Marijuana: Do you do it?

[Deadite]

Fixed. :)

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/6/21/60a236bb-adc4-4d1c-b444-0d9807c9e801.jpg

[Deadite]

You're missing the bigger picture, though. The community/state has fundamental services that it renders to everyone regardless of whether or not they can pay for it. If you do something that causes us to pay more money into those services than you should be taxed for it.

I get you. But I wasn't talking about taxation. I'm talking about what I read as an argument for keeping pot illegal based on user impairment physically endangering the general public.

So maybe I misunderstood Yoda's post. Dunno, I've got like three conversations going on and I'm high.

[Deadite]

i think what Yoda's trying to say is that most people in this thread don't actually feel, necessarily, that pot should be illegal. rather, it seems most people contributing are discussing/arguing about why it isn't legal, why it should be illegal, and also, what needs to be done if ever it were to become legal. a lot of people may be assuming that anyone who throws up a con against the legalization is also saying "weed is bad"; but they aren't, really. at least no one has said as much yet.

have they? :indifferent:

They said it with their minds, ash.

They said it with their MINDS. :eek:

[Sleezy]

Why so pissy?

I guess I assumed your post was relevant to the topic of legalizing marijuana. You now say it isn't. My bad.

Unless of course: "Sometimes, like in the case of fast food, the thing is harmful and finds its way into the hands of those who are dependent on others"

means exactly what you claim to not mean. Huh, you don't make no darn sense, bub.

Sounds like an appeal to protecting minors by keeping pot illegal to me. Hopefully not, because that would be a stupid argument.

You're not making sense. I don't make veiled arguments. If I thought what I said extended to marijuana, I would have said so.

So, anyway, are you for outlawing unhealthy stuff?

Am I for outlawing fast food? No, that's silly. But I do think companies like McDonald's should be a little bit more responsible about offering healthier options and refraining from marketing so heavily to children. That won't happen, though.

No, I'm saying I'd be happy to pay a tax myself that will pay for my cancer treatment when I get it from my decision to smoke.

Hmm. I'm not sure it would be as equal trade as that. And how could such a tax be enforced? People could just grow it in their yards.

Well seeing as Alcohol isn't going to be bannished anytime soon despite the thousands of deaths associated directly with its use each year, that presents quite the quandary.

Agreed. Like I said, alcohol is legal because it's always been a part of our culture and, for the past 100 or so years, has developed into a lucrative, controlled commodity that can't be separated from our economy. That still doesn't mean we wouldn't be better off without it.

[Deadite]

So your point doesn't apply to marijuana at all? Why are you even here then?

[Deadite]

Oh, are you?

http://i56.tinypic.com/331g6fc.jpg

Step inside.

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/5/19/who128557003388561995.jpg

[Deadite]

I once got into a life and death struggle with a bag of potatoe chips.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/5/4/129174421059457866.jpg

[Deadite]

Something I found fascinating to do while stoned was to look at yourself in the mirror. It's really quite intense to study yourself like that, deeply aware of your own body and how limited you are by it.

You can think these things all you want, too, when you're sober, but the feelings involved with that - at least for me - are so much more intense and profound when you're high. I cannot achieve anything like it when sober. That's why I said natural highs are not real highs.

But aren't you afraid you'll fall into your own eyes and not be able to get back out again??

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/5/28/ee88fc28-158b-484f-8854-44f1a59c6e36.jpg

[Deadite]

Don't worry, that last pic was, um, ironic...?

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/6/1/b468253b-2997-426e-98af-8d68f24a604f.jpg

[Deadite]

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/5/3/128858818191040898.jpg

[Deadite]

Seriously though, sexy, that last pic you posted really pushes the bounds of decency and good taste.

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/10/30/128699067504894661.jpg

tsk tsk

[Deadite]

pic posted pushes... hmm. Peter piper picked a peck of pickled peppers.

...Don't mind me. I'm trippin.

That's relevant to the topic, right?

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/7/2/128910177936801022.jpg

[Deadite]

You know, those remind me of something...

...!

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/12/27/129063820971748240.jpg

[Deadite]

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7492/martyo1nj4tw.jpg

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/5/28/d3992d40-2691-47c7-afc5-3c8d0d7f03ef.jpg

[Deadite]

Man, you're cool. Keep it up and I might start to crush on you...

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/10/11/128997452989337136.jpg

[Deadite]

:laugh:

Talk to you later, sexy.

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/5/17/okayokayi128554997252678339.jpg

[TONGO]

Ah! Judging by the past 12 posts some folks broke down and smoked a bowl.

[Sinny McGuffins]

Anyway, back on topic...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyRDce5ErnU

[KasperKristensen]

That is funny!

[mark f]

I suppose I'll screw up and not be so funny. I've just spent who knows how long reading through just today's posts here. Of the ones on topic, some I can totally relate to while others seem incredibly bizarre. What seems even more bizarre to me is that some of those posts have people agreeing with them. Anyway, I've smoked dope (I don't consider myself to be one) on and off since college. That's about 36 years. It mostly seems to depend on with which friends I hang out. I've gone several years w/o smoking it and never had anything resembling a craving. At this time though I am smoking it (not literally at this moment). This is the perspective I'm coming from.

Most of my teenage Mexican-American students have been doing dope for years, mostly through their own families. They don't see any way to make a living in mainstream America, but in Santa Ana or in Mexico, they know if they deal and belong to a gang, they can make a "nice living" (capitalism) by selling. Most of them drive a much-nicer car than I do, so what kind of hypocrite am I to preach to them? However, I do feel bad that they never had a chance to grow up and find out what other skills and loves they might have. It's not just drugs which make them grow up too soon. Many of them have kids and some have multiple kids, and they're still in high school. Whether or not this has anything to do with drugs, I'm not totally sure because I do know my students but some private matters I leave to themselves.

Now, I have a comment or two to make about these posts:

Natural highs don't exist -- at least, they're not really "highs". Never buy into that bologna about attaining something similar to a THC high (or something else) just by appreciating simple things -- a real high will always do more, in most cases. I don't mean to be bleak or downgrade natural living, but a "high" is more transcendent, or trippy, usually.

Not true, I started out getting high on life. I was a young man, living carefree, heedless of the consequences. Unfortunately, life turned out to be a gateway drug.

Cut to ten years later, I'm living in an alley and freebasing Jesus. But that's a story for another time.

As far as Sexy's comment, my personal experience with all highs is that the natural high is very transcendent. When I hike Upper Mariposa Grove at Yosemite and then finally get there, it's as great a high as I can think of. I get completely tingly, my mind and soul become one with the environment and those I'm with, and I feel and know things which I don't understand at almost any other time. The same thing happens when you accomplish other physical activities but that one is my personal fave.

I'm sorry about this, but being in love, at least when it's reciprocated, is just as much a high. The thing is that many people fall in love in an unreciprocated manner and then they crave the high part ("in love") but get totally depressed by the unreciprocated part. That's why so many people in love (on a high) choose suicide while "under the influence".

Relating to Deadite, I have another perspective on freebasing Jesus. I used to read the Bible a lot, with a small group of friends, while sitting outside on the green grass (no, not that kind). We would take turns reading and sharing. I also prayed a lot but I never did a group prayer with my friends because I believe that's a private thing. Adding into all of this, I would fast, sometimes for days at a time. Well, you combine all that together, along with lots of exercise, and see that your life is actually good and seems to be working out, and that's an incredible high. You can call it delusional, but if you do, then tell me any other high which isn't somehow similarly "delusional".

Now this is the point I actually wanted to share right here. I understand that it may cut both ways times two, but here goes.

Genesis 1

11: And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12: And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

29: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30: And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Interpret it how you will and take it for whatever you think it's worth.

[mark f]

It feels like exactly the same high, except you can breathe better. And I've never, ever, been paranoid when under the influence. I have friends who are but I just don't get that part of it. I have to keep telling them that the neighbors don't care, that police chopper isn't looking at you, etc. Thus far, I've always been correct about that.

By the way, I did smoke out in Upper Mariposa Grove, inside my fave Redwood, but that was only after we hiked up there and were naturally stoned. Trust me, I know a few things, whether you can relate to them or not. No, I'm not a used car salesman; I have nothing to sell.

[Deadite]

...You people are too introspective. :eek:

[DexterRiley]

i admit i havent read each and every page of this thread, so if its been posted already i apologize.

http://makeshiftrecords.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/americas-drug-war-the-lkast-white-hope-doc.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyuBuT_7I4

i really thought i'd might see a few reviews of this by now.

[mark f]

I admit that I'm full of it, Sexy. Your experiences are obviously every bit as real, honest and worthwhile as any of mine. I suppose I just wanted to to make sure my overemphatic voice was heard after spending what seemed like a couple of hours catching up.

[nebbit]

I don't think THC is any more harmful than alcohol. Less, even.
Both are bad if you use to much :yup:

[Brodinski]

I'll just give my own personal experience on the matter. I smoked it for the first time last year (age 21). It didn't do much for me. I inhaled it and all, but I didn't feel much different. My eyes started to burn for some time, but didn't notice anything else. I was already fairly intoxicated on alcohol though, that may have played its part. I didn't do it anymore after the one time. I wanted to experience it once and I did. I believe in looking after myself, both mentally and physically and any kind of smoking doesn't fit into that picture, so...

I have to say I've heard some horror stories about marijuana. A highschool friend of mine smoked every day. It got so bad that he confessed to me he couldn't sleep anymore without smoking it. At times during school, he actually felt like he needed it and smoked some in the school's toilets. I don't know if he's still doing it. We lost track of each other after high school.

[Golgot]

Great posts Marky and Sexy. Just goes to highlight how individually we can all react to psychotropics (and hey, general experiences too ;))

I think that's why ganja is such a popular passtime, in that it can provide a different 'hit' to different people, and in different circumstances. You can use it to get hyped up, chill out, giggle & talk nonsense, scan your own thoughts introspectively, etc etc.

I could see how a mixture of awe-inspiring scenary and a good ole exercise/achievement dopamine hit could feel like some of the highs I've had on ganj. But it's clear that Sexy's seeking out something else from it. I think I might have used it in a similar way at some points, in that it made me 'feel more' in my teens, amongst its various effects.

Oh and @Brod, I've been that fella too (the one who used ganj to sleep and would sneak smokes in thoroughly inappropriate places throughout the day [Including on the Belgian border once while waiting to clear passport control ;)]). Don't worry, most get their heads straight again, one way or the other :)

[Deadite]

Most people depend on something for their happiness, except maybe some zen buddhist or something. And maybe not even them.

Addictive people, people with emotional problems, ect. these people may find weed helps them to get through the day.

It's no different than people who need their religion to cope, or valium, or food, or anything really. Of course people cling to whatever relieves stress, even if it's all they know. That doesn't change the fact that it shouldn't be anyone else's business, and certainly shouldn't be a crime. (not saying anyone here is saying that)

We can point to horror stories and extreme cases with practically anything people do/use. Yes, there are very destructive drugs, heroin, crack. But if you're gonna tell me weed is even close to those, I'll laugh in your face. It's not.

[Deadite]

Well, then a Zen Buddhist is depending on his zen buddhism for happiness. :)

Oh, I don't know. Maybe at first. But from I understand of it, the buddhist would train his mind to not depend on subjective states so much.

Probably, yes. Seems that way so far. Correct me if I'm wrong, anybody. Of course, there's also the people who use it for pain.

I'm sure there are many examples I left out, hence my lazy little ect. :)

[nebbit]

Yes, there are very destructive drugs, heroin, crack. But if you're gonna tell me weed is even close to those, I'll laugh in your face. It's not.
Must tell that to my Ex who does court reports :yup: he has seen a really significant rise in violent acts due to "WEED" use in the last ten years :yup: he finds it very worrying :(

[Deadite]

Must tell that to my Ex who does court reports :yup: he has seen a really significant rise in violent acts due to "WEED" use in the last ten years :yup: he finds it very worrying :(

Nonsense.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

[John McClane]

It's number 3. It's also called the War on Drugs.

[Deadite]

You know, I have a sneaking suspicion that all kinds of people smoke weed. :yup:

[Deadite]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glx2QG9AI94

[Godoggo]

This one I find the most likely -- it's not so much the marijuana, as its the marijuana culture. Possibly related to gangs and maybe rappers that endorse marijuana, gun violence, men that hang out with emotionally disturbed other men that worship the bad aspects of marijuana culture, the marijuana = money culture, with thugs and
gangs

That's what I'd put my money on.

[ollanik]

7 or 8 joints per day since end of 2007

[Sedai]

Yikes. That sounds expensive and damaging.

[ollanik]

not really expensive,because my good friend gave it to me 80 grams for price of 5 grams

[Sedai]

Sounds like Shwag. Seriously damaging to your lungs, man! Also, diminishing returns? By the fifth joint, you just have to be pretty much brain dead...

[Yoda]

Yeah, that's...a lot.

But at least now we know why he has Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle in his top ten.

[ash_is_the_gal]

yes, only a pothead could love a movie about potheads. just like i must be French because i love Amelie.

[Yoda]

I don't think being French would cause anyone to like Amélie more. I do think stoner comedies are generally funnier to stoners, though. Particularly if they're stoned while watching it.

But it was a joke, anyway.

[ash_is_the_gal]

so was mine!

[Deadite]

I like french fries.

When I'm high.

[Deadite]

I don't think being French would cause anyone to like Amélie more. I do think stoner comedies are generally funnier to stoners, though. Particularly if they're stoned while watching it.

But it was a joke, anyway.

Join us, Yoda. We can watch Half-Baked together and eat cookie dough ice cream.

http://stash.norml.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/jim-breuer.jpg

[linespalsy]

I prefer Freedom Fries, Freedom Kisses, Freedom Poodles, Freedom Filosophers, and Freedom Movies to their French analogues. Absynthe? That's the beverage of choice for Freedom Artistes.

[Deadite]

Aaaw, sexy. You sweety.

[Deadite]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD4Kdd3STJM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD4Kdd3STJM)

I think E.T. touched me too, but I mostly blocked it out.

Or maybe I was high.

[nebbit]

Nonsense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
What :eek: u think I made it up? :rolleyes:

[DexterRiley]

I like french fries.

When I'm high.

Are they back?

Wan't sure if Freedom Fries were still in Vogue down there.

Also, firing up the Vapourizer.

:D

[ollanik]

When i was high while watching Inland Empire, i was scared and paranoid...that movie is really challenge for stoners,just like every Lynch movie...i like to watch movies high,that is like some special effect :)...comedies,horrors,fantasy and sci-fi are the best movies for that...when i am high and watch 2001 A Space Odyssey from 1968,i fell like i am there with them in space...also Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas from 1998 is movie that only high person can watch and enjoy :)

[Deadite]

Are they back?

Wan't sure if Freedom Fries were still in Vogue down there.

Also, firing up the Vapourizer.

:D

Dude, they're like the McRib or Highlander, they can never really die...unless you cut their head off.

But that doesn't make any sense. :goof:

[ollanik]

I agree with you,Sexy Celebrity...when you are stoned and watch some film,you can concentrate on film 100 percent,like your there with them in a movie...you can forget all other things...just like you sad,you go deep into film

[nebbit]

Dude, they're like the McRib or Highlander, they can never really die...unless you cut their head off.

But that doesn't make any sense. :goof:
You didn't answer my question :mad:

[Deadite]

You didn't answer my question :mad:

Keen observation. :highfive:

[Deadite]

Deadite, be nice to Nebbit. She's a lovely woman and she supports large breasts.

With her back?

[nebbit]

With her back?
Need to cut down :yup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBIEMf0MwGg&feature=related

[DexterRiley]

I am a long time Supporter of large breasts.

[Deadite]

Well, I can get behind large breasts anytime.

[Sinny McGuffins]

Which movie do you think I should watch stoned... The Graduate, The Birds or Singin' in the Rain?

[Deadite]

The Birds, man.

[Deadite]

Need to cut down :yup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBIEMf0MwGg&feature=related

Cool song. Cut down? Are you getting breast reduction surgery? :(

[ollanik]

Friday,Soul Plane,Monty Python,Harold and Kumar,Jay and Silent Bob,Little Man,Ally G...thous epic films are best comedies while your stoned...i cannot wait for Sasha Baron Cohen s Dictator in 2012...i can see that it will be epic film to watch stoned

[John McClane]

If they're only epic when you're stoned then they're not epic. Hell, sometimes even epic films are not epic when you're stoned. That's the whole point of it, I think. It personally allows me to either a.) rediscover things for the first time or b.) rediscover what I felt when I experienced those things for the first time, and as I'm a sucker for nostalgia you can obviously see the appeal. :D

[mark f]

First off, to answer the thread's question - I'm about to do it.

Second, The Graduate is awesome stoned. Obviously the best film is the best stoned. Uh oh, now some "expert" is going to tell me my own business. :cool:

[John McClane]

I did and doing it again. ;)

@SC: Yeah, this past Christmas I watched The Beauty and the Beast with a roaring fire and the atmosphere was just right that it felt like Christmas when I was a kid. I mean, the EXACT same feeling. Pretty awesome, if you ask me.

[ollanik]

Really,movies can easy fascinate me when i am high...Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas is film made only for stoned people

[ollanik]

I am so stoned right now...and i don t know what to watch

[Deadite]

You should Watch oeffoe1veovneo

http://www.blogginghigh.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/blogginghighcom-trippy.gif

[ollanik]

I have paranoia almost always when i am high first 10 minutes...but after 10 minutes,state that Sexy Celebrity (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=722) described begins

[Deadite]

I have paranoia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbk2GIp9M9I

[ollanik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D091idBiieY

[ollanik]

best thing...smoke weed and watch through telescope

[earlsmoviepicks]

When I was in college, my favorite thing to do after smoking was to get a head of lettuce, gather together all the condiments/ingredients in the fridge, experiment wrapping different combos in a leaf, and eat it, one leaf at a time. I wasn't a very philosophical stoner....

[Deadite]

lol

[Sedai]

I dunno, it never affected me in a way like that, where I would act strange and do questionable things. I am just me, but a little bit hungrier and kinda spaced out. I still like the things I like, listen to the music I like etc.

*Shrugs*

[Deadite]

I was weird and goofy before I smoked weed... :goof:

[ash_is_the_gal]

fun factoid: i told my boyfriend i want to watch Mommie Dearest with him this weekend, even though he'll hate it, probably. he said when he looked it up, it was on some "films to watch when high" list, which sounds like it could be either a horrible or amazing experience.

[Sedai]

Not sure I would want to watch that abuse in that state!

BUT I MIGHT AS WELL TRY IT!!!

Muhahahahahahahahaha

[Deadite]

Tee hee. :drevil:

[Deadite]

http://sfist.com/attachments/SFist_Brock/peahesandheklina.jpg

[Deadite]

Yeah, Mommie Dearest has got to be completely nightmarish while high. You'll probably feel like Joan Crawford is actually yelling at you.

That's the one where she beat her kid with coat hangers, or something? I vaguely remember...

[Deadite]

Oh I love that movie!

[Deadite]

I think maybe partly what makes stuff like movies seem more fresh and new and vibrant on weed is because while you're stoned, you sort of forget your judgments for awhile. You just see.

[Deadite]

No, it's not a way to always be, but it's a great stress relief option to have.

[Deadite]

Personally, I think too much of any drug basically kills your consciousness. They fragment you and you lose your core identity, your ability to process, to retain information and memory.

I'm not one for that whole "drugs as a gateway to enlightenment" BS that people like Leary promoted. They can assist you in that, but it's not as simple as just swallowing or snorting or smoking something to get you into a nondual state.

[ash_is_the_gal]

Deadite, who the eff are you talking to?

[Sedai]

Sexy was replying but he's deleted his posts for some reason. I can still see them, but most members will not be able to...

[ash_is_the_gal]

either somebody has me on ignore, or they deleted their posts. either way, this thread just got confusing. and i'm a total goody two shoes, so i'm definitely not high.

[ash_is_the_gal]

oh.

:(

[Deadite]

What's going on in here? :confused:

[Deadite]

Sexy was replying but he's deleted his posts for some reason. I can still see them, but most members will not be able to...

Ugh, I hate when people do that.

[John McClane]

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.

[Deadite]

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.

I concur.

[KasperKristensen]

Let's all take a step back, take a drag or sip of our substance of choice, be it coffee or tea, tobacco or marijuana, and take in the feel of this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akvu1AOnUIw

That's pretty much all I ever wanted to say about the subject.

[ash_is_the_gal]

no.

[KasperKristensen]

I'm in too mellow of a mood to go into this but it really is a great song regardless of debate... If you get me. ;)

Peace and love :cool:

[ash_is_the_gal]

pothead.

[ash_is_the_gal]

actually, i'd listen to it, but i'm trying to make a mix and make it flow correctly at the moment!

[KasperKristensen]

Alright, alright. This is going right on the playlist I listen to when I draw and stuff. Draw a great Angel yesterday.

[KasperKristensen]

I'm not even kidding! xD

[rufnek]

best thing...smoke weed and watch through telescope

Which end of the telescope? Or does it matter?

[mark f]

It certainly mattered to me which end. You can't see jack through the wrong end, no matter how stoned you are.

[nebbit]

Which end of the telescope? Or does it matter?
:laugh:

[ollanik]

When you are high you must watch film Cube,and Hypercube,the second part is even better...

[phatrat1982]

No I do not smoke pot nor do I drink or do any other drugs of any sort good or bad. I never have and I never will. I don't judge those who do as long as they leave me alone and don't judge me for not.

[smudgedude]

i've tried it a few times, and it's certainly an experience, but it's not one i want to have with any regularity.

[akatemple]

I used to all the time, but then it started giving me panic attacks, I guess because of the paranoia. So I just stopped and haven't touched it or missed it for years.

[ollanik]

No I do not smoke pot nor do I drink or do any other drugs of any sort good or bad. I never have and I never will. I don't judge those who do as long as they leave me alone and don't judge me for not.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_GG7mioDOs4s/TNVKsgGj9wI/AAAAAAAAAyY/5jpFURFcwb4/s1600/applause.gif

[under0ath777]

I haven't tried marijuana. i wanted to smoke some for a long time but i know no dealer in our place.:D

[ollanik]

I haven't tried marijuana. i wanted to smoke some for a long time but i know no dealer in our place.:D

Just search a little and you will find him :)

[mikey]

Used to do it
Not against it
Would love to see it used again for textiles and put more farms to work
Still grows wild in Kansas (K-weed) but is not good for medicinal (ok -getting stoned)
I would rather have a stoned driver than a drunk driver ,but my preference would be neither .

[filmgirlinterrupted]

California's the place to be, if you know what I mean :D

[ollanik]

I am so high,and i am going to watch a cartoon...

[Monkeypunch]

I feel like a hypocrite about my anti-marijuana stance on here, as I have learned, there are worse things to take.

I figure smoke em if you got em, it won't hurt you.

[ollanik]

Ponyo,anime,i will watch that now,i heard it is great while high.

[ollanik]

Weed!!

[ollanik]

is there any treat about universe?

[rufnek]

Just search a little and you will find him :)


Just remember there's a good chance he's a narc; and if not a narc, there's an even better chance he'll tell a narc about you to keep from going to jail himself. If you're gonna do crime, do it for something that will give you better return without as much risk for getting caught. Bank robbers--the successful ones anyway--seldom keep coming back to the same bank, but pushers have to be available for their customers, and if you know where they're located, so do the narcs. The only offenders with a higher risk rate are kidnappers who have to tell someone where to leave the money after the crime.

[urkillinmesmalls]

What is this...Woodstock? Do I look like some kind of hippy? (Don't answer that. :rolleyes:)

[ollanik]

What is this...Woodstock? Do I look like some kind of hippy? (Don't answer that. :rolleyes:)

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/applause.gif

[ollanik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

[Yoda]

Does ollanik only post in this thread when he's already high?

[Sinny McGuffins]

I am so high,and i am going to watch a cartoon...

Ponyo,anime,i will watch that now,i heard it is great while high.

Weed!!

is there any treat about universe?Probably...

[ollanik]

LOL

Im trying to keep this thread alive...last clip i posted is really cool,especially when your high

[Sinny McGuffins]

Ollanik, you can embed YouTube videos, you know. Just type [ youtube ]LINK HERE[/ youtube ] but without the spaces.

[ollanik]

Ollanik, you can embed YouTube videos, you know. Just type [ youtube ]LINK HERE[/ youtube ] but without the spaces.


Thanks,i was wondering how to embed video in this forum,but i did not know where to ask.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

[ollanik]

:)

[Sinny McGuffins]

Thanks,i was wondering how to embed video in this forum,but i did not know where to ask.... [youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U)You're welcome, but you left a space and the last bracket needs to looks like this [/ youtube ] but again without the spaces.

I'll cut you some slack since you're probably high. ;)

[under0ath777]

What does it feel like when your high?

[ollanik]

What does it feel like when your high?

It depends...if you concentrate enough,all you do seems 10 times more beautiful than it is...that means,for example,lets say,you watch the movie and you can go deep into movie,movie seems the best of all other movies,like this is the only movie in the world or you look at the stars and think like universe is so mysterious,i wonder how it is in other planets,other solar system,galaxies or go even further thinking about other dimensions,what was before big bang and all those stuff...you can think about good memories with friends,girls,family and feel really great with thous thoughts....best thing is to get high in the park with your friends,nature,on the beach or just alone in your room watching movies and stuff...most people like to get high on the parties,but i don't,i prefer park,hood,nature,beach,room...bad side of getting high is when you start thinking about problems or any bad things...when you just for a second start to think about even the smallest problem that you have,you will start to think about all problems that you have and even problems that you can have,or even some that you can't ...and all off those problems seem 20 times bigger than they really are...just like everything can seem so beautiful,everything can seem just as equally bad...you also start to think that everyone look at you,real bad paranoia's...but since i smoked a lot of joints since September 2007,that bad trips are past for me,now i just don't get upset about anything,i am not saying that its good,i just don't care ...weed ride you or you ride weed...there is no third option...

[under0ath777]

you look at the stars and think like universe is so mysterious,i wonder how it is in other planets,other solar system,galaxies or go even further thinking about other dimensions,what was before big bang and all those stuff

dude, that's sounds unsound. I've seen some of my classmates get high while in class. Those loonies they were rowing an imaginary boat.

[Exist]

It makes me paranoid, tried to build up a tollerance at one time and perhaps did partly, but I'd need to start all over again as too much time has elapsed since last use. It's illegal here anyway, I'll just drink.

[ollanik]

It makes me paranoid, tried to build up a tollerance at one time and perhaps did partly, but I'd need to start all over again as too much time has elapsed since last use. It's illegal here anyway, I'll just drink.

Its illegal everywhere except Holland and Czech republic...maybe somewhere else also...

[Exist]

Its illegal everywhere except Holland and Czech republic...maybe somewhere else also...
Didn't know it was so internationally illegal. I wonder how the punishments compare in, say, italy as opposed to the u.s.a. or, for that matter, an african dictatorship as opposed to the u.s.a.?

[*Scout*]

I have tried it a few time at parties, but it really didn't do much for me at all. I can take it or leave it.

[ollanik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

EDIT: Finally :)

[DexterRiley]

if you are experiencing bad trips whilst smoking weed, you are doing it wrong.

[earlsmoviepicks]

I can also be very scary if your smoking strong stuff. I tried to take my pants off over my head, and then attempted to drink the waterbed....



What does it feel like when your high?

[ollanik]

I can also be very scary if your smoking strong stuff. I tried to take my pants off over my head, and then attempted to drink the waterbed....

Are you sure that it was weed?

[Warren'sShampoo]

Just out of curiosity...and for some debate..

i think most of you are intelligent people and I'm trying to survey as many areas of my life concerning this subject to see how common it really is..so if you've done it..even just once lend me your thoughts...

what are your thoughts on marijuana...okay not okay?

what about historical uses.....

seriously..should marijuana be a normal part of our lives?

all of your responses will be appreciated!
I've have never used it or touched any drug, tobacco product, or drop of alcohol, nor do I endorse any such use. However, for reasons of personal freedom, moral consistency (alcohol and tobacco are drugs, too), fiscal sanity, and the dissipation of drug-related gang violence, I believe in legalizing all non-steroidal/HGH drugs.

[Ronemara]

I smoke, but I don't do it too often. When the opportunity arises, sure. But, I don't scout out weed.

[ollanik]

Go to high school
Go to school high

[nebbit]

Go to high school
Go to school high

What again :rolleyes:

[FanaticFilmFan]

I smoke...but only a bowl before bed. It calms my thoughts that run wild in my head when trying to dose off. I honestly can't say that its safe but I will say it is my opinion that it is much safer than alcohol...which I also partake in. When I have to much alcohol I'm a danger to myself and others, when I smoke to much weed the only thing in danger is a bowl of captain crunch.

[ollanik]

lol

[Sedai]

Mmmmmm - Captain Crunch

[lundy1026]

So far I'm guess i'm the only no in here. I dont have a problem with people who do, I know it's just a personal choice. Also, I agree it's safer than alcohol ( Which I also do not drink ). Lol, I'm 21 and people are often surprised when I tell them I havn't had my first leagal drink yet. Been there done that ( IN HIGHSCHOOL ) and didn't like the effects. Like I said, nothing wrong with those who do, infact I have many friends who do. Just not me. :)

[FanaticFilmFan]

Good for you lundy1026, you realized it wasn't for you and you stick to your guns. Alot of people give in and partake just because most of their friends do it. Much respect.

[lundy1026]

thanks! :)

[Deadite]

What again :rolleyes:

Why you askin questions in this thread? You a cop?

[nebbit]

Why you askin questions in this thread? You a cop?
:nope: just bored :bored:

[Deadite]

:nope: just bored :bored:

A likely story!:suspicious:

[nebbit]

A likely story!:suspicious:
Oh Pleeeze I am a Mental Health Nurse http://www.myemoticons.com/images/work-school/medical/psychologist.gif

[Deadite]

Oh Pleeeze I am a Mental Health Nurse http://www.myemoticons.com/images/work-school/medical/psychologist.gif

So it's true. You are one of them. :eek:

[Sedai]

You do know one of our mods is police officer, right Deadite?

<------And this mod smokes....

I have no fear of being arrested.

[Deadite]

You do know one of our mods is police officer, right Deadite?

<------And this mod smokes....

I have no fear of being arrested.

OMFG :eek:

[nebbit]

So it's true. You are one of them. :eek:
:yup:

[John McClane]

Why you askin questions in this thread? You a cop?

A likely story!:suspicious:

So it's true. You are one of them. :eek:

OMFG :eek:Paranoid much?

[Deadite]

Paranoid much?

1. Who's asking?
2. What if I am?
3. What were we talking about?

[Brodinski]

1. Who's asking?
2. What if I am?
3. What were we talking about?

In general, one of the most consistently reported behavioral effects of marijuana in humans is disruption of free recall and other memory processes

Source: Heishman, S.J., Arasteh, K., & Stitzer, M.L. (1997). Comparative effects of alcohol and marihuana on mood, memeory, and performance.
Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior, 58(1), 93-101.

[Deadite]

Indeed.

[Deadite]

This thread is edumucational! :yup:

[ollanik]

This threat is epic :)

[HitchFan97]

So far I'm guess i'm the only no in here. I dont have a problem with people who do, I know it's just a personal choice. Also, I agree it's safer than alcohol ( Which I also do not drink ). Lol, I'm 21 and people are often surprised when I tell them I havn't had my first leagal drink yet. Been there done that ( IN HIGHSCHOOL ) and didn't like the effects. Like I said, nothing wrong with those who do, infact I have many friends who do. Just not me. :)

Lundy, I guess I'll be the second no as well. It's not something I ever plan on doing, but hey, if you do that's your business. I'll never use it, though I do think it should be legalized for issues of personal freedom.

[John McClane]

Well, I figure it's time ya'll heard about the following: I've been charged with unlawful possession of marijuana, so I'll be losing my license for 6 months. :up: :indifferent:

[Kitsch]

I have never smoked anything, not even a single puff of a cigarette.

[John McClane]

My sympathies.Eh, I don't give a s***, to be honest. I do think it's rather laughable that the license suspension is automatic, and required by law, regardless of what you were doing. I could have been sitting on a bench in the park and I would still lose it.

[John McClane]

It's a way to make you suffer. You can't get around by yourself.Yup, no one was getting hurt until the government stepped in. ;)

I'll be able to get a restricted license for work and such, of course. The public transportation system is pretty good in my city, too.

[Harry Lime]

Well, I figure it's time ya'll heard about the following: I've been charged with unlawful possession of marijuana, so I'll be losing my license for 6 months. :up: :indifferent:

How'd you get busted? If you don't want to explain here I understand. I've got quite a few entertaining stories of near misses and one where I didn't get away from back when I was a teenager. One also incriminates a fellow Mofo...damn Pizza 73!

It's unfortunate your getting burned like that, if this would've happened here in Vancouver they would have taken it and sent you on your way.

Oh yeah, and I think I mentioned this in this thread before but I haven't smoked weed for three years now, after smoking for 10 of the previous 15 years. No problems quitting at all, maybe a night or two where it took me longer to fall asleep, but that's always been a problem for me. So the "habit" wasn't even much of a habit to break, much less any addiction, and anyone who says that in regards to the negative effects of weed don't know what they're talking about. And I was smoking the best, most narcotic, highest THC count weed in the world. The smell kinda makes me sick now, though.

[nebbit]

Sorry to hear that Matt :(

[quint]

No.

[ollanik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys8AkwMRvgo

This is a must watch when you are high.

[Deadite]

Yup, no one was getting hurt until the government stepped in. ;)

I'll be able to get a restricted license for work and such, of course. The public transportation system is pretty good in my city, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycAByDNZYrA

[John McClane]

Amen, brother. I'm on probation until April.

[Deadite]

Amen, brother. I'm on probation until April.

Keep your head up, bro. :yup:

[Brodinski]

Oh yeah, and I think I mentioned this in this thread before but I haven't smoked weed for three years now, after smoking for 10 of the previous 15 years. No problems quitting at all, maybe a night or two where it took me longer to fall asleep, but that's always been a problem for me. So the "habit" wasn't even much of a habit to break, much less any addiction, and anyone who says that in regards to the negative effects of weed don't know what they're talking about. And I was smoking the best, most narcotic, highest THC count weed in the world. The smell kinda makes me sick now, though.

Lime, you are dead wrong. Just because you haven't had trouble quitting does not mean that marijuana isn't addictive.

What is known for certain is the following:

Marijuana dependency is the # 1 cause of addictions with adolescents
Using marijuana increases your chances of developing schizophrenia
Using marijuana doubles the chance of psychosis
Using marijuana is especially detrimental to your body and mind if you start using is before the age of 18.
If you are genetically more sensitive to marijuana, then your reaction to it will be about 10 to 15 times stronger. I've read recent testimonies from Flemish university professors who claim that of all adolescents who are diagnosed with psychosis, 60 to 80 % of those cases are caused by marijuana.

I didn't know this myself until a couple of years ago, but there's a substance in marijuana that puts a brake on feelings of anxiety and has an antipsychotic effect. I can't remember the name of that substance right now... Anyway, the important thing here is that the amount of that substance in one plant always remains the same. The problem nowadays is that the marijuana plants that are grown today are much more powerful, i.e. contain much more THC. This again leads to a higher chance of psychosis, schizophrenia and concentration problems.

The mistake that lots of people make is thinking that it had no detrimental effects on them, so what harm could it do to others? I like to rely on facts rather than personal experiences.

[John McClane]

So wait, the plant has anti-psychotic effects but causes psychosis? Um...you do understand you just proved yourself wrong, right?

And no, none of that stuff is known for certain. I haven't seen an ounce of data to back it up, so I fail to understand why people keep saying this stuff. The only thing we know for certain is psychotics use marijuana...but what we're not told is why do they use it? My guess is it helps them. Ever considered that one?

[Sedai]

Ah, so if it's factually addictive, Lime got the DTs and almost died? Oh wait...

That's because it ISN'T physically addictive...at all. Please stop saying addictive, using the correct terms instead, which are habit-forming or behavior-modifying. If someone was using an actual addictive substance, like say alcohol, for 15 years in a fairly hard core manner, as Lime claimed with his pot use, there would have been serious, if not fatal physical consequences.

[Oktober]

I think that some of the skunk that's been around for a while is too powerful. Of course, I don't indulge these days. ;)

[Brodinski]

So wait, the plant has anti-psychotic effects but causes psychosis? Um...you do understand you just proved yourself wrong, right?

Um... no I didn't. I did some research and found the name of the substance: cannabidiol. I will explain myself once more, as your reading comprehesion skills appear to be sub-par. The cannabidiol has an antipsychotic effect, in addition to it causing you to relax and putting a brake on feelings of anxiety. The functional amount of cannabidiol in one plant is always the same. In the past, this substance would act as a major counterpole to the THC (the substance that causes psychoses, schizophrenia). So yes, the plant contains a substance that has anti-psychotic effects and a substance that causes psychoses.

The problem is that the amount of THC in a plant today has increased fivefold or even tenfold. This means that the counteracting effects of the cannabidiol are lessened by the comparatively huge amounts of THC.

And no, none of that stuff is known for certain. I haven't seen an ounce of data to back it up, so I fail to understand why people keep saying this stuff.

Really? Not an ounce?


Recent studies have focused on gene-environment interactions involving COMT
Val158Met rather than genotypic main effects. These studies focused on the Val allele, providing evidence of synergism between the Val allele and exposure to cannabis in the causation of psychosis; carriers of the Val allele were most likely to exhibit psychotic symptoms and to develop schizophreniform disorder years after the initial exposure to cannabis in an epidemiological study (Caspi et al., 2005). Val carriers were also found to display more psychotic experiences in reaction to cannabis use in an experimental challenge study (Henquet et al., 2006) and an experience-sampling study

Allele = gene.

Source (http://arno.unimaas.nl/show.cgi?fid=9515#page=59)

And some more:

C

annabis is the most widely used illicit drug in the world, but it is not wholly free from potentially harmful side effects (Ashton 2002; Iversen 2003). Worldwide evidence documents that cannabis use is a modest statistical risk factor for the emergence of psychosis, ranging from psychotic symptoms such as hallucinations and delusions to clinically significant disorders such as schizophrenia. Prospective studies estimate that cannabis use is associated with a twofold increase in later schizophrenia outcomes, and early, adolescent-onset cannabis use is associated with a higher risk (Arseneault et al 2004), possibly because individuals who begin to use cannabis when the brain is still developing are most vulnerable to its deleterious effects (Ehrenreich et al 1999; Pistis et al 2004; Pope et al 2003; Schneider and Koch 2003).

Source (http://www.ukcia.org/research/young/COMTgene.pdf)

And in that study (as you can see above), numerous other studies are referenced that scientifically prove that marijuana can cause psychosis, psychotic symptoms and if you start using it at a young age, you're more susceptible to psychosis and schizophrenia.

[John McClane]

First off, my primary point is that cannabis has numerous positive affects on brain receptors, even causing the growth of new neurons. Even if there was a direct connection between cannabis and brain damage, which there isn't, the plant heals and protects the brain at the same time. Of course, there are naturally people that don't see such results but that doesn't warrant banning the substance. Some people see no benefits from aspirin, SSRIs, and other medications yet we haven't outlawed them. In fact, most of those pills cause more irreparable damage, which HAS been proven, than alcohol or cannabis. (Fun fact, btw, heavy alcohol use is about 4-5 times more likely to cause psychosis, whereas cannabis is, as you say, only twice as likely).

Those substances are pushed onto the general public as the only solution to their problem and they're not given a choice for alternative treatments, such as cannabis use. Would you be in favor of outlawing those options and only allowing cannabis for medical treatments? I don't think you would.

You've got two studies that don't give any direct connection between cannabis use and psychosis. That doesn't count as certain evidence.

The most important question I would like to have answered is if cannabis use greatly increases the risk of psychosis and makes it appear in people earlier...than how come the rates of psychosis aren't higher? There's never been a sharp spike of psychosis patients. Ever. Not in the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, or even the last ten years. However, the use of cannabis has grown dramatically since the 80s. If these studies are so conclusive then where is the evidence that shows a sharp increase in psychosis? If the much higher THC content of today's cannabis is more likely to cause psychosis then why have we not see any increases in the number of people who have the disease?

Oh wait, that's simple...there isn't any because cannabis doesn't cause psychosis. Psychosis is the direct product of numerous environmental and genetic factors. There's not a single bit of research that gives any direct connection between psychosis and an environmental or genetic factor.

[Used Future]

I've been to Canada, and I've been to Amsterdam.

Unless Harry Lime was importing the weed from Amsterdam then it wasn't 'the strongest weed in the world';)

[Brodinski]

You've got two studies that don't give any direct connection between cannabis use and psychosis. That doesn't count as certain evidence.

Are you blind?

Cannabis is the most widely used illicit drug in the world, but it is not wholly free from potentially harmful side effects (Ashton 2002; Iversen 2003). Worldwide evidence documents that cannabis use is a modest statistical risk factor for the emergence of psychosis, ranging from psychotic symptoms such as hallucinations and delusions to clinically significant disorders such as schizophrenia. Prospective studies estimate that cannabis use is associated with a twofold increase in later schizophrenia outcomes, and early, adolescent-onset cannabis use is associated with a higher risk (Arseneault et al 2004), possibly because individuals who begin to use cannabis when the brain is still developing are most vulnerable to its deleterious effects (Ehrenreich et al 1999; Pistis et al 2004; Pope et al 2003; Schneider and Koch 2003).

The claims made by the authors of the article I quoted are based on the results of the studies marked in red above. Those are all studies that scientifically prove what I said in my previous posts. I'm sure you know how to use Google Scholar to find the actual studies if you care to read them in case you, you know, actually want to learn something that is SCIENTIFICALLY proven about marijuana.

The most important question I would like to have answered is if cannabis use greatly increases the risk of psychosis and makes it appear in people earlier.

The material is available to you, at least if you're ready to see your beliefs about marijuana tarnished. Just read the studies marked in red and the study by Caspi et al., 2005.

[Deadite]

Beware the Drug of Doom!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1jB7RBGVGk

[Sedai]

The DEA study of potency clearly stated the strongest weed in the world was grown in a town called Worcester, Massachusetts. I will try to dig up the study in question. It was perhaps 8-10 years ago though, so things may have changed.

[Deadite]

Are you blind?



The claims made by the authors of the article I quoted are based on the results of the studies marked in red above. Those are all studies that scientifically prove what I said in my previous posts. I'm sure you know how to use Google Scholar to find the actual studies if you care to read them in case you, you know, actually want to learn something that is SCIENTIFICALLY proven about marijuana.



The material is available to you, at least if you're ready to see your beliefs about marijuana tarnished. Just read the studies marked in red and the study by Caspi et al., 2005.

Mothaf*cka, you on some buulllllsh!t.

http://beehivehairdresser.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/chris-tucker.jpg

[Used Future]

Currently checking on flights to Worcester, Massachusetts ;)

[John McClane]

Are you blind?Nah, just psychotic.

The claims made by the authors of the article I quoted are based on the results of the studies marked in red above. Those are all studies that scientifically prove what I said in my previous posts. I'm sure you know how to use Google Scholar to find the actual studies if you care to read them in case you, you know, actually want to learn something that is SCIENTIFICALLY proven about marijuana.In order to scientifically prove something as a direct cause it has to be prove again and again and again. If you actually did more reading instead of stopping at the first few studies that "proved" your worldview right you'd see that no such consensus has been reached. In fact, the more studies that are done the less consensus there is, which can only mean one thing: There is NO direct connection between cannabis and psychosis. Back to the drawing board, buckaroo.

The material is available to you, at least if you're ready to see your beliefs about marijuana tarnished. Just read the studies marked in red and the study by Caspi et al., 2005.I have no beliefs on the issue. Just evidence, dude.

[John McClane]

Arseneault et al 2004: Results - On an individual level, cannabis use confers an overall twofold increase in the relative risk for later schizophrenia. At the population level, elimination of cannabis use would reduce the incidence of schizophrenia by approximately 8%, assuming a causal relationship. Cannabis use appears to be neither a sufficient nor a necessary cause for psychosis. It is a component cause, part of a complex constellation of factors leading to psychosis.

I took logic when I was in college and what that sentence is saying is *cannabis doesn't cause psychosis.* Would you like me to read through the other ones and prove you wrong some more? I just naturally decided to start with the most recent evidence, since cannabis is more potent and dangerous these days. ;)

[Brodinski]

In fact, the more studies that are done the less consensus there is, which can only mean one thing: There is NO direct connection between cannabis and psychosis. Back to the drawing board, buckaroo.

Bring 'em on, philosopher. Let's see you come up with studies that prove your point. All I've got are close to 10 scientific studies that prove the points I made. I'm sure if I did some digging, I'd find hundreds more. So far you have shown me zero factual evidence to back your claims.

[Deadite]

If marijuana caused mental illness, then cultures that have a higher rate of marijuana smoking than the U.S. should have a higher rate of mental illness. But in fact, the opposite is true. Cultures with higher rates of marijuana consumption have lower rates of mental illness than the United States. This would indicate that rather than marijuana causing mental illness, as your article implies, it is people with mental illness who are self medicating with marijuana in order to alleviate their symptoms.

http://weedpress.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/1368/

[John McClane]

Bring 'em on, philosopher. Let's see you come up with studies that prove your point. All I've got are close to 10 scientific studies that prove the points I made. I'm sure if I did some digging, I'd find hundreds more. So far you have shown me zero factual evidence to back your claims.Actually, I prefer using your own studies against you. It's a LOT more fun! :D

[Yoda]

If marijuana caused mental illness, then cultures that have a higher rate of marijuana smoking than the U.S. should have a higher rate of mental illness.
This is a huge logical fallacy. It only applies if the countries are otherwise equal in every way. If marijuana caused mental illness a culture that smokes more would have more mental illness than it otherwise would have, not necessarily more than some completely different country. And that's without getting into how mental illness is defined.

Not saying it does cause it, just that the argument linked to is really bad.

[Used Future]

This is a huge logical fallacy. It only applies if the countries are otherwise equal in every way. If marijuana caused mental illness a culture that smokes more would have more mental illness than it otherwise would have, not necessarily more than some completely different country

Anyone know the mental illness stats for Jamaica then???

I heard they were too stoned to record anything...

:shrug:

Just asking...

[Deadite]

Bring 'em on, philosopher. Let's see you come up with studies that prove your point. All I've got are close to 10 scientific studies that prove the points I made. I'm sure if I did some digging, I'd find hundreds more. So far you have shown me zero factual evidence to back your claims.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

http://pr.cannazine.co.uk/20080609345/cannabis-news/marijuana-scare-stories-deliberately-confuse-correlation-with-causation.html

[John McClane]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

http://pr.cannazine.co.uk/20080609345/cannabis-news/marijuana-scare-stories-deliberately-confuse-correlation-with-causation.htmlThis is precisely why all your studies, Brodinski, don't give any evidence for a direct cause between cannabis and psychosis. Because, like I've already said multiple times, cannabis does not cause psychosis.

[Deadite]

This is a huge logical fallacy. It only applies if the countries are otherwise equal in every way. If marijuana caused mental illness a culture that smokes more would have more mental illness than it otherwise would have, not necessarily more than some completely different country. And that's without getting into how mental illness is defined.

Not saying it does cause it, just that the argument linked to is really bad.

Care to elucidate on those relevant inequalities that would factor into the argument?

[Brodinski]

Arseneault et al 2004: Results - On an individual level, cannabis use confers an overall twofold increase in the relative risk for later schizophrenia. At the population level, elimination of cannabis use would reduce the incidence of schizophrenia by approximately 8%, assuming a causal relationship. Cannabis use appears to be neither a sufficient nor a necessary cause for psychosis. It is a component cause, part of a complex constellation of factors leading to psychosis.

I took logic when I was in college and what that sentence is saying is *cannabis doesn't cause psychosis.* Would you like me to read through the other ones and prove you wrong some more? I just naturally decided to start with the most recent evidence, since cannabis is more potent and dangerous these days. ;)

Still lacking those reading skills:

Prospective studies estimate that cannabis use is associated with a twofold increase in later schizophrenia outcomes, and early, adolescent-onset cannabis use is associated with a higher risk (Arseneault et al 2004)

As you can see, the study found evidence that cannabis use can lead to schizophrenia and that it's even more dangerous when used at a young age.

Also, if you'd read further, you would read this:

There is little dispute that cannabis intoxication can lead to acute transient psychotic episodes in some individuals (D'Souza et al, 2004 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#ref-8)) and that it can produce short-term exacerbation or recurrences of pre-existing psychotic symptoms (Thornicroft, 1990 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#ref-38); Mathers & Ghodse, 1992 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#ref-23); Hall & Degenhardt, 2004 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#ref-14)).


DISCUSSION

Is cannabis a causal risk factor for psychosis?

In this review we have tried to determine whether cannabis is a cause of schizophrenia. We have shown that all the available population-based studies on the issue have found that cannabis use is associated with later schizophrenia outcomes (Table 1 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#T1)). All these studies support the concept of temporal priority by showing that cannabis use most probably preceded schizophrenia. These studies also provide evidence for direction by showing that the association between adolescent cannabis use and adult psychosis persists after controlling for many potential confounding variables such as disturbed behaviour, low IQ, place of upbringing, cigarette smoking, poor social integration, gender, age, ethnic group, level of education, unemployment, single marital status and previous psychotic symptoms. Further evidence for a causal relationship is provided by the presence of a dose-response relationship between cannabis use and schizophrenia (Andréasson et al, 1988 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#ref-2); van Os et al, 2002 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#ref-40); Zammit et al, 2002 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#ref-44)), specificity of exposure (Arseneault et al, 2002 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#ref-3); van Os et al, 2002 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#ref-40); Zammit et al, 2002 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#ref-44); Fergusson et al, 2003 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#ref-11)) and specificity of the outcome (Arseneault et al, 2002 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#ref-3)). Overall, cannabis use appears to confer a twofold risk of later schizophrenia or schizophreniform disorder (pooled odds ratio=2.34; 95% CI 1.69-2.95).


And some evidence to answer your question as to why the rates aren't higher:

If cannabis use can cause psychosis, how can we explain that, despite steadily increasing rates of cannabis use over past decades, the incidence of schizophrenia in the population has remained stable? First, with a population-attributable fraction of 8% the causal influence of cannabis use on the incidence of schizophrenia is probably not easily visible in the general population. Second, the Dunedin study showed that cannabis use in early adolescence (first reported use at age 15 years) was associated with the strongest effects on schizophrenia outcomes. Trends of cannabis use among adolescents in the USA indicate that cannabis use under the age of 16 years is a fairly new phenomenon that has appeared only since the early 1990s (Johnston et al, 2002 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#ref-18)). One would therefore predict an increase in rates of schizophrenia in the general population over the next 10 years. Indeed, there is already some evidence that the incidence of schizophrenia is currently increasing in some areas of London, especially among young people (Boydell et al, 2003 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#ref-4)).

[Used Future]

@Deadite

I think Yoda may be refering to the size of the country in question (amongst other things), hence my tongue-in-cheek question about Jamaica:)

[John McClane]

Brodinski: Do you not understand anything about gene-environment interactions?

[Deadite]

@Deadite

I think Yoda may be refering to the size of the country in question (amongst other things), hence my tongue-in-cheek question about Jamaica:)

Ah, my bad. I might be a bit high. :D

[Brodinski]

Mothaf*cka, you on some buulllllsh!t.

http://beehivehairdresser.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/chris-tucker.jpg

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_li4ufzabzm1qzaqk3o1_500.gif

[John McClane]

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_li4ufzabzm1qzaqk3o1_500.gifThat's right. I can't handle lies. :(

[Used Future]

Ah, my bad. I might be a bit high. :D


Have a Reese's on me :cool:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_QgzY5LjzOJ0/Seaqc6QhKpI/AAAAAAAAAB4/G7bwxF_TPFA/s400/reese%27s+big+cup.jpg

[Brodinski]

Brodinski: Do you not understand anything about gene-environment interactions?

I understand it. And do you understand what I have posted and highlighted?

[John McClane]

I understand it. And do you understand what I have posted and highlighted?Yeah, I understand you're wrong.

[Deadite]

Links aside, I'm willing to assume marijuana is a potentially dangerous drug under the right circumstances. However, that can be said of drugs like Prozac too. These kinds of studies that people like Brodinski love to rely upon simply aren't conclusive or impartial.

What I want to know is, who here supports alcohol prohibition?

[Brodinski]

Give me a shout once you've learned to read and understand scientific evidence. I might answer, as long as you keep posting those juicy pics of your body.

[Brodinski]

What I want to know is, who here supports alcohol prohibition?

Naturally, I do. People like me do. I also support banning ugly people from clubs, handicapped people from public transport (they take up too much space). I also think Evolutionism should be banned from public schools and replaced with Creationism. Oh, and the Inquisition should be reinstated. People like me love that *****.

[Deadite]

Give me a shout out once you decide to answer the question in a way that addresses the point non-facetiously.

[John McClane]

What worries me is I can't tell if you're serious or kidding. :laugh:

And yes, I am a camwhore so more photos of me will end up in the personal pictures thread at some point. :laugh:

[Brodinski]

I'm too tired to carry on. Almost midnight here in Belgium. Good night of posting, boys. I've got lots of stuff to do tomorrow (like deadlifting and squatting ;)), but might pop in to bicker with you kids a bit more.

[Deadite]

Until we disagree again, then! :cool:

[Yoda]

This is precisely why all your studies, Brodinski, don't give any evidence for a direct cause between cannabis and psychosis. Because, like I've already said multiple times, cannabis does not cause psychosis.
You just railed on him for drawing stark conclusions from studies, but you're doing the exact same thing when you say, definitively, that it does not cause psychosis. You can't have it both ways. Either you're taking a position of skepticism, or you're definitively taking this stance. Which is it?

Also, I suspect the word "direct" is your escape hatch. Depending on how you're using that word, you might be imposing a burden of proof that would exclude any number of studies showing statistically significant connections. You've been pretty vague on this point.

[Yoda]

Care to elucidate on those relevant inequalities that would factor into the argument?
Oh, anything, really. I could start guessing but it wouldn't be necessary, nor worth much unless we know what definition of "mental illness" is being used. You just linked to a description of the correlation/causality fallacy, though, and this is pretty much the exact same thing. The argument that blog is putting forward makes no attempt to isolate cause from effect.

[Oktober]

Indeed, there is already some evidence that the incidence of schizophrenia is currently increasing in some areas of London, especially among young people (Boydell et al, 2003 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full?ijkey=bc8ea43b2ea3476b40abe7f5dfee2171463cf7a3#ref-4)).

Yes, but that goes for anywhere south of the Watford Gap. Nothing strange in that. :cool:

[nebbit]

You can debate or justify your use of this as much as you like :yup: I have worked in mental health for 40yrs if Marijuana doesn't cause psychosis it sure makes it worse :yup:
I have just been to a conference where one of the papers presented was about Mara use http://serve.mysmiley.net/cool/cool0044.gif it is now, not considered a soft drug anymore :nope: well here in Australia :yup:
It is like any drug some get addicted, some don't, in the end after many years of use it causes damage to your body and the health system has to care for you :rolleyes:

[Harry Lime]

I've been to Canada, and I've been to Amsterdam.

Unless Harry Lime was importing the weed from Amsterdam then it wasn't 'the strongest weed in the world';)

You obviously didn't meet the right people, like me a few years back.

Now, my *****, I'll take the Pepsi challenge with that Amsterdam *****, any day of the f#ckin' week.

[ollanik]

I wont even think of wasting my time in responding to this ,,anti-marijuana,, comments.Really,what is a point,they will not make anyone from here stop using marijuana anyway,so i don't see why they are wasting their time either.

[The Prestige]

Had some Thai weed the other day. First time in years that i've had a spliff. Wasn't a big deal. Made me tired more than anything so won't be doing it again anytime soon.

[nebbit]

I wont even think of wasting my time in responding to this ,,anti-marijuana,, comments.Really,what is a point,they will not make anyone from here stop using marijuana anyway,so i don't see why they are wasting their time either.
No but we are entitled to our opinions, I care about peoples health, I care about my friends and the people here that have addictions to legal or illegal drugs :yup:

[Golgot]

...Cannabis use appears to be neither a sufficient nor a necessary cause for psychosis. It is a component cause, part of a complex constellation of factors leading to psychosis.

I took logic when I was in college and what that sentence is saying is *cannabis doesn't cause psychosis.*

No it isn't. It's saying: 'It is a component cause'. It says it right there.

And that seems to be the angle Brod is pushing (pusher that he is ;)). Or at least the studies he has quoted support the view that smoking ganja can increase the risk of psychosis. Not cause per se, but increase the risk, particularly in those who may already carry a greater risk of it due to genetic propensity or what have you.

You're not being particularly logical in this argument to be honest JM.

But then again, I don't agree with Brod's physical-addication take on marijuana either. (My own anecdotal experiences, and the few reports I've read on the subject, suggest it's more in the realm of an 'emotionally habit forming' substance, as Seds was putting it, rather than a vehicle for physically addictive compounds etc).

---

PS I stay away from the stuff mainly these days, but here's two vaguely interesting anecdotes:

At a recent festival I got far too stoned and didn't particularly enjoy the experience, panic-attack style bafflement ensuing, but on the plus side Jarvis Cocker turned into a giant cross of sunlight. (This was because the sun was slanting in from the side, and there was a cross-shaped scratch on my sunnies, but don't ruin my anecdote ;))

The other night I was introduced to an absolute stone-cold psycho. He was a handful. The type of giant semi-charismatic thug who dates the policewomen who arrest him and can turn into a mindless wrecking ball at the drop of a hat. Blessedly by the end of the night I got him so stoned on his own weed he fell asleep. (I wasn't worried about it bringing out his psychotic side - his psychotic side has already been fully released. I did know that skunk's so strong these days even that ox would hit the floor after a few strong hits tho ;))

[Brodinski]

Give me a shout out once you decide to answer the question in a way that addresses the point non-facetiously.

I am now.

No, I am not in favour of prohibiting alcohol consumption. I assume that you believe that I am in favour of prohibiting the consumption of cannabis. I am not. I believe that everyone should be allowed to put whatever substances into their bodies if they wish to do so, as long as they are informed accordingly as to the risks and detrimental effects. Everyone is a master of their own body and mind, so if they want to consume excessive amounts of alcohol or drugs or fatty foods, that is their decision.

[ollanik]

I would like to know something from the people here who smoke: Why do you smoke it? I ask with sheer curiosity and a seriousness to know your very deepest reasons of doing it.

I smoke weed because when i am high,i go very deep into thinking about big stuff like nature,mysteries of ancient civilizations,humanity or universe and other dimensions.Weed makes me love science and art 1000 times more than when i am sober,everything around me look so cool and powerful,and prettier than it is when i am sober.

[John McClane]

I would like to know something from the people here who smoke: Why do you smoke it? I ask with sheer curiosity and a seriousness to know your very deepest reasons of doing it.

And I'm more interested in answers besides, "It helps me relax" and "It helps me sleep" and "It winds me down."

Is everyone's experience with marijuana very personal and different? I am completely dumbstruck by the constant barrage of, "I use it to relax. I use it to sleep." To me, marijuana might as well be dropping acid. So why are people using it and not feeling much from it? I'm very curious to hear from people who don't use marijuana just to fall asleep.I've used marijuana for TONS of reasons: deep reflection, anti-nausea, insomnia, stress, enjoyment, but the number one reason has always been to help me focus.

No one here has a precise understanding of what I go through some days and what marijuana can do to help, and I'm really sick of people peddling *crap* about a substance that improves my quality of life. Of course, I can't help it that some people are tightwads about people making informed decisions in their life.

I'm sorry to tell you all that we are all dying.

[Yoda]

Whether or not it improves your quality of life has nothing to do with whether or not it does, in fact, have the potential for side effects. Nor is it fair to suggest that anyone who thinks it might have side effects is being a "tightwad," or cares at all about what you do with your own life.

I don't feel like the discussion about side effects has really been about that, because everyone crapping on the idea happens to be someone who also thinks pot is awesome. The inverse is not true, however.

[John McClane]

Alcohol has side effects, Adderall has side effects, SSRIs have side effects, etc.

Not only that but those side effects are much more severe than cannabis. Alcohol can kill you, Adderall can give you heart problems, depression/anxiety, and anger issues, SSRIs can make you suicidal and yet we continue to allow these substances to freely float around in our society.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no reason to continue to discuss this issue unless someone can answer why society allows harder substances with much worse side effects to be legally accessible.

[Yoda]

Alcohol has side effects, Adderall has side effects, SSRIs have side effects, etc.

Not only that but those side effects are much more severe than cannabis. Alcohol can kill you, Adderall can give you heart problems, depression/anxiety, and anger issues, SSRIs can make you suicidal and yet we continue to allow these substances to freely float around in our society.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no reason to continue to discuss this issue unless someone can answer why society allows harder substances with much worse side effects to be legally accessible.
Why's that? Brodinski did not suggest that marijuana should be illegal. He's claiming that there are, in fact, some potential dangers to its use. I fail to see what you enjoying it has to do with that, or why he should be required to defend these things about legalization which he hadn't claimed.

[John McClane]

Why's that? Brodinski did not suggest that marijuana should be illegal. He's claiming that there are, in fact, some potential dangers to its use. I fail to see what you enjoying it has to do with that, or why he should be required to defend these things about legalization which he hadn't claimed.Because cannabis is one of the most benign substances you can use, and it also has countless medical uses yet its listed as a Schedule I drug. That's why. And some potential dangers to its use? Um, duh, so does everything else. Also, a chicken has wings.

[Yoda]

Except that you were downplaying that before, saying there was "not one shred" of evidence for it (or some such similar phrasing). That's what I was disagreeing with: the fact that people who like and enjoy marijuana often exhibit a kneejerk hostility to the idea that it could have significant downsides, even when the suggestion comes from someone who agrees it should be legal.

[John McClane]

Except that you were downplaying that before, saying there was "not one shred" of evidence for it (or some such similar phrasing). That's what I was disagreeing with: the fact that people who like and enjoy marijuana often exhibit a kneejerk hostility to the idea that it could have significant downsides, even when the suggestion comes from someone who agrees it should be legal.No, my "kneejerk hostility" was to the "data" about it making you more likely to have psychosis. I never once said that pot didn't have any negative effects. I'm just rather sick of people trumping up crap data to try and show how a useful plant is flat out "dangerous." For crying out loud, people, everything is dangerous these days. And like I already said once...we are ALL going to die. The more people continue to focus on its negative aspects and not the positive ones, the more likely we won't see any changes in the law. THAT'S the only thing I'm taking issue with but very few people want to hear it. They'd rather just tell me about the boogeyman under my bed.

[John McClane]

I'm more surprised by him saying it should be legal and then shrugging off the current climate against the plant and its users.

[Deadite]

I'm surprised/intrigued by you believing it should be legal, Yoda. And yet you've never tried it? I would love to hear your reaction to it if you got really, really baked. Film it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtItOz3K7uE

[Brodinski]

I've used marijuana for TONS of reasons: deep reflection, anti-nausea, insomnia, stress, enjoyment, but the number one reason has always been to help me focus.

No one here has a precise understanding of what I go through some days and what marijuana can do to help, and I'm really sick of people peddling *crap* about a substance that improves my quality of life. Of course, I can't help it that some people are tightwads about people making informed decisions in their life.

I'm sorry to tell you all that we are all dying.

Why so angry? Use all the cannabis you like if it makes you feel better. I'm not the police officer who jacked you for carrying that ***** on you. You have all the information at your disposal and if you still want to use the drug, then by all means.

I'm just saying that cannabis undoubtedly has side-effects that can be very harmful to your health on a long-term perspective. And the data I used to prove my point isn't 'crap'.

[Yoda]

No, my "kneejerk hostility" was to the "data" about it making you more likely to have psychosis.
Okay, then you can dispute that. But all this stuff about how other things have side effects, and that the good outweighs the bad for you, is all beside the point.

I'm just rather sick of people trumping up crap data to try and show how a useful plant is flat out "dangerous." For crying out loud, people, everything is dangerous these days. And like I already said once...we are ALL going to die. The more people continue to focus on its negative aspects and not the positive ones, the more likely we won't see any changes in the law. THAT'S the only thing I'm taking issue with but very few people want to hear it. They'd rather just tell me about the boogeyman under my bed.
I feel pretty confident that "we're all going to die" is not a point of dispute. ;)

Anyway, I think this is the key phrase:

"The more people continue to focus on its negative aspects and not the positive ones, the more likely we won't see any changes in the law."

This might be true. But it's not a reason to lash out at what evidence there may be. Lots of annoying truths make certain types of progress more difficult.

This should be a purely technical question: is the evidence compelling on some level? If not, why not? That should supersede whether or not whatever answer people come to is going to harm the pot legalization movement.

[Yoda]

I'm surprised/intrigued by you believing it should be legal, Yoda. And yet you've never tried it? I would love to hear your reaction to it if you got really, really baked. Film it.
I don't react very well to smoke; it usually makes me nauseous (even cigarette smoke), so that's a major impediment. Mostly, though, the things I like doing often benefit from being clear-headed, so I'd just rather spend my time and money on them.

[Sedai]

No but we are entitled to our opinions, I care about peoples health, I care about my friends and the people here that have addictions to legal or illegal drugs :yup:

Except... IT'S.NOT.ADDICTIVE.

It's behavior modifying. It isn't physically addictive like Alcohol or Heroin. If it was, people who stop smoking suddenly after years of use would immediately experience severe health problems or death. This is an important distinction.

When one stops smoking, your health begins to IMPROVE, not deteriorate into withdrawls, Delirium tremens, or other complications caused by chemicals that are actually addictive.

[will.15]

All the presidential candidates should smoke weed before their next debate:

Herman Cain (sings) If you want 9 9 9 Plan, I'm your man (giggles).

Huntsman: Isn't that the price of pizza?

Bachmann: Pizza! Let's order pizza!

Perry: I prefer Mexican food.

Romney: You would.

Perry: What is that supposed to mean?

Romney: Your momma was a wetback.

Santorum: I love you guys, but not in a gay way.

Gingrich: I'll try anything once.

Ron Paul: I wanna boogie.

[nebbit]

Except... IT'S.NOT.ADDICTIVE.

It's behavior modifying. It isn't physically addictive like Alcohol or Heroin. If it was, people who stop smoking suddenly after years of use would immediately experience severe health problems or death. This is an important distinction.

When one stops smoking, your health begins to IMPROVE, not deteriorate into withdrawls, Delirium tremens, or other complications caused by chemicals that are actually addictive.

The thinking on it being addictive has changed :yup: People get anxious, irritable, can't sleep when they stop it :yup: I am talking about people who smoke a lot and they are the people i see :yup: because if it isn't a problem for them then they don't need to see me :nope:

Yes you are right you won't die from stopping it :nope: you also won't die from stopping Heroin you may get quite ill but Alcohol is the one that can kill you :yup: Alcohol is one the most dangerous drugs out there :yup:

I know I won't change anyones mind who smokes because as humans we think "I have it under control" :rolleyes: I know that the people I see in my job are the worse cases but hey they started somewhere :yup:

[ollanik]

The thinking on it being addictive has changed :yup: People get anxious, irritable, can't sleep when they stop it :yup: I am talking about people who smoke a lot and they are the people i see :yup: because if it isn't a problem for them then they don't need to see me :nope:

Yes you are right you won't die from stopping it :nope: you also won't die from stopping Heroin you may get quite ill but Alcohol is the one that can kill you :yup: Alcohol is one the most dangerous drugs out there :yup:

I know I won't change anyones mind who smokes because as humans we think "I have it under control" :rolleyes: I know that the people I see in my job are the worse cases but hey they started somewhere :yup:


It is not addictive...when i need to pause with weed on month or two,i do that withouth any problems,i can sleep,i can eat,i dont think about weed at all...you cant compare alcohol and heroin(?!) with weed.

[Brodinski]

I know I won't change anyones mind who smokes because as humans we think "I have it under control" :rolleyes: I know that the people I see in my job are the worse cases but hey they started somewhere :yup:

Very true, Nebs. From what I've read on the subject, most of the heavy drug users who end up in rehab started with a relatively innocent drug (at first glance at least): marijuana.

[Brodinski]

It is not addictive...when i need to pause with weed on month or two,i do that withouth any problems,i can sleep,i can eat,i dont think about weed at all...you cant compare alcohol and heroin(?!) with weed.

But just because YOU can, doesn't mean EVERYONE can. People in this thread need to stop throwing their personal experiences around and pass them off as general conclusions or - worse - facts. Only through the gathering, measuring and analysis of objective empirical data can one actually speak about these matters as facts. It's very easy and convenient to walse into any discussion and say: you're wrong, because I have experienced the contrary of what you're claiming. It's doesn't work that way.

[Deadite]

Doesn't matter what horror stories you dredge up. Either legalize my pot or illegalize your booze. You can't have it both ways.

[ollanik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOoHTcuORcY

[John McClane]

The thinking on it being addictive has changed :yup: People get anxious, irritable, can't sleep when they stop it :yup: I am talking about people who smoke a lot and they are the people i see :yup: because if it isn't a problem for them then they don't need to see me :nope:That's because their regular behavior has been altered. They're anxious and irritable because they aren't smoking and they can't sleep because they're anxious and irritable. Same thing goes for cigarettes. It's a habit.


Very true, Nebs. From what I've read on the subject, most of the heavy drug users who end up in rehab started with a relatively innocent drug (at first glance at least): marijuana.Yeah, that's because they hung out with the wrong people.

[nebbit]

It is not addictive...when i need to pause with weed on month or two,i do that withouth any problems,i can sleep,i can eat,i dont think about weed at all...you cant compare alcohol and heroin(?!) with weed.
I am not comparing Alcohol or Heroin with "weed" :nope:

So you don't smoke as much as the people I see that is a good thing :yup:

I was just quoting people who are doing research into "Weed" use etc (they were at a conference I went to 2 weeks ago) they say it is addictive :yup: well a least to some people :yup: so think yourself lucky :)

That's because their regular behavior has been altered. They're anxious and irritable because they aren't smoking and they can't sleep because they're anxious and irritable. Same thing goes for cigarettes. It's a habit.
Come on, People are addicted to Cigarettes :yup: its more than just a habit :yup:

Doesn't matter what horror stories you dredge up. Either legalize my pot or illegalize your booze. You can't have it both ways.
What horror stories are people throwing around :confused:

[Deadite]

There's a difference between an addictive substance and an addictive personality.

[nebbit]

There's a difference between an addictive substance and an addictive personality.
Ok :rolleyes:

[Deadite]

Alcohol impairs judgment and is addictive.

Tobacco kills people and is addictive.

You want to save the world from drugs?

You want alcohol and tobacco to be illegal?