It was when Jake Gyllenhaal goes to interview the former guy worker of the Zodiac, who had once worked with him in an old film theater. Jake goes down into the guy's basement, gets frightened thinking that this guy is the real Zodiac and then runs out of the house only to find a locked door. OMG! The entire scene has a schumcky horror feel to it.

Citizen Rules

08-13-21, 12:14 PM

Congratulations Citizen Rules, you are the 4th member to finish!Ah, that reminds me to send my list in.

Citizen Rules

08-13-21, 12:25 PM

Ah, that reminds me to send my list in.Second thought...I'd better go read my movie write-ups to see how to order my voting list.

Takoma11

08-13-21, 01:05 PM

Spotlight [/I][/B]worked wonderfully without seeing scenes of an old creepy priest molesting a frightened, screaming kid.

Agreed (sort of, I was kind of lukewarm on Spotlight), but I think that the films have different goals. The real horror of Spotlight, in my opinion, isn't the molestation, but rather the intentional, malicious conspiracy and cover-up engaged in by the church. The intensity derives from the team uncovering the many layers and coming to understand the depth and scope of the cover-up.

I'm not saying that there's a right or a wrong way to approach what is essentially a story of investigation, but I think that leaving the murders off-screen would lend to a ton of focus on the codes and letters, and it displaces the victims and the sense of dread. Zodiac is also more interested in the way that different characters are consumed by the case, and the toll that obsession takes on them.

But even without the Zodiac killing scenes it was a rather uneven and uninspired movie. I did laugh once however. It was when Jake Gyllenhaal goes to interview the former guy worker of the Zodiac, who had once worked with him in an old film theater. Jake goes down into the guy's basement, gets frightened thinking that this guy is the real Zodiac and then runs out of the house only to find a locked door. OMG! The entire scene has a schumcky horror feel to it.

I think that part of the effectiveness of the film is how it shows the characters essentially imposing themselves into a horror story. But if you aren't vibing with the sense of dread, yeah, I can see not digging it.

Citizen Rules

08-13-21, 01:59 PM

...But if you aren't vibing with the sense of dread, yeah, I can see not digging it.That's a perfect description of what kind of films I don't like. I.E. films that have a heightened sense of dread producing anxiety, like home invasion films. I will not watch home invasion films I don't want to feel anxious for two hours.

Thief

08-13-21, 02:11 PM

I disagree, but then again disagreement is the nature of the internet🙂

Spotlight worked wonderfully without seeing scenes of an old creepy priest molesting a frightened, screaming kid. But even without the Zodiac killing scenes it was a rather uneven and uninspired movie. I did laugh once however. It was when Jake Gyllenhaal goes to interview the former guy worker of the Zodiac, who had once worked with him in an old film theater. Jake goes down into the guy's basement, gets frightened thinking that this guy is the real Zodiac and then runs out of the house only to find a locked door. OMG! The entire scene has a schumcky horror feel to it.

To go back to what I said a while ago about how different we all perceive things, that basement scene is commonly regarded as one of the most tense scenes on the film. So it's interesting to see how differently you perceived it.

And on that same line, even though I acknowledge Spotlight was a good film, overall I didn't care much for it.

Citizen Rules

08-13-21, 02:24 PM

To go back to what I said a while ago about how different we all perceive things, that basement scene is commonly regarded as one of the most tense scenes on the film. So it's interesting to see how differently you perceived it.

And on that same line, even though I acknowledge Spotlight was a good film, overall I didn't care much for it.Here's a link to my MoFo review of Spotlight.
https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1556634#post1556634

edarsenal

08-13-21, 02:54 PM

Can completely feel for CR's preference to avoiding such films. I've seen some pretty incredible films here and, on occasion, through other channels, that I could have gone without but still remain thankful for seeing them. I can easily do without them, having rediscovered my love for life-affirming, happy endings from childhood instead of the more grisly, horrific human nature with cruel endings that I pursued in my young adult days.

I do admit a love for stylized violence in revenge and action films,(I don't see that changing) but, yeah, like CR, I avoid Slasher/Torture Horror and I can't abide any film with rape.
There are some films, a large percentage, from South Korea that are pretty intense but I still continue to watch them. It's a very small number compared to, from around the world that I just cringe having to experience. I think, for the few, I have both respect and willingness to revisit has to do with the poetic symmetry of Asian films. Not to claim that it is a solitary claim when it comes to the poetic in countless others throughout the world. For some reason, in Asian films, it resonates a little more for me, and thereby my appreciation dips a little higher than my cinematic respect.

I saw Zodiac about a month or two ago and, like Takoma11 stated, showing the crime WAS a necessity in demonstrating the brutality and resulting fear that spread because of it. And thereby, why the pursuit of the eluding killer became such a lifelong pursuit for them.
I have a love and fascination for a variety of Detective films and TV Crime Series. So I did enjoy the investigative aspect, especially being a "True Crime". It didn't stick with me nor would I revisit it on my own accord but it was a worthwhile, interesting film. I'd probably rate it about 3.5 overall. The investigation aspect being the strongest advocate.

Thief

08-13-21, 02:56 PM

Here's a link to my MoFo review of Spotlight.
https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1556634#post1556634

We're not that far off, although I would probably give it a 3.5

mavakaga

08-13-21, 03:00 PM

i'm assuming i am too late to the party. When does the next one begin?

Citizen Rules

08-13-21, 03:08 PM

i'm assuming i am too late to the party. When does the next one begin?Yeah, you're way too late! It's half over with. But we will be doing other movie watching activities like this real soon...so stick around!:)

Citizen Rules

08-13-21, 03:09 PM

We're not that far off, although I would probably give it a 3.5I might have gave Zodiac a 3.0 or a 3.5 without the brutal killing scenes. For me the best part was learning what happened over the years with the investigation. Before watching the movie I had thought that the Zodiac killer was captured in the early 1970s, boy I was wrong!

Just for fun here's a link to my review of that other investigative film that I talked about The Post. (I gave it a 3.0)
https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1899584#post1899584

Thief

08-13-21, 03:16 PM

I might have gave Zodiac a 3.0 or a 3.5 without the brutal killing scenes. For me the best part was learning what happened over the years with the investigation. Before watching the movie I had thought that the Zodiac killer was captured in the early 1970s, boy I was wrong!

Just for fun here's a link to my review of that other investigative film that I talked about The Post. (I gave it a 3.0)
https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1899584#post1899584

Oooof, I... didn't like The Post. At all. I'll link a review later. Gotta have lunch.

edarsenal

08-13-21, 03:38 PM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-603Vq0iPaSM/USOL5AVvbvI/AAAAAAAAHQc/w0Z21IlJhaI/s1600/captains-courageous-4.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6b/be/1e/6bbe1e31c86758557c5ecfa1c3e0cd79.jpg

Captains Courageous (1937)

Harvey: I bet I know a lot of things you don't know. I know that's not French you're singing.
Manuel Fidello: That's right. About ten million people know it Portuguese.
Harvey: I bet you can't speak French.
Manuel Fidello: Right now, I sorry I speak English.

It's a very pleasant sensation when a film that you initially balk at brings you into its warm embrace.
That was, in a nutshell, my experience watching Rudyard Kipling's story Captains Courageous put to film by director Victor Fleming. The opening introduction into the spoiled, manipulative, privileged sh#t (that I utterly detest) little Harvey. Whom, from my limited understanding, having never read the story itself, is actually nineteen. Still, the studio changed the character's age to ten to accommodate having Freddie Bartholomew play the role. Which, with his character's arc, was a pretty d@mn good decision.
The second balking occurred with Spencer Tracy's unrecognizable accent. Even when discovering that his character Manuel was Portuguese, I kept thinking: Really? Really??
But, godd@mmit, and I don't know exactly where, it could have been the dialogue he had, or just Tracy doing a superb job, but, much like Harvey does, it was pretty hard NOT to fall in love with the guy.

Add to that a great backup list of characters; Lionel Barrymore as the epitome of the crusty sea-faring captain with a good heart beneath his barnacle hide, his son, Dan (Mickey Rooney), along with John Caradine playing the gruff antagonist 'Long Jack' to, what I was worried would be a condoning father but instead was a more compassionate, understanding one when it came to the necessary discipline of Harvey's teachers by Melvyn Douglas. Along with so many others. Bringing to life the characters of this, for good reason, excellent Kipling story.

Even though most of it was filmed in a studio sound stage, and I must rate them highly since it felt like being on a schooner instead of being staged. I also need to cheer the outside shots on the schooner. They were incredibly exciting and a little scary, with the waves thrashing about. The dropping of the dories in the water seemed pretty f@ckin dangerous all on their own, along with the "race" back to Gloucester as the boat tipped to the side. Very impressive, I must say.

Oh, also, I have an exceptional thank you for finally discovering and seeing what exactly a hurdy-gurdy is. Which Manuel plays when he sings, featured in the second image.

So, like so many surprises in past Personal Rec HoFs, this has been another addition to that endeared list.
YAYYYYY

Thief

08-13-21, 03:45 PM

Just for fun here's a link to my review of that other investigative film that I talked about The Post. (I gave it a 3.0)
https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1899584#post1899584

Here it is (https://letterboxd.com/thief12/film/the-post-2017/)... :shifty:

Citizen Rules

08-13-21, 03:46 PM

Here it is (https://letterboxd.com/thief12/film/the-post-2017/)... :shifty:I'll read it now...I'm not a fan of The Post either, so no worries:p

Citizen Rules

08-13-21, 03:50 PM

Here it is (https://letterboxd.com/thief12/film/the-post-2017/)... :shifty:I concur with your review of The Post. Especially these passages:
The Post feels like Spielberg in auto-pilot. The film is so inert and lifeless, with little to no bite to it, that I couldn't help roll my eyes at some points near the end as forced monologues rolled by, and supposedly rousing speeches were said.

Hanks and Streep do their best, with the latter probably getting the better part. But Hanks? As much as I like him, he was just Hanks playing a character. I never saw him owning the role.Yup felt the same, I think I kinda hit on some of those points too.

This has made me wonder, when was the last time that Spielberg really did a great picture?Answer: Bridge of Spies, totally my cup of tea and worked for me.

Thief

08-13-21, 03:54 PM

I concur with your review of The Post. Especially these passages:
Yup felt the same, I think I kinda hit on some of those points too.

Answer: Bridge of Spies, totally my cup of tea and worked for me.

That's one I haven't seen, but I've heard mostly good things about it.

cricket

08-13-21, 04:53 PM

I watched Captain Courageous for the 30's countdown and it was a nice surprise.

cricket

08-13-21, 04:56 PM

I don't think there was any ill intent either. Not at all.

As another aside, maybe "gratuitous violence" wasn't the best term to describe what I was thinking. I meant to say that I don't want to watch freaking disturbing scenes like the couple at the lake.

I watch the sickest of the sick but that's one of the most disturbing scenes I've seen.

Citizen Rules

08-13-21, 05:16 PM

I watch the sickest of the sick but that's one of the most disturbing scenes I've seen.I'm glad you said that, now I don't feel so bad:p...I can watch cheesy stuff like Piranha (1978) (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078087/) or even The Shallows (2016) (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4052882/), that doesn't bother me, but that Zodiac scene was tough.

seanc

08-13-21, 06:33 PM

I'm glad you said that, now I don't feel so bad:p...I can watch cheesy stuff like Piranha (1978) (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078087/) or even The Shallows (2016) (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4052882/), that doesn't bother me, but that Zodiac scene was tough.

That’s the point, it’s supposed to be tough

Siddon

08-13-21, 07:20 PM

:rolleyes:

Yes Zodiac is gratuitously violent, poorly directed and Jake Gyllenhaal gives a terrible performance....Normally I try not to respond to reviews but when they are so far off base I feel like it's important to justify my selection of Zodiac...a masterpiece.

Zodiac is a masterpiece, part of the Fincher serial killer trilogy (Seven, Zodiac, Mindhunter). Zodiac tells the real story of The Zodiac killer, a serial killer who taunts the police, newspapers, and citizens of San Francisco in the 1970's. As we all know the killer is never caught so the story is just about the killings right...WRONG.

https://i.gifer.com/6KBe.gif

https://i.gifer.com/2FLD.gif

The "lead" character of the story is Robert Graysmith, an individual who is only tangentially tied to the story yet becomes obsessed with it. It's a central theme of the film the role obsession and the effect of failure. Robert Avery is the first lead in the film, the man singled out by Zodiac and the first to leave the case. The film works as sort of a virus where the characters start at point A
https://am23.mediaite.com/tms/cnt/uploads/2020/03/tumblr_m6977in94z1qajc4eo2_500.gif

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wlB5F8xsNwY/RevlM9wxdHI/AAAAAAAAAfM/fFxhWdsG73Q/s400/Z-Downey2.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4OgldRzYvD4/maxresdefault.jpg

And then slowly become unhinged and incapable of dealing with the consequences of not getting answers to this case.

And I mean who could care about the shot composition

https://s.studiobinder.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/David-Fincher-Directing-Style-Wide-Shot-Example-Zodiac.jpg.webp?resolution=2294,1

https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/005/541/455/large/vinicius-paciello-zodiac-rgb-4k.jpg?1533070197&dl=1

https://filmschoolrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/zodiac-beginning.jpg

The shots are beautifully framed...each murder scene is rendered with incredible establishing shot. These people are not getting away and the director makes it very clear why this is happening. So feel the isolation before the attack occurs.

But Fincher doesn't just go for cheap thrills, tension is a major aspect of the film. In one of the best scenes we get the story of Kathleen John's in which the scene starts off with tension and builds and builds and builds. Yet the scene is practically devoid of violence...it's atmosphere, the setting of the scene that creates the horror.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDhJ-xXsbHc

Zodiac is also special for it's meticulous work. This is a fully realized period piece in which you see the entirety of the area. The cars, homes, and people all feel like they were of this time. If the camera moves to another street you feel like it would be of the same time. Fincher mixes CGI/Digital/Classic film making in the story. Sadly this artform is rarely used directors nowadays tend to stick with a singular style but Fincher uses all three and all three well.

The final thing that makes this film great is the casting. Normally films have your basic 4-6 characters. This one has close to thirty characters, each fully realized and well established. They don't feel like cameo's but rather real people who existed..because they really were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn0itU2N-ZE

In one scene you see everyone's jobs (secretary, editor, publisher, writers) everything is established and the events are talked about. Gender, class, age are all accurate for the time period. And frankly if the film makes you feel uncomfortable..that's the point. And isn't the goal of art to show us our humanity all parts about it. The point of the film is to show the effects of obsession over violence to make you feel for the victims, if you were horrified that's the point.

Takoma11

08-13-21, 07:36 PM

And frankly if the film makes you feel uncomfortable..that's the point. And isn't the goal of art to show us our humanity all parts about it. The point of the film is to show the effects of obsession over violence to make you feel for the victims, if you were horrified that's the point.

I agree with pretty much everything that you wrote about what makes the film successful.

But I do think that everyone has a right as a viewer to draw a line between themselves and certain topics or portrayals.

I've watched certain films--films that made me uncomfortable and horrified me--and the result of watching them was that I was seriously depressed and upset for days or even weeks afterward. The friction between me and the film wasn't a productive friction. It just made me feel bad.

I argued above in other posts that I don't think that the film's use of violence is gratuitous. I think that the violence serves a purpose and that the sequences of violence are filmed artistically and with empathy for the victims. But it's anyone's right to say that the content of a film pushed them out of their comfort zone in a way that made it impossible for them to enjoy it.

(I also honestly think that when a film evokes those strongly negative emotions, it's harder to notice the artistry of it.)

Citizen Rules

08-13-21, 07:46 PM

Zodiac...Normally I try not to respond to reviews but when they are so far off base I feel like it's important to justify my selection of Zodiac...a masterpiece. You should feel free to respond to the member's reviews. Interaction, that's part of this, we need more discussion not just movie 'book reports', we all should talk. And it's OK to disagree with me too, seriously it's not like I made the film (which makes no sense but you get the drift).

As we all know the killer is never caught so the story is just about the killings right...WRONG.I don't know if you're implying that I said the film is all about the killings, it's not, that's just the part of the film I didn't like, hence I focused on it as well as other aspects.

The shots are beautifully framed...each murder scene is rendered with incredible establishing shot. These people are not getting away and the director makes it very clear why this is happening. So feel the isolation before the attack occurs.The same beautifully framed shots could've been done from the police's POV. We could've seen in the distance by the lake, a lone car with it's doors wide open. As the squad car gets closer we see bodies, then as the police approach the scene we see the male still moving and female dead. That would've been more effective as it puts us in the same mind as the cops investigating the scene and would've still been plenty tense.

Jake Gyllenhaal gives a terrible performance We agree there;)

cricket

08-13-21, 07:57 PM

Surprisingly I wasn't a fan the only time I watched Zodiac, although I suspect that I had a bad day. It's one of the number one movies I need to see a 2nd time.

Siddon

08-13-21, 07:57 PM

The same beautifully framed shots could've been done from the police's POV. We could've seen in the distance by the lake, a lone car with it's doors wide open. As the squad car gets closer we see bodies, then as the police approach the scene we see the male still moving and female dead. That would've been more effective as it puts us in the same mind as the cops investigating the scene and would've still been plenty tense.

So you wanted him to redo Se7en? Fincher could have done the exact same thing but he chose to do something different. Although for someone who doesn't care for gratuitous violence you might not care for that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLyuSCcnlXg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDrl03xGWQk

The difference between the two films is that Se7en is the story of the police officers hunting a fictional serial killer. Zodiac is the story of how a real serial killer terrified a community and the effect it had on the individuals around him.

Thursday Next

08-14-21, 01:24 PM

The River (1951)

I had not heard of this film, although I have liked everything else I have seen so far from Renoir.

This was an interesting mix of melodrama and coming of age tale with a philosophical take on life, death, birth and the cyclical nature of things, interspersed with little bits of information about Indian culture and festivals. It is the story of three girls living in India by the river, two of them English and the third of mixed English and Indian heritage. The story is narrated by an older Harriet, looking back at herself as a 13 year old.

I thought there was a little too much narration, to be honest. It made me feel like I should be reading the book instead. When there is too much narration it is almost like the film isn't trusted to tell the story in its own terms without explaining everything. The film looks good, if a little static, the colours are wonderful. The acting is pretty woeful at times though.

I think it would be easy to dismiss from a modern perspective that this is an outsider's perspective on India - and indeed at times it does get a bit 'travelogue'-ish. But I think it has to be seen within the context of its time and it is mostly respectful and considered in its handling of the setting, while the focus is on the English and American characters. I feel like there are a few themes and relationships that don't get explored as fully as they could do, but it was mostly interesting to watch.

Glad to have seen this, I think the 50s are still a bit of a blind spot for me. I definitely think it is worth watching.

cricket

08-14-21, 08:42 PM

I don't believe I cared for The River but I really can't recall.

Takoma11

08-14-21, 09:28 PM

I think that The River (which I have watched twice) does a great job of evoking the feeling of a memory of childhood. It very much feels like memory as opposed to a flashback, if that distinction makes any sense.

Citizen Rules

08-14-21, 11:22 PM

....I've watched certain films--films that made me uncomfortable and horrified me--and the result of watching them was that I was seriously depressed and upset for days or even weeks afterward... That has never happened to me, movies just don't effect me like that.

The lake side killing scene in Zodiac was very uncomfortable to watch but 5 minutes after it was over I didn't feel any type of anxiety or anything like that. I just want to be clear in that I'm not saying I was traumatized or anything by the movie.

Takoma11

08-14-21, 11:30 PM

That has never happened to me, movies just don't effect me like that.

The lake side killing scene in Zodiac was very uncomfortable to watch but 5 minutes after it was over I didn't feel any type of anxiety or anything like that. I just want to be clear in that I'm not saying I was traumatized or anything by the movie.

No, that's not what I meant. Just that certain content goes to a place that we aren't engaging with them in a positive way. (Though I'm glad you are able to shake off upsetting content).

Citizen Rules

08-14-21, 11:36 PM

No, that's not what I meant. Just that certain content goes to a place that we aren't engaging with them in a positive way. (Though I'm glad you are able to shake off upsetting content).I'm not sure if I follow you? Or maybe you misunderstood me? So what 'didn't you mean'?

Takoma11

08-14-21, 11:40 PM

I'm not sure if I follow you? Or maybe you misunderstood me? So what 'didn't you mean'?

I didn't mean in my original post that I thought you were traumatized by the film.

I gave my example of how I sometimes have a negative reaction to certain content/violence (and I do tend to dwell on upsetting content after viewing) as an example just to illustrate that I think it's valid to have a negative response to a film because of such content.

Citizen Rules

08-14-21, 11:52 PM

I didn't mean in my original post that I thought you were traumatized by the film.

I gave my example of how I sometimes have a negative reaction to certain content/violence (and I do tend to dwell on upsetting content after viewing) as an example just to illustrate that I think it's valid to have a negative response to a film because of such content.It's cool:) I didn't think that you were suggesting that I was traumatized by Zodiac. But I did want to put it out there that I wasn't traumatized just in case I sounded like I was saying that in an earlier post.

Zodiac did inspire me to watch Dirty Harry last night. Dirty Harry was mentioned in Zodiac and was clearly the first movie about the Zodiac killer. I've seen it before and it's OK, mostly Clint Eastwood and Andrew Robinson make the movie memorable. I might even watch the other Eastwood/Dirty Harry franchise movies...but I'm not a big fan of action-crime-thrillers.

edarsenal

08-16-21, 02:13 PM

Halfway through The Right Stuff.
Before the reveal, cricket had let me know that one of the noms went over the time restraint for me but was definitely worth it. So, before learning what it was, I agreed to go with it, having full confidence in cricket's belief.

Because it is, it really is.
It is also a film, unlike so many that I truly wish I had seen a long time ago; this is of a rare breed that I find is a more fitting place at this time in my life than previously, insofar as to appreciating their personas and relationships as an old fart as opposed to a young pup when this first came out in '83 when I was 19. So, timewise, this is an excellent first time for this specific film. Adding to the YAY of it all.

Yoda

08-16-21, 06:11 PM

But I do think that everyone has a right as a viewer to draw a line between themselves and certain topics or portrayals.
Agreed. And more to the point, descriptions of its technical or artistic brilliance are non-sequiturs in the face of this kind of response.

Takoma11

08-16-21, 06:36 PM

Agreed. And more to the point, descriptions of its technical or artistic brilliance are non-sequiturs in the face of this kind of response.

True, which can be frustrating, because I've definitely been in the position of someone giving a film a 1/10 or something for grounds that have nothing to do with the artistry or technicality of the film.

I think it's one of those things that really puts you at an impasse in terms of discussion, because you can't really argue with "It was too much for me."

rauldc14

08-17-21, 10:56 AM

If anyone has a decent link to Godfather 2 let me know

SpelingError

08-17-21, 12:30 PM

If anyone has a decent link to Godfather 2 let me know

I sent you a link.

edarsenal

08-18-21, 04:06 PM

https://64.media.tumblr.com/7fb38bab92e33261bf71dedc79aa133f/tumblr_olyt6kftfm1sqf5tdo3_400.gifv
http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lofbenyhWO1qfexrno1_500.gif

The Right Stuff (1983)

Alan Shepard: Dear Lord, please don't let me f@ck up.
Gordon Cooper: [Smiling] I didn't quite copy that. Say again, please.
Alan Shepard: I said everything's A-OK.

Featuring the beginning years of the Space Program in the early sixties, including what is considering the opening of such possibilities by Test Pilot Chuck Yeager's (Sam Shepard) Breaking of the Sound Barrier.
At 3hr 13min, this was a very extensive, detailed learning experience of those early days and the men who participated both on the ground and in space.
What I really loved about this, beyond getting to know those men who, as a kid, were legends with only names and accomplishments and never of who they were as people, but seeing and discovering what occurred doing those early years and, of course, the unknown hero, Chuck Yeager who wasn't even acknowledged for Breaking the Sound Barrier til much, much later.

Along with Shepard are Barbara Hershey, Scott Glen, Ed Harris, Dennis Quaid, and many others, doing a splendid job displaying the everyday side of these extraordinary individuals. There is levity interspersed within some very tense and hazardous scenarios, and director Philip Kaufman displays all of it. Without the film ever dragging. Though I had to split watching due to my own time restraints, it was still an effortless and enjoyable watch. Not astounding or mesmerizing, but very engaging and, as I remarked previously, I do believe an ideal time in my life to appreciate the men, their relationships with one another, and their wives on a far more comprehensive level than if I had seen this in my late teens, early twenties.

As remarked several times in this film, "F@ckin' A Bubba,"

cricket

08-18-21, 07:16 PM

Way to go Ed!!

edarsenal

08-18-21, 08:46 PM

THANKS!

rauldc14

08-18-21, 09:20 PM

The Godfather 2

https://static.rogerebert.com/uploads/blog_post/primary_image/far-flung-correspondents/why-the-godfather-part-ii-is-the-best-of-the-trilogy/the-godfather-part-ii-1200-1200-675-675-crop-000000.jpg

I think the fact it took me so damn long to see this, especially after seeing The Godfather three separate times, may have potentially hurt how I felt about the film overall. It's supposed to be one of the greatest of all time. And I can't argue with anybody feeling that way. For me, I feel it's a good but not great film and I still prefer number one, although a lot of that could be due to the fact that I enjoyed the hell out of Brando's performance. I really didn't get much out of De Niros performance here to be honest, it felt a bit wooden and I'd say pretty overrated. Pacino was real good though, and all the others did quite well too I'd say. The story was pretty interesting to follow, there were a couple lulls but nothing too bad. I felt the length a bit in parts but not too extreme. The end was really well done and I also thought the beginning was pretty interesting. I'll for sure see it again because I feel there was a lot of context I may have missed. Good film. Feel like I'm underrating but that's because I feel like the expectations were skyrocket high, and I honestly don't see it as high as the rest of the movie world, not trying to knock it down or anything.

3.5+

Siddon

08-18-21, 10:34 PM

To me a film like The Godfather gets better each time you watch it because it's so dense. I don't know if you have access to AMC but they tend to run the Godfather in 7 hour chronological order every once and a while and that's a good second way to watch it with II playing the role of the bookends of the series.

cricket

08-19-21, 08:43 AM

That's a big one to cross off your list, Raul. Great job! It's a movie I need to see again to truly know how I feel about it.

rauldc14

08-19-21, 09:07 AM

The slacker that I am still has to write up The Hurt Locker, which I saw last week.

seanc

08-19-21, 09:43 AM

I love Godfather II, but still definitely prefer the first.

Okay

08-19-21, 11:24 AM

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/57ebc57bd1758ef9c90fd6b3/1523886673175-RN6UHCX4X3KCK3OBVMPX/tumblr_o33zycAkQP1t06ubmo3_500.gif?format=1000w
https://cinemapotatotjy.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/97940-gravefirefly.gif

Grave of the Fireflies aka Hotaru no haka (1988)

Setsuko: Why do fireflies die so soon?

This was everything I had expected it to be, including how beautifully sad it would end up being. I knew for a fact that I would have rather not viewed this for the emotional impact it would cause me. Knowing full well how incredibly beautiful this film would be and is.
Even a day later, as I write this, it still permeates and weighs me down. Its emotional impact was still powerful enough to circumvent the foreknowledge of what would occur, along with the opening scene. The inevitable sadness STILL affected me due to how masterfully poetic director Isao Takahata brings this story of orphaned Seito trying his very best to care for his little sister, Setsuko, amidst the ever-present air bombing. Its devastation was relentlessly visited by American aircraft continually bombing Japan at the end of WWII.

In fact, this year, I have watched several beautifully done, incredibly tragic Japanese films set during that time, and each has moved me. Two of which were anime. A couple I would venture back to, and while I am so very tempted to with GotF at this exact moment, the gripping sadness is too intense to override the utter beauty of both the animation as well as the very story itself to revisit. Though at some point, I feel that I will. Because of JUST how beautiful this tragic film is.

I remember not being as into the film in the beginning, but once that horrific image of the mother's state was shown, then it hit me that this animated Ghibli film is daring to go there and will go there, and that's something you usually don't see not just in animated films but movies in general. After that I was completely captivated and immersed by the relationship between the brother and sister, and that to me was the driving force and the beauty behind this film.

The common critique I usually read about Grave of the Fireflies is that it's manipulative in the way it tries to get emotions out of you, and personally that wasn't my experience at all because the most affective moments for me were ones that directly had to do with the genuineness of the main relationship, and not specifically the horror inflicted upon 'em. There's so much love between the two that that alone would drive you to heartbreak. She's a smart child who realises the situation and atmosphere they're in and therefore thrives to appear grown for her brother in order to not be as much of a weight on him...but she's still just a little girl. Meanwhile, he's obviously working hard to provide for her while being in an emotional crisis because of all the turmoil and anxiety that comes with the realisation of the fact that they're all alone from now on with absolutely no one to lean on. And in spite of all of that, their relationship blossoms so many beautiful moments, those are the true tear jerker moments for me.

Okay

08-19-21, 11:46 AM

Taste of Cherry

https://jojud265nia2bj9sy4ah9b61-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/CherryTHumb-920x517-c-default.jpg

Risky pick. I've had my fair share of sourness with Kiarastomi as it's been quite hard to connect with him. While it did continue to be hard to connect here, there was some sense of beauty and admiration in the filmmaking here. I loved that the third person he talked to about doing the job was once in his shoes and I loved that mulberries "saved" the guys life. I loved that guys positive tone. I loved the end where we were left to think of what had actually happened. There was a lot of beautiful imagery throughout the film.

But the film did lag a lot and was quite a slow burn for a 100 minute film. I feel as the minutes go by I appreciate the film more and more, yet strangely I didn't feel that a lot while I was actually watching it. That makes the rewatch potential of this pretty intriguing. For now, I'll just have to keep thinking about it.

3

I picked this film for you because I think you're a fan of Antonioni, and Taste of Cherry at least in terms of cinematography and the minimalism and the atmosphere established through them have always reminded of that director's films.

I also think Taste of Cherry is fantastic to watch when one's severely depressed, because for one it's not condescending in its preaching, and more importantly, especially when we get to the last man that the main character talks to, we get a lot of wisdom and encouraging words and ideas and thoughts, none of them being too philosophical or pretentious, all very simple, to the point, real, and very affective.

Although, the ending and that last shot still confuses me. It was just weird and unnecessary, and if anyone has more thoughts on it please share.

Okay

08-19-21, 12:03 PM

Monsieur Hire

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PfeoPMUjPrM/S5IGNwjImDI/AAAAAAAAAxY/VzxqSYc357g/s400/MH_hands.png

3.5+

This is labeled a crime drama, but it's also a tale of loneliness, and perhaps of finding love in unexpected places. I say perhaps because there's potential ulterior motives in play. It's about a murder investigation and a sad middle aged man who spies on his young hot neighbor, until he doesn't have to spy no more. This is a superb 80 minute French film from the Ebert list. Make it American and take away the subtlety, and we have a movie similar to many in the 80's and early 90's.

I would love to re-watch Monsieur Hire sometime soon. It's an underseen gem that more people should check out, at least for the cinematography which still sticks out in my memory. It's also interesting to see how this came out the same year as The Decalogue, which has an episode extremely similar to the story behind this film, too similar I would say. What 80s or 90s films is this similar to by the way?

Okay

08-19-21, 12:59 PM

Thoughts on some of the other films mentioned:

Onibaba - Haven't seen this in the longest. I remember loving it upon my first watch, I even put it somewhere in my ballot for the most recent horror list, but a re-watch is surely due to at least confirm my feelings on it.

Sophie's Choice - I surprisingly liked this a lot despite some of the cheese and melodrama its got. Streep is fantastic, and her character's choice in the end is truly an iconic movie moment of all time.

True Romance - I like both Tarantino and Scott, and wish they collaborated more. The latter's debut feature The Hunger is super underrated and so is the director himself. This felt like a Tarantino film minus the obnoxious aspects that draw attention to themselves, so yeah this felt way more subdued which I liked, while also maintaining the strongest and more likeable elements of a Tarantino script.

Zodiac - It's great to see more discussions in this thread, too bad it's about the one Fincher film I have the least to say about. I partially agree with CR, the film is mostly boring and fails at its attempts of being contemplative. I usually love Gyllenhaal, he's probably in my Top 5 personal favorite actors, but this performance of his is easily the weakest and feels the most replaceable. I actually tribute a lot of what I found dull about the film to not only his performance but also how his character was written. It tried to convey the regular shmegular detective slowly turning dangerously obsessed kind of character, but it did it in the most tame lame and unchallenging way possible. It felt like nothing truly came of it, nor did it even feel like there was ever a character change. And as for the cinematography, that was also a huge negative for me. It was cinematic which goes against what the film was trying to accomplish.

edarsenal

08-19-21, 03:25 PM

I remember not being as into the film in the beginning, but once that horrific image of the mother's state was shown, then it hit me that this animated Ghibli film is daring to go there and will go there, and that's something you usually don't see not just in animated films but movies in general. After that I was completely captivated and immersed by the relationship between the brother and sister, and that to me was the driving force and the beauty behind this film.

The common critique I usually read about Grave of the Fireflies is that it's manipulative in the way it tries to get emotions out of you, and personally that wasn't my experience at all because the most affective moments for me were ones that directly had to do with the genuineness of the main relationship, and not specifically the horror inflicted upon 'em. There's so much love between the two that that alone would drive you to heartbreak. She's a smart child who realises the situation and atmosphere they're in and therefore thrives to appear grown for her brother in order to not be as much of a weight on him...but she's still just a little girl. Meanwhile, he's obviously working hard to provide for her while being in an emotional crisis because of all the turmoil and anxiety that comes with the realisation of the fact that they're all alone from now on with absolutely no one to lean on. And in spite of all of that, their relationship blossoms so many beautiful moments, those are the true tear jerker moments for me.
That is an excellent description of both the film and the experience of it. One that very much mirrors how I feel and felt at the time of seeing this. And this is something I will revisit again. For all its beautiful moments.

edarsenal

08-19-21, 03:36 PM

Like everyone else, I too prefer The Godfather to II. This may include how I've seen the first countless times from a kid when it came on TV and I've only seen the second a couple of times. It does include Brando's performance, absolutely. Along with the absence of Caan and Duvall that added levels to the first.
I imagine the second would benefit from a few more watches but in the end, I think my love for the first will always shadow the second instead of excitement for the continuation of the story. Even with Pacino's spot-on performance of Micheal. His arc carries it brilliantly and is the core of the trilogy for good reason.

cricket

08-19-21, 05:33 PM

I would love to re-watch Monsieur Hire sometime soon. It's an underseen gem that more people should check out, at least for the cinematography which still sticks out in my memory. It's also interesting to see how this came out the same year as The Decalogue, which has an episode extremely similar to the story behind this film, too similar I would say. What 80s or 90s films is this similar to by the way?

I don't think it's too far off from movies like Body Double as an erotic thriller, but it's still different enough to stand out on it's own.

Thief

08-19-21, 06:00 PM

rauldc14

08-19-21, 08:43 PM

It definitely didn't seem like an Oscar winning performance to me. Crazy he won it

Siddon

08-19-21, 11:33 PM

It definitely didn't seem like an Oscar winning performance to me. Crazy he won it

Level of competition

Astaire - The Towering Inferno
Bridges - Thunderbolt and Lightfoot
Gazzo - Godfather II
Strasberg - Godfather II

It's pretty crazy that when you look at the 10 acting Godfather noms...

Brando - winner
Deniro - winner
Pacino - 2X nominee
Duval
Caan
Shire
Gazzo
Strasberg
Garcia
These two missed out
https://i.gifer.com/9mOW.gif

rauldc14

08-20-21, 07:44 AM

Not sure I follow how Shire got a nom either. Even Keaton was probably more successful in her role.

Hey Fredrick

08-23-21, 11:14 AM

The Cranes are Flying may, in a few years, become my fav foreign film. I couldn't find anything wrong with it from story to screen.

I liked Zodiac but it's not a movie that flies by for me. Never had a problem with any of the acting in it but it does drag at times. Been a long time since I've watched it but that's what I remember. Had a feeling it would be iffy for CR.

Godfather 2 I've seen it because it's one of those movie you have to see. It's good but I've seen part 1 several times and part 2 only once. Completely agree with raul on DeNiro's performance.

The Right Stuff is one I recommended to Cricket for a HoF so if he recommended it to ed I feel pretty good about that. Like others have said, I remember when it was released and it didn't interest me at all. When I did finally get around to it I loved it . Has quite a bit more humor than I expected and the cinematography is great. The only knock against it is Dennis Quaid and his **** eating grin. Ugh!

I've also seen True Romance and have it at rating_4 so I like it but other than Dennis Hopper's scene and the ending it's all kind of fuzzy.

Started watching Another Earth but my stream crashed. First ten minutes were good.

Hey Fredrick

08-23-21, 11:51 AM

I think that many MoFos are so desensitized to violence by the movies that they watch, that they don't view brutal killings as shown in Zodiac as much of a big deal. But I don't watch slasher horror films, etc.

Sorry I'm a little late to this and I'm not trying to stir things up again but it's not so much some of us are desensitized to violence it's just that there's different types of violence. I understand that you don't like that stuff but I don't think it's fair to compare a slasher films violence with something like Zodiac. It's different. They are trying to elicit a completely different response from the viewer. In a slasher film it's purely visual. Kind of a look how creative we can be killing folks and what we can do with the fx type thing. There's a purpose to it in Zodiac just like there's a reason Spielberg shows the extreme violence in something like Schindler's List or Gibson did in The Passion of the Christ. I can watch a person, hung upside down, be sawed in half with everything spilling out on the docks, in a slasher film and think it's great fun (Terrifier). That doesn't desensitize me to the violence in other, dare I say, more serious movies. When I watch something like Grand Canyon and see Kevin Kline barely slice his finger open with a paring knife, it makes me squirm. There's a reality to the scene in Grand Canyon that's not there in slasher films.

But I get that it's all subjective and it's why I don't pick movies like that for you. Cricket, on the other hand...I'd recommend anything for him. The more disgusting the better.