Breaking Bad [Archive] - Movie Forums

Yoda

06-20-11, 02:43 PM

I'm not sure if there are any others on the list any more. For a long time I had The Wire and Mad Men on there, but I'm all caught up there. Parks and Recreation got to that point awhile ago but I'm caught up there, too. 30 Rock, which I've seen the majority of twice. Most of the others are from way back; Arrested Development, which I've seen three times all the way through.

The Wire was the big one I was saving for a very long time. It was that, Mad Men, and Breaking Bad have been the big ones for about a year now, and BB is the last one left.

Game of Thrones will almost certainly be on there, but I don't much like paying for a premium channel, and I like to know it's worth the trouble first, just in case. Sounds like it is. I also held off because I was thinking of reading the books first, though I've more or less decided not to.

Anyway, after this I'm down to ongoing shows that I have to wait to start, and new ones that look interesting. But I can't think of any others that are established, so obviously going to be great, and have 2-3 years already waiting for me. When I find one (like Justified), I devour it pretty quickly, so this might be the last one for a bit.

Pyro Tramp

06-20-11, 02:46 PM

Oh, i just meant more what do you consider to be the 'must-see' shows?

Yoda

06-20-11, 02:54 PM

Sorry, I'm confused, then. Do you mean the ones I've already seen, as well? Ongoing shows that haven't ended yet? Both?

MovieMan8877445

06-20-11, 02:57 PM

Yoda

06-20-11, 03:07 PM

Watch the pilot. It'll tell you with a great deal of likelihood whether or not you'll like the rest. I can't imagine someone like the show but not the pilot, or vice-versa.

MovieMan8877445

06-20-11, 03:16 PM

Watch the pilot. It'll tell you with a great deal of likelihood whether or not you'll like the rest. I can't imagine someone like the show but not the pilot, or vice-versa.

I've seen random episodes while hanging out with friends that watch it, and I liked what I saw. I just haven't gotten around to watching from the start just yet.

Pyro Tramp

06-20-11, 03:43 PM

Sorry, I'm confused, then. Do you mean the ones I've already seen, as well? Ongoing shows that haven't ended yet? Both?

Yeah, just all of them, generally. What do you consider to be 'must-see shows' - so what is on your list/was on your list and you'd recommend to others, like.

Yoda

06-20-11, 03:54 PM

The ones that come to mind first:

The Wire
The West Wing
Arrested Development
Flight of the Conchords
Firefly
Scrubs
These ones would go first because they're not as "obvious" as others. Any decent list has to include Seinfeld and The Simpsons, but nobody really needs to be told about those or encouraged to watch them much, so I feel like the list is less "useful" with them.

After that tier, I'd put:
30 Rock
Parks and Recreation
The Sopranos
Lost
South Park
I'm also deliberately leaving off shows like Mystery Science Theater 3000 that don't consist of an ongoing story. I'd say Mad Men is just uneven enough sometimes that I wouldn't put it on either list yet. But that could change in a hurry.

I think these are the only shows I'd really feel someone has missed something on. Though I also have to admit that Parks and Recreation is a little out of place, and it's probably on here because I'm particularly high on it right now.

Pyro Tramp

06-20-11, 04:00 PM

I'll be honest, surprised at the last 3, Scrubs is rather mediocre with a few excellent bits that can't raise the rest. I love the other two shows but never thought of them as seminal viewing. Interesting.

You say that about Seinfeld but it never took off over here, at least for me to notice. Only know of it at all from Curb so it's probably getting enough shouts to push me to looking into. Any episodes/seasons you'd recommend starting?

MovieMan8877445

06-20-11, 04:03 PM

I could never get into Seinfeld. Something about it just never really appealed to me.

Yoda

06-20-11, 04:05 PM

I dunno, I don't remember many low points for Scrubs. The thing is, what it lacked it wasn't even trying for. It's not supposed to be incredibly dramatic. It's supposed to be really funny, and fairly sweet. For me it was partially about consistency: both in that I thought tons of episodes were at least good (if not always great), and the rapid-fire pace of the jokes meant it was very difficult to have an entire episode "miss." That, and the consistency of always managing to balance the sweet with the funny. It really did that exceptionally well.

It also helps that the finale was basically perfect.

I'd have to ponder what to recommend in terms of Seinfeld. Like most shows it hits its stride a couple of seasons in and peaks right around the middle. I'd probably recommend everything from 3-6 pretty emphatically. But it feels like "crucial" than the other shows because it's really nothing other than the comedy. That's what I like about it, largely, but it also stops me from loving the show, because it didn't move me at all.

Pyro Tramp

06-20-11, 04:09 PM

The sentimentality that capped every episode of Scrubs killed it for me, no matter how much I enjoyed an episode that often let it down. And JD's character became annoyingly love-sick and righteous far too often. Dr Cox was a near faultless performance but got a little boring eventually. I might check out the finale.

ash_is_the_gal

06-20-11, 04:13 PM

i thought this was a thread for Breaking Bad.

Pyro Tramp

06-20-11, 04:22 PM

Well.......... i've not watched. So tough.

ash_is_the_gal

06-20-11, 04:34 PM

then get the hell out or talk about your ineptitude of not seeing it.

happycyclist

06-20-11, 05:10 PM

I think it has a cult following, but not massive ratings. Like Mad Men. Its cultural impact is magnified by the degree to which its viewers like it, and the degree to which writers and critics and whatnot rave about it.

Mad Men is huge, though. It might have similar viewership, but Mad Men is on a totally different level. It was pretty much billed as the next Big Thing after The Sopranos. Everyone - in my circle of friends (hella cool people) - bangs on about Mad Men. There's a ball-tonne of hype around it. Which is justified; Mad Men is brilliant.

Breaking Bad has hardly any recognition in comparison. See this poor excuse for a thread. Like four people have seen the thing!

It just depresses me. It's totally different to Mad Men, but in terms of writing, cinematography, acting, compelling storylines, etc, it's more than a match for it.

And it's water-cooler television. I'm going to buy a ****ing water-cooler so I can stand over it and natter to myself on Monday morning. And it's good suspense too - like Twin Peaks, not like 'what's in that grate why is there a polar bear here'. It's real suspense, about characters, about their decisions, about the consequences.

In summary: "BITCH!"

happycyclist

06-20-11, 05:11 PM

then get the hell out or talk about your ineptitude of not seeing it.

Miow.

Yoda

06-20-11, 05:13 PM

Mad Men might be relatively huge in that it generally draws 2 million viewers per episode (though before this past season, it drew less), and Breaking Bad draws more like 1.5. But both shows have pretty mediocre ratings numbers in the grand scheme of things.

But critical recognition? I hear critics fawn over both. BB has won six Emmys; Cranston, in particular, has won all three times he's been eligible.

I imagine the perception for shows like this can vary wildly depending on who we generally talk to.

ash_is_the_gal

06-20-11, 05:20 PM

i didn't start loving BB until the middle of the 2nd Season, so i really should try to watch more than 1 Season of Mad Men.

Pyro Tramp

06-20-11, 10:06 PM

I think Mad Men has it's own thread, you should probably post your plans to watch it in there :)

ash_is_the_gal

06-21-11, 08:24 AM

the next time i don't incorporate the current topic into the same sentence, i will be sure to do so! :D

Pyro Tramp

06-21-11, 08:40 AM

Breaking Bad; I'll include the thread title in any posts here, also.

ash_is_the_gal

06-21-11, 08:54 AM

oh jesus. get over it already, man. i only said what i said because there was a slew of posts about various TV shows like this was the Television Tab or something. i kept clicking on the thread hoping to see more discussion about the hawesome climax that was Season 3 and instead i saw lists of TV shows that people still need to see... a-wha?

i know there are more Mofos that have seen BB other than HC and i. they just need to come out of the woodwork.

Pyro Tramp

06-21-11, 09:32 AM

Banter really doesn't work across the internet. Or maybe women in America don't get it either.

MovieMan8877445

06-21-11, 11:17 AM

I've seen BB.

ash_is_the_gal

06-21-11, 12:21 PM

Breaking[Bad/Season 4 trailer. (http://warmingglow.uproxx.com/2011/06/breaking-bad-season-4-trailer)

ash_is_the_gal

06-21-11, 12:22 PM

eh, whatever, i messed that up because i'm on my phone. someone who's a Mod, fix it for me!

MovieMan8877445

06-21-11, 05:29 PM

I really wouldn't count it as a trailer, because most of it is previous footage we've already seen from earlier seasons.

Pyro Tramp

06-22-11, 07:27 PM

Gonna have access to Seasons 1-3 imminently, when Season 4 start again?

ash_is_the_gal

06-22-11, 07:30 PM

July 20-something. 23rd?

ash_is_the_gal

06-22-11, 07:32 PM

actually, according to the trailer, it's July 17th.

Pyro Tramp

06-22-11, 07:34 PM

Plenty of time :)

Yoda

07-02-11, 10:27 PM

Well, I started it. I'm six episodes into season 1, which means I've got just one more to go.

So far: :up:

MovieMan8877445

07-03-11, 12:43 AM

Well, I started it. I'm six episodes into season 1, which means I've got just one more to go.

So far: :up:

You actually might get caught up before the new season after all, Yoda. By the time you get to season 3 you won't be able to stop watching.

Yoda

07-03-11, 01:25 PM

Yeah, we went through all seven episodes and the first episode of season 2 in a single day. I doubt we'll keep watching quite so quickly, but it might not be hard to catch up at all.

I am tempted to deliberately draw it out a little, though, so we've got a few episodes from the new season saved up. Not a fan of watching serialized shows live, when it can be helped.

ash_is_the_gal

07-03-11, 01:31 PM

you don't like watching shows live? why not?

season 1 and 2 are pretty short, so you should be able to finish it up soon. you're going to get hooked once you're well into season 2. ta-rust meeee.

Yoda

07-03-11, 01:38 PM

Well, because then when an episode blows your mind you have to wait another week.

Pretty hooked already. And yeah, I was bummed to see that season 1 was only 7 episodes, unlike the others which are all 13.

MovieMan8877445

07-03-11, 01:39 PM

Austruck

07-04-11, 12:07 AM

Seriously? No Battlestar Galactica?? Wow, how the mighty have fallen.

I'd add on my own list, which strangely consists of a lot of HBO series.

The Sopranos
Deadwood (a personal favorite -- its glorious use of language and rhythm coupled with shotgun-style swearing is a thing to behold)
Carnivale
Rome
The original Monty Python half-hour shows from BBC
Fawlty Towers

But, back to Breaking Bad, which is definitely already on my own list, along with Mad Men. AMC has really shined with its series.

The ones that come to mind first:

The Wire
The West Wing
Arrested Development
Flight of the Conchords
Firefly
Scrubs
These ones would go first because they're not as "obvious" as others. Any decent list has to include Seinfeld and The Simpsons, but nobody really needs to be told about those or encouraged to watch them much, so I feel like the list is less "useful" with them.

After that tier, I'd put:
30 Rock
Parks and Recreation
The Sopranos
Lost
South Park
I'm also deliberately leaving off shows like Mystery Science Theater 3000 that don't consist of an ongoing story. I'd say Mad Men is just uneven enough sometimes that I wouldn't put it on either list yet. But that could change in a hurry.

I think these are the only shows I'd really feel someone has missed something on. Though I also have to admit that Parks and Recreation is a little out of place, and it's probably on here because I'm particularly high on it right now.

Austruck

07-04-11, 12:14 AM

As for waiting a week: I had that problem with Lost for a while since I came into it near the end of season 1. But, although I hated waiting that week, it was fun to have time to regroup, rewatch, talk to others about what was happening, etc.

And since we've always watched Breaking Bad this way, we've always had time to rewatch it and see what we missed. And yeah, John McClane here and I would end up squeeing about it on Facebook every week the second it was over. Because every episode seems to end on a high/strange note.

My husband and I love how they usually start an episode at the "end" and then work their way back for the whole hour to the point where they started. We always have fun trying to guess HOW they will end up back at that point ... and we're rarely right. Which is half the fun.

Boy, now I can't wait the last two weeks till it comes back! Last season was crazy!

MovieMan8877445

07-04-11, 12:16 AM

I just want to know what happens after last season's finale.

happycyclist

07-04-11, 10:01 AM

The first season is nothing compared to 2 & 3, so you're going to **** when you watch them, Yoda.

TWO WEEKS TO GO.

ash_is_the_gal

07-14-11, 11:39 AM

so, Yoda, all caught up and ready for this Sunday?

Yoda

07-14-11, 12:00 PM

voneil7

07-14-11, 12:17 PM

Keep meaning to watch this show, but always forget about it. Actually, I watched the first 2 episodes, missed the 3rd, and haven't watched since. Not that I didn't like it, but I didn't want to risk watching it out of order. Perhaps I'll add it to the instant queue (assuming it's there) and give it a watch soon.

ash_is_the_gal

07-15-11, 06:44 PM

Almost! We're halfway through season 3. Walter just agreed to Gus' offer.

And boy, can I just say that I find Gus as fascinating as any character outside of Walt and Jesse? I want to learn a lot more about that guy. And it seems like I probably will.

I'm still thinking about this show. I know it's very, very good and I know I like it very, very much, but I'm having a little more trouble than usual putting my finger on the reasons for each. Must ponder further. But one thing I know I like (and really respect in a TV show) is that it doesn't draw things out much, and it doesn't "save" its bullets to fire later, like so many other shows. It empties the clip every time and finds new things to reload it with.

Mostly, though, I want to catch up so that I can read all the interviews and articles that have come out this week about it, all of which I know I need to avoid until I'm up to speed.

yeah, i felt the exact same way about Gus. he's really subtle and creepy, huh? it's like you know there is definitely more to this guy than what is seen. you'll get more of a feel for him as you finish season 3, but i do hope we learn more about him in season 4.

i'm looking forward to learning more about Walt, too. i mean, we know very little about the guy apart from what his life has been in present day seasons 1-3, except for a couple flashbacks. he's a seriously complex character, and the writers haven't even began to develop his character in ways they could.

i'm excited. :)

Yoda

07-16-11, 11:45 PM

Just saw the second-to-last episode in season 3.

Holy crap!

ash_is_the_gal

07-16-11, 11:49 PM

go go go go go!

Yoda

07-17-11, 02:44 PM

Finished it last night. We were never in much danger of not making it, I don't think; we slowed down deliberately sometimes, and I wouldn't have minded DVRing the premiere tonight and waiting a day or two.

Man oh man, though. Those last two episodes were fantastic. Season 3 is every bit as good as season 1, in my mind. Maybe better, except in the ways that an "origin" season is always going to be sort of better, and is easier to make better. So I'd say season 1 is a tad better, but season 3 is every bit as good with a much higher degree of difficulty (and almost twice as many episodes), so it's the most impressive so far.

I'll have to go back and check, but I feel like Breaking Bad is doing the same thing The Wire did, where the penultimate episode of each season is where the most important stuff actually happens. I'll have to go look at that a bit closer.

Really loving it, though, and I'm super-bummed that I have to wait a week per episode like everyone else now. I'd been saving this for awhile and it didn't disappoint.

Best line of the series so far, not based on writing, but context and buildup:

"Run."

Other than that, dozens of fantastic lines I'm sure I'll be quoting for awhile. Love the comedy, too; some of it's so subtle. I laugh like an idiot every time Walt tries to say something empathetic to someone else. It's perverse, but kind of subtle and really well handled. This guy's way closer to full-blown psychopath than he is normal human being at this point.

MovieMan8877445

07-18-11, 12:46 AM

I missed it tonight, but hopefully it'll be online by tomorrow so I can watch it.

ash_is_the_gal

07-19-11, 02:23 PM

I was thinking about the character progression last night. I don't think there's been another TV show with such drastic - and realistic - progression, especially from the first season. Both Walt and Jesse were pretty much bumbling idiots when it first started - a far cry from how it is now.

The story in season two where they get stranded in the desert after Jesse leaves the keys in the ignition; I can't really imagine an episode like that now. Not because the show has changed necessarily, but the characters have.

I can't see Jesse bouncing back from what he's done. Walt has; since that episode in the first season he seems to be able to do stuff with little thought or regret.

I'm not articulating this very well, but I just love how much they have both changed. Each season is like a distinct chapter of their lives, whether is it a few months apart or not.

© ashley h.

Yoda

07-19-11, 02:30 PM

Agreed. I'll be back in a tad with thoughts on this episode, specifically, and the big series catchup, and the series as a whole. I have many thoughts! Many!

filmgirlinterrupted

07-19-11, 02:35 PM

Oh man, the Season 4 premiere was unbelievable!

happycyclist

07-19-11, 02:57 PM

Yoda

07-24-11, 10:16 PM

Still gonna try to come back soon with broad thoughts about what's happened so far and what's coming next, but just to get this in before the deadline of tonight's episode:

I think Gale's lab notebook is very intriguing. Obviously, as the camera panned over it in the crime scene, it became clear that it's going to be a plot point. No insight in observing this. But think about what he'd been doing leading up to his death: trying to copy the blue meth formula. The blue meth is the only real link they have to Heisenberg. It's going to be very tempting for them to find those notes and assume that Gale is Heisenberg, or was working for him, or something of the sort. This can have lots of effects, potentially, such as taking the heat off of Walt (if they think Gale was Heisenberg) or taking the heat off of Gus (if they think Gale just worked for Heisenberg). Walt might have caught quite a break, though, with the lab notes and what must be in them at this point.

Here's another way it could change things: it could get Hank recovering a lot quicker. He's generally pretty apathetic so far, but imagine how he might react if his replacements lazily assume that, because of the notes, Gale was Heisenberg. We've established that Hank has tremendous instincts, and he'll know right away that that just doesn't smell right. It could get him plenty fired up. It would also produce a situation where Walt is actively paying for the rehabilitation of the man who's trying to work his way into shape so he can catch him, which is the kind of irony that Breaking Bad loves.

Anyway, very interested to see how that plays out. Clearly something's going to happen, but the fact that Gale was killed while trying to copy Walt's formula could lead to a lot of false conclusions by the DEA.

Austruck

07-25-11, 12:07 AM

Just finished watching second episode of the season here....

Random thoughts: Walter's getting more calculating and fixed in his plan of action, while Jesse continues to show he's the one of the two with anything of his conscience left. I love that about Jesse -- the constant, underlying turmoil and his struggle to do good and be good. While Walter is just the opposite -- shutting down his conscience and trying to practice being bad.

And I'm pretty sure that Hank ordering all those rocks -- I mean, MINERALS -- online means something. He's not just loopy. It has something to do with the meth and his still tracking down Heisenberg in his mind. Just not sure what's going on in Hank's mind but he's the cleverest lawman in the show by far. I'm not enjoying his pushing Marie away, but I figure it's mostly because she's distracting him and making him lose his focus.

Part of me is loving this series as usual, but another big part of me isn't liking just how off the deep end Walt and Jesse are. I mean, there's no turning back now, and this is the same man I was rooting for in season 1 to just beat cancer. Part of me is having real trouble rooting for him anymore. I'm rooting for Skylar, Walt Jr. and Marie/Hank and even Jesse... but Walt? Not so much.

Yoda, I know that's part of what that article you mentioned talks about...

Side note: I loved seeing Jim Beaver in this episode, who acted with Anna Gunn (Skylar) in Deadwood. He plays essentially the same type of character everywhere, but I love it.

ash_is_the_gal

07-25-11, 01:10 AM

this season has been hard to watch so far. i just can't really related to the two main characters anymore. they are both so unreachable to me. i keep assuming something drastic will happen, like something ground-breaking, and i'll be able to feel something other than total confusion for either of them.

especially Jesse.

the Hank and Marie storyline is really intriguing. Hank's storyline has always been great, and i had been looking forward to seeing how it'd develop since the end of season 3. i remember i kept thinking he might put more of the puzzle pieces together about Heisenberg now that he'll have a lot of time on his hands. also, i wonder when he's going to start becoming suspicious about how Marie is paying for his hospital bills...

the preview for the next episode looks interesting and i can't wait until next Sunday, when i'll be snuggled in bed with my boyfriend in England, to watch it. :)

Austruck

07-25-11, 01:24 AM

Ash, when my daughter and I were in London a little over two years ago, we found that they DON'T play our shows when we get them. And a few British friends I have often lament that they have to wait to see things that are new for us here.

Not sure you'll get to watch Breaking Bad while you're in England... but do enjoy the trip! We loved England!

ash_is_the_gal

07-25-11, 01:27 AM

oh, sorry. i meant we'll watch it the following evening. my boyfriend streams it, i think. and that Sunday night we'll be in London at the Somerset film festival for the summer line-up, anyway. priorities. :D

Yoda

07-25-11, 03:27 PM

See, I know you two are far more typical of most viewers than I am, but when I hear that someone can't "relate" to a character any more, I always instinctively think "so what?" I don't mean that in a smartass way--there aren't many wrong ways to watch a TV show--but merely to explain how I approach this show and others. I like having characters I can root for, but I'm completely fine for a show that explores messed up people that I have waning levels of sympathy for, if that's what the show wants to be and can do it in interesting ways.

Jesse definitely passed a crucial point. But the fact that he's distraught over it saves him for me, anyway. Not only in that I can still sympathize with him, but in that it's how his character ought to act given what we've seen so far.

One thing to keep in mind is that, early in the series, Vince Gilligan often said he only envisioned maybe four seasons, and it sounds reasonably likely this'll only end up going five. So they might not be counting on people to "like" the characters much, because they're not going to try to hold your attention for a decade or anything. This is the kind of story that has to end, and probably sooner rather than later.

More very soon.

filmgirlinterrupted

07-25-11, 03:44 PM

Does anyone else get the feeling that Hank is finally going to find out about Walter this season? I've been waiting for this to happen, and Hank is in a vulnerable spot without a badge - perfect time for him to discover the truth...

Austruck

07-25-11, 04:26 PM

Yoda, I get what you mean, but I think what bugs me about not caring about Walt is that I USED TO care about him. He's gone so "gangsta" that he's no longer even fighting for his family anymore. Or at least, not in these first two episodes.

I don't mind if a two-hour movie shows us someone's downward spiral and we end up caring less for the person... but a lengthy, drawn-out TV series with hours upon hours of subjecting us to the person's spiral (which is totally his own fault in this case) has its frustrating moments for me.

However, having said that, I'm so invested in the characters (all the other ones, plus Walt from a curiosity-perspective) that I'm not going anywhere till this thing is over for good. I gotta find out how this all ends!

I guess I just won't be as sad (at this point) if it ends very badly for Walt. He seems so much less redeemable than he was. Jesse, OTOH, seems redeemable. Oh sure, he still drowns his sorrows in addictions, but to me that just shows how much his conscience is still working. He's giving money to single mothers and is the only voice of reason left to Walt, really.

The odd thing right now is that Walt is/was willing to fight to the death for Jesse ... but he seems to have given up on Skylar and Walt Jr. and their daughter. It's like his only family is Jesse now.

Austruck

07-25-11, 04:27 PM

ash_is_the_gal

07-25-11, 04:29 PM

Yoda, i wasn't trying to say that this was a negative against the show, so if it seems like that's what i was saying, i retract the statement. actually I was trying to explain how queer this season has made me feel (so far, anyway). i think i'm still dealing with the aftermath of Season 3 much like Jesse and Walt are, so maybe i am relating to them more than i think. :D

ash_is_the_gal

07-25-11, 04:31 PM

ash_is_the_gal

07-25-11, 04:35 PM

filmgirl ... yeah, I think you might be right. And that'll cause struggles all its own for Hank and perhaps even Marie -- do they tell Skylar (not knowing she already knows)? Do they turn Walt in? Do they talk to Walt at ALL about this? So many great ways that could play out....

I can't help but think Marie is going to find out before Hank does, and then she'll have to keep lieing to him (which started at the end of season 3 with the "counting cards" scheme).

It almost looks like the writers are trying to do some kind of parallel with Hank/Marie but this time with the wife living a double life.

Austruck

07-25-11, 04:42 PM

It's funny you said Walt has gone so gangsta, when in my eyes, i marvel at every lame brain move he makes in the "gangsta" department. I know he's come miles since Season 1,but he's still so, so inept. It's like there's a little spark of human left in there somewhere.

This is very true -- that Walt, although mentally gangsta, just doesn't seem very good at the actual outworkings yet. I mean, him practicing that quick-draw was kinda funny in its own way. And of course, with the gun dealer at the beginning, we could see that he still smells like an amateur to that guy. But, Walt seems to KNOW this about himself (since he kept brushing off the guy's questions about concealing the weapon by insisting casually it was for self-defense ... just KNOWING he didn't look gangsta to the dealer)... and he uses that self-knowledge to his own advantage every so often.

And of course, when he totally WANTS to be gangsta, as toward the end of last night's episode when he was in his car outside Gus's house... he puts on the "Heisenberg" hat... (but he's still driving the Aztek, LOL).

Yoda

07-25-11, 04:45 PM

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting either of you were wrong or bashing the show or anything. It's just interesting to me that so many people approach TV shows that way at all. I can sort of get it, but I'm more one or the other. I expected Walt to go bad (I mean, it's in the title) from the beginning, so perhaps I never really had any hopes that it would be otherwise. I guess if I really loved a character (Hurley!) I could definitely find myself disillusioned if they took a turn for the worst. But I'm totally cool with Breaking Bad not being populated by any real good guys.

Marie finding out before Hank would be very interesting. Mainly because she'd probably assume it would hurt his career (any chance of a comeback in that regard, I mean) terribly if it were found out that someone so close to him was a drug kingpin, and she might feel obligated to keep it from everyone. Amusingly, even Skyler, because she'd have no way of knowing she knows.

Austruck

07-25-11, 04:52 PM

Well, not necessarily NO way of knowing if Skylar knows. After all, she's hounded Skylar a lot about why she kicked out Walt in the first place and Skylar's never given her a straight answer.

She might just put two and two together and figure that was the reason.

ash_is_the_gal

07-25-11, 05:00 PM

I actually only approached this show with a "i must watch this because my boyfriend insists that i do" at least until i started to love it.

i love the way Walt seems to constantly hover between gangsta and smart Chemistry genius guy. for example, he used the "i'm a smart, business like adult professional" act to get the contract with Gus, and he always keeps up this front in all of their dealings.

but then he flies off the handle and does things like his persona Heisenburg - running drug dealers over with his car, getting all up in other meth cooks faces at Home Depot ("stay. out. of my. neighborhood.")

so it's like Walt is smart enough to know when to be whom.

Jesse, on the other hand, knows who he is and is always that guy. BITCH.

so it's like Jesse, with all his ways of escaping, lives more in reality than Walt.

about Walt not having a conscience... remember the bottle episode, The Fly? if that wasn't Walt's conscience, what was it, exactly?

Austruck

07-25-11, 05:34 PM

Don't remember that episode.... refresh?

As for Walt having no conscience ...well, nobody has NO conscience, I suppose. But compared to that first season, yeah, I'd say it's conspicuously absent. And when you now have Jesse telling Walt to ease up and not do stuff, then you know something has drastically changed. We've seen bits and pieces of this along the way (such as Walt talking Jesse through the acid episode in the bathtub), but now it seems to be how Walt operates most of the time.

I guess that's what I'm noticing. That it'll take some serious stuff to bring Walt back from where he is now, if that even happens at this point.

Jesse, I think, could go either way still. But it's always been that way with Jesse. Even when he's with his druggie friends, you can tell he knows there's more to life than this... and they don't.

filmgirlinterrupted

07-25-11, 05:35 PM

about Walt not having a conscience... remember the bottle episode, The Fly? if that wasn't Walt's conscience, what was it, exactly?

During this episode, Walt has a monologue where he mentions that he should have died months ago, and that he was supposed to remembered as a caring family man. Walt even toys with the idea of winning Skylar back, that if he could explain his activities in "one certain way" then maybe she would come back to him. "If only I could catch that damn fly..."

As Jesse climbs the ladder and gets closer to killing the pest, Walter nearly spills the beans about Jane. But instead, he simply says "I'm sorry" although he never explicitly says what for (even though we know he's talking about Jane).

My interpretation of the fly was that it was meant to represent every character, in a way:

Jesse is buzzing around Walt, bothering him and threatening his operation.
Walt and Jesse are buzzing around Gus, giving him grief.
Skylar is buzzing around Walt, asking questions.
Jane's death is a sort of 'contaminant' for Walt and Jesse. One that they both need to be cleansed of...

Just an interpretation...

Yoda

07-25-11, 05:43 PM

My interpretation of the fly was that it represents two things. The first is that as much as Walt is a perfectionist, nothing is ever perfect. There will always be some "contaminant," in the lab or in life. We see other examples of this, like Walt going out of his way to skim the public pool he never uses.

But more than that, it is simply death. Flies symbolize death in older paintings (you'll see them alongside fruit very often, for contrast), so it's probably not for nothing that "The Fly" is an episode where Walt talks about his hypothetical death.

Being married to an Art History major (magna cum laude) does have its benefits.

ash_is_the_gal

07-25-11, 05:52 PM

something about the Fly episode that always struck me was the timing of it - it happens right after Hank's nearly fatal encounter with the cousins. do you think these chronicles hold significance?

Sorry to keep coming into this thread like a pretentious lit professor or something (only to ask more questions without giving much insight), it's only because i'm typing on my phone.

More very soon.

StrongReaction

08-10-11, 07:35 PM

I don’t know about everyone else but I thought this week’s episode was the best of the season so far. The opening scene with Mike waiting in the back of the truck and then gunning down the two attackers was amazing. The conversation between Walt and Hank was pretty intense. Even though Walt gave a good explanation for the initials W.W. being in the notebook it still seemed like Hank is starting to suspect Walt. I'm really interested to see where that goes. Also that video of Gale managed to be both hilarious and sad at the same time. How creepy must it have been for Walt to have to sit there and watch that?

Yoda

08-10-11, 07:44 PM

Still gonna post about the broad strokes of the series soon, but I just wanted to drop in to point out that, yup, just as I guessed, that at first blush everyone's assuming the lab notes mean that Gale is Heisenberg. But I also thought that wouldn't last, and it doesn't look like it will. Hank's instincts have been spot-on (except for his overlooking Walt, of course), and I don't think they've dulled.

Speaking of which, Hank's seeming increasing suspicion of Walt coincides very well with the ways Walt is revealing himself to be more of an alpha male than Hank had ever realized. I've heard some people complain about Hank's blind spot here, but I think it's totally legit, because he's always known Walt as a pushover. And why is he now starting to consider Walt (at least, from what we can tell)? Because Walt's started acting differently. Walt and Hank had that confrontation out by the pool, and now he hears this story about Walt making scads of money gambling. The more he realizes Walt isn't a pushover, the more he's realizing he might be his man. Makes perfect sense.

Austruck

08-11-11, 12:13 AM

Totally agree -- it was all very creepy and sad and funny all at the same time.

And what I loved about Walt's reaction from the point of the karaoke DVD onward was that you could see that Skylar merely thought he was playing his "rehearsed" part very very well, as she had been hoping. His reaction made his gambling story all the more plausible... and he even said the "terribly, terribly" part. :D

I wasn't sure how I felt about this season in the beginning, but it does seem to be going somewhere. Though everyone's still spiraling, it feels like it has a focus (from a writer's perspective).

I'm still very sad about Jesse's continued spiral, though. I so want him to be redeemed somehow.

MovieMan8877445

08-11-11, 01:14 AM

Does anyone think they'll actually kill Jesse off?

StrongReaction

08-11-11, 01:16 AM

"Speaking of which, Hank's seeming increasing suspicion of Walt coincides very well with the ways Walt is revealing himself to be more of an alpha male than Hank had ever realized. I've heard some people complain about Hank's blind spot here, but I think it's totally legit, because he's always known Walt as a pushover. And why is he now starting to consider Walt (at least, from what we can tell)? Because Walt's started acting differently. Walt and Hank had that confrontation out by the pool, and now he hears this story about Walt making scads of money gambling. The more he realizes Walt isn't a pushover, the more he's realizing he might be his man. Makes perfect sense."

Well put. I don’t see why anyone would complain about that. I mean why would Hank suspect his nerdy, school teacher brother-in-law of being a drug kingpin. It would be the last type of person he would suspect. But now that Walt’s true nature is beginning to emerge coupled with all this money seemingly coming out of nowhere, extensive knowledge of chemistry and the fact that he knows Walt knows Jesse it seems like Hank is putting the pieces together.

"I'm still very sad about Jesse's continued spiral, though. I so want him to be redeemed somehow."

I agree I want to see Jesse redeemed too. Though if they were going to kill him off (I don’t think they will though) that would have been a great final episode for him. To have his last scene in the car with Mike and then just have him disappear and never be seen again without anyone knowing what exactly happened would be awesome.

Austruck

08-11-11, 01:20 AM

I thought the same thing -- Jesse in the car with Mike smacked of too many scenes we saw on The Sopranos over the years. (I'm thinking mostly of Adrianna's demise mid-series.)

But Aaron Paul is such a great actor and his character is so pivotal to play off Walt as they both spiral in separate ways that I don't see them killing him off any time soon. I DO see it as possible perhaps in the final season, when they'd be more willing to wrap up character story arcs in a final way, but not this season. The series would suffer from a HUGE hole without Jesse in it for too many episodes.

Austruck

08-11-11, 01:21 AM

Oh, and am I the only one who's now totally stunned by the fact that Bryan Cranston was known for stuff like Malcolm in the Middle before this? Hardly seems like the same guy. His acting and timing and chutzpah are all absolutely, sublimely impeccable.

StrongReaction

08-11-11, 01:28 AM

Yea all I ever knew him as was the father in Macolm in the Middle and as Tim Watley in Seinfeld and a few other minor roles. I always thought he was pretty funny but he is a much, much better actor than I ever gave him credit for.

honeykid

08-12-11, 03:24 PM

Thought this might be news to some of you.

'Breaking Bad' to return for two final seasons?

Breaking Bad could return for two final seasons, reports have suggested.

Earlier this week, reports claimed that negotiations between network AMC and the show's producers had stalled.

The series, which stars Bryan Cranston, was allegedly offered to three other cable networks and Deadline reports that FX expressed some interest.

However, production company Sony Pictures Television and AMC are now said to be confident that the show will remain on the same network.

Talks are thought to be ongoing as the two sides cannot agree on the episode order for a new deal. AMC has allegedly offered a 13-episode fifth season but Sony Pictures Television is asking for a higher number of instalments.

Sources have suggested that between 13 and 20 episodes will eventually be ordered, although they could be spread across two seasons.

Meanwhile, AMC is reportedly asking Sony Pictures Television to help finance the series.

Breaking Bad's creator Vince Gilligan will also have to renegotiate his contract as it expires after the end of the current run. Gilligan has previously indicated that he wants the show to end after the fifth season.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/ustv/s166/breaking-bad/news/a333392/breaking-bad-to-return-for-two-final-seasons.html

Yoda

08-12-11, 03:28 PM

Thanks, hk. I'd been following this but hadn't heard this latest news.

Anyway, sounds about right. Gilligan said early on he thought it might go four seasons; then, as it picked up steam, he started talking like it might go five. Six seems reasonable, though it seems like some serious stuff is inevitably going to go down this year, in such a way that I kind of assumed five was most likely. But I won't complain about a bit more; I trust the writers to make it work. I definitely want an end date set sometime soon, though.

ash_is_the_gal

08-12-11, 04:36 PM

So it's definitely not going to Fox, yeah?

ash_is_the_gal

08-12-11, 04:42 PM

filmgirlinterrupted

08-12-11, 05:00 PM

about Hank's blindspot to Walt being Heisenburg - anyone else notice Hank's behavior/dismissal towards Marie being a klepto sort of making a statement? i think Hank has a hard time seeing the dysfunction of those who are closest to him. he hasn't really 'dealt' with the whole Marie-making-up-stories-and-stealing-a-spoon incident. i think Hank does subconsciously know who Heisenburg is, but can't bring himself to deal with it.

Hank is a simple-minded guy, but he's certainly not stupid. My theory is that subconsciously, he's not ruling out the possibility of Walter being Heisenberg.

When it comes to Marie, I think that Hank has become numb to her shenanigans. She's obviously been behaving this way for some time, even before the spoon incident. I think it was Season 2 (?) when she was shoplifiting in that shoe store. And when Hank got the phone call about Marie being in jail because of the spoon incident, he didn't seem all too surprised. I think it's safe to assume that Marie's behavior is nothing new to Hank.

They're certainly an interesting couple. Hank is bound to reality, and isn't the type of person who seeks a means of escape. On the other hand, Marie is obviously making concentrated efforts to keep herself from accepting that her life has turned out "ordinary." She needs an element of danger/excitement in her life in order to avoid feeling like she's a hamster in a wheel.

By the way, does anybody have a theory on Marie's obsession with purple??? I wonder if it holds any significance to the plot...?

Yoda

08-12-11, 06:10 PM

Yeah, purple's her color. I don't think it's significant to the plot, just a character flourish. I specifically read that most of the characters deliberately have a color associated with them, though sometimes it changes.

filmgirlinterrupted

08-12-11, 06:12 PM

ash_is_the_gal

08-12-11, 06:29 PM

is Jesse's color yellow? he was sporting an adorable yellow hoodie/beanie combo last season.

filmgirlinterrupted

08-15-11, 04:46 PM

AMC Renews "Breaking Bad" for Fifth and Final Season

http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/The-cast-of-Breaking-Bad-season-4.jpg

via ScreenRant

"AMC announced the renewal of its acclaimed series Breaking Bad (http://screenrant.com/tag/breaking-bad/) this weekend, adding that the 5th season would be its last. Throughout its run, the show has garnered critical and viewer acclaim (http://screenrant.com/62nd-primetime-emmy-awards-recap-winners-kofi-75904/), and has been instrumental in AMC’s rise in the original programming scene.

Breaking Bad‘s fifth season will consist of 16 episodes – three more than we saw in seasons 2 – 4 (season 1 was only 7 episodes) . The extended order should give the writers some extra room to wrap up the series. The final episodes will begin airing in mid-2012.

Creator Vince Gilligan had this to say on ending the successful series:
It’s a funny irony — I’d hate to know the date of my own last day on earth, but I’m delighted to know what Walter White’s will be (episodically speaking). This is a great gift to me and to my wonderful writers. It’s knowledge which will allow us to properly build our story to a satisfying conclusion… I’m lucky to get to work with them on sixteen more episodes, and I will always be grateful to both AMC and Sony Television, who from the beginning, believed in our show and supported me creatively and professionally. We have been able to take risks with Breaking Bad which would not have been possible on other networks.

Austruck

08-15-11, 05:01 PM

Yup, just read this this morning. Good info to have, and not TOO far off, especially since we are still in season 4 with new episodes.

Last night's episode was great. Was constantly wondering what the heck was going on with Jesse. I was a bit skeptical during the first episode of this season, but it has hit its stride and all fronts are developing very nicely, IMHO. Am loving the way Hank is sniffing around again now, and Walt's reactions to Karaoke Gabe coming up in conversation all the time are priceless.

filmgirlinterrupted

08-15-11, 05:04 PM

Quote of the Season:

"Since when do vegans eat fried chicken?" - Hank

Austruck

08-15-11, 05:12 PM

Ha ha! Yeah! I love that we are watching Hank circumnavigate the clues arrrrrrrounnnnnnnd Walt but leading to people NEAR him first -- so it'll be perhaps Jesse (though that sniffing is currently on hold, it seems) and now Gus. And I can't wait to see Skyler's reaction to Walt's inebriated mumbling at the table with Hank and Marie. She looked fit to be tied. :)

Yoda

08-16-11, 11:17 AM

Regarding the renewal: great news, but I think that site is wrong in calling it a fifth and final season. Most reports on the renewal are only saying it'll be 16 episodes, but don't specify whether or not that'll be one more season, split into two, or something else. Neither would shock me.

Yoda

08-16-11, 11:24 AM

Anyway, last episode: looks like Gus is making a move to either get Jesse on his side, or at least create a bit of a rift between Jesse and Walt, which I think will probably work, at least somewhat. Walt's strung Jesse along because Jesse, deep down, desires the approval of a father figure, and now he's starting to get that from other places. And, of course, it gives Jesse something to think about and do rather than destroy himself. So, as usual, Gus kills nineteen birds with a single stone.

Love Walt getting drunk and letting his pride put him in danger once again, as it has throughout the series. And I wonder if it'll even hurt him. The obvious result is that Hank gets back on the case and catches Walt at some point. The less obvious (and less intuitive) result is that Walt's pride actually helps him, by putting Hank on the trail of Gus, who's out to kill Walt. And given the Los Pollos Hermanos wrapper Hank noticed at the end, that would certainly seem like a nod in that direction. In other words, just as Walt lucked out that Gale's lab notes implied he was Heisenberg, could his carelessness now fix the Gus problem for him?

And think about this for a second: imagine that this happens, and Hank catches Gus without catching Walt (not hard to imagine, I don't think). Look at the last year or so of Hank's life: he kills Tucco, it helps Walt. He kills the cartel assassins, which were at one point also coming for Walt. He beats up Walt's estranged partner. Then he catches the guy trying to kill Walt. And all this time he's related to Heisenberg and sharing police information with him. Are we seeing a pattern? What objective observer is going to see all these coincidences and not think that Hank might be in on it? How easy would it be to frame him, given this behavior?

Yoda

08-19-11, 01:35 PM

And think about this for a second: imagine that this happens, and Hank catches Gus without catching Walt (not hard to imagine, I don't think). Look at the last year or so of Hank's life: he kills Tucco, it helps Walt. He kills the cartel assassins, which were at one point also coming for Walt. He beats up Walt's estranged partner. Then he catches the guy trying to kill Walt. And all this time he's related to Heisenberg and sharing police information with him. Are we seeing a pattern? What objective observer is going to see all these coincidences and not think that Hank might be in on it? How easy would it be to frame him, given this behavior?
Forgot to include: Hank's also accepting (without knowing it, mind you), like, $100,000 in medical bills from Walt.

To an outside observer, it looks exactly like Hank is in on this stuff. And it'll really look that way if he ends up nabbing Gus.

Austruck

08-20-11, 03:10 PM

I had NOT made that connection with the medical bills, but that might be the show's ace in the hole regarding how/why Hank wouldn't turn in Walt. They'd both go down.

I'm undecided if they'll end the series with Walt in some horrific situation (jail or dead) or if they will somehow redeem him and let him slip back out of the "business" quietly and back into his previous life, wiser and having learned a few things. I'd be okay with either one if it's done properly.

Yoda

08-20-11, 03:14 PM

I'd actually bet money at this point on things ending badly for Walt, either through jail/death, or through just misery at what he's become. If that doesn't happen, I think it'll be a major narrative failure. But maybe Gilligan really is good enough to make that work. I guess we'll see.

Austruck

08-20-11, 03:16 PM

Well, assuming they have an entire season after this one, what happens? If somebody takes down Gus in some way (and that's just gotta happen), then where does Walt peddle his wares next? Higher up? Doubt it. Lower down? Ehh, I'm thinking the bloom might be off the rose by the time Gus goes down. Perhaps a scare with Walt's family's safety -- the one thing that would scare Walt straight, methinks.

And then, he and Skyler run the car wash happily ever after, with his "gambling problem" conquered.... It could happen. Not sure I prefer it, but it could happen and be believable.

As for Jesse... not sure where he ends up if Walt gives up the meth cooking.

Yoda

08-20-11, 03:24 PM

Doesn't everything we've seen suggest he'll keep working his way up? He's had numerous opportunities to avoid conquest in the drug world (the offer of charity, the fact that he'd at one point made enough to quit and just live his life), but he's always chosen to keep pushing. He's gotten a taste for dominating other people, and he obviously likes it. Think of the "stay out of my territory" scene in the parking lot.

Maybe he'll change gears, but his forward momentum has always been to keep expanding and keep dominating. He has rejected every opportunity to get out of the game, or to scale back, or anything like that. He likes it now. He specifically likes the danger, even: hence the sequences that show him sleepwalking through his arrangement with Gus, because it now feels like a boring clock-punching job, or his trepidation about getting back together with Skyler now, because he can't do whatever he wants with her more involved.

There are a few glimmers with his son and daughter, to be sure, but I think he's yet to choose a normal life over this new, exciting, dangerous life at any point when forced to pick between the two. I think he likes being an alpha male after a lifetime of being kicked around, and he's not giving it up.

Austruck

08-20-11, 03:27 PM

Ahh, but I still sense that, if THEY were in danger because of his cooking (which he hasn't admitted to himself yet, or to Skyler), things would change. He's never really dealt with just how much his choices are affecting them.

I can see a huge crash-and-burn with family members either injured or worse... and only that would change his course of action.

So I agree with you, with the caveat that there IS one thing that would turn him away... but just the one thing.

Yoda

08-20-11, 04:20 PM

I'd agree there. IF anything turns him around--though let's start small: if anything causes him to even mitigate his desires in any way at all, to start--it would be his family.

He's bumping up awfully close to that, though. He has to think Gus is capable of harming his family, given the thing with his drug dealers utilizing kids, and the fact that Gus was willing to let them off for that with merely a warning. And the cartel hit men in his house briefly should have served as a much bigger wakeup call than it actually did.

ash_is_the_gal

08-20-11, 05:53 PM

Yoda, you mentioned that Walt spent his life being "kicked around" - how do you mean? we haven't seen much from the past (pre-season 1) and i was kinda hoping we'd get some insight on what Walt's whole deal is. we actually know more about Jesse than we do about Walt.

Austruck

08-20-11, 05:56 PM

I assume he meant that he was kicked around as a lowly teacher and especially at the car wash job. And of course, kicked around by "life" generally when he got cancer...

No?

ash_is_the_gal

08-20-11, 05:57 PM

I.... guess. But there's gotta be more to it.

Yoda

08-20-11, 06:23 PM

There's the stuff we see, for sure, but by the time we first meet him he's very timid. Everyone steps on him. Hank openly teases him in front of other people, his wife gives him a sexual favor while messing around on eBay, his students don't respect him, and even his son ribs him a bit (though he respects him a lot more now, obviously).

We've still yet to see a lot of his back story, but from what we know it looks like he had some falling out with Gretchen, she ended up with his partner, and his pride caused him to quit and miss out on a good deal of wealth.

I'm extrapolating a bit, but the man we meet in the premiere is very much beaten down and letting people walk all over him, which is why he snaps, and one of the reasons I think he takes to such a dramatic plan as easily as he does. It's part rationale, part rationalization for a personal explosion that had been building up for years.

I think we'll probably see more of this, but that's my interpretation, at least. It's very Falling Down.

Austruck

08-22-11, 12:32 PM

Wow, last night's episode had some very telling moments for deciphering Walt's psyche. The snipping at Skyler ("I AM the danger!") was just priceless, as was his statement to Jesse, "It's all about me."

He's a lot more narcissistic about all this than I had previously thought, so perhaps Yoda is right about Walt's inability to break free of his trajectory at this point. I still think something could snap him back to reality, since he does realize fairly quickly his misstep with Skyler. However, now I'm left to wonder if his apologies to her are just ways to keep the family intact while he continues on his merry way....

It now seems clear that what really floats his boat and gets his adrenaline pumping is the power he envisions he has. And of course, the scene with Bogdan (or whatever his name is) telling him how hard it is to be the boss was a lovely piece of irony ... in just the right episode.

I think what made me realize Walt might not be redeemable was when he didn't let Bogdan take his framed dollar bill with him. Something about that seemed particularly ugly.

Austruck

08-22-11, 12:36 PM

Oh, and juxtapose this with Skyler's more normal reactions to things: She rightly picks up and leaves after that frightening speech by Walt in the bedroom, but when she's at the Four Corners tossing a coin to see which state to go to, it's so poignant that she keeps hitting Colorado and then just scoots the coin over to New Mexico with her foot.

She's the one party of the two who wants the family to stay together, who truly cares about people other than herself. And she's obviously the only one of the two who's thinking clearly and long-term. Her cover story is brilliant as far as it goes, and yet Walt barely pays lip service to it, thinking he is invincible.

I feel sorry for her that she is always the "bitch mom," as she puts it, and yet she realizes it's worth that sacrifice of her respect in order to keep Walt and the kids safe. She knows Walt won't bother with a cover story and protection if she's not there.

"Somebody needs to protect this family from the man who's protecting this family."

Priceless.

Yoda

08-22-11, 12:44 PM

Yeah, that's going to go down as one of the best scenes in the entire series. Both because of "I AM the danger!" and "I am the one who knocks!" And it all stems from that same place: being furious that people still think of him as weak and ineffectual. We could not have asked for a clearer example of why he's doing what he's doing than that scene. If it were just about the money he'd never say that. He wouldn't say it even if he just really enjoyed conquest. No, he says it because a big part of the appeal of being an alpha male, for him, is being recognized as an alpha male. Skyler nailed him with the "part of you wants to get caught" line. She's absolutely right, because if he were caught, everyone would be forced to think of him differently. Nothing ticks him off like people thinking he's still a mild-mannered guy.

The Bogdan scene was fantastic. As soon as I saw the dollar on the wall I knew what was going to happen. Buying a soda with it was a great touch.

Anyway, we confirmed a lot of the things we've discussed in this episode, I think. Not just about Walt's motivation, but about Gus, who seems to have determined exactly what we were talking about after last week: that parental-like approval is what keeps Walt and Jesse together, and he's moving in on that territory to drive a wedge between them. Holding out hope for the odd scrap of approval--which to this point consists only of Walt telling Jesse the meth he cooked was good--is the only reason Jesse's had to stay near Walt. Being in his orbit has destroyed him in every other way. Take away that one thing, and he's got no reason to be loyal to Walt and every reason to turn on him. He's really screwed Jesse up in far worse, far less reversible ways than he was screwed up when the series started.

Speaking of which, Walt really is a genius given how quickly and easily he figured out what was going on there. He completely nailed it, and he's absolutely right that it's all about him. He just shouldn't say it that way in front of Jesse.

Austruck

08-22-11, 12:53 PM

Yeah, precisely! I kept thinking, "Wow, he said exactly what's going on here, but WHY would he just blurt it out like that, in such obviously self-centered terminology?"

Well, because everything's all about him now, and I think the reason he's so pissed at Jesse isn't that he cares about Jesse's personal welfare anymore (like he used to a few seasons ago), but because he hates not being in control of Jesse. He hates Gus moving in on his father-son-like relationship and giving Jesse the kind of (strange) support that Walt hasn't been able to give him in the past season and a half or so.

The fact that Gus could accomplish this with a mere backward glance and "I hear you can take care of yourself" one-line comment acknowledging Jesse's existence and that he and Mike had just had a positive conversation about him says a lot.

I also liked that we were briefly given Jesse's perspective standing outside the restaurant, waiting and unable to hear exactly what Mike and Gus were saying. Nice little touch there. Gus strolls out and encapsulates the whole thing in that one line, and we KNOW Jesse had to have felt better about himself than he has in a LONG time.

The wedge is firmly there, and Walt won't have the necessary tools to pry it loose anymore. Gus is a true boss -- calculating, thinking clearly, not acting on emotion ... all things Walt is increasingly lacking.

Yoda

08-22-11, 01:01 PM

I think it was "I like to think I can see things in people." Which is perfect, because it doesn't sound fake or staged, and he made Jesse specifically ask him about it. They're giving Jesse just the tiniest hints and letting him unravel the rest, which is the best way to make it seem genuine. And Jesse, after all this time, obviously wants to believe he's special deep down, and wants to believe someone can see it.

Walt's move to take out Gale was brilliant. I didn't see it coming at all, but it was an absolute masterstroke. But Gus is nothing if not adaptive. He underestimated Walt, as so many have, but he isn't going to make that mistake again. In the wake of that mistake, he clearly sat down, reassessed Walt, took a look at his relationship with Jesse, and figured out what he can exploit. And he seems to have figured correctly.

The thing is, I'm pretty sure Walt's going to win this fight. I just don't know what it'll cost him. He's going to have to do some terrible things. And when he does, we're all going to look back on that little speech Bogdan gave him about being the boss, and how hard it is. That's going to end up describing what Walt has to do to become (and perhaps stay) a full-fledged crime lord.

Austruck

08-22-11, 01:08 PM

Yeah, as much as I see Walt unraveling due to his hubris (at this point), I also don't see Gus lasting much beyond this season, if that. We now know there are others out there vying for his spot (the guys who keep hijacking the chicken trucks), and to me that makes Gus seem more expendable: The series has other bosses up the ladder (or at least on an even plane with Gus) to replace him.

I definitely see Walt edging his way further up the crime-boss ladder here, and that'll have to mean Gus will go. And does that mean Mike is now Walt's right-hand man? Does Mike's loyalty lie to Gus alone or to the job/position, with varying bosses along the way?

Oh, and I think Mike may have genuinely told Gus some good things about Jesse. It was clear he was a bit amazed at how cleverly Jesse handled the meth heads, besting Mike's wait-and-see method by a long shot. So now there is some genuine "admiration" for Jesse's abilities in play here. So Gus's statement to Jesse wasn't all coddling.

Yoda

08-22-11, 01:21 PM

Oh yeah. Gus is sharp, but with the cartel and with Hank, who's probably going to be breathing down his neck in no time, he's going to be distracted.

Speaking of which, they're really keeping us in the dark with this cartel stuff. What's the power structure like now that Gus tipped the federales off? Sounds like they're missing with his shipments to prompt a sit down, but what for? Some kind of truce?

Austruck

08-22-11, 01:31 PM

I was surprised when Gus just announced that he wanted a sit-down. So apparently they know who these people are and how to get in touch with them? I hadn't really envisioned that part, thinking it was still somewhat of a mystery that Mike was sent to find out when HE was in the first truck alone.

It didn't look like there was a, uh, phone number or anything on that chicken bucket, so I guess I was a bit curious to know how they know these folks. Though I suppose in the higher-ups of the drug world, everyone knows everyone, at least in theory. :)

Pyro Tramp

08-26-11, 04:23 PM

Wow.

S307 - 'One Minute' was perhaps one the best episode of television i've seen. Brilliant.

Yoda

08-31-11, 12:12 PM

Yeah, I think that's one of the top 5 episodes for almost every viewer. So good. I'll put thoughts about the current season in the next post so it's easier for you to avoid spoilers until you've caught up (nearly there?)...

Yoda

08-31-11, 12:25 PM

Meanwhile, we're just over halfway through season 4. So far I'm fairly pleased. There was some lumbering, but I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that this is the first season I've had to watch in "real time." Be very interesting to see what's going down with Gus and the cartel; we don't really know what they want. Submission? A resumption of some old arrangement? Or--get this--do they want Walt? I think they might. They're making a distinct effort to not tell us what it is they're fighting about, specifically, because I think it's going to be surprise. I think the cartel wants Walt, which means Gus was willing to offer them $50 million not to take him.

By the way, was anyone else disappointed that, when Walt torched the Dodge Challenger, he didn't smash the windshield first for old times' sake? He couldn't thrown in another crotch grab for good measure.

"RETURN THIS!"

Yoda

08-31-11, 12:32 PM

Okay, big, broad-stroke thoughts.

1. Breaking Bad is about the creation of a psychopath

All the petty (and not-so-petty) frustrations of life have been building up in Walt his entire life. The cancer and his family situation only provides him with an excuse to unleash them. The guy loses Gretchen, loses his stake in Grey Matter, is reduced to working a job well below his intelligence and education, is forced to work a menial job to make ends meet, has a domineering brother in law, a son with a disability who's still far more confident and direct than he is, and so many other things. This stuff has been piling up for decades.

Now, after three seasons, there's really no mistaking that he's lost his humanity. In some instances this is very obvious, like the "F**k you" to Gretchen or the fact that he's now willing to kill people, even if he usually requires some half-baked rationalization about self-defense. But it's most evident, I think, when he tries to comfort others. Like in the beginning of season 3, when he speaks to the students in the gymnasium. He is, I'm sure, playing down the tragedy in part because he feels responsible for it, but it's also because I think he has no idea what suffering people need to hear any more. They don't care that some other crash was worse, or that this one could have been worse. And Marie doesn't want to hear Walt's rambling about his own hospital stay (though he brings it home at the end with a somewhat helpful comment). But Walt doesn't know how normal people feel any more. We see this in other areas, too, like when he completely misreads the principal's concern for him as a come-on. He is often completely out of tune with other people's emotions.

Those scenes, to me, are among the most telling and subtle and brilliant, because in them we see that Walt knows he's supposed to comfort people, and he tries to, but he's terrible at it now. And he doesn't realize he's terrible at it. His barometer for what being a human feels like is broken. At most, we just get tiny glimmers that there's still a person in there, but it's fading fast.

2. Everyone who stays close to Walt will be infected by him

It keeps happening. Jesse, for all his flaws, was way better off before meeting Walt, and before hanging around with him. He's nearly gotten out a few times, but he clearly looks up to Walt and can't say no to him, in the end. And now he's past the point of no return.

Skyler's the same way: she's coming to accept an unacceptable situation, and is basically a criminal accomplice now. The more time she spends with Walt, the more of a criminal she becomes. We see it even with Gus and Gale. Not in that he makes them worse people, but in that he brings death and destruction and chaos to them. Walt is morally radioactive. You cannot be near him or involved with him without being brought down.

3. He's not coming back

This is kind of the same point as #1, but I'll be stunned if things end well for Walt. I just don't think that's what this show is about. He is way, way too far gone. I only see it ending one of two ways, and personally I'd find both of them very satisfying, from a narrative standpoint:

a) Walt dies.
b) Walt goes to jail, but still doesn't think he's the bad guy.

Less satisfying and consistent, but still plausible (though it would disappoint me):

c) Walt lives and gets away, but everyone around him is destroyed in one form or another.

I find b) fascinating, because of that second component. Because I think he's so far gone that he could be sentenced to a lifetime in prison, and still find a way to rationalize things in his mind. And, frankly, he'd sort of enjoy letting the entire world know that "he is the danger." Part of him wants it.

The real giveaway quote from creator Vince Gilligan (though there have been lots of them) is this, from a New York Times article where he's describing his philosophy:

"My girlfriend says this great thing that’s become my philosophy as well. ‘I want to believe there’s a heaven. But I can’t not believe there’s a hell.’"

We see this most perfectly reflected in Jesse's outburst at the NA meeting. He's mad that these people won't condemn him, that they want to forgive, because he doesn't think he's forgivable. The difference between Walt and Jesse is that Jesse actually understands how bad he is. He is aware of how terrible his actions are and understands that he deserves to suffer for them. He can't not believe there's a hell.

Brodinski

08-31-11, 01:12 PM

I started watching S2 yesterday. I wasn't too enthusiastic about the first season. I've already said in TUS's thread that it felt kinda scrambled together and very chaotic to watch. Also, there were some little details that bugged me.

S2 is ok so far, but not the increase in quality I expected. I keep reading about the multi-layered character of the show, but so far I haven't seen any of that. Does this refer to Walt doing bad things (cooking meth, which will be put on the market, thus killing people eventually) in order to support his family financially once he dies (which is a good thing)? I haven't seen Walt upset about cooking meth and the fact that this will eventually ruin people's lives. To my knowledge so far (Ep.3, S2), this hasn't been touched upon at all.

I don't know. So far, it just seems to be a show about a guy looking to ensure his family's future once he's gone by earning lots of money in the quickest way he knows. And that's just... ok, but nothing more than that.

Yoda

08-31-11, 01:20 PM

Hmm, by that point you should already see lots of ulterior motives creeping into Walt's rationalization about providing for his family. But if not, it won't be long.

ash_is_the_gal

08-31-11, 03:27 PM

to be honest, I didn't love the show until about halfway through the second season.

Pyro Tramp

09-01-11, 07:32 PM

All caught up, definitely didn't think it hit it's stride till S3 when watching episode after episode became compulsive.

The whole S2 teddybear/pool/body bag build up fell completely flat with the revelation, Q suddenly having that job? Nah, didn't like it. Do like the fact it's retaining a very tight timeframe, almost real-time.

Brod- I think there's a bit with his assistant where he rationalises why he got into the business and how if they want it, they'll go and buy it anyway so makes sense to give them the purest form of it- I think that's why Walt doesn't feel the 'eventually killing the consumer' guilt. I found a lot of the character complexity comes in S3 and S4 like Jesse's dealing with his actions and Walt's realisation of the ripple effect he's having about him. I love the subtlety of the dialogue, there's no clunky exposition or emotional outburst but it all unravels with the characters actions and the other things that they do say.

Yoda- I don't think the whole he's becoming a psychopath is where they've seen the destination but perhaps a symptom of the journey. He's definitely turning worse, he almost had no hesitation with those dealers to save Jesse but despite that, i'd much rather see it end on a Sopranos-esque ambiguous ending than something as finite as your suggestions.

I'd say the Cartel almost definitely wants Walt, there's nothing much else that's been revealed to us to be worth that much. Hank's little line when describing the lab as 'the biggest North of the border' seemed to underline the drug industry is far bigger down that side. I'm wondering how close Hank will get to Walt, whether he will make the connection and what he'll do, i'm hoping they can find their bottle to pull something off better than Dexter managed.

StrongReaction

09-05-11, 02:47 PM

Wow. Each episode this season is getting better and better and last night’s was definitely the best so far IMO. It was great to finally get some background on Gus as I have been fascinated with him since he was introduced and the flashback with him, his brother and the cartel was gripping. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time and even though I could kind of see where it was going I still jumped a little when the blood splattered on Gus. We’ve only seen Gus as a cold and calculating business man and the actor and writers did an excellent job showing a different side of him as well as providing very plausible reasons for the actions he’s taken with cartel and tipping off Hank.

Speaking of cold and calculating, his interview with the police was masterfully done and he seemingly had answers for everything (the part about Gale liking to take shortcuts was especially brilliant I thought) but afterwards in the elevator we saw the slightest hint that he may be becoming unraveled by everything.

Back to the flashback, the one thing I wasn’t sure about was why the boss didn’t shoot Gus as well? What did he have to gain by keeping him alive? The line “You’re only alive because I know who you are” at first had me thinking he must be from a connected family in Chile but as I thought about it for a minute that didn’t make sense since they had just shot his brother. Oh well, I’m sure we’ll get more on that next week.

Also even as they show a more human side to Gus they manage to show an even colder, more vengeful side too him as well with his visits to Tuco’s uncle. He could obviously have had him killed at any time but he chooses to keep him alive and debilitated to torment him. The line “This is what comes from blood for blood” was chilling and perfectly delivered.

Anyway this week’s episode was amazing but also reminded me why I hate watching TV shows as they air – waiting a week for the next episode is going to be brutal.

Yoda

09-05-11, 02:53 PM

Yeah, agreed, great episode. I can't believe that actually made us feel sorry for Gus! Well played. I also think this strengthens the interpretation that the cartel wants him to hand over Walt, because that means it's the same situation playing itself out, in a way: they want to take his "cook." He doesn't love Walt the way he did with Max, but I've got to imagine there's a little "not this time" sentiment there.

As for the idea that he's from some connect family in Chile: I think that's correct. Max was not really his brother, so the fact that they killed him wouldn't contradict that. Very curious to see what Gus is known for, though. But I like that the problem he's worried about isn't them not finding out who he was (IE: his name isn't real), but them succeeding in finding out who he was (IE: his name is real, and has some major connotations).

Great episode, really like where they're going with this. Still figure Gus has got to go down, and the way the cartel, Hank, and Walt/Jesse are closing in leaves us with a ridiculous number of permutations as to how it might happen. However it does, I have to think Walt's going to get away, and find himself in a position to become the kingpin he's been trying to become. The ascendency (or descent, depending on which angle you approach it from) will continue.

Yoda

09-05-11, 02:59 PM

I've also heard it suggested that it's actually less that Walt is some kind of parallel for Max, and more that Gale was. Which might make more sense, given that both Max and Gale seemed like gentle guys and Gus, therefore, has already gone through the same thing, losing his partner, even if this time it was more like a prospective partnership that hadn't emerged yet. This doesn't tie into the cartel's demands, but I think it fits better otherwise.

Oh, and I loved "If you keep digging I'm sure you'll find me."

I also love that Gus specifically wants the device on his car. He's not like a mobster, who can survive with everyone knowing he's a criminal, as long as they don't technically catch him. His M.O. is to hide in plain sight, which means he needs to let Hank search his life and come up empty, and actually become fairly convinced he's innocent.

Pyro Tramp

09-05-11, 03:12 PM

Austruck

09-05-11, 03:30 PM

FWIW, the whole "scholarship" thing with Gus is another example of his hiding in plain sight. Looks like he's a marvelous philanthropist ... until you realize he established the scholarship PRECISELY to find someone to replace Max. Brilliant!

And yeah, Max isn't his brother. They called them the Chicken Brothers as a joke, and then mocked them for the fact that they don't look like brothers (white meat and dark meat).

And we see why Gus is going to keep protecting Walt -- it's as much a matter of principle as it is business. It helps that Walt is probably the best cook he's ever seen (perhaps even better than Max was), but he'd protect him anyway just out of spite toward the cartel.

And I think Mike's telling Gus that Hank doesn't have anything on him and is just grasping at straws may make Gus let down his guard just a little bit ... enough for him to expose himself to danger.

I know Walt's got Jesse lined up to "off" Gus for him, but I'm curious if Jesse will thumb his nose at Walt over this. He's done Walt's dirty work on too many occasions now, and it's obvious Walt feels himself too important to get his hands dirty anymore. But Jesse's sober and cleaning up his act on all fronts. He's heard Walt say some condescending things toward him (even if they're somewhat inadvertent). So, how long till Jesse's loyalty to Walt cracks?

And, when he left the car and said he didn't need a ride home, I assume that meant he was going to reestablish contact with the girl and her son, yes? Perhaps some semblance of stability, love, and home/hearth will help Jesse break free ... when I had previously thought those things would tug at WALT. Now I'm not so sure which one will succumb to the lure of normal life again....

Very well done. And agree, every episode this season is getting better and better. I used to wait till Monday to watch the new episodes, when hubby and I could watch together (it's far more fun that way), but I find I can't wait 24 hours when I KNOW there is a new episode out there. I watch it as it airs, hubby or not. :D

Pyro Tramp

09-05-11, 03:34 PM

Jesse's allegiance to Walt has already broken, he said he's not seen Gus or likely to then Walt intercepted Jesse's text cancelling the meeting with Gus. Walt KNOWS Jesse isn't onside any more and is siding with Gus

Yoda

09-05-11, 03:39 PM

While I agree that Jesse's allegiance to Walt may be shot, I definitely wouldn't say he's on Gus' side. Walt, even though he was condescending in the way he did it, seemed to get through to Jesse when he reminded him that Gus is the guy whose men killed that boy. And now we see that he's still giving money to Andrea and Brock, and the last thing we see of Jesse indicates that he's going to go see them himself. To say what, I wonder? I'm about to kill the man who killed your brother, perhaps?

To me, this indicates that Jesse's not on anyone's side any more. And it also indicates to me that he's probably still going to try to kill Gus. But he's going to do it for himself, and for them, not for Walt. That's what's so interesting about this: Walt and Gus are fighting for a loyalty that neither of them has any hope of winning any more.

Austruck

09-05-11, 03:44 PM

Good point (Jesse killing Gus for his own reasons).

Also, I guess I wasn't sure the meeting text was about meeting with Gus himself. I thought it was a text from Mike saying MIKE couldn't meet (to go collect money or whatever) because Gus was too busy to meet with Mike.

But hmmm... your way makes more sense. LOL

Yoda

09-05-11, 03:47 PM

I have no idea what the text was about. Walt clearly assumed it was about Gus, but the fact that we saw nothing to confirm this makes me think it's quite likely this is a mistaken assumption.

The show is withholding a fair amount of information from us right now: who sent that text, what the cartel wants from Gus, what Jesse plans to do, and what about Gus' background in Chile is being hidden. Normally, when a show does this sort of thing, it's because most of the information would tip off some other big shocker or course of events, so I'm guessing at least a couple of these items won't be brought to light for a few more episodes. But who knows. If there's one thing Breaking Bad does well, it's the out-of-left-field stuff.

Pyro Tramp

09-05-11, 03:55 PM

I said 'siding' with Gus, not sided. With the scene where Walt 'got through to Jesse', I saw it more of Jesse always knew and Walt's words didn't really sway him. I thought that was how the text was meant to be interpreted, from Mike regarding Gus. You can always spot pertinent themes from what they chose to show in the 'previously on' and one line was Mike to Jesse about 'seeing loyalty but not sure to who'. Maybe I missed something but I thought that was pretty clear cut that Jesse was having doubts about killing him and new found respect for Gus who's treating him differently to Walt's more patronising tact.

The only mystery is who Gus was in Chile. I can't even fathom what his connection was to stop the Cartel knocking him off, maybe something political?

Yoda

09-05-11, 04:04 PM

Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were saying he had sided with Gus. I don't think he's siding with him, either, but it's very open to interpretation, to be sure. I think you're probably right, for example, that Jesse "always knew" about Andrea's brother and never forgot it, but I do think that fact will stop him from ever really siding with Gus. I guess, if I had to pick, I'd say that Gus' approval didn't so much bond Jesse to him, as it just severed whatever bond he had with Walt, if that makes sense. I think he's becoming aware of how his desire for fatherly approval has let him be manipulated, and that going forward he's going to be his own guy with loyalty for neither of the dangerous, manipulative men who are vying for his allegiance.

I'm with you on the Chile thing. I have guesses, and most are a lot like what you just said (some political connection), but it's hard to figure out what that would look like. Maybe he had a connection to the Colombian suppliers he mentioned? Both Colombia and Chile are in South America, though they don't share a border and aren't all that close to each other. But it's hard to imagine a ruthless drug cartel respecting anything other than something which might hurt their ability to deal drugs.

Austruck

09-05-11, 04:06 PM

Pyro Tramp

09-05-11, 04:15 PM

Agree with both y'all. Though think part of Jesse letting himself get connected with the family etc comes from his sense of place working with Gus and allowing himself to settle into a 'normal' life outside of work. Maybe it's a blindside and covering his actual motives.

The political intrigue might have come from him name dropping Pinochet and having watched Tony Manero last night.

StrongReaction

09-05-11, 04:16 PM

I've always liked Gus, like him more now. Think Walt taking over as Kingpin is the trajectory of the show but will be sad to see Gus go. The episode definitely served to underpin his reasons of protecting Walt, a showdown with them will be pretty interesting but half see Gus not fighting him

I agree. I know this is Walt's show but I've found myself rooting for Gus lately and hoping he comes out on top although I know this is not gonna happen.

I hadn't realized the two were not actual brothers. The idea of Gus coming from some kind of important family definitly makes sense now. I like your idea about him being worried about his name and the connotations that go with it, very interesting. Especially since he did seem worried when Hank asked him about it, albeit almost imperceptibly so. It was the one question that did seem to rattle him just a bit, although he still played it very cool.

Also I wouldn't necisarily say Jesse's allegiance to Walt is shot (although it very well could be, but from the scenes they showed of next week it seemed like Jesse was defending Walt) but rather that Walt's allegiance to Jesse is shot. I think Jesse is just trying to figure out what exactly to do. However we all know Walt isn't the most rational person and prone to paranoia so the percieved slight of Jesse lying to him could send him off the deep end. In his mind he's been defending this kid and putting his life on the line for him and now Jesse's been "promoted" and he's going behind his back and lying, it's the ultimate insult. I'm really curious to see Walts reaction.

Pyro Tramp

09-05-11, 04:18 PM

That's an interesting take and an even better avatar! Always room for an AD fan round here.

Yoda

09-05-11, 04:24 PM

Yeah, I'm curious about Gus's past in Chile now too. And the way they say it, so much depends on whether Gus is using his real name. If he's used an alias since leaving Chile, then he could've been anyone and the secret is what his name used to be, which would be enough for both the cartel and eventually Hank to KNOW who he "is" ...

If he's always been Gus, then whoever he "is" must be more subtle. And is he keeping it hidden because of things he himself has done in the past, or things perhaps his family has done or is involved in? It could be as simple as being the son of a wealthy drug kingpin and not wanting to come into new countries with that stigma ... especially if he wants to fly under the radar himself and be a similar kingpin.
Yeah, I think that's his real name. Mike said something like "if I can't find any trace of you, they won't be able to, either." No way to know for sure, but that was my interpretation. Though I guess it probably doesn't make any difference.

Gus doesn't seem to have the ego that needs to be notorious. He'd rather be successful and rich and be seen by nearly everyone as a mild-mannered chicken restaurant owner.
Yep. Contrast that with Walt, who wants everyone to know he's a badass, even if proclaiming it puts him in more danger.

I loved, BTW, the attention to detail that keeps Gus on top: We see him coaching one of the fry vat workers on how to do the job, which tells us he's (strangely) not just a figurehead at the restaurants.
Definitely. He actually DOES run the business, I'm sure, as a normal business on top of everything else. What he was showing Walt when he invited him over for dinner is that, in order to be in the drug game and actually make it work as a career, you have to live it through and through, you can't do it the way so many other kingpins do, guns blazing and defiant. Apparently none of that sunk in for Walt.

Loved that scene, partially because it made me think of season 4 of Dexter. They both showed the main characters of each show that perhaps what they'd been doing actually did have a long-term future that didn't necessarily end in their utter destruction. But while Dexter pondered it and hoped for it, Walt seems to have completely ignored it. Probably because he's not in it for the money or the success, he's in it for the conquest and the visceral thrill of dominating others.

Speaking of which, love how completely unempathetic he was with the other cancer patient. He really doesn't know how to relate to other human beings any more.

StrongReaction

09-05-11, 04:24 PM

That's an interesting take and an even better avatar! Always room for an AD fan round here.

Haha. Thanks. Any fan of Arrested Development is a friend of mine! There's far too few of them.

Pyro Tramp

09-05-11, 04:29 PM

I thought Gus was an alias?

Yoda

09-05-11, 04:31 PM

I agree. I know this is Walt's show but I've found myself rooting for Gus lately and hoping he comes out on top although I know this is not gonna happen.
Gah, I just can't. I appreciate him in a Hannibal Lecter sort of way, or in the way Bishop admires the Alien for its "purity." And I admit that I feel some pity for him after this last episode, but this is the only pity I've ever felt for him, and all I need to do to stop myself from rooting for him is to think about what he did to Victor, the look on his face when he did it, and the things he allowed to happen to children, which I don't really believe he was unaware of. Even if he was, I sure don't think he didn't authorize the killing that followed.

None of which should be mistaken for the idea that I'm rooting for Walt! I'm rooting for justice, which I think will come down hard on both of them.

I hadn't realized the two were not actual brothers. The idea of Gus coming from some kind of important family definitly makes sense now. I like your idea about him being worried about his name and the connotations that go with it, very interesting. Especially since he did seem worried when Hank asked him about it, albeit almost imperceptibly so. It was the one question that did seem to rattle him just a bit, although he still played it very cool.
Agreed. I think he knew what they were going to ask him, which is why he had such a smooth story (delivered without a hint of improvisation) for everything but that. Hank is the wildcard he can't quite account for. It makes sense, because his conversation with Mike tells us that they have no trouble accessing information about the DEA's investigations. They clearly have a source or a plant in the department (I've heard people suggest the big boss guy, the one with white hair and the deep voice, is on Gus' payroll). But since Hank is operating outside the department, Gus can't account for him, and therefore couldn't prepare for his question.

Also I wouldn't necisarily say Jesse's allegiance to Walt is shot (although it very well could be, but from the scenes they showed of next week it seemed like Jesse was defending Walt) but rather that Walt's allegiance to Jesse is shot. I think Jesse is just trying to figure out what exactly to do. However we all know Walt isn't the most rational person and prone to paranoia so the percieved slight of Jesse lying to him could send him off the deep end. In his mind he's been defending this kid and putting his life on the line for him and now Jesse's been "promoted" and he's going behind his back and lying, it's the ultimate insult. I'm really curious to see Walts reaction.
I like that even more: the idea that Jesse is actually going back and forth, but Walt's going to jump the gun, accuse him, and blow up any chance he had of retaining any loyalty.

Lots of ways they can go with this. But in the end, both Walt and Gus have done things I think he has to find unforgivable. And we still have to assume he's going to find out about Jane at some point, right? I wouldn't call it a given, because this show is definitely smart and subversive enough to let that never come to the surface, but I'd still bet on it coming out at some point, if I had to choose.

Oh, and since we're talking about rooting, I'm pretty sure Hank is my favorite character. He's morphed from a buffoon who was good at his job, to just a guy who's good at his job. Impeccable instincts. Hard not to admire his tenacity, too. I'm really impressed by the way Hank's been brought along as a character.

Skepsis93

09-05-11, 04:36 PM

Another series I've caught onto late... I do this much too often. Just finished Season 1 and loving it so far.

Austruck

09-05-11, 08:15 PM

We're rewatching last night's episode now. Hadn't caught this the first time (because of the order things happened), but the scholarship Gus created is named after Max! LOL Nice touch.

And yes, Hank is awesome. And having all that time on his hands has served him well because he has nothing to do now but think these things through.

I still keep thinking the gem and mineral collection *means* something, but they keep dangling it out there like a random hobby of Hank's. (sigh)

Oh, as an aside, Bryan Cranston's acting any time Walt is in an awkward situation (especially with Hank) is brilliant. A few episodes ago with the talk around the table and the extra wine bottle was priceless, and last night's stint in the car with the GPS tracker was marvelous to watch. I actually found myself squirming in my seat because I felt all of Walt's discomfort at having to talk to Hank about Gus and to watch Mike sitting in the next car.

In so many ways, this show is just flawless sometimes. Acting is so smooth you forget it's a show. Characters speak so naturally that it doesn't feel like written dialogue. Twists and turns feel just random enough to be real-life but yet you also feel the buildup of Something About To Happen, And Soon.

Glorious. Six more days till the next episode. ... :( How many left this season??

ash_is_the_gal

09-06-11, 12:25 AM

did anyone find the timing of the text Jesse received a little... convenient? it came right after they finished talking about Jesse scheduling a meeting so he could "do that thing". it seems fairly obvious to me that Jesse's house is obviously wired for sound. heck, why not? they're being watched everywhere else.

i'm even wondering if they are being watched, not just eavesdropped on. the thought ran through my head that the text was purposely sent while Jesse was in the other room, giving Walt a chance to snoop it, which only furthered the wedge between them.

filmgirlinterrupted

09-06-11, 02:11 AM

Jesse's place is definitely wired.

Pyro Tramp

09-06-11, 06:41 AM

I hope it isn't bugged, all Walt's plans being inevitable futile takes a lot of drive out of the show

Yoda

09-06-11, 09:46 AM

I've been saying that to my wife for awhile: "why are they so sure the place isn't bugged?" I dunno, it would almost feel cheap, but it's hard to imagine why it wouldn't be.

Pyro Tramp

09-06-11, 09:59 AM

I'm assuming Saul (another great character) would have checked the place, considering how he checked his office for bugs

ash_is_the_gal

09-06-11, 12:19 PM

Didn't Mike wire Walt's house like a season ago? i seem to remember that.

Yoda

09-06-11, 12:33 PM

He did indeed. I think it was season 2.

Pyro Tramp

09-06-11, 12:34 PM

On Saul's behest (to keep tabs on Skylar) and the wiring was subsequently removed when Walt found out

Brodinski

09-07-11, 10:33 AM

Just finished the 9th episode of S2. I'm starting to like it better.

SPOILERS AHEAD

Walt is now definitely showing signs of getting more and more ruthless in order to not get caught, but still continue his cooking. Also, Gretchen and her husband offered to pay for his treatment and he declined. Out of pride? Could be, but that is a selfish motive. He should've accepted their offer so that he didn't have to spend his life savings into his treatment or cook meth to finance his treatment and provide for family in the future.

What I also noticed is how little Walt cared about Badger when that lawyer Saul said there was the option of a prison shanking. Walt looked at Jesse with this look of 'it's your call, but I'm OK with that'. That was also the case when he talked Jesse into roughing up those drug addicts so they'd give him back his ounce and his money. Those are definitely signs of Walt having a manipulative mind. Interesting to see where this goes.

Pyro Tramp

09-07-11, 11:03 AM

Brod- very minor spoiler

The issue of the money offered is broached later on and you get your question answered and later a similar situation is paralleled

Austruck

09-07-11, 11:09 AM

Brod, I don't think we need to say "Spoilers Ahead" if we're discussing something two seasons earlier. Heck, we're openly discussing the new episodes as they air, so I'd say it's a free for all in here. :)

I'm assuming Jesse's house is bugged too. We've already seen that Gus sits in that little chicken trailer with images from at least four cameras on his laptop. I was assuming the cameras were all trained on various areas of the work lab, but what's to keep Gus from putting CAM 005 in Jesse's house? We've thought all along that the ominous numbering of that camera in the lab as CAM 001 meant there were enough cameras that they were numbered. (At first we assumed that one camera would be CAM 001 by default, but they've shown it to us enough times that now we assume we'll see some important shot of yet another camera with a number on it at some point.)

Pyro Tramp

09-07-11, 11:21 AM

Although it's logical, I still think it would cheap if it suddenly cropped up to explain how Gus is so prescient and also uncharacteristically un-cautious of Walt. Though i'll probably be wrong like most things. The show doesn't seem to have a habit of holding things back like that, without a subtle hints beforehand to twists or reveals.

Austruck

09-07-11, 11:27 AM

I'm thinking the "CAM 001" is a hint. Plus, of course, the fact that Gus is watching him at work to begin with. Why would he just watch him there? Just to make sure they're not filching bits and pieces? That's only part of it.

Gus isn't foolish enough to think Walt and Jesse interact only at work.

Plus, I now think that the short interaction between Gus and Walt over the counter about the GPS bug, where Gus boldly tells him to put it on his car, which shocks Walt, tells us that Gus feels he has nothing to hide (in where he goes) but that Walt wouldn't feel the same way. Gus must know that. Gus lives a strangely open daily life (in terms of routine). But Walt and Jesse are wildcards now, and there is NO way a man as prudent and cautious as Gus would let Walt and Jesse's houses go unbugged.

We haven't seen that Saul has checked the houses for bugs ... so I'm not going to assume it. Or assume that Saul is better at checking for bugs than Gus would be at planting and hiding them. :)

Pyro Tramp

09-07-11, 11:35 AM

I figured his reason for letting Walt place the bug was pretty clearly shown when he took it off and put in the parking lot of his chicken joint; more easily rectifiable than nothing to hide. Though that was a pretty telling action if Hank realises. The cameras at work are intentionally obtrusive to let Walt know he's being watched so Walt must realise he's not got privacy. Mike turning up car by car in the parking lot should have sent an overload of warning bells to Walt that he's being watched everywhere, seems prudent he'd make sure to check the house was clean before discussing such volatile topics.

Though, thinking about it, it would explain how Mike found the guy who snatched Jesse's loot. Just don't think it's in the style of the show to have a 'hey guess what, surprise!' twist like that. Even if it's not really much a surprise.

Austruck

09-07-11, 11:45 AM

I know what you mean... except that it's NOT much of a surprise and many viewers would now find it a bigger surprise if Gus hadn't bugged either house.

And there are so many hints now, that I just don't see how it would be a surprise or twist at all. Just another unveiling of another layer of the story, IMHO.

Pyro Tramp

09-07-11, 12:39 PM

True, I suppose it's swinging to whether you think Gus or Walt is most cautious, I suppose if Walt found out the house WAS bugged he'd leave them and conduct his conversation with Jesse elsewhere. Wanna take bets?

Yoda

09-12-11, 12:54 AM

Oh my.

MovieMan8877445

09-12-11, 01:02 AM

I missed it tonight because of other shows, but I can only imagine how good tonights episode was after last week. I'll watch it sometime tomorrow.

Austruck

09-12-11, 10:02 AM

Oh my.

I know, right???

It's going to be a lonnnnnnngggggg week. :)

Austruck

09-12-11, 10:04 AM

I missed it tonight because of other shows, but I can only imagine how good tonights episode was after last week. I'll watch it sometime tomorrow.

No no nonooooooo... I mean, we watch True Blood here too, but we HAD to watch Breaking Bad and left True Blood for On Demand tonight, even though it was a season finale too.

That's how much better Breaking Bad has been this time around...

Pyro Tramp

09-12-11, 01:22 PM

Would Walt kill Jesse?

Yoda

09-12-11, 01:38 PM

If his back is completely against the wall? Yeah, I think Walt would do almost anything in the right situation at this point. His morality has become almost completely circumstantial. The only exceptions, if there are any, would probably directly involve his family.

Anyway, I think the fight --coupled with how harshly he spoke to Gus about the prospect of killing Walt--shows us that Jesse's really on his own now. As mad as he is at Walt I don't think his words to Gus have changed. I think both men have burned their bridges with him, the only question is whether or not they realize it, or are going to keep vying for a loyalty they have no hope of winning.

The show's done a very impressive job of building up loose plot strands that can recombine and form new things in a million different ways. For example, does Skyler convince Walt that they need to pay for Ted's back taxes because, if they don't, it'll lead to her and eventually take them down, too? If so, doesn't that mean letting Ted know what's going on (or at least know that they're up to something illegal)? Moreover, if this does happen, would they have sufficient leverage to want to use Ted's business to launder more money, or is that implausible under the assumption that they'll be watched very closely going forward? Lots of angles there.

Oh, kind of amusing to see Jesse win a fight for once. It looked, for a moment there, like he was going to get the crap kicked out of him yet again, but this time I'd say he got the better end of it.

Pretty funny to think of Walt in this fight after all that "I am the danger" and "I am the one who knocks" stuff, along with all that crap he told the guy at the doctor's office about how he controls his life. Walt's image of himself is pretty at odds with reality right now. That's the biggest divide, really: Walt still thinks he's not so bad, morally, and still thinks he's really bad, in the Michael Jackson sense of the word. Jesse is far more self-aware, having proclaimed himself "the bad guy" and still genuinely worrying about the situations he finds himself in. The gap between Walt and Jesse has grown correspondingly to the gap in their respective levels of self-awareness.

Yoda

09-12-11, 01:45 PM

Oh, I did see some other fans suggesting that the fight at the end suggests the house isn't bugged, since if it was, someone would have certainly intervened since Gus obviously can't afford to let either of them die at the moment. I dunno if I'd go as far as saying it's impossible, but I do think it makes the theory less likely.

Which I would prefer, actually, since I think other explanations would be more satisfying. I suppose the logic for why it wouldn't be bugged is that it wouldn't be all that difficult to potentially find it if someone went looking at all, and if they did, it would pretty much shatter Gus' little charm offensive with Jesse. I mean, look at how he reacted to Walt bugging him. Clearly, the idea of not being trusted strikes a big nerve with him, so the risk of bugging him and being found out is/was significant.

MovieMan8877445

09-12-11, 04:29 PM

No no nonooooooo... I mean, we watch True Blood here too, but we HAD to watch Breaking Bad and left True Blood for On Demand tonight, even though it was a season finale too.

That's how much better Breaking Bad has been this time around...

Yeah, but it was the season finale. I didn't choose True Blood over Breaking Bad anyways, I chose to watch the series finale of Entourage just because it was the final episode. I now see that wasn't a good idea, because Breaking Bad isn't on demand yet while the other two are.

filmgirlinterrupted

09-16-11, 12:11 AM

I have this weird feeling that something terrible is going to happen to Walter Jr. Anyone else???

MovieMan8877445

09-19-11, 01:06 AM

Best ending to any episode of Breaking Bad I've seen yet.

filmgirlinterrupted

09-19-11, 01:42 AM

Best ending to any episode of Breaking Bad I've seen yet.

Tonight's episode was just...explosive! Probably one of the best cliffhangers of the entire series :cool:

Yoda

09-19-11, 01:48 AM

!!!!!!!

filmgirlinterrupted

09-19-11, 01:49 AM

!!!!!!!

totally.

Austruck

09-19-11, 09:23 AM

And not just that... but during the scene with Walt and Walt Jr. early on... I kept thinking MAYBE my prediction that Walter is save-able could come true. When Walt Jr. told him that's when he thought he was "real," the look on Walt's face was priceless.

And of course, the fact that he broke down in front of Walt Jr. at all says it's indeed possible.

As I said earlier, the only thing that can pull Walt back at this point is his family. It still might not happen, but now I'm convinced that they're at least setting up the possibility, the dilemma, the quandary.

And yes, amazing ending to the episode! I can't believe I was skeptical about this season being any good after the first episode or so.

Wow.

ash_is_the_gal

09-19-11, 03:03 PM

I'm glad to see the Ted/Skylar subplot finally has a point.

ash_is_the_gal

09-20-11, 08:30 PM

http://i.imgur.com/4Qe9g.gif
omg. lol'ed so hard.

Austruck

09-20-11, 08:35 PM

ash_is_the_gal

09-20-11, 08:39 PM

so did i! about Princess Bride, that is. i was like, "ahhh so has Gus been building an immunity...?" haha.

Yoda

09-20-11, 09:15 PM

As soon as he said that (after Gus told him Jesse is an addict), I knew it was to keep Jesse from drinking the stuff because it was poisoned. Then, when GUS drank it, I immediately thought of "Princess Bride." :)
Same! I immediately thought of Vizzini.

"Never go up against a Chilean when DEATH is on the line!"

filmgirlinterrupted

09-21-11, 04:15 PM

When Gus was standing over the pool waiting for Don Eladio to come out of the house, he had a little pillbox in his hand and proceeded to take one of them. As soon as this happened, I knew what was going down.

The use of poison was an interesting choice. On the one hand, Walt gave Jesse the poison to use on Gus - tucked away in Jesse's "lucky cigarette." And when Jesse was playing that video game (I think it's called "Rage") a few episodes back, you can hear one of the characters in the video game say, "Don't touch that! It's poison!" Foreshadowing much?

Austruck

09-26-11, 12:07 AM

Tonight's episode JUST ended.

O. M. G.

And I thought LAST week's episode was epic!

O. M. G.

MovieMan8877445

09-26-11, 12:12 AM

I'm completely speechless at what to say about tonights episode. I didn't think they'd be able to top last week, but they did so.

I'm predicting that Gus will be dead by the end of the season. I don't think they can kill off Walt, and one of them is going to have to be gone by the end of the season.

Austruck

09-26-11, 12:16 AM

MM, agreed on all fronts. I too was wondering how they'd top last week's episode... but this one blew away every other episode this season.

Insanely great stuff tonight.

It's gonna be a LONG week.

MovieMan8877445

09-26-11, 12:21 AM

MM, agreed on all fronts. I too was wondering how they'd top last week's episode... but this one blew away every other episode this season.

Insanely great stuff tonight.

It's gonna be a LONG week.

I know, I was just saying that after it finished. I don't know how I'm going to last a whole week until the next episode.

Pyro Tramp

09-26-11, 10:34 AM

**** me. That was intense. Think that episode must have locked Cranston for another Emmy. The last episode is called 'Face Off' which I think suggests one of the 3 main characters is gonna be gone. I'm seeing the Gale situation happening again though, killing Jesse might be Walt's only way of securing his life, though whether Gus would stand for it again is pretty unlikely

ash_is_the_gal

09-26-11, 08:49 PM

oh my goddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
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Yoda

09-26-11, 08:51 PM

^that.

Austruck

09-26-11, 09:09 PM

Oh good! I'm so glad my general impression of that episode seems to be the same as everyone else's. That last scene with Walt and then Skyler made the entire season (or more)!

Is it really only Monday?? (sigh)

How many loose ends are there now? Walt/Gus ... Hank/Gus ... Jesse/Walt ... Ted ... Walt/family (both telling them and implementing the plan ... wow, it just keeps rolling along, worse and worse.

LOVE the momentum of this show.

MovieMan8877445

09-26-11, 09:23 PM

How can Ted be a loose end? Didn't he die in this episode?

Yoda

09-26-11, 09:28 PM

His body is a loose end. It looks incredibly suspicious that he wrote and mailed a check, then died right after. They're going to come poking around about that.

Austruck

09-26-11, 09:40 PM

I'm not including spoiler tags because the episode has aired, but feel free to add 'em, Yods, if this seems premature.

Yeah, the situation is a loose end. What gets investigated? We know he just slipped on the rug, but will that be soooo clear to authorities? He owes all this money all over the place. He probably has disgruntled employees who lost their jobs.

The Whites just don't need snooping around anything that touches their lives. No snooping. No questions. No nothing. And if Skyler up and disappears now, it just looks worse.

I forgot the entire situation with the $600K money that Walt THOUGHT he still had. Apparently whatever they DO have isn't quite enough to get away and start over too. Half a mil will go directly to the getaway guy and Sol/Saul (whichever way he spells it), so what do they really have left? Based on how big that baby is (and was at the end of last season), not that much time has passed, so he hasn't been amassing tons of money YET.

Oh, they are really in the soup now! LOVE IT.

Oh, BTW, I feel a bit vindicated that it seems to be as I thought: Threats to his family have jolted Walt back to reality and he's kicked into high gear to protect them all. Glad to see he wasn't ALL the way gone just yet! But still.... yikes. Will he have to take Hank and Marie with him? LOL

Yoda

09-27-11, 11:47 AM

I'm seeing the Gale situation happening again though, killing Jesse might be Walt's only way of securing his life, though whether Gus would stand for it again is pretty unlikely
Good point. And we're near enough to the end of the series that I would absolutely not rule out Walt killing Jesse because, just like with Gale, he sees it as the only way to get leverage. They could even do it the same way, with a shot of Walt holding the gun, looking into the camera, ending in black with a gunshot until next year.

Probably not, but it'd really be something.

Yoda

09-27-11, 11:57 AM

Oh, BTW, I feel a bit vindicated that it seems to be as I thought: Threats to his family have jolted Walt back to reality and he's kicked into high gear to protect them all. Glad to see he wasn't ALL the way gone just yet! But still.... yikes. Will he have to take Hank and Marie with him? LOL
Yeah, but he was only in that situation because he had to be a tough guy talking to Gus in the first place. He thinks about his family, sure...after his pride has blatantly put them in harm's way. Again.

That's pretty much the most hilarious thing about Walt right now: the vacillation between his badass self-image and the considerably less badass reality. One week he "IS the danger," the "one who knocks," and then Jesse's kicking the crap outta him. One second he's nervous as all get-out, the next he's looking Gus square in the eyes and saying "...or you'll do what?" The very next scene he's screaming and laughing at the situation that stupid macho question put him in. The guy just can't help himself.

That line ("...or you'll do what?") was such a striking example of Walt's need to feel like a tough guy no matter how stupid it is that Courtney actually started laughing out loud when he said it. And then she laughed again when he repeated it. It was just such a perfect microcosm of the last couple dozen episodes.

He had what he said he wanted: Gus had given him a way out! This is what he'd been trying to get for more than a season. But because it was done to him, because he was "fired" and--worse--supplanted by an estranged Jesse, he couldn't accept it. The whole point of his leverage was to get free of Gus, safely. But in that scene, he used leverage just because he had it.

Pride, pride pride. It's cometh-ing before a fall.

Yoda

09-27-11, 11:59 AM

Oh, anyone else notice The Bridge on the River Kwai playing in the background? Methinks that means a little something.

Great movie, too.

Austruck

09-27-11, 04:33 PM

Playing in the background when? Obviously I didn't notice it, but I wouldn't know when to look for it (since I always watch episodes twice).

You're absolutely right about Walt's hubris here. Although this felt like a bit of a shock to me (him not just saying OK to Gus's offer to get outta Dodge), of course we've seen him balk at a similar offer from Skyler when she realized the car wash was going to start turning a profit. He doesn't want to walk away from all the excitement and power and money.

His cackling at the end of the episode is just soooo very creepy and sad. It's like he's finally realized exactly where he's gotten himself (and his family) and he's thinking, "I am soooooo f*cked!" ... and the complete irony of it coupled with the hopelessness of his situation is making him laugh instead of cry. (Well, he DID cry briefly before he started cackling.)

Oh my... is it really only Tuesday? LOL

filmgirlinterrupted

09-27-11, 04:43 PM

Anna Gunn (Skylar) deserves MAJOR kudos for her acting in this episode. The look on her face when Walt asks her where the money went...that moment was so intense and you could just see her entire face change, realizing that she just f*cked up sooo bad. Brilliant.

Austruck

09-27-11, 05:08 PM

Totally agree, filmgirl! I could FEEL the awkwardness and discomfort and kept thinking how awful it must feel for her as she tried to explain her way out of it -- unaware of exactly what was happening but knowing that it likely involved running away and going into hiding.

That whole last scene was just perfection and evoked all the right emotions.

filmgirlinterrupted

09-27-11, 05:12 PM

Interestingly enough, if Skylar and Walt had communicated with each other none of this would have happened.

- Skylar should have told Walt about Ted's tax troubles and her concerns about her involvement.

- Walt should have told Skylar that things at "work" were starting to become unstable, so that she would know that the $7 million he was making was no longer guaranteed.

I just think that if they talked to each other, this mess with Ted could have been prevented and the Whites could make their escape.

Austruck

09-27-11, 05:32 PM

Ah yes, if only! But Walt would never admit to her that things were dangerous or volatile at work. She's asked him more than once about any danger and he's been clear that he IS the danger. (Oops, I guess he spoke too soon, eh?)

And she likely didn't want to dredge up anything concerning the man she had an affair with, now that other things seemed better.

I find it curious how smoothly Skyler has learned the ropes of lying and scheming. In many ways she's just as cold and calculating as Walt, with a little more forethought and a little less pride. Or perhaps she is just a lot more practical than he is. Her accountant nature is serving them well, for the most part. Even her solutions with Ted were actually fairly good ones and would likely have worked, despite Ted's constant stupidity at not going along with her offer.

So many misunderstandings here ... and yet they're all believable (unlike so many TV shows where you wanna shout at the TV, "WHY didn't you just say something??" Their silences toward each other on important topics seem perfectly believable.

Yoda

09-27-11, 05:33 PM

Playing in the background when? Obviously I didn't notice it, but I wouldn't know when to look for it (since I always watch episodes twice).
I believe it was playing when Gus went to visit Tio. The line that plays, and the character that says it, is pretty instructive:

"What have I done?"

Both Walt and that character become so focused on the mechanics of what they're doing that they lose sight what they're doing it for. They've victims of the same myopia that makes them so good at what they do on a technical level.

You're absolutely right about Walt's hubris here. Although this felt like a bit of a shock to me (him not just saying OK to Gus's offer to get outta Dodge), of course we've seen him balk at a similar offer from Skyler when she realized the car wash was going to start turning a profit. He doesn't want to walk away from all the excitement and power and money.
See, it was fun for me because I had the exact opposite reaction. The second Gus said "You're done," I started grinning because I knew Walt wasn't going to accept it.

It was such a culmination of all that he's become. Charity offered to him in season 1 to pay for his treatment? Too proud. Chance to quit after they narrowly survive Tucco? Nope. In fact, he actively goes looking for Gus and persists even when he's first told no. Quitting when he's hit $767,000, his magic number? No, and in fact he growls "Stay out of my territory" to another potential rival. And when Skyler hints that they might make enough legitimate money for him to quit, he scowls and changes the subject.

And now, he rejects yet another opportunity to get out safely. I'm pretty sure this one's going to have been his last.

His cackling at the end of the episode is just soooo very creepy and sad. It's like he's finally realized exactly where he's gotten himself (and his family) and he's thinking, "I am soooooo f*cked!" ... and the complete irony of it coupled with the hopelessness of his situation is making him laugh instead of cry. (Well, he DID cry briefly before he started cackling.)

Oh yeah. Very scary. That heartbeat-like sound in the background paints all sorts of things (like the laughter) in a very different light.

ash_is_the_gal

09-27-11, 07:21 PM

i don't know about anyone else, but i couldn't help but side with Walt when he went knocking on Jesse's door for help. he didn't deserve it, but man. i don't know if this was the intention, but i don't have a lot of sympathy left for Jesse right about now.

anyone else under the suspicion that Hank is already on to Walt? during the whole car accident sequence, i kept thinking that Hank didn't really want to go to that laundry as much as he wanted to observe Walt's reactions when he told him about his discoveries. it's very subtle, of course, but Walt has never been very good at hiding his true reaction to things, and i'm sorry, but that car swerve was so obviously deliberate, i honestly think Hank would have to be a moron not to have noticed.

i watched this episode twice, and the second time i watched it, the scene that happens directly after the car accident - when the fam is in Hank's room eating ice cream - made me feel pretty sad. i really think that may be the last time they are altogether on this series.

Austruck

09-27-11, 07:30 PM

Ash, you may be right. If Walt and family scatter and go underground, when would they be able to see each other again (except if Gus dies)?

One thing nobody here has mentioned about the option of Gus dying: What will all his VERY loyal underlings do? I mean, a lot of his employees seem devoted to him, and it doesn't all seem because of the money he pays them (although the doctor said "He pays my salary" when explaining to Jesse why he was working on Gus and not Mike). There seems to be enormous respect there toward Gus from all of them (mixed with a little fear, I'm sure).

What would they do if suddenly Walt (and Jesse?) were in charge? Would they rebel or stick around? I could easily see this season wrapping up with a dead Gus and the family out of immediate danger, and then the final season exploring the trouble Walt will get into (because you KNOW he will!) being the boss and trying to work out distribution and employee issues from that high up on the food chain, while also being the cook...

filmgirlinterrupted

09-27-11, 07:46 PM

anyone else under the suspicion that Hank is already on to Walt? during the whole car accident sequence, i kept thinking that Hank didn't really want to go to that laundry as much as he wanted to observe Walt's reactions when he told him about his discoveries. it's very subtle, of course, but Walt has never been very good at hiding his true reaction to things, and i'm sorry, but that car swerve was so obviously deliberate, i honestly think Hank would have to be a moron not to have noticed.

My guess is that on a subconcious level, Hank knows that Walt is his Heisenberg. At the same time though, I believe Hank is in denial. Remember that scene when Walt and Hank were looking through Gale's notebook and they saw the "W.W." - Hank made a crack suggesting that it stood for Walter White. This was a key moment, I think. Hank isn't as stupid as he looks.

Brodinski

10-01-11, 10:27 AM

Ok, I've finally caught up with you guys. Yes, I concur that the last episode was arguably the greatest ever in the series. Walt & Skyler's world has finally collapsed. I don't see how they can turn this around.

I personally think Walt has to make a choice between living or dying. When he said Jesse wouldn't have Walt getting killed, Gus replied "not yet, but he will". Couple that with how hostile Jesse was to Walt the last time they saw each other and I think it's pretty clear to Walt that he is going to die if he doesn't dissapear (not possible because they don't have the money to pay off Saul's guy) or go to the DEA. Of course, if he chooses the latter, Skyler will be incriminated as well. I don't think they'd buy a "it was all me" story. Maybe living like that (going to the DEA, followed by prison for him and possibly Skyler) isn't an option for Walt. Maybe he'll choose death, i.e. make a desperate attempt to kill Gus and be killed himself by Mike / Jesse / black dude.

i'm just thinking out loud here, but I can't fathom Jesse making a 180° turn and whack Gus. He has built up a certain relation with Mike, for whom he genuinely seems to care and he appears to love the new responsibility Gus has given him.

In my opinion, Walt is going to end up dead by the end of the season, because he can't handle with turning himself in. He's either going to get killed or kill himself.

Of course, we'll have to wait and see what happens, but I find it hard to imagine him crawling out of this hole he dug for himself with all his haughtiness and pride and urge to be recognized as "The Great Walter White".

It would be a gutsy move to kill off their main character, but would make perfect sense...

Yoda

10-01-11, 10:36 AM

Don't we sort of have to rule out Walt dying, since the last 16 episodes would be without the character the show is about? I mean, don't get me wrong, that'd be gutsy and crazy and they might even pull it off, but that's pretty close to unheard of. I'm tickled by the idea but I'd probably have to bet against it.

Jesse, on the other hand...

Anyway, I agree that Walt's eventual end is going to be ugly. And label me surprised (and still skeptical) about Jesse's loyalties. He's still hanging out with Andrea, so it's hard to believe he's actually forgotten what Gus has done and/or allowed to happen. I think there's another angle to what he's doing that we haven't seen yet.

Brodinski

10-01-11, 11:29 AM

The only thing I could imagine that would turn Jesse against Gus is if he left Mike to rot in Mexico. Jesse clearly cares for the old man. It's possible that Mike died in Mexico, but we don't know it yet. Jesse could blame Gus and kill him or the other way around...

Brodinski

10-01-11, 11:34 AM

Don't we sort of have to rule out Walt dying, since the last 16 episodes would be without the character the show is about? I mean, don't get me wrong, that'd be gutsy and crazy and they might even pull it off, but that's pretty close to unheard of.

Hmm, not completely unheard of. Stringer got whacked in The Wire and he was pretty much the main character of S3.

That's not entirely the same, as Walt's role in the series as a whole is bigger. Still, I couldn't believe Simon wrote him out off The Wire. To my impression, Cranston's character didn't have THAT much screentime in the second half of the season. It's more centered on Jesse, Gus and Mike. So I don't think it would be completely out of the question that Walt would be written out of the series. Right now, I think it would be the most credible ending to the season, but we'll see what the writers pull out of their top hat in the final two episodes.

Yoda

10-01-11, 12:05 PM

Good point, though you already said what I would say, which is that The Wire doesn't really have main characters, per se, and was constantly shifting emphasis. Walt's the impetus for the entire show here and the title itself even refers to him. Not saying it's impossible, and as I said I like the idea and always dig on bold theories, whether I think they'll happen or not.

Re: Jesse. Maybe I'm just way off on Jesse, but I still can't imagine he's really with Gus (not that you're saying he is). I feel like it'd take a lot more than a little fatherly approval from a pyschopath to make all that stuff with Andrea and her brother melt away. Especially since the show is taking pains to show us that he's still supporting Andrea and now even hanging out with her and her son. I think there's a reason they're showing us that.

There's definitely some conflicting evidence here, but I'll keep throwing my lot in with the idea that Jesse isn't really loyal to Gus. I do like the idea that he might be loyal to Mike, though, and that that might explain his hesitancy in a few instances. That might untangle some of the things we're seeing.

Brodinski

10-01-11, 12:26 PM

Could very well be that you're right. How long will this series continue running? Will season 5 be the last one?

Yoda

10-01-11, 12:30 PM

Sorta-kinda. There are 16 episodes after this season, though it's not been made clear whether or not that means a 16-episode season, two shortened seasons, or one long season with some kind of hiatus in the middle.

ash_is_the_gal

10-02-11, 05:47 PM

new ep in a few hours! yay!

(right after we watched this episode)
me: god, Gus is so... what's another word for cold?
James: freezing?

Yoda

10-02-11, 05:48 PM

Sunday nights are ridiculous. Breaking Bad, Dexter, The Simpsons, and we're going to give Homeland a try. It's almost a mercy that The Walking Dead (though I'm not nuts about it or anything) won't start until BB has wrapped up.

The lineup's gonna make the end of the weekend far more palpable.

MovieMan8877445

10-02-11, 06:18 PM

I hate that Boardwalk Empire, Dexter, and The Walking Dead is all coming on at the same time. It's stupid.

Yoda

10-02-11, 06:19 PM

I know! It's almost like the channels are trying to compete for our attention or something.

Pyro Tramp

10-02-11, 06:25 PM

You're lucky, I don't get it till I wake up. Wonder if it'll live up to the increasing perfection of the last few

MovieMan8877445

10-02-11, 06:57 PM

I know! It's almost like the channels are trying to compete for our attention or something.

I hate that AMC decided to move The Walking Dead to the nine slot so it could premiere that new show at the ten slot. Now I have three shows to watch at nine instead of two, and I don't even want to watch that new show.

Austruck

10-02-11, 07:18 PM

And the HBO series Hung starts back up tonight too.

I think the series The Sopranos first made Sunday night a TV night. (Trust me, it didn't used to be when channels put up their primo series.)

And now HBO debuts nearly all of its shows on Sunday nights. Showtime tends to like Monday nights ... but apparently the Sunday night thing has caught on with other channels as well.

At least we have a DVR now, and OnDemand. Plus, so many channels replay episodes throughout the week (which they didn't used to do years ago -- you had to wait and hope for summer reruns). The only dilemma is which shows to watch as they air and which ones to watch later...

I'm pretty sure we'll choose Breaking Bad to watch tonight as it airs. And if Dexter's on at 9, that'll be a shoe-in for us too. Hubby hasn't caught up with Boardwalk Empire or The Walking Dead yet, so I'll be watching those on my own when he's at work this week.

Pyro Tramp

10-03-11, 08:26 AM

Obvious spoilers if you've not watched the most recent episode, just in case.

Was a bit disappointed; Gus' move with Brock seemed to serve the narrative by pushing Walt and Jesse back together rather than being a legitimately wise move on his behalf.

I hope they're holding back something special for next episode because the ending of this one also fell flat. It felt a bit contrived him not getting into the car, there seemed to be no actual reason indicated that he wouldn't. Obviously he's very cautious but it seemed almost uncharacteristically so, sure he might be a bit funny about visiting Jesse in the hospital and that he hadn't killed Walt, if he knew. But otherwise it seemed like a perfectly reasonable cause of action for both parties and not one of those obviously awkwardly forced reasons you so often see that causes the third party to get spooked.

Loved seeing Walt crack out his chemistry kit again though!

Maybe it's just paling a bit after two fantastic episodes and hopefully an even better episode all that time away next week

ash_is_the_gal

10-03-11, 09:02 AM

yeah, i thought the same thing about Gus at the end, there. there was no obvious reason at all for him to suspect foul play in that parking garage.

is it definitely safe to assume it was Gus who poisoned Brock, then? i mean, it doesn't show Walt for the entire day, and that whole gun spinning scene seemed like foreshadowing of some sort, too. i dunno. it just doesn't seem like it'd be a smart move on Gus's part.

i hope we get some god damn answers next week!

Pyro Tramp

10-03-11, 09:21 AM

I think it terms of getting the season to go where it needs to, it probably is, since Gus said 'steps are being taken' that don't involve hitting Walt. They did make the poison in his lab, after all. I don't see it being Walt, though his argument for it being Gus did seem a bit too convincing. Saul, maybe, he had the opportunity with the pat-down but not really the motive, could just be a red-herring. Of course, it could just be Brock found it by mistake and it's that irony the show plays with, where everyone's on the precipice and something no-one instigated causes the topple. I'm wondering what the purpose of injuring Mike and having him off-screen a while is though.

Austruck

10-03-11, 10:51 AM

I was yelling at the TV at first too -- "Why did he stop?" -- but honestly, Gus is SO far ahead in his planning and so cautious (this is the guy who had blood ready to transfuse into himself, Mike, and even Jesse when they went to Mexico) that he easily could have seen in Jesse's reaction in the hospital exactly what we all saw: Jesse no longer trusts Gus. I saw it while they were talking in the hospital, and I wondered why Jesse wasn't trying to hide his obvious rising ire over Gus right in front of Gus himself.

There's no way Gus wouldn't have picked up on that.

Now, add on the cliche of walking back to your car parked all by itself in a parking garage, and flash back to every mobster movie and TV ever made. Heck, even I, a humble wife sitting in western Pennsylvania, mentioned out loud the cliche of Gus parking in a parking garage when he first came to the hospital. There's no way just the image of walking alone back to his own car, after having seen that Jesse was acting suspiciously, wouldn't send red flags up for Gus.

And he knows that, wherever Walt is, he's onto him and volatile and ready to strike back.

One last thing: I'm 99% sure it's Gus and not Walt. Walt wouldn't involve a child like that. And he's right that we know Gus would. Also, when Jesse told Gus on the phone that "we'll have a problem," Gus's response was a generic, "There will be an appropriate response."

That made me realize we didn't know WHO Gus was going to hit or how.

Gus wasn't ready to challenge Jesse's complete loyalty this early by killing Walt prematurely when he had other options to get Jesse's attention, but he left that hospital knowing Jesse was was onto him, or at least the possibility of him being involved in Brock's poisoning.

The only thing I didn't care for about it was that they used Walt's little speech on the floor with Jesse pointing a gun at him to EXPLAIN it all to us directly. I mean, I'm glad they did -- I wouldn't have figured out all the nuances right away without Walt spelling them out, but Walt just laid it all out there in a typical bad-Agatha-Christie-murder-mystery end-speech that felt forced.

At the beginning of the episode I said to my husband, "One of them is going down, Walt or Gus. And there's one episode left this season so I don't think it's today. And there's at least one more SEASON left so I don't think it's Walt. I think Gus goes down, next week."

He said, "This show's never promoted the concept that doing bad is all right or that you get away with it, so they could easily kill off Walt."

I said, "Just not THIS season."

"Then maybe Jesse?"

And we left it at that. But, I think we've got all the bowling pins in place for a big Walt-Gus showdown next week, with Jesse as a possible middle agent (although we're currently seeing him swing back to Walt a bit).

It definitely ended by making us feel as if there can only be one episode left this season, and as if one of the two bigwigs is gonna die.

Pyro Tramp

10-03-11, 11:10 AM

If one of them doesn't go by next week, it's gonna turn the majority of the last season into a revenge through murder plot and I think this show is better than that. The Shield did fantastically with a similar premise in it's final seasons though

I see your points on Gus walking away but maybe I missed it, Jesse's didn't seem to give enough away to encourage that. It seemed like it was a bit to manipulative on the audience.

Austruck

10-03-11, 11:15 AM

Ah, but again, Gus is savvy. And right about now, Gus is watching his back and keeping a close eye on Jesse because he's not sure which way Jesse will flip. He senses the ongoing loyalty Jesse has to Walt (whom he still calls "Mr. White," by the way), and he's been trying different tactics to crack that loyalty. All along the way, though, he's been keeping an eye on both Jesse and Walt to see how their relationship has been morphing.

His antennae are up. His senses are heightened. Add that onto a guy who's already ridiculously cautious, who preplans everything down to the last detail, and who works through all possible scenarios, and he'd already be wondering if a hit on himself might involve a car bomb. There's no way you're in that business and don't worry about starting your car every morning.

Austruck

10-03-11, 11:19 AM

As for the gun twirling by Walt in the beginning: I assumed that was just a Russian roulette for Walt, coupled with a little Spin the Bottle: Spin the gun, and if it points to himself, he'll just end it on his own terms and shoot himself. If it points outward, he'll try to kill Gus proactively instead.

I found it funny that it pointed to himself twice and he kept spinning it till it did what he wanted. It's clear he hasn't given up, despite having communicated that to Skyler while making her leave for safety without him.

Pyro Tramp

10-03-11, 11:27 AM

Yeah, I suppose you're right but in the short term, watching the episode it's seemed a bit of a cheap tactic, especially with Gus looking out for Walt. I'd have preferred it if there was at least some overt moment that made Gus realise. I picked up on the Mr White thing as well, a nice touch. I still don't see how poisoning Brock would have helped Gus though, it seemed a pretty long shot to make Jesse think it was Walt, plus the fall-back on him if it didn't work would have been a big shot on the foot for Gus and undermined everything he wanted from Jesse. There's no way Jesse, being the volatile young man he is, would stand by and work for Gus after that. Even the threat to Jesse of hurting someone HE cares about instead of Walt could have swung the table against Gus. I thinking more that it would be in keeping with the poetic irony if it was none of the key characters who poisoned Brock, much like the S2 plane crash and it was Jesse reluctant inaction that caused it.