Lets Talk Football

[neiba]

BARCAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D I'm so freaking happy right now!!! Who said Barca's reign was over? Who said Messi was finished? That's a freaking great team right there!

That and benfica being trashed by Dortmund made this a perfect night!

[gandalf26]

Legendary!!

I remember looking at my phone last night, Barca were 15-1 to go through and I thought nah. Womder what the odds were before the 88 minute goal.

[honeykid]

Amazing comeback, but it really shouldn't have happened. PSG were more awful this time around than they were good in the first tie. Rabiot was particularly dreadful. So bad that he made Trapp look competent.

However, it was such an amazing ending (Neymar's freekick is ridiculous) that even the usual Barca cheating and favourable decisions were forgotten for a while in its aftermath.

I wonder if we'll look back in a few years and pinpoint this game as the first time Neymar started to step up to be the main man at Barca?

As for Arsenal? Well, that was everything Arsenal (and by extension Wenger) is and has been for the last 9 or 10 years. They refuse to change even when they're outclassed and against better players. Wenger's like a driver who drives at the same speed and in the same way regardless of the state of the car or the road conditions and then complains about everything when he loses control.

Pleased to see Ibra and Mings get their respective bans. I've seen some people claiming that Ibra should've gotten more than Mings or, at least, the same, but I can't see how a stamp on someones head can't be seen as worse than an elbow. I'm sure it's just ABU's, but it's still annoying.

[the samoan lawyer]

Legendary!!

I remember looking at my phone last night, Barca were 15-1 to go through and I thought nah. Womder what the odds were before the 88 minute goal.


I think before the games Barca were around 33/1 for Champs League! They're now 11/4 favourites!!

[Deathly]

Amazing comeback, but it really shouldn't have happened. PSG were more awful this time around than they were good in the first tie.

What I cannot wrap my head around is why teams in the position of PSG end up packing up and parking the bus from the beginning of the game, and refrain from playing any form of attacking football. Being up 4-0 from a first leg is a massive lead, one I think I heard no other team before yesterday had managed to turn around in a second leg. They're essentially giving Barcelona a chance at coming back in the tie, because attack is what they do best. This, when they've already seen they can, if not outplay them, at least be on par or suffer a loss of one or two goals with a fair amount of chances in both ends.

In games like this, from PSG's perspective, attack is always the best defense. Especially when you're playing Barcelona at the Camp Nou. Inconceivable how none of these 'top coaches' seem to grasp this.

[MadMac]

Good! Your family are sensible. You are not! ;)
I was always a bit of an odd duck :D

[Fabulous]

I have no dog in the fight, but for one reason or another I always find myself rooting for the blue side of the top 6. City/Chelsea/Spurs over United/Arsenal/Liverpool.

[Upton]

Everyone knows soccer is about the eternal struggle between Blue and Red. It's all out of whack now though with Mourinho at Manchester United. Mourinho was the standard-bearer for the forces of Blue for over a decade. He is such a Blue in so many respects and it feels wrong for him to have flipped that

[Fabulous]

After Barça's amazing comeback over PSG, they fall to Deportivo in the league.

You take the good with the bad. :)

[Deathly]

Funny how that happens. The balancing of confidence. :)

Why was United's game postponed, again?

[Fabulous]

Funny how that happens. The balancing of confidence. :)

Why was United's game postponed, again?

So they can play their FA Cup match against Chelsea on Monday.

[Deathly]

Ah, that's right, of course. Not too bad of a game on a Monday evening. :cool:

[Fabulous]

Ah, that's right, of course. Not too bad of a game on a Monday evening. :cool:

United will be without a striker. Ibrahimović, Martial, Rashford, and Rooney will all miss the game. Will be interesting to see how they set up.

[honeykid]

Fellaini up front? Or in an advanced role as he was Thursday?

[the samoan lawyer]

Or is this mind games from Mourinho? Hope so. We cant hardly score without Zlatan. Without Rooney, Martial and Rashford we've no chance.

[Fabulous]

Looks like Rashford is actually starting. He was supposedly ill and wasn't going to play.

[Fabulous]

FA Cup semi-final draw: Chelsea v Tottenham, Arsenal v Manchester City

[Upton]

Leicester to win the Champions League to deny 4th place Spurs a spot next year please

[Fabulous]

Bayern München, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Borussia Dortmund, Juventus, Atlético Madrid, Monaco, and Leicester City have advanced to the quarter-finals of the Champions League.

All of the usual suspects are still alive.

[Fabulous]

QF Draw:

Bayern München v Real Madrid
Juventus v Barcelona
Borussia Dortmund v Monaco
Atlético Madrid v Leicester City

[Deathly]

QF Draw:

Bayern München v Real Madrid
Juventus v Barcelona
Borussia Dortmund v Monaco
Atlético Madrid v Leicester City

Holy cow. Bayern against Real is one massive fixture. As good as 50/50, but I think Bayern will advance if they go into the two fixtures with an injury-free squad.

Juventus were extremely solid against Porto and have a very decent shot at beating Barca over two games. Dortmund and Monaco are both scoring goals for fun and have some hugely talented youngsters, so expect two entertaining meetings there. Atletico will likely prove too much of a defensively compact side for Leicester to get through.

[honeykid]

Some might complain when it comes to the semi's and/or final, but this is a magnificent draw. Finals are usually boring anyway, regardless of the teams, so let's have some good football. For the first time in I don't know how long, I think both Real and Barca should be considered underdogs and I think both will have to score in the away leg to give themselves any real chance in the second leg. A semis without either would surely mean sweeping changes at both clubs. Changes which, I admit, may well happen anyway.

Take away the prestige of the names and Borussia Dortmund v Monaco should be the tie of the round. Monaco just score for fun and Dortmund can hurt you in many ways. That said, I think Dortmund will prove too much for the Monaco defence if their tie with City is anything to go by.

Surely this is the end of the road for Leicester? Atleti get the tie the other seven teams wanted and I just can't see them getting beaten by Leicester. Not because they're the better team (though they are) or because they have better players (which they do) but because Leicester can only really beat them one way. The way they won the League last year, and Atleti are better at doing that than they are, too. If all else fails, Atleti will win with a freekick or something outrageous from Griezmann.

United shouldn't have much problem with Anderlecht, but with this season's United, I have no confidence in saying that. I wouldn't even be surprised if we didn't win tomorrow.

[Deathly]

For the first time in I don't know how long, I think both Real and Barca should be considered underdogs and I think both will have to score in the away leg to give themselves any real chance in the second leg.

This is likely an unpopular opinion, but you have my full support here. Agree on everything else you've said as well.

[Fabulous]

Paris Saint Germain defeated Monaco by a score of 4-1 to earn their 7th Coupe de la Ligue.

[MadMac]

Why is everyone in my family an Everton FC fan?
I appear to be the only Red in a sea of blue.

...and today I'm the only one cheering!


Liverpool 3 vs Everton 1

[neiba]

slbenfica and FC Porto draw 1-1, yesterday. We're still 1 point behind, with 7 matches till the end of the season.

It's not going to be an easy final run to nobody, but I just hope we're up there at the end!

[honeykid]

Another poor draw against an 'inferior' team at home. We've dropped so many points this season at home against teams like this. If/when we don't make top 4 at the end of the season, this will be the main reason, IMO. Big game against Everton on Tuesday for both teams.

Elsewhere, that PSG/Monaco game was a bit of a surprise, wasn't it? I didn't see it but it seems as if Monaco just shrank after the second goal.

[the samoan lawyer]

Another poor draw against an 'inferior' team at home. We've dropped so many points this season at home against teams like this. If/when we don't make top 4 at the end of the season, this will be the main reason, IMO. Big game against Everton on Tuesday for both teams.

Elsewhere, that PSG/Monaco game was a bit of a surprise, wasn't it? I didn't see it but it seems as if Monaco just shrank after the second goal.


It really is poor. We struggle so badly in front of goal its unreal. 20 goals in 15 home league games or something close to that? Not good enough. I honestly cant see us getting 4th place.

[honeykid]

Boy did I have to dig to find this thread.


Premier League: Transfer window will close before start of season

Premier League clubs have voted to close next summer's transfer window before the season starts.
Managers have complained that the ability for players to move when the season is under way causes disruption to their squads and preparations.
From next season, the window will close at 17:00 BST on the Thursday before the Premier League season begins.
The vote was not unanimous and clubs will still be able to sell players until the end of the normal window.
The window across Europe runs until 31 August. The Premier League's move means that while clubs will be able to sell until that date, buying activity will cease on 9 August for the 2018-19 season.
European leagues will still be able to buy and sell until 31 August, while the Football League's window also remains unaltered.
Football League bosses have indicated they could follow the Premier League's move but require further dialogue with stakeholders before a decision is made.
The number of Premier League clubs who wanted the change is not yet clear but at least 14 of the 20 must have voted for the move in order for a change to take place.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41188235

I'm hoping for another good result this weekend. We have Stoke and, obviously, they beat Arsenal but they've not looked too good, even in that game. However, last season this was the kind of game we'd have drawn having been unable to break them down. Or, only scoring once after a host of chances. Hoping Lukaku fills his boots.

[Doolallyfrank]

Boy did I have to dig to find this thread.

I'm hoping for another good result this weekend. We have Stoke and, obviously, they beat Arsenal but they've not looked too good, even in that game. However, last season this was the kind of game we'd have drawn having been unable to break them down. Or, only scoring once after a host of chances. Hoping Lukaku fills his boots.

Your boys look certs for the title, I think the only area you could consider weak is your fullbacks (which will probably be strengthened next year) not a Mourinho fan as his teams play pretty boring football, but United have been good to watch so far. If it gets tight at the top, be prepared for 1-0's week in week out though

[Chypmunk]

Drumcondra under 11's could probably beat us right now tbf :D

[Dani8]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PptTeyYShdw

Imagine being one of those photographers lying down. You've feel that in your chakras.

[honeykid]

^^That stuff makes me laugh. Why they don't :rolleyes: and tell them to get on with it I don't know. Maybe every team should have a culturally relevant way of intimidating the opposition? The English could stick their fingers up, the Scots could moon, etc^^

Good week for the English clubs in the CL. Most of them cruised through their first game, though Dortmund will be wondering how they left London without any points. I'm not one for possession stats (especially in the PL) but with a perfectly good goal being disallowed and their keeper deciding that he was allergic to his near post, it should've been closer than it was.

I didn't watch the game, but it seems as if Liverpool were Liverpool. Poor defence. Two shots on target and two goals, though you can't blame anyone except the defender who swung and missed at the cross for that. Was it Lovren?

What happened in Portugal? Both teams lost at home against teams I'd expect them to beat. Only Sporting won and they were away.

Russia is usually an awkward place to go for a game, but I still thought Napoli would take the win.

[Golgot]

Good week for the English clubs in the CL. Most of them cruised through their first game, though Dortmund will be wondering how they left London without any points. I'm not one for possession stats (especially in the PL) but with a perfectly good goal being disallowed and their keeper deciding that he was allergic to his near post, it should've been closer than it was.

Yeah totally should have been a draw going by the highlights.

But It doesn't matter, we won at Wembley, black is white! :D

[honeykid]

It's definitely good news for Spurs. The 'hoodoo' is over... For now. And Kane is scoring again. All four goals were very good in the game. Kane is one of the best out there atm. Not Messi or Ronaldo, obviously, and maybe not Lewandowski, unless his very slight decline becomes more permanent, but otherwise who else is better atm? And he's perfect for Spurs and how Poch wants to play. I'd love to see him at United.

[Dani8]

^^That stuff makes me laugh. Why they don't :rolleyes: and tell them to get on with it I don't know. Maybe every team should have a culturally relevant way of intimidating the opposition? The English could stick their fingers up, the Scots could moon, etc^^

You heretic! I'd like to see you tell those big angry mofos to get on with it.

I love it. Spine tingling.

[Captain Steel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PptTeyYShdw

Imagine being one of those photographers lying down. You've feel that in your chakras.

This would've been great if the team broke into "The Lion Sleeps Tonight!" ;)

[neiba]

So proud of Porto today!!! What a match!!!

[Fabulous]

Sérgio Conceição seems to have them playing quite well.

[neiba]

Sérgio Conceição seems to have them playing quite well.

Yeah, we didn't buy any player this season (except for the 3rd GK), he is using the players that were on the team last year and some that were on loan and returned. It's a freaking miracle to see how the team has changed in a few months. We have a match against Sporting Lisbon next Sunday that can make us 1st place, 5 points ahead of them or 2nd, one point behind. But so far, so good.

And Basel! Basel is another great team! ahahahahah :D

[honeykid]

I didn't see the game, but it's a good away win for Porto regardless of the state of the Monaco team these days. They're still better than that scoreline.

An easy win for United and Lukaku should've had a hattrick, but that's OK. The job was done.

Kane did it again. Only APOL I know, but still, two last time and three more this round. He's scoring regardless. I wonder if Spurs will have to fend off a really big offer next summer.

Liverpool should still go through because the other two teams seem to be dire, but they'll do well to get further than the first good team they play. You can't keep it tight at the back with two central defenders and the rest of the team trying to score. When everyone has their scoring boots on you can get away with it. A bit like Newcastle in the 90's, which is what they remind me of.

Lastly a great result for Chelsea last night. I was listening to it on the radio and you could almost hear the disbelief as Atleti lost to the last kick of the game. Batshuayi may never be the #1 striker at Chelsea, but they'll remember him after he's gone as someone who scored important goals.

[Powdered Water]

honeykid How's United doing?

[honeykid]

Powdered Water So far, so good. 10 points from 12 and joint top with City after 6 games. Lots of people talking about the title being between the two, but I think it'll be City and Chelsea, with United third and Spurs fourth.

We'll have a better idea about United once they've played some tougher games. ATM we're scoring lots of goals, but lots of late goals, which makes me worry about how we'll do against the better teams. If we can keep it up, then we're serious challengers for the title this season, but I still think it'll be third. Which will be OK. Not good, that's the title, but good progress and should set us up for a title next season... But it's if things go as they are. Jose wins the league in his second season is the received wisdom, but so is it all falling apart in the third season. So, maybe, we'll have to start all over again.

[honeykid]

Sergio Aguero: Manchester City striker injured in Amsterdam accident
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football

[ashdoc]

Amazingly an Indian is among the top five scorers of goals in international football currently. This inspite of football not being popular in India.

39354

[neiba]

It looks like City is taking this year's title... Guardiola has them playing amazingly well!
Was expecting more from Mourinho, tbh!

[neiba]

Oh, and how's Liverpool playing? I know they have a pretty scary offence but they usually have weak deffenses... Something tells me that in a couple of months there will be many FCPorto fans in here for one night! xD

[honeykid]

It looks like City is taking this year's title... Guardiola has them playing amazingly well!
Was expecting more from Mourinho, tbh!
With the exception of how well City are playing (which is both fantastic and annoying) this season is going pretty much as expected. I still think United will finish third behind Chelsea, though I'm not as sure about that as I was at the start of the season. Anyone who thought United would take the title this year either hasn't been watching United for the last 5 or so years, or thought they were watching the '08 United. That's not to say I thought it impossible, but the only thing which had me thinking we could do it was the second season Mou stuff. Which looks like it's certainly come to an end this season.

I am starting to question whether Spurs will take 4th. I thought Wembley would be a problem, and it still will be (not in a curse way, but because other teams will relish playing there), but they don't look anything like as good as they have for the last couple of seasons. Maybe it's just injuries? But Kane has been carrying them all season thus far and he needs a larger supporting cast than Son.


Oh, and how's Liverpool playing? I know they have a pretty scary offence but they usually have weak deffenses... Something tells me that in a couple of months there will be many FCPorto fans in here for one night! xD
I'll be a big Porto fan for two nights. :D

Liverpool are playing pretty much as you'd expect a Klopp team to play without a Hummels at the back reading the game and organising the defence or the best striker in the game putting away the chances. They're great fun to watch, but even if they're 2-0 up the other team has a chance of winning.

The keeper isn't good enough for a top 4 team, not that he's being helped by the defence or tactics.

Talking of the Scousers, they've just paid £75m for Virgil van Dijk. On the evidence of the season thus far he won't help much, but maybe if his head's right there, he'll look more like the defender of the last couple of seasons. Which will help, but still won't make Liverpool contenders IMO. Liverpools defensive problems go back to long before Klopp's arrival.

Carlos Carvalhal has been made manager at Swansea after his Christmas Eve sacking from Sheffield Wednesday.

[neiba]

With the exception of how well City are playing (which is both fantastic and annoying) this season is going pretty much as expected. I still think United will finish third behind Chelsea, though I'm not as sure about that as I was at the start of the season. Anyone who thought United would take the title this year either hasn't been watching United for the last 5 or so years, or thought they were watching the '08 United. That's not to say I thought it impossible, but the only thing which had me thinking we could do it was the second season Mou stuff. Which looks like it's certainly come to an end this season.


Yeah, but it's Mou, it's always fair to expect a miracle.

Perhaps if Pep wasn't playing in the same league with a never ending budget, ManUn would stand a chance.

Spain and France leagues also seem to have found their winner which is surprising, especially in Spain, considering how strong Real was on the Super Cup in August.
But I hate Real so it's nice to see them sink!

In Portugal, things were going fine to FCPorto, till we gave away 4 points in 2 matches (or in other words, till we were stolen 4 points in 2 matches). Now we're in 1st place tied with sporting lisbon and 3 points ahead of benfica who is a disaster but still manages to get some dubious points... Look at this "offside" that resulted in a cancelled goal that would have given us the win against benfica:

https://s14.postimg.org/bxzo40b75/img_605x340_2017_12_01_21_48_55_1340112.jpg

The best part: Portugal is using video referee this year!

I'll be a big Porto fan for two nights. :D

Liverpool are playing pretty much as you'd expect a Klopp team to play without a Hummels at the back reading the game and organising the defence or the best striker in the game putting away the chances. They're great fun to watch, but even if they're 2-0 up the other team has a chance of winning.

The keeper isn't good enough for a top 4 team, not that he's being helped by the defence or tactics.

Talking of the Scousers, they've just paid £75m for Virgil van Dijk. On the evidence of the season thus far he won't help much, but maybe if his head's right there, he'll look more like the defender of the last couple of seasons. Which will help, but still won't make Liverpool contenders IMO. Liverpools defensive problems go back to long before Klopp's arrival.

Carlos Carvalhal has been made manager at Swansea after his Christmas Eve sacking from Sheffield Wednesday.

It'd be fun to see Porto win against Liverpool but I really doubt that!

There are some interesting portuguese managers in UK, Carvalhal isn't one of them.

Wasn't Klopp against spending unrealistic amounts of money for football players? lol

[Fabulous]

neiba

City hasn’t spent much more than United. Using that kind of excuse when comparing them with United makes little sense.

[resopamenic]

It looks like City is taking this year's title... Guardiola has them playing amazingly well!
Was expecting more from Mourinho, tbh!
With the exception of how well City are playing (which is both fantastic and annoying) this season is going pretty much as expected. I still think United will finish third behind Chelsea, though I'm not as sure about that as I was at the start of the season. Anyone who thought United would take the title this year either hasn't been watching United for the last 5 or so years, or thought they were watching the '08 United. That's not to say I thought it impossible, but the only thing which had me thinking we could do it was the second season Mou stuff. Which looks like it's certainly come to an end this season.they were look pretty convincing at the beginning of the season, how they play, their squad, for title contender. but they just cant cope with city run, lost pogba couple of weeks and lukaku got moment of goal drought too
Also i never meet ppl predict pep and city will be near perfect like this easily just the way he do in other leagues, a really improvement from last year. it's also chelsea matters because they were just not as strong as last season for title race

[MovieMad16]

As a United fan, I'm disappointed but not surprised by the lack of effort we've put in the title race. There's calls now for Mou to go which I think is a bit silly. I can't see who you can bring in now to go up against Pep.

Let City have their time at the top, but I guarantee once Pep goes, it'll all go downhill.

[honeykid]

I don't think it's a lack of effort (with the exception of a couple of matches) it's just that City are so much better than everyone else in the league and we're starting from so far behind it'll probably take another couple of seasons. But I don't expect Mou to be there by then, so it might take another season on top of that for the new guy to mould his team.

Teams 2-4 are averaging at least 2 points a game, whereas City are closer to 3. If you think that Chelsea pretty much won the league last season with a 13 game winning streak, City are alread long past that and have conceded the fewest goals, while scoring the most. They'd have to screw up an historic amount to be overtaken, even if that team was perfect from now on.

[neiba]

WE DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PORTOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[honeykid]

Congrats, neiba. :up:

It might be controversial, (and I hate it) but I genuinely think City are the only really good team in Europe this season. Everyone else has been inconsistent or just not that good, and I include the unbeaten Barca and both CL finalists in that.

Bayern were better than Real in both legs but simply aren't good enough to put them away. (what's happened to Lewandowski this season? Does he need a move or has he just peaked?) The Roma/Liverpool tie was bizarre. Even basic defending seems to be beyond a lot of top teams now and especially in the CL. If that's the way football's going then fine, but you'd think at 5-0 up with the tie done and 15 minutes to go you might remember about that little thing called defending. Especially after the first one went in.

Barca have become a one man team to an even greater extent than before. Suarez has helped out in the second half of the season, but it's still Messi or nothing. All of which is great because if you have a player like that, then why not rely on him, but you can't call them a really good team, let along a great one.

Real? Well, if it wasn't for the CL no one would even ask me to explain why they're not a really good team. They're professional, experienced and they get the job done, but again, that doesn't make you a really good team IMO.

The Italian league has been where the excitement has been in the top 5 leagues, but Napoli seem to've fallen at the last hurdle, City took them apart in the CL and they failed to make it out of the group stages. Juve are about the only team which I could see an argument for, but like Roma, they snuck through into the later CL rounds on away goals (after being easily outplayed by Spurs in both legs) and then fell to the experience (and amazing overhead kick) of Ronaldo and Real.

The fact that City have run away with the league (and that United are 2nd and will probably finish there) shows that there's no argument from any other English team in this discussion. In fact, considering Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea's showings in the CL (how United lost to Sevilla is one of those things football does sometimes. Spurs should've put Juve away and Chelsea were better than Barca) it could be argued that not only are City the only really good team around at the moment, but that those trailing in their wake are actually better than most/all of the teams at the top of the other leagues. It's not a vintage season.

Still, looking forward to the FA Cup final. COME ON UNITED!

[neiba]

Congrats, neiba. :up:

It might be controversial, (and I hate it) but I genuinely think City are the only really good team in Europe this season. Everyone else has been inconsistent or just not that good, and I include the unbeaten Barca and both CL finalists in that.

Bayern were better than Real in both legs but simply aren't good enough to put them away. (what's happened to Lewandowski this season? Does he need a move or has he just peaked?) The Roma/Liverpool tie was bizarre. Even basic defending seems to be beyond a lot of top teams now and especially in the CL. If that's the way football's going then fine, but you'd think at 5-0 up with the tie done and 15 minutes to go you might remember about that little thing called defending. Especially after the first one went in.

Barca have become a one man team to an even greater extent than before. Suarez has helped out in the second half of the season, but it's still Messi or nothing. All of which is great because if you have a player like that, then why not rely on him, but you can't call them a really good team, let along a great one.

Real? Well, if it wasn't for the CL no one would even ask me to explain why they're not a really good team. They're professional, experienced and they get the job done, but again, that doesn't make you a really good team IMO.

The Italian league has been where the excitement has been in the top 5 leagues, but Napoli seem to've fallen at the last hurdle, City took them apart in the CL and they failed to make it out of the group stages. Juve are about the only team which I could see an argument for, but like Roma, they snuck through into the later CL rounds on away goals (after being easily outplayed by Spurs in both legs) and then fell to the experience (and amazing overhead kick) of Ronaldo and Real.

The fact that City have run away with the league (and that United are 2nd and will probably finish there) shows that there's no argument from any other English team in this discussion. In fact, considering Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea's showings in the CL (how United lost to Sevilla is one of those things football does sometimes. Spurs should've put Juve away and Chelsea were better than Barca) it could be argued that not only are City the only really good team around at the moment, but that those trailing in their wake are actually better than most/all of the teams at the top of the other leagues. It's not a vintage season.

Still, looking forward to the FA Cup final. COME ON UNITED!

You're absolutely right! Guadiola has City playing like a true team... He keeps showing everyone who said he wouldn't be noone outside Barca how wrong they were. Probably will be remembered as the best manager of all time

In Portugal everyone's saying that this was the most important league win of the past 30 years to FC Porto. The club is going through a very difficult period. We bought a Goalkeeper in the winter transfer season and that's it. And there's a huge scandal going on about benfica and corruption that envolves judges, politicians, referees, other team's players and managers, journalists... Well, regular season in Portugal...

[honeykid]

How big will the changes be at Real this summer? ZZ has already gone and both Bale and Ronaldo are making noises about leaving and, while atm I'd be more worried about Bale leaving than Ronaldo if I were a Real fan, that might well change with the new manager. Will ZZ take another job this summer? Maybe he'll go occupy the space the new Real boss leaves?

[SmudgeEFC1985]

Just...sliding into this thread right here! Evertonian, home, away and in Europe (when we're actually good enough to get there!) and I feel I can actually like football again now that Liverpool lost the final last week, and we no longer have that gravy swilling oaf Allardyce in charge, so footy is good again!

[hell_storm2004]

Fat Sam is out through!

[resopamenic]

How big will the changes be at Real this summer? ZZ has already gone and both Bale and Ronaldo are making noises about leaving and, while atm I'd be more worried about Bale leaving than Ronaldo if I were a Real fan, that might well change with the new manager. Will ZZ take another job this summer? Maybe he'll go occupy the space the new Real boss leaves?zidane likely take season off. He did magnificent job but talk how demanded top team like real he probably need to re charge motivatipn thing like that.
I guess it will be sarri or wenger. Other top managers like klop amd pochetinno seems quiet already comfort with their current seat

[neiba]

If I were Zidane I'd retire... What he did this season will only be possible to do on a club like Real... Playing some of the worst football of all major leagues and still manage to win a CL. I don't believe he'll succeed anywhere else... He's good at managing egos and that's it. Tactically he's average at most and doesn't know how to develop young players and build a team.

[SeeingisBelieving]

I can see that, to be taken seriously as a manager, Zidane really needs to go somewhere where he doesn't have that calibre of squad. I'd love to see him in the Premier League.

My favourite ever player too. He got me into watching football.

[honeykid]

Does Zidane really need to be taken seriously as a manager? 3 CL and a league title? I'm not telling anyone he's the best manager of all time or that he needs to be somewhere for 20 years in order to be taken seriously. but management at clubs like Real isn't about tactics or philosophies. At least, not to the extent they are at other clubs. It's about getting the Harlem Globetrotters to play against real teams rather than The Generals.

I liked that he mentioned winning the league as the accomplishment which meant the most, because that's what I believe, too. I don't know if anyone would think that Real have been the best team in Europe for the last three years, but at least the year they won the league too, they have something to back up that statement. He wasn't able to get that team up enough week in, week out to win another league. It's a team which is near the end of this cycle and needs a rebuild. I don't know if ZZ would want to do that or not, but I think he saw this season that he would probably be unable to get another league win with this team. So that's another 2 or 3 years at Real before he could start to think of another? That's too long and even ZZ wouldn't get that time at Real.

Having thought about it a bit, it wouldn't surprise me if he waited a month or so and took on the France job. Whether international management is enough for him at this time I don't know, but if it is, that's what I'd expect. Again, what that team needs is someone who can take all those personalities and mold them into a team which wins a tournament.

[SmudgeEFC1985]

Fat Sam is out through!

Exactly! So I can start liking football again! I think last season was the worst Ive had in 19 years!

[resopamenic]

I like how people try to undermined someone achievement, It's like pep meme couple of years back.
Not that i state zidane is already/will standing among the best nor that he's already prove himself on certain category like coaching in more challenging -by such romanticism- place/league. but credit to him for established those harlem globetrotter to play chess together as not all top manager could succes to do so, then three consecutive CL. There this challenge like regenerate that team for example but it seems his introvert nature akready shown. He will succes somewhere else or next time? Who know, but lot of ppl not that succes with trophy but still called manager for obvious reason

[neiba]

I like how people try to undermined someone achievement, It's like pep meme couple of years back.
Not that i state zidane is already/will standing among the best nor that he's already prove himself on certain category like coaching in more challenging -by such romanticism- place/league. but credit to him for established those harlem globetrotter to play chess together as not all top manager could succes to do so, then three consecutive CL. There this challenge like regenerate that team for example but it seems his introvert nature akready shown. He will succes somewhere else or next time? Who know, but lot of ppl not that succes with trophy but still called manager for obvious reason

Pep is a very different manager. His Barcelona was without a doubt one of the most spectacular teams of all time, because the man is a genius! He knows how to handle a lockerroom, he knows how to build a team from scratch if he needs it, he can develop young players and he's tactically perfect.

I see ZZ having success as a national manager, but not as a team manager, especially in struggling teams like was ManUn when Mourinho got there.

And we can't forget how Madrid won the CL this year... They were one of the less deserving teams of the last 8 and benefitted from a very unusual amount of incredible mistakes from the referees and other teams' players, against Juve, Bayern and Liverpool... And I won't start describing what Ramos did...

[SeeingisBelieving]

Does Zidane really need to be taken seriously as a manager? 3 CL and a league title?

Well he was doing something right :). I meant that there'll be the argument: well he was bound to win anyway with those players/resources. But what if he goes to a lesser team and still gets great results? That's going to be interesting.

I liked that he mentioned winning the league as the accomplishment which meant the most, because that's what I believe, too.

I remember Jose Mourinho saying about the difference in the leagues in countries like Spain and Italy where you pretty much have one of two top teams winning every season and nobody else comes close, and how the Premier League is very different in that respect, being more competitive and less predictable.

Having thought about it a bit, it wouldn't surprise me if he waited a month or so and took on the France job. Whether international management is enough for him at this time I don't know, but if it is, that's what I'd expect. Again, what that team needs is someone who can take all those personalities and mold them into a team which wins a tournament.

He could do. We still don't know what Arsene Wenger's going to be doing actually, but I would expect France to do well again in the World Cup. It was a bit of a sickener for them to lose in the Euro final.

[SeeingisBelieving]

Fat Sam is out through!

When The Crystal Maze first came back here in the UK, as a charity special, with Stephen Merchant presenting, he had a lot of sport with Allardyce's then-recent England sacking :).

[SeeingisBelieving]

And I won't start describing what Ramos did...

We couldn't believe he got away with that.

[SeeingisBelieving]

Other top managers like klop amd pochetinno seems quiet already comfort with their current seat

I must admit I quite like the way Pochettino keeps people guessing :p. He's just signed a new contract but he's saying "If Real call, I'd have to listen".

[resopamenic]

Other top managers like klop amd pochetinno seems quiet already comfort with their current seat

I must admit I quite like the way Pochettino keeps people guessing :p. He's just signed a new contract but he's saying "If Real call, I'd have to listen".real probably still can lure him out, it's just the timing was he already invested some time for build current totenham with such positive trend (and probablybmore to come) . Real must make offer he cant refuse :D tho' yeah madrid job itsekf already sound tempting

[SeeingisBelieving]

real probably still can lure him out, it's just the timing was he already invested some time for build current totenham with such positive trend (and probablybmore to come) . Real must make offer he cant refuse :D tho' yeah madrid job itsekf already sound tempting

I think he should stay with Tottenham anyway but they've got to win something next season. In a way it's like Germany constantly being pipped to the post by Spain even though they had an incredible team for a decade. It was really unlucky for them in the season that Leicester won but they thoroughly deserved it.

[resopamenic]

I like how people try to undermined someone achievement, It's like pep meme couple of years back.
Not that i state zidane is already/will standing among the best nor that he's already prove himself on certain category like coaching in more challenging -by such romanticism- place/league. but credit to him for established those harlem globetrotter to play chess together as not all top manager could succes to do so, then three consecutive CL. There this challenge like regenerate that team for example but it seems his introvert nature akready shown. He will succes somewhere else or next time? Who know, but lot of ppl not that succes with trophy but still called manager for obvious reason
Pep is a very different manager. His Barcelona was without a doubt one of the most spectacular teams of all time, because the man is a genius! He knows how to handle a lockerroom, he knows how to build a team from scratch if he needs it, he can develop young players and he's tactically perfect. yet there were always ppl undermined him for what he's done at barca - for whatever reason- and even till now like why he just lurk into job at club with elite rep(munchen) or somekind of unlimited budget(man city) - etc which in the end just lead to "there no true scottman" argument


I see ZZ having success as a national manager, but not as a team manager, especially in struggling teams like was ManUn when Mourinho got there.

And we can't forget how Madrid won the CL this year... They were one of the less deserving teams of the last 8 and benefitted from a very unusual amount of incredible mistakes from the referees and other teams' players, against Juve, Bayern and Liverpool... And I won't start describing what Ramos did... i dont think they are not deserve recent CL just because other club out of luck, as there could be ton of story like that if we trace history back.
Last season showcase his current limitation i think. his only peak so far was when he won that double when they literally outdone everyone, especially tactic wise against agaim the main rival barca.
Interestung idea as just been mentioned previous post, i would like too to see him manage national team as it not week in week out or not fall for such routine, sound likely suit his nature

[resopamenic]

real probably still can lure him out, it's just the timing was he already invested some time for build current totenham with such positive trend (and probablybmore to come) . Real must make offer he cant refuse :D tho' yeah madrid job itsekf already sound tempting

I think he should stay with Tottenham anyway but they've got to win something next season. In a way it's like Germany constantly being pipped to the post by Spain even though they had an incredible team for a decade. It was really unlucky for them in the season that Leicester won but they thoroughly deserved it.funny season actually. Im a gooner(more like pseudo one :D) but somehow i still felt funny we got 2nd position at the end where totenham more impressive .
Win PL kinda hard talk the rough competition to even make big four, Pochetino must assure silverware for good next time.

[SeeingisBelieving]

Win PL kinda hard talk the rough competition to even make big four, Pochetino must assure silverware for good next time.

I think so. Liverpool should have finished higher up last season as well.

[resopamenic]

Win PL kinda hard talk the rough competition to even make big four, Pochetino must assure silverware for good next time.

I think so. Liverpool should have finished higher up last season as well. problem for liverpool i think they were not consistent enough on the season first half, with such bad defence. It improve i think by the inclusion of van dijk but it seem still prone and kinda late. Also they really need new goalkeeper for instance

[SeeingisBelieving]

problem for liverpool i think they were not consistent enough on the season first half, with such bad defence. It improve i think by the inclusion of van dijk but it seem still prone and kinda late.

Yeah they picked up somewhat late in the day.

Also they really need new goalkeeper for instance

Sad but true. I couldn't believe what I was seeing but Klopp's right about Karius's confidence going completely after his first mistake. It was a terrible game to watch really, with Salah having to go off as well — luck totally against them :sick:.

[honeykid]

Liverpool knew they needed a keeper. Whether the board couldn't get the deal done or Klopp hadn't identified his target I don't know (but suspect the first as it sounds as if they wanted Alisson in January though that might be butt covering) but they need to do it this summer if they want to do more than get 3rd or 4th. That's only half the battle though, IMO, I've said it for years, but Liverpool's main problem is they get up for the big games, then mess up against the 'lesser' teams. This season was no different to most of the last 20 or so in that regard.

[honeykid]

So much to say from the last page or so, so if you'll forgive me I'll post again.

Pep is a very different manager. His Barcelona was without a doubt one of the most spectacular teams of all time, because the man is a genius!
You say "spectacular" I say boring. Don't get me wrong, the final three passes might be exciting, but it's snoresville till then for me. I'd also say the genius of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta as well as Eto'o, Busquets, Pique, Puyol and God knows who else might've had something to do with it the success of those years.

He knows how to handle a lockerroom, he knows how to build a team from scratch if he needs it, he can develop young players and he's tactically perfect.
Tactically perfect? Does one thing regardless. It works a hell of a lot of the time (especially because he has great players and the money to get what he wants) but only having one tactic isn't the same as being tactically perfect, IMO. Don't get me wrong, he's great. I'd love him at United and he deserves the praise he gets, but it goes a little too far IMO sometimes and sometimes is just incorrect. At Bayern he twice came up against the big boys of Spain and lost both ties and, if I remember correctly, all four legs. This year City went out to Liverpool, managed by a man who's beaten Pep on more than one occasion despite have 'lesser' players each time. Why isn't Klopp the genius?

Don't answer that. I know why he's not. And, again, I'm not saying that Pep is bad or that Klopp is better. I'm just pointing out that being repeatedly beaten by a style of play, despite having superior players, and not changing doesn't make someone tactically perfect IMO. It makes them Arsene Wenger and he's spent the last 10 year being told he's past it. The difference? His style/tactic stopped winning in a changing world. If Pep's does, will he still be a genius or yesterday's man?

And we can't forget how Madrid won the CL this year... They were one of the less deserving teams of the last 8 and benefitted from a very unusual amount of incredible mistakes from the referees and other teams' players, against Juve, Bayern and Liverpool... And I won't start describing what Ramos did...
Any team which wins a cup or title will have been lucky numerous times. I just can't accept that you can luck into three consecutive CL wins unless we agree that every team 'lucks' into their win. I wouldn't say that about a team which reached the final three times, let alone won it.

Well he was doing something right :). I meant that there'll be the argument: well he was bound to win anyway with those players/resources. But what if he goes to a lesser team and still gets great results? That's going to be interesting. I have no idea how he is tactically, but I do know that, regardless of who you are in world football, when Zidane talks, you listen.
I think that's what everyone is interested in seeing. Some to slam him, others to praise him. Personally I'll just be interested in seeing him develop.

I remember Jose Mourinho saying about the difference in the leagues in countries like Spain and Italy where you pretty much have one of two top teams winning every season and nobody else comes close, and how the Premier League is very different in that respect, being more competitive and less predictable.
I agree with this for the most part, but I think there is a little too much put out there with the Premier League being this 3-6 horse race. It's just not the case. The main difference, IMO, is that in those other leagues it's the same 1 or 2 every year (with the occasional interloper) whereas, in England atm, there's small groups who are pretty close and then over half the league who could see a relegation battle.

For example, as things stand atm, is anyone other than City going to win the title next year? I don't think so. If there is, it'll be United. Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea will fight for the final two CL places. Arsenal might push the 5th place team. All that could be backwards and Emery comes in and wins the league in his first season. But while that wouldn't be Leicester stupid, I doubt much money will be put on it.

There's a summer and a World Cup to come. New managers to put in place and see how they do and nothing is guaranteed of course. However, City, PSG, Juventus, Barca and Bayern for the leagues next year. Even if that's not the case, few would put money against it at this time.



He could do. We still don't know what Arsene Wenger's going to be doing actually, but I would expect France to do well again in the World Cup. It was a bit of a sickener for them to lose in the Euro final.
I think France will go quite far in the World Cup however, anything but the final is underperforming for that squad and, considering the Euros loss, anything but a win will be enough to say goodbye to the water carrier.

I've got Germany V Brazil in the final (redemption for Brazil in case you're wondering) and while I can't remember where I put France out, I don't think it'll be enough if I'm right.


I must admit I quite like the way Pochettino keeps people guessing :p. He's just signed a new contract but he's saying "If Real call, I'd have to listen".

Real aren't usually the club to do something radical and choosing a coach without a trophy to his name would be radical for them. I think he'd do really well so long as the dressing room listened to him, but I'm not sure that group would. I've seen Guti's name mentioned. I have no idea if that's the ZZ trick again, but if I was a betting man I'd be looking at Conte for Real. He fits the profile.

Lastly, resopamenic what do you think of Emery as your new manager?

[SmudgeEFC1985]

Liverpool knew they needed a keeper. Whether the board couldn't get the deal done or Klopp hadn't identified his target I don't know (but suspect the first as it sounds as if they wanted Alisson in January though that might be butt covering) but they need to do it this summer if they want to do more than get 3rd or 4th. That's only half the battle though, IMO, I've said it for years, but Liverpool's main problem is they get up for the big games, then mess up against the 'lesser' teams. This season was no different to most of the last 20 or so in that regard.

Spot on, that has always been their downfall. Was it 2009 they finished 2nd having only lost 2 games all season and doubled Man United (1st) and Chelsea (3rd)? And all they could bang on about was how they were still the best team because of all that. No lads, taking 12 points off the teams around you is worthless if you're drawing too many home games with the likes of Fulham and West Ham, while Man United were battering everybody except you!

This season was exactly the same. All that giddiness over being the first team to beat City and smashing Arsenal 4-0 and getting to the CL final...they lost to Swansea, and picked up draws with the likes of Watford, Stoke and West Brom twice.

[neiba]

You say "spectacular" I say boring. Don't get me wrong, the final three passes might be exciting, but it's snoresville till then for me. I'd also say the genius of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta as well as Eto'o, Busquets, Pique, Puyol and God knows who else might've had something to do with it the success of those years.

Yeah, he had great players as every big team in the world as. However I never saw any team dominating another one as his Barca. I never thought it was boring, I always found it fascinating.
Besides, Barca created loads of chances each game while not allowing the same to the other team. I'd choose that any day compared to every exciting all offensive team like Liverpool or Madrid, which might be good on the counterattack but have poor defensive moments.

Tactically perfect? Does one thing regardless. It works a hell of a lot of the time (especially because he has great players and the money to get what he wants) but only having one tactic isn't the same as being tactically perfect, IMO. Don't get me wrong, he's great. I'd love him at United and he deserves the praise he gets, but it goes a little too far IMO sometimes and sometimes is just incorrect. At Bayern he twice came up against the big boys of Spain and lost both ties and, if I remember correctly, all four legs. This year City went out to Liverpool, managed by a man who's beaten Pep on more than one occasion despite have 'lesser' players each time. Why isn't Klopp the genius?

Don't answer that. I know why he's not. And, again, I'm not saying that Pep is bad or that Klopp is better. I'm just pointing out that being repeatedly beaten by a style of play, despite having superior players, and not changing doesn't make someone tactically perfect IMO. It makes them Arsene Wenger and he's spent the last 10 year being told he's past it. The difference? His style/tactic stopped winning in a changing world. If Pep's does, will he still be a genius or yesterday's man?

He has a vision, as every manager has. Especifically if you manage a team like Barca, you shouldn't have to dramatically change your game philosophy every game. But there's something that Pep's teams have more than any other team: all the players have to know exactly how to behave on the field at every given moment, or else the entire system goes away. That's what he had on Barca, that is what he's building on ManCity, I believe though it may take a while. He was never able to do that in Germany though, hence his lack of success... (and I've seen him playing differently when he was at Bayern, against Madrid and Porto)
Guardiola's style has been imitated countless times all over the world, without getting even close to the results he gets. I don't find that luck. It proves that there's something about what he does that's simply better than everyone else. Like Mourinho was at some point, though he had different strengths... I think Mou never had the same ability to read the game but compensated that with an impressive control of the locker room.

Any team which wins a cup or title will have been lucky numerous times. I just can't accept that you can luck into three consecutive CL wins unless we agree that every team 'lucks' into their win. I wouldn't say that about a team which reached the final three times, let alone won it.

I can't remember a team who won a CL with 3 goals offered by the GK in 2 games and 5 matches absolutely solved by the referree... I can't say anything against the first two CL wins but this one was simply unfair. They were among the bottom 4 among the last 8 teams.

[resopamenic]

You say "spectacular" I say boring. Don't get me wrong, the final three passes might be exciting, but it's snoresville till then for me. I'd also say the genius of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta as well as Eto'o, Busquets, Pique, Puyol and God knows who else might've had something to do with it the success of those years.i'll say barca found the momentum they build, players they nurtured in academy+right and capable manager with their philosophy and DNA, and ofc luck

Tactically perfect? Does one thing regardless. It works a hell of a lot of the time (especially because he has great players and the money to get what he wants) but only having one tactic isn't the same as being tactically perfect, IMO. personally -from mine layman pov and common understanding of the game- there is no such thing as "perfect" tactic instead of effort for perfection. basically barca system of play is to impose their way game into the opponent which is not rely much on tactic versatility. we can see that from rinus to johan cruijf era -and yeah arsene wenger also has the same apporach- pep maybe follow the great example of his guru but also he found the way perfecting it along with right ingredients in that squad. it's just that when you played in such way and too overpowered your opponent , what suppose to be beatiful and attractive game could end as boring of possession play

Don't answer that. I know why he's not. And, again, I'm not saying that Pep is bad or that Klopp is better. I'm just pointing out that being repeatedly beaten by a style of play, despite having superior players, and not changing doesn't make someone tactically perfect IMO. It makes them Arsene Wenger and he's spent the last 10 year being told he's past it. The difference? His style/tactic stopped winning in a changing world. If Pep's does, will he still be a genius or yesterday's man? so far we could say that klopp's gegenpressing is like antithesis for pep -
well arsene is slave for his own principle on game. man that one known as innovator and revolutionary but end up as obstinate, outdate oldman

Lastly, resopamenic what do you think of Emery as your new manager?i think it's fine, logical choice. but i realy dont/cant held high hope . well i suppose my pessimism already too strong for all those years lol -no this is nnot arsenal fan tv xD-
well i sorta like emery though, long since his time in valencia already put nose on him. this probably the real test for him more than his short time in PSG -
predict it will be just another arsenal trying to strive from mediocrity, which mean another battle of top four

[hell_storm2004]

When The Crystal Maze first came back here in the UK, as a charity special, with Stephen Merchant presenting, he had a lot of sport with Allardyce's then-recent England sacking :).


Ah the Crystal Maze. That is one blast from the past. What can i say.... "They dont make'em like they used to"!!


With Silva being touted as the next one (...or has he been confirmed??). Next season will be interesting. But i do get the feeling, no one at Everton has a clue how to run the club. Signings have been without a plan. Although Tosen seems to have settled in during the end of the season.


I have no idea how much power Kenwright has anymore within the board. It will be interesting to see what happens next season.


I became a United fan after watching the United/Everton FA Cup final of 94-95 season. :p


I could have easily have turned out to be an Evertonian. :)

[SmudgeEFC1985]

Ah the Crystal Maze. That is one blast from the past. What can i say.... "They dont make'em like they used to"!!


With Silva being touted as the next one (...or has he been confirmed??). Next season will be interesting. But i do get the feeling, no one at Everton has a clue how to run the club. Signings have been without a plan. Although Tosen seems to have settled in during the end of the season.


I have no idea how much power Kenwright has anymore within the board. It will be interesting to see what happens next season.


I became a United fan after watching the United/Everton FA Cup final of 94-95 season. :p


I could have easily have turned out to be an Evertonian. :)

Yes Silva is in, gave his first press conference today with new Director of Football Marcel Brands.

I really like Tosun, think he's gonna get better and better next season. Him and Walcott seem to have a good understanding of each other. And Sigurdsson is fit again having missed the last 3 months of the season, so I think the three of them together, with a far more ambitious manager should at least give us so much improvement on last season's horror show.

As for last season's signings, I think the biggest problem with most was not necessarily that they were bad signings on their own, but we needed others to compliment them, if that makes sense? Michael Keane for example, great signing on paper, but given the age of Jagielka and Williams, we always needed to be looking at signing 2 centre halves last summer. Keane was poor for much of the season (who wouldnt be playing in a defence with Ashley Williams & Cuco Martina? Christ I still have nightmares about some of those games...) Klaassen and Sandro are both relatively young players from a foreign league who needed time to settle in, only for both to be written off way too quickly and ignored by Allardyce, instead of using them constructively and giving them a chance to gain that experience they need to possibly be better next season. Sandro came in as the only centre forward we signed last season having just sold £75 million Lukaku. A big ask for a 21 year old kid from Spain to come in and fill his boots immediately.

Overall, it's a big summer for us, because I dont think all of last summer's signings should be immediately written off. But we do still have some serious deadwood and guff infecting the squad. The likes of Mirallas, Bolasie, Williams, Schneiderlin, Niasse all not good enough or have completely the wrong attitude. Get rid immediately. The likes of Jagielka, Baines, Rooney (who might yet still be going to the US) are still good enough, but are getting on a bit, so we need to be thinking long term now and replacing them. We have a top set of youngsters who hopefully wont be relied on as much as last season, and can be given a bit more a break and time to develop, likes of Calvert-Lewin, Davies, Kenny. But despite all that, we have the basics of a good side. Pickford, Coleman, Baines, Gueye, Walcott, Sigurdsson and Tosun are the spine we need to be building around.

[hell_storm2004]

Yes. They need to repair the back line. Williams is slowwwwww. Jegielka is getting old. Baines is aging. Keane needs a better partner and good backup. Mori is rubbish.


Rest of the squad is pretty young but talented. Rooney is set to leave. Sigurdsson is still alright, but never was really graced with pace to begin with. They would need another striker, a few CBs and one pacey midfielder, either by promoting from within or by signing. Bolasie is good, his injury ruined the season. But i think he can play a good part on the wings.


Lookman does look very very promising. I would like to see him given a run in the first team at some point of time.

[SmudgeEFC1985]

Bolasie is a dreadful footballer. I think all his injury has showed us that without pace, he cant hide his multitude of other sins. Im still stunned that in January we sold Lennon but kept him. He's utterly brainless, just does not have a single clue about anything beyond the basics of football (i.e. I run try and beat the man and smack it really hard towards the goal when I get close enough) Movement, awareness of teammates and opponents. Watching him is like watching a schoolboy play.

I like Lookman, very raw but gives us something nobody else we have does. I've heard he might go out on loan again next season, which would probably do him good, the loan in Germany was very good for him.

[hell_storm2004]

Didn't Lennon have that mental problem thingy? I am still unclear as it was not much on the news.


Lookman, if there is a chance, should stay on in Leipzig. That is a good club where young players are given a good run.

[SmudgeEFC1985]

Yes he did, it was more towards the end of the season before last when he just disappeared from the squad and at the time, nobody had a clue why (I dont think Koeman ever rated him and he had barely figured at all that season anyway) and then it came out that he had been sectioned. He got back in the team this season after Koeman was sacked, and despite the fact I think he has limitations, he's a useful player to have and always gives it everything (which is solid gold when you've got players like Mirallas who have talent Lennon can only dream of yet none of the application). He did an interview after he signed for Burnley about the support he received since, https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aaron-lennon-shares-reflective-new-11778370

[MovieMad16]

Didn't Lennon have that mental problem thingy? I am still unclear as it was not much on the news.

Neil Lennon? He had depression years ago.

Unless you're talking about another Lennon.

[hell_storm2004]

Neil Lennon? He had depression years ago.

Unless you're talking about another Lennon.


Aaron! It was just early this year or late last year when the news broke.

[SeeingisBelieving]

Ah the Crystal Maze. That is one blast from the past. What can i say.... "They dont make'em like they used to"!!

Up to a point maybe but I've been amazed at what they have managed to do with it. Getting Richard Ayoade was genius because he's bringing the kind of arch humour and sarcasm that I loved about Richard O'Brien :).

[honeykid]

Yeah, he had great players as every big team in the world as. However I never saw any team dominating another one as his Barca. I never thought it was boring, I always found it fascinating.
Besides, Barca created loads of chances each game while not allowing the same to the other team.
I agree and that's why it's boring to me. For me, that's like a training session and I have no interest in watching training. Others go to the grounds and watch the training sessions. It's horses for courses.

I also agree that big teams have great players (though United have been pushing that one until a couple of seasons ago) but I honestly don't think I've seen a team like that Barca team and that midfield was the main reason. Messi is, arguably, the best player in the history of the game and Xavi and Inniesta are generational talents. To have them both in the same position and team? That almost never happens anywhere.

I'd choose that any day compared to every exciting all offensive team like Liverpool or Madrid, which might be good on the counterattack but have poor defensive moments.
Again, I have no problem with this, but I'm at the opposite end. I hate Liverpool, but I'd much rather watch them play than that Barca team.


But there's something that Pep's teams have more than any other team: all the players have to know exactly how to behave on the field at every given moment, or else the entire system goes away.
I think this is the crux of the matter. For me, this is coaching. Not tactics. I have no doubt that he's the best coach out there and I'm not sure his ability and approach in this respect can be argued. Whether he could do it with 'lesser' players isn't really a thing because he'll never have to. I think what I think of or class as coaching, you've described as tactics. Taking that word, I'm with you 100%.

I can't remember a team who won a CL with 3 goals offered by the GK in 2 games and 5 matches absolutely solved by the referree... I can't say anything against the first two CL wins but this one was simply unfair. They were among the bottom 4 among the last 8 teams.
OK, the final is a given (though I still don't think that means you can say that Liverpool would've won) but which were the matches which Real won thanks to the ref? I'll be completely up front with you. Please don't say Juventus. I don't care which other 5 you bring up, but that game has as many pluses for Juve as it does minuses, it's a stonewall penalty at the end and Buffon (as wonderful as he is/was/has been) deserved to be sent off.

Again, I'm not telling anyone that Madrid are the best team in Europe. I said on the last page, I think City are the only really good team in Europe. I'll go further, I expect them to be really good next season.

neiba While I have you here, what can you tell me about Diogo Dalot?

[SmudgeEFC1985]

OK, the final is a given (though I still don't think that means you can say that Liverpool would've won) but which were the matches which Real won thanks to the ref? I'll be completely up front with you. Please don't say Juventus. I don't care which other 5 you bring up, but that game has as many pluses for Juve as it does minuses, it's a stonewall penalty at the end and Buffon (as wonderful as he is/was/has been) deserved to be sent off.

Again, I'm not telling anyone that Madrid are the best team in Europe. I said on the last page, I think City are the only really good team in Europe. I'll go further, I expect them to be really good next season.

Correct. On paper it looks like Real got lucky as hell with that Juve game, but it was a definite penalty. An absolutely desperate clumsy challenge that if your team were on the end of it, especially in the last seconds of a European quarter final, you'd be outraged if it wasnt given. Yes, the Bayern keeper made a dreadful howler against them in the semi, but Bayern had more than enough chances to win both legs of that tie, they just didnt take them. Fact is, Madrid finishing 2nd in their group behind Spurs meant they had as difficult a run to the final as any winners have probably ever had, having to play the champions of France, Italy and Germany to get there, and they found a way. PSG they didnt start the first leg but came back and blew them away, Juventus they outclassed in the first leg before underperforming in the second, Bayern they were resilient when they had to be and took their chances when they came. No side has ever won the European Cup by playing brilliant attacking football in every game of the run, it's about doing what you need to do to get through. To me there is no question that Real were the best team in the competition this season.

As for luck, every team has luck in their run. As easy as Liverpool's 2 legged win over City looked on paper, City had a goal wrongly disallowed in both legs at crucial times. The one in the first leg has denied them an away goal which has the potential to make an enormous difference, and the second stopped them going in at half time of the second leg only 1 goal behind.

[neiba]

OK, the final is a given (though I still don't think that means you can say that Liverpool would've won) but which were the matches which Real won thanks to the ref? I'll be completely up front with you. Please don't say Juventus. I don't care which other 5 you bring up, but that game has as many pluses for Juve as it does minuses, it's a stonewall penalty at the end and Buffon (as wonderful as he is/was/has been) deserved to be sent off.

Again, I'm not telling anyone that Madrid are the best team in Europe. I said on the last page, I think City are the only really good team in Europe. I'll go further, I expect them to be really good next season.

neiba While I have you here, what can you tell me about Diogo Dalot?

The two matches against Bayern were a scandal... And Ramos should hv been sent off at the final...

About Dalot... I'm pretty disappointed with the kid... He might become one of the best full backs of his generations, but I was hoping to have him here for one season more... His dad, who's also his agent, kept Porto away from renewing contract all season, never saying no but always postponing. He ends up leaving one week after we lose our main right fullback to Leicester (Ricardo) for a ridiculously low amount of money.

He is quick, quite strong physically, has a good positioning game for someone so young, does well at crossing and is not bad at defending either... He's probably the best player who Porto produced in many many years so if he adapts well, you might just hv hit the jackpot.

Even so, I think it would be better for him to have waited one more season to play regularly instead of going to the bench at ManUn! He would be part of the starting team here, next year, no doubt, our manager had already admitted that!

[honeykid]

The two matches against Bayern were a scandal... And Ramos should hv been sent off at the final...
I think SmudgeEFC1985 has already said what I would've about the Bayern games. Bayern were the better team in both legs of the tie and wasted the opportunity to put Real away. There were a few dodgy decisions, I don't remember the specifics but I remember thinking a Bayern player was lucky to stay on the pitch at one point.

As for Ramos, he always deserves to be sent off. I know it sounds flippant, but that's how he plays. He's been sent off God knows how many (I think it's 24 but I can't be bothered to check) but that's how he plays. After that amount of reds (and many more yellows and free kicks) it's not as if he's going to change, so all you can do in enforce the laws of the game. As for the final. It's a foul against Salah, but not a red card IMO (though as it's Ramos I'd have been happy to see him get one) and the second I'm not sure about. He's pushed into Karius, which is a foul, so I don't know if he can be carded for that or not. Though I don't remember thinking that the ref could've spotted it anyway. But I might be wrong.

About Dalot... I'm pretty disappointed with the kid... He might become one of the best full backs of his generations, but I was hoping to have him here for one season more... His dad, who's also his agent, kept Porto away from renewing contract all season, never saying no but always postponing. He ends up leaving one week after we lose our main right fullback to Leicester (Ricardo) for a ridiculously low amount of money.

He is quick, quite strong physically, has a good positioning game for someone so young, does well at crossing and is not bad at defending either... He's probably the best player who Porto produced in many many years so if he adapts well, you might just hv hit the jackpot.

Even so, I think it would be better for him to have waited one more season to play regularly instead of going to the bench at ManUn! He would be part of the starting team here, next year, no doubt, our manager had already admitted that!
He only has Valencia to beat for the right back spot. I wouldn't be too sure that he'll spend a lot of time on the bench. Obviously at his age you probably shouldn't play him all the time and as a new player in a new club, league and country you can never tell how they'll settle in. But I'd like to think he'll be challenging for the starting spot soon enough.

[MovieMad16]

I for one ain't feeling this World Cup.

Maybe its Russia hosting or just the fact that International Football isn't as exciting anymore.

[SmudgeEFC1985]

Dont know how accurate it is, but I think I heard that all of Ramos' red cards have come in La Liga or Spanish Cup games, he has never been sent off in the Champions League. Which doesnt really surprise me, as it's about adjusting your game to different opponents, but also different refs. Ramos is basically King Sh*thouse. Yes he's a top player too, but he also absolutely loves getting under the skin of opponent's better players. Salah actually grabbed him first, because he;d spent the first 20 minutes winding up, so put Salah off his game to the extent he's then getting involved. The fact the foul resulted in an injury is just unfortunate, Ramos had already done the minimum he set out to do and that was to diminish Salah's influence in the game. The fact an injury put him out completely was just a bonus. The Karius one, cant blame Ramos at all for that one, and nobody would have if it had been any other player. Van Dijk pushes him in the back, and his arm comes up as a reaction and it's just a collision with Karius.

[neiba]

I for one ain't feeling this World Cup.

Maybe its Russia hosting or just the fact that International Football isn't as exciting anymore.

My national team is FC Porto. The rest is just a waste of time.

[MovieMad16]

At least you're not Sporting CP right now.

[Fabulous]

At least you're not Sporting CP right now.

I feel bad for the real fans of the club. The sooner Carvalho is gone, the better.

[neiba]

At least you're not Sporting CP right now.

Ahaha, yeah, that's true... They have been receiving bad news every week for the past 3 months...

I feel bad for the real fans of the club. The sooner Carvalho is gone, the better.

Well, the surprise thing is that he'd probably win if he ran again!

[SeeingisBelieving]

I for one ain't feeling this World Cup.

Maybe its Russia hosting or just the fact that International Football isn't as exciting anymore.

I've been thinking that some of the pairings haven't been that exciting. I am trying to pace it out a bit more this time though. I don't want to be watching three matches a day :p. The next biggie for me is going to be Argentina v Croatia.

[neiba]

I'm annoyed by what modern football has become... Porto best striker of last year, Marega, just refused to train because he wants to go to West Ham... WEST HAM???

Between the possibility to win titles and play the CL every year, he prefers a team that won't ever win any title?

On the other hand, Brahimi refused to even deal with them. That's a relief.

[resopamenic]

Kroenke's full takeover and chamber goes on loan, again. Sad season gooner full throttle

[resopamenic]

I'm annoyed by what modern football has become... Porto best striker of last year, Marega, just refused to train because he wants to go to West Ham... WEST HAM???

Between the possibility to win titles and play the CL every year, he prefers a team that won't ever win any title?

On the other hand, Brahimi refused to even deal with them. That's a relief.premier league cash so tempting i guess.
Now even guy like paulinho absurdly back to farmer league from same reason i believe after impressive season with barca. I hope axel witsel didnt follow the same pattern after dortmund transfer

[Upton]

I don't really get why there's any opposition against all the big European leagues adopting the German player rule the Bundesliga still has. Would Man City really start hemorrhaging money if half their players had to be English

[honeykid]

I've been meaning to ask this for about a month or so now. neiba how are Wolverhampton Wanderers (Wolves) being viewed in Portugal? Are they the Portuguese equivalent of Arsenal/France over there or isn't it really a thing?

[neiba]

I've been meaning to ask this for about a month or so now. neiba how are Wolverhampton Wanderers (Wolves) being viewed in Portugal? Are they the Portuguese equivalent of Arsenal/France over there or isn't it really a thing?

That depends of your favorite Portuguese club. Guys from benfica and sporting don't really care, while the ones who root for FC Porto have mixed feelings about them.

on one hand, there's many ex FC Porto players (including the manager), some of them who we really care about, like Neves and Moutinho.

But we also know that it's one of those private teams for Jorge Mendes so we hate that, because the man is trash and has a past of hurting the club that we don't forget. At the moment, we are all for dismissing all the players who are managed by him.

I would guess most Portuguese people root for teams like United, Liverpool or Arsenal.

[neiba]

honeykid, what did you think of Mou's press conference after the match against Totthenham?
How is he viewed among United fans?

[SeeingisBelieving]

I've been meaning to ask this for about a month or so now. @neiba (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=85193) how are Wolverhampton Wanderers (Wolves) being viewed in Portugal? Are they the Portuguese equivalent of Arsenal/France over there or isn't it really a thing?

Can I just say the design of Wolves' kit for this season is the best in the Premier League.

[honeykid]

honeykid, what did you think of Mou's press conference after the match against Totthenham?
How is he viewed among United fans?

The respect comments? It's silly and it's classic Mou. The team isn't good enough, they missed chances to put themselves in a good position (looking mainly at Rom here) and then seem to have fallen away the moment Spurs scored because they know they're done.

I don't know how other United fans see him. Honestly I think it's been fairly split between those who never wanted him and those who were happy for him to be there because he's someone who could turn it round.

Sadly, I think his time is done. If you don't give him what he wants, then there's no point hiring him but now, even if he got everything he wanted, I don't think the players or the fans would give him the time. The whole thing is a mess that comes from a lack of leadership and/or ineptitude. I'll say the same I said to JD when he asked me. I'd get rid of both him and Woodward because they've both had their time, IMO. The only difference is I'd have gotten rid of Woodward 5 years ago. Which is when I wanted Mou as he'd have been the perfect candidate to take over from Fergie.

[neiba]

The respect comments? It's silly and it's classic Mou. The team isn't good enough, they missed chances to put themselves in a good position (looking mainly at Rom here) and then seem to have fallen away the moment Spurs scored because they know they're done.

I don't know how other United fans see him. Honestly I think it's been fairly split between those who never wanted him and those who were happy for him to be there because he's someone who could turn it round.

Sadly, I think his time is done. If you don't give him what he wants, then there's no point hiring him but now, even if he got everything he wanted, I don't think the players or the fans would give him the time. The whole thing is a mess that comes from a lack of leadership and/or ineptitude. I'll say the same I said to JD when he asked me. I'd get rid of both him and Woodward because they've both had their time, IMO. The only difference is I'd have gotten rid of Woodward 5 years ago. Which is when I wanted Mou as he'd have been the perfect candidate to take over from Fergie.

Yeah, the players he has are not good enough, but the fact that he keeps reminding that to everyone doesn't help building trust and leadership with the team.

Also, he had the team he wanted supposedly last year and still didn't win the title.

In my opinion Mou would do well to step back a little bit and stop one year. He pretty much hasn't stopped since he began his career. Or maybe come back to FC Porto eheheheh!

[honeykid]

Yeah, the players he has are not good enough, but the fact that he keeps reminding that to everyone doesn't help building trust and leadership with the team.

Also, he had the team he wanted supposedly last year and still didn't win the title.

In my opinion Mou would do well to step back a little bit and stop one year. He pretty much hasn't stopped since he began his career. Or maybe come back to FC Porto eheheheh!

I disagree that he had the team he wanted last year (5 years since Fergie left and Jones and Smalling are still our central pairing? No one wants that) but I agree that he's spent a lot of money. What I would argue is has he spent it all? We know he hasn't gotten the people he wanted before, the problem now is that he's become part of the problem and a reason players won't go to United.

I don't see him going anytime soon unless this run continues for a few more games. CL will determine his fate at United, IMO. Getting dumped out early again or not qualifying for next year will probably be enough to provoke someone at United to make a decision. Knowing United, it will probably be at the wrong time and there'll be no one (or the wrong person) lined up to take over.

Even though it's been a while since anyone won back to back titles, I think City will do it this year. Finishing second to City was the best anyone could've done last year and I think it'll be the same this with the exception that it'll be the Scousers taking second. The problem is the football being played is poor and uninspiring. You can do that if you're winning titles (the previous season there were two trophies, so it's OK IMO) but if you're winning nothing you have to give the fans something and entertaining football or a genuine title race is the expectation.

I don't see any leadership or direction at the club, from the top down. Hopefully that's something which will start to be sorted this season.

[honeykid]

Well, as a United fan we got a pretty tough draw in the CL. How about you? If your team is playing in Europe this year, how did the draw treat you?

Group A: Atletico Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Monaco, Club Brugge.
Group B: Barcelona, Tottenham, PSV Eindhoven, Inter Milan.
Group C: Paris St-Germain, Napoli, Liverpool, Red Star Belgrade.
Group D: Lokomotiv Moscow, Porto, Schalke, Galatasaray.
Group E: Bayern Munich, Benfica, Ajax, AEK Athens.
Group F: Manchester City, Shakhtar Donetsk, Lyon, Hoffenheim.
Group G: Real Madrid, Roma, CSKA Moscow, Viktoria Plzen.
Group H: Juventus, Manchester United, Valencia, Young Boys.

If we don't get out of this group I can see Mou getting the sack before Christmas, unless we're doing really well in the league (and if we're doing well I'd expect us to qualify from this group regardless)

[Doolallyfrank]

Tottenham

Last year I think we had the toughest group so I'm excited to see how we do against Barcelona

When Guardiola was asked about his "easier group" he probably gave the perfect answer: "I'll tell you in December whether it was easy or not"

[SmudgeEFC1985]

I need to get in this thread more since football is all I do...

My big hot take of the summer is that I said Mourinho would be out of United by Christmas. There is always an air he gives off when he's had enough of a club or a situation, like he doesnt want to quit, but is basically irritating everybody above him until they sack him. It's all very reminiscent of the time he wanted John Stones off us, but when Abramovich said enough is enough and told him to go after someone else because he wasnt willing to keep going higher, Mourinho threw his toys out, signed Michael Hector and Papy Djilobodji, neither of whom I think ever played a game for Chelsea, and he was out in December.

Not a good day for us today, badly missed Richarlison, as well as Walcott once he went off injured. Lack of creativity without them was very worrying. And this zonal marking needs knocking on the head. Four games in a row we've now conceded direct from a corner...I get the feeling all standing in a line marking nobody isnt quite getting us anywhere...

[Nathaniel]

Arsenal

Sporting CP, Qarabag, FC Vorksla Poltava

Decent Europa League draw and I can see Emery using a weakened team in the group stage similar to what Wenger did last year. Welbeck :leo:

The hope is that Aubameyang starts firing tomorrow. He looks well short of confidence right now.

If we don't get out of this group I can see Mou getting the sack before Christmas, unless we're doing really well in the league (and if we're doing well I'd expect us to qualify from this group regardless)

Guaranteed sack if they drop out in the group stage but I think they'll sneak through. His style, both on the pitch and in the press is alienating any United fan I know. He's currently the favourite to be the next manger out though Pellegrini is closing.

[SeeingisBelieving]

Appalling to charge Jurgen Klopp for that pitch celebration :tsk:.

[honeykid]

It's not something he's allowed to do, therefore he's been charged. But, yes, I can understand anyone thinking it's petty. On the plus side, at £8,000, it's not like he'll miss it.

I didn't think it was disrespectful, I think he was just caught up in the moment (which I completely understand) but unless you keep to the laws of the game, you set precedents.

[SeeingisBelieving]

It's not something he's allowed to do, therefore he's been charged. But, yes, I can understand anyone thinking it's petty. On the plus side, at £8,000, it's not like he'll miss it.

I didn't think it was disrespectful, I think he was just caught up in the moment (which I completely understand) but unless you keep to the laws of the game, you set precedents.
In this case I think the law needs changing – there are much more appropriate things to fine people for.

[honeykid]

There are. But there's also the problem that he's a fun, nice guy who hasn't won anything and has no real power with the FA. I'm not saying it wouldn't have happened to another manager, but did it happen to Fergie? Or Wenger? Now that man is Pep, not Klopp.

Bit of an odd one tonight. I expect Arsenal to win because we're just that bad/average atm and I worry that we're worse at home than we are away. I've not looked at the home/away table to see if that's right, but it's how I feel. If I thought it'd help, I'd hope that Arsenal really whacked us for 4 or 5 to usher Jose out the door, but I can't see that happening until the day we can't qualify for CL and/or get knocked out of the CL, which we will to the first half decent team we meet unless we fluke a hat full of goals in the first leg. The whole club is such a mess. I didn't think we'd win the title for at least five years after Fergie left, but I did think we'd at least be on the right road by now.

Lastly, although I'm bias because I can't see a best player in a team sport, can we all just agree that the Ballon D'or is pointless and let it go back to being something a French magazine gave out without ceremony? That, or admit that Ronaldo and Messi are footballing freaks who deserve to win the award every year until they're not producing anymore. I still wouldn't care who won it, but at least 'the best footballer in the world' would have an argument to claiming the 'title'.

[SeeingisBelieving]

Bit of an odd one tonight. I expect Arsenal to win because we're just that bad/average atm and I worry that we're worse at home than we are away. I've not looked at the home/away table to see if that's right, but it's how I feel. If I thought it'd help, I'd hope that Arsenal really whacked us for 4 or 5 to usher Jose out the door, but I can't see that happening until the day we can't qualify for CL and/or get knocked out of the CL, which we will to the first half decent team we meet unless we fluke a hat full of goals in the first leg. The whole club is such a mess. I didn't think we'd win the title for at least five years after Fergie left, but I did think we'd at least be on the right road by now.

I was thinking about the contrast between United and Arsenal in replacing their long-serving managers. Unai Emery seems to have performed a miracle whereas David Moyes couldn't get that kind of instant success. I honestly don't know who United could go for if Jose Mourinho went, but if they had a smile on their faces – like Klopp for example – I don't think it would hurt :p.

Lastly, although I'm bias because I can't see a best player in a team sport, can we all just agree that the Ballon D'or is pointless and let it go back to being something a French magazine gave out without ceremony? That, or admit that Ronaldo and Messi are footballing freaks who deserve to win the award every year until they're not producing anymore. I still wouldn't care who won it, but at least 'the best footballer in the world' would have an argument to claiming the 'title'.

I was pleased it went to Modric :).

[SeeingisBelieving]

During the highlights of that game last night I was wracking my brain to think who Unai Emery reminded me of. In the end it was this Steve Coogan character from The Day Today ;D:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjjXTr9F77g

[honeykid]

I was thinking about the contrast between United and Arsenal in replacing their long-serving managers. Unai Emery seems to have performed a miracle whereas David Moyes couldn't get that kind of instant success. I honestly don't know who United could go for if Jose Mourinho went, but if they had a smile on their faces – like Klopp for example – I don't think it would hurt :p.

There's so many reasons as to why it went so wrong. IMO, at least. But one of the main ones is that none of the 'big name' managers were available when Fergie retired (there's also the fact they weren't prepared for his leaving and that David Gill went too, but that's for another time). There's an argument as to whether they could've got Jose if they'd wanted him, but the truth is they didn't (or a sizeable number of the boardroom didn't and they still aren't happy about it.) Personally, I think he was the only man who could've done the job at that time and succeeded. Obviously I don't know if he would've, but he'd have done a lot better than Moyes because certain players would've respected him and, therefore, not been dickheads. Plus United would've had to loosen the purse strings earlier as Jose doesn't do bargain basement, as we all know.

As for last night, that's the first United game I've enjoyed in a long time. Not because we were great (or even good) but because they looked like they were trying to attack and score. Not all the time, of course, Arsenal were the better team and looked the more threatening, but it wasn't one way traffic and we had our moments. Slightly annoying that it took going behind twice to actually score, but that's something which goes back to the late Fergie era.

BTW, for those who haven't seen any of the goals and wants to see how not to defend, this game is for you. One goalkeeping mistake (though Dave Saves, so he's allowed to throw a couple in), two terrible examples of defending and one offside goal. Only just offside and not something you'd expect an official to spot, but next season that goal will be disallowed.

[SeeingisBelieving]

There's so many reasons as to why it went so wrong. IMO, at least. But one of the main ones is that none of the 'big name' managers were available when Fergie retired (there's also the fact they weren't prepared for his leaving and that David Gill went too, but that's for another time). There's an argument as to whether they could've got Jose if they'd wanted him, but the truth is they didn't (or a sizeable number of the boardroom didn't and they still aren't happy about it.) Personally, I think he was the only man who could've done the job at that time and succeeded. Obviously I don't know if he would've, but he'd have done a lot better than Moyes because certain players would've respected him and, therefore, not been dickheads. Plus United would've had to loosen the purse strings earlier as Jose doesn't do bargain basement, as we all know.

Yeah, I totally agree about the timing being optimum for Mourinho had he been available. I think it would have worked well. It's interesting about the money side too, as Moyes was known for doing a great job at Everton with such limited resources – but why should he go up a level and be forced to operate in the same way?

The comments about Mourinho's impassivity made me laugh too. When United got a goal back Jose was stoic as usual and I thought yeah, because he's probably thinking "You're Manchester United – that's what's supposed to happen" :D.

[Doolallyfrank]

And Jose Mourinho has been sacked by Manchester United, maybe saying in his interview how fantastic Liverpool are was the last straw?
I wouldn't want him as Tottenham's manager (there were rumours before Pochettino was appointed) as I think he plays boring football, but I love seeing his post-game interviews, they're comedy gold sometimes.
I think he's done with the premier league now, any team that would want him would be "beneath him"

[SeeingisBelieving]

And Jose Mourinho has been sacked by Manchester United, maybe saying in his interview how fantastic Liverpool are was the last straw?

Yeah, probably. Gary Neville was in tears apparently.

Just imagine if they got Roy Keane in as caretaker manager 😊.

I wouldn't want him as Tottenham's manager (there were rumours before Pochettino was appointed) as I think he plays boring football, but I love seeing his post-game interviews, they're comedy gold sometimes.
I think he's done with the premier league now, any team that would want him would be "beneath him"

Pochettino's good and I think he genuinely wants to try and win something with Tottenham before he considers leaving.

[gandalf26]

Keane would be popular with the fans but what are his recent credentials as a manager.

Glad Boreinho is gone, past his sell by date if you ask me, so afraid to lose that he cant win.

[SeeingisBelieving]

Keane would be popular with the fans but what are his recent credentials as a manager.

I was just thinking of the intimidation factor ;).

I mean, if Zidane came in Pogba might not find him as warm and fuzzy as he might expect…

[gandalf26]

Yea you are right, no one would **** with Keane.

[JoaoRodrigues]

FC Porto is almost my nationality, so José Mourinho is a milestone in my history, he won a Champions League and it was here he made himself known. He was important in almost every club he passed, has a very strong personality which leads him to be loved when he wins and hated when he loses. I think he's old, not in age but in mentality. He learned a lot from a man named José Maria Pedroto, Pedroto reinvented the game but wasn't a very strong name internationally, one of the first FC Porto victories in the Manchester United field was in Pedroto's era, before the match Pedroto said: "I come here to explore the stupidity that is the English football", that was something Mourinho would say, there was a mentality that English football was "ball forward and faith in God", not many tactics, that doesn't apply as much today. Mourinho should had learned from his last Chelsea passage that players nowadays have agents, and exorbitant amounts of money invested in them, he cannot simply criticize them publicly and expect no repercussions. A few years ago Jose Mourinho was the best without any doubt, today either he reinvents himself or he will have to look for another league with another type of players. Today we don't have mans playing football, he can't talk to players thinking they are Zlatans.

https://j.gifs.com/BBy3jJ.gif

[gandalf26]

Oh God, Liverpool are actually going to win the league aren't they.

[christine]

Oh God, Liverpool are actually going to win the league aren't they.

Yes they are. I couldn't physically say these words as they'd stick in my craw, but it's exciting times if you're a redsh*te supporter as they're playing great entertaining footie.

[honeykid]

Shut up! Shut up! Shutupshutupshutupshutupshutup.


LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA

[Nathaniel]

^ :lol:

Yesterday was hard to watch as an Arsenal fan. Absolute shambles at the back with Lichtsteiner all over the show.

There's no way back for anyone if Liverpool beat City on Thursday.

[Daniel M]

As a Liverpool fan I'm obviously enjoying this season a lot. I can't quite believe how it has all changed in the last few weeks. Don't want to get ahead of myself and like to see myself as a cautious and realistic fan, but if we win thursday... surely... surely...


Just mad how much difference Van Dijk has made, what a player. Always sounds so surreal when everyone praises our defence now. Eight goals in twenty games was unimaginable with Klopp's early days.

[honeykid]

Frankly, I think the only chance the rest of us have is that the fans choke Liverpool with just how much they want it.

[gandalf26]

Many Liverpool fans on my Facebook. They are going to be insufferable if they win after years of abuse.

[Doolallyfrank]

Don't forget what happened to, for example, Arsenal in 02/03. They were 8 points clear at one point and choked. Think it was similar with Newcastle, maybe even Liverpool too? I just remember the Arsenal one because the bookies were paying out on them early and United went on to nick it
It's the prem, anything can and does happen, that's why it's the best league in the world

[christine]

anyway I don't care about them, I'm just glad I don't live at home anymore and have to listen to their showing off

[honeykid]

Don't forget what happened to, for example, Arsenal in 02/03. They were 8 points clear at one point and choked. Think it was similar with Newcastle, maybe even Liverpool too? I just remember the Arsenal one because the bookies were paying out on them early and United went on to nick it
It's the prem, anything can and does happen, that's why it's the best league in the world

Yep, it's always possible, which is what gives me hope. That, and the fact that City are a really good team. These things do happen, I just hope it happens again.

Honestly, if it wasn't for Ole reminding United that they're Manchester United, this could be the worst season of my supporting life. I mean, hoping City win the title? No one should have to suffer this.

[Chypmunk]

Took 7/1 on the Pool at the start of the season so I'm happy enough they are where they are at the moment and hope they can stay there.

[christine]

I had a bet on Everton winning 3-1 on the Spurs match before Xmas, so everyone thought that was really funny. Had another 3-1 punt on Boxing Day but gladly lost in favour of such a big win. My other two subsequent 3-1 bets went down the drain. There's something I love about a 3-1 scoreline. I wish Everton would listen to me.
That's what being an Evertonian does for you - puts you in the land of eternal dreams

[Optimus]

I had a bet on Everton winning 3-1 on the Spurs match before Xmas, so everyone thought that was really funny. Had another 3-1 punt on Boxing Day but gladly lost in favour of such a big win. My other two subsequent 3-1 bets went down the drain. There's something I love about a 3-1 scoreline. I wish Everton would listen to me.
That's what being an Evertonian does for you - puts you in the land of eternal dreams

I'm a big Everton fan myself, Bets have not been going my way lately either.

[christine]

Ah Optimus, fellow soul in disappointments ;)

[Chypmunk]

I've made my fortune this season by waiting for Arsenal to go a goal down and then backing them to win or draw.
Thankfully they took a surprise lead against Liverpool at the weekend and saved me money :D

[JoaoRodrigues]

People just don't listen, it was expected Liverpool winning this year. Jürgen Klopp said it right in the first day that Liverpool would win the League in five years.

[christine]

Didn’t know that Klopp was Nostradamus as well!

[gandalf26]

The whole world are city fans tonight.

[Doolallyfrank]

The race is heating up

[Doolallyfrank]

Special mention for Newcastle's Salomon Rondon this week, haven't seen sportsmanship like that since Di Canio against Everton. Top guy

[honeykid]

You could see him looking at him the moment he went down. He knew something was wrong from the start.

Still people calling for Ole to be given the job at Old Trafford. Can't we just enjoy the fact we're playing entertaining football (in the attacking sense. Defending is still pretty poor when pressed) and see what the end of the season brings? I'd like Ole to have the job and, maybe, it's the right appointment. But giving it now with so little evidence (and no idea whether Poch would/will take it if offered. Still think he'll go to Real) is the kind of emotional thinking which only fans should have the luxury to indulge.

Any Chelsea fans here? If so, what is it about Willian that you see that fans of other teams don't? I heard another Chelsea fan wishing he wasn't there today and they tell me he's a highlight player. That might be the case, but the highlights are pretty good. Is it that he doesn't do that all the time or is he actually bad when not being brilliant?

Also, how's Sarri doing?

[the samoan lawyer]

[quote=honeykid;1984140]You could see him looking at him the moment he went down. He knew something was wrong from the start.

Still people calling for Ole to be given the job at Old Trafford. Can't we just enjoy the fact we're playing entertaining football (in the attacking sense. Defending is still pretty poor when pressed) and see what the end of the season brings? I'd like Ole to have the job and, maybe, it's the right appointment. But giving it now with so little evidence (and no idea whether Poch would/will take it if offered. Still think he'll go to Real) is the kind of emotional thinking which only fans should have the luxury to indulge.

Any Chelsea fans here? If so, what is it about Willian that you see that fans of other teams don't? I heard another Chelsea fan wishing he wasn't there today and they tell me he's a highlight player. That might be the case, but the highlights are pretty good. Is it that he doesn't do that all the time or is he actually bad when not being brilliant?


Defending is still a shambles at United. As much as its great seeing United more attacking now, every game has heart in your mouth moments when we defend, even against the lesser teams. Still, like I said, brilliant to see a much needed change in playing style and players finally seem happy. I cant see it happening but imagine the difference to our season should we get a really good, experience cb.


I'm with you on Willian, I'd take him in a heartbeat. Although would be a shame to leave out Martial or whoever else.

[resopamenic]

Milinstat's leaving and now its confirmed that bellerin will miss the rest of the season 😭

[hell_storm2004]

Glory Glory Man United.

[honeykid]

I don't know how widely reported this story is, but it looks like it's making national news here now. It's not looking good. :(

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-guernsey-46954922

So, something lighter, and a story which reminds us that football players (and all sportsmen and sportswomen) are just people like us.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-46950567

[Doolallyfrank]

The missing plane is nuts, hopefully there'll be good news.

I want Ole to get the job, was a fan when he played and I think he's earned a shot at a full season, I'm hoping Poch wants a full season at the new stadium too. As a Spurs fan I can't really give an unbiased opinion on Willian

[christine]

Very sad news about Emiliano Sala, been hoping all day that they’d find them alive but it doesn’t look good now :(

Hun - that story about Hernandez made me laugh - bless ‘im!

[hell_storm2004]

2 days missing. The chances are next to nothing now. But there have been a few recuses that went on longer. But the only question is, the plane went missing like the MH370. Just hoping against hope that he is floating on some debris somewhere.

[honeykid]

Seems as if wreckage is starting to appear. It sounds a bit off, but I'm pleased about this. His family are obviously not going to believe it until they have proof and this might start the grieving process.

Horrible night last night for Manchester and the nice half of Scouseland (and, quite possibly, most other Premier League fans, considering how much they won't shut up if/when they win it). Made all the worse by the fact it was Newcastle and how happy their manager would've been.

I didn't see the game last night, but it sounds as if we were pretty poor until the changes and wasteful. If that's the case, I'm sure Ole will have learned a lot more in those 90+ minutes than he did in the previous 720 about who can and can't be trusted to play the way he wants them to. I've heard some saying he shouldn't have changed the team (new record, don't change a winning team and all that) but he needs to allow some players to play themselves in or out of future selections. Especially if he does have one eye on keeping the job, which he surely must do, even if he doesn't expect it to happen.

Looks like Fellaini is off to China. I wish him well. I know he's not 'an United player' but he's never looked like someone who wasn't trying, was always ready to play and scored some important goals. Besides, it's not as if we thought we were getting Ronaldo mkII when we bought him. So while his leaving gives me hope that United are looking to play more like we currently are and not like we have been for the last 5 years, I still wish him well.

[Doolallyfrank]

Well I'm stoked that Tottenham have managed to scrape a few important league wins recently, going out of 2 cups hurts a bit but every cloud....

In other news this week, Klopp is moaning at Kyle Walker's "unprofessional behaviour" regarding a tweet after Liverpool V Leicester
51376
Personally I like a bit of banter between clubs, Theo Walcott and Jack Wilshire were always stirring the pot when Spurs v Arsenal was around the corner. I thought Kyle's tweet was pretty funny, wasn't insulting or mean to anyone, bit disappointed in Klopp really as he normally has a good sense of humour

[christine]

Klopp is such a moaner. He wants to be on the other side of Stanley Park, we'd give him something to moan about

[Doolallyfrank]

See I didn't really think he was a moaner, he's usually "that's part of the game and why we love it" kind of mentality, hoping this is a one-off

[honeykid]

Klopp is such a moaner. He wants to be on the other side of Stanley Park, we'd give him something to moan about

What is going on with Marco? Is he just version2.0 of Roberto?

Ugly second half today, but we hung in there, rode our luck a little, and came out with the win. It's a good habit to start but Ole must be wondering why the change from the first half, when we were OK and beating them to every second ball. Or that's how it seemed.

[christine]

What is going on with Marco? Is he just version2.0 of Roberto?

Looks like it doesn't it? so disappointing week after week. No spirit at all.:(

[Doolallyfrank]

Everton need a striker, a focal point, a young Giroud

[christine]

They do but they need to get rid of some high wage players off the books too

[honeykid]

They do but they need to get rid of some high wage players off the books too

Do they, though? I mean, it's always good to get rid of high earning players who aren't first team regulars, but the amount of money the guys put in and could still do, I don't think there's any real need to get them out in order to bring in others, is there? Are there FFP worries I'm unaware of?

The money he's put forward has been almost completely wasted though. I'm still not sure why £40m+ was turned down for Gueye. Good player, but 29 and not essential (IMO) to Everton or how they play. I'm guessing it's a way of letting the world know that Everton don't have to sell anyone and putting themselves up as getting ready to make the leap, but I think you need to pick your battles and this was one you could've allowed to leave and still have it looked as a victory. It's not as if he was leaving for another Premier League club.

I'm still not convinced by Richarlison, but at least he has value and time to improve.

[Doolallyfrank]

Who are the big earners though? I would guess Gylfi, Theo and Schneiderlin? All players that can still deliver when it counts (OK maybe not so much Schneiderlin but he's had injuries)

[Doolallyfrank]

Sad news today, Emiliano Sala's body was found in the wreckage underwater :(

[christine]

Do they, though? I mean, it's always good to get rid of high earning players who aren't first team regulars, but the amount of money the guys put in and could still do, I don't think there's any real need to get them out in order to bring in others, is there? Are there FFP worries I'm unaware of?

The money he's put forward has been almost completely wasted though. I'm still not sure why £40m+ was turned down for Gueye. Good player, but 29 and not essential (IMO) to Everton or how they play. I'm guessing it's a way of letting the world know that Everton don't have to sell anyone and putting themselves up as getting ready to make the leap, but I think you need to pick your battles and this was one you could've allowed to leave and still have it looked as a victory. It's not as if he was leaving for another Premier League club.

I'm still not convinced by Richarlison, but at least he has value and time to improve.

Not massively convinced by him either. He still needs to step up his game. I like Bernard, he’s a grafter and think he should be in the starting team more. Let’s see what happens. We either let Silva go, but more likely I think Moshiri will keep faith with him and see if we can get some goalscorers in the next transfer window.


Who are the big earners though? I would guess Gylfi, Theo and Schneiderlin? All players that can still deliver when it counts (OK maybe not so much Schneiderlin but he's had injuries)

Maybe but they’re not delivering, Gylfi specially has been ineffective this season.The best players in yesterday’s defeat were the youngsters Tom Davies and Jonjo Kenny. Zouma who showed a lot of spirit Is only ours on loan.
We are playing boring footie and us Evertonians are looking forward to 17 football-less days to have a big of peace

[Doolallyfrank]

But Gylfi needs people making runs, as soon as he gets the balls his head is up, that's why he wasn't great for spurs, he wants to be the playmaker as he has no pace.
Bernard should be one of the first names on the team sheet for sure

[Yam12]

RIP Gordon Banks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngE9RCAdWaE

[honeykid]

A real legend. RIP Gordon.

Blind in one eye for the last few years of his career and yet was still good enough to play as a goalkeeper professionally. Amazing.

[hell_storm2004]

We got schooled by PSG last night! :sick:

[Doolallyfrank]

We got schooled by PSG last night! :sick:

I always want Premier League clubs to go as far as possible in european competitions, was a shame, stupid 2nd yellow from Pogba, he did a similar thing against Tottenham and caught Alli with his studs, he'll end up really hurting someone if he's not careful

Never would've guessed that we'd punish Dortmund like that! It's not a done deal as anything can and will happen in football, but I'm far from nervous about going through

[hell_storm2004]

The second half was a complete turnaround. First half Spurs never looked like scoring at all. Goes to show, the Dortmund although being a good side, being young, have a lot to learn about Europe.

[Doolallyfrank]

The second half was a complete turnaround. First half Spurs never looked like scoring at all. Goes to show, the Dortmund although being a good side, being young, have a lot to learn about Europe.

They were missing Reus for sure.
If it's any consolation, I wouldn't bet against United turning it around. They've had bigger hills to climb, they've always been that kind of team. I'll be cheering for you (but only so Ole gets the job and Poch stays where he is :D )

[hell_storm2004]

Haha! The Pogba red was a soft one. The tie is over. I don't see us making it to next round and without Pogba, if there was a 5% chance, now its down to 0.5%. And they have Cavani to return and Verratti to get back to full fitness and form by then. It might get ugly in Paris, if United be all gung-ho about it.

[Doolallyfrank]

The 1st yellow was soft, everyone knows when you're on a yellow you don't mistime a tackle or do anything stupid, in a game like this that was a big moment. Herrera, Matic, lingard, Lukaku, Rashford and Sanchez would be my front 6 for it, could be a season defining match for Sanchez

[hell_storm2004]

Still wont make it with that team. Eagerly waiting for next Pool Bayern... oooooooooooo! I hope Bayern just score 3-4 on the first leg.

[honeykid]

We got schooled by PSG last night! :sick:

We were, but it was expected, wasn't it? The reaction I've seen over here in the 24 hours after was as if we'd been the favourites for the tie. Or the 'old' United. I can't see how anyone who has been paying attention in the last 5 years would have us as the winners of that tie over two legs. In a one off game? Sure, it happens. It happened with Spurs in the league where we could've lost by quite a few but ended up winning. But over two legs I think PSG were odds on with the bookies.

The two injuries were key and made the second half a lot easier for PSG than it might've been otherwise, but they're a better team with better players. They had more nous, too. Every other counter attack was stopped after the first pass or when we made the break. This is what the best teams do all over Europe. Especially away from home. Watch City or Juve, Barca or Real. As soon as they lose the ball and the break is on they make a niggly foul so they can regroup, regain their shape and drop back. But as it's just a small foul, it usually won't draw a card. Obviously it is a professional foul, but isn't seen the same way as a deliberate pull or trip but has the same effect.

Shorn of their pace, United don't really have much else. Especially if Pogba is isolated or man marked, which is what PSG did in the second half, leading to him getting more and more frustrated and the second yellow. That in itself pretty much killed our chances for the second leg.

Great result for Spurs last night. I didn't see much of the game, but saw the last 15 minutes and they were just all over Dortmund. Reminded me a bit of PSG the night before.

[SeeingisBelieving]

I liked what Solskjaer said about mountains being there to be climbed :).

[Doolallyfrank]

We got schooled by PSG last night! :sick:

We were, but it was expected, wasn't it? The reaction I've seen over here in the 24 hours after was as if we'd been the favourites for the tie. Or the 'old' United. I can't see how anyone who has been paying attention in the last 5 years would have us as the winners of that tie over two legs. In a one off game? Sure, it happens. It happened with Spurs in the league where we could've lost by quite a few but ended up winning. But over two legs I think PSG were odds on with the bookies.

The two injuries were key and made the second half a lot easier for PSG than it might've been otherwise, but they're a better team with better players. They had more nous, too. Every other counter attack was stopped after the first pass or when we made the break. This is what the best teams do all over Europe. Especially away from home. Watch City or Juve, Barca or Real. As soon as they lose the ball and the break is on they make a niggly foul so they can regroup, regain their shape and drop back. But as it's just a small foul, it usually won't draw a card. Obviously it is a professional foul, but isn't seen the same way as a deliberate pull or trip but has the same effect.

Shorn of their pace, United don't really have much else. Especially if Pogba is isolated or man marked, which is what PSG did in the second half, leading to him getting more and more frustrated and the second yellow. That in itself pretty much killed our chances for the second leg.

Great result for Spurs last night. I didn't see much of the game, but saw the last 15 minutes and they were just all over Dortmund. Reminded me a bit of PSG the night before.

Spurs in the 1st half were a bit jittery, the 2nd half was a whole different gear, Jan Vertonghen probably had his best game in a Spurs shirt. Aurier on the other hand gave away possession too much, fell asleep for some of his markers runs, if Dortmund had focused on their left flank for attacking instead of their right it could've been a very different result

PSG missing Neymar and Cavani probably put United as favourites in most people's eyes for the Old Trafford game, Mbappe is so amazing for such a young lad

[WrinkledMind]

Still wont make it with that team. Eagerly waiting for next Pool Bayern... oooooooooooo! I hope Bayern just score 3-4 on the first leg.

I expect Bayern to score goals, considering it will most probably be a Fabinho-Matip CB pairing(with Van Dijk suspended).

It also means Fabinho not being in the midfield to control the tempo.

[hell_storm2004]

I was quietly confident. Never thought of United being the favorites. But if there was an upset to be had, this was the one. They have far more players to control the midfield that we do. Matic/Harrera are good at breaking up play. Whereas Veratti/Marquinos are good at that and finding a pass as well. I just wondered Fred might have been something of an option with his running. But then again, the very little game time he has had, this would have been too much.



Cant call the Bayern/Pool game yet. But City, Spurs are sure to make it to the next round.


If its Matip/ Fabinho, that would be interesting. But Bayern aren't having a stellar season either. If the front three can steam roll them in the first 15-20 mins, it will give Pool a huge advantage. A goal advantage should be enough for Pool, as i do expect them to at least get a goal in away leg.

[hell_storm2004]

Chelsea tonight! :)

[Doolallyfrank]

Chelsea tonight! :)

Can't call that one, Chelsea's home record is good but it depends which United turn up, both teams to score would be my bet of choice

[christine]

honeykid wow great game hun, congratulations on getting though, well deserved x

[hell_storm2004]

Happy we got a win. Chelsea were more or less toothless in their attack. Just a lot of sideways passing. But after 20 mins i was a little worried they were starting to dominate possession. But the goals really knocked the air out of them. On to Wolves now.

[Fabulous]

Chelsea are getting worse as the season goes on. The opposite of what you'd expect when you appoint a new manager. Perhaps premature, but could this be another case of Chelsea players beginning to revolt against the manager? Would be the third one in a row that has lost the dressing room.

[hell_storm2004]

I think so. Its a faint one now, it might be a major uprising if the results keep going the way they are. Sarri cant wait for a Huddersfield, Cardiff like fixture right now. But up next is City. If they get embarrassed there, it will surely be over. He is one rigid man. It is for all to see the Jorginho doesn't work there anymore, everyone has figured it out. And still he persists. He had Fabregas, who even at 31 is 20 times better than him. And I am sure all the Chelsea fans are bored of seeing Kovacic for Barkley or Barley for Kovacic sub as well.

[Doolallyfrank]

Chelsea are the AC Milan of the Prem, they overpaid too many players (more so when they didn't have champions league football to keep/sign their stars) and some players think they're bigger than the club, not a good time to be a Chelsea supporter

[hell_storm2004]

Player power. I am all for it, but Chelsea's act like prima donnas!

[honeykid]

honeykid wow great game hun, congratulations on getting though, well deserved x

Thanks honey. Yes, it was a good performance and I was really pleased to see how we played in the first half (when Chelsea actually had a threat) and the defensive performance of the second half. It's been a long, long time since I saw us defend in a manner I would call 'properly'. In numbers, but organised, with both an obvious gameplan and a genuine threat with the counter attack. Proper United football. :)

I haven't gotten too carried away (and this sounds a bit weird considering Chelsea have been a bogey team of ours for a good few decades now) because it was the current Chelsea team. Now, I can't lie, I was expecting a much more difficult game than I saw just because it was Chelsea away and we rarely win those (even back in Fergie's time) but as hell storm said earlier, this Chelsea team has one way of playing and if you know what to do (shut down Jorginho) it disrupts it to the point of breaking down completely. You saw the Chelsea players reaction when they went a goal down. You could almost see them thinking "Not again" and, while the second goal really put them in a bad place, psychologically I feel it was the first goal which defeated them more.

So we've beaten the team above us (in the league) and the two below us in the Cup. I'm starting to feel some confidence again and I'm a very cautious fan but you can see that the players are well up for it atm. I'm even starting to think that Ole should get the job at the end of the season.

Don't get me wrong, I'd still rather have Poch, but I still think he's going to Real and, tbh, I'd rather he came to United (if he ever does) after getting sacked or deciding to leave Real. As a Spaniard, with Barca not in the picture because of his allegiances, I feel that Real would always be a spectre if he was doing well at United and, knowing our luck, he'd go just as it was all coming together.

I have two worries about Ole. One is historical, the other business which keep me from backing him all the way and over Poch.

Firstly, how many examples can you find of caretaker/interim manager who've been given the job permanently who've then gone on the next season to do well? How many can you find which have gone on to do badly? If you've not thought of it before, by all means go and have a look. For those who don't want to/can't be bothered, column B is a lot higher than column A. Obviously that doesn't mean it'll happen here but if a club falls into something rather than going/continuing with their long term planning, it rarely seems to ends well.

The second is his name. United has pull. But these days so does City. And PSG, Liverpool, Chelsea, Juve, Real, Barca and they can all pay large wages (only a couple can match united but still...) some of them also have big name managers. If it's 50/50 in a players mind and the wages are the same/close enough, who you'd be playing for can/does make a real difference and Ole (twice Norwegian champion with the PSG of Norway and relegated with Cardiff) doesn't hold the same cache as CL winner/finalist, Serie A/La Liga champion, etc.

So, if Ole comes in and we continue playing like this, then I'll be happy because it's fun to watch again. But there'll come a time when United fans will demand more because, well, we're football fans and that's what we do.

[honeykid]

Just a quick note on Liverpool. Was I the only person who thought they'd win that leg by a couple of goals and that Bayern aren't that good?

I'd rather be in Liverpool's position than Bayern's after the first leg (mainly because I still think Liverpool are a much better team and that Bayern at home will play into their strengths) but I was surprised at how reticent or nervous they were. I'm hoping this is because of the crowd and that, already, the pressure is getting to them all as that'll help City win the league (God I hate that:mad:) but maybe it was just a pragmatic approach by Klopp? With their central defensive pairing being about their 8th best, maybe he just thought don't leave them exposed at all and give Bayern something to defend and some hope? I hope not, because that's very un-Klopp and carrying on like that will probably improve their chances of winning the league. :D

Wasn't too surprised by Lyon either. Obviously I'd have still expected Barca to win (and a 0-0 draw would've been my last choice of scoreline) but considering how well they played against City in the group stages it's not too much of a surprise, is it?

If Messi doesn't play well, Barca don't play well. That's kind of how it is there, isn't it?

[WrinkledMind]

Just a quick note on Liverpool. Was I the only person who thought they'd win that leg by a couple of goals and that Bayern aren't that good?

I'd rather be in Liverpool's position than Bayern's after the first leg (mainly because I still think Liverpool are a much better team and that Bayern at home will play into their strengths) but I was surprised at how reticent or nervous they were. I'm hoping this is because of the crowd and that, already, the pressure is getting to them all as that'll help City win the league (God I hate that:mad:) but maybe it was just a pragmatic approach by Klopp? With their central defensive pairing being about their 8th best, maybe he just thought don't leave them exposed at all and give Bayern something to defend and some hope? I hope not, because that's very un-Klopp and carrying on like that will probably improve their chances of winning the league. :D



I won't deny that the team has looked a wee bit nervous lately, but that's down to inexperience. Only the manager can relax them. Unlike the team, he has been in that position at Dortmund so it's not new for him.

As for yesterday's match, it was a mixture of several things: Bayern defending well, us not taking our chances and low creativity from the midfield.

[Doolallyfrank]

Thanks honey. Yes, it was a good performance and I was really pleased to see how we played in the first half (when Chelsea actually had a threat) and the defensive performance of the second half. It's been a long, long time since I saw us defend in a manner I would call 'properly'. In numbers, but organised, with both an obvious gameplan and a genuine threat with the counter attack. Proper United football. :)

I haven't gotten too carried away (and this sounds a bit weird considering Chelsea have been a bogey team of ours for a good few decades now) because it was the current Chelsea team. Now, I can't lie, I was expecting a much more difficult game than I saw just because it was Chelsea away and we rarely win those (even back in Fergie's time) but as hell storm said earlier, this Chelsea team has one way of playing and if you know what to do (shut down Jorginho) it disrupts it to the point of breaking down completely. You saw the Chelsea players reaction when they went a goal down. You could almost see them thinking "Not again" and, while the second goal really put them in a bad place, psychologically I feel it was the first goal which defeated them more.

So we've beaten the team above us (in the league) and the two below us in the Cup. I'm starting to feel some confidence again and I'm a very cautious fan but you can see that the players are well up for it atm. I'm even starting to think that Ole should get the job at the end of the season.

Don't get me wrong, I'd still rather have Poch, but I still think he's going to Real and, tbh, I'd rather he came to United (if he ever does) after getting sacked or deciding to leave Real. As a Spaniard, with Barca not in the picture because of his allegiances, I feel that Real would always be a spectre if he was doing well at United and, knowing our luck, he'd go just as it was all coming together.

I have two worries about Ole. One is historical, the other business which keep me from backing him all the way and over Poch.

Firstly, how many examples can you find of caretaker/interim manager who've been given the job permanently who've then gone on the next season to do well? How many can you find which have gone on to do badly? If you've not thought of it before, by all means go and have a look. For those who don't want to/can't be bothered, column B is a lot higher than column A. Obviously that doesn't mean it'll happen here but if a club falls into something rather than going/continuing with their long term planning, it rarely seems to ends well.

The second is his name. United has pull. But these days so does City. And PSG, Liverpool, Chelsea, Juve, Real, Barca and they can all pay large wages (only a couple can match united but still...) some of them also have big name managers. If it's 50/50 in a players mind and the wages are the same/close enough, who you'd be playing for can/does make a real difference and Ole (twice Norwegian champion with the PSG of Norway and relegated with Cardiff) doesn't hold the same cache as CL winner/finalist, Serie A/La Liga champion, etc.

So, if Ole comes in and we continue playing like this, then I'll be happy because it's fun to watch again. But there'll come a time when United fans will demand more because, well, we're football fans and that's what we do.

weren't Cardiff doomed before Ole took over tho? plus they had a terrible team then, relegation favourites I think
Maybe I'm just too much of an optimist but I really think Poch is staying, the Spurs board will give him whatever he wants (because he's more interested in developing than buying superstars)

[hell_storm2004]

Cardiff was the wrong team at the wrong time. Yes they were doomed already. He was still at Molde when he took over and was used to attacking style of play. And when you are relegation fodder, you don't go out, just sit back and defend and hope for a set-piece goal. But he did stay on for next season and that also didn't go well. I guess it was just the relegation hangover.


United does have the pull for players. But it would be heightened if Poch took over. A lot of the top players are attracted to top managers rather than the team.



But I don't mind Ole staying on. But I would hope the the numpty Woodward would wait till the end of the season to announce it.

[JoaoRodrigues]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xjucQxRZtY
This guy came from the rival Benfica, but I consider him better then Ronaldo any day. He was already better before he joined City.

[Doolallyfrank]

So Chelsea have been banned from signing any players for 2 transfer windows, bad timing considering everything that's going on not only with Sarri but with the futures of Hazard and Hudson-Odoi. The Pulisic transfer is unaffected

[honeykid]

I won't deny that the team has looked a wee bit nervous lately, but that's down to inexperience.
It's not just that. It's coming from the crowd too. I think that's where it's starting, but it's a vicious cycle... Hopefully. :D They do have a few winners in their team, though. Not with Liverpool, obviously, but Milner and Fabinho have both won league titles before, as has Klopp himself. Also, did Shaqiri win one with Munich? I'm assuming he did, but I don't know for sure.


weren't Cardiff doomed before Ole took over tho? plus they had a terrible team then, relegation favourites I think.
I agree, but it's still on his CV and I was talking about the pull of high profile managers with CV's.


United does have the pull for players. But it would be heightened if Poch took over. A lot of the top players are attracted to top managers rather than the team.
Yes, that's my feeling too.

So Chelsea have been banned from signing any players for 2 transfer windows, bad timing considering everything that's going on not only with Sarri but with the futures of Hazard and Hudson-Odoi. The Pulisic transfer is unaffected
It's not good, but it's not a surprise. It's the reason Pulisic was brought in when he was but allowed to stay at Dortmund till the end of the season. I believe that Hazard is gone already. Not actually, of course, but I can't see him being there at the start of next season unless Real decide against it. I'm sure they'd like to keep Hudson-Odoi but if he won't sign a new contract then he'll be gone too, as he'll only have a year left on his contract by the summer.

I do think the ban will be the end of Sarri though. Surely his only argument to keeping his job would be bringing in new player who can play his way? This wouldn't happen till the following summer, so don't be surprised if Chelsea take a look north and see what's happening at United. Lampard's doing quite well at Derby. I'll leave it there. ;)

Shocking results in the CL all round weren't they? City 2-1 down and winning with 10 men. Juve was the big one though. What happened there? History tells us they won't be going though and if there's one team you don't want to have to score two goals against, I think Madrid would surely be most people choice. Made worse with a single goal meaning you'd need four. A few of us did mention this when Buffon left to be replaced by Szczesny. Was that enough? Even with Juve's defence? They've been really open about the fact that they're going for the CL this season. That said, while I didn't watch the game, from the goals I can't say he was at fault for either of them. It's the defending.

That was why they spent the money on Ronaldo (well, mostly) and is he going to be enough for another season? He's got to run out at some point. Hasn't he?

The big game is Sunday though. No, not the League Cup. United versus Liverpool. Biggest game of the season in the league. Every season. I'm hearing lots of people backing United, with a few for the draw. That's what I'd think is most likely. Usually I'd say Liverpool for the win here because they always do it for the big games and then mess up the 'lesser' ones. But that's not been the case this season and they aren't in good form, so maybe I should be a little more positive? No. It'll be a draw at best. God, I hope they don't win.

[Doolallyfrank]

Oh Hazard is definitely gone, if not to Real then maybe Barcelona (having a debate with a guy at work who disagrees about Barca) he's outgrown Chelsea, should've gone in the summer

will be watching United v Liverpool like a hawk on sunday, big game for a lot of people (COME ON OLE!!!!!!!!)

[Fabulous]

Chelsea will appeal the ruling and probably delay the ban until next January. Gives them a window to do some big spending, similar to what Barcelona and Real Madrid did a few years ago.

[WrinkledMind]

Chelsea will appeal the ruling and probably delay the ban until next January. Gives them a window to do some big spending, similar to what Barcelona and Real Madrid did a few years ago.

Yep, they will most probably appeal. They would want to reduce the ban, but it is most likely to delay the punishment allowing them to make panic buys.
That means some clubs could really profit by overpricing their assets and offloading them to Chelsea.

On a sidenote, really nervous about Sunday. Just get a win to keep the pressure on City. Ole's United are different than Mourinho's, though.

[WrinkledMind]

honeykid yep Shaq has won it with Munich and in Switzerland if I am not wrong.

Unlike the 2013-14 team this squad has more leaders. (We probably would have won that season if Carra was in the squad or Hendo hadn't got sent off against City-eventhouh it was a red)

This team is the closet to the 08 season team, which for me was our best side in the past two decade or so.

Agree with the crowd bit. It's been close to three decades without the title. The nervousness is understandable, though not ideal.

[WrinkledMind]

An awful, awful match.

We were unimaginative, not urgent and not aggressive. Couldn't stitch a couple of passes in the final third and gave away needless fouls near the box.

I love Milner for what he has done for us at LB or in the midfield, but at RB he was ****e. He never really stretched forward and his set pieces were poor. Also, why would Klopp bring on an ageing Sturridge so early instead of Shaqiri?

Fair play to United. They had to deal with an horrendous situation with the crazy injuries, and yet seemed decisive upfront.

Frankly we were lucky not to lose this, and that was simply down to a quality save from Alisson and Smalling's brain freeze.

It's strange to crib when your team is at the top of the table, but there is a juggernaut to deal with for the prize.

[honeykid]

It's an odd game. Considering the injuries, both before and during the game, I'm ok with a draw. More than OK. However, despite that, I somehow feel that Liverpool got lucky. It's an odd feeling.

Liverpool played, pretty much, as they have been of late, which isn't very well. It's weird that they're still top of the table and deserve to be there, yet haven't played well for over a month now. If anything, they look more like the United of Mourinho than United do. Lots of slow movement, sideways and backwards passing with a long (usually over hit pass) to end with or another chance missed.

We'll have to wait and see how bad the injuries are, but I'd expect 3-4 weeks for Herrera if it's a hamstring. How much damage has Rashford done to himself? Lingard too? United are built around pace atm, so here's hoping the injuries aren't too bad or for too long. Let's see what Ole does.

WTF happened at Wembley? Kepa? Amazing. I do feel that the frenzy is a little much though and if the game (or the United/Liverpool game for that matter) had actually had something to show, maybe it wouldn't be quite as big a story as it's being turned into? What do you guys think?

[Fabulous]

Also doesn't help that Sarri's job and relationship with his players has been questioned these last few weeks. This just adds fuel to the fire.

[Upton]

I totally buy the "coverup" explanation on the Kepa thing. I don't think Sarri was taking him out for tactical reasons, Kepa was faking cramp to time waste and the medical staff dropped the ball communicating that. Sarri got mad at him because he thought Kepa was trying to be a hero and stay on when really he was never cramped up to begin with

[honeykid]

I think both are plausible, but the tactical thing is more likely. Though, you'd expect that it would've been mentioned before the game? Maybe it was and that's why Sarri was so enraged? Anyway, he's been fined and dropped for the next game, so the official story does seem to be doubtful at best.

Liverpool showed everything against Watford that they haven't for the last month. If they keep going like that, then I think the league is probably theirs. That said, there's still 10 games to go and I don't know that they can do that every game for long enough to get the lead they need to protect.

It wasn't looking good for United, but that win away at Palace was a really good win for us considering all the problems. Southampton next, coming off a win themselves, but I'd hope that we'll still have enough to get past them. PSG after that and then the game which might decide who gets in the top 4. Away at Arsenal.

[Upton]

PSG routing united might be a blessing in disguise when Arsenal/Chelsea are still toiling away in St Petersburg in April

[honeykid]

PSG's second half against United was what I was expecting for the whole tie tbh. If I were a PSG fan I'd be slightly worried that they only did that once United's gameplan was completely done by injuries. Not for this leg, of course, they'd done more than enough. But against the top teams (especially away) they're going to have to be a lot better if they want to win the CL. Which they do, of course, as it's the only reason this incarnation of PSG exists.

I know they didn't have Neymar (and won't have Rabiot) but they're probably a better team without Neymar anyway.

[WrinkledMind]

Bye bye title. Can't see City dropping points.

It's now three seasons where we have produced a special season, only to see another team doing just a wee bit better. Infuriating. It's like a curse.

[honeykid]

Sadly I wouldn't give up just yet. I think both Liverpool and City will drop points before the end. I think all of the top 6 have a defeat in them. The top two much less, but I can see them dropping points.

[honeykid]

I know it seems an odd thing to say and there are, of course, other factors, but I'm starting to think Klopp might be a big part of the nervousness around Liverpool... And he's the one with the most experience of winning. Yesterday was too windy.... Apparently. Against United our injuries threw them off. I can't remember what it was with Bayern, but I'm sure there was another silly thing.

[Upton]

I know it seems an odd thing to say and there are, of course, other factors, but I'm starting to think Klopp might be a big part of the nervousness around Liverpool...


He's rattled

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szoVzbrOEbI

[honeykid]

I hadn't seen that. Yep, it does look like it's getting to him.

[WrinkledMind]

The wind bit is embarrassing, apart from the excuses over grass that he has said on some occasions.
However, you could say that he was trying to protect his players from criticism. They have been underperforming since the start of the year, and publicly he will always back them.

That confrontation with the Everton ballboy was unnecessary. But that's how managers are. Especially the successful ones. They don't respond kindly to defeats.

[honeykid]

I agree that this could be something he's doing/saying to deflect from the performance. After all, that's what we'd all be saying if this was Mourinho. But I do feel that he's nervous. It's being mirrored in Germany atm. It doesn't mean that Liverpool (or Dortmund) won't win their leagues, but both are the 'underdog' being challenged by the dominant league team with the experience of winning the league. Both had quite the lead at Christmas and have thrown away points (although Liverpool still have only lost one game.)

[gandalf26]

Unbelievable!! What a result.

OLE, OLE OLE OLE!

More VAR controversy.

[JoaoRodrigues]

Nostradamus mode: ON

FC Porto vs. Manchester United = WIN
FC Porto vs. Barcelona = WIN
FC Porto vs. Manchester City = WIN

[honeykid]

Wow. Just wow. Honestly, what do you say as a fan after that? I think that penalty was the only time I was pleased Pogba wasn't on the pitch. I don't know how I'd have coped with his tippy-tappy run up to a penalty. That penalty.

I'm not sure how I feel about the penalty. I'm not sure which side I come down on. Is it a deliberate handball? I don't think so. However, if I purposely put my arms out and the ball happens to hit them, isn't that deliberate? If the defender knew any contact between arm and ball would be called, would he have put his arm out? I don't think he would. It wasn't close enough for him not to be able to get his arm 'out of the way' if he knew he'd be giving a penalty away, IMO. Goalkeepers spread themselves in the hope of putting off an attacker and stopping a shot before they know where or which side it will go. IMO the defender is doing the same thing. Whether that is considered deliberate handball is a question for the referee and the lawmakers of the game.

None of this should distract from the fact (as Rafa would say ;)) that PSG could well be the biggest bottlers in European, if not world, football history. After Ole made the change and took Bailly off we pretty much stopped PSG from looking a threat. The longer that went on, the more nervous they looked. It felt like they were daring us to score.

I'm really pleased about it though, partly as PSG are just such an unlikeable group of players with an arrogance they haven't earned. Not as PSG players, anyway.


Congrats to Porto, too. neiba will be so pleased. :) Seems JR is too. :):up:

[the samoan lawyer]

Wow. Just wow. Honestly, what do you say as a fan after that? I think that penalty was the only time I was pleased Pogba wasn't on the pitch. I don't know how I'd have coped with his tippy-tappy run up to a penalty. That penalty.

I'm not sure how I feel about the penalty. I'm not sure which side I come down on. Is it a deliberate handball? I don't think so. However, if I purposely put my arms out and the ball happens to hit them, isn't that deliberate? If the defender knew any contact between arm and ball would be called, would he have put his arm out? I don't think he would. It wasn't close enough for him not to be able to get his arm 'out of the way' if he knew he'd be giving a penalty away, IMO. Goalkeepers spread themselves in the hope of putting off an attacker and stopping a shot before they know where or which side it will go. IMO the defender is doing the same thing. Whether that is considered deliberate handball is a question for the referee and the lawmakers of the game.

None of this should distract from the fact (as Rafa would say ;)) that PSG could well be the biggest bottlers in European, if not world, football history. After Ole made the change and took Bailly off we pretty much stopped PSG from looking a threat. The longer that went on, the more nervous they looked. It felt like they were daring us to score.

I'm really pleased about it though, partly as PSG are just such an unlikeable group of players with an arrogance they haven't earned. Not as PSG players, anyway.


Congrats to Porto, too. neiba will be so pleased. :) Seems JR is too. :):up:


I was in absolute bits when the penalty call was made. I was watching on my own and ending up waking the other half up to come down and watch it with me!


Difficult call on it indeed. Obviously so glad we got it but if it was other way around I would be fuming. Definitely not intentional but when the BT Sport referee made the point about Kimpembe making himself bigger by doing that, then its hard to argue against.


Still don't want everyone getting too carried away though. Its amazing being back and beating these teams but we are still getting outplayed in a lot of the games.

[hell_storm2004]

Yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeedddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd

[honeykid]

Question for Spurs fans. Now that the personnel crisis has pretty much passed results have dropped as have performances. Has Kane (and maybe Ali) come back to soon from injury? Or have the rest of the team relaxed now that the big boys have returned? Son seems to have disappeared since Kane returned. One of the problems with having a 'saviour' in a team is that everyone plays to them. When they're in form, it's fine. When it's not, frustration sets in and the others seem to forget how to do it for themselves. It's not just Spurs, I'd throw both Barca and Real in there and in the UK, Match Of The Day showed a little of it yesterday with Crystal Palace and Saha.

[honeykid]

If you had to pick a player to take a penalty to save your life, would you really pick anyone other than Cristiano Ronaldo? Even the biggest Messi fan would do it, surely?

Surprised that Atleti performed the way they did. Too negative from the get go and didn't really push to get the goal which would all but assure their progression. I could see Juve scoring two, but I really thought they'd have to open up enough to allow the away goal. They did and had Madrid gone for it, they probably could've nicked one.

That said, I didn't know that Costa wouldn't be playing. That was a huge loss for them, both going forward and backwards. They had to hit on the break as no one could hold the ball up. Great game to watch, though. I took this rather than the City game as I assumed that'd be pretty much over by halftime. I had no idea just how over that game would be. :D

[WrinkledMind]

I didn't expect us to go through, let alone win so comfortably. We didn't even get out of the second gear.

The Bayern board should have listened to Ancelotti. That squad needs loads of changes. Too many old and unmotivated players.

As for us, we desperately need to win some silverware. I totally expect Zidane to be provided with a massive transfer kitty and he will most probably come for Salah. For those who don't know, one of the reasons he resigned was because he wanted to replace Bale with Salah and Perez denied his request. Can't see him saying no to Zidane again.
Ideally I don't want to lose Salah, but he can be replaced and we have options, including the young Wilson who has been brilliant at Derby. However, if they come for Van Dijk and if they succeed then the club will substantially regress in quality. The man is not a rock but the entire Himalayas and frankly can't be replaced.

[Doolallyfrank]

Question for Spurs fans. Now that the personnel crisis has pretty much passed results have dropped as have performances. Has Kane (and maybe Ali) come back to soon from injury? Or have the rest of the team relaxed now that the big boys have returned? Son seems to have disappeared since Kane returned. One of the problems with having a 'saviour' in a team is that everyone plays to them. When they're in form, it's fine. When it's not, frustration sets in and the others seem to forget how to do it for themselves. It's not just Spurs, I'd throw both Barca and Real in there and in the UK, Match Of The Day showed a little of it yesterday with Crystal Palace and Saha.

I agree that maybe they came back too early, but this probably would've happened whenever they returned, the game plan changes and it takes time to adapt. If we had a like for like with Kane it wouldn't be too much of an issue, with Alli the midfield is pretty interchangeable but Llorente and Kane are 2 totally different kind of strikers, until they find a 2nd fiddle that plays a similar style to Kane they'll keep having these problems every season

[JoaoRodrigues]

Messi is still better then Ronaldo, and will always be.
Just for Champions League alone eight goals in six games. Ronaldo in seven games have four goals.
Messi could have scored zero goals, is better in my opinion because I like to watch football not goals.
I enjoy the pass as much as the goal itself. Ronaldo is just for show, media love it, his a good sales man.

[Fabulous]

My picks to advance...

Champions League

Liverpool vs. Porto
Man United vs. Barcelona

Tottenham vs. Man City
Ajax vs. Juventus



Europa League

Arsenal vs. Napoli
Villarreal vs. Valencia

Benfica vs. Frankfurt
Slavia Prague vs. Chelsea

[Doolallyfrank]

My picks to advance...

Champions League

Liverpool vs. Porto
Man United vs. Barcelona

Tottenham vs. Man City
Ajax vs. Juventus



Europa League

Arsenal vs. Napoli
Villarreal vs. Valencia

Benfica vs. Frankfurt
Slavia Prague vs. Chelsea

Hard to argue with that unfortunately, maybe Tottenham can get a decent result at the new stadium and the 2nd leg will actually be a good game

[honeykid]

I didn't expect us to go through, let alone win so comfortably. We didn't even get out of the second gear.
This was what I expected in the first leg and was surprised it didn't happen. I know Bayern sat back and decided that preventing Liverpool scoring was key, but I still expected them to do it.

As for us, we desperately need to win some silverware. I totally expect Zidane to be provided with a massive transfer kitty and he will most probably come for Salah. For those who don't know, one of the reasons he resigned was because he wanted to replace Bale with Salah and Perez denied his request. Can't see him saying no to Zidane again.

Ideally I don't want to lose Salah, but he can be replaced and we have options, including the young Wilson who has been brilliant at Derby. However, if they come for Van Dijk and if they succeed then the club will substantially regress in quality. The man is not a rock but the entire Himalayas and frankly can't be replaced.
I agree with you about Van Dijk. While Salah had a world class season last season, I still don't think he's world class and, while he's very good in that system, I don't think he's irreplaceable at all. I also don't think he'll ever have another season that good. That's not to run him down, just that if Real come in with a stupid amount of money (which if they want him, they'll have to) then I don't think it's the end for this Liverpool team so long as they replace him with the right player. Of course, I also said that we'd seen the best of Ronaldo at United, so I have history of being monumentally wrong when it comes to this stuff. :D

I'm a big fan of Van Dijk though and wanted him and Wanyama for United when they were at Celtic. Still a little baffled as to why both of those players were 'allowed' to move to the Premier League for 'so little' when United needed both (and they were both better than what we had in their roles, IMO) and we were running the club on bargains anyway. If he went, I think he might be irreplaceable. For that season, anyway.

Messi is still better then Ronaldo, and will always be.
My point wasn't about the overall player, just pressure penalties.

Well, we're out of the cup. I know a lot of people run the cup down, but I'm old and therefore can still remember when it was every young boys dream to lift the cup for their team, as it was mine and I love the FA Cup. Also, as a United fan in the 70's and 80's, with Liverpool dominating, it was our best chance of winning something most seasons.

That was the performance I was expecting at Arsenal last weekend. After the emotions of PSG, there's got to be a drop and I'd have rather it came last week (when we lost anyway) than a FA Cup quarter final. We looked tired and out of ideas. Wolves seemed to make just as many mistakes, but had it when it counted. But for a couple of good saves, it could've been a lot worse. Or, maybe it would've woken them up a bit?

I think pretty much everyone sees the CL draw playing out the same way. Oddly, the one tie which might cause a shock is the City/Spurs one, IMO. Odd because City are probably the best team left in the competition. Odds on a Messi/Ronaldo final?

As for the Europa League, I'd think that if Napoli can get past Arsenal (which I think they well) then they've got to be favourites for the whole thing.

Lastly, another one for the Spurs fans (well, anyone, but it's their club so I'd like to hear their thoughts) how many players are you going to lose this summer? I think Poch will stay (I couldn't see him leaving for United this summer but did think he'd be off to Real) and Real has said Zidane will have a huge amount of money this summer (I've seen £300m but I don't know if they actually have that much to spend unless it includes sales) I don't see either of the PSG prizes going there this summer, but I think Ericsson could well be on his way and I thought they'd go for Kane last summer and think moreso this. Toby's available for £26m this summer, so I think United (among others) will be in and I wouldn't be completely surprised if someone came in for Lloris either. I'm not saying all those player will go, but if one or two do, surely it's only a matter of time before others finally take the cash from someone.

Do we have any Real fans? Again, who's coming in and going out this summer? I don't know about Bale. I keep hearing he'll go to United or that it's the only feasible option for him, but I think the most feasible option for him is to stay where he is. £100m for a 30 year old with his injury record and £600,000 a week? Even if Woodward wanted to play fantasy branding football I'm not sure the numbers would add up and I really don't see Ole going for it (if he stays) when we're already well stocked for players where he plays and, if we're going to get a new player wide left, Jadon Sancho would be a more likely option, IMO.

The midfield needs refreshing. It might just be a world cup hangover, but Modric and Kroos both look spent. Marcello has made noises about his time maybe being up at Real and if they do bring in a real world class striker, I don't see the point of Benzema hanging around or of Real wanting to keep him.

There might be a few out at Barca too, with rumours constantly flying about Malcolm, Coutinho and Rakitic.

[JoaoRodrigues]

I guess Porto will have to crush Liverpool. Will be fun.

[honeykid]

I guess Porto will have to crush Liverpool. Will be fun.

From your keyboard to Gods eyes. :yup:

I don't see it happening myself. No offence, but Porto were the one draw everyone wanted. Not that that means they can't win.

Why have VAR at some games in a round of the FA Cup and not others? It makes no sense. They're really making this whole VAR thing a lot more difficult than it needs to be, which will lead to it being overwhelmingly disliked, even if it mostly works. Every time something is 'mis-interpreted' it's going to be an issue.

[Doolallyfrank]

Smaller clubs/stadiums don't have the money/adequate facilities

[honeykid]

I know that's what they say. Firstly, if that's the case, don't use it at all/until there are just teams which do. Secondly, Swansea don't have the money/adequate facilities? They were in the Premier League until this season and for a good few years too. Also they are still getting the parachute payments. The VAR uses the TV cameras (Sky/BT) and calibrate before each game. That's why the whole thing about Chelsea using their own cameras to 'prove' their version of events (a couple of months ago, do you remember?) for offside was pointless.

[Doolallyfrank]

I know that's what they say. Firstly, if that's the case, don't use it at all/until there are just teams which do. Secondly, Swansea don't have the money/adequate facilities? They were in the Premier League until this season and for a good few years too. Also they are still getting the parachute payments. The VAR uses the TV cameras (Sky/BT) and calibrate before each game. That's why the whole thing about Chelsea using their own cameras to 'prove' their version of events (a couple of months ago, do you remember?) for offside was pointless.

But they're fronting money for VAR to only use it in cup games? What if they went out in the 2nd round? The league should be paying for it

[honeykid]

I agree that the league should pay, but the whole thing is a bodge anyway, so if you get that far and you can afford it you should have to have it or agree to play at a stadium which does have it. Probably the other team by that point in the competition. Or just not have it at all for the competition.

I mean, the whole thing is a crap shoot as anyone who watched the Wolves/United game saw, both with the penalty which wasn't on Rashford and the sending off which was, then wasn't but should've been with Lindelöf. They didn't even have monitors at the side of the pitch for the ref to look at! He just took the advice/word of the VAR and overruled himself. Wrongly, IMO.

I know other leagues around the world are using VAR and that there are pros and cons. I know some will never like it and others love it and that there have been 'mistakes' in those games involving VAR. But are they at least all using the same guidelines or is each FA doing as they want/see fit? ATM the FA are just throwing lots of mud and seeing what sticks. Hopefully it'll bring about a better system next season( it's the FA so I have no faith it will) with things learned from each experiment, but did anyone really think not letting the ref review his own decision could be a good idea?

[Doolallyfrank]

I didn't think Lindelof's was a straight red, it wasn't studs or anything, yellow for sure but that would've been one of the softest reds I'd've seen for a while

VAR was always going to be trial and error, how are they supposed to know what works and what doesn't before they've even used it? Different leagues play at different paces too

watched this yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAqctGNTouc

thought it was pretty interesting

[honeykid]

I didn't think Lindelof's was a straight red, it wasn't studs or anything, yellow for sure but that would've been one of the softest reds I'd've seen for a while
For me, he's gone through the player. He's out of control and it's reckless. Straight red. But fouls are all about opinions, which is why the ref should look at it himself, rather than take the opinion of someone else, IMO

If you'd been on the VAR, you'd have done what was done. Had I been there, I wouldn't have asked him to change his mind. But surely if someone is going to ask the ref to change his mind, he has to be able to review it himself in order to do that? That's why I think to have that particular experiment was pointless. The problem which arose was obvious from the start.

VAR was always going to be trial and error, how are they supposed to know what works and what doesn't before they've even used it? Different leagues play at different paces too

watched this yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAqctGNTouc

thought it was pretty interesting
Thanks for that. I'd heard he was coming over and had been miked up for his last game but hadn't seen/heard any of it. That's something else I think should become a standard at the elite level. Miked refs. Not for live broadcast necessarily, though I'm sure most of us would like that, but for controversial decisions so we can hear/see the thought process after the fact.

[Doolallyfrank]

Agreed

[honeykid]

OK, before I start this I want to acknowledge that I'm the idiot here for not expecting the reaction.

That said, what is this kneejerk reaction to United losing three in four? Ole gets the job. Everyone seems to go "YAY!" "About time" But already I've seen/heard people wondering if it was the right appointment? Unbelievable. Nothing has changed except the results. If people thought United was 'fixed' because OIe had won a string of games, then they haven't been paying attention to anything other than results or don't know football (there's probably truth in both of those). We won at the weekend, but Watford played really well, came at us and we didn't play well. We did take the chances though. Last night we could've been 3 up in about 20 minutes. If that'd happened we'd have probably won the game quite comfortably and no one says anything. We managed one (the difficult one which really wasn't a chance) then made a couple of mistakes, Young acted like an idiot and put us in an even worse position and we lost. We beat PSG, but we all know we shouldn't have. De Gea has still had to be making big, world class saves at least once in most games and the defence, while looking better, still doesn't look good. Hence the need for the saves. Pogba is starting to remind me a bit of Rooney. Often you can tell in the first 20 minutes whether or not he'll have a bad game. Not always that he'll have a good game, but definitely a bad one. Last night was one of those nights. Though his supporting cast wasn't much help last night to get him out of it.

I think Ole is trying to see what works best for this group, last night's line up (both in terms of team selection and set up) was about that IMO.

I don't know if Ole will work out or not. I do know he wasn't the best manager for the job (that's undeniable.) I don't know how available Poch is this summer (I think it'd be really difficult to get him out of Spurs without having a season in their new stadium because he's very comfortable and worshipped there. The cost isn't the issue, IMO) if Allegri is available this summer (as is rumoured) then obviously he's the better manager. Despite all that, I'm not sure I can blame United for giving Ole the job. He's the easy option and the cheap option, but probably not the best option. But I don't think the board or owners have the balls for the big decisions and telling the fans that Ole has done everything asked of him, but we're sticking to the plan and we think there's a better option out there would turn everyone against them and make the start for the new manager very difficult. A bit like Fergie, there'd always be this spectre of Ole hanging over the place and lots of "what if's..." Plus, do United even have a plan in place? If not, then this going with the flow happenstance is in keeping with how they've operated for years now.

I also think it'd have been sensible to wait until the end of the season. If we finish in 6th, maybe it'd be easier to get someone else? Maybe the fans would look at things differently? So why go now? Because of the above and it's season ticket renewal time seems the obvious reason to me. If things don't work out, next season might be easier to get someone (Poch, unless Zidane also doesn't work out second time around) and the cost of getting rid of Ole won't be anything for United to worry about. Also, the board can say they did their best to give him what he asked for, but it just didn't work out.

But it puts us another season behind, another season with others, who are already much better than us, improving. Each season we don't catch up, the rest get a little further away and we have to make up even more.

The time to take charge was this summer. But, fingers crossed. :)

[Doolallyfrank]

Ole will be fine, even if you finish 5th remember the position you were in before his 1st match (not just in the league) let him have a whole season before getting the pitchforks out lol. Unfortunately there are still United fans out there that expect to win every single game so 1 shocking loss brings some sort of Apocalypse

[Doolallyfrank]

Get ready to see the best stadium in the UK guys ;)

[Chypmunk]

Get ready to see the best stadium in the UK guys ;)
Be you talking about the one that's home to this rather odd looking creature??????
52949
:D

[Doolallyfrank]

Get ready to see the best stadium in the UK guys ;)
Be you talking about the one that's home to this rather odd looking creature??????
52949
:D

Lmfao you must've posted the wrong pic, all I see is a majestic animal ;)

[Chypmunk]

Lmfao you must've posted the wrong pic, all I see is a majestic animal ;)
Ahhhhh yes, my bad - the gooskey hybrid is indeed a majestic creature ;)

[Doolallyfrank]

I like that they took it from White Hart Lane and put it where it is though, wish I was there today

[honeykid]

Be you talking about the one that's home to this rather odd looking creature??????
52949
:D

I like that they left the dent in it which Gazza put there by shooting it with an air rifle. :D