The 13TH Hall of Fame [Archive] - Page 4

CosmicRunaway

05-22-17, 07:29 AM

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The Broken Circle Breakdown (2012)
Dir. Felix Van Groeningen
Starring: Johan Heldenbergh, Veerle Baetens, Nell Cattrysse

The Broken Circle Breakdown is a story about a pair of star-crossed lovers, whose relationship is tested when their daughter is diagnosed with cancer. The plot is fairly simple, but has an emotional complexity as it swings back and forth between times when the couple were madly in love, and the devastation wrought upon their lives from their daughter's illness. These jumps in time are easy to follow, and create a roller-coaster-like effect that I think is more effective than if the story was told from a linear perspective.

Throughout the film, there are many musical interludes featuring the main characters' bluegrass band. They never felt forced and made sense from a storytelling perspective, however as someone who greatly dislikes all forms of country music, I felt that they often went on for far too long. The music is an important element in the characters' lives and their relationship, and I get that it was meant to enhance the feeling of certain scenes, but more often than not the music took me completely out of the film instead.

Despite not caring for the soundtrack, I still found the film to be very engaging, thanks to the performances and chemistry between the main actors. I did like the first half of the film more than the last, due to the emotional highs and lows being more pronounced at the start, whereas towards the end it just became very tragic without having many light-hearted or romantic scenes to contrast against. I really felt for the ending, even though I knew the film was heading down that route. I'm usually rather detached when it comes to highly dramatic and romantic films, so I commend Broken Circle Breakdown for drawing me in and evoking a response. I definitely never would have watched this if it wasn't nominated, so despite the devastation I'm glad I saw it.

rauldc14

05-22-17, 11:21 AM

Going to make it a plan to watch a nomination on Friday. Damn my busyness.

Citizen Rules

05-22-17, 08:13 PM

I've been trying to get you to view this for over a year! I'm so glad you saw it, and liked it!

Can't wait to hear the rest :) Ah, I see you have Buffalo 66 in your Top 10, I remember you saying how much you like it.

The one thing that I didn't say in my review was: I found the film truly funny at times. And the humor isn't the obvious kind, but realistic humor that comes from real life. In a way Buffalo 66 kind of reminds me of one your other favorites Harry and Tonto.

matt72582

05-22-17, 08:31 PM

Ah, I see you have Buffalo 66 in your Top 10, I remember you saying how much you like it.

The one thing that I didn't say in my review was: I found the film truly funny at times. And the humor isn't the obvious kind, but realistic humor that comes from real life. In a way Buffalo 66 kind of reminds me of one your other favorites Harry and Tonto.

Both are hilarious, and I can't think of more than a few movies I thought were funny... What similarities did you see?

Citizen Rules

05-22-17, 08:42 PM

matt72582

05-22-17, 10:57 PM

Both films are about people who don't fit into 'society's norm' and so they take a quest to find themselves. Their life's journey or quest starts after finding themselves in dire situations.

Harry finds himself with no place to live and so that sets him on a journey that I guess you can say heals him...or at least he discovers more to life than what was in his apartment.

Billy in Buffalo 66 is also cast adrift from his time in prison and wants to be right with his family and yet his family don't give a rats ass about him, just like Harry's family didn't really care about him. Billy in the end does get some closure and a better life too.

I'd say both films have the same style of film making, to me they feel similar. Both have a style that seems to me honest and personal, but not grandiose or overly cinematic. Both avoid being just entertainment or going for the super dramatic moments. Yeah, I really liked Buffalo 66 a lot and I would rate it a rating_4_5

I think Harry's kids loved him, especially his oldest son, who did everything for his father, and was in a tough position with his wife, fighting sons, work, etc.. Same with Ellen Burstyn and Larry Hagman -- he just wishes they were married with children.

I agree with everything else, you expressed it so well I wouldn't have to add. Very glad you liked it, and it's exciting to know that each day, more and more of us see more and more movies, so we have more and more to discuss :)

Citizen Rules

05-22-17, 11:17 PM

I think Harry's kids loved him, especially his oldest son, who did everything for his father, and was in a tough position with his wife, fighting sons, work, etc.. Same with Ellen Burstyn and Larry Hagman -- he just wishes they were married with children. Oh that's right, I do remember that now. I've only seen Harry and Tonto once and like 6 months ago? so I had forgotten about that, but yeah you're right.

CosmicRunaway

05-23-17, 04:11 AM

The one thing that I didn't say in my review was: I found the film truly funny at times. And the humor isn't the obvious kind, but realistic humor that comes from real life.
I actually watched Buffalo '66 last night, and didn't get that at all. I saw a few reviews stating that it was funny, and that seriously surprised me.

I did smile and actually laugh once, and it was:
During the fake out ending when the parents are at Billy's funeral.
I didn't quite finish what I had written last night, and I have to go to work soon so I can't finish it now. I'm only working half a shift today though, so I'll have plenty of time to finish it afterwards. I don't have much to say about it anyway.

Camo, I know how much you like this movie so prepare to be disappointed. :(

Camo

05-23-17, 09:08 AM

Citizen sent his list. As i told him i'll update the second post in the next few days, don't really have the time right now. Also have to read the reviews in the last few pages.

Added Citizens list. Won't give too much away but every film has at least 10 points and three films have already took a pretty substantial lead, that can and i suspect will drastically change as more lists come in of course. It looks nothing like i'd expect it to so far but we've not even had a quarter of the lists so far.

CosmicRunaway

05-23-17, 11:42 AM

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Buffalo '66 (1998)
Dir. Vincent Gallo
Starring: Vincent Gallo, Christina Ricci, Kevin Corrigan

This was a very difficult film for me to watch, and one where time just dragged and it became increasingly difficult not to look at my phone. It's not that I hated anything about the film, I just didn't find it interesting or the least bit engaging. While Vincent Gallo certainly gave a believable performance, by the halfway point of the movie I really wanted him to stop talking. Inconsequential and petty things started to catch my attention, like how the guy at the hotel said that check out time was 11am, when a clearly visible sign behind him said that checkout time was at noon.

While watching the dinner scene with Billy's parents, I couldn't tell if I liked the editing or not. The camera kept breaking the 180-degree rule, so at first I actually thought it was cutting between conversations that occurred at different times over the course of the evening, which to me was rather clever because at a certain point in life conversations with one's parents tend to follow the same script every time, especially if nothing has changed since you last talked. When I realized the camera was just jumping around the table, it was quite the disappointment. I did, however, appreciate how it added a layer of discomfort to the scene that obviously paralleled Billy's own feelings, and the tension between him and his parents.

The performances in the film were good for the most part, but I just didn't care for any of the characters. Billy acted in such a despicable manner that whenever he tried playing the sympathy card (usually shortly after yelling at or threatening someone), I couldn't help but roll my eyes. Layla had so many chances to just drive away early in the film, that her refusal to do so made me stop caring about what could happen to her as well. As such, I vastly preferred Billy's imagined ending because I didn't believe the characters deserved anything better than that. This film clearly just wasn't for me. I didn't even realize until I was reading reviews afterwards that it was supposed to have elements of comedy. Maybe if I was invested in the characters at all I would've seen some of it, but that wasn't the case. I liked some of the cinematography, but unfortunately that was about all.

CosmicRunaway

05-23-17, 11:48 AM

As i told him i'll update the second post in the next few days, don't really have the time right now.
I've been keeping links to my own reviews in my (honestly not abandoned) review thread. So if you like you can just copy mine from there instead of having to get the direct links yourself.

13th Hall of Fame:
The Hunt (2012) (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1688480#post1688480), The Great Dictator (1940) (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1688727#post1688727), Manchester by the Sea (2016) (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1688958#post1688958),
Captain Fantastic (2016) (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1691070#post1691070), Wings of Desire (1987) (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1691597#post1691597), The Three Musketeers (1973) (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1692220#post1692220),
The Quiet Earth (1985) (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1695149#post1695149), Nightmare Alley (1947) (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1699054#post1699054), Flesh and Blood (1985) (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1703198#post1703198),
The Marriage of Maria Braun (1979) (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1705429#post1705429), Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter...and Spring (2003) (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1705704#post1705704),
The Broken Circle Breakdown (2012) (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1706132#post1706132), Buffalo '66 (1998) (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1706781#post1706781)

It's cheap day at the local theatre, so I might go see Alien: Covenant. If not, I'll probably watch Dead Poet's Society. Then I'll only have two films left. :cool:

rauldc14

05-26-17, 01:41 PM

Buffalo '66 today for sure! About time I get to another of these! Maybe another one as well.

rauldc14

05-26-17, 05:30 PM

Buffalo '66

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9e09PFZAW4I/T5-pL6aC1oI/AAAAAAAABO8/Qte8WVP3Zps/s1600/buffalo66-thepast.png

I don't know a lot about Vincent Gallo, but I will echo nearly everyone in calling him a sleezeball. Like Cricket I don't know if this is real acting or if his real life character plays the role with ease. The whole time through I was engaged with what was going on, expecting some sort of escalation or surprise with where the story was going. We didn't necessarily get that, but it still held my attention the whole time. Without a girl like Christina Ricci, this film could have fallen on it's face. With her, it was pretty enjoyable, although certainly it was hard at times to believe she would want anything to do with Billy. But I've seen pairings like this in real life before, often leading to me shaking my head.

I wouldn't say the film especially excels at anything, but it was a decent watch. I thought there would be more to the Buffalo story than what there actually was, so in that case it was a disappointment. I was almost caught off guard with the ending, but I originally thought something like that was bound to happen anyways.

I thought it was great when Ricci got that strike too BTW. Thought that was funny as hell.

3+

Camo

05-27-17, 03:09 AM

How long was the version that you watched? I saw some stuff that I was very upset over, but I didn't see anything where he was cramming anything into their mouths. Thank God I didn't! The tying of the rocks onto their bodies was more than enough for me.

OK. Yeah, I don't remember that at all in there.

I 100% agree with you. I think it was because she was disappointed with Lucas and how he treated her. Her feelings were hurt and she said something bad about him. I think children know what they are saying is wrong when they say something like that (when they are falsely accusing someone) - or else they wouldn't say it - but there is no way they ever know the full extent of the effect that can happen when something like that is said.

And my theories?
You knew something had to have happened to her because of what she knew and how she described a man to be in that situation.

So I figured it was possible that it was her brother. I know he was crying when they were doing whatever it was with the Christmas stuff. Part of me thought that maybe he felt guilty about something - I was really trying to come up with somebody. But then again, I figured that maybe, and most likely, he was just upset over his baby sister being treated that way.

And then I thought that maybe it was the godfather of Lucas' son. For one thing, he was the only one who stood by him. Now, I am not saying that made him guilty, but he seemed to be the one person who is certain about Lucas. Why? Unless he knows Lucas definitely didn't do anything, and that is because he was the guilty party. Second, the kids were all repeating the same thing about a basement and a tapestry, I guess. In the godfather's basement, I believe that was a tapestry hanging there when Lucas' son was looking over the photos.

That was why I thought those things. But when you bring up the picture situation, that kind of cancels my theories out, I guess.

I don't think the film was enough about the criminal act for it to have actually happened if that makes sense. I mean, i don't think she was abused at all, i think they would have shown it. The film was about the witch hunt not the abuse. And yeah i think the pictures explains that, wasn't aware that was only on certain versions.

Camo

05-27-17, 03:26 AM

Updated the second post. Don't think i missed anything but if i did let me know.

So glad with Citizens reaction to Buffalo '66 :up:. I think oddly this has been the HOF where we liked each others noms the most. I'll try to comment on your review and the discussion later. And completely understand your reaction Cosmic, i was expecting much more of that than Citizens reaction. Glad you didn't despise it at least. Good to see you got something out of it Raul even though it wasn't that good for you. Also happy to see Spring, Summer getting a bit more of a positive reception with ScarlettLions review.

As well as the three that have finished, six have watched at least half: seven if you count Vamp i was only talking about people who've posted about at least half. Great work :up:

Nestorio_Miklos

05-27-17, 06:37 AM

The Broken Circle Breakdown
- plenty of spoilers below -

So I watched this psychological drama this morning and was quite impressed. First I thought to myself: Oh crap, yet another cancer cliche movie, well let's get some tissue ready, but a big surprise, it was not just about that. This film is much deeper. We see the most important and deepest questions of life and death. We see this deep down hidden desire after something transcendent in our lives, whether we want it or not.

We watch this couple how they're developing a nice relationship and falling in love. Elise, tattoo studio owner with artistic soul and christian based upbringing and Didier, bluegrass banjo player with his band and his bohemian life. Not able to take his commitment seriously he is taken by surprise Elise announcing him she's 3 month pregnant. First pissed, then decided and happy Didier starts to reconstruct the house to bring the baby to a nice home. Then the happy period of life comes having the baby Maybelle, Elise joining the band going for gigs both trying hard to be a family. All that goes awry when they learn Maybelle has got cancer and subsequently dies. There are moments of hope, tears, anger, sorrow.

I like the Mother's Day scene as they mute the dialogues because nobody was listening to anybody and was nicely supplemented by quiet and sad score. Then we see them both, each in front of their own shrine facing the truth, Didier in front of the TV with booze and smokes, Elise with cross, candles and pictures of Maybelle nicely showing the differences. They pick the fights and both search who to blame. Very important moment. They needed to yell it out and not just keep quiet in front of their shrines. So they move forward refurbishing Maybelle's room to a study, making love but the sadness and anger is still there. And religion issue comes up with the hawk stickers and Bush's speech. I mean, it was always there but both, Didier and Elise, were suppressing it avoiding the topic. Didier was only pretending to respect her beliefs and devotions. Now that tragedy and death of daughter is experienced, they face the differences. Also, Elise was suppressing her inner disagreement with a ridiculed bluegrass-ish Marriage vows. She would rather have a proper marriage in a church with a priest considering her Christian roots. All these huge differences and how their personalities and principles were constituted by their families, religion, morals, philosophy are coming out on light.

Then they looking for a new identities trying to overcome the sadness and anger becoming Monroe and Alabama and God-hates-you-plea arrived to stage, utterly awkward and out of the place addressing a bunch of people who just came to enjoy the music. But Monroe/Didier was not addressing the crowd, he was asking very important questions to himself. Also very important moment of the film.

Out of the body experience and Didier wanting to say hi to Maybelle slowly believing in hereafter dropping his purely materialistic beliefs all that supplemented with the final concert was amazing. I was crying. Great acting, great soundtrack, good picture, arts, story etc. And actually a friend of mine, blue grass player himself, told me that the blue grass scene in Belgium was very scarce and bands were going to neighboring countries for gigs but this movie actually got it moving there. Great nom @ScarlettLion!

CosmicRunaway

05-27-17, 07:32 AM

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Dead Poets Society (1989)
Dir. Peter Weir
Starring: Robert Sean Leonard, Robin Williams, Ethan Hawke

This is probably a very unpopular opinion, but I have never been a fan of the late Robin Williams. He always did a great job committing to his performances, but there's just something about his acting or characters that prevents me from being drawn in, particularly with his comedy, and I've never been able to pinpoint what that is. That said, this is one film where I can actually see why other people love him and find him so influential. There was still some unseen thing I found slightly off-putting, but Keating was very charming with an obvious passion that I believe actually would inspire students to follow their hearts. Keating has a comparatively small amount of screen time, which I think works to the film's benefit because he is really just a catalyst, and not the main focus of the story.

I thought it was interesting to follow each of the boys to see how they were motivated to overcome obstacles or to discover their own passions. Many of the performances were good, with Robert Sean Leonard in particular standing out, however I didn't like Ethan Hawke's performance or his character, so for me he really brought down any scene he was part of. A few of the boys were unfortunately rather underdeveloped as well, and I had a hard time remembering who each one of them were. Someone here previously used the word “interchangeable” to describe them, and I think that is very fitting.

While I enjoyed Dead Poets Society a lot more this time than when I had previously seen it, I still thought it was a little contrived, and found the themes to be quite uneven. On one hand it's preaching about individuality and following your dreams, while simultaneously warning audiences about the dangers of nonconformity. These two ideas could be blended together to show that it's worth your time and the risk to be creative, but the film completely fails to do so. Instead it seems to harshly tell viewers to stay in line or face the consequences, which I don't think was actually the filmmaker's intention. Despite the mixed message, the film is still fairly enjoyable, and I'm glad I got the chance to see it again and change my opinion.

SilentVamp

05-27-17, 01:41 PM

I don't think the film was enough about the criminal act for it to have actually happened if that makes sense. I mean, i don't think she was abused at all, i think they would have shown it. The film was about the witch hunt not the abuse. And yeah i think the pictures explains that, wasn't aware that was only on certain versions.
I knew the film was more about the accusation and not the abuse, but when I was watching it, all I did was question why this kid would know so much detail about a man unless something had happened to her. A kid can say someone did something wrong and nobody did anything at all. But it was the detail that made me question it all (as in, who could've done something to her). Then, when I heard that others have seen a photo that was shown to her, that completely changed my thoughts about who did anything to her because that tells you why she ever had any details to be able to describe what supposedly happened with Lucas. That one little bit really changed the movie for me. I don't see why it would've been cut. It is ridiculous and if it couldn't be shown in theaters, fine. But I am watching it at home. What would the big deal have been if it had been left in?
When I think about it, I vaguely remember her being shown the phone by her brother, but I honestly don't remember it being anything that made me think "Oh, I bet that's where she got the idea from". Unless I really wasn't paying attention at the one moment, I think it was a scene that was in and out of my head as soon as I saw it because I didn't think it was anything in particular.
Say something did happen to her, I don't think they ever would've shown it. If nothing else, it would've left people with questions like I had, I think.

Camo

05-27-17, 01:58 PM

I knew the film was more about the accusation and not the abuse, but when I was watching it, all I did was question why this kid would know so much detail about a man unless something had happened to her. A kid can say someone did something wrong and nobody did anything at all. But it was the detail that made me question it all (as in, who could've done something to her). Then, when I heard that others have seen a photo that was shown to her, that completely changed my thoughts about who did anything to her because that tells you why she ever had any details to be able to describe what supposedly happened with Lucas. That one little bit really changed the movie for me. I don't see why it would've been cut. It is ridiculous and if it couldn't be shown in theaters, fine. But I am watching it at home. What would the big deal have been if it had been left in?
When I think about it, I vaguely remember her being shown the phone by her brother, but I honestly don't remember it being anything that made me think "Oh, I bet that's where she got the idea from". Unless I really wasn't paying attention at the one moment, I think it was a scene that was in and out of my head as soon as I saw it because I didn't think it was anything in particular.
Say something did happen to her, I don't think they ever would've shown it. If nothing else, it would've left people with questions like I had, I think.

I kind of misworded that. I didn't mean they would have openly came out and said this is the person who actually abused her. What i mean is that they wouldn't have given you the answer with the brother showing the pictures and also that they would have probably have shown you some signs of abuse in her and left it ambiguous who actually did but made it clear she was abused at some point.

Can totally see how that being left out would've made you do that, i would've thought that too without the pictures which is why i mentioned that in the post you initially quoted. You probably had quite a different experience than those of us who did see that scene while watching it. And as Cosmic pointed out it happens really quickly so without seeing what was on the phone you wouldn't have thought anything of it. Weird that they took it out, guess it's just the idea of such a young girl looking at porn but i seriously doubt she was actually shown porn, i think they would have just shown the brother giving it to her then they would have filmed someone else holding the phone with porn on it.

SilentVamp

05-27-17, 07:10 PM

Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter…and Spring

I am one who really likes long movies, but what I am not fond of are slow movies. There is a big difference between the two. Very rarely do I comment on the length of a film, but I most certainly will comment on its pace.

I thought this movie was very slow, and much slower than it should’ve been. From what I understand there are a lot of references to Buddhism, and maybe that has something to do with the pace, too. Does the supposed “calming” pace of the film have something to do with it? Because I don’t know why it was that slow. It made an average length movie feel like an epic one.

I made it known before that I didn’t care for the scenes with the animals. I appreciated the fact that he made the boy wear the rock as punishment, but I didn’t care to see that done to the animals. Maybe if we saw him attach the rocks and you saw the struggle for a couple of seconds, but no more than that. I don’t want to see such long shots of these creatures suffering.

I wasn’t happy with “Spring” for that reason. The kid was a brat. “Summer” was OK until I had to see him have sex with her twice. Why? We knew they did it already, and that was most likely what they were going off to do again, but I don’t want to sit through it again. Who cares?!

Now, I, for one, liked the “Fall” segment the best. I enjoyed the detectives (or were they just plain clothes policemen?) in it. I liked watching that segment play out the most. Perhaps it had something to do with the fact that it took such a different turn in the story (but that may have something to do with the change in his life’s story). It was just an overall different tone. As for the character being played by a new actor, I didn’t understand that either. My only explanation for that (and this was the only way that I could accept the fact that it was a different actor) is that because he had changed so much inside, that it also helped to change his appearance outside. When he left there, he became a different man (and then that is why a different man was literally playing the character).

With “Winter”, he returns. Then he looks as if he were the same person he was before “Fall”, which is another reason why I say that is why a different actor portrayed him in that segment then. I am probably stretching it, but that is my theory. And while I am on “Winter”, that dragged on. How long did I have to see him climb and hike?

And I can see that we all go in circles, I suppose, and that is why we ended with the beginning, "Spring", but the film didn't really need that added on.

I just really need to know why filmmakers think a slow pace is necessary. I have no problem with it when it is used in, for example, a suspense film. But when it is used in what is just supposed to be a story, I don’t see its purpose. And I completely understand a longer film to give more detail to a story. But why is a slow pace necessary? All it makes me want to do is rip my hair out of my head. This was an average length film that really didn’t need to be that long at all.

2

SilentVamp

05-27-17, 07:15 PM

Nightmare Alley

I knew I saw this movie. :) I thought I did, but as I watched it, I wasn’t sure. And then I saw Tyrone Power as “The Great Stanton”, and then I knew that I definitely saw it. Maybe not all the way through, but definitely starting at that point in the film (and I definitely remembered the ending and the way he looks at the end).

I wasn’t as into the first part of it – with the carnival – as I was later on. At first it seemed like it wasn’t sure what kind of story it wanted to tell, but when the carnival was over (and I now get why there was all of that in the story), I liked it a lot better.

There were questions that I had, though:
-How did she make that electric current happen between her hands? Or am I not supposed to ask that? :) I just don’t remember if that was explained.
-I am a little confused about The Code. How could he get it all correct? I know it had something to do with the way she would ask the questions that he would know how to answer them. But some of those answers were SO specific that I didn’t understand how anyone could possibly remember every possible way that a question should be asked to know every possible way that the question should be answered.
-Why would he have ever trusted the therapist? That baffled me most of all!! You’d think he’d be smarter than to do something as stupid as that! But I suppose every person, such as he was, has a downfall at some point.
-Why is this called “Nightmare Alley”? Am I missing something here? With that sort of title I thought I was getting something like a gun-shooting noir. Not one that has characters using false supernatural powers. :)

And is it just me, or has Coleen Gray been nominated a few times lately? I, of course, am one of the guilty people for having nominated a film with her in the Noir HoF. :)

Anyway, it was an interesting little picture with some good performances. So, thanks to Citizen Rules for giving me entertaining way to spend a Saturday afternoon. :)

3.5

SilentVamp

05-27-17, 07:18 PM

The Three Musketeers

I didn’t know if I saw this or not. I knew everyone that appeared in this film, which is why I thought I’d seen it, but none of it looked familiar to me.

Anyway, I have never read any of the Musketeer stories, but I knew the basic storyline and the characters. In fact, I have seen one filmed version, and that was a 1960’s miniseries starring Jeremy Brett (that was why I watched it :)) as D'Artagnan, which I thought was a fairly decent watch. Basically, I didn’t go into this film completely ignorant to the story.

I didn’t expect this to be as much of a comedy as it was. I knew there would be some humor in it, but I didn’t think there would be that much comedy – if that makes sense at all. And the comedy I liked. I thought quite a bit of it was funny. The action moments were entertaining, too, but even though I know this is a swashbuckler film, at times I wished there would’ve been more dialogue and less action.

The sets were really nice, but I absolutely loved the costumes.

As for the cast, well, if you were a member of the last Noir HoF, you know that I am not a big fan of Charlton Heston. :) I won’t even begin to tell you what my opinion is of that man, except to say that I never saw anything too spectacular in his performances. I am also not the biggest fan of Michael York, but he was good in this movie, and he fit the role a lot better than I thought he would. And, of course the rest of the cast was fine, too.

The DVD that I watched had The Four Musketeers with it. I suppose I should’ve watched that one, too, when I had it (just to see how it compared to this one), but this was the second of the films that I watched for the HoF, and the first that weekend when I had my HoF movie-watching marathon going on. So I wasn’t going to spend any extra time watching other movies. Maybe in the future I will give it a try, though. I am kind of curious to see it.

This was an entertaining picture. I find nothing wrong with light-hearted films (and I love period pieces). So it was something different to watch in this HoF, which was nice to do.

3.5

SilentVamp

05-27-17, 07:20 PM

The Hunt

Having already talked briefly about my opinion/theory on the main part of this story, I don’t know what to write as I have already said what I wanted to in regards to that part of it. I will say again, though, that since I found out that the film – US version – seemed to eliminate a major thing that happened in the movie, I don’t have the same feeling towards it as I did. What I mean is, I do think I liked the idea of guessing what could have made her actually come up with the story, but at the same time, I wish it would’ve been very clear from the beginning because I wouldn’t have spent time afterwards actually wondering why a kid would say what she said (I know why she did it – but it was the fact of her knowing what to say that I speculated on).

I thought this movie was a very frustrating film, and I just can’t imagine what it would be like for someone who didn’t do anything wrong to be accused of something like that. I just really can’t even begin to think about how horrible it would be to have that happen and to, essentially, have your life taken away from you.

When it got to the end, though, I did think
that someone would take a shot at him. I figured that would happen when they all were there for that event. I thought, perhaps, he would get shot, but I like it better that this person literally gave him a warning shot. If we are to be honest, there will always be someone who thinks that he did it. I thought that was a good way to end the film, but that was even quite frustrating for me to watch, too.
And it was very frustrating to see him get beat like that. I don’t see how – even in a small town – and even with what he was accused of – he could be treated like that and they could get away with it. I just don’t understand how things like that happen.

The cast was very good, but it really isn’t a surprise that Mads Mikkelsen would be the standout. It is his picture, it is his story, and he portrays a guy that you can do nothing else but feel for him.

I thought this was a very, very good movie, and I can’t say it was the kind of film that can be enjoyed, but it is still good storytelling.

4.5

cricket

05-27-17, 07:27 PM

Am I the only one that wasn't 100% convinced of the guy's innocence in The Hunt? I was left with the feeling that he could have done it, even though it was obviously never shown.

Camo

05-27-17, 07:32 PM

Am I the only one that wasn't 100% convinced of the guy's innocence in The Hunt? I was left with the feeling that he could have done it, even though it was obviously never shown.

Did her abrupt change in demeanour once her crush didn't work out the way her young mind thought it would not convince you there? I don't think there'd be a scene of him walking her home in the way it was if this was a possibility.

cricket

05-27-17, 07:37 PM

Did her abrupt change in demeanour once her crush didn't work out the way her young mind thought it would not convince you there? I don't think there'd be a scene of him walking her home in the way it was if this was a possibility.

I'm not sure. It may just come down to the fact that there's no proof of his innocence, and the ambiguous ending made me feel that way about the whole movie.

Camo

05-27-17, 07:43 PM

I'm not sure. It may just come down to the fact that there's no proof of his innocence, and the ambiguous ending made me feel that way about the whole movie.

One of the biggest points is surely that you shouldn't have to prove innocence. You should have to prove guilt. Proving innocence is nearly impossible especially in situations based on verbal testimony which is not reliable at all ever anywhere.

cricket

05-27-17, 07:45 PM

One of the biggest points is surely that you shouldn't have to prove innocence. You should have to prove guilt. Proving innocence is nearly impossible especially in situations based on verbal testimony which is not reliable at all ever anywhere.

No question about it, and I do believe he was innocent. I'm just not 100% sure.

Camo

05-27-17, 07:47 PM

No question about it, and I do believe he was innocent. I'm just not 100% sure.

Who do you think it was?

cricket

05-27-17, 07:50 PM

Who do you think it was?

I don't understand the question

Camo

05-27-17, 07:54 PM

I don't understand the question

I think i may have meant to post this in that other thread

Citizen Rules

05-27-17, 10:54 PM

Buffalo '66

I don't know a lot about Vincent Gallo, but I will echo nearly everyone in calling him a sleezeball. ... Am I the only one who liked him? ha:p I mean yeah he wasn't a nice guy, he was pretty far out there...but as the film had dark comedy elements and wasn't trying to be realistic, I seen Gallo as an eclectic character, in the same vein as The Big Lebowski. As soon as I seen Gallo released from jail and then he wanted back in to use the bathroom, I knew that this wasn't shooting for ultra realism, so then anything he did was OK as it was more of a offbeat type film.

Citizen Rules

05-27-17, 11:46 PM

Nightmare Alley

There were questions that I had, though:
How did she make that electric current happen between her hands? Or am I not supposed to ask that? :) I just don’t remember if that was explained. You can ask that:p...and I'm glad you did:)...as that electrical current was real! Not a cinematic trick but a demonstration of a Tesla coil. When I was in grade school some guy, I guess he might have been a scientist...brought a Tesla coil and we did something very similar. We put our hand on this chrome ball that was part of the device, and then as long as you didn't stop touching it, current would flow through you and arch...a really big and bright arch, to a person standing near, just like in the movie.

I'm pretty sure they too had their hands on the coil, because I do remember if you let go, you got a damn good electrical jolt. I had a really weird school! I doubt they would ever let kids do that now, crazy stuff:cool:

Camo

05-28-17, 06:23 AM

Camo

05-28-17, 06:29 AM

I mean...i'm nearly speechless, 80%+ of you guys have the exact same opinion as Miss Vicky.

Camo

05-28-17, 06:30 AM

sheep

Camo

05-28-17, 06:32 AM

:up: ScarletLion for having your own opinion.

cricket

05-28-17, 06:59 AM

Going to throw out a controversial opinion (more like a fact actually) in that i don't think everyone would be as straight forward with Spring, Summer if Miss Vicky hadn't reviewed and mentioned the animal abuse first.

I don't think i've ever seen such a large amount of members have the same opinion about a film in any HOF. My lord.

Sorry Nesto, it's absolutely one of the best films nominated i'm with you.

You know, I was thinking about this. I usually chalk up an acclaimed movie that I don't like to taste, but I really didn't think it was that good. Even the cinematography which a lot of people praise, I think is only exceptional in brief scattered shots. I think it's got an uneven tone with an average story and average acting. There's plenty of symbolism thrown in, but I don't think that's done in a brilliant way either. I just don't see anything great about any of it.

CosmicRunaway

05-28-17, 07:52 AM

I didn't really read anyone's reviews of Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter until after I had already seen it and had written down what I was planning to mention anyway, which is typically what I do for all HoF films. Unless I've already seen them before of course, in which case I'll read the reviews as they're posted.

I rather liked the film, particularly Fall and Winter (though Fall is my clear favourite). Despite how much I disliked the animal torture at the start, I did like the rest of the Spring segment, and would still think that the final Spring segment was unnecessary even if more animal abuse hadn't been shown. I'm not sure if that actually came across in what I wrote about the film. For awhile there I was having a lot of trouble writing for some reason, so a few of my write-ups here are poorly written because of that.

Miss Vicky

05-28-17, 11:11 AM

I mean...i'm nearly speechless, 80%+ of you guys have the exact same opinion as Miss Vicky.
Or maybe 80% of us are just disgusted by animal torture?

Even without those scenes I would've found it to be mediocre at best.

Nestorio_Miklos

05-28-17, 12:47 PM

Nightmare Alley
- spoilers below -

I love carnivals ever since I was a kid. They always come about the same time in the spring. We used to wait for them as kids, helping out with little things, mostly setting up the stands. Growing up in a town, we were all so happy to see all kinds of animals from ponies, horse, dogs, some reptilians in a terrarium and sometimes they had even some pumas (cougars). We would always get new exotic classmates for 3 - 4 months, mostly gypsies. And this would repeat every year up until the urbanization and progress would destroy every little piece of green. Then they wouldn't arrive to our neighborhood any more. There was no place to set up the carnival to. We knew there were all kinds of frauds and tricks involved but we didn't care. We loved it and were envious of their freedom moving around the country always happy, joyful and free-spirited.

But, of course they too are people with their feelings and emotions. There too is jealousy. betrayal, love, hate, anger, fraud, thieves, tramps, alcoholics and so on. We are watching this mentalist couple using a code to make a show being able to read and recognize the objects while blindfolded. Handsome Stanton helping them out on stage has something on his mind. He would like to make it big and is full of ideas. He's missing only one piece to a puzzle. He needs that code. Here actually I'm not sure why doesn't he just make his own code? But whatever. We see Zeena's husband Pete on his drinking spree and the bottle gets mysteriously switched and he ends up poisoning himself with some kind of denatured alcohol. There's Stanton's chance to get the code and go solo with Zeena. But Molly is younger and prettier. So eventually he is forced to marry her and takes her on the show instead. And they are a big show in Chicago. And so on.

Acting was good and I like Molly character and she was pretty too. Tyrone Power did a great job of course. The whole mood of the movie was nicely balanced and it wasn't all that predictable as it seemed to be.

I must say I got also fooled with the tarot cards and was expecting Stanton to end up hanging himself . Especially after Molly said he shouldn't play with people like that giving them false hopes and faking God acts. OK, he ended up as a bum drinking nearly to delirium tremens. Then destroyed not even recognized by carnival people hired as another geek to play a monster. But I must say I found it very happy ending when Molly recognized him and even more when Stanton recognized her. That was something. I felt so good and relieved after the ending. I think they lived good lives after this with a bunch of kids. :D:D:D. Great nom Citizen Rules!

Nestorio_Miklos

05-28-17, 12:59 PM

I'm speeding up a bit as I just joined 1940s HOF.

Every time after i write my paragraph i read all reviews to a film i just watched. It is amazing how all of us watching and reviewing the films from all kinds of different angles. I like this diversity and watching films thru HOF participation gives me a lot. :)

SilentVamp

05-28-17, 03:05 PM

Going to throw out a controversial opinion (more like a fact actually) in that i don't think everyone would be as straight forward with Spring, Summer if Miss Vicky hadn't reviewed and mentioned the animal abuse first.
I was going to say something long before I read her review. As soon as I saw it I knew it was going to be one of the things that I had to mention. I just didn't care for it.

CosmicRunaway

05-28-17, 03:31 PM

Perhaps my writer's block hasn't passed at all, because I'm struggling to write more than 3 sentences on Forbidden Games. :facepalm:

CosmicRunaway

05-28-17, 04:06 PM

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=30888

Forbidden Games/Jeux interdits (1952)
Dir. Rene Clement
Starring: Brigitte Fossey, Georges Poujouly, Lucien Hubert

I honestly don't have much to say about this film because it left little to no impact at all. I wasn't able to get invested in any of the characters or their stories, and thus felt completely disconnected from the emotional heart of the film. I understand that this is supposed to be a story about the children's self-centred yet innocent perception of the world, and how their young minds are forced to cope with horrors they don't truly understand, however it failed to engage me in any meaningful way.

When left to my own devices, I do not tend to watch many films that are mainly dramas because I frequently have completely neutral responses to them, which is what has happened here with Forbidden Games. I think the only part of this film I'm really going to remember is the abrupt ending. I assume it is supposed to be heart-breaking, but unfortunately it just felt unfinished to me. I've been accused of being heartless by friends, and I'm starting to wonder if that could actually be the case.

cricket

05-28-17, 04:08 PM

Heartless!

rauldc14

05-28-17, 04:52 PM

Dances With Wolves

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/26/3e/b1/263eb1474d4b6e9e5d4a3a631cc2cfb5.jpg

Let me be the first to say that I think this is a movie that is hard to judge on a first watch. Technically speaking, the film is very sound. Costner gives a really good lead performance, the sound and the music are good, the cinematography is beautiful and the narration gives it a very important feel. Unfortunately for me, it's epicness is not really near the level of say a Gladiator or a Braveheart for me.

The most important part of an epic for me is it's story and this isn't one that made me completely lose interest but it isn't one that really had me captivated either. Like I said I enjoyed Costner as Dances with Wolves but there were some Sioux members acting that I really didn't care for. I also wasn't all that impressed with Mary McDonnell and I didn't find their love story all that engaging or gripping either. It's runtime felt a little real, it felt like a very long movie. There's many 3+ hour films that seem to go by at a far better pace, so I wasn't a big fan of the films pace either.

I absolutely loved her the scenes with Costner and Two Socks though. Beautiful segments of film there.

I would certainly like to give the film another watch at some point though and see how I feel about it again.

For now, I'll just consider it something fairly average for me. Put me on Team Goodfellas.

3

cricket

05-28-17, 04:58 PM

I agree with you on Mary McDonnell; I didn't care for her either. I loved the rest of it though.

Miss Vicky

05-28-17, 06:15 PM

Oh look, raul didn't care for a movie that I love. That's a surprise... :laugh:

Oh well. At least you didn't hate it. Here's hoping it grows on you in the future.

Blix the Goblin

05-28-17, 06:36 PM

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/midvalley9/wings-of-desire-in-library.jpg

Wings of Desire

After having seen the dreadful City of Angels several times growing up due to my mom being a huge Meg Ryan fan, It was quite the revelation to finally experience Wings of Desire which I have long known about but never gotten around to watching. While the remake is a half-baked romance, this feature is a much more fully formed picture about being on the outside looking in, aware of what people experience but not having it yourself. The voyeur sees in monochrome, but when he's finally human, it's all in glorious color. I love the appearances by Nick Cave, and it was surprising to find out that Peter Falk is in fact a fallen angel. I'll never be able to watch Columbo the same way again!

7/10

CosmicRunaway

05-28-17, 06:52 PM

I'll never be able to watch Columbo the same way again!
The best way to watch Columbo is just to keep an eye on Peter Falk's facial expressions anyway. No context is necessary to be entertained haha.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/ce751e89f808a033b5944ba43ff22e74/tumblr_nsmlfl1SrD1rrwtg4o1_400.gif

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Ol9SrX39haU/V8Ib7o5nFWI/AAAAAAAADKo/6ihQC4IWObI4iJJypeWeYLtXJ7577qSQQCHM/s640/columbo.gif

SilentVamp

05-28-17, 08:06 PM

Buffalo ‘66

You know what? It was a good thing that I watched this before I read cricket’s review because I don’t know if I could’ve taken the film seriously after that. I think I would’ve spent the entire time thinking about all of the things that he said about Vincent Gallo every time I looked at him, and I just would’ve laughed. :)

I don’t really know anything about him. I’ve heard the name and I have seen the face, but I don’t think I ever would’ve been able to put the two together. I really didn’t even have an inking as to what I would be in for with this film.

When it started, I thought it started kind of slow. OK. He needs to find a restroom. Did it really have to take that long to get to one and begin the story? :) But once he got her involved in everything, the film picked up for me.

I felt sorry for his character. Despite what his purpose was after he got out of prison, I felt sorry for him. I thought he was very pathetic. I kind of think that is what made Christina Ricci be drawn to him. She seemed like an unhappy person herself. And I think she felt that there was something there that would bond them together. That is how I looked at it.

I can say that the ending was extremely satisfying. I was very happy to have it end in a way that I really wanted it to. After all, as the film went on, I ended up really liking him, and I didn’t want it to end in a way where he would’ve disappointed me. So this was a good ending.

I thought he was very good in the movie. Very good. I liked him a lot. I don’t know what he is like in real life, but judging from what others know about him, he wouldn’t be a person I would care too much for, but I do have to give him respect for a very good performance.

The same for Christina Ricci. I am not a fan of hers (I’ve got my reasons), but I will show respect when it is deserved, and her performance deserves it, too. I liked her in here.

Complaints? Minor. I have never been to a single adult dance class where people dress the way that she was dressed in hers. Also, how come we only hear the taps on her shoes when she has her little dance moment in the bowling alley (including when she is just walking in them before she dances)? Anyone who has ever worn tap shoes knows that unless you are on carpet, they make noise when you walk. So, a couple of nit-picking things, but I just wanted to mention them, anyway.

I don’t honestly have much more to say about this movie except that I really liked it. It is that simple.

4.5

SilentVamp

05-28-17, 08:09 PM

Wings of Desire

When I say that I saw this movie before, I am talking about when I was a kid. My brother was really into this one. I actually remembered some of it pretty well (that was mainly some of the imagery and the fact that Peter Falk was in it).

If I were to criticize anything, it would be her speech at the end. I think that went on a little too long. After awhile, I actually had to try to keep myself from zoning out. It just got to sounding like babble. I didn’t think it should’ve gone on that long. It got to be annoying for me.

Otherwise…..

I thought this was a pretty good movie. I loved the look of it. Beautifully shot in black and white. And while I know they felt the color scenes were necessary, I think I would’ve preferred it to have just remained in black and white.

I liked the idea of being able to hear people’s thoughts. I do think if we could hear what someone else was thinking, it would be just as varied as what was said in the film. I just wish they wouldn’t have focused so much on that. I think it overdid that a little bit, but I still liked it.

I didn’t really see where the love interest part came in. I think I would’ve liked a little more attention to that. I didn’t really see anything that gave me this strong idea that he definitely wanted to be mortal for her. It just seemed to happen. Yes, he noticed her, but I wish more time would’ve been spent on his admiring her from a far, so to speak. Then I maybe would’ve been more into the idea that he was actually in love with her.

I would’ve liked a little more Peter Falk. But then again, I always want more Peter Falk with anything that he is in.
I forgot that he had once been an angel. I remembered it as soon as he spoke to him (when he couldn’t see him).
I thought that was a nice touch to the story. I know the best line involved those guys that walked past him, and the one guy asked if that was Columbo, and I think the other guy said that he wouldn’t wear a coat that bad-looking, or something like that. That got a chuckle out of me. :)

I have never seen the Meg Ryan-Nicolas Cage version. So you will get no comparisons from me regarding that film.

All-in-all, I thought it was a good movie.

3.5

SilentVamp

05-29-17, 02:57 AM

Dances With Wolves

I saw this more than once years ago. I watched it a few times. Then, all of a sudden, it was like it was out of my life. It was no longer on TV. I didn’t own it. So I never watched it again. Then the DVD was bought for me a few years ago, but I just never got around to watching it until now.

Because I had seen it a few times, there was a lot that I remembered to this very day when I saw it again. But there was something that I’d forgotten. Something I didn’t like in the film, and maybe that was because I didn’t care for anything regarding it and it was just blocked from my mind because I didn’t think it was necessary. But I will save the negative for later.

I love Kevin Costner. I love everything about the man. I am a big fan of his. He is one of those few people that I say are on a list of people that I genuinely like. He is one of my big favorites. So I am probably going to be a bit biased when it comes to a film of his or one of his performances. But there it is. It can’t be controlled on my part. I just love the man. Plus, it doesn’t hurt him any that he looks quite fine in Yankee Blue. :yup: :D

Anyway, I enjoy the story in this film, and I am in love with the scenery, cinematography and the score. I have always felt that this was a beautiful film, and I think this was quite an achievement for a man who had never directed a film before.

I do have a tendency to feel as Dunbar did. I can understand his desire to get out west and, as he says, “To see the frontier before it is gone”. There is something incredibly sad about the disappearance of it all (not necessarily just out west but everywhere). I understand others will think it is progress and maybe even evolution, but I just see it as greed and cruelty. Now, I am not going to go on a big rant about anything in particular, but I was horribly disappointed to not see any buffalo anywhere (outside of a state park, which I didn’t go to – I seriously did not know that I wouldn’t even see one somewhere until I got out there - yet, I had to see Bison burgers sold at various places), and I am very anti-Reservations for people to live on. And I will leave it at that.

A couple of things that I always got a kick out of was how Two Socks (the wolf) seemed like such a busybody to me. He was always around being nosey. I thought it was cute. :) And I love to see Dunbar’s interactions with the Indians in the beginning and how his relationship evolved with them. I also always found it so interesting how his character adapted to that way of living.

Now, I liked all of the actors in the film, actually, except for one. And I forgot how I felt until I watched this movie again. Like I said, maybe I just chose to block it from my mind. I absolutely abhor Mary McDonnell in here and I see no point whatsoever to her character except to have someone there to translate the languages. She had been with them since she was a child. Why did she not look more like someone who had grown up in that environment? Why wouldn’t her hair be longer after all those years? She looked so unattractive. Her hair was unkempt. She looked like a slob, actually. I have never been able to understand how/why/when they actually fell in love with each other. I don’t believe Dunbar would’ve been attracted to her at all, looks wise, when there were some women that were so much better that happened to be Sioux. Of course, that is right. As Kicking Bird’s wife said, it was like it was natural that they would be together because they were both white. Really???? :rolleyes: She was horrible. Nobody could be that desperate! Besides, Stands With A Fist had her Sioux husband. I know that was all she knew then, but, still, why couldn’t Dunbar be attracted to a Sioux instead of a white woman? The whole romance that was supposed to be there was just silly for me. I didn’t see anything blossom and I saw no reason for it. If they wanted this character so there would be a translator, fine. They could’ve had the character be a man and it would’ve worked, too. I just thought the fact that it had to end up where they had a romantic relationship was silly. I am sure there are many men out there that don’t mind random (and sometimes pointless romances) in a story, but I once heard that they are thrown in for the women in the audience. I find that to be so interesting because one of the worst things to me are the random (and sometimes pointless) romances in a story. I really kind of hate them. And I knew that this occurred in this film, but I forgot how it played out (or didn’t really play out, as far as I am concerned – it was like it just suddenly happened). I honestly think that part was so ridiculous that it spoils the film.

Now, I am tempted to take my rating down a little bit because I really hate that aspect of the story. I really do want to do that. But you know what? The rest of the film is so damn good that I think I will just block Mary McDonnell and her unpleasantness from my mind again and rate this based on the rest of the film. I really can’t allow myself to hurt the rest of a very good film because of a silly part that doesn’t really contribute too terribly much to the story, anyway.

5

Nestorio_Miklos

05-29-17, 06:51 AM

The Quiet Earth

- possible spoilers throughout -

Well, I was quite impressed by this hidden gem. Alone in the whole world. This is very familiar to me as since I was 12 I would regularly daydreaming and envisioning being by myself in the whole world and then eventually rescuing this girl etc. Usually it was because I was inamorate to a new girl in class.:D:D:D Of course my daydreaming would include crazy rides on trucks, ships, cars, bulldozers or whatever crazy vehicle that was available. I would go "shopping" for whatever I couldn't have or blowing and burning stuff. It was my kind of escape from the reality. I think it is pretty common for kids however I still do that. :D So yes, this is pretty much what Craig Harrison did. Polished and enhanced his childhood daydreaming. At least I like to think so.:)

So now we watch this naked guy Zac waking up in a motel room quite tired. He cleans himself up after a heavy night and goes to mind his business. We see pills and a bottle of booze which indicates he was probably trying to commit suicide. Right away it it clear that something is wrong which was confirmed by the gas station scene and driving around the abandon cars honking. Then Zac realizes he's all by himself all Earth population wiped out by some Sun phenomena caused by a government research project. Unfortunately I didn't understand most of that physics and astrology talks. Perhaps @Clazor could shed some light on this please. Then Zac goes through the stages that pretty much reminded me of 5 stages of grief: 1. Denial and isolation, 2. Anger, 3. Bargaining, 4. Depression and 5. Acceptance. We can easily recognize the stages by all those completely by himself scenes.And it is grief as he just lost everybody.

Then after some time he meets this red-headed beauty and all is suddenly better, brighter. Zac and Joanne continue to verify his theory and they are happy. They trying to find more people and it is revealed that they survived only because they died during the blast. And then Api arrives to scene. Much more simple guy with his own agenda. They all, Zac, Joanne and Api, have their own business and it took a while for all of them to earn mutual trust. Zac elaborates his theory how to stop another blast by destroying the government site that he used to work in. Here I'm asking myself: Was Zac trying to kill himself again or was he well aware that by killing himself he would actually survive again?

I love this film and was enjoying every minute of it. Acting was great, dialogues, picture, arts. Nice touch with a priest making it out with a prostitute and subsequently burning to hell. :DIt wasn't too long and also it is a real art to make a good picture involving only 3 characters. I got me a new favorite film. Great nom Clazor! Thanks!

CosmicRunaway

05-29-17, 10:33 AM

I think it is pretty common for kids however I still do that. :D
I can't say I ever daydreamed about anything like that as a kid, but a few times over the last couple of years I've thought "You know, if everyone else in the world died or just disappeared, I'd be okay with that as long as the power stayed on". I think maybe I'm just becoming anti-social in my old age* though.

*-I'm only turning 30 this year but I honestly feel 80 sometimes haha.

Nestorio_Miklos

05-29-17, 12:20 PM

I can't say I ever daydreamed about anything like that as a kid, but a few times over the last couple of years I've thought "You know, if everyone else in the world died or just disappeared, I'd be okay with that as long as the power stayed on". I think maybe I'm just becoming anti-social in my old age* though.

*-I'm only turning 30 this year but I honestly feel 80 sometimes haha.
haha i was just kind of verifying if there's more of you guys daydreaming like that from the childhood.

ScarletLion

05-29-17, 12:35 PM

The Hunt.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/640x360/p04vk7rz.jpg

This was a rewatch for me but it remains a truly terrifying proposition really. The genius behind it stems from the fact that its a very simple concept. Wrongly accused of something so heinous - that's hardly a mindbending plot. But to tell the tale like this, and get Mikkelsen to nail it over 2 hours takes some doing. That means the script was the real winner here. It's a hugely entertaining film, yet there was this feeling of dread and woe throughout. The mass hysteria and (somewhat faux) outrage in today's society is noted on a smaller scale here, and it's a huge credit to director Thomas Vinterberg that the film is so engaging throughout.

One of the movies of 2012. Excellent.

Blix the Goblin

05-29-17, 12:43 PM

I can't say I ever daydreamed about anything like that as a kid, but a few times over the last couple of years I've thought "You know, if everyone else in the world died or just disappeared, I'd be okay with that as long as the power stayed on". I think maybe I'm just becoming anti-social in my old age* though..I prefer to fantasize that everyone is frozen in time and I can just chill out without having to interact with them.

I wouldn't do anything perverted... I swear!

Nestorio_Miklos

05-29-17, 12:52 PM

I prefer to fantasize that everyone is frozen in time and I can just chill out without having to interact with them.

I wouldn't do anything perverted... I swear!
that's kind of advanced daydreaming:D:D:D where did you get inspired to? I read this children's book about a boy waking up alone in the world and was daydreaming about it ever since. Hell if i could remember the name and author of that book.

Miss Vicky

05-29-17, 01:10 PM

I have never been able to understand how/why/when they actually fell in love with each other. I don’t believe Dunbar would’ve been attracted to her at all, looks wise, when there were some women that were so much better that happened to be Sioux. Of course, that is right. As Kicking Bird’s wife said, it was like it was natural that they would be together because they were both white. Really???? :rolleyes:

Obviously her main purpose in the film is to serve as an interpreter, but I didn't have a problem at all with their relationship. I actually found it totally believable that they would fall in love, not because they were both white but because they spent so much time together and could actually have conversations.

Besides that, I think McDonnell is pretty, though not strikingly so. Regardless, there's a lot more to attraction than just physical beauty.

:shrug:

seanc

05-29-17, 01:21 PM

silent vamp You find it hard to believe that two extremely isolated people with similar cultural backgrounds would fall in love when thrown together in this situation? I would find it hard to believe if they didn't relate intimately.

SilentVamp

05-29-17, 02:03 PM

Regardless, there's a lot more to attraction than just physical beauty.
I'd agree with this more if I thought there was something that would make her character appealing, but I didn't see anything that stood out except for the fact that she could speak English with him.

silent vamp You find it hard to believe that two extremely isolated people with similar cultural backgrounds would fall in love when thrown together in this situation? I would find it hard to believe if they didn't relate intimately.
I wouldn't find it so hard to believe if she hadn't been so young when she began to live with the Sioux. As far as I am concerned, any similar cultural background to Dunbar that she may have had is gone for her by that time. Of course, he just adapts to her way of living. So, in a way, their similar backgrounds aren't going to matter to either one, anyway.

Joel

05-29-17, 03:17 PM

'The Quiet Earth' (1985)

http://i.imgur.com/SsBa8E0.jpg

It's a very interesting movie and one which I'd recommend despite not having the best cast.

The score by John Charles is also fantastic.

I'd give it 7.5/10

This is one of my favorite movies ever. I know it's a bit on the bland side and doesn't have "this" or 'that" going for it to be a perfectly calibrated end of the world film but it doesn't matter to me. They took the premise and really nailed the atmosphere and included a house shopping spree (in much edited form). That is one of my fantasies. The despair alone would kill me but then they introduced the redhead..and then...uh oh..someone more physically enticing. I thought the movie worked in a twisted sort of way. I think it's a bit of a masterpiece. Wish more ppl felt the same.

CosmicRunaway

05-29-17, 03:59 PM

I just finished watching Dances with Wolves, so that's all the films completed now. I went ahead and watched the Extended Edition, so it basically took all day. It didn't really drag at all, so despite having an hour added it didn't feel bloated, which was good. :up:

I'd like to do something not at all related to that film for the rest of the evening though, so my write-up is going to have to wait until tomorrow haha.

Sarge

05-30-17, 10:02 AM

http://www.impawards.com/1990/posters/dances_with_wolves_ver4_xlg.jpg

Dances with wolves (1990)

I remember as a kid that was a lot of fuss about this film and that it did well.
I also remember that I had watched it because my Dad had it on VHS.
There is a vague memory that I found it boring. I was 11 at the time of it's release and so will have been 12 when I watched it. I was always going to struggle with a 3 hour film at that age and never mind one that is so dialogue heavy.

I was delighted when it was nominated on the HoF tournament, as I hadn't watched it since that first time and was almost certain that I would understand it more this time and almost certainly appreciate it more.

https://images.newrepublic.com/70da9ed6adefa220a389150d92073e10e9f3e313.jpeg?w=1000&q=65&dpi=1&fm=pjpg&fit=crop&crop=faces&h=667

The film stars Kevin Costner (above) playin Lt. John Dunbar who after being named as a hero requests to be posted to the Western frontier. He gets his wish but find the post deserted. He remains faithful to his posting and keeps a journal, which also serves as the narrative to the film.

He comes into contact with various animals and people whilst there, and eventually he finds himself face to face with a tribe of Sioux.

http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kr50vu8AYs1qzexpio1_500.jpg

What I liked
I loved so much about this film. The key thing for me is that I found it totally believable from start to finish. I was invested and immersed throughout.
The writing, acting and directing were superb and woven together created a special piece of film. I felt empathy with many of the characters throughout and the film took me on an emotional journey as well as a visual one.
I thought the cinematography to be spellbinding. The way it was shot simply captured the time and place that it was meant to portray. I was utterly convinced that these shots were taken at the Western frontier in the late 1860s.
The costumes seemed authentic and convincing, as did all of the characters.
One of the things that I appreciated most was the subtle, yet powerful story of the film with key messages of humanity throughout.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aNNw3S4YDVI/U4M170RbYoI/AAAAAAAAIbI/uJHn5s8LP58/s1600/DancesWithWolves05.jpg

What I didn't like
I am seriously struggling to find anything that I didn't like about this film.
The one thing that comes to mind is questions about how easy it seemed for 'Stands with fist' to recall vocabulary in order to communicate. It was more of a question than a problem though.
Apart from that nothing comes readily to mind.

https://abagond.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/bison-hunt.png

Summary
I loved this film. It really was a joy to watch. 3 hours long and I was disappointed that it ended. It has immediately gone into my top 20 films.
Such a well made film and it is easy to see why it won so many awards.
The characters, cinematography, costumes, directing, acting etc were, as I have already said, of a really high quality and they all combine to tell a wonderful story of hope, integrity, friendship, greed, prejudice and so much more. This is a film that has, action, romance, tension and drama, as well as offering so much more.
I am so pleased that it was nominated. Great shout Miss Vicky

4.5

Miss Vicky

05-30-17, 11:07 AM

Great write-up, Sarge!
Instant top 20? That's impressive. :up:

I'm really liking the responses to Dances With Wolves, well most of them anyway. I was on the fence about nominating it, since I rarely see people mention it on the forum, except to complain that it won so many Oscars instead of Goodfellas.

CosmicRunaway

05-30-17, 12:17 PM

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=30933

Dances With Wolves (1990)
Dir. Kevin Costner
Starring: Kevin Costner, Mary McDonnell, Graham Greene

While I know embarrassingly little about American history, Dances with Wolves does look and feel truly authentic. The costumes and sets are simply spectacular, and with a story that is almost universal in nature, facts like whether it was the Sioux or the Pawnee who were historically known as being the more aggressive tribe are irrelevant in my opinion. The Sioux in this film could easily have been replaced with a number of other Native American tribes instead, since the loss of resources and traditional ways of life was something that affected every tribe across the country. That fact is actually something that quietly haunts this film from start to finish, since we, as modern viewers, know exactly what is going to happen to these people. You can see that the invasion of their land weighs heavy on their minds, but they are unaware of the scope of the tragedies that will soon occur.

The following two paragraphs contain spoilers, so you may not wish to read them if you have not already seen the film.

I decided to look up the differences between the Extended and Theatrical cuts in case any of the things I wanted to mention were only available in the longer version. I discovered that many of the scenes I enjoyed the most were actually only part of the Extended cut, so I'm glad that I dedicated the extra hour to watching this film. In particular, the scenes throughout the first half of the film where John is bonding with Two Socks is something I definitely would've missed in the Theatrical cut, especially since it plays such an important role in the Sioux name he is eventually granted. Also, moments which show John's acceptance into the tribe, such as the touching scene where his neighbours donate their own belongings so that he has something to offer Kicking Bird seem like travesties to cut. An earlier scene where Kicking Bird and Two Bears discuss signs is probably not necessary to the overall plot, but it ends on such an entertaining line that it became one of my favourites.

And none of that even includes the scenes that show how much John has truly become “Dances with Wolves” instead of “Lieutenant Dunbar”. His complete apathy for his soldier's duties after the buffalo hunt, and his disgust at the sight of the abandoned hunter's camp near sacred ground really help sell how his immersion in the Sioux culture has changed him. He was once a partly selfish soldier so afraid of losing his leg that he'd rather commit suicide by riding straight into the enemy lines, but is transformed into a man who will put the needs of his adoptive community before his own wishes. He is no longer looking for a taste of the American Frontier before it is lost, but is rather someone who is afraid that the culture and legacy of a great group of people will be destroyed by disrespectful men he once called his brothers. Those scenes might not be critical to that understanding, but I think they're definitely worth seeing.

I think I got a little off track there, but I was just astonished by what was actually cut from the film. To anyone who loves Dances with Wolves but has only seen the Theatrical version, I think you are doing yourself and this film a disservice by not watching the Extended cut instead. There was one thing about both cuts of the film that a lot of people seemed to like that I don't actually agree with, and that's the narration. While I liked Costner's performance and his character, I didn't actually like his voice over work at all. The writing was perfectly fine and even occasionally poetic, but I just didn't care for his delivery. Ultimately that is a very minor complaint though, and it didn't really distract me from the film too much.

CosmicRunaway

05-30-17, 12:25 PM

Camo, you might have to wait a bit on my list because I have no idea how I'm going to rank these films haha.

Miss Vicky

05-30-17, 01:12 PM

Guess I might have to check out the extended cut after all.

I'm usually not a fan of narration in film, but Dances With Wolves is one of the few exceptions to that and I think Costner's delivery has a lot to do with why it's an exception. Shame you didn't agree, but oh well.

edarsenal

05-30-17, 11:52 PM

some really great write ups, especially on Dances With Wolves. I'm still searching for the extended cut, myself. I had watched some on a streaming site and saw the explanation on why the fort was abandoned before Dunbar's arrival. And, like stated before, I had to stop when I realized there was no subtitles for Sioux. SOOO aggravating! But I'm sure I'll find it, or rather, it'll find me.

Also, wanted to say how much I enjoyed hearing Nestorio speak about his youth and having the carnivals come. There is something intrinsically magical about that. Not sure why, but there is.
Got to work as a Carnival grunt as a 16 yr old for about 3 weeks. One at my school, the other 2 a few miles away. When they closed up, they invited me to go with them across state for the summer. Always regretted not going.

For myself, just finished Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter. . . and Spring. Rather enjoyed it. Will be writing something in the next day or so.

Nestorio_Miklos

05-31-17, 04:23 AM

Wings of Desire
:):):):):):):)

This film is perhaps the best angelology treatise (I think Pseudo-Dionysius would be happy to see this:D) ever put in a picture (I don't even want to start comparing this to a half-baked and derisory romance City of Angels - that was a crime committed against Wenders's picture). I like Wim Wenders films as they always transcend the story and characters and makes you reflect about the life. Wender's pictures are true mysticism and watching them I really feel now and here. Anyway it is not that easy to put the feelings from his films to appropriate words.

We literary live the lives of two angels Damiel and Cassiel over the West Berlin. We can see how they see, hear how they hear, feel how they feel. We are participating on their disputes, desires. We see their purpose to oversee, protect, comfort, help the people. Only children can see them and opened and sensitive adults can sense them somehow. Just like Peter Falk. Wenders picked the very appropriate place for the story - West Berlin. Where else you could find more desperate people if not in Berlin after WW2 madness and subsequent division of the city. This desperation was nicely displayed by Homer character searching the Plaza and Cafe that is not there any more - searching for this eternal place where he could finally rest in peace so to say. Angels can read our minds and sense our state of souls however they cannot feel emotions, touch things, and their view on the world is only "black and white".

Damiel desires to feel, wants to love, feel pain, simply he wants to be a human being. Notice how he enjoys to see blood and feel pain at the beginning of his human existence. It is through pain we truly feel we are humans, fragile, limited and mortal. Damiel enjoys every trivial thing as he goes thru the city. He enjoys colours, time, feelings, people, he simply enjoys life. Huge message for me. I got much more to say but everybody need to pick it up themselves.

Acting, cinema, arts, message, music score, all perfect. That band reminded me of the band in Bang Bang Bar in Twin Peaks or is it the other way around?:D Grand nom @CosmicRunaway (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=90868) !
:):):):):):):)

Nestorio_Miklos

05-31-17, 12:26 PM

Flesh + Blood

Not a Sunday afternoon family movie, that's for sure:D. There is lots of symbolism involved but lots of historical and fact goofs too (to name a few: survival of lightning strike, construction of this fire truck over night, use of cannons that didn't exist and they were grey on top of it...). We see plenty of caricatures as well. Cardinal is a half wit drunk with a shrieking voice yelling about signs how he pleases to. Scholar is this effeminate weakling with lots of useless ideas. Soldiers are practically animals. The whole movie is like this never ending Saturnalia with seven deadly sins theme park. Yes, the title is right. There is lots of flesh and blood involved.:D

So, I watched this soldiers first allowed to do another Sacco di Roma then prohibited to do so. They are obviously pissed and decide to make a living by robing people dressed like a pilgrim monks ironically asking for alms. Their first job happened to be Arnolfini bunch together with soon to be Steven's wife Agnes. Lots of rapes and parties after. Another Sacco di Roma. Searching party, attack, plague, happy end:)

Whatever this movie wants to be and whatever I said in the 1st paragraph I was still enjoying the feature and was kind of wondering how far Verhoeven will go:D. So there is some kind of magic to it and it keeps me pretty interested and involved throughout. Good nom Blix the Goblin !

Nestorio_Miklos

05-31-17, 12:35 PM

looks like i got 2 noms to go that i shd be able to watch and write up by the end of this week. Then I will be ready for 1940s HOF. I dont see anyone taking care of this thread much. Is Camo ok?

rauldc14

06-01-17, 09:58 AM

I'm going to shoot for watching two tomorrow.

Nestorio_Miklos

06-01-17, 04:35 PM

Forbidden Games

First I was kind of torn between negative and positive watching this. I didn't know whether to start pouring cursing litany out of my mouth or gentle laudes. But then I realized the beauty lies in simplicity. Anything that is simple yet exquisite catches the attention and calls for admiration. The war is horrible of course but at the same time the war is shaping up our characters. There is a clear correlation between the real battlefield and this little community in rural France. I remember my father saying even thou 3 years old he still clearly remembers the blasts of bombs from canons some 30 KM far from the place they lived. It changes you. People are very quick to help but at the same time they are very quick to leave you die. People during war live their lives, work, fall in love, they bury their relatives, they hate, they don't drop the family feuds etc. Everything is the same except there is this threat in the air. It's always there no matter what. So I think the dynamics of relationships are different, emotions and feelings as well. This is, I think, what René Clément meant to say via this short and simple story.

We see this little girl, Paulette, loosing her parents by a snap of the fingers in the bombing raid. Then she just kind of wanders off the crowd of refuges and encounters a boy, Michel from the Dolle's family living nearby. They talk a while and then he takes her to live with his family. Then there are this little and various situations throughout displaying the characters of involved. Simple yet deep conversations and reactions. All this subtlety with which an attentive viewer is picking up the deep meaning of this movie is something personal that is even hard to share or put in words. It was very clear at the end of the film Paulette finally realizes what actually happened to her. It all comes to her going with Sick and Orphans Convoy. This was my second watch but that was long time ago and I could barely recall any scene from first time watching it.

Not much else to say. Great nom Jeff Costello !

Nestorio_Miklos

06-01-17, 05:28 PM

that leaves me with my nom to watch :) and send my list

Nestorio_Miklos

06-01-17, 05:29 PM

I'm going to shoot for watching two tomorrow.
what else you need to watch?

CosmicRunaway

06-01-17, 05:30 PM

that leaves me with my nom to watch :) and send my list
Thanks for unintentionally reminding me that I didn't rank my list yet. :lol:

Camo

06-01-17, 05:31 PM

I'll update the second post tomorrow morning. Great work everybody, a little over 2 months left.

rauldc14

06-01-17, 08:16 PM

what else you need to watch?

Flesh and Blood, Great Dictator and The Hunt.

Then rewatches of Manchester by the Sea and Spring Summer....

edarsenal

06-01-17, 09:11 PM

http://static.dramastyle.com/images/3/1/4054/Spring%2C-Summer%2C-Fall%2C-Winter-and-Spring_15.jpg

Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter and Spring

Seasons change and world, and life, continues to spin. . .

With all the talk about the animal abuse, I was in cringe mode, waiting for it to occur, so that I could continue to watch the film itself.
While I won't add specifically to the atrocities shown, (I saw mine on dailymotion, not sure if that was equal to or less than other renditions) but I rather liked the lesson learned by the child afterward. Which carried on to the remaining situations throughout the film.

I truly did enjoy the film as a whole. The use of the doors opening to signify each season/time in life was a splendid bit of narration.
Also, I did enjoy the emotional interaction of the characters and much of the camera work.
There was some touching and beautiful moments that equally balanced the more harsher situations. Such as the young monk, and the girl who comes to be cured, and what transpires there, and after they leave.

For me, this was quite a good story that was filmed quite well. Not epic, but very good all the same.

This review IS horrifyingly short, and I DO apologize for that; I usually have far more to say. But much like the older monk, there is far more spoken in the most minimal of ways.

Citizen Rules

06-01-17, 09:31 PM

Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter and Spring

With all the talk about the animal abuse, I was in cringe mode, waiting for it to occur, so that I could continue to watch the film itself.
While I won't add specifically to the atrocities shown, (I saw mine on dailymotion, not sure if that was equal to or less than other renditions) ...Miss Vicky posted a link that contained the various scenes of animal abuse in Kim Ki-Duk's movies.

The version I watched included all of the scenes, the scenes at the end of the movie, were the most disturbing.

I suggest everyone who hasn't seen the original version watch the missing scenes in the link below, so that you can decide for yourselves if it is right or wrong to do what the director did.

To see just the scenes from Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter and Spring of the second boy pushing rocks into the mouth of small animals, skip to the 8:33 mark.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CrA4BIGlvqg&app=desktop

edarsenal

06-01-17, 09:37 PM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JTQrxxxdTCE/U4M19S9bL_I/AAAAAAAAIbg/ITW4hiyZNTo/s1600/DancesWithWolves08.jpg

Dances With Wolves Extended Version

When this first came out, I was quite a huge fan and could not count the times I watched it within the following decade.
It soon went to the wayside, for no particular reason and now, WITH the extended version, I am more than just a little happy to re-visit this.
As previously noted, I have not had an easy time, online or at my library finding, firstly, the extended version, and THEN, one with subtitles. Refusing to see it any other way.
My resolution paid off and I found exactly that and I was VERY overjoyed, for it.

So, the answers to WHY Fort Sedgewick was empty is answered, along with a number of situations between characters that I knew nothing of in my earlier, Theatrical viewings. Making for a much fuller movie experience for me.

I've always enjoyed Costner and many of his movies. My #1 Western is his Open Range. He IS a solid story teller who can bring the viewer in, emotionally, with, it seems, barely trying. His heroes are more human than legend; with flaws and failings, who rise to the challenges thrown at them. Dunbar is another of those heroes and his sojourn through it all is an engaging sight to see.

What is also a staple in a Costner film is the excellent people he has working with him. The actors/actresses bring the lifeblood of this film and, for many scenes, the reasons that brings you in and holds you secure for the film. Characters like Wind in His Hair and Kicking Bird and his wife and many of the Sioux were endearing people who, like Dunbar's character, were very much human, not bigger than life. And that truly makes all the difference in the world for a movie like this.
On the opposite end, there are a number of Blue Coats that do an excellent job. Specifically, the Major at the Post that Dunbar receives his orders to go to Fort Sedgewick. There was a sad beauty to this tragic figure and was incredibly played by Maury Chaykin.

I have truly missed this film and with this reunion I have now found MORE to love in the extended version.

F@ckin BRAVO, Miss Vicky for nominating this!!

edarsenal

06-01-17, 09:48 PM

Miss Vicky posted a link that contained the various scenes of animal abuse in Kim Ki-Duk's movies.

The version I watched included all of the scenes, the scenes at the end of the movie, were the most disturbing.

I suggest everyone who hasn't seen the original version watch the missing scenes in the link below, so that you can decide for yourselves if it is right or wrong to do what the director did.

To see just the scenes from Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter and Spring of the second boy pushing rocks into the mouth of small animals, skip to the 8:33 mark.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CrA4BIGlvqg&app=desktop

the version I watched on dailymotion didn't include the rocks being stuffed into the animals - thankfully. Though the tying a string with a rock to it was more than enough for me.

I didn't delve into this simply because it was already spoken of, quite well, previously. So I simply went to the remainder of the film.

As for myself, do I approve? No. Not one bit.
I understand the meaning behind them for the story and for the young monk and the man that he becomes. It doesn't justify it, but, I get it.

Citizen Rules

06-01-17, 10:00 PM

Thanks Ed for posting your thoughts, appreciate your candor.

edarsenal

06-01-17, 10:19 PM

You are, and always, welcome, my friend :)

Camo

06-01-17, 10:22 PM

Finished updating the second post, great stuff :up:. A quarter has finished and a bunch of you are just about to or are well on your way with two months+ left. The only members who haven't made a good start are Neiba and Clazor, i'm confident unless something big has came up they'll finish as Neiba usually leaves it late then finishes in a short period of time, Clazor has done the same and neither has not finished one yet. I'll wait a week and if i've not heard anything i'll message them as that will be the two month deadline.

Continuing to be shocked by the reception Buffalo '66 is getting, so glad you liked it that much Vamp :)

edarsenal

06-01-17, 10:39 PM

I agree about neiba and clazor and I'm looking forward to when I rewatch Buffalo 66. Haven't seen it since it came out in theaters, back in the day.

rauldc14

06-02-17, 12:26 PM

Flesh and Blood

http://www.lisashea.com/lisabase/writing/medieval/movies/fleshandblood2.jpg

I hate to rip a movie too bad in this Hall of Fame format but this was really awful for me. The acting was really bad. It came across as something that I thought maybe was trying to be comical or humorous, although I didn't chuckle once. I also don't think that was the true intention of the film, which made it even worse for me. Jennifer Jason Leigh was really bad and I thought the actor who was Martin was not much further behind. The sets and the costumes weren't bad, but they also weren't anything that really stood out to me to even consider it a highlight. My points for the film are solely based on Martin getting thrown into the well, which was my only real highlight in the film. I can't tell you how many times I looked at the clock on this tedious and tiresome watch. Sorry Blix, not for me. As an aside, I liked the other 2 Verhoeven films that I have seen.

0.5

Camo

06-02-17, 12:53 PM

Jeff Costello

06-02-17, 01:03 PM

Four have finished, four are at least 3/4 way through, two are at least half way through and another four are at least quarter way through. :cool: Then there's Neiba and Clazor :coleman:

Also expecting Cosmics list any day now :|

Is it an imperative to have write-ups for all the listed films? I've watched both Manchester by the Sea and Jagten so I'm technically at half way through as well. I'd just have to review them.

Camo

06-02-17, 01:06 PM

Is it an imperative to have write-ups for all the listed films? I've watched both Manchester and the Sea and Jagten so I'm technically at half way through as well. I'd just have to review them.

Not necessarily. If you don't want to for a few or if you just want to write something short that's fine, as long as it isn't most of the films which it's not in this case. I was only counting what people have reviewed, i know Vamp has finished and Cricket and PG have watched more than they've reviewed too.

BTW, Nesto pointed out a review of his i missed. If anyone notices one of theirs i've left out please let me know, thanks.

rauldc14

06-02-17, 02:45 PM

Manchester by the Sea

http://content.newsinc.com/jpg/1300/31397302/43657436.jpg?t=1473944280

First I will apologize if this all seems a little incohesive but I wanted to give my full thoughts on Manchester by the Sea and this was the best I could do with that. So here are my thoughts.

What struck me on my third watch was just how the story unfolds. We see Lee as a handyman, as a man who is broken and has pent up rage. We don't see why until later. For a film that plays at the heartstrings of its viewers, it's a bold beginning. Then he gets the call and we begin to figure out the pieces to the puzzle. Some of the music at the beginning is pretty poetic too. It helps to make us feel at ease with a very tense situation, if that makes any sense.

Manchester doesn't hold anything back. It's real life situations often feel super dramatic but these are things that can and often do take place in people's lives unfortunately. Hospitals aren't a fun place to be and the film shows the brutal reality of that. The flashback scene with Lee in the elevator shows us just how bad these experiences can be.

The cast is something that I really think is a strongpoint to the film. Obviously with the writing and screenplay being a major force it wasn't necessarily imperative to have completely stellar performances for the film to work, but it's strong performances are what in my opinion is able to take the film to the next level.

The main core of what makes the film so great is Casey Afflecks performance. He completely turns into his character, a trait not often seen in film. Every time he is brought into a flashback scenes, he transforms his character to have the perfect emotion of that particular timeframe. This may be the best film ever in terms of flashback scenes (Signs is another that comes to mind :) ).

Michelle Williams performance is also stellar in this film in my opinion, perhaps so much that I would have preferred her to win the Oscar for her very brief screen time. But she packs a punch with each and every scene she is in. As a couple the two once had everything someone would want in life and it is completely heartbreaking to see their world end up shattering. She played her role perfectly. The scene where she asks Lee to get some lunch is perhaps one of the better acted scenes that I have ever seen.

Lucas Hedges comes across as a very sterotypical late teen who is at a crossroads with his life. I love the humor that he brings, giving the film a little bit of lightness in a very heavy film. I compared the two in a previous review, but I think Hedges is very on par with the performance of Shailene Woodley in The Descendants. The two characters are comparable because of their age and what they have been through.

In previous watches I've always brought up how I enjoy Kara Hayward in general. She doesn't necessarily do anything spectacular in the film but she certainly has potential to be a future star. Kyle Chandler is real good in the flashback roles, and Gretchen Mol as Elise was very good in the few scenes that she had.

It's great to see the chemistry between Hedges and Afflecks characters. In the flashbacks we see that the two had a pretty big bond when Hedges was little and we can see that naturally before the tragic event the two had grown apart from each other. Lee being shell shocked as to being the guardian of Patrick comes off as real genuine. With a situation like this I would guess that perhaps a decision like this may have been made in the same timeframe when Patrick was little and they were fishing on the boat. The "I'm just a back up" scene was truly great acting which helped to symbolize just what feelings Lee had about the situation. Which leads into perhaps the best yet most devastating flashback scene of the entire film, "The Furnace scene", which absolutely tore me apart. It showed me the fragility of life and the reason to never take any moments of life for granted. Perhaps one of the saddest scenes in film history for me. Again, Affleck and Williams emotions were just completely on point and made the scene even that much more impactful. It made me think about how situations like this happen everyday unfortunately to all sorts of people.

Back to Hedges and Affleck, we see the two struggling with how to proceed with life. Both are affected completely tragic circumstances (for Affleck, two circumstances), but they both know deep down they have to lean on each other. I love how they banter back and forth and give each other crap. Lots of underrated dialogue like Affleck telling him to wear gloves with actual fingers on it and a real winter coat. Or Hedges telling him he can't obey his orders until he unlocks the door. Or when the two are talking about Patrick's girlfriends in the car. Funny when Patrick says they don't just play computer games. Another good one: Patrick "What happened to your hand?" Lee "I cut it". Patrick "Oh, for a minute there I didn't know what happened". It's great writing.

Speaking of the writing and the dialogue, the backbone of the films success for me still is the result of Lonergan's impeccable work. The screenplay and the weaving of the story and flashbacks is put into a perfect sequence which tugs at the heartstrings of its viewers. The direction and the attention to detail that Lonergan gives us is truly remarkable. He has a lot of beautiful scenery shots of the Manchester area and neighborhood as well, giving it a very homely feel to it.

I like how the films ending gives us a positive outlook on Patrick and Lee for the future. For a film that is rather bleak, the light at the end of the tunnel was the right way for the film to end. I'd like to think that the two grew even closer as time went on, and that the two were able to somewhat move on with each other's lives. Obviously Lee is forever haunted by the events that have transpired in his life, but his relationship with Patrick is something that can help him carry on.

Obviously the film has had a profound effect on me. I know its heavy substance is not something that would be for everyone, but as far as storytelling and the realistic preview of life tragedies, this one is perfection in my book.

5+

Camo

06-02-17, 02:53 PM

Great review Raul.

The only thing i'm not as big on as you is Michelle Williams, she was good but it's Casey that completely makes the apology scene for me and the rest of her scenes were just okay for me personally. Agreed on the rest.

ScarletLion

06-02-17, 03:46 PM

Great review Raul. I agree about Michelle Williams too. She was sublime. To be that good and have that little screen time takes some doing.

edarsenal

06-02-17, 06:40 PM

I'll be reading your review AFTER I see Manchester, rauldc14 ; the first two paragraphs DEFINITELY held my interest. Should be a d@mn good read.

Camo

06-02-17, 06:49 PM

I'll be reading your review AFTER I see Manchester, rauldc14 ; the first two paragraphs DEFINITELY held my interest. Should be a d@mn good read.

It's definitely one of my favourites so far. The only one off the top of my head i'd have above it was Cosmic's Wings of Desire one because it was so informative :laugh:

edarsenal

06-02-17, 06:57 PM

It's definitely one of my favourites so far. The only one off the top of my head i'd have above it was Cosmic's Wings of Desire one because it was so informative :laugh:
I keep wanting to glance through it - it's almost like a "play by play" breakdown.
I always enjoy Cosmic's write ups, especially when it's about her nom FOR the information she supplies in them.
There's a few of yours I need to read after seeing the movies as well, Camo

Camo

06-02-17, 08:39 PM

[QUOTE=edarsenal;1711848
There's a few of yours I need to read after seeing the movies as well, Camo[/QUOTE]

If we are being honest here, put mine dead last i don't write for *****. Didn't say can't because i probably can write better than i do: hope i'm readable at least.

CosmicRunaway

06-02-17, 08:42 PM

Also expecting Cosmics list any day now :|
I haven't forgotten. :shifty:

I always enjoy Cosmic's write ups, especially when it's about her nom FOR the information she supplies in them.
I'm glad that some people actually like it when I go that route with my write-ups. 👍

I'm always a little worried that what I write comes across as very inconsistent, because I might focus on the cinematography for one film, the characters for another, have one review that's just pure opinion, and then I'll have one that's perhaps overly analytical. It really depends on how I feel about the film and what I find easiest to write about at the time.

Camo

06-02-17, 08:49 PM

I think following on from Citizens best performance thing in the 10th i did the best character thing in the 11th and i'd like to keep something going in the 13th. I have the 'how everything looked' gimmick; or i'm just keeping record of everything and only stats nerds will really find my end post with how everything looked at all times interesting.

Is there anything else i could realistically do to hook the rest of you idiots in?

Camo

06-02-17, 09:09 PM

Controversial:

Miss Vicky is the only reason i'm reading this hilarious ******** right now,

lol

CosmicRunaway

06-02-17, 09:10 PM

I think seeing how the ranking for each film changes as more people get their votes in is pretty interesting, so you have at least one fan of that idea. Or are you looking for something else to add to the reveal that's closer to the best performances and best character awards that would be voted on? I'm not sure what other category would garner as much interest as those...perhaps best soundtrack or editing? Favourite write-up, or whichever film reviewed the best outside the HoF?

I can't really think of any good suggestions because I'm using all my mental capacity to rank my list before I forget again have to go do something else. It's taking so long because I thoroughly enjoyed the vast majority of films nominated this round.

Camo

06-02-17, 09:12 PM

I think seeing how the ranking for each film changes as more people got their votes in is pretty interesting, so you have at least one fan of that idea. Or are you looking for something else to add to the reveal that's closer to the best performances and best character awards that would be voted on? I'm not sure what other category would garner as much interest as those...perhaps best soundtrack or editing? Favourite write-up, or whichever film reviewed the best outside the HoF?

I can't really think of any good suggestions because I'm using all my mental capacity to rank my list before I forget again have to go do something else. It's taking so long because I thoroughly enjoyed the vast majority of films nominated this round.

I don't think anyone will read your post. And please make sure you know i wasn't talking about myself, abd uf u was i probably deserved it.

CosmicRunaway

06-02-17, 09:19 PM

And please make sure you know i wasn't talking about myself, abd uf u was i probably deserved it.
I'm confused now and think I might have misunderstood your earlier post or something.

edarsenal

06-02-17, 09:46 PM

If we are being honest here, put mine dead last i don't write for *****. Didn't say can't because i probably can write better than i do: hope i'm readable at least.
For honesty's sake, what I look forward to in your write ups is your knowledge and your insight. I also enjoy when something catches your eye or you find amusing and share it.
That kind of inner perspective is always enjoyable to read AND, at times, thought provoking.

No bullsh!t, I'm dead serious when I say this

Oh, my one and only gripe is that many of them I can't read UNTIL I see the movie and by then, it's way past commenting on or joining in on discussing something with you when you write it.

Also no bullsh!t ;)

CosmicRunaway

06-03-17, 05:38 AM

Oh, my one and only gripe is that many of them I can't read UNTIL I see the movie and by then, it's way past commenting on or joining in on discussing something with you when you write it.
If you have something you'd like to add, I say go for it anyway. I don't think I've done it recently, but I have chimed in on weeks-old HoF conversations before haha. Even if the original participants don't have anything new they want to reply with, other people who previously missed the conversation might have seen the film recently as well.

Nestorio_Miklos

06-03-17, 06:34 AM

Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring
http://i.imgur.com/XQRM3LS.png
~ beautiful beautiful film ~

Nestorio_Miklos

06-03-17, 06:36 AM

Camo, I will be sending my list very shortly. I already have pretty much an idea how to rank all noms

I was truly enjoying watching all the noms.

edarsenal

06-03-17, 04:30 PM

If you have something you'd like to add, I say go for it anyway. I don't think I've done it recently, but I have chimed in on weeks-old HoF conversations before haha. Even if the original participants don't have anything new they want to reply with, other people who previously missed the conversation might have seen the film recently as well.
That is a great idea, a lot of times I'll simply make my remarks part of my review.
I may try that as well. :)

Citizen Rules

06-03-17, 05:15 PM

I've sort of missed out on the last 2 weeks of reviews and convos as my internet was out on the last 2 weekends and I've been super busy....But even though I'm done and have sent in my list, I do plan on participating an catching up on reading the reviews and commenting.

Citizen Rules

06-03-17, 05:30 PM

oh crap...thanks Cosmic for the heads up:)

Blix the Goblin

06-05-17, 03:43 PM

Got off work early, just about to start Manchester By The Sea

Camo

06-06-17, 12:26 AM

Well according to my drunken nonsense (sorry about that, going to delete it all) at the top of the page i've only got to add one review on this page.

Nesto sent me his list, thanks alot you've been an awesome addition to the HOF's :up:

Hope you continue to take part in them.

Camo

06-06-17, 01:10 AM

Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring
http://i.imgur.com/XQRM3LS.png
~ beautiful beautiful film ~

I'd love to read your post about Spring, Summer. PM it to me if you want.

Nestorio_Miklos

06-06-17, 05:13 PM

Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring

We observe the life of two saints (please note we don't know the names of the two Buddhist monks as it is utterly irrelevant because the Buddhist liberation or salvation lies on to free oneself from endless suffering and existence), an old monk and spiritual leader and a boy monk his apprentice. I can easily call them saints because however horrible actions the young monk has committed he was able to return to the right path. He repents, he accepts his punishment, he matures and he returns to his vocation.

We see the spring season where boy monk ties little rock to fish, frog and snake and observes laughing how they struggle. Thus one of the Buddhist precepts – abstain from harming living beings – was broken. Old monk quietly observes and doesn't interfere as to teach the boy the self awareness and self discipline. Then ties a big rock to the boy's body and send him to free the animals giving him a life important lesson. Other than that they live a quietly in prayer and meditation.

Summer comes and the boy is now a teenager. A young girl is brought to the monastery to heal. Lust awakens in young monk and another precept is broken, namely sexual misconduct. Please note how one action intertwine with another. After he makes love to the girl he no longer respects the invisible walls (symbolism of morals and discipline and freedom at the same time, he may choose, he is not forced). He doesn't use the door but goes straight through the „wall“ to her. It all starts in tiny details and grows to jealousy (jealousy is a fear someone takes what is in your possession, another basic Buddhist concept is broken). It all ends up with murder. Old monk discovers them and tells the girl she has to leave. He is not angry, he is not making scenes, only thing he said to his apprentice was „lust leads to desire for possession, and possession leads to murder". Young monk then runs away to follow the girl and steals Buddha statue and rooster that was with them. As if taking his desires and also all hi learnt from his master, the whole religion (also another precept broken – stealing).

And fall is here and many years passed. Old monk accidentally reads in a newspaper that his apprentice is wanted for murder. Apparently the girl ran off with another man and young monk couldn't face it and murders her. And there he goes coming back to the sacred valley to see his master. And not only to see him, he also wants to heal his tormented soul. But the punishment from master is not enough as master respects the law and young monk needs to go to jail. It was amazing how two detectives, first all noisy and with little respect, changed after witnessing the punishment even helping out carving the characters into the wood. I like to allude here they were all carving their characters to make it better. They all fall asleep tired (mainly the young monk) and peacefully go to serve the justice. No handcuffs are needed. Then old monk, knowing his life is at its end performs a death ritual and dies quietly and unnoticed, just like his all life. Please note that the young monk was trying to perform the same ritual however it would be to easy for him. He needed to face the truth and fulfill his purpose as a monk.

And winter comes and paroled monk, around 40 of age, he returns to the monastery, to his home and sets on the path to self discipline and sainthood. Eventually a woman comes and brings her little boy for an apprentice. The woman then leaves but falls into the frozen lake through the hole and dies. Now the new master finds her and sees her face. It is not important who she is. He then takes the statue of Buddha and dragging a heavy stone climbs the mountain to set the Buddha reflecting on what he has done to animals when he was a child and on lesson learnt. This is for me the strongest moment of the film.

And spring is here again and all comes back with the same events as if to remind us that in order to liberate ourselves from the existence we need to go through cycles of sufferings and lives as Buddhism teaches. I believe there is the same path or pattern to achievement of sainthood throughout all the major religions. It is not about what we done but about how one is willing always to return back to the right path, way or however you may call it.

I like the way the film was directed and acted purposely campy only to emphasize the many of significant symbolism through the film and make the story more abstract to be more accessible as the lesson of life and Buddhist parable for everyone. Also Ki-duk-Kim casts 3 different faces from the apprentice (even himself) only to focus on the different states of young monk's soul at each level of his life.

Life is wonderful with all that we live and we wouldn't know the beauty if we don't experience the ugliness. Only then we truly appreciate the beauty. This film is not purely Buddhist as anyone can watch it and pick up the message. This film can be effective to everybody as it is an universal film. Definitely the masterpiece for me. Of course I respect different points of view. Thank you.

Blix the Goblin

06-07-17, 07:28 PM

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/midvalley9/Manchester-Movie.jpg

Manchester by the Sea

This was a very well-made and enjoyably over-the-top drama about grief and the suppression of one's emotions. Casey Affleck was excellent, and the numerous flashbacks were done in a way that kept me absorbed. The real star though though is the dialogue, and I loved the back-and-forth between Lee and Patrick. The highlights for me were amusing slice of life moments like Lee trying to remember where he parked his car.

8/10

rauldc14

06-07-17, 07:30 PM

Glad you liked it Blix!

rauldc14

06-07-17, 08:38 PM

The Great Dictator

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2011/05/24/ap071025011546_wide-1481e9f02dce18f8dc6404186e14704b2ca97e8a-s900-c85.jpg

My seventh Chaplin movie and while it probably wouldn't crack my top 3, I have a lot of appreciation for the film. It's great to see that Chaplins comedy could be transferred from silent films to his talking films. He has such an imagination for being a comedic genius. Like others, not every joke hits but I enjoyed the missile scene and I also enjoyed the pudding scene and him coughing up the coins. I will tend to agree with others that the film did seem a bit long, I often find myself enjoying shorter comedies of his. It was a very gutsy movie for it's time and it's interesting that this movie was made before Hitler became the real Hitler that we all know and hate today. I have a lot of appreciation for the significance of this film, but yet it won't be an all time favorite either.

3.5+

rauldc14

06-08-17, 10:36 PM

I'll rewatch Spring Summer Fall Winter yadda yadda next.

I still need an iPad friendly link for The Hunt though if anyone can hook me up.

Pussy Galore

06-09-17, 01:05 AM

A little update from me (there will be spoilers in the reviews)

The Quiet Earth: I had this film on my watchlist for a while so I was glad that it was nominated. It rarely happens, but the film actually was a lot like I anticipated it to be. A long part of the film is: a man who finds himself in the world alone, goes a little crazy after a while, etc. Then he meets someone and we see the defaults of humanity. Even if it was like I predicted I really enjoyed it, the world building (if we can call it that) was very good, I mostly liked the characters, but I have to admit that toward the end when they start to not get along so well together it seemed over the top for me. Not necessarily in the acting, but more so in the writing, the animosity that the black guy has toward the australian guy seemed a little out of no where. Still, I really enjoyed the film, it was a well made, entertaining genre film.

Maria Braun: I remember watching this 3,4 years ago and really hating it. But I was 17 years old, I rewatched it with fresh eyes and though I didn't love it, I still found it very interesting. The actress did a fantastic performance as Maria this woman who doesn't seem to really know who she is even though she thinks she knows. She has this weird conception toward her husband, she loves him profoundly (at least she seems to), but at the same time she doesn't mind sleeping around. Sure at the beggining you could say that she did it because she needed to for money, but when she had an affair with the french guy who offered her a job she didn't need to have an affair with him for money, she wanted to. Weirdly I liked this aspect of the film because its realistic, people aren't stones who always think and act the same way, we constantly search and reinvent ourselves.

2 points in the film made me a little uneasy to me

#1 The murder was kind of weird, it just happened without really any explanation. Is the beer bottle that Maria smashes on the guy's head the cause of his death? If not, why did Maria and Hermann kill him?

#2 The ending, why did Fassbinder made this ending out of no where? What does it mean? I don't really know, it's an open question.

Camo

06-09-17, 01:50 AM

Sure at the beggining you could say that she did it because she needed to for money, but when she had an affair with the french guy who offered her a job she didn't need to have an affair with him for money, she wanted to.

I don't think she needed to but i definitely think it was beneficial for her to exploit his infatuation with her to gain more influence over him. Whether she genuinely enjoyed it is down to the viewers own interpretation but i think her main motivation was pretty clearly furthering her career; it was part of her whole manipulating men storyline. She says something to Hermann in prison when she tells him about it that it is to "keep the upper hand" or something like that.

Pussy Galore

06-09-17, 02:36 AM

I don't think she needed to but i definitely think it was beneficial for her to exploit his infatuation with her to gain more influence over him. Whether she genuinely enjoyed it is down to the viewers own interpretation but i think her main motivation was pretty clearly furthering her career; it was part of her whole manipulating men storyline. She says something to Hermann in prison when she tells him about it that it is to "keep the upper hand" or something like that.

That is absolutely true, I think the film isn't clearly one way or another, but what made me interpret the film the way I did are 2 things

#1 She says to the french guy ''it's not you who's having an affair with me, but the opposite'' or something like that. I interpret that in a way that she feels entitled to be sexually free whilst loving her husband at the same time

#2 A discussion she has with her friend, her friend tells her that she becomes fat and won't even be able to find a man to have an affair. In their discussion it seems normal, accepted among them that having an affair okay.

Camo

06-09-17, 02:46 AM

That is absolutely true, I think the film isn't clearly one way or another, but what made me interpret the film the way I did are 2 things

#1 She says to the french guy ''it's not you who's having an affair with me, but the opposite'' or something like that. I interpret that in a way that she feels entitled to be sexually free whilst loving her husband at the same time

#2 A discussion she has with her friend, her friend tells her that she becomes fat and won't even be able to find a man to have an affair. In their discussion it seems normal, accepted among them that having an affair okay.

Seriously don't remember either of those parts so i can't really respond here. Even though it's only been a few months i've already forgotten quite a bit about the film.

The way i interpreted it at the time was that the affair wouldn't have happened if it didn't come with the benefits to her career that it did, but once it began she did begin to derive some personal pleasure from it. Couldn't really give you my reasoning behind that unless i watched it again though and i don't really talk about it in my review.

Citizen Rules

06-09-17, 02:54 AM

Maria Braun:

2 points in the film made me a little uneasy to me

#1 The murder was kind of weird, it just happened without really any explanation. Is the beer bottle that Maria smashes on the guy's head the cause of his death? If not, why did Maria and Hermann kill him?

#2 The ending, why did Fassbinder made this ending out of no where? What does it mean? I don't really know, it's an open question.

#1 I took it that when Maria's long lost husband reappears and surprises her with her American army boyfriend, she then pretends the American was attacking her, and so she hits him with the beer bottle to make it look like she was fighting him off. His death was an accident. Hermann didn't have anything to do with it at all. That's how I interrupted that scene, it was reinforcing the idea that Maria is cold heartened and an opportunist. The fact that the American army guy died shows the consequences of Maria's lack of humanity.

#2 The more I think about it, the ending with the gas from the stove blowing up was the weak part in the film. It felt like a tacked on ending by the writer who didn't know how to end the story so used a 'Deus ex Machina', only in reverse. I have a better ending, for the movie maybe I'll post it. (I still liked the movie, just not the way the script had it end.)

I'll check back tomorrow for replies.

Pussy Galore

06-09-17, 03:41 AM

#1 I took it that when Maria's long lost husband reappears and surprises her with her American army boyfriend, she then pretends the American was attacking her, and so she hits him with the beer bottle to make it look like she was fighting him off. His death was an accident. Hermann didn't have anything to do with it at all. That's how I interrupted that scene, it was reinforcing the idea that Maria is cold heartened and an opportunist. The fact that the American army guy died shows the consequences of Maria's lack of humanity.

#2 The more I think about it, the ending with the gas from the stove blowing up was the weak part in the film. It felt like a tacked on ending by the writer who didn't know how to end the story so used a 'Deus ex Machina', only in reverse. I have a better ending, for the movie maybe I'll post it. (I still liked the movie, just not the way the script had it end.)

I'll check back tomorrow for replies.

I completely agree with what you say about the ending

As for the death scene, I didn't see it that way while watching the film, but it makes complete sense.

Camo

06-09-17, 03:48 AM

I remember reading that Fassbinder made sure there'd be no happy endings in his movies so i think it had more to do with that than any difficulty with ending the film. It also did a good job of subverting expectations for me at least since so many similar films would end with the character quietly contemplating the state their life is in now; leaving it open ended to what the future holds. I much prefer the ending we had than that which is where it was heading otherwise. Leaving it open ended would allow for the possibility of future happiness and this crushed any chance of that happening.

mark f

06-09-17, 04:54 AM

The ending is the best part of the movie. It generates plenty of suspense while visually and thematically recalling the explosion at the beginning.

CosmicRunaway

06-09-17, 06:29 AM

The following contains spoilers for The Marriage of Maria Braun.
She says to the french guy ''it's not you who's having an affair with me, but the opposite'' or something like that. I interpret that in a way that she feels entitled to be sexually free whilst loving her husband at the same time
There is a feminist interpretation of the film that credits Maria's independence and initiative to her political and sexual liberation after the war, and how she discards feminine ideals and adopts masculine traits in order to be successful. Looking at the situation from that perspective, Maria's insistence that she's the one having an affair with him is her way of demonstrating that she is in charge, and that the typical male/female roles have been flipped.

The more I think about it, the ending with the gas from the stove blowing up was the weak part in the film. It felt like a tacked on ending by the writer who didn't know how to end the story so used a 'Deus ex Machina', only in reverse.
I disagree. As I briefly mentioned in my write-up, Maria herself can be seen as a symbol of the Wirtschaftswunder, including the critique that many had at the time that Germany's economic success came at the cost of their humanity. The tragic ending can thus be seen as a warning that the Wirtschaftswunder could actually lead to the death of the German soul if the German people did not re-evaluate their priorities and reconnect with the emotions that were suppressed after the war.

While this is just an interpretation, Fassbinder agreed with the theorists who claimed that the war had emotionally stunted the German people. Fassbinder started his career at the same time he was a major spokesperson for a West German protest group (this was at the height of Berlin's student demonstrations and the birth of the Baader-Meinhof group*). His generation (the one that came after those who produced the Wirtschaftswunder), were adamantly against their parents' refusal to come to terms with Germany's past and their apolitical nature. Many of his films have political overtones, with "keeping German guilt alive" being a major theme. He wanted to inspire his peers and the next generation to become politically active, in order to prevent history from repeating itself.

*-if you're interested in learning more about them, the film that's been next on my list for my German Film Rundown thread deals with this group...if I ever get to rewatching it.

I have a better ending, for the movie maybe I'll post it. (I still liked the movie, just not the way the script had it end.)
I rather liking the ending we got and it's ambiguity over whether or not the explosion was intentional. Is your ideal ending closer to the original ending Fassbinder had written? Since I'm lazy I'm just going to quote my write-up:
However, the original ending that Fassbinder envisioned is pretty clear-cut. After Maria realizes that she was never actually in control of her own destiny due to Hermann's contract with Oswald, she drives herself and Hermann off a cliff, with the sound of an explosion ending the film.

cricket

06-09-17, 07:48 AM

There is a feminist interpretation of the film that credits Maria's independence and initiative to her political and sexual liberation after the war, and how she discards feminine ideals and adopts masculine traits in order to be successful. Looking at the situation from that perspective, Maria's insistence that she's the one having an affair with him is her way of demonstrating that she is in charge, and that the typical male/female roles have been flipped.

That's exactly how I took it, a total power play.

rauldc14

06-09-17, 12:44 PM

Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring

http://www.tasteofcinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/2.c10c2ef2.jpg

I disliked it just as much the second time around which was to be expected. I didn't like the animal torture scenes at all and they were actually quite upsetting this time around for whatever reason. I will say that the film is shot beautifully. That's it's strong point. The performances and the central characters do pretty much nothing for me though. It's a story that tries to send a message but somewhere for me is this big cultural barrier that I can't get past.

1.5

Citizen Rules

06-09-17, 02:09 PM

I think you guys assumed I meant the ending to Maria Braun should be changed to a happy one, :nope: I meant the opposite.

I would have ended the film by skipping the explosion. The end scene would start just after Maria lights her cigarette, but instead of an explosion, a knock would come at the front door. Maria answers the door and an older black woman is standing there.

Maria has a look of slight annoyance on her face as she and her newly reunited husband had plans for the evening.

The black woman speaks and is American. She ask Maria if she knew an Army Sergent named Bill Byrd after the war.

Marie shows little emotion and calmly answers, 'yes, she knew him once...long ago.'

The woman reaches into her handbag, Maria assumes it's to find an old photo of Bill. Instead, the woman pulls out a small pistol and shoots Marie in the chest. Marie falls backwards as the camera pulls back and we see Marie dead in the doorway.

If that had been the original ending, and I then I said: The ending should be that Maria blows herself up while lighting a cigarette because she forgot to turn off the gas...you guys would say I was nuts;)

My ending shows the wages of Maria's 'sins' more clearly than the way the movie ends and brings a resolution to the death of Bill Byrd.

Camo

06-09-17, 02:52 PM

If that was the ending i would have enjoyed it but i honestly do prefer the one we had only because your ending takes away the surprise; the moment i saw the black woman i would have guessed Bill and you even have her asking about him.

Also this doesn't speak to whether that's a better ending or not but i read a few things earlier that explains why that isn't a good fit for the movie. It's mostly due to the de-humanizing elements that Cosmic mentioned; Bill's portrayal was very deliberate in that his purpose was to be a forgotten victim and nothing more, the thing i read put it better i'll post it when i find it. Anyway it made sense and i think that clashes with Bill getting any sort of closure.

Anyway, good discussion gang.

Camo

06-09-17, 03:25 PM

That's me just now added Nesto's list. It looks nothing like i'd imagine. There's three clear leaders all within a couple of points of each other with 50+ and the closest to those is one on 39. They aren't the three i would have expected though, one of the three i would have expected is in joint 9th actually. All but one film has at least 20 points. As i've said i'll post how the list looked after every new entry at the end so you'll know what i'm talking about.

Citizen Rules

06-09-17, 04:07 PM

Camo

06-09-17, 04:09 PM

That's interesting, I liked reading the stats it makes it fun. How many total list are in now?

Four: mine, yours, MV's and Nesto's. Cosmic has finished too so i'm just waiting on hers.

Also my PM's are back on if anyone wants to send me theirs.

mark f

06-09-17, 04:22 PM

There's an odd story about another black man, German Günther Kaufmann, who had a small part in The Marriage of Maria Braun as a soldier on board the train where Maria meets the factory owner. He was involved in a murder case where he confessed to keep his wife out of prison. You can read about it here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnther_Kaufmann).

CosmicRunaway

06-09-17, 05:04 PM

Four: mine, yours, MV's and Nesto's. Cosmic has finished too so i'm just waiting on hers.
I sent my list almost a week ago, actually. You responded to the message too. If you no longer have it, let me know and I can resend it.

Camo

06-09-17, 05:09 PM

I sent my list almost a week ago, actually. You responded to the message too. If you no longer have it, let me know and I can resend it.

haha. Oh yeah. I didn't add it right away and i must've forgot you sent it. It's fine i have it, adding it now.

Camo

06-09-17, 05:26 PM

Added Cosmics list and it has pretty drastically changed things. The top two are on 66 and 65 points then the next two are on 56 and 55 the next six all are in the 40's and the bottom six all have at least 20 but less than 40.

After i've gotten half of the lists i'll stop giving these updates so the end is more of a surprise, this has shown that one list is enough to heavily change things and if all goes well we are expecting 11 more.

Talking about that i'm messaging Clazor and Neiba now, there's two months left now as the deadline is August 9th and they are way behind.

Camo

06-09-17, 05:43 PM

Messaged them. Clazor has been around so i expect a response from him in the next few days, Neiba hasn't posted in a month though. I do remember the same thing happened in the 11th though: Neiba hadn't posted in ages then i messaged him and not long after he appeared and watched the noms in a short period. Hope they finish as everyone else seems to be on track and it would be awesome to finish a 16 member HOF without dropouts.

Technically Titu dropped out but i made sure that was right away and we replaced him with Blix.

Nestorio_Miklos

06-09-17, 05:46 PM

Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring - animal torture??? - please guys with all respect who, even noticed that - please Europeans back me up. Thank you!

Miss Vicky

06-09-17, 05:52 PM

Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring - animal torture??? - please guys with all respect who, even noticed that - please Europeans back me up. Thank you!

I'm pretty sure everybody in this HOF noticed it. It's kind of hard not to.

Camo

06-09-17, 05:57 PM

Spring, Summer is outstanding i'm with you. Glad it's doing much better in the overall standings than i expected :cool:

Citizen Rules

06-09-17, 05:59 PM

Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring - animal torture??? - please guys with all respect who, even noticed that - please Europeans back me up. Thank you!
Nestor did you look at the link Miss Vicky posted and that I reposted about a week ago? You might have seen the edited version of the movie with the most offensive animal torture scenes cut out.

I'm not trying to change your mind or anything like that, but you should take a look at that link so you can know why we feel about it, the way we do.

Nestorio_Miklos

06-09-17, 06:00 PM

I'm pretty sure everybody in this HOF noticed it. It's kind of hard not to.
i respect Vicky however I'm just trying to turn a viewer to mind to essential with all respect due, of course:D .. guys I'm truly opened .. you could noticed that ..

Camo

06-09-17, 06:07 PM

Nestor did you look at the link Miss Vicky posted and that I reposted about a week ago? You might have seen the edited version of the movie with the most offensive animal torture scenes cut out.

I'm not trying to change your mind or anything like that, but you should take a look at that link so you can know why we feel about it, the way we do.

I think most people watched the edited version before that was posted. I'm not saying it shouldn't have been posted because it happened and it's a valuable piece of information but i find it difficult to imagine that not affecting opinions, that's fine. I mean Raul was suddenly deeply affected by it when he hadn't even thought about it before.

I watched the edited version every time. I saw the string tying but not the rocks in the mouths and thought they had just tied a string around the animal then later showed fake dead animals or already dead animals.

I'm sure Nesto watched the same and feel bad for the reactions his nom has gotten. That is part and parcel with the HOF's though. Either way i still love the film and i'm sorry if you think i'm a monster because of it.

Miss Vicky

06-09-17, 06:12 PM

I mean Raul was suddenly deeply affected by it when he hadn't even thought about it before.

True, but this was a rewatch for him and he hated the movie the first time when the cruelty hadn't really affected him so it didn't really change his opinion of it.

CosmicRunaway

06-09-17, 06:14 PM

...am I the only person who watched the unedited version?

Camo

06-09-17, 06:17 PM

True, but this was a rewatch for him and he hated the movie the first time when the cruelty hadn't really affected him so it didn't really change his opinion of it.

I recognize that, i was just using that to demonstrate that the knowledge of the non-edited scenes did affect someone and it is possible it affected someone on a deeper level so much that they didn't like the film when they may have otherwise.

I've already said there's no problem with that being posted tho as it is valuable information about the film, no different from the tidbits Mark posts from time to time. Mostly i'm just personally curious how it would have resonated with people without this knowledge as i can't say definitively whether it would have altered my opinion or not as i didn't have a clue when i watched it.

Miss Vicky

06-09-17, 06:22 PM

...am I the only person who watched the unedited version?

I watched the edited version, but after Thursday Next's comments I did a little research and found that YouTube video (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CrA4BIGlvqg&app=desktop) before I saw the film. So I was already aware of the full extent of it before actually seeing the movie. But having already seen all of the scenes of cruelty only made me hate the film more than I would've hated it without that knowledge. The film's placement on my ballot would've been the same either way.

Camo

06-09-17, 06:23 PM

...am I the only person who watched the unedited version?

I'm curious about this actually. I said most people watched the edited one and i have no clue if that's true.

Camo

06-09-17, 06:25 PM

I watched the edited version, but after Thursday Next's comments I did a little research and found that YouTube video (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CrA4BIGlvqg&app=desktop) before I saw the film. So I was already aware of the full extent of it before actually seeing the movie. But having already seen all of the scenes of cruelty only made me hate the film more than I would've hated it without that knowledge. The film's placement on my ballot would've been the same either way.

Edit: Nevermind i read your comment wrong.

Camo

06-09-17, 06:30 PM

Oh wow. I went to send you a Post Comment when you were deleting your post and things got weird haha. The box that holds the post comment changed to the logo of the site and lingered for a few seconds after i hit send before disappearing.

I've definitely been here too long when i've been able to find out what happens when you send a post comment to a post in the process of being deleted haha.

Miss Vicky

06-09-17, 06:33 PM

Nestorio_Miklos

06-09-17, 06:34 PM

CosmicRunaway

06-09-17, 06:36 PM

Camo

06-09-17, 06:36 PM

I am truly sorry about causing an "uproar" with my nom however please trust me that I didn't mean to. Please believe me I respect your opinions however I am pretty sure that there is someone to back me up that I actually never considered the "animal torture" scenes to be disturbing in any way more than symbolic and fitting to the film. Please, it would never even come to my mind to nominate this film if i know this. And believe me that in my worse dream I would never think that this movie would upset anyone.

Jesus christ dude. I seriously hope you don't actually feel bad, noone here is blaming you for nominating this, their problem is absolutely with the filmmaker not you. And i think it's fine me speaking for everyone there.

No worries, i love it and a few others have came to appreciate it. It's also probably got the most discussion of any nom so :up:

Citizen Rules

06-09-17, 06:37 PM

...am I the only person who watched the unedited version?I watched the unedited version too.

I've always hated animal torture when it's done for real in movies. When I was young I shut off the remake of The Lord of the Flies after they speared and killed a small lizard. I didn't finally watch that movie until many years later.

Miss Vicky

06-09-17, 06:39 PM

I am truly sorry about causing an "uproar" with my nom however please trust me that I didn't mean to. Please believe me I respect your opinions however I am pretty sure that there is someone to back me up that I actually never considered the "animal torture" scenes to be disturbing in any way more than symbolic and fitting to the film. Please, it would never even come to my mind to nominate this film if i know this. And believe me that in my worse dream I would never think that this movie would upset anyone.

Don't worry about it. :)

You can nominate any film you want. There aren't any restrictions in terms of content in these HOFs, so anyone joining does so at the risk of having to watch something potentially upsetting.

There was a big blow up about a similar issue in a HOF not long ago where someone tried to get the rules changed because they didn't want to watch a particular nominated movie. That was not pretty. But I think (hope?) it made it clear what people are agreeing to when they choose to participate.

Camo

06-09-17, 06:42 PM

"Two scenes of animal abuse is fine, but 3 is just going too far!", I don't think that watching either the edited or uncensored version of this film would actually make a difference on the viewer's opinion. Either the abuse is going to bother them, or it won't.

Yeah, don't attempt to speak for me here, thanks. This doesn't take into account the differences in severity at all, there's no difference here from saying that a person fine with watching a video of someone being punched would have no problem watching a video of someone being beheaded.

I don't know if i'm missing some other point you are making because you don't usually say things like this (it's actually more like something i would say) if you are then i apologize but yeah this isn't true at all.

Nestorio_Miklos

06-09-17, 06:43 PM

CosmicRunaway

06-09-17, 06:44 PM

Citizen Rules

06-09-17, 06:45 PM

I am truly sorry about causing an "uproar" with my nom however please trust me that I didn't mean to. Please believe me I respect your opinions however I am pretty sure that there is someone to back me up that I actually never considered the "animal torture" scenes to be disturbing in any way more than symbolic and fitting to the film. Please, it would never even come to my mind to nominate this film if i know this. And believe me that in my worse dream I would never think that this movie would upset anyone. I'm impressed Nesto, that you've been such a good sport about this. Yeah, it's not easy when someone hates your nom in an Hof, but don't feel bad as almost every Hof has some movie that some people hate. That's just the nature of individualism. I've hated plenty of the noms in other Hofs:eek:

Oh and I was planning on watching your nom before this Hof even started, so no worries. You're a good person and a good member:) so hang in there!

Nestorio_Miklos

06-09-17, 06:46 PM

Don't worry about it. :)

You can nominate any film you want. There aren't any restrictions in terms of content in these HOFs, so anyone joining does so at the risk of having to watch something potentially upsetting.

There was a big blow up about a similar issue in a HOF not long ago where someone tried to get the rules changed because they didn't want to watch a particular nominated movie. That was not pretty. But I think (hope?) it made it clear what people are agreeing to when they choose to participate.
thank you very much Vicky! really

Camo

06-09-17, 06:49 PM

It's interesting to see where people draw their lines in terms of subject matter.

There was a film I considered nominating, I think for the 12th HoF, but thought the nudity at the start (nude beach, including a number of children), and excessive violence might put some people off too much. Now I'm kind of curious to know what sort of reaction it might get.

I think that would have affected my opinion. I watched Pixote a few months back which features a fair amount of child nudity and i think i could have giving it another .5 without that.

Was it Nowhere In Africa?

Miss Vicky

06-09-17, 06:50 PM

While I thought the inclusion of more animal torture at the end of the film was unnecessarily exploitative in nature, I actually don't think the abuse in those scenes is any worse than the ones in the first Spring segment, because those were absolutely horrific as well, if not more so.

Unless some people have a strange limit like "Two scenes of animal abuse is fine, but 3 is just going too far!", I don't think that watching either the edited or uncensored version of this film would actually make a difference on the viewer's opinion. Either the abuse is going to bother them, or it won't.

Personally, I found it incredibly repulsive, but I still liked the film well enough as a whole.

It's not so much the number of incidents as it was the difference in what happened to them. I found the scenes with the rocks in the mouths much more upsetting because it struck me as more cruel to wedge rocks into animals' mouths than to tether them to rocks. This is especially true of the frog. The tethered frog was still able to move and keep its head above water, while the one with the rock in its mouth was upside down and unable to breathe.

It also doesn't help matters that I used to have pet frogs.

Jeff Costello

06-09-17, 06:50 PM

Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring will be my next watch for this HoF, probly in a week or so. I'm not particularly versed in Asian cinema, so it should be an interesting watch.

MovieMeditation

06-09-17, 06:53 PM

Camo

06-09-17, 06:53 PM

well, it was a deeply symbolic and whoever of you never in your childhood didn't tie a rope with a tin to a cat's tail in their childhood or another similar thing (except girls) I just don't believe you :) sorry

I can wholeheartedly say i didn't do this. Is this a regular thing? I think i'm more accepting of animal cruelty in films than most but when i was very young the only time i ever fought with one of my close friends was when he kicked a cat. And we were like 6 years old. I've had a well documented fear of spiders my whole life and my mum said i saw one when i was 3 and freaked out, it was pretty big and my dad killed it which made me cry hysterically coz i kind of understood that it wasn't harming me it was just at the other side of the room minding its own business.

MovieMeditation

06-09-17, 06:55 PM

Camo

06-09-17, 06:58 PM

It's not so much the number of incidents as it was the difference in what happened to them. I found the scenes with the rocks in the mouths much more upsetting because it struck me as more cruel to wedge rocks into animals' mouths than to tether them to rocks. This is especially true of the frog. The tethered frog was still able to move and keep its head above water, while the one with the rock in its mouth was upside down and unable to breathe.

It also doesn't help matters that I used to have pet frogs.

This is exactly what i was saying. I completely understand that the string thing bothers people alot too and it's definitely a flaw in me as a human being that that didn't really bother me, but the rocks thing is a whole different degree of cruelty and absolutely makes the edited version much worse. I don't see why someone couldn't see a problem with the edited one and yet feel awful about the unedited one, that's precisely why it was edited.

CosmicRunaway

06-09-17, 06:59 PM

This doesn't take into account the differences in severity at all, there's no difference here from saying that a person fine with watching a video of someone being punched would have no problem watching a video of someone being beheaded.
That's not what I was trying to say at all.

My point was that the severity of both the first Spring segment and the uncensored second Spring segment was the same. They both feature real animals being tortured and killed. There is actually more of this in the first Spring segment than in the second, because the child had to go back and see the consequences of his actions, which does not occur in the second Spring.

I was suggesting that a viewer's opinion of the film wouldn't change that much whether they watched the original or the edited version of the film, since there is no real difference between the abuse seen in the two.

I don't know if i'm missing some other point you are making because you don't usually say things like this (it's actually more like something i would say) if you are then i apologize but yeah this isn't true at all.
Did what I clarified above change what you thought I meant? Maybe I'm explaining it wrong? :confusedwhite:

Nestorio_Miklos

06-09-17, 07:00 PM

I can wholeheartedly say i didn't do this. Is this a regular thing? I think i'm more accepting of animal cruelty in films than most but when i was very young the only time i ever fought with one of my close friends was when he kicked a cat. And we were like 6 years old. I've had a well documented fear of spiders my whole life and my mum said i saw one when i was 3 and freaked out, it was pretty big and my dad killed it which made me cry hysterically coz i kind of understood that it wasn't harming me it was just at the other side of the room minding its own business.
of course i truly respect that ... hmm . well .. then again, I respect that.

Citizen Rules

06-09-17, 07:03 PM

You know the director could have had the same effect with the frog and the stone, without showing the rock being placed in the frogs mouth, he could have cut to a close up of the boy's face instead, then our imaginations would fill in the blanks... The Frog (and other animals) didn't have to be hurt to have that scene, that was the director's choice.

I got more Buddhist wisdom from watching the old Kung Fu TV shows, BTW.

Camo

06-09-17, 07:04 PM

Did what I clarified above change what you thought I meant? Maybe I'm explaining it wrong? :confusedwhite:

I still haven't seen the unedited version so i don't know the exact differences. The first Spring version has him tying strings round the animals then coming back later to find they were dead. Without the knowledge of the Unedited version you automatically assume that the dead animals were fake which is true in me and Nesto's case. By the time we know that those animals were killed we already know about the unedited versions and what actually happened.

CosmicRunaway

06-09-17, 07:07 PM

Was it Nowhere In Africa?
No, Der Baader Meinhof Komplex. I've been planning to rewatch and write about it in my German thread since my last post in it. I swear I'll get to it eventually.

It's not so much the number of incidents as it was the difference in what happened to them.
I thought both forms of torture were equally gruesome. I actually found the first Spring to be a little worse because we actually see the bloodied corpse of the snake.

So my whole theory about the two Spring segments is already proven to be invalid if people actually did see a major difference in the two.

Camo

06-09-17, 07:08 PM

of course i truly respect that ... hmm . well .. then again, I respect that.

I think some very young kids are dumb/curious/whatever and they do things to animals without being able to think about what they are doing, as long as they grow out of that early on that's not that unusual. But there should be absolutely no reason to doubt what i'm saying there, i don't think a majority of kids have tortured animals in their life whether at a young age at all.

Jeff Costello

06-09-17, 07:11 PM

Nestorio_Miklos

06-09-17, 07:11 PM

Camo

06-09-17, 07:13 PM

Also I'll review my own nomination, Jeux Interdits after I rewatch it once again. Judging by the written reviews, it had received kind of a mixed reception. Still I'm glad there were members who connected with the film and managed to appreciate it.

Every film has received mixed receptions i'd say. I think every film has had at least a lukewarm response and most have had at least one negative one and there's still more to finish.

Looking forward to your review.

CosmicRunaway

06-09-17, 07:16 PM

Without the knowledge of the Unedited version you automatically assume that the dead animals were fake which is true in me and Nesto's case.
When watching the film I didn't assume the dead animals at the start were fake or that they had used animatronics. Though before even entering this HoF I knew the director had a history of animal abuse (a friend of mine really liked both this film and The Isle) so perhaps if I didn't know that, I wouldn't have automatically assumed the worst.

Nestorio_Miklos

06-09-17, 07:22 PM

I think some very young kids are dumb/curious/whatever and they do things to animals without being able to think about what they are doing, as long as they grow out of that early on that's not that unusual. But there should be absolutely no reason to doubt what i'm saying there, i don't think a majority of kids have tortured animals in their life whether at a young age at all.
truly i dont know the statistics to say how many boys/girls ever experienced such a thing in a farm or a village or in a town and even thou myself an owner of a dog I was not the least upset. But seriously i might be outdated and I really would like to stay at this site and share my stuff.

CosmicRunaway

06-09-17, 07:30 PM

You know what this discussion is making me think of? The Adventures of Milo and Otis.

As a small child, I was caught up in the movie magic, and obviously wasn't aware of the real dangers that faced those animals during filming. When I saw a cat thrown off a waterfall I gasped in horror, but when I saw him eventually make it back to shore, I was relieved because I assumed the cat was fine. Little me didn't realize there were likely dozens of cats playing this one role. I would never be able to watch that film today, but back then, I rented it from the video store countless times.

Camo

06-09-17, 07:33 PM

When watching the film I didn't assume the dead animals at the start were fake or that they had used animatronics. Though before even entering this HoF I knew the director had a history of animal abuse (a friend of mine really liked both this film and The Isle) so perhaps if I didn't know that, I wouldn't have automatically assumed the worst.

Yeah, i think that's it then. You have to remember that most of the films i've watched are from Hollywood or the UK who both have pretty strict animal cruelty codes, so a 21st Century film and not a film from a time when these things were more lax is always going to get the assumption from me that something against those codes is fake, subconsciously or not i'm going to always think that unless it's a super low budget student film or something which Spring, Summer obviously isn't. Foreign films are a new venture for me for the most part and while concentrating on a film i very rarely think about that countries film industries own codes.

Miss Vicky

06-09-17, 07:36 PM

Camo

06-09-17, 07:47 PM

Yeah I liked that film in my naive childhood too, but it makes me sick thinking about it now.

I had never heard of that film, child or adult until about a year ago. Someone posted something on another forum which is full of people a decade older than me: REMEMBER THIS FILM, YEP IT SUCKED THE INNOCENCE RIGHT OUT OF US

I think that title was deliberately trying to sound horrifying, but yeah i was amazed that there was a film like this that wasn't introduced to me and my siblings as kids. I think it must have appeared in some blind spot between me and my parents generations.

cricket

06-09-17, 08:06 PM

Of course I'm a huge animal lover but animal abuse doesn't affect my enjoyment of movies.

rauldc14

06-09-17, 08:58 PM

Swan

06-09-17, 09:15 PM

Of course I'm a huge animal lover but animal abuse doesn't affect my enjoyment of movies.

Same, cricket.

rauldc14

06-09-17, 09:16 PM

I see a Swan!

Swan

06-09-17, 09:17 PM

Raul!

rauldc14

06-09-17, 09:23 PM

The Hunt is on Hulu and nobody told me?!?! Silly people.

Camo

06-09-17, 10:07 PM

Of course I'm a huge animal lover but animal abuse doesn't affect my enjoyment of movies.

?

I don't really care but i'm fine with not responding to this again,

Should i take part here guys?

Camo

06-09-17, 10:10 PM

Nestorio I still think your movie will do pretty well overall here. It just wasn't for me. But I wanted to give it another shot to be fair for the HOF. I have rewatches every single HOF movie I have seen previously, which has included things like Spring Summer and Amour which I haven't been fond of.

I think NeIsto nominated a film that was much better than any of yours.

I also think you guys are being ridiculously comfortable.

rauldc14

06-09-17, 10:15 PM

Are you drinking again?

ScarletLion

06-10-17, 07:49 AM

'The Marriage of Maria Braun'

http://i.imgur.com/ijryhOJ.jpg

To start with, I enjoyed Fassbinder's camerawork, and the way he focused on faces, buildings and interaction between characters. This was a strong point. I also liked the overall message of post war 'liberation' of some sorts.

However, 2 big problems I have with this movie are:

1) The dialogue
2) The main characters's actions

On 1)... It's just so basic. So analogous, so stunted and direct. Almost childlike at times. This must have been deliberate. As a consequence, I really struggled throughout the entire movie to become excited or interested with any of the characters and indeed any of the plot. It made it so linear. So morbid.

For 2) I just found myself completely confused at some of the things Maria was doing. She was so aloof and so odd. Walking out of rooms while people were talking to her, ignoring others, saying very odd things to characters etc. I was confused as to whether this was deliberate or whether something had got lost in translation. If it was delibrate, then her personality in the film is bordering on mental illness levels, which I'm not sure was the point of the film at all.

The ending is also very abrupt. Why does her husband know the explosion i about to happen? If he can smell gas he would have warned everybody not to smoke. It just seems completely out of place to me.

Also why did she put cold hand on her wrist if she is not going to follow through with her actions?

Maybe I just missed some crucial bits of information or something, but this is not a movie I enjoyed unfortunately.

CosmicRunaway

06-10-17, 08:09 AM

It's just so basic. So analogous, so stunted and direct.
That is entirely the point.

If it was delibrate, then her personality in the film is bordering on mental illness levels, which I'm not sure was the point of the film at all.
That seems a bit harsh to me. Yes, she was extremely cold and used people for her own professional gain, but that callousness doesn't equate to mental illness.

Why does her husband know the explosion i about to happen? If he can smell gas he would have warned everybody not to smoke. It just seems completely out of place to me.
It was pretty clear to me that he couldn't smell the gas until it was too late. He only notices it after Maria goes back into the kitchen. A few of us recently talked about the ending and its importance, actually. If you wanted to read about it, it was was page 45. I agree that it was abrupt, but I think it complements the message of the film very well.

Also why did she put cold hand on her wrist if she is not going to follow through with her actions?
It was to show her emotional state, and also a foreshadowing device. I think that there is some uncertainly to her actions, as though she hasn't quite realized what it is she subconsciously wants to do.

ScarletLion

06-10-17, 08:16 AM

Fair points. It's probably just me that didn't connect with this film. I still don't get the foreshadowing though.

She nearly committed suicide to show that she dies from a gas explosion 2 minutes later? Really? That just seems totally odd to me.

CosmicRunaway

06-10-17, 08:53 AM

It's foreshadowing that part of her wishes to end her life. The film leaves the circumstances surrounding the explosion ambiguous so that it's not clear to the viewer whether Maria intended for it to happen, if it was a subconscious desire she didn't realize she was acting upon, or whether it was just a crazy accident.

As I've mentioned a few times in the thread, the originally envisioned ending of the film had no ambiguity whatsoever. Maria kills both herself and her husband. I prefer the ending the we actually got.

Miss Vicky

06-10-17, 01:27 PM

I think NeIsto nominated a film that was much better than any of yours.

I also think you guys are being ridiculously comfortable.

Not cool, man.

rauldc14

06-13-17, 09:46 PM

I just finished this HOF with The Hunt today. Unfortunately I won't have time to post thoughts until tomorrow. I have to wonder if Neiba will return to the forum to finish and make this still eligible.

Nestorio_Miklos

06-14-17, 12:51 PM

i am really curious about the ranking list. All good noms. Is there any deadline to this?

Jeff Costello

06-14-17, 01:05 PM

i am really curious about the ranking list. All good noms. Is there any deadline to this?

Middle of August, IIRC.

Citizen Rules

06-14-17, 01:10 PM

We'd be done sooner if everyone turned in their list before the deadline. Come on your stranglers:p get watching:) and we could have the reveal of the winner much sooner.

Jeff Costello

06-14-17, 01:19 PM

Actually, I just checked my calendar and the real deadline is on 02.08.17.

Nestorio_Miklos

06-14-17, 04:28 PM

i've already sent my list, it is just not noted on page 1

rauldc14

06-14-17, 05:47 PM

The Hunt

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9Umv4CyxTdg/maxresdefault.jpg

A very good thought provoking film. I used to think Moviegal was nuts with her Mads Mikklesen obsession, but he really showed his worth in this movie and probably has more talent than I had originally thought. I thought the directing was great, as I was initially nervous about the film because I wasn't a big fan of Vintenbergs Festen. I like how each character has uneasiness to them, yet there's a likeable side to most of them as well. I can often have trouble with some foreign films but the story had a nice flow to it and it was a very easy movie although upsetting to watch due to its content. And that ending is a real thought provoker for sure. IF neiba is able to start and finish this Hall of Fame it would be no doubt a lead contender to take home the Hall of Fame prize. But for now, we all sit and see.

4

rauldc14

06-14-17, 05:56 PM

And that's a wrap for me. There was a lot of average stuff for me, this time around, but still a very fun HOF with a few very good movies in the mix.

I would be willing to run the 14th HOF if there would be any interest for it and I was thinking Mid August would be a good start date.

Jeff Costello

06-14-17, 06:46 PM

Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring

I don't know why, but this film had a very calming effect on me. Similarly to Wings of Desire, it had a very tranquil and relaxing vibe, with very little dialogue and no explanations. Just a sheer visual poetry in motion with loads of visual methapors and symbols. I always like when films have a certain dose of ambiguity to them and don't spell it all out to the viewer, so that was definitely a segment I appreciated with this film. Probably my favourite part of the film was its location. I could just lost myself in those beautiful landscapes. Prior to watching this, I always thought that "On Golden Pond" had the most utopian setting in film, but the nature in this film simply blew me away.

http://www.tasteofcinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/spring1.jpg

Spring and Summer were great in my opinion. They perfectly displayed the innocence of a young monk, but at the same time foreshadowed that a certain evil is lurking inside of his heart. Admitably I didn't like the Fall and Winter as much, as my concentraion kind of began to wonder, because of the film's glacial pace. But nonetheless I thought the ending was very poetic and thought-provoking. As I already mentioned, I'm not that well versed on Asian Cinema, so I'm really glad I saw this film. I only wish I knew more about the Buddhist culture, as I'm sure I missed a lot hidden meanings because of it.

Jeff Costello

06-14-17, 07:15 PM

Citizen Rules

06-14-17, 09:11 PM

...Also I'm curious of what everyone thought about the veiled lady with a baby. I have couple of ideas I'm toying with...

It could be just a random lady, who decided to put away her child to become a monk, hence covering her face in shame. But the thing is that the grown up child looked exactly like a young monk and therefore I can only assume that the child is his. Was the veiled lady some sort of physical and spiritual manifestation of the monk's wife, which he killed? I noticed she prayed in the similar manner as the girl, young monk used to fancy. And when the monk opened the veil on her face after she died, there was a Buddha statue, meaning that the woman wasn't real. Also her face appeared to be largely disfigured through the veil, possibly symbolizing the injuries the monk inflicted her. Anyone else has any ideas or interpretations ?I thought the veiled ladies face was done for an interesting visual effect for the audiences sake, I didn't see any deep meaning in it. I think SSFWS is a movie that's not actually deep but thanks to the beautiful setting on the lake and the Buddhist subject matter, people bring their own meaning to it.

Camo

06-15-17, 02:04 AM

Actually, I just checked my calendar and the real deadline is on 02.08.17.

I added an extra week when Blix joined.

Will add your reviews later.

bye guys, mv or cosmic should take this over. sorry i couldn't finish it

Citizen Rules

06-15-17, 03:18 AM

We'd be done sooner if everyone turned in their list before the deadline. Come on your stranglers:p get watching:) and we could have the reveal of the winner much sooner.Crazy typo:eek: stranglers...ha I meant stragglers

Nestorio_Miklos

06-15-17, 06:13 AM

By the way, I have two questions... Does anyone know by any chance, what were the words on the pieces of paper that young&old monk put on their faces?

Also I'm curious of what everyone thought about the veiled lady with a baby. I have couple of ideas I'm toying with...

It could be just a random lady, who decided to put away her child to become a monk, hence covering her face in shame. But the thing is that the grown up child looked exactly like a young monk and therefore I can only assume that the child is his. Was the veiled lady some sort of physical and spiritual manifestation of the monk's wife, which he killed? I noticed she prayed in the similar manner as the girl, young monk used to fancy. And when the monk opened the veil on her face after she died, there was a Buddha statue, meaning that the woman wasn't real. Also her face appeared to be largely disfigured through the veil, possibly symbolizing the injuries the monk inflicted her. Anyone else has any ideas or interpretations ?
Interesting thought Jeff. My first thought was: she was veiled simply to respect the anonymity of a mother who's basically throwing her baby son away. Even the worst mother throwing her child doesn't want to be seen because she is ashamed. In our hospitals we have these "nests" where mothers can save their newborns rather than throw them away wrapped in plastic and it is strictly anonymous.

Another my thought was the strong symbolism of cycles of suffering and reincarnations, as if the monk was reborn again through the murder and horror only to get yet another chance to free himself from the cycle. Therefore the identity of the mother was irrelevant.

I also think it is a young girl because when he reveals her face you clearly see he is shocked from what he sees.

It is hard for me (for us), coming from Judaeo-christian background to fully comprehend all the symbolism from this movie. Buddhism, just like every religion, has written scripts, but has also its own unwritten tradition that is known only to people living and practicing it. It is hard especially with Buddhism being non-missionary religion, up until lately.

Nestorio_Miklos

06-15-17, 06:16 AM

Crazy typo:eek: stranglers...ha I meant stragglers
yeah, LOL you actually made me think with that for a while :D:D:D

CosmicRunaway

06-15-17, 07:39 AM

Does anyone know by any chance, what were the words on the pieces of paper that young&old monk put on their faces?
It is a seal. 閉 means closed or shut.

Camo

06-15-17, 01:06 PM

Added Rauls List. It's starting to look more like i expected it to. The top two have at least 70 points, the next two are in the 60's, then the next four are in the 50's meaning the top half have at least 50 points. There's still a couple of films in the 20's but they should be out after the next list.

That's six received.

the next most recent camo post that's above this they mean, i missed this post haha

Jeff Costello

06-15-17, 04:39 PM

Another my thought was the strong symbolism of cycles of suffering and reincarnations, as if the monk was reborn again through the murder and horror only to get yet another chance to free himself from the cycle. Therefore the identity of the mother was irrelevant.

I like this thought. The film was certainly big on the circle of life element and even referenced it in its title.

I also think it is a young girl because when he reveals her face you clearly see he is shocked from what he sees.

I noticed that as well. From the look on his face, I definitely got the impression, that the young girl was someone he knew.

It is hard for me (for us), coming from Judaeo-christian background to fully comprehend all the symbolism from this movie. Buddhism, just like every religion, has written scripts, but has also its own unwritten tradition that is known only to people living and practicing it. It is hard especially with Buddhism being non-missionary religion, up until lately.

Yes, I definitely agree. After I finished the film and read about it online, I was astounded with how much Buddhist semantics I've missed. It was certainly interesting to read about meanings that certain animals and objects represent in the said culture.

edarsenal

06-17-17, 10:13 PM

http://static.rogerebert.com/uploads/review/primary_image/reviews/manchester-by-the-sea-2016/hero_Manchester-by-the-Sea-2016.jpg

Manchester by the Sea

Casey Affleck was an utter and complete surprise at the depth and nuance he was able to achieve in this. BRAVO.

Much like many here, this was a hard watch - emotionally. For me, I've been in that defeated, deflated, unable to get back up again, situation. We all go through it, at some point in our lives. And we witness Affleck's character struggle with his, as life goes on, whether he likes it or not.
And that was what really made this movie. Real life. There was no clever, sage-like wisdom or heart-felt discussion where people's emotions and feelings are respected and nurtured. None of that. There was hurt, anger, reluctance to deal with it or anything and the awkward, misguided conversations that happen - in real life. Including the, not so wrapped up ending. Like life, it went on. Not completely resolved, not worked out.
For that I applaud it.

I was also impressed with the way they did flashbacks. We saw him; thinking of them and they'd play out. Well done. Especially the transformation of seeing Lee before the tragedy and the man devastated by it.

One silly observation: did anyone else chuckle any time he broke out into a fist fight?
It was part humor, part cheering for letting loose. All those feelings kept in check; so that they wouldn't burst out and destroy him further.
I totally get it.

A lot of great scenes involving so many people. . . some harsh, some heart breaking, some awkward, others filled with anger and the barbs that come out in such situations. Those mostly centering around Lee and his nephew.

While this was very hard to watch on an emotional level, and it took a few days to recover from it, I truly did enjoy this, and will, most likely, be seeing it again.

EXCELLENT call, rauldc14

Citizen Rules

06-17-17, 10:19 PM

Manchester by the Sea
....did anyone else chuckle any time he broke out into a fist fight?
It was part humor, part cheering for letting loose... I didn't chuckle but I did say to myself, good for him! Great review Ed, and a great movie too.

edarsenal

06-17-17, 10:26 PM

THANKS

yeah, we hold in so much and rarely let loose with what we want to do, or really want to say, in life (talkin ***** online notwithstanding lol); I was feeling the very same thing.

ScarletLion

06-19-17, 10:32 AM

'The Great Dictator'

http://i.imgur.com/xUsF84f.jpg

Quite surprised at this movie and how much I giggled all the way through. I was expecting to find it extremely dated with old fashioned humour, and whilst there were bits that hadn't aged well, overall I think I was just ignorant in thinking that the humour in the early part of last century was different somehow.

Right from the opening credits we see the "Any resemblance of the dictator to the barber is purely coincidental", which sets the tone of the silly humour. There were also segments that reminded me of 1990's and 1980s type comedy films so this film and others like it surely trailblazed that sort of comedy. Then you have the huge part of satire which hopefully wasn't lost on too many people at the time given how it wasn't even the end of the 2nd World War when the movie was released.

The scene with the giant globe was quite poignant too, and held as a type of 'absurdity of war' analogy. I'm glad this film was nominated as I can't imagine I would have searched for it otherwise. Not at the top of my HOF list but nowhere near the bottom.

Sarge

06-21-17, 12:11 PM

The Hunt (2012)

http://sites.psu.edu/kaylaspassion/wp-content/uploads/sites/34515/2015/10/91DBCbrQPCL._SL1500_.jpg

I didn't know anything about this film when it was nominated in this HoF.
I quickly saw that it was highly thought of, without being made aware of any of the plot.
I had glanced something about it being a somewhat difficult watch, but I didn't know in what way.

http://www.magpictures.com/thehunt/images/photos/photo_03.jpg

The film starts with Lucas (Mikkelsen) who is a teacher that has been working with some younger children than he is used to due to his previous job ending due to a school closure.

A situation arises which sets the whole story into motion and with it a whole host of emotions, both for the characters and the viewer.

http://screenpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/The_Hunt_Jagten_5.png

What I liked
This movie made me feel, and that is an effective ability of well made films, and well told stories.
It made me feel a lot of things. I felt anger, sorrow, frustration, empathy, injustice and at times absolute rage.
I was fully invested in the story and the majority of the characters and part of that was down to the topics raised in the film, and also in the quality of the film making.
The film was well written, directed and shot. I loved the seasonal reflection in the cinematography, particularly the autumnal scenes in the forests.
I felt that it was a powerful piece of film making for many reasons.

http://cdn.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Hunt-02.jpg

What I didn't like

It was a tough watch, due to some of the subject matter and whereas it was powerful and intentional, I didn't 'enjoy' it as such.
I also found that some of the characters and their actions were utterly nonsensical and unbelievable.
On more than one occasion I found myself saying "That simply wouldn't happen'.
It was ok to a point but after a while I found myself getting frustrated as the story wouldn't have been affected too much if the characters had performed my believably.
The last scene (intentionally so) was a bit ambiguous.

http://www.bfi.org.uk/sites/bfi.org.uk/files/styles/full/public/image/hunt-the-2012-003-quartet-men-in-swimming-trunks.jpg?itok=YjCjAwhM

Summary

Overall I thought that the film was really well made. It was solid in all areas, but for me it was slightly unbelievable in some places.
With that said, I was physically tense throughout due to the story, the topic and the acting. I was invested and I was taken on a journey. A key aim of any film, should be to make the viewer feel things. In that area this film truly did deliver.

4

Citizen Rules

06-21-17, 12:44 PM

The Hunt (2012)

I also found that some of the characters and their actions were utterly nonsensical and unbelievable.
On more than one occasion I found myself saying "That simply wouldn't happen'

Sarge what didn't you find believable? Can you elaborate?

CosmicRunaway

06-21-17, 01:08 PM

Citizen Rules

06-21-17, 01:15 PM

I thought the townspeople in The Hunt were incredibly realistic, and I completely believed their reactions to the events of the film. I grew up in a small town as well, and the older generation in particular were always very quick to judge, spread rumours, and start treating people differently, even if they'd previously been friendly their entire lives. I think there's just this different mentality that exists in certain small communities, and I thought the film captured that very well. Totally agree with all of that, especially the part about small communities having a different mentality about things. I thought The Hunt was very believable, and a lot of films suffer from lack of believeability.

Jeff Costello

06-21-17, 01:30 PM

The part I did find unrealistic was the fact that Lucas was so quick to forgive all of those people who mistreated him and his family. I remember thinking that the film would end with Lucas and his son moving to another town together and starting a new life, because there would simply be no way for him to co-exist with those people after all the abuse he endured. So seeing him stay and actually trying to reintegrate into their society just seemed improbable to me.

Sarge

06-21-17, 01:56 PM

Sarge what didn't you find believable? Can you elaborate?

Sure

The way the teacher dealt with the situation was laughable. Call in a male friend to ask Klara, direct and leading questions. They saying "Children don't lie" so it must be true.
Then just announcing to all the parents that they suspect abuse, before she has even reported it to the authorities, or carried out an investigation.

When Klara tells her mother that she made it all up, her mother says "No you just forgot about it because it was painful" rather than exploring further.

Her Dad also says "I won't ask her, as kids don't lie".

Lucas doesn't try hard enough initially to convince his friend (or anyone else for that matter) of his innocence, he just seems wounded that they don't believe him. I just think that I would be letting everyone know that I was innocent, especially my best friend.

The shopkeeper openly discriminates against Lucas and the butcher then assaults him, as do two other shopkeepers.

The case was thrown out due to all of the kids describing the same basement despite Lucas not having a basement. Surely then you would realise that Klara made it all up.

It's just all, not how it would actually happen.

Sarge

06-21-17, 01:59 PM

I thought the townspeople in The Hunt were incredibly realistic, and I completely believed their reactions to the events of the film. I grew up in a small town as well, and the older generation in particular were always very quick to judge, spread rumours, and start treating people differently, even if they'd previously been friendly their entire lives. I think there's just this different mentality that exists in certain small communities, and I thought the film captured that very well.

I didn't in totality. I also grew up in a small town and there would always be suspicion if someone had been accused etc but if the 'victim' had stated numerous times, to numerous people that they made it up and the victims stories proved to be false then I know some of them would be reasonable.

The most believable reaction for me, was that of Marcus.

Citizen Rules

06-21-17, 02:17 PM

Spoilers for The HuntSure

The way the teacher dealt with the situation was laughable. Call in a male friend to ask Klara, direct and leading questions. They saying "Children don't lie" so it must be true.
Then just announcing to all the parents that they suspect abuse, before she has even reported it to the authorities, or carried out an investigation.

When Klara tells her mother that she made it all up, her mother says "No you just forgot about it because it was painful" rather than exploring further.

Her Dad also says "I won't ask her, as kids don't lie".

Lucas doesn't try hard enough initially to convince his friend (or anyone else for that matter) of his innocence, he just seems wounded that they don't believe him. I just think that I would be letting everyone know that I was innocent, especially my best friend.

The shopkeeper openly discriminates against Lucas and the butcher then assaults him, as do two other shopkeepers.

The case was thrown out due to all of the kids describing the same basement despite Lucas not having a basement. Surely then you would realise that Klara made it all up.

It's just all, not how it would actually happen.

I remember there was a high profile court case in the 80s or was it the 90s...anyway, it was about a mother and her adult son who ran a child care center and were accused of child abuse and satanic practices. Children swore they did all sorts of horrible stuff, including stuff that supposedly happened in tunnels.

But, it was found in cross examination that the children had been manipulated by examiners by repeating leading questions, until the small children started to believe the questions as really had happened. It was also believed in the past that a child's court testimony was impeachable as they wouldn't lie. The mother and son were cleared of all wrong doing, but they were put through hell and the charges of child molestation ruined them.

So, I believe the film deliberately includes such scenes to show the injustice and fall out of someone falsely accused of child molestation.

Nestorio_Miklos

06-21-17, 02:27 PM

Spoilers for The Hunt

I remember there was a high profile court case in the 80s or was it the 90s...anyway, it was about a mother and her adult son who ran a child care center and were accused of child abuse and satanic practices. Children swore they did all sorts of horrible stuff, including stuff that supposedly happened in tunnels.

But, it was found in cross examination that the children had been manipulated by examiners by repeating leading questions, until the small children started to believe the questions as really had happened. It was also believed in the past that a child's court testimony was impeachable as they wouldn't lie. The mother and son were cleared of all wrong doing, but they were put through hell and the charges of child molestation ruined them.

So, I believe the film deliberately includes such scenes to show the injustice and fall out of someone falsely accused of child molestation.
this is vy interesting what you said about cross examination. I also found it kind of "glued" to the movie only to show the injustice. I mean nobody cared to further question Klara when she said she just made it up

Sarge

06-21-17, 02:34 PM

Spoilers for The Hunt

I remember there was a high profile court case in the 80s or was it the 90s...anyway, it was about a mother and her adult son who ran a child care center and were accused of child abuse and satanic practices. Children swore they did all sorts of horrible stuff, including stuff that supposedly happened in tunnels.

But, it was found in cross examination that the children had been manipulated by examiners by repeating leading questions, until the small children started to believe the questions as really had happened. It was also believed in the past that a child's court testimony was impeachable as they wouldn't lie. The mother and son were cleared of all wrong doing, but they were put through hell and the charges of child molestation ruined them.

So, I believe the film deliberately includes such scenes to show the injustice and fall out of someone falsely accused of child molestation.

Maybe they did and there will always be extreme cases, but everything that the Nursery teacher did was wrong and not how she would be trained to deal with such issues. The police and authorities would certainly have been more professional in their approach even if the teacher had been an imbecile and would almost certainly have cast possible doubt on Klara's story without too much effort.

Jeff Costello

06-21-17, 03:13 PM

Jagten spoilers

Sarge
The way the teacher dealt with the situation was laughable. Call in a male friend to ask Klara, direct and leading questions. They saying "Children don't lie" so it must be true.
Then just announcing to all the parents that they suspect abuse, before she has even reported it to the authorities, or carried out an investigation.

There was already a big discussion on Grethe's actions, which I unfortunately missed. I'm glad you mentioned this, because I definitely agree with you here. People can try to justify her actions as "honest mistakes", but in reality her incompetence was so extreme that it made me think, how a person of her position couldn't handle that situation any worse.

- Firstly, she chose someone she knew personally to perform the crucial first interview with Klara.

- She arranged the interview to be performed in an office, from where Klara could hear other children playing outside. Seems like a big distraction for her...

- She clearly tried to influence Klara's answers during the questioning and even planted the idea inside her head that she'll be allowed to play if she gives them the answers they want.

- She plants ideas into Klara's mother head.

Grethe: “Something has occurred that shouldn’t occur between children and adults. I haven’t been able to prevent it. I’m terribly sorry. Klara has recounted sexual details about an adult. I don’t believe a child would lie in that way.”

Agnes: “It sound very confusing. What are you telling me?”

Grethe: “It seems that Klara has been a victim of sexual abuse here. Probably by someone close to you.”

Agnes: “Sexual abuse?”

Grethe: “The things she said… she’ll probably deny everything because she’s embarrassed.”

She starts the conversation with "terribly sorry", suggesting that the case was already confirmed 100%, even though it wasn't. And with the claim that Klara will deny everything, she spreads her illogical belief that children never lie, which ultimately turned out to be fatal when Klara tried to come clean and no one believed her.

- She gives dozens of parents brief informations about the accusation and tells them to watch out for symptoms of abuse. Premature move, when the investigation didn't prove anything. She tells the parents to report back to her if any of the kids are having headaches or nightmares. And when some of the parents reported that, some kids actually had headaches, she presented that as an ultimate evidence of widespread abuse.

- She phoned Marcus's mother without Lucas's knowledge. That resulted in Marcus not being allowed to speak to his father.

- When Lucas tried to talk to her, she flat out refused to hear him out and ran away. Totaly nonsensical move.

- She also pointed out how Lucas was alone with kids on numerous occasions, giving parents ideas on how and where he could have done the crime.

Literally every single one of her actions was a screw-up and she was the direct culprit for Lucas's troubles. I can definitely see why you'd think her doings were unbelievable.

Lucas doesn't try hard enough initially to convince his friend (or anyone else for that matter) of his innocence, he just seems wounded that they don't believe him. I just think that I would be letting everyone know that I was innocent, especially my best friend.

I can somewhat understand his actions here. My guess is he thought that people would be rational enough and quickly come to their senses. Also perhaps he thought that going directly against the word of a little girl, wouldn't do him any favours. But yeah, he should of definitely act more vocal about it.