Lets Talk Football

[honeykid]

Getting ready to batten down the hatches. Not seen the team sheets yet, but unless something magical happens on either side, I'm very worried. PSG are a bit like Spurs in so much as I actually think it benefits them to play to no one. If United score early or it's a draw going into the latter stages a PSG crowd would be getting worried/nervous and the players would feel all those past failures haunt them. That isn't going to happen tonight. Although the main reason it won't happen is because we'll be lucky to be that close to them. :D

[honeykid]

Shut up HK, you know nothing... Is what I should be saying here and with great pleasure as, once more, football exists to prove the folly of predicting the future.

That said, I don't think anyone could've predicred that Tuchel would find a look-a-like agency which had doubles of his entire team, let alone him deciding to play all of them.

I did have a bit more faith once I saw Pogba wasn't in the starting line up. At least there was a midfield which would just sit there, break up play and pass the ball. Rather than lose posession of it 25 yards from goal while trying to turn.

De Gea looked like the player he was 3 years ago which was great because a couple of times we needed that player. Telles had a good first game. Nothing special, but solid with obvious quality. Tuanzebe showed what he can do and, if he can stay fit and play like that regularly, then the position of pacy central defender we're crying out for can be well and truly filled. Fernandes once again proved he's the talisman of this team and should be used to push Pogba (if long Covid isn't the reason for his recent performances) to either step up to the position in the team he was bought for or as a warning that if he wants to go to Real, then we're more likely to be fielding calls about Bruno than him unless his performances improve dramatically and consistantly.

But even for all that, PSG should've been up for this. Neymar was coming too deep to find the ball (great for us), Mbappe had no joy against the two fastest defenders we have... But for some reason didn't think to try to other side, where we had a new player and a left-back playing centrally. Again, I'm thankful, it just didn't make sense to me. I think Neymar and Di Maria were pissing off the ref with their antics and moaning and their midfield looked really poor.

Were it not for Rashford making a couple of poor decisions at vital moments and Navas being their man of the match, we'd have won by two or three. Ole got it spot on, made the big decisions and should get the credit for it. But is also lucky to have come up against a PSG who had almost nothing to offer.

[WrinkledMind]

Ajax will rightly fancy it tonight. Apparently no Matip as well for us, along with Virgil and Thiago.


That's Fabinho pushed to CB - probably at least till December. Both Joe Gomez and Matip are injury prone. Should be an interesting time till December.


Also, don't think Van Dijk will be the same again. At his age and with that injury, he is unfortunately done.

[Daniel M]

Ajax will rightly fancy it tonight. Apparently no Matip as well for us, along with Virgil and Thiago.


That's Fabinho pushed to CB - probably at least till December. Both Joe Gomez and Matip are injury prone. Should be an interesting time till December.


Also, don't think Van Dijk will be the same again. At his age and with that injury, he is unfortunately done.

Fabinho immense again at CB, Gomez much improved too alongside him. I really rate Matip normally he's just way too injury prone. Will be interesting to see if we bring in a CB in January.

Impressive stuff tonight I thought, fairly comfortable and with lots of rotation. Jota looked great when he came on too.

[WrinkledMind]

I thought Gomez did well. Adrian made some good saves, but the s panic he spreads in the side is worrying. Just need more calmer heads.

Thought we did well. Fabinho was amazing.

[Daniel M]

I thought Gomez did well. Adrian made some good saves, but the s panic he spreads in the side is worrying. Just need more calmer heads.

Thought we did well. Fabinho was amazing.

I think Gomez has most of the attributes to be a great player and has shown it in spells, it seems to me his issues are down to confidence. One mistake and his head goes down and he’s starts to crumble. Needs to be a bit more of a lion and a leader like VVD or even Fabinho. Hopefully he can regain his form and we can plug that gap for now at least.

Adrian is a pretty good shot stopper and makes some great saves, but as you say he just spreads panic. Handling and communication is awful, as well as distribution which I thought show in the Merseyside Derby.

I was happy with the performance, lots of rotation so to get three points away in our opening game is good. I’m looking forward to the Atalanta game, I think that could be a goal-fest.

[honeykid]

Same old story, I've seen it all my life. They don't call them lucky Liverpool for nothing. They got the job done though. I'm looking forward to the Liverpool/Atalanta games, they should be crackers.

Shame Porto couldn't keep City at bay, though even I thought Pepe was lucky to stay on the pitch.

[WrinkledMind]

honeykid today to rival fans.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/5e/71/cb5e7114f10ded366fa57755db11289c.gif

[Powdered Water]

honeykid How's United doing?

[honeykid]

honeykid How's United doing?

For United? Not well at all. That's because the club is being run so horribly and I personally don't think we'll do much until that changes. However, after last night.

honeykid today to rival fans.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/5e/71/cb5e7114f10ded366fa57755db11289c.gif

TBH we didn't play that well then either. First half wasn't great, but apart from a couple of chances I didn't think Leipzig threatened that much either. Second half was much better and especially once Ole brought on Rashford and Bruno. As you'd expect.

I'm loving VAR though. I've been saying for years that we are denied more goals than we're given and, being a United fan no one believe me. But it's being bourne out more and more in the last couple of years. Rashford's goal wouldn't have been given without it and it's arguable that Greenwood's wouldn't either.

For all that, how Chelsea didn't get a penalty on Saturday I honestly have no idea. You don't mind the officials missing something blatant because they weren't looking/couldn't see it, but even as a United fan I'd have been embarrassed not to have given Maguire's foul after watching the replay.

I don't know if you'll be able to see this or not Powdered Water but there's some excellent finishing to be seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq4eBwOxFe0

[WrinkledMind]

I am understandably not loving VAR. Pickford challenge, Mane goal, and the penalty against Sheffield - which was clearly at most a free kick.


Personally I don't there's an issue with the technology, but the problem is the officials in charge of it who are either overanalyzing it or doing nothing on clear fouls.

[Daniel M]

Every time OGS seems to be under real pressure they pull off some good results, then it seems to go back to problems and being poor, rinse and repeat. You have a lot of good players but I agree with your assessment that unless the wider scale problems are addressed, then proper success seems unlikely for a while.

[honeykid]

I am understandably not loving VAR. Pickford challenge, Mane goal, and the penalty against Sheffield - which was clearly at most a free kick.
Well, for the last few weeks you haven't. They weren't calling them LiVARpool for nothing before. ;)


Personally I don't there's an issue with the technology, but the problem is the officials in charge of it who are either overanalyzing it or doing nothing on clear fouls.
Quoted for truth.

[WrinkledMind]

Can't argue with VAR today. Looked like a harsh tackle from Mane on their keeper and defender.


Jota is another win for Michael ****ing Edwards.
Shaq once again showing that he has talent. But he has done this in the past. Had a couple of good games and then disappeared for months with an injury. Props to Philips. What a debut.

Two really tough games coming up.

[honeykid]

What I don't know is why, if the Mane goal was disallowed for serious foul play (which I believe it was) then how was Mane not carded? Can you have serious foul play without it being, at least, a yellow? Genuine question as (it appears) I'm not clear on the law. Even all the talk after it from pundits and I haven't heard anyone mention it.

[WrinkledMind]

What I don't know is why, if the Mane goal was disallowed for serious foul play (which I believe it was) then how was Mane not carded? Can you have serious foul play without it being, at least, a yellow? Genuine question as (it appears) I'm not clear on the law. Even all the talk after it from pundits and I haven't heard anyone mention it.


Fair point. But the crazy thing is that the refs deemed his back leg bringing the West Ham defender (Ogbonna was it) down as the foul. Not Mane going into the GK. Which again shows how Refs are doing a strange job ruining VAR.


Even though he was going for the ball, I thought it was kind of a dangerous play going into Fabianski. But refs only cared for Mane's dragging left leg that brought Ogbonna down.

[honeykid]

Another terrible weekend for the refs in the Premier League. What was the Spurs/Brighton ref seeing?

A bad weekend all round for United fans. Bad result against Arsenal (kind of expected because I thought Arteta would get the better of Ole) but I hoped for a boring 0-0 draw or something like that) which was the first home loss to Arsenal in years. Nobby Stiles, World Cup winner and league, FA Cup and European Cup winner with United died and then the news that Sir Bobby Charlton, also World Cup winner, league, FA Cup and European Cup winner and (IMO) the greatest English player who ever kicked a ball and last of the Busby Babes, has dementia. :(

Does Ole's job depend on what he does with Pogba? Or can he go on as long as he says yes and swallows what he's fed.

I can only see two options. Either he's on the bench most games and is brought on to change a game or Ole builds the team around him so you get the best out of him. IMO that pretty much puts him on the Juve track. Let him play how he wants with the people around him to do the defending and provide the shape. That's how he played at Juve and his best performaces for France have come with similar tactics.

Personally, I'd be looking to get shot of him or have him on the bench. It just hasn't worked and I'm a big believer in football being a team game and recent evidence (and the evidence of my eyes watching him the last couple of seasons) is that the team is better without him.

[WrinkledMind]

Yep, terrible news about Sir Charlton. A proper legend and gentleman.

[the samoan lawyer]

Another terrible weekend for the refs in the Premier League. What was the Spurs/Brighton ref seeing?

A bad weekend all round for United fans. Bad result against Arsenal (kind of expected because I thought Arteta would get the better of Ole) but I hoped for a boring 0-0 draw or something like that) which was the first home loss to Arsenal in years. Nobby Stiles, World Cup winner and league, FA Cup and European Cup winner with United died and then the news that Sir Bobby Charlton, also World Cup winner, league, FA Cup and European Cup winner and (IMO) the greatest English player who ever kicked a ball and last of the Busby Babes, has dementia. :(

Does Ole's job depend on what he does with Pogba? Or can he go on as long as he says yes and swallows what he's fed.

I can only see two options. Either he's on the bench most games and is brought on to change a game or Ole builds the team around him so you get the best out of him. IMO that pretty much puts him on the Juve track. Let him play how he wants with the people around him to do the defending and provide the shape. That's how he played at Juve and his best performaces for France have come with similar tactics.

Personally, I'd be looking to get shot of him or have him on the bench. It just hasn't worked and I'm a big believer in football being a team game and recent evidence (and the evidence of my eyes watching him the last couple of seasons) is that the team is better without him.


Very sad news about Bobby and Nobby.


Re Ole and Pogba. Pogba has got to go. Fully believe his heart isn't in it and hasn't been for some time. We can still get a lot of money for him so sell him to Madrid/Juve and invest wisely. I will add that he can do things that most others cant on the pitch for us, sadly its not very often and to me he just comes across as lazy (even worse when watching him in the flesh).

[honeykid]

After watching United last night I've worked out what's been confusing me and why it's not working. I've been watching Sheffield United. It's the only explaination for last nights 'attack'. Now firstly, let me say that Istanbul Basaksehir (who from now on I'll call IB because I'm lazy) defended well and were organised. From the moment they scored I was sure we were in trouble (I'll get to that goal later) but I also expected, I dunno, an attack? But no. Much like MotD highlighted at the weekend, Manchester United followed the example of the original United by getting the ball to the final 3rd of the pitch and then walking it around, passing it backwards and forwards, and side to side without ever really trying to put the ball in the box until they lost possesion. I've not seen the stats but it feels as if that happened from a misplaced pass a lot more than a lost tackle. Then, just before half time, someone tried it and we scored. It wasn't a great ball from Shaw and Martial had to do some adjustments to get the header, but it worked and we scored. Still worried, it is United after all, but hopeful that a swing in momentum, a swift kick up the backside and the instruction to turn them round and create space (or deliver another good cross to someone in the box) and we could turn this around. Instead there was 45 minutes of the same with out best chance coming in injury time (I think it was) from what was almost an own goal. I mean, I was just sat in a mood of disbelief which has become sadly familiar.

Now, I have a little more sympathy for our midfielders than the Sheffield ones because it appeared that our forwards were afraid of the box and once they reached the line, they turned back. I don't know, maybe there was a rumour that it had covid or had been mined or something, but for some reason they didn't seem to want any part of it and rarely made any runs in behind. All our players were so close together all it would've taken was a little communication, eyeing up a move or gap. Hell, point if you have to completely give it away and make the run. It doesn't even have to work. It just has to put an option in the IB defenders minds. A couple more times and you'll start to create a little space for people to move into. Maybe force a mistake? But no. No, we just rinse and repeat the first half minus any goals from either side. Well done IB. You played well. You were up for the fight, dogged and disciplined. You couldn't believe your luck (neither could I) and you took the advantage you were given. An historic night in your stadium. I only wish your fans could've been there for it.

Now, that goal. I say the following without hyperbole. That might be the worst goal I've ever seen scored against United. Certainly in terms of failing the basics. If I was teaching 10 year olds football and that happened to them I wouldn't be annoyed or angry. They're 10. But I would tell them that this is the difference between playing football on the playground or in the street and on a pitch with a team, where each player has their own position and role. I'd explain that, unless it's the final seconds of a game and you need a goal, you never leave an opposition player alone that high up and the way to defend it to have one in front and one behind, so that you can either cut out the pass to him or have someone behind him when he receives the ball. You can have a few differences once you reach this point but I'm pretty sure that every coach at almost any level would agree that this is the standard and 'best' way of starting. If you were drawing it up on the board or arranging players on a training pitch, this is how you'd do it. I'm not an expert. I'm just a fan who's watched football for decades and even I know that.

As for blame? Well Matic seems to be the most at fault. I think he was supposed to be marking Ba and Ba could be the only person on the pitch slower than Matic so that's ok. But not if you give him a 20 or more yard headstart. Was Henderson shouting out? I don't know, I've not seen an angle where I can see it. For all I know he's shouting and gesticulating wildly trying to get someone's attention. But if not, why not? Where was Ole? Or the rest of the coachiing staff for that matter? No one noticed? Or not try and make someone aware?

Will someone on the board make the decsion now? There are rumours abounding, but I'll believe it when I see it and, even if it does, who are we getting in? Another yes man who won't kick up a stink? And if it's not, will we just lose this person (Poch or Allegri are the two always spoken of) after 18 months of being frustrated by Woodward or Glazers not funding the team? Even if Ole does go, unless that last bit changes it'll probably be rinse and repeat the last 7 years. But I'd hope that one of those (or someone like that) would do better than this.

[the samoan lawyer]

After watching United last night I've worked out what's been confusing me and why it's not working. I've been watching Sheffield United. It's the only explaination for last nights 'attack'. Now firstly, let me say that Istanbul Basaksehir (who from now on I'll call IB because I'm lazy) defended well and were organised. From the moment they scored I was sure we were in trouble (I'll get to that goal later) but I also expected, I dunno, an attack? But no. Much like MotD highlighted at the weekend, Manchester United followed the example of the original United by getting the ball to the final 3rd of the pitch and then walking it around, passing it backwards and forwards, and side to side without ever really trying to put the ball in the box until they lost possesion. I've not seen the stats but it feels as if that happened from a misplaced pass a lot more than a lost tackle. Then, just before half time, someone tried it and we scored. It wasn't a great ball from Shaw and Martial had to do some adjustments to get the header, but it worked and we scored. Still worried, it is United after all, but hopeful that a swing in momentum, a swift kick up the backside and the instruction to turn them round and create space (or deliver another good cross to someone in the box) and we could turn this around. Instead there was 45 minutes of the same with out best chance coming in injury time (I think it was) from what was almost an own goal. I mean, I was just sat in a mood of disbelief which has become sadly familiar.

Now, I have a little more sympathy for our midfielders than the Sheffield ones because it appeared that our forwards were afraid of the box and once they reached the line, they turned back. I don't know, maybe there was a rumour that it had covid or had been mined or something, but for some reason they didn't seem to want any part of it and rarely made any runs in behind. All our players were so close together all it would've taken was a little communication, eyeing up a move or gap. Hell, point if you have to completely give it away and make the run. It doesn't even have to work. It just has to put an option in the IB defenders minds. A couple more times and you'll start to create a little space for people to move into. Maybe force a mistake? But no. No, we just rinse and repeat the first half minus any goals from either side. Well done IB. You played well. You were up for the fight, dogged and disciplined. You couldn't believe your luck (neither could I) and you took the advantage you were given. An historic night in your stadium. I only wish your fans could've been there for it.

Now, that goal. I say the following without hyperbole. That might be the worst goal I've ever seen scored against United. Certainly in terms of failing the basics. If I was teaching 10 year olds football and that happened to them I wouldn't be annoyed or angry. They're 10. But I would tell them that this is the difference between playing football on the playground or in the street and on a pitch with a team, where each player has their own position and role. I'd explain that, unless it's the final seconds of a game and you need a goal, you never leave an opposition player alone that high up and the way to defend it to have one in front and one behind, so that you can either cut out the pass to him or have someone behind him when he receives the ball. You can have a few differences once you reach this point but I'm pretty sure that every coach at almost any level would agree that this is the standard and 'best' way of starting. If you were drawing it up on the board or arranging players on a training pitch, this is how you'd do it. I'm not an expert. I'm just a fan who's watched football for decades and even I know that.

As for blame? Well Matic seems to be the most at fault. I think he was supposed to be marking Ba and Ba could be the only person on the pitch slower than Matic so that's ok. But not if you give him a 20 or more yard headstart. Was Henderson shouting out? I don't know, I've not seen an angle where I can see it. For all I know he's shouting and gesticulating wildly trying to get someone's attention. But if not, why not? Where was Ole? Or the rest of the coachiing staff for that matter? No one noticed? Or not try and make someone aware?

Will someone on the board make the decsion now? There are rumours abounding, but I'll believe it when I see it and, even if it does, who are we getting in? Another yes man who won't kick up a stink? And if it's not, will we just lose this person (Poch or Allegri are the two always spoken of) after 18 months of being frustrated by Woodward or Glazers not funding the team? Even if Ole does go, unless that last bit changes it'll probably be rinse and repeat the last 7 years. But I'd hope that one of those (or someone like that) would do better than this.


Not much I can possibly add to this. You hit the nail on the head on pretty much every point. I'm certainly not #Oleout but I do think he's out of his depth here, especially if he's not getting backed by the board in the same way that Lampard is by Chelsea. Loads of rumours today about Poch, which has intensified after he was on Sky the other night. I like him but is he that much of an upgrade on Ole? Like you said, unless the Glazers and Woodward go, does it really matter who we get in? I am so unhappy with our squad too. So many of our players are not even top6 quality in the league, never mind playing in Europe. Do we United fans overrate our players? Are Martial and Rashford really that good? Greenwood should be playing more. Cavani being brought in is a player I think needs playing time to get the most out of him. He's not a super sub.


Is there a more infuriating team? :mad:

[Chypmunk]

I dunno, you Man U fans should try being a Gooner for a year ..... THEN you'll know what frustration feels like ;)

[the samoan lawyer]

I dunno, you Man U fans should try being a Gooner for a year ..... THEN you'll know what frustration feels like ;)


Probably true. I watch almost every minute of every United game and not much from any other team so I could be wrong about this, it just feels like so many other teams play much better football that we do. Granted, we have been (very slightly) more successful these last few seasons but aside from a few games here and there, the quality of our play has been woeful, even when winning.

[neiba]

Same old story, I've seen it all my life. They don't call them lucky Liverpool for nothing. They got the job done though. I'm looking forward to the Liverpool/Atalanta games, they should be crackers.

Shame Porto couldn't keep City at bay, though even I thought Pepe was lucky to stay on the pitch.

I've waited some time till I commented on that match because I was infuriated by what happened on the field.

Yeah Pepe escaped a redcard, though Sterling escaped leaving this field with half of teeths on his stomach (remember how was Pepe 10 years ago?).

Although, you can't possible mention the match without mentioning the absolute garbage that referee and the VAR were. That first goal cannot ever be allowed, in any circunstance. The fact that the referee and the VAR purposedly ignored Marchesin being stamped like that it's inadmissable. And I say purposedly because there's no way at least the VAR didn't see it. He just chose to ignore it.

Then there's the 2nd goal scored from a dubious foul and by a player who should have been sent off already...

I mean, without those 2 goals we could have still lost. We could have even awaken Guardiola's rage and suffer 5 or 6 goals in the second half. But I'd still would have liked us to have had an opportunity. Losing like that is frustrating.

We're doing a decent job in the other matches though, but a horrible job in Portugal. Let's hope Sergio Conceição finds the right team at once.

[honeykid]

Now that Liverpool have lost their young back up and don't have any midfielders left to move back into defense (or at least, none you'd expect to be able to do the job) can United please, please try and buy Upamecano before Liverpool decide to pay out big for the next 10 years, rather than plug the gap for 6 months?

I know United won't do it whether Liverpool go for him or not. For some reason they still think he'll be there and we'll get him unchallenged next summer.

Congrats to North Macedonia on qualifying for the Euros. The country must be so pleased and proud of their team. :up:

[WrinkledMind]

Well, there's always Milner for CB?


On a serious note, I think after Van Dijk's injury the club was looking at short term solutions. Thiago Silva like free signing. But after Gomez's injury they will go for a long term signing. From what I am hearing it's either Kabak from Schalke or Upamecano. So, yeah, if that happens then it would be fun...for the selling club.

[honeykid]

I'd forgotten about Milner. :D Seriously though, he can at least read the game well enough to give it a go.

I agree with you about what Liverpool 'were' going to do as opposed to what I expect now. How long does Koulibaly have left on his contract? He's the only one which instantly comes to mind as an alternative. But I really expect a younger, the next 10 years, kind of buy.

[WrinkledMind]

Koulibaly's contract is apparently till 2025 so I expect him to be really, really pricey.


I would like Soyuncu instead. Has Prem experience and is a good defender and younger.

[honeykid]

He's at Leicester though, which means he'll be very pricey. Although you won't have Woodward and co trying to make the deal, so you might get him cheaper than we would. :D

[WrinkledMind]

Yep the Turk won't come cheap. Especially more so when everyone knows that we are desperate for a defender.


Also, two reliable LFC journalists (Hughes and Oniel) are saying that we will go for Upamecano. This in addition to Maddock. Apparently he has a 40 million release clause (which is cheap in today's market), which only kicks in at the end of the season, but the club might be forced to make a move in January.
The club has a good relationship with Leipzig.

[WrinkledMind]

Terrible news about Ray Clemence. A legend and one of the all time greats.


RIP.

[honeykid]

Yes, an absolute legand. Him and Shilton and the England #1 shirt are my memories as a young football fan. Naturally I liked Shilton more as he didn't have Scouse connections. :D

Two odd stories which are true and football related.

Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney: Hollywood stars to take over Wrexham (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54956962)
Baccara would re-record Yes Sir, I Can Boogie as Scotland anthem (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54951970)

Yes, Sir is genuinely one of my favourites songs and as an Englishman it's horrible it's been co-opted by the Old Enemy.

[WrinkledMind]

Classic Mourinho that, and I weirdly enjoyed it. Maybe because I was hoping for City to lose, who by the way looked a bit slow and devoid of ideas in the second half.
Apart from Spurs' CBs, I thought Kane was fantastic while playing more like a midfielder. Even did quite a bit of defending.


I know it's early, but the media must be loving the prospect of Mourinho in a title race.

[neiba]

Hey Guardiola, **** you! :D

[neiba]

Man. City, a team who shouldn't be allowed to be on the CL, with a millionaire budget, with the referee forgiving yet another ridiculous penalty playing against a team that is technically broken and still complaining that FC Porto style is disgusting! Ahahahahah!
That's why a Porto fan is worth 200x of any fan from cancer teams like City, teams who wouldn't exist if it wasn't for dirty oil money. We've been broken for 4 years, with FFP imposing ridiculous limitations and in that same period we're through the group stage for the third time! You can't buy that.

[WrinkledMind]

Call me petty, but I enjoyed the stick given to Bernardo Silva by Porto's newsletter. A bit unwarranted (yes, I know the context around the word he used in the past), but that spoilt jerk deserves every insult coming his way.

[neiba]

Call me petty, but I enjoyed the stick given to Bernardo Silva by Porto's newsletter. A bit unwarranted (yes, I know the context around the word he used in the past), but that spoilt jerk deserves every insult coming his way.


Yeah, I think the thing with the racism was a mistake by Porto. The context in itself is ridiculous. Especially because that piece of sh*t has so much you can insult that taking the racist thing is lazy... I preferred what our manager said (Sergio was told that Guardiola was pissed at the way we played and he answered: "oh, was he? That's only natural, if I had his money and his players I'd also be if i couldn't win this match")
And then Fernandinho had a similar type of speech and one of our former players who was commenting on the match on live tv said something like: "20 seconds of pure stupidity. If you changed his head by a donkey's head, the donkey would end up with the worst part of the deal"

[neiba]

A question to all british: I was discussing with some portuguese friends and we all agreed there are certain teams who don't have a lot of respect in their own country due to the way they became big. PSG, Leipzig, City have all grown solely from huge private investments often with very questionable sources. Where we disagreed was if Chelsea provoked the same kind of lack of respect from fans of other clubs and if not, why?


Maybe honeykid?

[Taz]

A question to all british: I was discussing with some portuguese friends and we all agreed there are certain teams who don't have a lot of respect in their own country due to the way they became big. PSG, Leipzig, City have all grown solely from huge private investments often with very questionable sources. Where we disagreed was if Chelsea provoked the same kind of lack of respect from fans of other clubs and if not, why?


Maybe @honeykid (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=6348)?


Chelski provoked exactly the same reaction. Although they were no longer quite out on their ass as they had been in the 80's when Ken Bates bought them for £1, but through the 90s and the rise of the Premier League and had managed to win the FA Cup a couple of times.

But when Roman Abromovich showed up that was a whole new level, which was greeted with disdain by fans of other clubs. The better part of 20 years may've softened some of the ill-will, but it absolutely existed then, whether or not it is as strong now as once was, but there are a lot of people that still refer to them as Chelski, including myself.

[WrinkledMind]

As Taz rightly says, they were hated for the same reasons City and PSG are now. Over the years that has mellowed down, but they have also been helped by the fact that people have now shifted their ire towards City.


I remember cringing at Chelsea fans in stands flashing cash in their hands on matchdays. Also, the worst fan base when it comes to banners. All they could muster up were A4 size papers with terrible messages. I especially remember them when Jose was fired after his first stint.


The funniest one was during the Rafa Jose rivalry. I know a big deal is made about Anfield's atmosphere, and to counter it the folks at Stamford Bridge left plastic flags on seats for fans to wave during one European match against the Reds to show that even they could create a good atmosphere. Clowns they were Chelsea, before City came and stole their spotlight.

[John-Connor]

FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022 draw

Who you got?
69765
69766

A
Portugal
Serbia
B
Spain
Sweden
C
Italy
Switzerland
D
France
Ukraine
E
Belgium
Czech republic
F
Denmark
????
G
Netherlands
Turkey
H
Croatia
Russia
I
England
Poland
J
Germany
Iceland

[ScarletLion]

We've got Belgium again. They'll be out for revenge.

[WrinkledMind]

Scotland have a decent chance to clinch a playoff spot, and then hope for the best in the playoffs. I really want Robbo to go to the World Cup.


I actually fancy Wales over Czech to clinch that playoff spot.


Can't see the big teams slipping. The group toppers are obvious.

[WrinkledMind]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS3RI9ocHwouLmx82P03G7s8Bo4xChEmK8QPg&usqp=CAU



Another football great passes away. Paolo Rossi, Italian legend who came back after serving a ban because of the Totonero match fixing scandal to win the World Cup for Italy. It was his World Cup, scoring a hattrick against arguably the best Brazilian side.
In some ways Italy's 2006 WC win mirrored that.


Time to revisit that FIFA documentary again. It's highly recommended for those who haven't watched it yet. Voiced by another great who passed away this year, Connery.


RIP.

[neiba]

FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022 draw

Who you got?
69765
69766

A
Portugal
Serbia
B
Spain
Sweden
C
Italy
Switzerland
D
France
Ukraine
E
Belgium
Czech republic
F
Denmark
????
G
Netherlands
Turkey
H
Croatia
Russia
I
England
Poland
J
Germany
Iceland


Ughhh , national teams football... 🙄

[Artimis]

YNWA

[Powdered Water]

Is the U goin up against City tomorrow honeykid? Am I Seeing my calendar right? How they lookin?

[WrinkledMind]

Pep played for a draw. Wasn't expected from him, but not surprising. He has done that on his visits to Anfield. He no longer goes all attack away against big sides.


The match was dreadful. But it wasn't half as bad as listening to Martin Tyler, the peak of which happened at City's freekick, when he cracked what he thought was a gem of a quip, and I quote him: 'De Gea, De Bruyne, Dah-erby'.


https://media1.tenor.com/images/9da9a7286c887f9f114dfa3eaa3471e5/tenor.gif?itemid=3629561

[WrinkledMind]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRtYyifZYGJn7Yj9BYRAkooHkn4h9PkeHOyvw&usqp=CAU


Gerard Houllier has passed away and that actually hurts. I became a football fan with his Liverpool side. He brought in some good players, but his biggest contribution, apart from winning trophies (including a treble), was making Stevie the captain over Hyypia who himself was good enough to wear the armband.


Houllier also came across as a nice guy, who cared a little too much for the club, which took a toll on his health. He left the club in a good health for Rafa to take in forward. Always spoke nicely about the club and was genuinely loved by all fans.


RIP.

[honeykid]

R.I.P. Gerard. :(

I'd only just read about this and, sadly, it was because I only found out about the death of another much loved footballer yesterday.

Papa Bouba Diop died at the age of 42. I don't know how well he was known outside Senegal or Premier League followers, but he was affectionately known as "The Wardrobe" and, as I remember it, was a cult hero and was held in great affection at every English club he played for.

R.I.P. Papa. :(

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55124939

And because I always like to see an unlikely goalscorer score a great goal against United.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcf3dENpVBw

[Taz]

Sad to learn of Houllier's passing. RIP YNWA


Following developments at the Celtic AGM.



2020 Scottish Cup Final this Sunday... just a little bit late because of covid, but better late than never.

[neiba]

Well... It looks like CR7 won't win the CL this year again... 😁

[Chypmunk]

Never minded Houllier, always seemed like a gentleman.
Requiescat in pace Gérard.

[WrinkledMind]

That was enjoyable. Spurs had enough chances in the second half to get that typical Mourinho victory. Happy for Bobby. Has had a rough few months.
Also, a word on young Rhys Williams. He is a budget version of Van Dijk. Similar hairstyle, kind of similar running style and the way he gathers the balls and turns. Has put in another good performance against a formidable frontline.

Good tribute to Houllier. The sooner the stadiums get full the better.

[neiba]

It's cool to see Mou back to what seems his prime again! Rooting for Spurs this year!

[WrinkledMind]

It's cool to see Mou back to what seems his prime again! Rooting for Spurs this year!


Yep, he is back to the old Mourinho of Chelsea (first stint) and Inter. You can even tell in the press conferences. I was smiling listening to his pre Liverpool game press conference where he named all our injuries. And fortunately for him, his Spurs players and fans are buying into that brand of defensive-counter attacking football, which for me makes him a contender this season.


Maybe it's one of the reasons why he failed at Real Madrid and United (I know he won trophies there and had to fight player power), but the fans and to some extent the players there wouldn't accept this brand of football. I can't speak about his time at Porto. I only followed his UCL run the season your club won.


I am not going to be a snob about it, and say that it's anti football or unacceptable. It works for him (almost worked on Wednesday night). And if he ends up winning the league this season, then it will be hailed again.

[neiba]

Yep, he is back to the old Mourinho of Chelsea (first stint) and Inter. You can even tell in the press conferences. I was smiling listening to his pre Liverpool game press conference where he named all our injuries. And fortunately for him, his Spurs players and fans are buying into that brand of defensive-counter attacking football, which for me makes him a contender this season.


Maybe it's one of the reasons why he failed at Real Madrid and United (I know he won trophies there and had to fight player power), but the fans and to some extent the players there wouldn't accept this brand of football. I can't speak about his time at Porto. I only followed his UCL run the season your club won.


I am not going to be a snob about it, and say that it's anti football or unacceptable. It works for him (almost worked on Wednesday night). And if he ends up winning the league this season, then it will be hailed again.


I'd say his time in real was pretty successful. More impressive than winning the CL was winning the Spanish league against what what probably one of the best teams of all time. But I understand what you mean.


In Porto, what he did will always be one of the most incredible achievements done by a manager in history. The fact that he built his team using only unknown players from secondary portuguese teams or from the unwanted of benfica and sporting lisbon and turned them into the best generation of portuguese football ever while winning everything is nothing short of extraordinary. Deco, for example, was a drug addict released by benfica not long before Porto bought him. 4 years later he was playing with Messi and Ronaldinho... That was Mou.


From what I remember seeing them play, they usually massacred during the first 20/30 minutes, often scoring a goal or 2 and then it's counterattack until the end.

[honeykid]

I have to admit I was a little worried about yesterday. Leeds are the kind of team which could've ripped us apart had we approached it wrongly. Thankfully that didn't happen and two goals in three minutes meant that the players were all confident but, critically, stayed on top and kept their concentration.

I was gutted when Leeds got promoted. Even the thought of beating them twice didn't make up for the fact they were back in the Premier League. But I have to admit that yesterday felt reeeaaalllly good.

Unlike the rest of the planet I haven't decided that Ole is the man now and we're the challengers to Liverpool this season, but if you can't enjoy a 6-2 win against historic (main?) rivals then maybe football isn't the game for you.

[WrinkledMind]

I would love a United - LFC title fight.

[honeykid]

So would I. :laugh: Even if you handed us our arses I'd love a title fight because it would mean we were actually good enough to be involved in one.

BTW, I mean a real title fight, not just we're the best of the rest and we're still 15 points behind. :D

[honeykid]

We were lucky, but that's the kind of win United haven't been able to get, at a (supposed) critical time, for years. It felt like one of those moments fans will look back on should things progress.

[WrinkledMind]

You lot could go joint top tonight, honeykid.


On a side note, I came across this list of players who are going to be out of contract at the end of the season. It doesn't feature Ozil, who at 32 is also going to be out of contract soon, and could still be an option for a top club in a less hectic league.
But there are some interesting options here. While Puig looks the most attractive one, I expect him to extend his contract at Barcelona.


Draxler looks another interesting option. Wasted at PSG. And a bit controversial this and unlikely to happen, but I wouldn't mind seeing Aguero at Anfield considering he was a boyhood LFC fan, and he would be an amazing option from the bench.


Wijnaldum looks likely to leave. He has been a reliable player, but we do have options to cope.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqK9cZcW4AAQUmn?format=jpg&name=medium

[honeykid]

So we're joint top with a game in hand.... But that's all it is. I have to admit that even I get a smile on my face when I see that at this point in the season (it's not like it's after 3 games or something like that) but I still don't think it's something to get carried away with. In this season of all seasons, a couple of wins or loses and the table looks very different.

Ole's been there, Arteta has been there and Frank's there atm. Listening to the talk and the rumours while trying to overturn some really poor form. Of course, Ole and Michel were lucky in that they didn't have Abramovich as their boss.

Are the Liverpool fans here getting at all worried by their form? How long is Jota out for? There's talk of Barca and Real for Mo Salah. I don't think it'll happen but I don't think it'd be a bad thing if it did. I freely admit that I've never gotten the hype over Salah. Don't get me wrong, he puts up good numbers but he's not close to world class IMO.

I agree with WrinkledMind that an option from the bench is needed for when the front three aren't firing (and while rare it's not the first time it's happened) I don't know if Aguero would work or not but if they don't expect him to run as much he could work. I was thinking of someone a bit more like Giroud but I doubt he'd swap sitting on the Chelsea bench for the Liverpool one with the Euros in the summer.

Another semi final tomorrow. Considering how City played on Sunday I'm not confident at all, but hopeful that it won't be a fourth semi final defeat. We need to get past this mental barrier passed.

[honeykid]

Is Klopp just frustrated or is the pressure starting to show? After 2 years of near perfection I can understand how frustrating it'd be to see everyone doing the same thing as before but not getting the same results but it happens to everyone. The United rant was particularly odd as it doesn't actually help Liverpool in any way but it was obviously something he'd looked into beforehand. I've heard some say that he's trying to get it in the officials minds (with the United game at the end of the month) and while I can see that and wondered the same myself, it didn't come across to me like that. I wouldn't go quite so far as to say it's his Rafa moment but it did have echoes of that iconic moment amd he's been moaning a lot more over the last few months.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOaZYhTd2BU

[ScarletLion]

The mighty

https://is5-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Purple18/v4/ea/95/5a/ea955aca-42f7-fb32-4c90-4862509f1402/source/256x256bb.jpg

are in a final. Can serial winner Mourinho deliver our first trophy for 12 years? We probably need a Man Utd win tonight for it to happen.

[WrinkledMind]

honeykid
The front three have looked a mixture of listless, bored, lazy, selfish, unmotivated, etc ( I don't know what's the right word to describe them correctly), since the lockdown. But because they are all supremely talented, only one of them needs to have a good match (or 30 odd minutes) to bail us out.


Jota's unexpected form is a surprise, and has also been one of the reasons to paper over the front three misfiring sometimes. He is expected back at the end of the month.


Salah has ridiculous numbers for the league and not just for us, but he can be problematic and probably the most replaceable from the front three. But when I look at the financial conditions of Madrid and Barca, I don't think they can afford him presently. PSG and Juve (if they offload several players) yes.


I am no longer worried about him. More so with Harvey Elliott coming along nicely on his loan at Blackburn.


The results have been disappointing, cause we could have put some distance between us and the challengers. It was a combination of Klopp rushing in players who have been injured for long (Trent, Thiago, Ox, etc) and them looking unfit at times, and players not taking things seriously (West Brom, Newcastle first half) to an opposition keeper having a blinder (Darlow of Newcastle). No excuses for the Southampton match, they were the better side from start to the end.




I really fear City. I think they have got over their issues,and at the back have become really solid. I expect them to sign a big money striker in this window and they could easily go on a run of good results.


I agree with you on United, Chelsea and even Spurs. It's a matter of couple of results and it could go either way with them. They are still sides that are rebuilding.


Our biggest concern is CB. We need to sign one this January window. I hope we do. Matip is like Agger V 2.0. Brilliant when available, but there's always an injury in waiting.


As for Klopp losing it. His behaviour is not surprising. As much as I love the guy, let's not forget, he once (or maybe twice) blamed the grass for defeat. I think most managers are touchy when they lose.

[honeykid]

The front three have looked a mixture of listless, bored, lazy, selfish, unmotivated, etc ( I don't know what's the right word to describe them correctly), since the lockdown. But because they are all supremely talented, only one of them needs to have a good match (or 30 odd minutes) to bail us out.
I get this and it's pretty much what I have seen when I have seen Liverpool since the resumption of the league last season. It's also how I see United's current climb, although I do think we've improved a bit at the back and Henderson's prescence seems to've lit a small fire under De Gea a bit. But, essentially, we're depending on one of our star players (often Bruno and/or Rashford) to perform some individual brilliance or a final third pass to pay off and put someone in front of goal.

I really fear City. I think they have got over their issues,and at the back have become really solid. I expect them to sign a big money striker in this window and they could easily go on a run of good results.
Yep, I agree with you about their defence. I've heard people talking numbers and stats about City's defence this season but I was really impressed with Stones and Dias on Wednesday. I don't think either of them put a foot wrong or looked like they'd been caught out of position. Those final third passes I mentioned for United were continuiously intercepted and shots blocked in the first half. Admittedly the didn't have to do so much in the second half, but they still did what they had to do perfectly. I got sick of hearing Dias' name actually which is about as much praise as I can muster for a City player atm.


Our biggest concern is CB. We need to sign one this January window. I hope we do. Matip is like Agger V 2.0. Brilliant when available, but there's always an injury in waiting.

Again I agree and I think everyone who's seen Liverpool this season would. I've heard that Klopp has said it's not going to happen this January. As I assume they have the money, I guess it means they can't get the player they want and are prepared to wait until the summer. Which may well mean there's no title this season, especially if he keeps playing two midfielders at CB and one of them is Henderson.

[neiba]

How's Telles doing so far on ManUn, honeykid?

[honeykid]

neibaGoing forward I like him but I'm still not sold on him defensively yet. I know that's not as important today (apparently) and the full backs are played like wing backs to provide width and extra man/men in midfield, but I still like defenders to defender. Don't get me wrong, he's not messing up and, unless it's full back like Wan Bissaka, it's tough to really tell about how good defensively they are on a few performances.

I think most seem to be pleased with him though and I'm hoping that with more playing time and getting settled in a new country and league, he'll really start to produce.

[honeykid]

Thank you Crawley Town. I love the third round of the FA Cup and this kind of thing is one of the reasons why. Even better when it's (Dirty) Leeds. Well done lads. :up:

[WrinkledMind]

17January to 28 January
Manchester United - Burnley - Manchester United (FA cup) - Spurs.


This will either end up being fun or painful.

[Darth Wish]

Southampton v Arsenal should be a good game too.

[honeykid]

Top of the league, you're having a laugh. :D

It's still Liverpool or CIty for the title, but it's nice to be able to say that, with nearly half the season gone, we are genuinely top of the league.

Still don't know what the ref was seeing when he disallowed Maguire's goal, but as it seems to be split among the pundits, I guess to some it doesn't look right? I know it's not the 90's anymore (sadly) but if the roles were reversed and the defender had headed that ball away in the manner Maguire 'scored' I'd have expected a corner. Wouldn't have occured to me to ask for a penalty.

[honeykid]

Big game tomorrow for the Premier League leaders (like the sound of that) and (probably) the best team in Europe for the last two years? I know City won the league the year before, but Liverpool lost it by a point and won the CL.

Tomorrow is the game which is loved and feared by the fans of each team in equal measure. Some seasons you're more confident than others, but you're always as desperate for a win in this game as you are fearful 'they'll' beat you. There are so many variables atm in the two teams that I feel a prediction is little more than a probable guess. I could make a good arguement for a win, a loss or a draw. As it is, I'll go a draw. 1-1 for those who like a scoreline.

[WrinkledMind]

If Matip somehow makes it, then we might have a chance. A defence with kids or Hendo will not be a great thing against this United side, who have run into some form.


I actually think it will be a draw. I do want a win. I always want a win in this fixture more than anything else. As a non-local LFC fan ( who was the only LFC fan in my group of friends with most being either United or Arsenal fans), this rivalry is way, way, way more important than the Merseyside derby.

[WrinkledMind]

City's title to lose. They look a different beast.


As for the match, both defences looked solid. But it was more to do with both attacks looking toothless. Quality chances were wasted by both. Alisson once again saved our arse. Shaw handled Salah with ease. Lindelof was actually decent. Fabinho was the Man of the Match.


Micah Richards continues to be a poor pundit. At half time says, that United should have gone for it. Away at Anfield? I don't really get his use, apart from his loud laughs that are meant to annoy Keane (I do think someday he is going to murder Micah).


On a side note, that's three matches in which we haven't scored. And yet, Klopp doesn't use Minamino who looked decent in the pre season. He was brilliant against Palace, and after that hasn't seen a single minute of game time. The boy is wasting his time here. He could be a useful forward for a top team somewhere else.

[honeykid]

Happy with the draw, but it's tinged with disappointment considering I thought we had the better chances and were coming on strong in the second half. I know Liverpool had more possesion and more shots, but I'd have predicted that before a ball was kicked. I felt that with one exception (the save from Thiago from just outside the box) De Gea wasn't called on to make a proper save. Klopp's definitely getting rattled. His front three just aren't executing and poor decisions are being made. I try not to criticise players for not seeing a pass because they're at pitch level with the game happening around them, while our view is at a distance and high up. But when the ex-pros in the studio are saying they should see a certain pass, then I feel it's justified.

[WrinkledMind]

Well, that was ****e.
Funnily, the front three (when Salah and Bobby came on) actually looked like they cared after a long while. But Burnley defended extremely well.

[honeykid]

Not a good week for you WrinkledMind or your boys and we've got to be ready for the inevitable reaction that a knockout tie will, almost certainly, bring out of them. FTR, I thought Klopp did the right thing with the team against Burnley. Rest a few who will play against United and give those squad players the chance to impress and make things difficult. Even if they played out of their skin I doubt he'd have changed anything this Sunday, but that's what you tell them. :D

I wonder if Ole will do the same again and make sure we're in it/equal at half time, then make the adjustments to try and win it. I don't know why, but being at home makes this less likely IMO even though there isn't a crowd.

Also, after seeing Burnley get the win and wondering for a week if we missed our chance last week to beat Liverpool, I'm interested to see if they try and play on the front foot from the get go?

[WrinkledMind]

Yeah, I agree that we were decent (but well below our levels) against Burnley. Made the right changes and all. And if Origi had taken his chance, or we had taken the other ones after Salah and Bobby came on, then we could have won.


Don't really know what to expect from the FA cup. Klopp hasn't really cared for this competition, which made the strong team featuring against Villa in the earlier round a surprise. You lot are favourites for tomorrow, and you should kick yourself if you don't win.

[honeykid]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/91f8a2f092db05d8b4accabd75a071a0/tenor.gif?itemid=8424942

:D

[hell_storm2004]

F'ed Pool... Happy!

[hell_storm2004]

Next round West Ham!

[WrinkledMind]

17January to 28 January
Manchester United - Burnley - Manchester United (FA cup) - Spurs.


This will either end up being fun or painful.
Yep. Very painful.


Anyways, well played.


I hope you lot get multiple red cards in the next round, and exit by conceding a ninetieth minute penalty.

[WrinkledMind]

Lampard has been sacked.


I am amused by the talk of Tuchel going there. He doesn't get along with powerful/demanding owners. The other name being Rodgers. I can totally see him jumping to Chelsea. He has vastly improved as manager ever since he left us.

[Darth Wish]

I don't see Rodgers leaving Leicester any time soon.
He is settled and knows Abramovich hasn't the patience when it comes to what he perceives as failure.
Rafa Benitez would be a better fit as he has the experience of dealing with a dominant owner (Mike Ashley at Newcastle)
Personally I think Abramovich has made a mistake, OGS and Arteta are examples of young managers who were being lambasted earlier in the season when on poor runs and just about every team has had it's moments this season.
Klopp is on a bad run, Pep got off to a slow start and Everton have been up and down like an Essex girl's panties in a back alley in Southend.
Man Utd were going to sack Ferguson as he got off to a poor start and look what happened there when they stuck by him.

[WrinkledMind]

Everton have been up and down like an Essex girl's panties in a back alley in Southend.
:D , that made me giggle.


Don't agree on the Rodgers bit. He is ambitious as hell and a little too confident in himself. He will back himself to succeed at Chelsea ( he is a better manager now than what he was when he was with us), where he will have a bigger transfer kitty. However, the setup and scouting at Leicester is far better and more settled.


I don't want Benitez to return to Chelsea. He wasn't appreciated by them lot when he did a great job the last time he was there.

[Golgot]

I’ve always liked Ndombele since we got him. It’s good to see him doing his thing inside the Jose machine :)

This goal ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/55672643?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=600f3f9b54a69202e80ddc2f%26%262021-01-25T22%3A08%3A35.657Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:ae1eee4d-2d89-43bb-8df0-3504805d316a&pinned_post_asset_id=600f3f9b54a69202e80ddc2f&pinned_post_type=share) tonight was sweet as

A cheeky left foot volley-steer from Bale was all good too :) (Although think the actual bursts into the box, with and without the ball, and playing the full 90, were the most pleasing things there)

[WrinkledMind]

Tuchel it is for Chelsea. Good coach with poor man-mangement skills, and has a penchant for clashing with the owners. I wonder how much this decision was driven by wanting to get the best out of Werner and Harvertz.

[Doolallyfrank]

I’ve always liked Ndombele since we got him. It’s good to see him doing his thing inside the Jose machine :)

This goal ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/55672643?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=600f3f9b54a69202e80ddc2f%26%262021-01-25T22%3A08%3A35.657Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:ae1eee4d-2d89-43bb-8df0-3504805d316a&pinned_post_asset_id=600f3f9b54a69202e80ddc2f&pinned_post_type=share) tonight was sweet as

A cheeky left foot volley-steer from Bale was all good too :) (Although think the actual bursts into the box, with and without the ball, and playing the full 90, were the most pleasing things there)


Ndombele was my choice for name and number on my shirt last season, exactly the same rise happened to Modric the season after I got his kit in 08 (so Ndombele is definitely going to Real in the future lol)

[Doolallyfrank]

Tuchel it is for Chelsea. Good coach with poor man-mangement skills, and has a penchant for clashing with the owners. I wonder how much this decision was driven by wanting to get the best out of Werner and Harvertz.


I don't think anything will improve, Tuchel isn't the answer

[Darth Wish]

West Ham have just gone into 4th place!
Moyes is doing a good job there.
I wonder what the odds were on both the Hammers and the Foxes finishing above Liverpool was at the beginning of the season? :D

[Golgot]

Ndombele was my choice for name and number on my shirt last season, exactly the same rise happened to Modric the season after I got his kit in 08 (so Ndombele is definitely going to Real in the future lol)

If you'd opted for a retro Bale nod that would have been something else ;)

[hell_storm2004]

Last night bwas embarrassing for us. And Pool won tonight. :mad:

[Golgot]

I'm always making lemonade, so I'll just say that seeing Ndombele juggle the ball back towards himself tight on the wing in the 70th minute, and slip his markers with a burst (yet agaiinnn), was just so grand to see. He had a stormer. Hojbjerg just an absolute moralising 'never give up' machine in the middle.

Rodon was grand for everything except the goal...

I'm increasingly not that sold on Doherty. He's tidy enough at the back, but he doesn't bring that much going forward. (And looks generally a bit exhausted). And I can't help but see Bergwijn as a weak link up front. His tracking back adds a real solidity to the team (in a way GB doesn't for example), and he makes gaps for others with his movement, but so many fluid moves break down when the ball reaches him, and it has become all too noticeable.

Great match with neutral eyes over all. Zapped all over the place. (And no bad thing to see the Liverpool front 3 looking deadly again).

Kinda knew when Lamela was part of the upfront reinforcement that we weren't going to have enough magic to tip the balance. (But can't really complain about injuries when Liverpool are missing their entire central defence ;))

Oh, and VAR needs an 'if you can't decide if it's off side after 5 seconds it's not offside' rule ;)

[Darth Wish]

Spurs will struggle up front now Kane is out for a while.
Son needs someone to step up and help out with the goal scoring, if only Bale would show some appetite for putting a shift in. :rolleyes:

Liverpool may well need to dip into the transfer market what with Matip getting injured again, that guy is becoming Pool's Darren Anderton.

At least this latest crop of results has maintained the uncertainty as to who will win the league and make the top four for a place in the UCL.

[WrinkledMind]

Golgot
Yep, it was actually a good match to watch. Especially the first half.
Agree on Lamela. Did he even touch the ball once he came on? I don't remember.
Rodon actually had a good match, apart from that one mistake.
Hojbjerg kinda reminded me of what Essien did for Mourinho's Chelsea. A bit of muscle and industry in the middle, good at interceptions and a neat goal.


The key for us was shifting Thiago forward. In the past few matches he has played as the 6, and was busy with defending. Yesterday with Gini and Milly defending, Thiago played like an eight, and that meant better distribution of the ball(creatively).


Darth Wish
Edwards' always has a fixed list of players and he rarely diverged from that.
We desperately need a CB. Though it might be a loan from somewhere.

[Golgot]

The key for us was shifting Thiago forward. In the past few matches he has played as the 6, and was busy with defending. Yesterday with Gini and Milly defending, Thiago played like an eight, and that meant better distribution of the ball(creatively).

Yeah he's got that endless calm about him, so rarely puts a boot wrong. Was very worrying to see him angling his way forward and finding the passes. (I thought he has going to get drawn into one dumb tackle too many in that crazy first 20 mins, chasing shadows a bit looking for a turnover, but after that he just went all imperious ;))

[Chypmunk]

Disappointed that we are now officially a worse team than Sheffield United :(
0-0 ffs :D

[Golgot]

Not sure that Spurs game gave us even a lemon to juice...

Alderweireld’s bloodied save was good.

Erm, Sissoko can do a job in any position, except striker

Ndombele can beat three guys even on a bad day. And takes his knocks.

No bad **** happens in the vicinity of Ben Davis... Ok yep, I’m out :D

[WrinkledMind]

Ben Davies for 2 mil.
More importantly Kabak on loan with an option to buy for 18 mil (but no obligation).
Michael Edwards continues to impress in the transfer market.
But I think the club's hand was forced with Matip's injury.

[honeykid]

This has been such a weird year. United are equalling and breaking records with a team I don't think even the most ardent United fan would consider a great team. Average with potential is how I think of them, but it's difficult to argue with results.

There's been so much to talk about the last week or so, but my neck is restricting how much I can type.

[WrinkledMind]

Yep, a truly weird year. No team is settling and being consistent. Well, City can claim to be that, but I won't be surprised if they drop points tonight or in the near future.


Apart from maybe At. Madrid in La Liga and Gerrard's Rangers, I don't see consistent performances from other leagues. Unless I have missed someone.

[Darth Wish]

Some of the decisions made in last nights games were ridiculous.

David Luiz's sending off was a complete farce.
Che Adams disallowed goal just beggars belief.
Jan Bednarek's sending off was referee Mike Dean being a complete ass, he loves being the centre of attention.

The offside rule needs changing, you can't score with your arm so why should a player be offside from one!

I miss the seventies, eighties and nineties when football was a contact sport and players only went down when hacked down by the likes of Jack Charlton, Graeme Souness, Vinnie Jones and Roy Keane.
They only have to feel an opposing players breath on their necks to fall over like they have been taken out by a sniper these days! :(

[WrinkledMind]

I had already given up on the title this season after the defeat against Burnley. But last night confirmed it. I just hope we don't get battered on the weekend.


We really look mentally and physically drained.

[Darth Wish]

I had already given up on the title this season after the defeat against Burnley. But last night confirmed it. I just hope we don't get battered on the weekend.


We really look mentally and physically drained.

Liverpool and Southampton have the same problem, a big injury list.
If Man City continue playing as they have been I can't see the title going anywhere else.

I thought Jordan Henderson's statement on the racism situation was spot on.
Some of these pathetic trolls need a good slapping.

[WrinkledMind]

Henderson has been amazing on and off the pitch. A proper captain. You can't deny that players today are coached by club's PR agents, but still he puts in loads of effort and has been a good example as a player and ambassador for the club.

[WrinkledMind]

Go write a ****ing book on how not to defend a title.
****ing mind boggling stuff.


Choose to go into a crazy jam packed season like this with only 3 senior CBs. Not sign any defender despite losing 2 of those to season long injuries, despite the third being injury prone. Only rush to sign CBs on the last couple of days of the Jan transfer window, when your last remaining CB gets a season ending injury.


Force your best DM to play in the defence, disrupting the balance of the side. Force your tempo setting midfielder to partner him in the defence, further ruining the side.


Parcel your hardworking forward to another club over a log (Origi).
Just ****ing shambolic.
We have taken 9 points of the possible 27. I won't be surprised if we miss out on the top four.


The signs were there to see after the restart. They were there to see at the start of this season.




This is where the likes of Fergie and Paisley were special. They constantly freshened up things even when they were at the top.

[Darth Wish]

Let's hope tonights FA Cup match is more entertaining than last nights load of stagnant dishwater.
West Ham had a ten man defensive wall and Man Utd were just lost for ideas on how to deal with it.
I've never seen so many passes go astray, this game must hold the record for throw ins.
The second half was slightly better but I still feel like I wasted two hours of prime viewing time on this tedious pile of garbage.
Best action of the night was seeing Ian Wright get ignored when he waved to the West ham players.

[WrinkledMind]

Let's hope tonights FA Cup match is more entertaining than last nights load of stagnant dishwater.
West Ham had a ten man defensive wall and Man Utd were just lost for ideas on how to deal with it.
I've never seen so many passes go astray, this game must hold the record for throw ins.
The second half was slightly better but I still feel like I wasted two hours of prime viewing time on this tedious pile of garbage.
Best action of the night was seeing Ian Wright get ignored when he waved to the West ham players.


Hilarious, yes.
https://twitter.com/BBCMOTD/status/1359269305007890432



Pretty hard to dislike Wright.

[honeykid]

Yes it was terrible, but we're through and that's all that really matters with Cup football. It does show the paucity of United squad though and is a great example of why we won't win the league this year. OK, I know very few do actually think that, but the media have to create a narrative and as Liverpool and the rest are currently nowhere near City, it's been laid at United's feet to provide 'the challenge'. Two or three good buys in the summer though and there might be a genuine challenge next season. Of course, we might have to replace a couple of current first teamers (Pogba and Martial), so that might not be the case. Also we'll have to see what happens with Donny and Amad Diallo. If Donny can find a place in the team and Ole finds the right way to use him, that could be a good fix. Diallo is ripping it up in the reserves/under 23's but he's young and there's still a step up to first team regular. I would like a proper fix for the right wing though. It's been like this since Valencia was moved to right back.

[Darth Wish]

I think that is why they are keeping tabs on Sancho.
It looks like Borussia Dortmund might be selling a fair chunk of their first team in the summer with Sancho and Haaland purported to be on the list.

[Darth Wish]

Well last nights FA Cup game between Sheffield Utd and Bristol City was worse than the Man Utd v West Ham game!

Only players putting any effort in to earning their wage were Billy Sharp and Dave McGoldrick.

Chelsea v Barnsley tonight, third time lucky maybe? :rolleyes:

[WrinkledMind]

Well last nights FA Cup game between Sheffield Utd and Bristol City was worse than the Man Utd v West Ham game!

Only players putting any effort in to earning their wage were Billy Sharp and Dave McGoldrick.

Chelsea v Barnsley tonight, third time lucky maybe? :rolleyes:


Also Brewster. Crazy drop of form since his serious injury (when he was with us), which also kinda justifies Klopp selling him despite much of our fanbase being against it. But it's nice to see him still getting loads of support from the Sheffield United fans.


And, you should have watched the Everton Spurs match instead. Good fun.

[honeykid]

Yes, the Everton/Spurs match was a classic FA Cup match.

I don't know if Dortmund need a new team as much as a new coach. But maybe it's just the end of this cycle for the team? A similar thing is happening at Liverpool, I think, though in that case I would be looking to move players on and bring in new blood.

[Darth Wish]

Liverpool will need to refresh in midfield, Henderson and Thiago aren't getting any younger and Keita hasn't lived up to his reputation.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them make another move for Upemecano to go alongside VVK either.

[WrinkledMind]

Upamecano's agent is gonna have field day in the summer. I can't imagine the money that will be thrown at him, and I doubt we will match it. He would be a great signing, but now it depends on how Kabak plays in the next few months.


As for the midfield, I still have hopes for Kieta. Look what happened with Gundogan. Had his share of injuries initially and has now come through. Kieta is quality. Worth waiting for him.


The midfielders I expect leaving would be Gini (would be a miss) and Ox(who hasn't done a lot after this decent show in the first season in UCL). Curtis Jones has already taken up one place though.

[honeykid]

Could well do. He's going somewhere this summer, I'd bet. Still think we should've done the deal in the past summer transfer window and just paid the premium. Kounde at Sevilla sounds like a quality younger defender, too. I've seen him play even less than Upemecano though, but those in the know seem to be pointing at those two as good potential targets for big spending clubs this summer.

I think Henderson is fine in midfield, it's just that he's not being played there. I'd be looking to move on at least one of the front 3 (Salah or Firmino or both). A settled and strong midfield protecting a defense with VVD and A.N. Other (a new defender or one of the younger ones) should stop a lot of Liverpool's current problems and mean that the wing backs can concentrate on going forwards (which is their strength as neither are great defenders, especially TAA) and a refreshed front 3 should get them looking more like the team of the last 2 years. but I don't think it'll get them back to their best, as that requires legs and I think that rebuilding is a different skill to creating a great team. That's Klopp's task and he'll need his boards backing.

[Golgot]

Great game against Everton. Hard to feel bad about losing one of those. 3 of their goals were absolute class. (The penalty was super soft, which is a bit annoying, but think karma woulda handed them pens anyway ;))

Don’t think we’ll topple Man City’s winning run on sat, but I’ll take a touch more drama like that ;)

[Darth Wish]

Klopp should look to move Gomez to RB and play TAA as a winger.
They could do worse than try and prise James Ward Prowse away from Southampton.
He works hard, can play wing back/holding MF and is the best in the EPL, if not the world, in dead ball situations.

Apparently things are not all rosy at Spurs.
Some rumblings from senior players about Mourinho and fans not overly excited by his style of play.

Concussion subs now in play though so something positive happening. :)

[WrinkledMind]

Klopp should look to move Gomez to RB and play TAA as a winger.
They could do worse than try and prise James Ward Prowse away from Southampton.
He works hard, can play wing back/holding MF and is the best in the EPL, if not the world, in dead ball situations.

Moving an injury prone player at FB. Nope. Everytime he has played at FB, he has done well but got injured. Klopp demands a lot of the fullbacks. Besides Gomez has been brilliant when played alongside Virgil in the centre. I wouldn't want Gomez on the side, even if he is defensively a massive upgrade on Trent.


You are correct about Trent in midfield. He was a midfielder for under 18s and U23s. But I would keep him at FB. Once we get the likes of Hendo and Fabinho back in the midfield, our FBs will be covered better.



I wouldn't mind Ward Prowse (another player from Southampton! ). Personally though I would love us to sign Todd Cantwell. I don't know what kind of season he is having this term, cause I don't follow Championship. But when Norwich were in the Premier league, he looked special. Reminds me of Lallana sometimes. And he would be an ideal replacement for Gini.

[WrinkledMind]

And Bayern Munich have snapped Upamecano.

[WrinkledMind]

This is how Chelsea defend their titles. I have gone past anger now, and I am laughing here. We dominated the game, and then made massive blunders.


Irrespective of that blunder for the Vardy goal, having a proper centre-back (Kabak) in the defence noticeably improved our fullbacks. The only positive there.


Thiago is no Xabi Alonso. Shouldn't expect him to be a DM. Play one of Philips or Davies with Kabak. Shift Hendo and Fabinho in midfield. Top 4 a proper challenge now. Fair play to Leicester. They took their chances.

[Darth Wish]

They need to do something or it could be another 30 years before they win the title again. :D

[WrinkledMind]

Wenger brilliantly explaining the issues with our side.


https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1360600494742323206

[Darth Wish]

At least you Liverpool fans can feel better today, Fulham just beat Everton 2-0 at Goodison Park.🙂

[WrinkledMind]

At least you Liverpool fans can feel better today, Fulham just beat Everton 2-0 at Goodison Park.🙂


And United dropped points. The petty man in me doesn't mind that.


On a side note, nice to see Maja get those goals. I remember him from the Sunderland documentary.

[Doolallyfrank]

Great game against Everton. Hard to feel bad about losing one of those. 3 of their goals were absolute class. (The penalty was super soft, which is a bit annoying, but think karma woulda handed them pens anyway ;))

Don’t think we’ll topple Man City’s winning run on sat, but I’ll take a touch more drama like that ;)


We lost but I was entertained, rather have this feeling than after the Brighton/Chelsea/Liverpool games

[Darth Wish]

If West Ham keep up their run David Moyes looks a likely contender for manager of the season.
It is nice to see managers who were discarded by the bigger clubs doing well elsewhere proving they were good enough but weren't given time to show it.

Brendan Rodgers and David Moyes have done excellent jobs at their clubs and since Man Utd have given OGS time he has shown he can manage a top club.
People need to take Man City out of the equation when looking at the league, their squad and the money available to Pep will always make it hard for the other teams to compete against them.
OGS does need to replace Martial in my opinion, he is too inconsistent and he needs a calm head in the defence.

[honeykid]

I agree about Moyes, but WHU's, lack of pedigree and a striker leads me to think that's unlikely. However, if there was ever to be a season where they finish top 4, this could well be it.

The odd thing about this lack of form for United is that we're still picking up points and a few of them have been wins too. It's not been like that for years, so while it's annoying to see us struggle or only play for 10 minutes here and there, there's only been one unexpected loss this year. And even that wasn't really a surprise considerin how the game went and the opposition (Sheffield United).

Still not convinced with Ole's tactics and selections against teams like Sheffield United (though the Arsenal game a few days later might've had something to do with that), Fulham or West Brom but he sees them in training and knows where they are.

[WrinkledMind]

Agree on Brendan Rodgers. The spell at Celtic has improved him a lot. I see him managing a bigger side in the future, with all due respect Leicester who themselves are a well run club.


As for Ole, I wonder how much of United's good run is down to Bruno Fernandes honeykid ? He has been an amazing signing.
I see similar example in Suarez who was largely responsible for our title challenge under Rodgers. After his departure, Rodgers really struggled with his tactics.

[Darth Wish]

WHU's lack of pedigree, one could say the same about the 2016 Leicester team. :)

Man City have got the title in the bag it is the fight for the remaining three positions for UCL spots that is going to go down to the wire if the inconsist form from the rest continues.

[honeykid]

As for Ole, I wonder how much of United's good run is down to Bruno Fernandes honeykid ? He has been an amazing signing.

I see similar example in Suarez who was largely responsible for our title challenge under Rodgers. After his departure, Rodgers really struggled with his tactics.
He's the catalyst for it. Finally there was a leader in the pack who was prepared to lead. Allied with the fact that he's a superb player who looks to play forward and can score goals from midfield (something which most of the best United teams have had in common going back to the 50's at least) and you had a perfect United player. We got lucky with him because he was coming in the summer, but Ed (as usual) didn't want to pay the price. If Levy had, we'd have missed out. As usual, I think we ended up paying a little more than we originally declined. There's that Ed Woodward savvy again.

That's not to say Ole's played no part. While I don't think he's a tactical genius and I sometimes question his selections, he has put the foundations down for a traditional United team and bought well so far. If allowed to continue he might develop into someone who deserves the job on merit.

Although I still think Pogba will (and should) go, I think Bruno's desire to take the lead role has lessened the pressure on him. You'd think for a World Cup winner in his late 20's that wouldn't be an issue, but I genuinely believe it is.

I don't think United are tough enough mentally to genuinely challenge for the title. Yet alone win it and that's why a trophy this season of any kind could be so important. A team, especially a team with a lot of young players, needs to prove to themselves that they can win things. I don't know if it's a thing yet in the players minds, but after 4 semi defeats in 2 seasons I'm sure they'll need to do it quickly before the pressure becomes too much and the odds get longer and longer that they'll do it. It also undermines Ole, as he's yet to get to a final yet either.

We really need a proper finisher. I love Rashford, but he's very much 'young Henry' atm. Great coming in from the left, but wants to play through the middle and, on most showings, shows why he shouldn't. The more he learns from Cavani the better, (ditto Greenwood, but he's got years in the bank) but we could do with a real forward there. We should be doing absolutely everything to get Haarland this summer. Pay the moon, promise the stars. Whatever it takes. He reminds me of RVN in front of goal and I can't pay a higher compliment than that. If he decides to go elsewhere (and I think he will) so be it. But don't let it be because the richest club in the world didn't make the offer.

WHU's lack of pedigree, one could say the same about the 2016 Leicester team. :)

Absolutely. And I did. :D As I've said many, many times, I think football exists to make fools out of those of us who try to predict it.

[Golgot]

Possibly not against Prem-standard, but nice to see Spurs flowing again. Good to see some Gareth glimpses (2m35s) (https://bit.ly/3ubQzkh) ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90uZG673lJk&t=2m35s

The Moura moment was probably the outright highlight, but good to see Dele back-heeling and nutmegging and box-dashing effectively and confidently too :)

[Darth Wish]

Well after this latest loss, this time to their neighbours, Liverpool are well and truly out of the running for the title.
I truly think they might struggle to make the top six the way things are going.
Not only missing VVD and Jota they seem to have lost the task of putting the ball in the net.
There might well be some comings and goings during the summer that many wouldn't have thought could happen after last seasons performance.

Liverpool 0-2 Everton

[WrinkledMind]

My thoughts on this season.


https://media1.tenor.com/images/b0de62dd155d963df7b23abf635fd659/tenor.gif

[honeykid]

Just remember the two seasons of almost flawless football you had without any major injuries. Liverpool fans have baulked at being told they'd been lucky with injuries over the last few seasons and that, with just one or two bad ones they could be in a bit of trouble. They got away with it early last season when Adrian came in for a few weeks and made some fantastic saves which won games for them and started the momentum which became unstoppable up until Covid19 interrupted things. Although, looking back, you can see things are just beginning to slow before that enforced break as the effort required and the sated hunger of two fat years started to take their toll. Roll forward to this season and without a proper pre season and some new faces those two things were already showing more and more. Remember VVD was in the side which lost 7-2 to Villa. That was a 'proper' Liverpool team. Still just a one-off I accept, but I never thought Liverpool would win the title this year, just because history shows it's very difficult to win back to back titles. Psychologically most players don't play as hard as they did because they've won something. Achieved their dreams. With a league and a CL title in the bag, what's the little boy inside dreaming of? Players get used to the same voice in the dressing room. That's why I always think the best managers (or at least, the ones I respect the most) are the ones which make and then rebuild a successful side. That's not a slight at Klopp, he hasn't shown whether he can do that or not yet and if, in the next season or two, he manages to do it, I'll respect him even more than I already do.

[Doolallyfrank]

It's times like this I wish I could write an 18+ post about how Mourinho is a fornicating poop-Cbomb

[WrinkledMind]

honeykid
Yep, hence I stated couple of weeks ago. Paisley and Fergie were best because they constantly refreshed their squads, even when their teams where on the top.

[Golgot]

I dunno if it’s having spent so long with Spurs as a 'top 8 if we’re lucky, let’s have an end to end game' side, but I enjoyed that West Ham game :D

Granted they just packed the middle after the lucky start, so it wasn’t a back’n forth, but I think it was just the endeavour til the end that I liked. (An assist for Gaz and near-classic crossbar stunner helped too though ;))


EDIT: I'll almost guarantee Jose's 'My staff are world beaters, but we can't fix this team' comments are 50% about Dele. Because he lost the ball in midfield with a half-trick again ;). These sins do not get forgiven...

(Honestly the fricking arrogance on this guy though. He'd be topping the table if it weren't for this pesky team of cut-price superstars ;))

[honeykid]

For those who didn't see the game, don't be fooled by the scoreline against Newcastle. The first half was terrible, the goal came against the run of play and Newcastle would've been hard done by to go in anything less than level. They started the second half well too, but did look to tire after an hour or so. The second United goal doing the damage to their confidence I suspect.

That said, that's not unusual for this United team, to look tired/leggy in the first half and have to get that out of their systems for the second. Don't get me wrong, we derserved to win, but we're still not in good form.

Also, Martial has to go this summer, surely? I know I'd lost patience with him by 2019 and would've sold him that summer, only for him to have his best season to date and really show up last season. But he's back to what he was now and I'll go back to what I said so long ago; we can't have a player who has eight good games a season at United. Let alone leading the line which, for reasons only known to himself, is the kind of player he thinks he is, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Looking forward to seeing a bit more of the young subs this Thursday. Maybe a front three of Shoretire/Greenwood/Amad in the second half if things are still good?

[Darth Wish]

Well Leicester going out of the Europa League last night was a bit of a surprise.
Arsenal scraped through thanks to Aubamayang.
Man Utd introduced Shoretire to european football in a 0-0 goalfest!
Rangers seemed to be the only British team wanting to do it in style last night.
The draw should be interesting and we shall have a better idea of who might make it through to the next round after it.

[Golgot]

Hey, talking of doing it in style...

Wolfsberger may have been the lowest seed left, but they certainly gave us a much needed confidence boost ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQBu51kZFtI

Dele in full pomp, and a Roy of the Rovers finish from Gareth? All good :)

Now if only we could carry some of this Euro momentum into Prem results...

[Golgot]

Ok it was only a stunned and out-of-sorts Burnley... but still, that was fun :D

https://twitter.com/cartilagefree/status/1366071841832501251

[Darth Wish]

Bale was outstanding.
Jose spent the second half with a silly grin on his face.
Son, Kane, Bale has to be the best front three in the Premier League at this time.
If he could work it so Alli and Moura play as well then they might just beat Man City in the Carabao Cup.

[Golgot]

Bale was outstanding.
Jose spent the second half with a silly grin on his face.
Son, Kane, Bale has to be the best front three in the Premier League at this time.
If he could work it so Alli and Moura play as well then they might just beat Man City in the Carabao Cup.

Yeah seeing that Jose grin just added to the surrealness ;)

Yeah in full swashbuckle mode we do look quality upfront. (Having Ndombele driving the breaks, and 2 fast wing backs in support help loads too though. Really gave them nightmares on who to track.)

I'm not sure there's a world where that 5 could play together (you'd probably have to drop Dele back too far away from his best positions), but having some depth on the bench is all good. Bale still won't be doing 90mins every match (if they're going to start him regularly now), so with Lo Celso coming back too there's good back up for us playing a high tempo breaks game.

But right now, yeah, would love to see a Son - Harry - Bale front 3 for sure :)

[Darth Wish]

Lloris
Doherty....Alderweireld....Reguilon
Ndombele...Hjobjerg
Bale....Moura....Alli....Son
Kane

Alli can drop back as and when required
I chose Doherty over Aurier because I think he is a better defender
What do you think?

[Golgot]

Lloris
Doherty....Alderweireld....Reguilon
Ndombele...Hjobjerg
Bale....Moura....Alli....Son
Kane

Alli can drop back as and when required
I chose Doherty over Aurier because I think he is a better defender
What do you think?


I’d like to see it happen, but I can’t see Mouh not having 3 big lumps in a back 3. (Ben Davis tops, and he’d be tasked to stay back still). And I’d still fear Dele not bringing the magic when that deep, and I think he’d have to drop a fair bit.

If we ever decided to go full shock and awe, that’d be the way though ;)

(PS yeah I do think Doherty is more solid at the back, and better for that system. Aurier is still kinda my fave of the two at the mo overall though, purely for his energy up front, and since he got over his red mist first season ;). Doc has been linking up neatly with Bale recently though, so that has been an interesting partnership. Think they can both complement him in the current system. Aurier drawing players, Doc giving him a safe platform.)

[Darth Wish]

I watched a You Tube vid earlier where Roy Keane upset Jamie Redknapp by calling Spurs average and without Son and Kane they'd be nowhere near the top of the table.
I posted on the vid asking him who beat Man Utd 6-1 earlier in the season, who is playing Man City in the EFL Cup and he was just a thug on the pitch and a bully in the TV studio.
I'd have Ndombele in my team over Keane any day of the week.

[Golgot]

I watched a You Tube vid earlier where Roy Keane upset Jamie Redknapp by calling Spurs average and without Son and Kane they'd be nowhere near the top of the table.
I posted on the vid asking him who beat Man Utd 6-1 earlier in the season, who is playing Man City in the EFL Cup and he was just a thug on the pitch and a bully in the TV studio.
I'd have Ndombele in my team over Keane any day of the week.

Ach yeah, he's just studs up all the time, even in the pundit chair. He got owned by the result ;)

Even then he essentially sat there reciting the "Lads, it's Tottenham" mantra to himself, rocking slightly, insisting we're still just slender showboaters ;)

[Darth Wish]

Back in the late 70s early 80s I trained with Havant Town before they merged with Waterlooville.
They're the ones who made Liverpool sweat in the 2008 FA Cup.
Well they had a couple of players then who would have kicked the life out of Keane.
He wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes back in the 70s.
He was overrated and only won stuff because of the players around him.
He isn't worthy of polishing Bale's boots. :D

[Doolallyfrank]

I watched a You Tube vid earlier where Roy Keane upset Jamie Redknapp by calling Spurs average and without Son and Kane they'd be nowhere near the top of the table.
I posted on the vid asking him who beat Man Utd 6-1 earlier in the season, who is playing Man City in the EFL Cup and he was just a thug on the pitch and a bully in the TV studio.
I'd have Ndombele in my team over Keane any day of the week.


That was pretty funny tbh

[honeykid]

Where's that neg rep button gone? ;)

Seriously though, Keane was an oustanding player and could've played anytime.... Except now. :D

As for Spurs and Bale...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bc/e8/7f/bce87ff514e316481f963834c4c5eabb.png

[Darth Wish]

Where's that neg rep button gone? ;)

Seriously though, Keane was an oustanding player and could've played anytime.... Except now. :D

As for Spurs and Bale...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bc/e8/7f/bce87ff514e316481f963834c4c5eabb.png

:eek::eek::eek:

All I have to say to you is....6-1, 6-1, 6-1, 6-1 :p

[Golgot]

Where's that neg rep button gone? ;)

Seriously though, Keane was an oustanding player and could've played anytime.... Except now. :D

As for Spurs and Bale...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bc/e8/7f/bce87ff514e316481f963834c4c5eabb.png

Oh hell yeah, no worries, I’m just enjoying the flashes of pomp ;)

If we were to drag ourselves out of this slump and get something out of the season (to keep our bigger names on the bandwagon), or at least see it out in style, that’d be fine by me though ;)

—-

Talking of lesser names though, loved Mourinho’s description (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/56287529) of what Lamela brings: "wild, disorganised intensity". It’s a great description of our deranged Argentinian peacock :D

[Golgot]

Oh and talking of slumps... there’s that final whistle :/

Fulham totally deserved a point against us midweek. So solid, and they do have threat upfront with Lookman, Loftus-Cheek etc.

It’s kinda sad to see Liverpool crash like this. In part because it’s so obviously due to not having the bench that billions bring.

But hey, at least Leicester are still going mad guns ;)

[Golgot]

As for Spurs and Bale...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bc/e8/7f/bce87ff514e316481f963834c4c5eabb.png

Ok it’s 9pm, how about now? :D

In fairness Harry was the one having a pomp and glory moment, but watching the pair of them spraying passes around the park (and linking up for the goals) was grand :)

Moura must have some top turnover stats for the last 5 games too. Little guy is on fire!

[Darth Wish]

Well I don't think Klopp is going to be on the shortlist for manager of the year. :D

My choices (this may change as the season draws to a close)

Pep Guardiola
Brendan Rodgers
David Moyes
OGS
and if Fulham manage the great escape Scott Parker


As for player of the year

Ilkay Gundogan
Luke Shaw
Harvey Barnes
Emiliano Martinez
Jack Grealish
Phil Foden
Mason Mount
Tomas Soucek

A special award for Alexander Lacazette for loudest scream of the season after being tripped by a blade of grass.

Miss of the season, Saiss of Wolverhampton Wanderers for putting the ball over the crossbar from 1 yard out.

Worst Refferee of the year goes to Lee Mason for the Brighton free kick farce.

And finally, worst penalty taker of the year is shared between Ademola Lookman and Ivan Cavaleiro of Fulham for their sheer incompetence from the spot.

[honeykid]

It’s kinda sad to see Liverpool crash like this. In part because it’s so obviously due to not having the bench that billions bring.
Is it though? :D Although I do kind of see it in a 'once proud powerhouse getting kicked about by everyone' kind of way. I bit like a boxer who's gone a fight or two too many and keeps taking fights and getting a beating by someone who really isn't in their class.

Ok it’s 9pm, how about now? :D

In fairness Harry was the one having a pomp and glory moment, but watching the pair of them spraying passes around the park (and linking up for the goals) was grand :)
That was a great display and I don't want to disparage Spurs or Bale, it just seemed as if the Spurs boys were getting a little high over a good performance over a bad Burnley. Burnley are a good team, tough to beat... Except when they're not. And then they're really poor. The other two have been Palace and Wolfberger.


As for player of the year

Ilkay Gundogan
Luke Shaw
Harvey Barnes
Emiliano Martinez
Jack Grealish
Phil Foden
Mason Mount
Tomas Soucek


I have to say I'm surprised not to see Dias or Fernandes there. For my money they're the two players of the year and their performances intergral to where they're teams are in the league. Unless you're looking for more of a dark horse player? Not that they're not good players or don't deserve a mention, but for me it's really between the two I mentioned.

Question for the Spurs fans (and anyone else of course) is this Jose now that Bale is fit and he thinks he can produce for Spurs? Or is it now that the league has gone and, probably, a top four finish, Jose allowing Spurs to play like this because why not as he/they have nothing to lose?

[Darth Wish]

Well I don't think Klopp is going to be on the shortlist for manager of the year. :D

My choices (this may change as the season draws to a close)

Pep Guardiola
Brendan Rodgers
David Moyes
OGS
and if Fulham manage the great escape Scott Parker


As for player of the year

Ilkay Gundogan
Luke Shaw
Harvey Barnes
Emiliano Martinez
Jack Grealish
Phil Foden
Mason Mount
Tomas Soucek

A special award for Alexander Lacazette for loudest scream of the season after being tripped by a blade of grass.

Miss of the season, Saiss of Wolverhampton Wanderers for putting the ball over the crossbar from 1 yard out.

Worst Refferee of the year goes to Lee Mason for the Brighton free kick farce.

And finally, worst penalty taker of the year is shared between Ademola Lookman and Ivan Cavaleiro of Fulham for their sheer incompetence from the spot.


I have to say I'm surprised not to see Dias or Fernandes there. For my money they're the two players of the year and their performances intergral to where they're teams are in the league. Unless you're looking for more of a dark horse player? Not that they're not good players or don't deserve a mention, but for me it's really between the two I mentioned.



Dias has had a good season but no better than Stones, Keane, Fofana etc.
Fernandes has had an outstanding season here and there but does tend to disappear in big games.
Gundogan has had an excellent season and his goals and effort have been a big reason City are on top of the table.
Shaw is probably the most improved player in the prem and deserves to be on the list.
Harvey Barnes has been as consistent as anyone this season and another scoring more goals than in previous seasons.
Martinez is the standout keeper this season so far.
Grealish has dragged Villa up the league while playing some excellent football.
Foden has been awesome and I expect him in the running for young player of the year.
Same goes for Mason Mount, Chelseas best player this season.
Soucek has been a revelation, goals, excellent defensive work and puts himself in where others fear to tread.

I fully expect Fernandes to be on the list along with Kane but I'd like to see one of those mentioned win it. :)

[Golgot]

That was a great display and I don't want to disparage Spurs or Bale, it just seemed as if the Spurs boys were getting a little high over a good performance over a bad Burnley. Burnley are a good team, tough to beat... Except when they're not. And then they're really poor. The other two have been Palace and Wolfberger.

Oh yeah I'm still just enjoying the verve and ignoring the flakey opposition :D

(Burnley just never recovered from the early goal, totally different team from the human-borg-shield we played last time. And Crystal Palace have more psychodrama going on than a Brazilian soap opera...)

Arsenal should be a fun test though ;)

Question for the Spurs fans (and anyone else of course) is this Jose now that Bale is fit and he thinks he can produce for Spurs? Or is it now that the league has gone and, probably, a top four finish, Jose allowing Spurs to play like this because why not as he/they have nothing to lose?

I don't feel like he's radically changed formation, or the attempt at the press, or the attacking weighting to the front of the team, anything like that. I'd say an important thing that's changed is that both Bale and Kane stepped into some form (Bale in general, and Kane warming up again after injury).

The team in general has had their head high the whole time, I think stuff's just clicked a bit, with goals at the end of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(There's something to be said for breaks feeling 'dangerous', even if they don't pay off. They just sow that extra doubt in the opposition. I feel like we've had that vibe in the last few games, and it's given us that extra 5% across the park.)

[neiba]

Still can't believe that match... Beating Juve like that looks so unreal! Proud of the boys :)

[honeykid]

Well if you were going to do it, it would be this season. Juve are poor and not well managed. Pirlo might become a world class manager, but atm he's mismanaging a team which is/was already at the end of a cycle and an expensive Ronaldo who arrived a season too late IMO and now doesn't really fit.

That's not to play down beating them. That Juve team still should've been enough to beat this Porto team.

[neiba]

Well if you were going to do it, it would be this season. Juve are poor and not well managed. Pirlo might become a world class manager, but atm he's mismanaging a team which is/was already at the end of a cycle and an expensive Ronaldo who arrived a season too late IMO and now doesn't really fit.

That's not to play down beating them. That Juve team still should've been enough to beat this Porto team.

Yes! Funnily enough, it was on the 17th anniversary of a little match you might remember! And Porto's second goal was born from pretty much the same exact place of the field! :p And Ronaldo was also playing 17 years ago.
March 9th is surely a good day for Porto and not a good one for Ronaldo :p

[honeykid]

Not really sure what to think about last night. Lucky to get a draw considering how poor we were in the first half and a goal which I really don't understand how it came to be disallowed. Or unlucky to not win by a goal or two, considering the chances James and Maguire had and that we lost an injury time equalizer thanks to some poor defending and a mistake by the keeper?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VizDotkOdCc

[Darth Wish]

For those of you who can receive BBC 1 the Southampton v Brighton game is live on it tomorrow from 11.45am. :)

[Darth Wish]

Man Utd were woeful, Leicester deserved winners.
Chelsea weren't great versus Sheff Utd, a terrible game to watch.

Semi Finals FA Cup

Southampton V Leicester

Chelsea V Man City

[honeykid]

Man Utd were woeful, Leicester deserved winners.

Quoted for truth.

I could go on a rant about how poor we were and why, but I've pretty much said it all before and I know it isn't going to change any time soon, so I'll just continue to watch United become Arsenal over the next 5 years or so.

That said, one thing; why was Fred back on for the second half?

[Darth Wish]

Quoted for truth.

I could go on a rant about how poor we were and why, but I've pretty much said it all before and I know it isn't going to change any time soon, so I'll just continue to watch United become Arsenal over the next 5 years or so.

That said, one thing; why was Fred back on for the second half?

I guess only OGS knows the answer to that question.

[neiba]

Hope that the clubs that are creating the Superleague are banned from any official competition while that joke lasts... Rich boys club, half of them with more money than titles!

[honeykid]

It's sad, but I'm not surprised at all. I've been expecting this since the late 90's and, tbh, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already. Covid made me sure about two things in football. One was that within a year or two we'd lose around 20 or more clubs and, in doing so, probably one of our professional leagues. Thankfully that one doesn't seem to be on the horizon atm, though there's still a long way to go. The second was that it'd be an ideal time for a Super League to be pushed as a real alternative, as it's virtually all TV/streaming revenue and no need for people in the stadium anyway. There does seem to be some division between thiose who say this is for real right now and those who expect it to happen eventually but think this current push is related to getting a better CL deal. I'm sure this will happen one day though. Football is no longer what it was, (the arguement for when it was can be had another day) the CL has deformed many of the European leagues, making them even less competitive.

I was fearing the Rollerball final and 'the death of football', but they're meeting in the semi's, so if you want 'football' to be the winner, you either have to hope for Real Madrid or Chelsea. Not exactly romantic options are they?

[Darth Wish]

Manchester City and Chelsea are withdrawing from the ESL.
It looks like it will fall flat on it's face.
Decent players won't want to play for any club in the ESL as not winning an FA Cup/Copa Del Rey etc is a dream they had as a kid along with playing for their national teams at wordl cups.
There is too much demand on teams what with the european competitions and their home grown ones especially in England.
The Champions Leuge should be that, the champions of their respective leagues.
English football needs to do away with the stupid play off system too, three down, three up, unfair on the team who finished third in a league to have to beat the sixth placed team especially when they finished miles ahead of them.

[Taz]

The other 4 English clubs have followed suite, joining ManC & Chelski in backing out. No word on the 3 Italian & 3 Spanish clubs as yet.

Interestingly, only Arsenal actually apologized to their fans etc, in their statement. But think there will be more backlash to come for all of these clubs. There was already a lot of resentment toward a number of them already anyhow, so this is only going to magnify that, and it's not like they already get massive financial incentives anyhow, and it's not like Sky, FA, UEFA & government etc are the good guys in all of this (as it was very much in their own self interest to keep things as is), but the brass neck on these super rich clubs to repeatedly cite the covid pandemic as a reason for why this was a necessary step is really beyond the pall, when so many clubs with far less resources are struggling at the best of times, let alone through this.

[Darth Wish]

Atletico Madrid and Barcelona are rumoured to be withdrawing and the whole thing is imploding.
The ESL hierachy underestimated the power of the players and the fans as club owners retreat from the whole idea, the dollar signs disappearing from their beady little eyes.
No one wants the American model of sport where no one gets relegated or promoted and plays the same old teams year in year out.
Now to sort out the farce that is VAR!

[neiba]

Glad that the project imploded so fast. UEFA had a good reaction for a change, and the fans were amazing.


I can't really understand owners and chairmen who make decisions without thinking about the fans. Every city, every fan base has a personality and a culture, how don't you want your club to represent that? If smaller clubs that do that have huge success, imagine clubs with virtually unlimited budgets.


As a result CL will become more elitist, more money to the same 5 or 6 teams, and it will be harder and harder for any team out of the big 5 to get past the quarter finals.
This edition in particular reunited the 4 more disgusting teams in the semis... Can't they all lose?

[Darth Wish]

Only Barca, Real Madrid and Juve left in the ESL!

Geez even Kerry Packer's cricket venture lasted longer than that. :D

[Golgot]

Yay, ESL collapsed and Mourinho mooched off. It’s turned into a good week :D

[Taz]

Only Barca, Real Madrid and Juve left in the ESL!

Geez even Kerry Packer's cricket venture lasted longer than that. :D


The difference is, Kerry Packer won. WSC not only fundamentally changed cricket for fans, players and broadcasters alike, and it's effects are felt to this day. And the WSC war only ended when the establishment had to come cap in hand to him, so to speak as they had lost in court and by the end of the second WSC season, on TV and in the attendances also.

[Darth Wish]

The difference is, Kerry Packer won. WSC not only fundamentally changed cricket for fans, players and broadcasters alike, and it's effects are felt to this day. And the WSC war only ended when the establishment had to come cap in hand to him, so to speak as they had lost in court and by the end of the second WSC season, on TV and in the attendances also.

Geez Bruce calm dowm mate.
I was only using Packer as a reference of breakaways that ultimately ended with the establishment still in control.
I'm taking it your boomerang hasn't come back or is your didgerydoo bunged up with spittle? :D

[honeykid]

The lack of organisation with this thing was/is incredible, the manner it which is fell apart and then watching it crumble was just funny. But it'll be back and, probably lesson learnt, better... Or more appeasing anyway. Barca, Real and Juve need this and Liverpool aren't far behind them either. United, City and Chelsea don't need it, but they're not going to turn down all that extra money. Arsenal and Spurs were just pleased to be asked. Atleti, Inter and AC Milan all want to make that jump and stop being seen as 'best of the rest' in their respective leagues (and Inter and AC's finances might not bear too close scrutiny) but will 'feel' as if they should be included. Especially given this season and their history. The financial model of ownership in Germany makes it more difficult for them, but don't think Bayern and Dortmund wouldn't jump at the chance if they thought they could get away with it.

Every other club who doesn't make the final cut (when it happens) has the same three options. How do we join it? How can we stop it? Can we adapt outside it?

[Darth Wish]

Liverpool would struggle in any Super League, They can't even beat Newcastle. :D

[honeykid]

Liverpool would struggle in any Super League, They can't even beat Newcastle. :D

Let's hope that continues this weekend. :D If we can play as we did in the second 45 minutes against Roma we should be able to put them away. If we play as we did in the first 45, we might need a 5 goal second 45 to win. :D

[Darth Wish]

Let's hope that continues this weekend. :D If we can play as we did in the second 45 minutes against Roma we should be able to put them away. If we play as we did in the first 45, we might need a 5 goal second 45 to win. :D

I think it might just end in a draw. :rolleyes:

[Golgot]

The Pochettino press was back at Spurs for an evening. I liked :)

(Look I know it was Sheffield but give me my little Bale glory nights alright? ;). Before everyone leaves in the Summer...)

[LordWhis]

I was expecting this thread to be about the american ****. I am pleasantly surprised.

Hot Take- The ESL is good actually and Papi Perez is a badass

[Darth Wish]

I think the ESL was a disaster waiting to happen.
Debt riddled clubs trying to generate more money to try and dig themselves out of the hole they are in.
UEFA are just as bad as they are only interested in the money they can generate.

If they want to run a club like that then they should sell up and buy an American franchise like Beckham (another one who could have invested in an English club but saw the $ signs!)

What happened at Old Trafford yesterday says it all about what the most important people in football think...The fans.

[honeykid]

The ESL is a disaster waiting to happen and, to repeat myself, it will unless things change radically as there's just too much money for it not to. DW is right, it's the fans which matter.... And there are plenty of them around to the world more than happy to make it work. Look at the fuss being kicked up by Real and Barca fans or the Italian clubs.... Oh, wait.

Also, Beckham hasn't got the money to buy into top flight English football. You need billionaires now and that's another reason why unless there's radical change, the ESL or whatever it ends up being called, must happen.

[honeykid]

Second legs were a bit of a letdown, weren't they? Real managed to play even worse than the first leg, while the lack of Mbappe meant City never really looked threatened. Then the usual PSG babies threw their toys out of their collective prams and cried that they couldn't beat an actual team. Happy for Tuchel though. He gets fired for not being able to get a few prima donnas to buy into his team ethic, then in few months takes over a young talented team and gets them to buy into what he wants and do whats asked of them to the final PSG want so badly. Also, while I'm not really into international football, the confidence it should give the young English players in that squad will only help should they get to latter stages of international competition.

Depsite all that, I'll settle for a boring 0-0 tonight just to make sure. :D

[honeykid]

Kane to City? Should we turn up next season? :D

[Golgot]

No they deserve Galacticos. They can have Bale ;)

[honeykid]

So he wants to stay in England (probably to break Shearer's record) and Spurs don't want to sell him to anyone here. We're in for a long summer, aren't we? :(

For once I think Levy should act in the best interests of the club and not the business. Sell him quick, get in a new manager and let him have the money and pre season to prepare the team for a top 4 run.....


...So we're all expecting a transfer deadline day transfer with Kane signing with an English team about 9pm?

And, while I'm not that bothered by international football, I am going to have to hear all about how this is affecting Kane and his performances at the Euro's. There are no upsides here. :mad:

[honeykid]

It's deja vu all over again. :(

[honeykid]

I know he'll never see this and it doesn't matter, but I just wanted to congratulate Thomas Tuchel and thank Chelsea for stopping City and Pep.

*In my best Jim Bowen voice* "C'mon PSG, let's look at what you coulda won"

The difference it makes when your owner wants the team to win was on show for all to see. I would say were you watching Glazers? But we all know they weren't. :mad:

[Golgot]

If Poch comes back to Spurs I expect we'll have the kitty to sign Berbs, Keane & Defo for up front...

Maybe Teddy & Jurgan on the bench?

(It's just retro mania in Spurs land at the mo ;))

[honeykid]

If Ronaldo comes back to United we might be doing the same. :D

[Chypmunk]

Terribly sad scenes in Copenhagen :(
Didn't look good and my heart goes out to Eriksen's family, friends, teammates and all those in the stadium.

[Taz]

Thoughts are with Christian Eriksen & his family. Hope that he pulls through. Just stunned that this sort of thing has happened again. Vividly remember when Phil O'Donnell died in similiar circumstances about 15 years ago and the complete shock that was felt and can only imagine how everyone around Eriksen, from freinds, teammates and above all his family must be in distress right now.



Please pull through.

[Chypmunk]

Good news being reported - Reuters say that he raised his hand as he was carried off. Hopefully that's true and he can make a full recovery.

[Taz]

UEFA just tweeted that he has been taken to hospital, but that his condition has stabilized, which is great news.

[Taz]

Thankfully Eriksen is awake and in a stable condition. Massive relief.



Can't believe that UEFA have decided to have the game be resumed though... Can't think any of the players would be in the right headspace for this.


Edit - apparently UEFA did consult the players of both sides who both agreed to this resumption by request, which can only assume means that they have had some pretty convincing reassurance that he is going to be ok, otherwise if there was any doubt can't imagine that this would have been going ahead.

[Wyldesyde19]

Thankfully Eriksen is awake and in a stable condition. Massive relief.



Can't believe that UEFA have decided to have the game be resumed though... Can't think any of the players would be in the right headspace for this.
This happened in a College basketball game back in December. I was watching the Florida Gators (my team) play, and our star guard made a dunk and the opposing team called a time out. He promptly passed out and had to be taken to the hospital.

Instead of canceling the game, we played on, blew the lead and lost. The kids just weren’t into it. How can anyone be into it after watching a team mate pass out like that?

I’m sure Ericksen’s teammates are going through the same thing. Tough to play after witnessing that.

[Taz]

This happened in a College basketball game back in December. I was watching the Florida Gators (my team) play, and our star guard made a dunk and the opposing team called a time out. He promptly passed out and had to be taken to the hospital.

Instead of canceling the game, we played on, blew the lead and lost. The kids just weren’t into it. How can anyone be into it after watching a team mate pass out like that?

I’m sure Ericksen’s teammates are going through the same thing. Tough to play after witnessing that.


Was just reported on BBC here, that the Danish FA stated that Eriksen actually spoke to the team (from the hospital), which was the reassurance that they were convinced that he is going to be ok.

[Nausicaä]

Good news being reported - Reuters say that he raised his hand as he was carried off. Hopefully that's true and he can make a full recovery.

Yeah there was a photo of him sitting up slightly while holding his hand to his head while been carried off the pitch which was good to see!

[pahaK]

And in the shadow of the dramatic events, let's not forget that Finland won their first-ever appearance in any major football tournament. Perhaps not very convincingly, but still. Yay, us :)

[honeykid]

We won the game. We should've won the game and we deserved to win the game. It's honestly not often I get to say that about an England game against a decent team. Well done lads.

Well done to Finland as well. Not in the circumstances that anyone would've wanted, but your first win at the Euro's isn't nothing and Denmark are a good team too.

[gandalf26]

CMON SCOTLAND ��������������!!

First time England vs Scotland in a competitive major competition in 25 years!

[honeykid]

I want England to win as much for the points as for the fact we won't hear the end of it if they don't. :D

Really though, with the exception of the points, this is almost a no-win situation for England. Unless we can win by 3 or more goals it'll be 'expected' and anything but a win is a loss. The Scots will be right up for this one and, TBH, I'll happily take a 1-0 win right now and qualify for the next round. Our defence just worries me immensely, as does Pickford in goal.

Anyway, here's hoping it's all alright on the night and we ease to a comfortable victory. :)

[honeykid]

So I got the draw I wanted for England, which is weird because it's Germany. Technically Hungary would've been the 'easier' draw, but I don't trust England to beat a team that good which the crowd will 'expect' them to beat. It's too much for an England team, so I thought Germany would be the best bet because that defence can definitely be got at and it's slow. Also I'd expect Germany to come out and try and play against us and our speed on the break should play well into that.

That all said, Germany will almost certainly win because they're Germany and that's what they do in tournaments. Especially against England.

[kgaard]

This must be the greatest day in football in a long time, right? The only downside is there's no way the rest of the tournament can live up to this.

[Chypmunk]

What odds France to win 5-3 now? :D

[Fabulous]

Two great games today.

[Golgot]

Nuts, pure nuts. It's been a good Euros so far :D

(I like the theory that it's because of the 6 subs, and everyone piling on fresh attacking players against tired defenders. But I'm all for goals either way :))

No ways the England vs Germany game can match Monday for drama, but let's hope they try :D

[Chypmunk]

You jinxed it .... prolly be


90 mins: England 0 - 0 Germany
120 mins: England 0 - 0 Germany
pens: England 0 - 1 Germany

now :D

[Golgot]

Hey, as a Spurs fan, I feel like I just watched the Champions league final run all in one day. And we all know how that final went ;)

(And we should probably treat any game against Germany as our final ;))

But ach, there'll be drama, no worries :D

[honeykid]

What has Jadon Sancho done? Has Ole asked Gareth not to play him in case he gets injured? Just seen the team... I think I'm in for a long game.

[Chypmunk]

Can't understand why those that booed the German National Anthem didn't then also boo the England team for taking a knee. Oh the irony.
Really hope Germany win now.

edit: Oh well, the England players deserved the win on the balance of play.

[Fabulous]

England should be smooth sailing to the final.

[honeykid]

England should be smooth sailing to the final.

I really hope that's said with sarcasm or irony. You know England, right?

Assuming that Gareth continues to play the way he has, then Ukraine might be a better opponet than the Swedes would've been? The Swedes are disciplined and would've sat and waited for England (a bit like the last time we played them) while the Ukrainians have a couple of players which might want to break out and take us on. Hopefully that'll provide us with some opportunites.

[honeykid]

That was uncharacteristically comfortable. Next up the fairy tale which is the Denmark tournament. I hate playing destiny teams.

[kgaard]

A) England was better than Denmark, especially in extra time.

B) England was lucky to get a very soft penalty.

[Taz]

Never ever a penalty. Come on Italy in the final. If England win, we will never hear the end of it. Puke. https://www.talkceltic.net/forums/smilies/99.gif

[Chypmunk]

Christmas came early, even if it was the better side over the 120 that went through.
Had a tickle on Italy to win it during the group stages, think it could very possibly be a tight match but hope they can do it as the wife makes me 'watch' (listen to) an awful lot of the BBC News Channel.

[John-Connor]

I think the I-talians will win this, within the regular playing time.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/lgY8VB0n4KweiUudA8/200.gif

[honeykid]

Never ever a penalty. Come on Italy in the final. If England win, we will never hear the end of it. Puke. https://www.talkceltic.net/forums/smilies/99.gif

If we win it we won't hear the end of it either. :rolleyes:

Soft penalty, definitely, and even after all the replays last night I still wasn't completely sure, but I did think it was a penalty in real time, so I can understand why it wasn't overturned.

Pickford looked the most Pickford he has looked all tournament. I hope it's a one off. We can definitely beat Italy. I don't think we will, but in every game they've given up a couple of really good chances and if we can take advantage of one of more of those, we'll have a great chance.

Although we conceded a goal (and I was worried last night to see how we'd react if/when we went a goal down and that was a good reaction) it wasn't really a defensive mistake which cost us. It was a good freekick but Pickford, again, was at fault. Another good defensive performance with a calm Pickford in goal is our only real chance to win, IMO.

[kgaard]

Not to be a wet blanket, but the soft penalty/not a penalty issue is small potatoes next to the criminal decision to allow so many people into England and Wembley for the semis and the final. I love football, I love crowds at matches, but given the rising rates in England right now, it's madness.

[Taz]

Not to be a wet blanket, but the soft penalty/not a penalty issue is small potatoes next to the criminal decision to allow so many people into England and Wembley for the semis and the final. I love football, I love crowds at matches, but given the rising rates in England right now, it's madness.


True this so much. And with Bozo declaring that completely exit all restrictions in like a weeks' time really underlines the madness. Here in Scotland there has been a massive spike in cases and while this is partly because of the seeded Delta variant that has taken root in Glasgow, it's no co-incidence that the spike has likewise followed from when so many Scottish fans went down to London and it's believed a lot of them came back and have spread it. In a news report earlier this week, Scotland now has 6 of the top 10 hoy spots for covid in all of Europe, and just before that game, apart from Glasgow we were doing pretty well and had it well in hand. :/



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57712737


Due to get my second jag this weekend, and can't come soon enough.

[ScarletLion]

Absolutely rooting for Italy. If England win it is going to be hell on Earth here.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/255px-Flag_of_Italy.svg.png

[Stirchley]

Can’t wait until Sunday for the final at 3 p.m. Eastern time. Will have to sign up for ESPN streaming again & presume their coverage won’t be free like it is for the World Cup. Whatever.

So excited for England to win & will be mighty disappointed if they don’t. Because I know they can do this. :yup:

[honeykid]

They can, but they probably won't. That said, I haven't thought this much of an England team since I was young enough to know better. I've never seen us in a final, so I'm already happy with what they've done, but to see them lift a trophy would be fantastic.

[ScarletLion]

Come on Italy

https://twitter.com/RaveFootage/status/1414261099696898059

[Chypmunk]

Classless England fans booing the opposing National Anthem again.
Hope Italy absolutely thrash them now by way of return.

edit: Not going well at half-time, nicely taken early goal by Shaw though.

[ScarletLion]

Absolute cavemen. They deserve nothing. Scum football nation.

https://twitter.com/KyleJGlen/status/1414294866704617486

[The Rodent]

Ingerleerrnd!
Ingerleerrnd! Ingerleerrnd! Naa naaaaa!

But yeah... there always has been bad elements within Football Fandom.
Give proper fans a bad name and it's one of the reasons I've never really been interested in Football.

I'm watching this final though, simply because this current England team have been amazing.
First major final of any kind, for 55 years, and as an Englishman, I have to at least watch the game.

[Nausicaä]

That's what you get for trying to be clever show offs taking a penalty... :facepalm:

Just run and kick the bloody ball.

[Redapplecigz]

Disgraceful behavior by the England fans. They are sore losers. Beating up innocent Italian supporters? Disgusting.

Face it, England is not a top football nation…and haven’t been for many years. They were lucky to get as far as they did.

Booing the national anthem was absolutely classless.

[The Rodent]

Yeah my neighbours all took to the street at full time and were howling at the moon for 10 minutes or so.

Now there's cars in the next street over, pulling burnouts and screaming out their windows.

[Chypmunk]

Hate penalties, feel sorry for the players that missed ..... but glad Italy won in the end, really could have gone either way.

[ScarletLion]

So happy. Just feel incredibly bad for the genuine people like Italian shop owners in London that are going to get hit by English football hooligans tonight.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/513uIdLEr1L._AC_SX425_.jpg

[Taz]

Congrats Italy. Stoked that England didnt win - they were lucky to even be there and would've been even more insufferable than they already are, and stuick their 'football coming home' crap up their ass, lol.



Actually, football is going home - to Rome. :P

[Stirchley]

Congrats Italy. Stoked that England didnt win - they were lucky to even be there and would've been even more insufferable than they already are, and stuick their 'football coming home' crap up their ass, lol

It’s sad to hear a Scot so violently anti-English. It’s sad when nationalities hate each other. At least I think so.

[ScarletLion]

It’s sad to hear a Scot so violently anti-English. It’s sad when nationalities hate each other. At least I think so.

I think you really have to live in a country that borders England to see why some people in those countries feel the way they do.

These were the front pages of the newspapers in my local supermarket yesterday (apart from the Herald one). I do not live in England. It is shoved down my throat. I am not English.

That's all before we get to the way their 'fans' behaved. They broke into their own stadium!

https://i.imgur.com/wuy7BW8.png

[Stirchley]

I think you really have to live in a country that borders England to see why some people in those countries feel the way they do.


So the Welsh hate English people too?

[mrblond]

I'm so sad that England lost this final in this ridiculous way. :(

What an irony, when they've had dream teams, back in 1990 and 1996, they couldn't reach a final but now, with these average footballers they did it.

[AgrippinaX]

I think you really have to live in a country that borders England to see why some people in those countries feel the way they do.

These were the front pages of the newspapers in my local supermarket yesterday (apart from the Herald one). I do not live in England. It is shoved down my throat. I am not English.

That's all before we get to the way their 'fans' behaved. They broke into their own stadium!

https://i.imgur.com/wuy7BW8.png

Yet somehow, Scotland et al never quite leave. It is much easier to break things up than keep them together, what on Earth is the benefit of stoking division there?

[ScarletLion]

So the Welsh hate English people too?

I don't speak for other people. And I don't hate anyone. But I abhor the media coverage that is slapped in our faces every day, and I am pretty sure that no other host nation would have broken into the stadium and rioted at their own final. Imagine being Canadian in Canada and everytime you turn on the news, it applies to the people in the country next door, not you.

That's why many in Wales and Scotland are campaigning for independence from the Union. People think the UK is England. That includes some people in England.

The lack of respect and common decency in English football fans / media is perhaps why the whole of Europe wanted Italy to win.

[ScarletLion]

Yet somehow, Scotland et al never quite leave. It is much easier to break things up than keep them together, what on Earth is the benefit of stoking division there?

Scotland will be leaving soon. The ogre in no.10 has seen to that.

[AgrippinaX]

Scotland will be leaving soon. The ogre in no.10 has seen to that.

Hmm, that may be, yet we’ve heard it all before… I’m no particular fan of Mr Johnson, he’s way over his head, but he delivers what people want, take it up with the people.

[AgrippinaX]

Absolute cavemen. They deserve nothing. Scum football nation.

https://twitter.com/KyleJGlen/status/1414294866704617486

Do you really think that’s a sensible statement to make? Dear lord, what is the world coming to.

[Stirchley]

I'm so sad that England lost this final in this ridiculous way. :(

What an irony, when they've had dream teams, back in 1990 and 1996, they couldn't reach a final but now, with these average footballers they did it.

“Average footballers”? Did we watch the same match?

Imagine being Canadian in Canada and everytime you turn on the news, it applies to the people in the country next door, not you.

I imagine that’s exactly the situation in Canada actually.

[AgrippinaX]

I imagine that’s exactly the situation in Canada actually.

As someone whose brother lives there, yup.