Art & Politics

How much do your personal politics and philosophy influence your ability to appreciate art? Do you only like movies that reflect your beliefs, or is it possible to separate the art from the politics? Should you even try? Are you able to appreciate art with hateful subject matter? If not, why? For example, The Birth of a Nation and stylish Italian horror films. Is it fair to enjoy one despite its inherent misogyny while decrying the other for its blatant, if equally-ridiculous, racism? At what point in your viewing does your opinion on a piece of art or film change? How grievous a sin does the film have to commit? Is it just a star's or director's politics, some violence or subject matter, a star's face or an overall unpleasantness. I realize that what's unpleasant for one is seventh heaven for someone else. But that's part of what I'm getting at. What has art taught you about yourself that you never fully realized before, and are you happy about that? Have movies reinforced your fears and prejudices or have they freed you from them?

Let's try to steer clear of any actual political diatribes, and stay focused on what you use to influence your personal opinions. I realize that you can have a visceral reaction (a chill down your spine, feeling high or a turned-on feeling) to art which has no connection to your philosophy, but when you try to examine deeper what made you feel that way, in a movie for example, can you do it without couching it in philosophical terms? If you think you only respond to films in non-political ways, what is it about your essence (or "youness") which formed that way, and does it make you more likely to constantly change your opinion? Try to be a little introspective in your thoughts. I know it's a broad topic, and don't let the word "politics" in regards to your philosophy confuse you. It's not about voting or belonging to a political party, but your general perspective on everyday life and how you react to it.

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It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. - John Wooden
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I think there's only one area where my own personal beliefs have stopped me watching a movie... whether I've got the wrong idea of the thread or not, but I refuse to watch Polanski after everything he's done over the years.


I've seen Rosemary's Baby, and it is a great film, but that was before I knew about Polanski's past.


Other than that, nothing really stops me watching a film or looking at a piece of art and it certainly doesn't affect the way I view said film or artwork.
As I said, Rosemary's Baby is one of the best crafted movies I've ever seen, but I won't ever watch it again after what I learned.

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As long as it's not politically correct propaganda I'll watch it

Do you mind if I ask for some examples of what you consider to be politically correct propaganda? I'd like to know what qualifies.

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Iro's Top 100 Movies v3.0

I have seen some Nazi Propaganda films.... like "Der Ewige Jude". It was an interesting watch.

I'm too drunk right now to give a satisfying answer, but I think Mark is asking some truly interesting questions (much more open than some might be thinking when they read the title) and I'll gladly answer them in a very extensive way tomorrow.

Great thread.

Reminder for myself.

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Cobpyth's Movie Log ~ 2019

You're supposed to post when you're drunk.

You know, I try not to let personal politics affect what I watch. For instance, yes, I find Mel Gibson's racist rants repugnant, and I find his religious beliefs kind of extreme, but I wouldn't let that ruin my enjoyment of Lethal Weapon or Braveheart. Same with Tom Cruise. I actually find him to be a fantastic actor, no matter what he says that I disagree with. On the other hand, I'd probably not watch a blatantly political film that I disagreed with. I didn't see David Zucker's An American Carol because I knew it would infuriate me. I'm open to other people's opinions, but I'm not going to pay to watch them if they're going to piss me off.

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"You, me, everyone...we are all made of star stuff." - Neil Degrasse Tyson

https://shawnsmovienight.blogspot.com/

I was also very tired as it was about 6:00 AM.

Going to respond to this thread when my hangover is over.

I think my politics/values greatly influence the way I view art, and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. The really great story tellers are not preaching at you anyways. They are presenting themes and characters in a human way. That is why as a conservative christian I have a lot of the same favorite movies of people who are on the opposite side of my beliefs. Good films strip people of their ideologies. It shows us as we are bare, warts and all. That is how it can evoke empathy from us with people that we probably would not empathize in real life. Great art transcends politics.

It should be noted that I do not respond to films that are preachy even if they agree with my values. These movies come off as cold and trite. That is why I feel confident in how I feel about the subject.

Sorry if my thoughts feel disjointed. Responding from work where my thoughts are a little split. Hopefully this great topic will get some conversation going.

I learnt to distinguish a person from his/her art. A couple of years ago I would refuse listening to Burzum hence Varg Vikernes' beliefs and deeds, but now I just enjoy his music as an art form not really paying attention to his persona in real life. Yes, you can be a great artist and a jerk in real life at the same time, but it shouldn't stop people from appreciating your work, if it's good.

I no longer care about the lyrics section of songs that would try to 'promote' satanism or other 'bad' things, neither. There's a couple of reasons. The first one is with bands like Peste Noire - the lyrics are in French and I don't speak French, so I just enjoy the awesome music without really paying attention to the controversial message. Bands with lyrics like '666 Satan I love' (made up lyrics, but you know what I mean) I find too infantile to really take them seriously, but I'd listen to them, if they're good instrumentally. With bands like Deathspell Omega, of which the members are Satanists, I have no problem neither. Their lyrics may or may not promote Satanism, but given its complex, philosophical structure I find them pretty good.

I never had any problem with films in that matter. I would watch everything and judge these films by their artistic values, or my enjoyment. If I understand things in these films are wrong, or if I don't agree with them, I can still like the film for what it is.

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Look, I'm not judging you - after all, I'm posting here myself, but maybe, just maybe, if you spent less time here and more time watching films, maybe, and I stress, maybe your taste would be of some value. Just a thought, ya know.

I cannot watch movies with mostly honest politicians.

Though I have strong feelings about art and culture, if the movie is great, the personal life of a director, writer, actor won't change that.

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https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition

Correct me if I'm wrong Mark. I don't think he is interested in knowing if you will watch something if you don't agree with the politics of the artist. I think he is more interested in how you interact with the politics of the art itself.

I was hoping people would go within themselves and share how they react to and discuss art. How personal politics that are expressed in art or perceived by the viewer as part of the art affect the viewer's reaction. As much as people like to think their reaction is purely visceral, there is a strong intellectual reaction which also includes people's prejudices and fears. Do you just casually go along with yourself and reinforce your politics, likes, fears and prejudices, or do you find art having a big influence on you evolving as a human being. It's all in the first post, but you don't have to respond to it all at once.

Yeah, I got that and I am not so sure I did a good job explaining myself in the first post. I think my values and politics are reinforced in my engagement with art. I don't think film has changed those things in any way with me and probably never will.

I have always said that film reflects our culture, doesn't inform it. I definitely think this applies to me personally as well.

Will you answer Mark? Or do you want to wait till you get some more responses?

I was hoping to remain lo-pro until some more responses and discussion. Cobpyth promised a thorough response. I never said one could answer without some reflection and perhaps using some specifics. For example, sean, how were your personal values and politics formed or how have they evolved? Did a reaction to any kind of art affect them?

Art has some influence on my life, but I'd say it's more of a long-term process. I would watch a movie and it'd impress me, but it wouldn't make me change my point of view on life. Not a single movie that is, but a streak of films has a chance to change it a little bit. Honestly, I couldn't tell how art changed my life without really thinking about it, but it must be more of a subconscious change, that shows up with time. Since it's a long process, I can't really tell if it's only the films that change me, or if there are other factors included (Internet, coming-of-age, getting to know life better...).

Of course, art can change my view on... art and Werckmeister Harmonies is the most profound example, but it's not like I'd watch a single movie and it would shape my view on, say, abortion, or any other topic.

As of new films, I always try to be as unbiased as possible. Sometimes it doesn't work, but that's because I'm too excited about the movie and ready to love it even before seeing it. If I end up not liking it, the recoil is even worse. I wouldn't refuse to watch a film, because it's Nazi propaganda, as well as, I wouldn't refuse to watch it, because it has animal abuse in it. As long as it's good, it is good, no matter the content.

Film can be a powerful propaganda tool and Soviets & Nazis understood it perfectly, but even though I watched a lot of these propaganda films, they didn't influence me in THAT way. I'm not interested in politics, so I completely cut off of any evaluating of the systems they represented. I know the history, I understand the means and I can see the tricks and then I ignore them, because under them there is something that is free of any political and opinion-making content. It is the sheer brilliance of cinema.

I think mostly in my upbringing. This may not be a popular answer as people may see it as a bit closed minded, and maybe in some ways it can be. I think the foundation of most people's morals come from the environment they grew up in. Then we evolve based on hypocrisies we see in that foundation. I like to think that the moral foundation my parents laid has served me well and that in some ways I have built on that foundation in a progressive manner that will serve my children well. Just as my father built on the foundation laid by his father.

Now where does that evolution come from? That is a hard question to answer. I will say that I don't think it comes from art. The reason being that by the time I started engaging with art in a meaningful way my personal foundation had become pretty impenetrable.

Hmm, that's a start. I am going to give a little more thought on how my politics have evolved past my upbringing and come back to it.

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Letterboxd

This was actually for Minio.

That's all true, and obviously you don't have a herd mentality, but you still have developed basic values (which I called "personal politics" as part of a broader topic) which came from somewhere and have undoubtedly evolved throughout your life and were probably influenced by art of some kind. Maybe you can come back after either more reflection or more life, or share how you became you.

sean, good start, but even if art didn't shape your values, your reaction to it probably has some influence for you and even your very young sons.