The MoFo Movie Club Discussion: The Fall

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The Fall was directed by Tarsem, and Indian director who works in commercials, music videos, and film, introduced himself to most of us with The Cell, starring Jennifer Lopez. Visually interesting, and not much else. For his second film, The Fall, he spent 4 years shooting in 24 countries to realize the specific foreign backdrops he had in mind. In an interview he said “I made it a period film as I was interested in doing it as if two people are from completely different cultures -- one person telling a story and the other person completely understands it as something else. As if there were no genres, as if it was a time before Chaplin and John Ford. I was looking for a kind of misunderstanding.” Largely financed by Tarsem himself, cast and crew were paid equal wages, and because of the many locations and little funds there’s virtually no CGI.




On to the point: in a world where adrenaline or tepid melodrama rules the theaters, why wouldn’t The Fall, a film that does all the things that a blockbuster would (besides appeasing studios), be just as popular? The escapism is there, the sets are actually there, the acting and story is there, the wonderful crew’s talent is certainly there, but why, even with David Fincher and Spike Jonze financing the theatrical distribution, did the film get no recognition? Even Roger Ebert gave it 4/4. What is the difference between a blockbuster and The Fall? What do they share?

I will offer more of my thoughts later, but I feel like I asked the main question already.


- "Tell us why...or we'll kill you with culture"



Bright light. Bright light. Uh oh.
One of the main reasons the film wasn't recognized was that it got kicked around the festival circuit for almost two years before it got distributors. Even the people who liked it knew it was something really different and had to be treated as such. However, you seem to be implying that if a studio had the guts to wholeheartedly support it that it could have become much more imprinted in the Public Consciousness and become huge. I suppose we'll never know. As it was, although it got respectable-to-good reviews, it was mostly lauded as a visual feast (which it is) and not really a totally-successful example of storytelling. Even so, I certainly liked it, but I can undestand how others might find it too strange or slow to enjoy it. However, I'm not going to "review" or rate it until I rewatch it, so I'll shut down for now.

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I just watched this movie about a week ago, The visuals in this movie are amazing, I thought it was a all around great movie, for some reason it reminded me of The Adventures of Baron Munchausen, I think because of the characters with each a specific skill or background.



I liked it a lot on first watch but the narrative doesn't hold up so well on a second viewing. Visual feasts and some nice touches but shallow story telling, though did like how he was manipulating the girl. Something a bit different
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I'll make a bold statement and say this is one of only ten movies that I rate a perfect 10/10. I went into it thinking it would be an artsy film school piece of junk (still can't remember why I gave it a chance in the first place) and at first it looked like I was going to be right. But it turns out the storyline is VERY straightforward and beautiful. If you watch it from the view of the little girl, Alexandria, and just enjoy the children's story then you'll "get it". If you're trying to understand what's so great about it then you're thinking too hard.

Don't ask why the fantasy story's characters and settings change from one scene to the next, you're seeing how the little girl imagines the story she's being told. She falls in love with the characters and it's incredibly heartbreaking every time when she says, "Why are you killing everybody?". That's when my tears start forming. You don't want them to die but you have just as much control over it as she does and you feel for her. It doesn't matter that the Black Bandit, Darwin, etc. aren't fleshed out characters because she sees them as people she knows in real life so she already cares for them. And we were all kids once so we automatically relate with her. Then she goes on to say "It's my story too." and her disparity just crushes you. But we get the fairy tale ending that we wanted for her and all is good.

I'm tired of seeing people only mention the beauty of the scenery and complications of shooting and release when this movie has a BEAUTIFUL storyline. It very much has the feel of Spike Jonze's Where the Wild Things Are (The Fall was listed as "presented by" Spike Jonze). If you like one you'll like the other. Best child actors in years too!



Loved those primary colours, that pristine blue always seem to recall the water and the sky and the smell of the ocean, even when they're in the desert or the palace city.

Loved that Alexandria is interpreting the story with the people and props around her. I liked how she supplied the images for the story, which could explain their simplicity. The blackguards are obviously inspired by the X-ray Technician. I also liked how a simple block of ice could become a torture device.

The repetition of certain images: The horse, the oranges and the crucifix? These suggest trauma, but not quite. (I almost thought the oranges was some sort of in-joke from the Godfather.

The stuntman fell ... and hurt his back from train trestle stunt, but his horse died. But he's suffering more from a broken heart. She's a daughter of a migrant worker, and she fell and broke her arm while picking oranges. Her father may have been murdered back home, but her stay in the hospital seems more like an adventure. She's not sick and confined to her ward like the other children.

There's something incomplete or for wont of a better word, "googly" about the story. The suicide theme is truncated. The film needed a third character, obviously the ward nurse as his new love interest. We see the starlet crying in the car, but is she shedding her tears for him? In the end, we can't be sure of his motives.



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I just watched this movie about a week ago, The visuals in this movie are amazing, I thought it was a all around great movie, for some reason it reminded me of The Adventures of Baron Munchausen, I think because of the characters with each a specific skill or background.

Good call, I saw The Fall a couple years ago in theaters and I didn't care for it much. I remember feeling completely underwhelmed by it and grew bored, but the Gilliam film is similar except it's amazing. I'd have to watch the Fall again to tell you why I didnt like it.
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Chappie doesn't like the real world
I just watched this and I'll come back and discuss more when it's sat with me for awhile but I just want to get my initial reactions out. I wasn't quite expecting to be as emotionally invested in the movie as I was nor was I expecting to enjoy it half as much as I did. 90% of that is most likely due to that little girl. Wow. Even if you hate the movie how can you not fall in love with her?

It was a little heavy handed at times for me and I felt my emotions being manipulated a tad rather than coming from someplace real inside me. For that reason I'll probably never watch it again because I do suspect that it wouldn't hold up to multiple viewing very well and I'd rather remember this movie fondly. Because I did like it very much.



Bright light. Bright light. Uh oh.
I rewatched The Fall and I'll address some of the comments and concerns of others, but what I really want to do is discuss specifically some of the mind-blowing visuals in the film and tell you where they occur in the movie so you can check them out if you wish.

I've seen the film three times now, and if anything, I think it gets better with added viewings so I wouldn't be afraid of rewatching it, Godoggo. The story always made sense to me but this time I have to admit that it was more touching, never seemed to grow slow and turned into a lovely paean to silent filmmakers and stuntmen, especially a few of the greats who did their own stunts and who we see at the film's glorious finale. It goes without saying that it's also a Valentine to childhood imagination. I didn't realize that The Fall is actually a remake of a Bulgarian film called Yo Ho Ho which has a very similar plot but all I've seen of it is a trailer with no subtitles.


Right from the opening black-and-white credits depicting the aftermath of one of the many Falls in the film, set to Beethoven's 7th Symphony, An Arpeggio, the viewer is grabbed by the uniqueness of this movie. We don't really understand that it's a silent film stunt gone wrong, and we don't know that some of the characters which we see later in the fantasy stories are introduced in this impressionistic opening, but we do know that what we're seeing has been planned out with extreme care and a high level of artistry. Yes, when the stunt man (Lee Pace) tells his story to the girl (Catinca Untaru), he basically provides the plot and some of the faces of the characters, but she visualizes everything herself and adds the identities of others, and you have to remember that she has never seen a movie.


While this adds some possible anachronisms and anomolies, it also adds to the visual imagination apparent on screen at all times but especially during the fantasy stories. Some of the shots and transitions seem to be just too incredible to be reproduced so perfectly, so I will give that credit to director Tarsem and his skilled artists and technicians over and above the darling girl Alexandria (the Great). An early example of this is when one of the Bandit Heroes, Charles Darwin (yes, that guy), is given a beautiful butterfly by the Villain of the piece, Odious. Darwin is aghast to find the winged creature pinned inside a box on a blue-colored field of some material. We see a closeup of the butterfly and the camera circles around it as it turns into Butterfly Reef in the middle of the ocean, the place where the Bandits are exiled by Odious. In fact the pin seems to turn into the five bandits gradually. This scene begins at 22:17 on the DVD. As it continues, we soon learn that Darwin is being aided and actually taught by a monkey who is certainly smarter than him and almost seems to possess psychic powers. So whatever else you think of the flick, I hope you appreciate its humor.


There is a brief image of a grey, cloudy sky which appears at 44:28 on the DVD. All three of us watching the movie took turns telling what images we saw in that sky (consisting of only clouds) and going up to the screen to point them out. We could all see them too, once referenced, and no, we weren't stoned. How intentional those "images" were I don't know, but based on everything else on display in this film, I'd say there was a definite reason that specific two seconds was put on screen. We saw, among other things, a werewolf's head, a lion, a donkey, a horse, the head of a bird (maybe an eagle), and in some form of magic, one particular area in the center seemed to resemble three things basically using up the same space. We decided those three were a horned demon's head, Oogie Boogie from The Nightmare Before Christmas and Aladdin's Lamp! I hope some people will pause that shot and look at it very closely because it's a lot of fun and I'll bet that you may see some things and interpret them differently. Sometimes a full-on shot would morph into a profile or a head would look more like a body, but there is something very hypnotic in that shot and I don't believe it's been doctored at all. Then again, I'm a cloud fetishist and have taken hundreds of pictures of them based on what I see there.


There are many types of repeated visual motifs in the film (some mentioned earlier) but I really see Tarsem seeing faces in buildings and landscapes (and vice versa) a lot. By far the most sophisticated of these shots occurs during the "wedding scene" at 1:12:19. We see the head of the "stony-faced priest" who betrayed the heroes. He's wearing a huge, elegant, raised, off-whitish collar with a lower black garment which appears similar to a priest's collar with a piece extending downward. His short black hair is shaved on top. The shot dissolves into a high desert landscape which has all the same shapes and colors in it. The top of his head turns into a snowcrested mountain in the background, the sides of his fancy collar turn into supporting mountains and shapes in the desert sand, just as his eyes, nose and sadistic smile do. Then the black collar at the bottom becomes a raised tee-shaped sacrificial platform. It's really incredible to see. I had to freeze it and then keep hitting the pause button so I could see how gradually and perfectly the transition was. Tarsem is obviously a visionary artist of the highest magnitude. Actually after the scene became desert and mountains, I was sure that the outlines in the sand resembled a lion's mane. Then a little weird thing came out of the eye and turned into... I'll leave it a secret. But I don't think there's much if any computer doctoring in there at all. It just looked like real photography and an old-school dissolve, but you tell me.


Whether you care about these kinds of things or not I'm not sure. You may just want to watch the movie straight through and seek them out after it's over, but I can't help but think that everyone would at least want to check some of these out and draw their own conclusions about how they support and embellish the story because I don't consider them to be just show-offy flourishes.

I could go on here, but it's late and I'll wait for some (hopeful) responses before I get into more specifics about what things may or may not mean, but my bottom line is that I believe it's an excellent story told by someone who was totally devoted to what they were doing. I can see it fitting into the "blockbuster" category because the pure joy of filmmaking, especially of a fantastic nature, is apparent in every shot and scene. My rating for The Fall is
which is a full recommendation; at least if you like movie-movies.



Chappie doesn't like the real world
I've seen the film three times now, and if anything, I think it gets better with added viewings so I wouldn't be afraid of rewatching it, Godoggo.
I'll trust your judgement, because I would like to see it again. On my first viewing I was really caught up in the story (a good thing!), so I'd like to go back and pay more attention to the visuals.

I watched the movie with my boyfriend who fancies himself an artist. When we watch movies together his comments are always about how the movie "looks". I'm much less visual and while I certainly can appreciate those things it doesn't matter anywhere near as much to me and story, dialogue and characters. I'm always wary of watching movies with him because he usually ends up disliking a movie more often than liking it. So color me surprised when he said this was one of the best movies he had seen all year.

One of my favorite images:




Finished!

Mark's pretty much nailed most of my thoughts: it is really lovely to look at. I kept thinking "how have I never heard of this?" and "did this have a much, much bigger budget than I'd realized?" It makes perfect sense, now that I hear about how long it took to make and the way its budget was doled out. Very odd film, and it really snuck up on me in that regard.

I just can't get over the story, though. I like the basic idea plenty, and I like the performances. And I was in genuine suspense near the end. But it all feels sort of incoherent, too, and I'm not sure there's a whole lot there beyond the obvious. Usually, when I find a film this baffling on first viewing, I can sense that there's a lot more there than I necessarily picked up on (narrative-wise), but with The Fall I'm not so sure.

I'm glad I watched it, of course. It was beautiful at times and I really like Lee Pace for the most part. And the girl's accent is going to stick in my head for a very long time. But I just wish it'd had a bit more structure and payoff to it. I'm not the kind of viewer who's happy with just beautiful images.




Bright light. Bright light. Uh oh.
One thing I've noticed about The Fall is that it plays much better when watched in one sitting. Of course, I always say to have the sound pumped up, but this was a case where I thought the "plot" was weak when I first saw it, but it seemed much stronger, more complex and meaningful, and overall a more satisfying experience on repeat viewings. I also realize that there are lots of other movies to watch out there in the world.



Checking back in on this thread reminds me how frustrated I get when people read into things too much. This movie is incredibly straightforward and anything odd or confusing is because you're seeing it from Alexandria's perspective. What you're seeing is her interpretation of the words Roy is saying. This isn't a movie about the visuals (though they are colorful and unique). It's a movie purely about the story.



If that's true then it probably makes me like it less. There's nothing wrong with a warped story seen from Alexandria's perspective, I just didn't find it terribly interesting to watch. I'm not sure what seeing it from her perspective really did for it, save for the visuals (which I kinda do think it's mostly about).