Marijuana: Do you do it?

[These Filthy Hands]

Well aren't well all glad we spent all that time trying to elaborate our views then. It's all payed off in the end...:rolleyes:

No, I understand and appreciate everyone's views but it just seems that the debate is going nowhere. I was reading arguements and this popped into my head, I thought it was funny so I posted it.

[ash_is_the_gal]

i never said anyone was stupid, nor did i ever say that drugs were bad, or good. but thank you for putting words in my mouth.

[johnerotten]

if i had some,i'd smoke it every day until my kids got home.
beats taking painkillers!

[These Filthy Hands]

i never said anyone was stupid, nor did i ever say that drugs were bad, or good. but thank you for putting words in my mouth.

I never put words in anyone's mouths and I never called anyone out. But if you feel that way, more power to you. I was posting my observation on the way the debate was going. So, way to go on infering something that was never even there!

http://www.vujer.com/material/files/Borat_Two_thumbs_up_yours.jpg

[johnerotten]

drugs are angels and demons at the same time.if you abuse any drug you'll see the demonic side of it real fast.if you do nt abuse it,you'll see the good side of it.

[ash_is_the_gal]

So, way to go on infering something that was never even there!

i don't see how i interfered since we were all discussing the issue at hand until you came in and tried to play the Peacemaker, and since this thread, so far, has stayed fairly civilised, you just look like you're trying to be the hero in a slasher flick or something.

you generalised people in something you called "Party A" and "Party B" and you didn't really specify that you weren't actually calling anyone out. so i'm thinking--and i could be way off base here--that rationally speaking, and since you didn't state other wise, that i fell in one of the two of those categories, since i [and many others] have taken part actively in this thread. and yeah, that did annoy me, because i've been passionate solely on this subject due to my own personal convictions.

it was a bit rude.

[These Filthy Hands]

i never said anyone was stupid, nor did i ever say that drugs were bad, or good. but thank you for putting words in my mouth.

I restate. The above post is you saying that my comment is calling you out in specific. I never called anyone out. I have been watching the same arguement come out just reworded. However you look at it, neither party will win in the oppostions eyes. I wasn't being rude. If you want, I really can be. GET A SENSE OF HUMOR!!! Party A could be Santa Claus and Party B could be my dog for all I care. So yes, you infered that I was calling you out in specific. For all I care, I'm calling myself out. It was posted as a ****ING JOKE!!! Learn how to laugh. If you don't you're in for a very long life.

I am the peacemaker, I am the devil's advocate.

[These Filthy Hands]

[quote=ash_is_the_gal;475768]i've been passionate solely on this subject due to my own personal convictions. [quote]

Don't let your convictions completely close your mind. I don't do drugs but I'm not against people who do. Everyone has their own personal interests/things that bring them joy. I like smoking cigars. Does it make me any different from the guy who enjoys smoking a joint after work. I don't believe so. It's finding what you like that makes living life that much easier.

[Vertical Gunn]

hell no!
its illegal!!

[ash_is_the_gal]

I restate. The above post is you saying that my comment is calling you out in specific. I never called anyone out. I have been watching the same arguement come out just reworded.

sometimes, the point of a debate isn't to try to persuade the other party to your point of view. in this case, it was just an exchange of ideas and points of views.

i'm not going to respond to the rest of your post because it was ridiculous.

but if you even read any of my posts, you would easily see i don't condone people for being against marijuana. i only ever stuck up for the stereotypes people had for drug users.

[These Filthy Hands]

sometimes, the point of a debate isn't to try to persuade the other party to your point of view. in this case, it was just an exchange of ideas and points of views.

i'm not going to respond to the rest of your post because it was ridiculous.

but if you even read any of my posts, you would easily see i don't condone people for being against marijuana. i only ever stuck up for the stereotypes people had for drug users.

I did read your posts, maybe I just didn't get the right information from them. I apologize.

[igor_is_fugly]

Out of all the amazing chemicals available out there, I think pot is the least enjoyable for me. The idea really appeals to me but almost every time I've smoked in like the past 6 months I'm always the one that gets all of the bad side effects and it sucks. Especially cause I never used to get them. I get a sore jaw and can't feel myself swallow and get really thirsty. And I've only gotten a giggle fit once in all the time I've smoked. I usually just stare off into a corner and wish drinking was as convenient as smoking.

[mark f]

:( ?

[Sawman3]

So last night I went climbing and then headed to a little safehouse (friend's basement) with a new bro of mine.  I there proceeded to finish a bowl of the strongest stuff ever on a 26" bong.  I was RETARDED.  My m8 had to walk me to the truck, and going through the yard when I tried to walk through the gate in the fence I couldn't coordinate my movement to open it and fell over against the fence, tripped out.  He had to walk me through the gate, and then I thought his friend's car was our truck and laid on the hood.  The whole time I'm going: "I can't see!"  And he's going: "Open your eyes!  Open them!" And I'm going "They ARE open!"  I really thought they were open but apparently they were only open like the tiniest slit.

In the truck I drank a half-gallon of water and used half a tube of eyedrops, and was at least able to walk in a straight line by the time we got back to the gym.  I was stoned all night and I'm still feeling it a little now ^_^

[nebbit]

So last night I went climbing and then headed to a little safehouse (friend's basement) with a new bro of mine.* I there proceeded to finish a bowl of the strongest stuff ever on a 26" bong.* I was RETARDED.
:yup:

[Dill-man]

oh my people are way too stuck up about this (on both sides)

I don't think anyone should pass verdict until they've gotten high once. It's the same thing as everything else, you'd sound stupid passing verdict on a sport you've never actually played before.

[The Taxi Driver]

I think my feelings on Herb can be summed up in 'Burn One Down" by Ben Harper, all should give it a listen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt9YCb4xTss

"My choice is what I choose to do/and if I'm causing no harm it shouldn't bother you/Your choice is who you choose to be/and if your causing no harm then your alright with me./If you don't like my fire than don't come around/ Cuz' I'm gonna burn one down."

[Lucifer Prometheus]

I don't think anyone should pass verdict until they've gotten high once.I know people who have not had a good experience with with the stuff until their third or fourth try. So as a safety, I say that one oughtn't to pass a verdict on pot until they've gotten smoked at least five times. At least four of these must be under favorable conditions. By this I mean surrounded by people who they trust. It's the same thing as everything else, you'd sound stupid passing verdict on a sport you've never actually played before.Again, I must disagree. One can decide that football is a bore (or a barrel of extra-fun monkeys) to watch without having played it, and one can discern that they will never enjoy certain aspects of baseball if they detest running under any circumstances.

[Pyro Tramp]

I think it's a pretty juvenile drug, when i was younger parties used to be full of it and we'd all get bake and mong out. Think it's fair enough until you can go out drinking and do better drugs :) Don't mind sparking up after a night out to come down and chill out, or passing a spliff round a party but the times where half the people at said party would have half an ounce each are long gone. Wouldn't pass any judgement on it but i know some people who never gave it up when they hit Uni age and are pretty much a mess now. And apart from now and then i don't really see much point in being incapacitated and not be able fully function my body (of course with alcohol you get more active which is funner :)) seems boring now and pointless- unless it is like while chilling out with mates watching something funny.

[Lucifer Prometheus]

Think it's fair enough until you can go out drinking and do better drugs Alcohol is far easier to get than pot is when you are under 21. Not half as fun for me either. And there aren't really any 'better drugs.' There are stronger drugs, but these do not do the same thing as pot does, and most of them are far more dangerous and addictive.
i know some people who never gave it up when they hit Uni age and are pretty much a mess now.Out of the serious stoners who I know- and this includes guys who are quite literally constantly stoned- most of them are highly functional people. No pun intended. More functional than myself in fact, and I smoke rather rarely and not all that much when I do.
And apart from now and then i don't really see much point in being incapacitated and not be able fully function my bodyWhich is why I try not to smoke myself catatonic. I generally stop after I get high.
(of course with alcohol you get more active which is funner :)) It's an individual thing I guess. I am far more 'active' on a little weed than I am when I get drunk.
seems boring now and pointless- unless it is like while chilling out with mates watching something funny.Different smokes for different folks I guess:D

[Equilibrium]

Hi folks.

[nebbit]

Hi folks.
Hi Libby http://www.mazeguy.net/symbolic/nosmoking.gif

[Dill-man]

I know people who have not had a good experience with with the stuff until their third or fourth try. So as a safety, I say that one oughtn't to pass a verdict on pot until they've gotten smoked at least five times. At least four of these must be under favorable conditions. By this I mean surrounded by people who they trust.Again, I must disagree. One can decide that football is a bore (or a barrel of extra-fun monkeys) to watch without having played it, and one can discern that they will never enjoy certain aspects of baseball if they detest running under any circumstances.

Well what I was trying to say with the sport analogy is that it is stupid to pass judgement on a thing if you've never done it before. I respect people who have done drugs or drank and have said no but I find it a little harder for people who just plain out say no, that seems pretty ignorant to me but I guess people feel better being ignorant about it because society says it is a "bad thing."

[Swedish Chef]

Alcohol is far easier to get than pot is when you are under 21.

Really?

[Iroquois]

Hell, yes. I'm 18 and I can walk into a liquor store and pick up anything I want if I am so inclined.

Then again, that's because the legal limit is 18 around here. Suck it, Yanks. ^_^

[Swedish Chef]

I may be committing some relatively light treason in saying this, but we Americans have collectively and secretly decided to methodically cut Australia off from our proverbial teat. We're excommunicating you crazy kangaroo lovers and you can scoff at us "Yanks" all you want, but let's just see how long you guys last without HBO. Screw Australia. And I realize a lot of MoFo's, including the nicest MoFo, Nebbit, live in Australia, so I'm sorry. I felt a strange urge to defend my homeland from that flippant, non-threatening remark. Is "kangaroo lover" a common insult in Australia? And do you guys get HBO to begin with?

Anyway, suck it, kangaroo lovers. ^_^

And, also anyway, Liquid Prometheus is from Brooklyn

[Iroquois]

Hehe, nice try, Chef.

A, I have never heard anyone refer to anyone else as a "kangaroo lover". You want a common insult, try "sheep-shagger" (and even then that tends to get thrown around at New Zealanders more so than other Australians, lest we want to compare each other to New Zealanders)
B, we don't get HBO, however I think our own pay-TV packages get individual programs off HBO anyway.

Anyway, check me if I'm wrong but you're over 21, so no big deal either way.

[Swedish Chef]

Yeah, but at one point I was definitely under 21 and I don't know how it could be easier for a minor to get alcohol than weed, because it sure wasn't for me. I didn't have a cool older sibling or anything like that to buy me vodka, but high school kids who sell weed generally don't check your ID.

[Lucifer Prometheus]

Really?Yep. I had a couple of friends whose parents did not much mind the fact that they were drinking hard liquor at age 16. There were also bars and liquor stores that didn't really ID.

By the time you're friends with people who either are, or look like they're in their 20's- forget it.

[nebbit]

Screw Australia. And I realize a lot of MoFo's, including the nicest MoFo, Nebbit, live in Australia,
I'm not nice i am a Tasmanian devil http://www.kevinmccorrytv.com/tazzie-trans.gif

[Pyro Tramp]

Alcohol is far easier to get than pot is when you are under 21. Not half as fun for me either.

I think alcohol is certainly more social and who doesn't like losing all their inhibitions. I could get either them freely when i was smoking up a lot (around 16/18). I think alcohol becomes more fun when you're old enough to go out clubbing/raving etc and it's a good ol social lubricant. Unlike weed which may make

And there aren't really any 'better drugs.' There are stronger drugs, but these do not do the same thing as pot does, and most of them are far more dangerous and addictive.

I'd much rather do other drugs if i were to, won't bother mentioning which, but then again that's to do with going out clubbing and drinking that makes them preferable.

Out of the serious stoners who I know- and this includes guys who are quite literally constantly stoned- most of them are highly functional people. No pun intended. More functional than myself in fact, and I smoke rather rarely and not all that much when I do.
Which is why I try not to smoke myself catatonic. I generally stop after I get high.
It's an individual thing I guess. I am far more 'active' on a little weed than I am when I get drunk.
Different smokes for different folks I guess:D

Well, Bill Hicks is the easy quote here. But i'm just saying that people who've been on it constantly since 16 are a mess or 'musicians'. I don't do it still i whitey but if you're stoned you're inherently cathartic, it's certainly doesn't give you a buzz just chills you out. Can't imagine weed giving you similar activity to alcohol.

[Lucifer Prometheus]

I think alcohol becomes more fun when you're old enough to go out clubbing/raving etcAh, that explains it. I loathe that sort of thing. I think that I would have to be completely smashed to tolerate it:D

[mack]

i knew there was a reason i popped back into mofo, but i got sidetracked catching up on pics. oh wait, now I remember: MICHAEL PHELPS BABY!! :D

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ap-phelpssuspended&prov=ap&type=lgns

poor guy. he really isnt too bright, but he has that kind of hokey sweetness about himself that makes you feel for him, even in this situation. what could he have been thinking?

whatever your take on this one, i have to give phelps props for taking it with such dignity. ted haggard, on the other hand . . .

[AkirA206]

Marijuana is a neccesity...
Plus the cops don't arrest you for smoking Weed in Seattle

[king_of_movies_316]

How the hell do i get weed?

I don't know any drug dealers, nor do i know any one with "conections".

Any tips on how i could get any with out realy dealing with junkies/drug dealers?

note: i won't dob you in to the cops lol.

[Lennon]

I'm not nice i am a Tasmanian devil http://www.kevinmccorrytv.com/tazzie-trans.gif

Oh my god. It's a Nebbit post. Without a smiley. My jaw has hit the floor.

[zedlen]

in australia we smoke gum leaves.

[Pedz]

Smoked the stuff a bit when, I was younger. Found it very very boring after a while. I only smoke ciggerettes, I know people who smoke weed, to the extreme, they go through an ounce in a day or two, and smoke it via a bong, bucket, or a plain old bifta. One friend won't touch joints due to not liking tabacco.

[n3wt]

Its very odd as I know most of the people who your on about Pedz lol

I have smoked the stuff quite regularly when I was younger and in school but not so much since I became a Dad. I have had the occasonal J's every now and again when my mate's come around my house in the night or if im out and it is passed around but nothing much. As I suffor from FMS I could use it medisanal as a muscle relaxant but I choose not to as it would make my depression worse and I dont need it around my family.

[Outbreak]

I dont condone its use at all ;)
I personally only use it for medicinal purposes. You see... I did alot of drugs in my youth, so now I have little or no short term memory, so i smoke marijuana because it is supposed to help your short term memory or some-such, I don't know I can't really remember right now

:yup:

SO... *breaks into song* "Pass the Dutchie on the left hand side"

[Outbreak]

How the hell do i get weed?

I don't know any drug dealers, nor do i know any one with "conections".

Any tips on how i could get any with out realy dealing with junkies/drug dealers?

note: i won't dob you in to the cops lol.


Just if you go to HS school or college or anything like that, go to where the smokers usually... well smoke (just cigarette smokers) and ask anyone there if they know people who chop, or just ask people who don't look like, well sketchbags... it's all about networking, it is an important skill when one gets older :P

[king_of_movies_316]

Just if you go to HS school or college or anything like that, go to where the smokers usually... well smoke (just cigarette smokers) and ask anyone there if they know people who chop, or just ask people who don't look like, well sketchbags... it's all about networking, it is an important skill when one gets older :P

Lol i'm one of the smokers (until last week. when i quit :yup:). But thanks for the advice. Im getting some soon.

[messangerthug]

um....mari-ju-wana's baaaad mkay

[Outbreak]

um....mari-ju-wana's baaaad mkay


M'kay Mr. Mackey :p

[KasperKristensen]

I did it pherhaps once every second month once. I don't do it anymore though since I've recently signed up to be a blood doner. And for all the obvious reasons of course.
I had a casual relationship to marijuana. Just occationally with the guys. Wasn't a problem at all to quit.
I think that every drug that becomes an addiction with severe consequenses is generally a bad idea. But as long as one can control it, I think that it's okay for them to do it. Occasionally that is.
But then again... General smoking? I'm a smoker and smoking pretty much fits into my definition of a drug that's a bad idea.
But where do you draw the line?
My biology teacher told me that if alcohol was invented today it would be defined as nerve poison. The reason that alcohol hasn't been illegalized is that it's such a big part of our history. But then again... Isn't marijuana?

[The Taxi Driver]

sure Marijuana is a part of our history just nobody likes to talk about it.

[KasperKristensen]

It was a retorical question, just to clarify :p.

[Harry Lime]

How the hell do i get weed?


Take a trip to Vancouver, it's cheap, it's good, and it's everywhere. Just don't bring it home with you. If you got caught smoking it in public, the cops would just 'confiscate' it and let you go. Although I'm thinking this time next year they are going to be much harsher, gotta keep up appearances for the cameras.

I used to smoke all the time, but have quit with absolutely no relapse or withdrawl. It is definitely not addictive. It isn't necessarily good for you, but there are many legal things that are worse. In my opinion.

[mikeython1]

I just smoked the other day for I have not in a long time. After the paranoia settled down my eyes got bright red and I ate enough food to feed 3 people. Then I fell asleep. It was a lot of fun. :p

[nebbit]

Sounds like it :rolleyes:

[mark f]

I really have no comprehension when it comes to people saying that marijuana makes them paranoid. Does masturbation make you paranoid? Does shoplifting make you paranoid? I'm not trying to equal all three, and believe it or not, at this point in my life, I only do the first one, but there seems to be a huge guilt trip for certain people, and if you're on a guilt trip, doing recreational drugs with your friends seems like a bad idea to me. Why do you do it? I have probably smoked dope, on average, 25-30 times a year for about 34 years now, and I've never once felt "paranoid". I've also never, ever, felt the need to do drugs even when they're readily available. Somebody leaves a half a joint at my house... what do I do? I wait for that said-somebody to show up and relax with them (see, I relax; I don't "freak out"!)

Kids, I don't recommend drugs, but that's because I don't recommend almost anything because it's amazing how much "simple pleasures" such as running, drinking coffee and eating a yummy dessert can kill your ass!

[king_of_movies_316]

I just smoked the other day for I have not in a long time. After the paranoia settled down my eyes got bright red and I ate enough food to feed 3 people. Then I fell asleep. It was a lot of fun. :p

that sounds like an awesome day

[Liquid Essence]

I tend to do it alot these days... I heard stories that some say its very harmful and others say where its not. I really do not know if it is more harmful then cigarettes or tobacco though... then again, when I smoke weed its the pure thing with no filter so yea...

[John McClane]

I really have no comprehension when it comes to people saying that marijuana makes them paranoid. Does masturbation make you paranoid? Does shoplifting make you paranoid? I'm not trying to equal all three, and believe it or not, at this point in my life, I only do the first one, but there seems to be a huge guilt trip for certain people, and if you're on a guilt trip, doing recreational drugs with your friends seems like a bad idea to me. Why do you do it? I have probably smoked dope, on average, 25-30 times a year for about 34 years now, and I've never once felt "paranoid". I've also never, ever, felt the need to do drugs even when they're readily available. Somebody leaves a half a joint at my house... what do I do? I wait for that said-somebody to show up and relax with them (see, I relax; I don't "freak out"!)

Kids, I don't recommend drugs, but that's because I don't recommend almost anything because it's amazing how much "simple pleasures" such as running, drinking coffee and eating a yummy dessert can kill your ass!I always thought it was just the person's reaction to the drug? For example, I have a friend that says he's always "paranoid" that he will wet himself. So I don't really think that it's just, or always, guilt.

[Harry Lime]

It's your state of mind before you use the substance, as well as your surroundings. Just a hint of advice for anyone thinking of giving it a try (or any hallucinogenic for that matter), if you go into it with a negative state of mind, you will trip in a bad way, if you are positive and fearless, it could be very fun and enlightening. For more on this see Aldous Huxley's "The Doors of Perception" and "Heaven and Hell" (seeing as Huxley has been on the mind today thanks to bleacheddecay). But while they are not addictive, they can become habit forming. For some they also lead to other drugs, although this isn't a set rule despite what they tell you. I never got into hard drugs, and my first experimentation was with alchohol which in turn led to weed; LSD, Mushrooms, and Mescaline only a couple of times each. I have to admit though that I have been witness to a few lives in the process of being destroyed, and most of the time there is very little you can do for the person.

[mikeython1]

Maybe paranoia was a poor choice of word to describe what I felt. I have not been stoned in a long time. It just took me a little bit to settle down. I was not scared or peeking out the windows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD21JDMp86c

[Harry Lime]

"I always feel like, somebody's waaaatchin' me!"

[Lusty Argonian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2spZ-NDfS4

"High as F*&@" by Jon Lajoie. Classic stuff that any semi-regular friend of the bud could relate to. Oddly enough, it makes for good anti-marijuana propaganda at the same time.

[Liquid Essence]

haha when I used to smoke outside like in a building or something I was always paranoid lookin around to see if any cops were coming... lol after my first arrest i been scared as hell ever since XD but thats only while im smoking after its all good and i just enjoy the high

[king_of_movies_316]

I got "high" for the first time yesterday. I knew i was high but i was still saying random *****. One weird bit about it, was my mouth was very dry.

[king_of_movies_316]

Hi....

To all you experianced weed smokers, do you know why my heart rate goes realy fast when ever i smoke weed? Is this normal and does it happen to you?

[adidasss]

Yes, it's normal, it happens when you smoke cigarettes too. I was really freaked out by it the first time I smoked though...that was not a good trip. :|

[TheDOMINATOR]

Never have, never will.

[adidasss]

Any particular reason for it?

[KasperKristensen]

Your heart rate gets faster even with nicotine gum. Don't worry KOM :)

[bleacheddecay]

what are your thoughts on marijuana...okay not okay?

Okay for medicinal or occasional use.

Not okay for daily use. People I see doing that rarely get anywhere in life or have any plans for the future other than smoking more.

what about historical uses.....

I have no idea.

seriously..should marijuana be a normal part of our lives?

Not at the present time. For one thing, it's illegal. Why would mood altering drugs be a normal part of our lives even if it weren't? When I see a person who HAS to have a drink EVERY night, I wonder WTF is so horrible about that person's life that they feel a need to do that? Why can't they enjoy their live without drugs?

[KasperKristensen]

Well mood altering drugs are a part of lots of peoples lives. Legal ones, that is.

[bleacheddecay]

Yes they are. That doesn't make them a good thing though.

[KasperKristensen]

Yes they are. That doesn't make them a good thing though.

I agree. But I do think that it could work as an argument for legalizing marijuana. Not that I'm for it - I'm just pointing things out :p

[bleacheddecay]

I agree it should be legalized or decriminalized. I feel the same way about most drugs and prostitution as well. Why have unenforceable laws? Why not tax and regulate these areas?

I haven't had any pot since I was in seventh grade. I couldn't smoke it then. I just couldn't make myself inhale but my parent's brownies were laced with it. That was something I didn't know and they didn't bother to tell me.

[KasperKristensen]

I agree it should be legalized or decriminalized. I feel the same way about most drugs and prostitution as well. Why have unenforceable laws? Why not tax and regulate these areas?

I think you misunderstood me mate. I'm against legalizing marijuana.

I haven't had any pot since I was in seventh grade. I couldn't smoke it then. I just couldn't make myself inhale but my parent's brownies were laced with it. That was something I didn't know and they didn't bother to tell me.

Wauv... That's just wrong.

[bleacheddecay]

Oh, I did misunderstand you. Oh well. It seems we think a bit differently.

[Justin]

I got "high" for the first time yesterday. I knew i was high but i was still saying random *****. One weird bit about it, was my mouth was very dry.

Cotton mouth. By the way, I hope you enjoyed yourself.

[king_of_movies_316]

Cotton mouth. By the way, I hope you enjoyed yourself.

lol i sure did enjoy my self that day.

[bleacheddecay]

Doing drugs is MUCH more fun when you KNOW you are doing them. LOL.

[king_of_movies_316]

I heard that if you know you are high, you are not realy high, is that true?

[bleacheddecay]

Not true in MY experience.

I heard that if you know you are high, you are not realy high, is that true?

[John McClane]

I wish I had some now...

[adidasss]

I heard that if you know you are high, you are not realy high, is that true?
So if you know you're drunk you're not really drunk? How does that figure...?

Incidentally, I didn't get high the first few times I smoked. Not sure why but I think it happens to most people...at least that's what they told me. :|

[bleacheddecay]

Most of the time, in my experiences, I'm the ONLY one who knows I'm high.

[mack]

Most of the time, in my experiences, I'm the ONLY one who knows I'm high.

wait a minute....you have experiences? :p im just tryin to get to to bottom of this, cuz from the posts above it sure seems like youre against it. on the note above though, if you do have experiences, i find it highly unbelievable that people "dont know" ..... unless you were closeted away alone somewhere. :rotfl:

[Caitlyn]

I've run across a lot of people who think they're the only ones who know they've been drinking or doing drugs... ;)

[KasperKristensen]

My brother tries to hide that he's high sometimes. Funny thing is that one simple question can make him admit that he is; "Are you high?".
And then I know he's really high :D

[mack]

and then you get the inevitable sheepish look when you convince them theyre not hidden. mmm hmmm. why do people think people dont know? its somewhat ridiculous. as a non-smoker, i dont understand it. if youre an unabashed smoker, and otherwise unconcerned about the illegality of it, why would an adult care about hiding it?

[KasperKristensen]

and then you get the inevitable sheepish look when you convince them theyre not hidden. mmm hmmm. why do people think people dont know?

... 'Cause they're high

[bleacheddecay]

wait a minute....you have experiences? :p im just tryin to get to to bottom of this, cuz from the posts above it sure seems like youre against it. on the note above though, if you do have experiences, i find it highly unbelievable that people "dont know" ..... unless you were closeted away alone somewhere. :rotfl:

The first time I got high from pot, I was in 7th grade. My parents and their friends knew because they'd laced the brownies and I didn't know that when I ate them. They drove us out to eat and I couldn't even sync up what I said with what I wanted to say. So I know the waiter knew something was messed up as well.

I was, however, including times I'd been drinking which I KNEW I was doing. I remember going to my therapist when I was in college, drunk off my ass. I later asked her if she couldn't tell. She said not. I believed her.

I'm not against pot. I think it should be decriminalized or legalized. I am against people using it everyday and therefore, never getting anything else done in life because it hurts their spouse, children and themselves.

Since is is illegal and also since it stinks, I've never gotten into it. Once my parents stopped using, I've rarely encountered it. I did try to inhale a time or two but I couldn't make myself do so.

[mack]

well, two things then: your parents are alarmingly liberal, and you have an outstanding poker face. :p

[KasperKristensen]

Well, you have to assume that a high school therapist has treated some pretty messed up people. Maybe she thought that you was just weird :p

[bleacheddecay]

My parents should have told me there was pot in there. I would have never eaten them had I known.

They should not have been driving, nor taken their child who was high out in public IMO. I hated pot for years because it stinks when you smoke it. I remember my dad would go for a "walk" the cat would go with him and they'd both come home smelling like pot.

I can have a good poker face. I was raised to lie and keep secrets. I gave it up when I decided keeping secrets was detrimental to having a good full life though. Now I suspect I no longer can keep my thoughts off my face.

[bleacheddecay]

Well, you have to assume that a high school therapist has treated some pretty messed up people. Maybe she thought that you was just weird :p

Haha.

She was not a high school therapist. She wasn't even a college therapist though I went to her when I was in college.

Therapist should treat some fairly messed up people yes. I've been accused of being weird quite often.

This particular therapist was the sort I don't think help me. I like to be given "tools" to help make changes. She just listened. I have friends that can do that and they don't charge.

She was however my only therapist.

[mack]

hope you know im not picking on you bleached - i just had a flashback of certain litigant: a very young grandmother (imo) who was attempting to get custody of her grandson because when she would go to pick him up (which was often), he would be convinced it was raining, or that the clouds were purple, or some such. Her daughter would not stop smoking around the child.

i mean, its one thing to talk about irresponsible behavior for yourself, but irresponsible behavior for your children? not cool. i guess it goes to show in a nutshell that one's decisions, whether personally considered reprehensible or not, affect others.

[KasperKristensen]

Haha.

She was not a high school therapist. She wasn't even a college therapist though I went to her when I was in college.

Therapist should treat some fairly messed up people yes. I've been accused of being weird quite often.

This particular therapist was the sort I don't think help me. I like to be given "tools" to help make changes. She just listened. I have friends that can do that and they don't charge.

She was however my only therapist.

I can't quite figure out your tone. For the record: it was just a joke mate, nothing personal :)

[adidasss]

Was she smoking crack...mack?:rotfl: (I had to do it!)

Disclaimer: Smoking crack is not a laughing matter. adidasss does not support it in any way. :|

[bleacheddecay]

I agree. It really upsets me when children, especially, are made unsafe by their caregivers. Now if the person were only affect themselves, I'd say they are adult and entitled to be an idiot and destroy themselves but, sadly that is not often the case. Most people take others down with them. That's not okay to my way of thinking.

OTOH, I think having unenforceable laws is pretty stupid too. Particularly when sales could be taxed.

hope you know im not picking on you bleached - i just had a flashback of certain litigant: a very young grandmother (imo) who was attempting to get custody of her grandson because when she would go to pick him up (which was often), he would be convinced it was raining, or that the clouds were purple, or some such. Her daughter would not stop smoking around the child.

i mean, its one thing to talk about irresponsible behavior for yourself, but irresponsible behavior for your children? not cool. i guess it goes to show in a nutshell that one's decisions, whether personally considered reprehensible or not, affect others.

[bleacheddecay]

I can't quite figure out your tone. For the record: it was just a joke mate, nothing personal :)

Good to know.

Thanks for saying so.

Tone is difficult to gauge at times, online.

[karibou]

Tried it, and got lost trying to find my way home!! These days, I can't tolerate the smell of it....if hubby wants a few quick tokes, he has to go outside.


But god knows I love my vodka. It's the only thing which stays down.

[Ish1987]

Not regularly. All it does is make me sleepy tho, maybe im taking too much :rolleyes:

[mack]

Was she smoking crack...mack?:rotfl: (I had to do it!)

hey, im black, i talk smack, and some people really do call me daddy. ;)


Disclaimer: Smoking crack is not a laughing matter. adidasss does not support it in any way. :|

we got ya, adi - and youre right, i think this kid probably had a more going on than smoking pot like a chimney, but i use her only as an example of how irresponsibility affects others. but i admit thats true in any case, legal or illegal. :D im fairly certain that if theres a real argument for "responsible" and intentional drug use by an adult aware of potential consequences, its already been made.

oh right....we call that drinking. :p

[Harry Lime]

I can usually tell when someone is high, and for the most part even what drugs they're on.

[bleacheddecay]

Tried it, and got lost trying to find my way home!! These days, I can't tolerate the smell of it....if hubby wants a few quick tokes, he has to go outside.


But god knows I love my vodka. It's the only thing which stays down.

LOL!

I've been in Vodka and Bourbon training at times. Ah, those desperately unhappy days of my youth . . .

[Tazz]

Heh, just read this thread makes me laugh.

When people ask me the question, "Are you high?" my reaction is my face making a big smile and some giggles with the reply "no". It's real easy to spot me but if i'm in the zone and i don't want people to know i think serious thoughts. I got away going to work high sometimes, it just gets me more mellow and relaxed about dealing with people.

If you love marijuana [like me] then you'll love "Weeds". I've smoked a blunt to every episode! :) Nancy Botwin is soo beautiful!

[TheDOMINATOR]

No.

[bleacheddecay]

Weeds is a very well written, fun show. Yes, Mary-Louise Parker is beautiful and adorable, particularly when sipping on a straw or doing a "brick dance."

[SoulInside]

Yep, but it`s not so common in Germany, as it is in the USA (you`ve got a rate about 43%, right? That`s great.). Unfortunately I can`t do it too often, cause I do donating blood on a regular base.

[Harvey Dent]

Every. Single. Day.

[CaptHowdy]

http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Napoleon-Dynamite-napoleon-dynamite-117743_1024_768.jpg
HECK YES I DO!!!

[Tazz]

I do donating blood on a regular base.

I salute you! Needles + Me = Girlie screams and sprinting.

I use to burn everyday for the last past 2 years but I quit smoking & drinking for awhile, been burning too much cash on it. Oh how i miss thee.

Weeds need more SUPPORT! Legalize it!!!

[moviefan87]

never tried, never plan to.

[SoulInside]

I salute you! Needles + Me = Girlie screams and sprinting.

Weeds need more SUPPORT! Legalize it!!!

To be honest, when they put the needle in me, I have to look the other way. I don`t have to see how it happened! :nope:

Support your local weed dealer!

[glitterbat]

Personally, I've never tried it. Never had the urge to.
But my Boyfriend's sister. wow, she smoked herself RETARDED.
Tonight my bf's sister and his mom are flying in from Boston (they went on a little vacation to see the other sister, Cinthia). Cinthia called around 9am and told me that Miraida (pothead) was acting crazy. the thing that poped in my mind was that she was having Withdraws. Pfft, and people say you can't get addicted. UGH she's a retard now.

I would be very disapointed if i found out one of my kids were smoking pot.
I've seen WAY TOO MANY *all of them, i think* A&E Intervention shows to let my kids become that low.

[CayceP]

I've seen WAY TOO MANY *all of them, i think* A&E Intervention shows to let my kids become that low.

Good to see you're educated on the subject.

[rufnek]

I smoked pot and hash in the Army in Germany back in '63-'64. I roomed with a couple of guys who sold pot, and they gave me some to incriminate me and eliminate the risk I'd turn them in. I took it because I didn't give a flying fig about much back then and wanted to see what it was like. The two guys rotated back stateside before I did, and when they left I quit doing pot. Easier than quitting tobacco, and I never went back to it. But at the time, we had pot in our room, in our lockers, in our clothes, where the Army could have a shakedown inspection and bust us anytime. Took major foolish risks but were never busted. Still, I learned two major lessons about drugs--1) there's a very real risk that doing drugs will put your butt in jail. 2) doing drugs puts you in close contact with criminals whose only concern is making money from the sale of drugs--they'll use any additives they can find to stretch the drug supply and make more money at your expense. And if they get caught, they'll sell their own granny down the drain for a lesser sentence. Saw that many, many, many times covering the cop shop and courts as a reporter.

Never saw a single benefit to doing drugs. Spent too much time lying around in near stupors, laughing at things that seemed funny but weren't.

Third thing I learned about drugs--people selling you pot will encourage you to buy more expensive, more addictive drugs. Drinking can turn into substance abuse too, but I've never gone into a liquor store for a 6-pack of beer and had someone try to sell me hard liquor instead. Also ran virtually no illegal risk for drinking as long as I didn't have an open container in my car and wasn't DUI.

Fourth thing I learned--wouldn't want my kids or grandkids doing drugs. Not even pot. People prone to find a crutch to lean on in life eventually forget how to walk by themselves. And I've got a cousin whose kid suffered brain-damage from sniffing glue. I wouldn't wish that on a dog.

[John McClane]

In light of recent political events, let's have a renewed discussion.

Discuss...THIS (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-medical-marijuana20-2009oct20,0,7401028.story?track=rss).

I say it's about freaking time, and this is a huge step. Hooray for the respect of state rights! :yup:

[jrs]

http://i36.tinypic.com/2czvm9u.jpg

[bleacheddecay]

Did we learn from prohibition or not? That's the question I have.

[FILMFREAK087]

I've never tried, but was offered a couple times, but I think that anyone who says that a cancer patient should endure the suffering, just to make a point that "drugs are bad" should decline anesthetic at the dentists office. After all we can't seek "unnatural" means to alleviate pain! I'm just saying, BE CONSISTENT! The government should have no right to allocate people's suffering or the substances they wish to consume.

[mojofilter]

I used to smoke it occasionally back the day.

I DO NOT do it anymore! I don't even drink.

I'm happy to be this way.

[beelzebubbles]

I don't smoke weed but I do enjoy the tv show. It is hilarious! Usually, I can't stand Mary-Louise Parker but she tones down her tics and cutesiness in this show.

[Harry Lime]

Actually I guess I do have some sort of stupid curiosity about acid. both my mother and sydney have told me that they had epiphanies on acid (but that they wouldn't do it again and i shouldn't). I guess the fact that I'm close to both of them and want to believe in them causes me to question my fairly strong disbelief in spiritual awakenings. I dunno, I guess I still don't really buy it and still think the risks outweigh the possible benefits, but I just realized when I re-read the previous paragraphs that I had written that I wasn't totally ruling it out.

You can't physically overdose from LSD, you can do too much, go crazy and maybe off yourself, but you can't OD.

I've done it, about ten times. Intense is a word to describe it, and yes even a little enlightening. In the end it's really hard to describe and those who say that it's evil or wrong have either never tried it, tried once and had a bad trip (this happens but to be honest it all depends on the individuals mindset, if you fear you will fall), or took it too many times - don't understand the word "moderation". Read The Doors of Perception/Heaven and Hell by Aldous Huxley (it's short so no worries), he can probably give a better explanation than me. One thing I know for sure, I've never hallucinated the way most people figure you do from LSD, it's more of an intense emphasis on light, shades, shapes and colours. A blend and a separation of sorts, all and nothing at once.

Personally I would never do it again, too much built up in my mind over the years and I don't feel like bringing down the barriers and having it all before me with no way to turn it off. Although I do wonder if that's what I need, I never did try peyote, maybe one day.

[John McClane]

I smoked weed for my first time last week over fall break, and it'll probably be the only time. I'm not going to seek it out like I did this past week and I'll probably turn it down if offered. Once was enough to form plenty of opinions from it, though.

As for the experience, it was the most awe-inspiring moment I've ever had...EVER. I was seriously, seriously high and it was not a steady progression to that point. I was slammed with the effects. And naturally what do I do? I put The Fountain in the DVD player. I've never personally experienced anything that I could consider a spiritual experience, but I honestly have to say that watching The Fountain baked was the most profound spiritual event I've personally witnessed.

I don't want to smoke again not because I think it's dangerous, but because I'm afraid I'll never be able to experience that same feeling again. And quite personally, I don't wanna ruin one of my life's greatest experiences.

In short, it's a LOT safer than alcohol.

[GodsOtherMonkey]

"But have you seen The Fountain ON WEED?" - Parody of Jon Stewart.

;)

well, of course.

[bleacheddecay]

I love what I've seen of the show. I think she is adorable in it but I don't usually dislike her either.

I don't smoke weed but I do enjoy the tv show. It is hilarious! Usually, I can't stand Mary-Louise Parker but she tones down her tics and cutesiness in this show.

[mark f]

If someone wants to experience a benign, yet beautiful and enlightening marijuana experience, arrange to come to my house. I have a great collection of music and films, and no, we won't do anything all that extreme unless you bring the extreme stuff with you, and then, I'll have to trust you. I believe that musical appreciation is even better than film appreciation under the influence, but it all depends on what you're comfortable with and where you want to go. Peace.

[brotee mukhopadhyay]

Marijuana, known as Ganja in India, contains tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) which is the principal psychoactive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive) chemical compound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_compound). We smoke Marijuana which is the dried form of the herb named Cannabis.
Presently we have been forced not to accept it mainly on the health ground although it has remained related with religion, medicine and fun or recreation for centuries. One can trace its use even five thousand years ago.
My association with Marijuana is not good, I must state.
I have passed through the following experiences:
a)A sense of terrifying loneliness even when I have lived close to my family members,
b)Failure to identify what is what most of the time,
c)A feeling that I have been floated in the sky higher and higher,
d)Unnatural increase in appetite and
e) Hangover seeming to be long-stretched or even painfully never-ending
I have dissociated myself from such formidable substance of addiction. May be that Marijuana demands very stout physique like that of an Indian sage which I have surely lacked. I do not want to raise any point in defense of Marijuana.

[Equilibrium]

brotee....

surely you can see the benefits of an increased appetite. Also why does the feeling of loneliness bother you? I wonder if people fear being alone because they dont like themselves and dont enjoy their own company.

Personally, its exactly the feeling of loneliness and "not knowing whats what" that makes smoking weed (especially after a stressful day) so appealing. Sometimes its awesome to let go.

[LoutheCritic]

I absolutely love mj. the first time i used it was when i was 15. i am now 20. i dont smoke too much (what is too much, really lol) i just smoke everyday.... i know, to some that might sound like "too much" but it definitely fits around my lifestyle.
-wake up
-school
-smoke
-hw
-smoke
-work
THE END.
when i smoke i feel like a slice of pie. (if you know what i mean.) im taking scriptwriting classes so i always smoke to get some ideas rolling. but i do not rely on it. as much i as love it, i dont.
mj is and will always be my friend. mmmmmmmmmm

[bleacheddecay]

You smoke twice a day, every day but you don't rely on it? Yes, that is difficult to believe.

[Equilibrium]

You smoke twice a day, every day but you don't rely on it? Yes, that is difficult to believe.

Well one thing is for sure, he can't be physically addicted to it. Thats a medical fact.

[Sedai]

You smoke twice a day, every day but you don't rely on it? Yes, that is difficult to believe.

Yeah - have a cup of coffee every single day, and I would say I rely on the caffeine to get me going each day.

That also means I don't see anything wrong with relying on anything. Lots of people rely on coffee, cigarettes, a drink at night to relax and many other things.

If the dude is taking care of his responsibilities, I see no issue with puffing here and there.

Then again, I am a smoker...so I am biased.

All my bills are paid, my house is clean, and my job is secure.

I am sure that fits into some statistic somewhere - probably a statistic a lot of people would chose to ignore.

[nebbit]

Well one thing is for sure, he can't be physically addicted to it. Thats a medical fact.
Well you can be dependant on it :yup: not having withdrawal symptoms doesn't mean that a person is not dependant :nope: as you probably know it is a fat soluble drug so it remains in the body for a longer period of time than a water soluble drug (e.g.. Heroin and Alcohol) Marijuana is excreted slowly out of the body so no severe symptoms occur
People who use it heavily usually have anxiety or sleeplessness if they stop suddenly. :yup:
I wouldn't consider 2 a day heavy use :nope:
In my work I have seen people who have up to 60 bongs a day :eek: now that is heavy :yup:

[bleacheddecay]

I would say it's not wrong to knowingly rely on something that still allows you to function in your life while you use it.

To post that you use something twice a day every day however but then to say you don't rely on it is pretty questionable, IMO. To say you do this to get your creative juices going further indicates a reliance, mostly likely a false one. Just like people often take substances to "have a good time", "relax" or "loosen up."

Twice a day is surely less than sixty a day but it still sounds like a lot to me. I tend to try to be careful of relying on things too much. That's why I strictly limit anything like this, including caffeine. I believe moderation is key for me. I learned a while ago that I don't need to drink, take anything, or toke, to enjoy my life.

[Harry Lime]

People who use it heavily usually have anxiety or sleeplessness if they stop suddenly. :yup:

Not this guy here. (insert smiley face here, shaking his head from side to side)

[Maxine Taurus]

I tried smoking weed twice, and the second time almost killed me. Guess I was too ignorant to know that tequila and a few tokes don't mix. When I went to the loo, a few minutes after, my ex saw me slumped on the toilet seat, ashen with my eyes rolled over.

Next thing I saw was him slumped over my body trying to resuscitate me, while eerily looking down from the bathroom ceiling. The next day, I barely even remembered what happened and he had to tell me how I nearly died.

Haven't touched the stuff since. Bad mojo for me.:(

[mark f]

What did you do? Drink a whole bottle of tequila?

[Classicqueen13]

To answer the thread title, no I haven't. I don't plan either. I don't have anything against people who do it; I just don't do it myself. It just doesn't appeal to me.

[Equilibrium]

The question of dependency has come up and i wanna add something. First off, no one should be dependent on any substance to "get by" in life. Generally speaking weed is used recreationally..to kill time or to have fun. I don't know of any marijuana users who in the absence of weed feel that their life is not complete or that something is wrong, but I would agree that in such cases marijuana use is bad. However, this is a moot point since you can say the same thing about any substance or anyTHING for that matter..ie If someone says that without the internet their life is miserable and incomplete then in this case internet use is "bad". As you can see the problem then lies with the user, not the substance or object. This is not the case with hard drugs like coke and herion which are physically and mentally harmful for you.

[bleacheddecay]

I've known people that live to get high on pot each evening and seem to have no other ambition.

I do agree that sometimes you need to cut the cord on whatever it is you think you need to get by and prove to yourself that you really don't need it.

[Maxine Taurus]

What did you do? Drink a whole bottle of tequila?

Hi, Mark,

Actually, no.. I just had a couple of shots of tequila and followed it through with a few puffs.. Next thing I knew was that I had to go to the loo and it all went downhill from there...

That taught me to never touch the stuff ever again.

[KasperKristensen]

I've been smoking hash pretty much every day for the past few weeks, most days before noon. This not having a job thing is a curse more than a blessing it seems. Anyway I didn't smoke yesterday nor today and it feels so good to get my mind back. What's so f*cking scary about this drug is that you don't realize how slow you become when you're on it. I think your mind could completely deteriorate without you even noticing in the long run. I'm very liberal when it comes to soft drugs but I think everyone should take breaks periodically just to check how they function without it. If you're struggling - stop. If you're fine - rock on man! I'll let you know in a couple of weeks.

[KasperKristensen]

This is not the case with hard drugs like coke and herion which are physically and mentally harmful for you.

You don't think THC is mentally harmful? Because that's, like, been proven and sh*t.

[Deadite]

I don't think THC is any more harmful than alcohol. Less, even.

[KasperKristensen]

Yeah alcohol is basically neurotoxin, I've heard. But I hate it when people use that as a pro-marijuana argument. "It's not as harmful as this neurotoxin. Or this anthrax. Or this gun." Come on.

[Sedai]

It definitely impairs people less, that's for sure.

[KasperKristensen]

It definitely impairs people less, that's for sure.

Which makes for heavier use, I think.

[Sedai]

Not at all. You can never get yourself to the point, like alcohol, where you can't walk straight, speak, or even see properly - that just never happens.

When I say impaired, I mean unable to function. People can smoke a little herb and still get mad buzzed, and they don't have to keep smoking over and over again, like folks tend to keep cracking beers. Meanwhile, they can speak and walk properly etc.

[KasperKristensen]

You've never been to Amsterdam have you mate? :D

I get what you're saying. It's not a drug where you need to have more and more, at least at first, but I promise you, that sometimes you can't function on weed, at least I can't. It's not as bad as alcohol and you can even drive on weed if your morals are loose and you're not too high, but you aint crisp. And like any drug, there comes a point where you're just too affected to even walk straight. For me, of course.

[KasperKristensen]

Funny story, I saw a guy in Amsterdam that was so stoned his buddy had to physically carry him down the street and people just started ganging up on him. "Why do you smoke like that, why do you smoke like that?" I was maybe a little less high than him, supporting myself against a wall, laughing my ass off. Goodtimes.

[Golgot]

You don't think THC is mentally harmful? Because that's, like, been proven and sh*t.

There's been some interesting work recently on how cannabinoids may temper the negative 'mental' effects of THC etc IE it's an antipsychotic (handy little link (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/192/4/306)). Problem is that since the rise of skunk everyone's soaked in a lot more THC than they used to be. The THC/CBD ratio is much higher. Certainly I've seen a lot more spun-out stoners since it's been the main toke of choice.

---

I stopped my '3 a day' habit around 5 years ago. Part of that was to do with skunk's ubiquity. I just didn't like the heaviness of its hit as my daily companion. (Altho to be honest, it was mainly just time. Anything habitual seems to stymie your creative side after a while ;))

[John McClane]

There are some mornings—after a heavy smoking session the night before—that I feel foggy and out of it. Honestly, I do hate that but I workout a lot, too, which counteracts those negative effects that I get from smoking. But yeah, I know I'm not as sharp as I used to be. However, it's nothing like when I drink. Oh man, that's bad.

[Yoda]

Still never taken so much as a puff. I've been around people smoking and there might have been enough in the air for me to be ever-so-slightly affected, but probably not really. I don't recall feeling any fundamentally different, except kind of nauseous, which always happens when I'm around a lot of smoke.

Still don't really mind or care if people do it.

Still can't come up with a reason I should, either.

[John McClane]

Nah, you can't get the effects from second hand smoke unless you're in a tiny air tight room.

I'll be honest, I do it because I like to relax and be intoxicated without the pain and risk that alcohol has to it. I'm probably at a point where I'm rather dependent on this stuff but I don't mind because I like it and it keeps me from drinking. I figure I'll have to quit this at some point, too, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there. :D

[Plainview]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2581/3679790119_a968546ff3.jpg

[ash_is_the_gal]

Yoda's last two sentences sum up my thoughts exactly.

[KasperKristensen]

Nah, you can't get the effects from second hand smoke unless you're in a tiny air tight room.

I'll be honest, I do it because I like to relax and be intoxicated without the pain and risk that alcohol has to it. I'm probably at a point where I'm rather dependent on this stuff but I don't mind because I like it and it keeps me from drinking. I figure I'll have to quit this at some point, too, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there. :D

Right there with ya buddy.

[Plainview]

Yoda's last two sentences sum up my thoughts exactly.
Mine as well. I tried as a kid it just did not really take for me.

[John McClane]

This is precisely why I cannot understand why we spend so much money fighting a plant. Because the effects of that plant are so subtle that if you're tightly attached to reality you can overlook them while smoking and miss them. Also, a burst of adrenaline can also make you miss the effects. How is that a dangerous substance that should never reach the hands of citizens? It would be like outlawing caffeine.

[KasperKristensen]

Aaaarh.

[John McClane]

Yeah, if you're hearing **** that isn't there you need to not be doing this stuff. Underlying mental disorders and s*** can have some serious problems with this stuff. The same way drinking can have a serious problem with someone with anger issues.

As for me, there's only been one or two times that I can recall where I turned into an absolute boob on the stuff. Normally, I function at a level where people don't even know I'm using it.

[ash_is_the_gal]

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7317/1303501235500.png

[Deadite]

Anything can be misused. If you have an addictive personality, especially, then it will probably become a problem.

Still doesn't change the basic fact that the government has no business stopping people from using because it is "unhealthy".

So is alcohol. So is McDonald's.

You can call it evil, you can call it stupid, you can twist and frame the argument all you want, but if it relaxes me and I want to do it, then it's none of your damn business.

[Yoda]

All true, but who actually gets defensive and argues with you if you say McDonald's isn't good for you?

[John McClane]

Still doesn't change the basic fact that the government has no business stopping people from using because it is "unhealthy".No, but it is its business to educate people about it, regulate it, and impose taxes on it. If something is scientifically proven to be unhealthy then people should be free to do it if they want but they must be willing to pay for it. That's the way I see it.

[Deadite]

All true, but who actually gets defensive and argues with you if you say McDonald's isn't good for you?

If you're characterizing my post as defensive, that's just your interpretation. I'm being assertive.

[Deadite]

No, but it is its business to educate people about it, regulate it, and impose taxes on it. If something is scientifically proven to be unhealthy then people should be free to do it if they want but they must be willing to pay for it. That's the way I see it.

I see no problem with that.

[rufnek]

Nah, you can't get the effects from second hand smoke unless you're in a tiny air tight room.

Once covered a trial of a young man busted for dealing drugs in which an undercover police agent testified witnessing the suspect blowing marijuana smoke in the face of his baby in its cradle and laughing at how the infant would react to getting high. Doubt if the room was tiny or airtight, but apparently dear ol' dad thought second-hand smoke was effective. Guess the jury did too--they threw that guy so far under the jailhouse they had to pipe sunlight to him.

However, I know from experience it's much easier to "kick" smoking pot than to quit smoking cigarettes.

[John McClane]

Oh, great. Now I have an underlying mental disorder. That's not what I meant to say. What I mean is if you're smoking and hearing things that aren't there you need to not be smoking because you could cause any possible family background problems to crop up that way. That's all I meant.

[John McClane]

Once covered a trial of a young man busted for dealing drugs in which an undercover police agent testified witnessing the suspect blowing marijuana smoke in the face of his baby in its cradle and laughing at how the infant would react to getting high. Doubt if the room was tiny or airtight, but apparently dear ol' dad thought second-hand smoke was effective. Guess the jury did too--they threw that guy so far under the jailhouse they had to pipe sunlight to him.Well yeah, in that case of course second hand smoke will do the job. If it's being blown into your face and into your lungs of course you'll get high. However, if you're just sitting in a room where it's floating around in the air, then no.

[Yoda]

If you're characterizing my post as defensive, that's just your interpretation. I'm being assertive.
I wasn't thinking of your post, specifically, when I said that, though I'd feel pretty comfortable interpreting "none of your damn business" as being defensive.

But the point was really just meant generally: if you imply to someone that McDonald's is unhealthy, you'll pretty much never get a defensive or argumentative response. If you imply that pot smoking isn't good for them, sometimes you will. Rationally I think we understand that it's reasonable to quantify both of them as different types of "junk food," but I don't think people's emotional reactions line up quite as consistently.

[rufnek]

Still doesn't change the basic fact that the government has no business stopping people from using because it is "unhealthy".

How do you stand on the issue of the government telling meatpackers they can't sell you rotten meat or cancerous chicken parts, not to mention banning over-the-counter medicines that are 90% alcohol or contain morphine, just because it's "unhealthy"?

[Deadite]

I have never been high and lost the understanding that I was high. That's part of the appeal.

I also have never heard of it causing psychosis. Perhaps if there are such people, I suggest that they may have had some mental or neurological disorder already present and their buzz simply triggered that, rather than it being a cause of psychosis in and of itself.

[Deadite]

How do you stand on the issue of the government telling meatpackers they can't sell you rotten meat or cancerous chicken parts, not to mention banning over-the-counter medicines that are 90% alcohol or contain morphine, just because it's "unhealthy"?

I think you're comparing apples and oranges just to create an argument out of thin air.

[Dog Star Man]

I stay away from it since, as I've discussed previously, I'm Bipolar I and the doctors suspect I may also have a mild version Schizophrenia. Last time I did marijuana I started hearing people taking to me in my head, all negative discourse, I began to feel uneasy in my body and I felt killing myself would be a nice option. So I had a suicide attempt which landed me in the mental hospital.

[KasperKristensen]

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7317/1303501235500.png

Ignorant and prejudiced.

[Deadite]

I wasn't thinking of your post, specifically, when I said that, though I'd feel pretty comfortable interpreting "none of your damn business" as being defensive.

Okay, let's say I'm defensive; What's your point? Where are you going with this?

Does that prove something to you?

Or you could take my word for it that I was being assertive. Why you would want to characterize my saying that it's no one's damn business as defensive is in and of itself an insinuation, in my interpretation of course.

But the point was really just meant generally: if you imply to someone that McDonald's is unhealthy, you'll pretty much never get a defensive or argumentative response. If you imply that pot smoking isn't good for them, sometimes you will. Rationally I think we understand that it's reasonable to quantify both of them as different types of "junk food," but I don't think people's emotional reactions line up quite as consistently.

I smoke cigarettes too. So? :p

[Yoda]

Ignorant and prejudiced.
I think it's just a joke.

I've met both kinds; the "live and let live" kind and the kind that seem to have some weird stake in convincing others to try it.

[TONGO]

Marijuana is not good for you. Booze isnt good for you. These arent opinions but facts of science. There are circumstances where both are beneficial, but weed/alcohol isnt some incredible plantstuff that makes your quality of life greater than someone that doesnt smoke, or drink.

Im a heavy weed user, with certain aspects of my life its a plus, but theres just been way too much drama surrounding weed. Make it legal and forget about it. It mellows you, makes you stupid, makes you hungry, makes food taste better, and yeah its great with sex - The End. There is no reason why this thread should be more than 1 page. Theres just not enough intelligent debate left on this subject.

Californias medicinal marijuana is abused, but the fact that weed is weed and not oxycotins (or whichever deadly painkiller) theres been no ill effect from it. Marijuana certainly doesnt challenge ones moral compass or ethics like booze would i.e. beginnings of criminal activity. If you are of the opinion that weed should be ilegal still than theres nothing more that can be said to you.

Any non-weeduser having heard this much text, tv, movies, conversations, or whatever on the subject must think "Well whats the deal with that?". If they then got some weed, went home alone, then smoked it theyd be underwhelmed. If they smoked it at a party then thats different. Its a mild enhancer compared to booze. People should not be imprisoned for that.

[ash_is_the_gal]

I think it's just a joke.

:)

[John McClane]

I think it's just a joke.

I've met both kinds; the "live and let live" kind and the kind that seem to have some weird stake in convincing others to try it.Sure, but it's a joke that spreads a prejudicial stereotype.

Besides, I've seen you slap a member with some words after they made a joke in bad taste, namely that Jesus statue a few years ago. This "it's just a joke" business is all well and good if it's done tastefully. And just slappin' a picture up with no setup or indication of its jokeness just doesn't fly as tasteful.

[KasperKristensen]

Aye.

[John McClane]

Marijuana is not good for you. Booze isnt good for you. These arent opinions but facts of science. There are circumstances where both are beneficial, but weed/alcohol isnt some incredible plantstuff that makes your quality of life greater than someone that doesnt smoke, or drink.

Im a heavy weed user, with certain aspects of my life its a plus, but theres just been way too much drama surrounding weed. Make it legal and forget about it. It mellows you, makes you stupid, makes you hungry, makes food taste better, and yeah its great with sex - The End. There is no reason why this thread should be more than 1 page. Theres just not enough intelligent debate left on this subject.

Californias medicinal marijuana is abused, but the fact that weed is weed and not oxycotins (or whichever deadly painkiller) theres been no ill effect from it. Marijuana certainly doesnt challenge ones moral compass or ethics like booze would i.e. beginnings of criminal activity. If you are of the opinion that weed should be ilegal still than theres nothing more that can be said to you.

Any non-weeduser having heard this much text, tv, movies, conversations, or whatever on the subject must think "Well whats the deal with that?". If they then got some weed, went home alone, then smoked it theyd be underwhelmed. If they smoked it at a party then thats different. Its a mild enhancer compared to booze. People should not be imprisoned for that.This x100.

[Yoda]

Okay, let's say I'm defensive; What's your point? Where are you going with this?

Does that prove something to you?
This almost feels like self-parody, where you're now acting intentionally defensive to make a joke out of it. But I honestly can't tell. If it is, feel free to ignore this response. :)

Anyway, all it would indicate to me is that junk food and pot aren't really the same. That people are more sensitive about the latter than the former.

Or you could take my word for it that I was being assertive. Why you would want to characterize my saying that it's no one's damn business as defensive is in and of itself an insinuation, in my interpretation of course.
This assumes deliberation. When someone says "none of your damn business," it strikes me as defensive immediately and totally. Heck, it's almost the quintessential defensive statement. Interpreting it this way doesn't even feel like a choice, really. But if you see it differently, then we just use the word very differently, I suppose.

I smoke cigarettes too. So? :p
Honestly, there's no "so." I have no other motive here. I really, genuinely, thoroughly do not care if someone wants to smoke pot. I'm just noting a disparity between how people talk about other habits (like eating out) and how they talk about smoking pot. Though they're often put side by side to make a point, I think the varying reactions they invoke suggests they're not really the same.

[Deadite]

I think it's just a joke.

I've met both kinds; the "live and let live" kind and the kind that seem to have some weird stake in convincing others to try it.

Dude, you have to try it. It will open your mind to the music of the spheres. Without it, you ignorantly walk through darkness without hope of ever freeing yourself from the matrix.

Don't be afraid, Yoda. It's THE FUTURE.

[Sleezy]

Don't smoke. Never have.

I wouldn't consider myself a zealot against pot, but I do think some genuine thought and consideration should be spent before we go legalizing the drug in the U.S. It might be "less harmful" than alcohol (though I'm not sure anyone can really define that further with any degree of consistency), but I think it's dangerous to start marginalizing any drug, regardless of how mildly it affects this person or that person. And I rather feel like alcohol is only legal because we've "grown up with it," so to speak, and it has become so financially entwined with our society that going backwards would be devastating to the economy (just as it was during Prohibition).

So I think there's danger in legalizing marijuana for the same reason, and for the simple fact that if used by irresponsible or mentally ill individuals, innocent people would pay a price. If pot does get legalized, we all know that not long after that, the first little girl will be killed by someone who was driving under the influence of pot... potentially someone who would have never touched the drug before.

I'm not sure that's worth the benefit people usually cite for smoking... expanded mind, altered state, everything is hilarious, chilling out. Nope, I wouldn't trade a life for those things.

[Yoda]

Sure, but it's a joke that spreads a prejudicial stereotype.

Besides, I've seen you slap a member with some words after they made a joke in bad taste, namely that Jesus statue a few years ago. This "it's just a joke" business is all well and good if it's done tastefully. And just slappin' a picture up with no setup or indication of its jokeness just doesn't fly as tasteful.
I'm not arguing that jokes are always okay just because they're jokes. I'm arguing that this joke is okay. And I think it is. I think it's obviously in jest, I know people who are kind of like that, and it's not about a terribly serious topic, nor does it advance some deeply damaging or painful stereotype, to my mind.

[Yoda]

Dude, you have to try it. It will open your mind to the music of the spheres. Without it, you ignorantly walk through darkness without hope of ever freeing yourself from the matrix.

Don't be afraid, Yoda. It's THE FUTURE.
"Whoa."

This part of pot smoking seems to be universal: the idea that you should make a point to experience various art forms while under its influence.

[Sleezy]

Also, now I kinda want to find the thread some stoner guy once posted in celebration of 4/20... three days after the date had passed. That was hilarious. :laugh:

[rufnek]

There are some mornings—after a heavy smoking session the night before—that I feel foggy and out of it. Honestly, I do hate that but I workout a lot, too, which counteracts those negative effects that I get from smoking. But yeah, I know I'm not as sharp as I used to be. However, it's nothing like when I drink. Oh man, that's bad.

Hmm, makes me wonder what qualifies as "a heavy smoking session" and how much you drink for it to become "bad." There's a hint there that maybe you're over-doing it, which is never good for anything.

It's been more than 45 years ago when I did marijuana and hasish in Germany. Usually it was two-three of us sitting in the barracks listening to jazz records and might smoke 1-2 joints. There was one time there were 5-6 of us smoking in a VW bug, and somebody decided we should go into the barracks. Think I must have been the last one out, know I was with the group in the backseat, and it was kind of a cold night as I recall, and as I was walking toward the barracks, I felt kind of odd and a little dizzy. Stopped to lean my back against a tree until my head cleared. Next thing I know is I'm looking up through the tree's bare branches at an ocean of stars. Felt something pressing against my back, head, legs--finally figured out I was lying on my back on the ground. Had passed out and fell. Of course, the rest of the crowd didn't even notice I was gone--pot smokers are not exactly reliable in a crisis.

I had a similar experience back in '79 when a polyp ruptured and I started bleeding internally. Passed out from that, too. As I recall, the two experiences didn't feel all that different.

Back in the Army, I also smoked cigarettes, so I didn't notice the pot smoke so much. Quit smoking pot a few weeks before I rotated home for discharge. Stopped smoking cigarettes a few years later. Some years ago I was around someone smoking pot and tried it again. Like to have coughed myself to death. Reminded me very much of the first time I smoked tobacco as a kid. Decided at that point that breathing in any kind of smoke is not all that good for my lungs, even when I was still working out.

[Yoda]

By the way, it feels bizarre trying to make a case for something I barely even care about. It makes me feel all bemused and detached. Odd.

[Deadite]

This almost feels like self-parody, where you're now acting intentionally defensive to make a joke out of it. But I honestly can't tell. If it is, feel free to ignore this response. :)

Anyway, all it would indicate to me is that junk food and pot aren't really the same. That people are more sensitive about the latter than the former.

Because there is something inherently wrong with smoking pot? Is that what you're trying to imply? :mad:

This assumes deliberation. When someone says "none of your damn business," it strikes me as defensive immediately and totally. Heck, it's almost the quintessential defensive statement. Interpreting it this way doesn't even feel like a choice, really. But if you see it differently, then we just use the word very differently, I suppose.

Whether I'm defensive or not IS NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS, Yoda! :p

Honestly, there's no "so." I have no other motive here. I really, genuinely, thoroughly do not care if someone wants to smoke pot. I'm just noting a disparity between how people talk about other habits (like eating out) and how they talk about smoking pot. Though they're often put side by side to make a point, I think the varying reactions they invoke suggests they're not really the same.

Well, if you really wanted to be fair, you have to consider the fact that people don't get thrown in jail for stuffing their face with McD's.

[John McClane]

Don't smoke. Never have.

I wouldn't consider myself a zealot against pot, but I do think some genuine thought and consideration should be spent before we go legalizing the drug in the U.S. It might be "less harmful" than alcohol (though I'm not sure anyone can really define that further with any degree of consistency), but I think it's dangerous to start marginalizing any drug, regardless of how mildly it affects this person or that person. And I rather feel like alcohol is only legal because we've "grown up with it," so to speak, and it has become so financially entwined with our society that going backwards would be devastating to the economy (just as it was during Prohibition).

So I think there's danger in legalizing marijuana for the same reason, and for the simple fact that if used by irresponsible or mentally ill individuals, innocent people would pay a price. If pot does get legalized, we all know that not long after that, the first little girl will be killed by someone who was driving under the influence of pot... potentially someone who would have never touched the drug before.

I'm not sure that's worth the benefit people usually cite for smoking... expanded mind, altered state, everything is hilarious, chilling out. Nope, I wouldn't trade a life for those things.That's a rather silly argument, I think. Why don't we ban caffeine and other OTC stimulants that keep people awake who normally wouldn't be driving tired? One of them will eventually fall asleep and kill a little girl, right?

[Godoggo]

My experience with marijuana depended on whatever kind of strain it was. I liked highs that were felt more in the mind -- those were bizarre and intriguing and really expanded my mind. I hated body highs, especially if the body high really weighed me down -- it would scare me and give me a lot of anxiety and make me think I had really messed myself up.

Back in the days when I used to do such things I would take anything and everything offered to me, except for marijuana for those reasons you mentioned. I remember one body high like you described and I never touched the stuff again. I could hear my heart beat and it felt like someone was sitting on my chest. There was a literal buzzing in my head and I couldn't get rid of it. It freaked me out. I'm not the only one I know that has had those experiences and I suspect body chemistry has more to do with it than anything else.

[Deadite]

By the way, it feels bizarre trying to make a case for something I barely even care about. It makes me feel all bemused and detached. Odd.

Maybe it was something you smoked? :eek:

[John McClane]

Hmm, makes me wonder what qualifies as "a heavy smoking session" and how much you drink for it to become "bad." There's a hint there that maybe you're over-doing it, which is never good for anything.A heavy smoking session would probably be starting at 6 o'clock and smoking every hour on the hour until midnight. I rarely do that these days, but I used to do it everyday. Very nasty side effects and yes, I was over-doing it. That's why I started exercising and cutting the amount I smoked and I've honestly never been happier nor have I ever felt better.

As for drinking, anything over 4 or 5 drinks within the first two hours is bad and over-doing it. When I drink, I tend to do that every time, which then means I'm more likely to drink even more after those are done. Very, very nasty.

My point was that when I over-do marijuana it's easily counteracted with exercise. The same cannot be said about alcohol.

[TONGO]

Ffs.....a non-cigarette smoker would vote to ban cigarrettes. Theyve already done it in restaurants and most indoor public domiciles. Smoking is annoying to people. I understand. I never try and disturb someone with my smoke. A non-weeduser sees no reason whatsoever to change the current legal landscape. Why would they? Theres no argument to be made because the facts are being stoned makes you less than 100% and that effects all areas of life. Shopuld it be illegal though - no. It just is not a threat to society.

[Sleezy]

That's a rather silly argument, I think. Why don't we ban caffeine and other OTC stimulants that keep people awake who normally wouldn't be driving tired? One of them will eventually fall asleep and kill a little girl, right?

Well, if you ask me, I think caffeine is just as dangerous. Again, it's the kind of thing that's been used for years in various products before people knew any better (we all know cocaine used to be the principal ingredient in Coca-Cola) and it's such a lucrative drug now that we won't see it banned. In excess, I'm not sure it inebriates people as much as pot does, but the physical dangers are pretty substantive. I don't drink anything that's caffeinated anyway, so I'm probably not the best person to argue the merits of caffeine.

And let's face it, marijuana is only illegal because the government can't regulate (and therefore, make money on) something that can simply grow in people's backyards. I'm just saying it's ludicrous that our vices are legal and killing us because we lack the ability to separate them from, ironically, the health of our economy.

[rufnek]

Ignorant and prejudiced.

Oh, I don't know. I remember getting high in Germany with a buddy and laughing at and making jokes about people who would walk by. We thought we were hilarious. Later I heard pot-heads doing the same thing, and they were not funny at all. I don't understand where anybody ever got the idea that being high made you more creative. I've found folks usually are not up to par in what they do when high. I don't believe drugs give you any insight at all.

I've always liked that old joke about all the Grateful Dead folks finally get off drugs and suddenly realize what a lousy band they were! :laugh:

As for some folks who think doing drugs somehow make them to be daring and manly, I did pot on an Army base in Germany where the Army could enter our barracks room and go through everything we had night or day, no warrant needed. Often did it in plain sight--at least on a drill field you can see anyone approaching, but that won't get the grains out of your pocket seams or the evidence out of your pee. Having done it under those conditions, I think it would be kinda girly to do it in civilian life where you got places to hide and protections of privacy.

[Godoggo]

A non-weeduser sees no reason whatsoever to change the current legal landscape. Why would they?

There are many people who do not smoke marijuana and are pro legalization. I'm one of them.

[Deadite]

Whatever happened to defending the freedom of others, even when it's something you yourself don't necessarily agree with?

Nowadays, seems like everybody wants a dictatorship, just as long as it's their dictatorship.

[John McClane]

Whatever happened to defending the freedom of others, even when it's something you yourself don't necessarily agree with?

Nowadays, seems like everybody wants a dictatorship, just as long as it's their dictatorship.There's a difference between defending someone's freedom that destroys your community and defending someone's freedom that does not destroy your community. I argue that marijuana is part of the latter and thus should not be unfairly targeted by the state. Graffiti or state funded abortions, for example, do destroy the community so I don't protect those people's "freedom."

[Deadite]

There's a difference between defending someone's freedom that destroys your community and defending someone's freedom that does not destroy your community. I argue that marijuana is part of the latter and thus should not be unfairly targeted by the state...

snip

This part I think I can go along with.

[Godoggo]

I'm actually a very introverted person. I don't always readily get in touch with my feelings --

Me too. Extremely so sometimes. That was probably another problem that I had with it. I was so hyper aware of myself that I was just miserable. I just wanted to giggle and get the munchies like everyone else, but I felt like I was trapped in my own personal hell of self analysis and buzzing brain. Not good times. :(

[KasperKristensen]

I'm going to ignore the political aspects of it. It shouldn't be a political problem and it only is because we made it one. The side effects and consequences of THC have been thoroughly and scientifically documented and the results are unquestionably in - it makes you dumb. But for God's sake, it's my mind and I'll do whatever I want with it. It's one of these awful, nursing laws that I think, frankly, humanity is too grown up for. Laws should prohibit individuals from harming other individuals but not the individual itself, assuming said individual is of age. It's my life, I can take it. It's my pregnancy, I can make it go away. It's my body, I can sell it and pay taxes, It's my mind, I can cloud it. Stay the hell out of my business.

EDIT: BUT! I'm not saying legalize the sell of marijuana. That's potentially harmful to other people and their children. I'm saying legalize the use of marijuana and there is a difference. If I grow my own stuff, which in Denmark is illegal, and use it only for personal, recreational purposes, I'm not hurting anyone. I was out on the lake in a rubber boat with my buddy last summer. We had a six pack of beer, a roll of biscuits, some cheese and a pack of four joints. And we were bopping around on a public lake, getting high, singing songs and minding our own business. And then my buddy pointed out that we weren't hurting or bothering anyone and he couldn't understand why it was illegal to spend a lovely Sunday afternoon having fun. And he was right! Look at the Netherlands. A well functioning society capable of having enough sense and toleration to allow prostitution and soft drugs. Amsterdam has a booming tourist industry and it's a hell of a good time. Though I'm thankful that there's only few places in the world like that and I still don't condone the sell of marijuana and soft drugs, it's undeniable that a country, a people, can function well even though they buy and consume THC.

[Sleezy]

Again, I'm not out there marching against marijuana, but I've seen friends fall into pot and they're losers now. Granted, obviously not all pot users are wastes of space, but it was a poor influence for these guys and has been a poor influence for plenty of people in this country. They're not hurting the community, per se, but you can't blame me for wanting to see my friends actually pick themselves up and be proactive about their lives... if anything for the relief of their families. I rather think they should have a voice too.

Also, a few years ago, near my house, some teenagers who were driving drunk and high ran through a dead end and ended up in someone's living room. The police said they were so wasted that they didn't even know they were operating a car. These two substances are terrible when mixed together and abused; I don't want to imagine if both were legal.

Just a few examples of how I've seen the drug do harm, for what it's worth. :shrug:

EDIT: Oh, one of the previously mentioned friends also tried to explain to me once that driving high was perfectly safe. His reasoning, verbatim, was this: "Dude, if anything it makes you more careful, because you don't want to be caught driving while high." :facepalm:

[Deadite]

Yeah, but like, um, you know...

Wait, what were we talking about, again?

[Deadite]

Sorry about that. But seriously...

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/5/17/imsohigh128554961643954279.jpg

[John McClane]

One argument that I will never agree with is "It's my body and I'll do what I want with it." Your body is part of a collective state/community and when you destroy or damage it you cause the community as a whole to pick up your slack. So no, I don't care if it's your body and this is why I think people should be forced to pay for things that they know hurt them, which is why the government only has the obligation to educate us, regulate for safety, and then tax us. I would gladly pay an extra health insurance tax for smoking marijuana because I know that if 45-50 years from now it gives me cancer or something that I will be dependent on my community to help me.

People should never be forced to change, but we should at least make it inconvenient for them to not change. Bring on the soda tax!

[Deadite]

One argument that I will never agree with is "It's my body and I'll do what I want with it." Your body is part of a collective state/community and when you destroy or damage it you cause the community as a whole to pick up your slack. So no, I don't care if it's your body and this is why I think people should be forced to pay for things that they know hurt them, which is why the government only has the obligation to educate us, regulate for safety, and then tax us. I would gladly pay an extra health insurance tax for smoking marijuana because I know that if 45-50 years from now it gives me cancer or something that I will be dependent on my community to help me.

People should never be forced to change, but we should at least make it inconvenient for them to not change. Bring on the soda tax!

"I am John McClane of The Borg.

Resistance is futile."

[KasperKristensen]

One argument that I will never agree with is "It's my body and I'll do what I want with it." Your body is part of a collective state/community and when you destroy or damage it you cause the community as a whole to pick up your slack. So no, I don't care if it's your body and this is why I think people should be forced to pay for things that they know hurt them, which is why the government only has the obligation to educate us, regulate for safety, and then tax us. I would gladly pay an extra health insurance tax for smoking marijuana because I know that if 45-50 years from now it gives me cancer or something that I will be dependent on my community to help me.

People should never be forced to change, but we should at least make it inconvenient for them to not change. Bring on the soda tax!

Bullspit! I, as a user, am fully capable of taking care of myself, having a job and paying taxes. If I get cancer from smoking weed, it's no different from the cancer I get from legal cigarettes. Alcohol and not wearing a condom are just as capable of hurting me and making me a burden to the state as THC is. People get sick and need help - that's a fact of life. How that happens doesn't matter.

[Sleezy]

I would gladly pay an extra health insurance tax for smoking marijuana because I know that if 45-50 years from now it gives me cancer or something that I will be dependent on my community to help me.

Wait a minute. You're saying you want everyone else to stay healthy (by way of discouraging taxes on vices) and thus pay more into healthcare so you can smoke for 45-50 years and then use that money to treat the cancer you get from it?

[Yoda]

I think MattJohn's point about the collective is most evident in hard drugs like heroine. There is a certain point at which what you do to your body becomes much more likely to harm others. This is why it's not just illegal to hit someone while speeding, but to speed at all. Or why it's illegal not just to crash into someone while drunk, but to be driving drunk at all. The principle of "it's my body and it's not your business unless I hurt you" logically means all drugs should be legal and there should be no drunk driving laws or speed limits, since they only punish people for creating the circumstances in which others might be harmed, but don't always actually harm anyone.

The idea of aggravated assault disappears, too. There are countless legal scenarios where we penalize people preemptively for merely making harm much more likely, even if it doesn't happen. It's one of the reasons you can't wave a gun in someone's face.

Now, pot may fall well, well short of this standard. But the point is only that there is a standard, and that it's not enough to just say "it's nobody's business but my own." The real disagreement is about when we should or should not punish someone for merely making harm more likely.

[Yoda]

Bumper-sticker version of my thoughts on pot:

Puff puff? Pass.

[Deadite]

If you're going to talk about endangering people, you may as well include guns and alcohol and cigarettes. Why stop at the stuff that's already illegal? You're much more likely to get shot than ran over by some dumb stoner. And you're more likely to get hit by a drunk too.

Cigarettes? Why should I even bother explaining this?

It's all hypocrisy, people using scare tactics, what-if scenarios to pad out their personal bias.

It's.....reefer madness.

[KasperKristensen]

I think MattJohn's point about the collective is most evident in hard drugs like heroine. There is a certain point at which what you do to your body becomes much more likely to harm others. This is why it's not just illegal to hit someone while speeding, but to speed at all. Or why it's illegal not just to crash into someone while drunk, but to be driving drunk at all. The principle of "it's my body and it's not your business unless I hurt you" logically means all drugs should be legal and there should be no drunk driving laws or speed limits, since they only punish people for creating the circumstances in which others might be harmed, but don't always actually harm anyone.


No. There should definitely be laws prohibiting drunk or stoned driving because there's a solid risk of someone else getting hurt, like with speeding. If I get stoned in the privacy of my own home who's at risk? I get the whole thing with heroine but this is not applicable to THC.

[Yoda]

I really think you guys are missing what MattJohn actually said. He didn't say marijuana meets this standard. He's saying, in general, he finds the "it's my body and I'll do what I want with it" argument to be full of holes. Marijuana shouldn't be legal because you have no obligation to others -- you absolutely do. It should be legal because you don't think it violates that obligation.

And it should. In case there's any confusion, I believe both MattJohn and myself think it should be legal. But that doesn't mean it's the same as X, or that argument Y necessarily holds water.

[DexterRiley]

One argument that I will never agree with is "It's my body and I'll do what I want with it." Your body is part of a collective state/community and when you destroy or damage it you cause the community as a whole to pick up your slack. So no, I don't care if it's your body and this is why I think people should be forced to pay for things that they know hurt them, which is why the government only has the obligation to educate us, regulate for safety, and then tax us. I would gladly pay an extra health insurance tax for smoking marijuana because I know that if 45-50 years from now it gives me cancer or something that I will be dependent on my community to help me.

People should never be forced to change, but we should at least make it inconvenient for them to not change. Bring on the soda tax!

marijuana hasnt given anyone in Cancer in thousands of years. Why do u think it will occur just to you and in just 45-50 years?

Your post reeks of ignorance.

Speaking for myself, I have bursitis (Arthritic hip condition), as well as arthritis in my knees and shoulders.

I can get a prescription for synthetic heroin, but the pills upset my stomach and play havok with my bowel movements. eww i know, but whatever.

Marijuana takes care of the pain without any side effects whatsoever, unless you count a craving peanut buster parfaits a bad thing.

Like alcohol, which i also partake in now and then, it is a drug and as such the consumption must be done so responsibly, ie do not drive under the influence.

[Sedai]

One argument that I will never agree with is "It's my body and I'll do what I want with it." Your body is part of a collective state/community and when you destroy or damage it you cause the community as a whole to pick up your slack. So no, I don't care if it's your body and this is why I think people should be forced to pay for things that they know hurt them, which is why the government only has the obligation to educate us, regulate for safety, and then tax us. I would gladly pay an extra health insurance tax for smoking marijuana because I know that if 45-50 years from now it gives me cancer or something that I will be dependent on my community to help me.

People should never be forced to change, but we should at least make it inconvenient for them to not change. Bring on the soda tax!

Yikes! I am so not on board with any of this.

"Fast Food has been deemed bad for you - therefore illegal." - Some parody of a fascist regime in some sci-fi satire.

Why do these people get to decide what is good and bad for me? Just who the F are they that they are superior in their decision making about how I should live my life? Some people in New York think dancing is bad for the community. Some other people think it's bad for the community to paint wooden ducks blue. Just keep in mind, whole slews of people think Religion is bad for the world, while another group thinks science is the end of all things. It;s good that the government can;t just come along and lock all this **** down, telling us it's bad for us.

Yeah - my my body, my domain (to the greatest extent it can be these days...)

[KasperKristensen]

The question of dependency has come up and i wanna add something. First off, no one should be dependent on any substance to "get by" in life.

What a bleak and grey world those people must live in. Don't we live for substances? Aren't we always chasing that high of love, of beauty, of life?

[Deadite]

I notice it usually comes down to some absurd all-or-nothing stance with anti-marijuana arguments. As if it will end civilization as we know it. As if we must throw out all regulations and live in a barbaric mad max anarchy if, God forbid, weed were legal.

[Yoda]

I think you guys are confusing "hey, this doesn't make sense" for "hey, this doesn't make sense, therefore I disagree with your conclusion." Has anyone in the last 4-5 pages actually suggested pot should be illegal, for example?

[Yoda]

What a bleak and grey world those people must live in. Don't we live for substances? Aren't we always chasing that high of love, of beauty, of life?
I wouldn't call any of those things substances. And I think everyone's cool with natural highs.

[Deadite]

Yikes! I am so not on board with any of this.

"Fast Food has been deemed bad for you - therefore illegal." - Some parody of a fascist regime in some sci-fi satire.

Why do these people get to decide what is good and bad for me? Just who the F are they that they are superior in their decision making about how I should live my life? Some people in New York think dancing is bad for the community. Some other people think it's bad for the community to paint wooden ducks blue. Just keep in mind, whole slews of people think Religion is bad for the world, while another group thinks science is the end of all things. It;s good that the government can;t just come along and lock all this **** down, telling us it's bad for us.

Yeah - my my body, my domain (to the greatest extent it can be these days...)

That sounds defensive.

And rightfully so. :)

[Deadite]

I think you guys are confusing "hey, this doesn't make sense" for "hey, this doesn't make sense, therefore I disagree with your conclusion." Has anyone in the last 4-5 pages actually suggested pot should be illegal, for example?

I can't speak for anyone else, Yoda, but I'm just putting my thoughts out there. I don't really know what you're getting hung up on exactly.

[Sleezy]

If I get stoned in the privacy of my own home who's at risk?

I worry less about people getting stoned in their own house and more about them making the inebriated decision to leave their house. I hope you don't take that as a personal attack on your conduct or ability to be responsible. I'm sure you're a responsible individual. As a general rule, though, I just don't really trust anyone who doesn't have their wits about them, whether it's from alcohol, drug use, or anything else.

[Yoda]

I can't speak for anyone else, Yoda, but I'm just putting my thoughts out there. I don't really know what you're getting hung up on exactly.
Well, in defending part of MattJohn's post I noted that the logical consequence of the "I should be allowed to do what I want if it doesn't harm anyone else" school of thought is that it leads to the legalization of all drugs. You very shortly thereafter posted something addressed to no one in particular talking about how you think it's silly that people use all-or-nothing claims when discussing pot. So it seemed connected.

If it was just some random thought, that works just as well. But at least one person is definitely misunderstanding the first part of MattJohn's claim. Possibly more, so I thought it best to similarly address my response to no one in particular, because I wasn't sure who thought what.

The second part -- the idea of taxing people more for certain behaviors -- is another thing entirely.

[Deadite]

http://www.nextmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/mad-max-tina-turner-everett-300.jpg

Never mention Mad Max when I'm around. I will always send for Tina.

They made me do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gi_IGuKx4U

[KasperKristensen]

I worry less about people getting stoned in their own house and more about them making the inebriated decision to leave their house. I hope you don't take that as a personal attack on your conduct or ability to be responsible. I'm sure you're a responsible individual. As a general rule, though, I just don't really trust anyone who doesn't have their wits about them, whether it's from alcohol, drug use, or anything else.

Not at all, I agree these people exist. But the problem is their mentality and not the drug itself.

[Sedai]

Oh, I know Matt's thoughts on Weed - I think we agree there. My comments are related in a more general sense to the domains of my mind and body.

Regarding English philosopher John Locke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke): According to his principle of the social contract (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract), Locke argued that the government lacked authority in the realm of individual conscience, as this was something rational people could not cede to the government for it or others to control. For Locke, this created a natural right in the liberty of conscience, which he argued must therefore remain protected from any government authority. These views on religious tolerance and the importance of individual conscience, along with his social contract, became particularly influential in the American colonies and the drafting of the United States Constitution.

I may a Libertarian, but Locke was the MAN!


I see my body as a direct and intrinsically connected vessel of my conscience.


I managed to trash my fonts in this post - Oops!

[DexterRiley]

I worry less about people getting stoned in their own house and more about them making the inebriated decision to leave their house. As a general rule, though, I just don't really trust anyone who doesn't have their wits about them, whether it's from alcohol, drug use, or anything else.

Alcohol is drug use.

Do you never leave your house then? If you do, are you constantly afraid of the menace that may befall you?

As a general rule i mean.

[Yoda]

For the record, there are, in many places, laws about being intoxicated in public. Which I think is perfectly reasonable.

[DexterRiley]

i admit i havent read each and every page of this thread, so if its been posted already i apologize.

http://makeshiftrecords.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/americas-drug-war-the-lkast-white-hope-doc.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyuBuT_7I4

[Deadite]

Natural highs don't exist -- at least, they're not really "highs". Never buy into that bologna about attaining something similar to a THC high (or something else) just by appreciating simple things -- a real high will always do more, in most cases. I don't mean to be bleak or downgrade natural living, but a "high" is more transcendent, or trippy, usually.

God, I sound awful, but it's true.

Not true, I started out getting high on life. I was a young man, living carefree, heedless of the consequences. Unfortunately, life turned out to be a gateway drug.

Cut to ten years later, I'm living in an alley and freebasing Jesus. But that's a story for another time.

[Sleezy]

Why do these people get to decide what is good and bad for me? Just who the F are they that they are superior in their decision making about how I should live my life? Some people in New York think dancing is bad for the community. Some other people think it's bad for the community to paint wooden ducks blue. Just keep in mind, whole slews of people think Religion is bad for the world, while another group thinks science is the end of all things. It;s good that the government can;t just come along and lock all this **** down, telling us it's bad for us.

Yeah - my my body, my domain (to the greatest extent it can be these days...)

I get what you're saying, and in principle I agree. But in the case of, say, foods that are high in fat and cholesterol, it's been proven to cause obesity and increase the risk of heart attack. No interpretation there; only your decision to heed the warning or chow down.

And when I worked with kids, I saw plenty of parents slamming their kids with Happy Meals and KFC. Sure, adults can and should be able to eat as many cheeseburgers and fried chicken as they want. But kids know only what their parents are giving them, and what companies like McDonald's and Hershey are marketing to them.

[Deadite]

Well, in defending part of MattJohn's post I noted that the logical consequence of the "I should be allowed to do what I want if it doesn't harm anyone else" school of thought is that it leads to the legalization of all drugs. You very shortly thereafter posted something addressed to no one in particular talking about how you think it's silly that people use all-or-nothing claims when discussing pot. So it seemed connected.

If it was just some random thought, that works just as well. But at least one person is definitely misunderstanding the first part of MattJohn's claim. Possibly more, so I thought it best to similarly address my response to no one in particular, because I wasn't sure who thought what.

The second part -- the idea of taxing people more for certain behaviors -- is another thing entirely.

Ah, I see what the problem is. You're being too logical.

[Sleezy]

Not at all, I agree these people exist. But the problem is their mentality and not the drug itself.

Eh, neither of us are psychologists, so I hesitate to get into that. But I seem to read a lot about how drugs are often the catalyst for underlying mental issues to unlock themselves and, conversely, those issues are the reason they started using drugs in the first place. I'm not sure you can really put one before the other, and I'm betting we can both agree that the drug use (whether it's pot, alcohol, cocain, meth, whatever) doesn't help matters anyway.


Alcohol is drug use.

Do you never leave your house then? If you do, are you constantly afraid of the menace that may befall you?

Again, I'd rather prefer that alcohol was illegal too, so there's no hypocrisy here.

And yes, of course I leave my house. No, I don't live in constant fear of misfortune. But that doesn't negate my belief that we're better off when people can't as easily inebriate themselves with substances and go out in public, increasing the risk of harm to themselves or others.

[Deadite]

A stunning statement.

I haven't even told you the part about my knife fight with the hamburglar over a sack of big macs.

[Deadite]

I get what you're saying, and in principle I agree. But in the case of, say, foods that are high in fat and cholesterol, it's been proven to cause obesity and increase the risk of heart attack. No interpretation there; only your decision to heed the warning or chow down.

And when I worked with kids, I saw plenty of parents slamming their kids with Happy Meals and KFC. Sure, adults can and should be able to eat as many cheeseburgers and fried chicken as they want. But kids know only what their parents are giving them, and what companies like McDonald's and Hershey are marketing to them.

So basically, you seem to be saying children shouldn't be able to smoke pot.

What a revelation.

[Yoda]

Ah, I see what the problem is. You're being too logical.
Fixed. :)

[KasperKristensen]

I haven't even told you the part about my knife fight with the hamburglar over a sack of big macs.

:laugh:

[KasperKristensen]

For the record, there are, in many places, laws about being intoxicated in public. Which I think is perfectly reasonable.

Sure. :)

[Sleezy]

So basically, you seem to be saying children shouldn't be able to smoke pot.

What a revelation.

Um, why act like a punk?

If you go back and read Sedai's post, he was talking about how he should be able to do whatever he wants to his body, and he used a parody of fast food to illustrate his point. While I agree with him in principle, I decided to use the fast food issue to point out that it's not always that easy. Sometimes, like in the case of fast food, the thing is harmful and finds its way into the hands of those who are dependent on others and can't make the "by God, I'm American" choice for themselves.

It had nothing to do with pot. So you missed my point entirely. And you were rude about it.

[KasperKristensen]

I wonder what this discussion would be like if everybody was smoking pot at the same time. Is anybody here smoking right now or has been while talking in or reading this thread? Curious.

Yes. Well no, a buddy came over earlier so I've been under the influence this entire time.

[KasperKristensen]

You know, when you recommended that One Piece: Strong World movie to me and I checked out a little of it, I thought it was the kind of movie you'd probably enjoy stoned.

Did you ever watch A Nightmare on Elm Street? I should have recommended something more marijuana-ish for you, but I suppose that could work - I've never seen that stoned, though.

No I haven't yet for exactly that reason. I want to give it a decent review and I forget stuff when I watch movies high.

[Deadite]

Um, why act like a punk?

If you go back and read Sedai's post, he was talking about how he should be able to do whatever he wants to his body, and he used a parody of fast food to illustrate his point. While I agree with him in principle, I decided to use the fast food issue to point out that it's not always that easy. Sometimes, like in the case of fast food, the thing is harmful and finds its way into the hands of those who are dependent on others and can't make the "by God, I'm American" choice for themselves.

It had nothing to do with pot. So you missed my point entirely. And you were rude about it.

Why so pissy?

I guess I assumed your post was relevant to the topic of legalizing marijuana. You now say it isn't. My bad.

Unless of course: "Sometimes, like in the case of fast food, the thing is harmful and finds its way into the hands of those who are dependent on others"

means exactly what you claim to not mean. Huh, you don't make no darn sense, bub.

Sounds like an appeal to protecting minors by keeping pot illegal to me. Hopefully not, because that would be a stupid argument.

So, anyway, are you for outlawing unhealthy stuff?

[John McClane]

While you may be sort of right, I disagree with giving others complete control of yourself. It should be work both ways, honestly -- if people wanna try to make it inconvenient to let others control them, why not do so? The "community" isn't always right - and is living based on their own peceptions and biases of the times. You're in a way saying it's okay if people wanna make it inconvenient for, say, two people of the same sex to get married, because it might not be good for the community.

I don't agree with that way of thinking. I think it's disgusting. We had no choice in being born into this world and neither did the community and the people in power. While there can be methods of control, for the most part, people are gonna do what they're gonna do and only the strongest will attain power.Who said anything about giving complete control of yourself to someone else? I'm not saying the community gets to decide what they think is destructive or not destructive. What I am saying is there are things that are unquestionably destructive to a community and thus, should be illegal. If something is in a much grayer area, like pot and alcohol, it should be taxed. I don't see anything wrong with this line of thinking.

If you never drink alcohol you will never die or kill someone from drunk driving, but you could be killed by someone else who's drunk driving. Is this destructive to a community? Yes, that's why it is illegal to drink and drive. However, it's also destructive to a community when, say, you eat fast food all the time, become obese, and then have government funds pay for your health services. That destroys the community, too, but is easily counteracted with taxation.

It's your body and you can eat all the fast food you want, but you had better be able to pay for the health services yourself. Otherwise, you need to pay a tax.

Bullspit! I, as a user, am fully capable of taking care of myself, having a job and paying taxes. If I get cancer from smoking weed, it's no different from the cancer I get from legal cigarettes. Alcohol and not wearing a condom are just as capable of hurting me and making me a burden to the state as THC is. People get sick and need help - that's a fact of life. How that happens doesn't matter.How it happens does matter. It's my own decision to eat fast food and become overweight, and a logical possibility of that is I might die or need assistance from my healthcare or family for treatment. This is why taxing things like soda make perfect sense. They have absolutely no value to them in their own right, which cannot be said for things like vegetables and Tylenol.

Wait a minute. You're saying you want everyone else to stay healthy (by way of discouraging taxes on vices) and thus pay more into healthcare so you can smoke for 45-50 years and then use that money to treat the cancer you get from it?No, I'm saying I'd be happy to pay a tax myself that will pay for my cancer treatment when I get it from my decision to smoke.

If you're going to talk about endangering people, you may as well include guns and alcohol and cigarettes. Why stop at the stuff that's already illegal? You're much more likely to get shot than ran over by some dumb stoner. And you're more likely to get hit by a drunk too.This is why we should and do tax them. If something is fundamentally dangerous to an individual's health than they need to be educated about it so they can make the decision themselves. However, that does not mean that they can skirt by on the community's assistance without putting money into the community for their habit.

No. There should definitely be laws prohibiting drunk or stoned driving because there's a solid risk of someone else getting hurt, like with speeding. If I get stoned in the privacy of my own home who's at risk? I get the whole thing with heroine but this is not applicable to THC.The research is not conclusive enough to say that no one will NEVER get cancer from smoking pot. Cancer treatments are not cheap. If you have health insurance that pays for it then you should be required to pay a tax for your decision to smoke weed because it increases your chances of becoming ill. Because rates will and go up when we're paying for other people's decisions.

marijuana hasnt given anyone in Cancer in thousands of years. Why do u think it will occur just to you and in just 45-50 years?

Your post reeks of ignorance.No, we don't know if marijuana hasn't given cancer to anyone at anytime, which is why I said IF I was to get it because I think it's unlikely that it will cause cancer. However, until it's proven definitely that it does not cause cancer we have to treat it the same way we treat ciggerattes, which is you're inhaling toxic substances that COULD cause problems later down the road. I could develop asthma because of it for all we know.

Speaking for myself, I have bursitis (Arthritic hip condition), as well as arthritis in my knees and shoulders.

Marijuana takes care of the pain without any side effects whatsoever, unless you count a craving peanut buster parfaits a bad thing.That's why I wouldn't tax you because you're using it medically.

For the record, there are, in many places, laws about being intoxicated in public. Which I think is perfectly reasonable.Aye, precisely because having a bunch of drunk people stumbling around is damaging to the community in the same way homelessness is damaging to a community, which is why we should try our hardest to fight it.

I get what you're saying, and in principle I agree. But in the case of, say, foods that are high in fat and cholesterol, it's been proven to cause obesity and increase the risk of heart attack. No interpretation there; only your decision to heed the warning or chow down.

And when I worked with kids, I saw plenty of parents slamming their kids with Happy Meals and KFC. Sure, adults can and should be able to eat as many cheeseburgers and fried chicken as they want. But kids know only what their parents are giving them, and what companies like McDonald's and Hershey are marketing to them.And this is precisely why I think people should be taxed for eating/doing things we know for a fact as dangerous. Wouldn't more people stop and think about what they're doing to themselves if they had a tax on the dangerous things? I certainly know I would.

[DexterRiley]

Eh, neither of us are psychologists, so I hesitate to get into that. But I seem to read a lot about how drugs are often the catalyst for underlying mental issues to unlock themselves and, conversely, those issues are the reason they started using drugs in the first place. I'm not sure you can really put one before the other, and I'm betting we can both agree that the drug use (whether it's pot, alcohol, cocain, meth, whatever) doesn't help matters anyway.




Again, I'd rather prefer that alcohol was illegal too, so there's no hypocrisy here.

And yes, of course I leave my house. No, I don't live in constant fear of misfortune. But that doesn't negate my belief that we're better off when people can't as easily inebriate themselves with substances and go out in public, increasing the risk of harm to themselves or others.

Well seeing as Alcohol isn't going to be bannished anytime soon despite the thousands of deaths associated directly with its use each year, that presents quite the quandary.

[KasperKristensen]

Jason, I don't want to watch a horror while high. :D

[Deadite]

No I haven't yet for exactly that reason. I want to give it a decent review and I forget stuff when I watch movies high.

Don't mean to cut in, but this make me think a thread about watching movies while high would be cool.

Unless I already made one and forgot. :eek:

[Deadite]

This is why we should and do tax them. If something is fundamentally dangerous to an individual's health than they need to be educated about it so they can make the decision themselves. However, that does not mean that they can skirt by on the community's assistance without putting money into the community for their habit.



I meant endangering people other than the user.

[John McClane]

I meant endangering people other than the user.You're missing the bigger picture, though. The community/state has fundamental services that it renders to everyone regardless of whether or not they can pay for it. If you do something that causes us to pay more money into those services than you should be taxed for it.

[ash_is_the_gal]

I can't speak for anyone else, Yoda, but I'm just putting my thoughts out there. I don't really know what you're getting hung up on exactly.

i think what Yoda's trying to say is that most people in this thread don't actually feel, necessarily, that pot should be illegal. rather, it seems most people contributing are discussing/arguing about why it isn't legal, why it should be illegal, and also, what needs to be done if ever it were to become legal. a lot of people may be assuming that anyone who throws up a con against the legalization is also saying "weed is bad"; but they aren't, really. at least no one has said as much yet.

have they? :indifferent: