Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice

Serious question: why is any knowledge of the comics (or pop culture) relevant? The argument is obviously not about comic book canon. Nobody's saying you can't write a story where Batman wins--obviously, they have (I loved the film adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns, for what it's worth).

The argument is that he shouldn't in a genuine contest that is not constrained by the need to tell a compelling story. "Superman uses his super speed and strength to hurl a building at Batman and kills him" is not an interesting story, so nobody's going to write it. But that doesn't mean this isn't what would happen if both of them were a) real and b) actually trying to kill each other.

Can't this thread just return to the topic of the actual film itself rather than an argument of who thinks which superhero wins in a fight? Maybe in the film they both win and they come to terms and join the Justice League. OMG, winner!!!

But I never said Batman will win, I only think idea of Superman killing Bat's in seconds is stupid and ignorant...I used comics only to show how Batman can fight him. So my point of this is...He won't kill him in seconds, they will fight and we will see...I explained that every time someone bring it up, its really lame,it would be like saying Batman can just go to his satellite and kill Joker but we all know he wont do it.

__________________
“By definition, you have to live until you die. Better to make that life as complete and enjoyable an experience as possible, in case death is shite, which I suspect it will be.”

I think I'm having a hard time believing that Batman would even be willing to fight Superman at all knowing how powerful he is and just hinge on the hope that "he won't use" his full powers.

Batman would have a plan in place in case of this "flying into his enemy at the speed of light" scenario. That's what Batman does and that's why he's the one that can beat Superman.

Do you really need to have comic book knowledge to know Lex Luther is Superman's greatest foe? Or do you just have to walk around with your eyes open?

Also, no one bats an eye at the complete indestructibility of the Iron Man suit but one look at Batman in his Superman fighting armor and everyone's all "Superman will just fly at him at light speed." Come on, superhero equality, people!

Again, Batman's biggest strength is his big brain. He doesn't have to wonder if Superman will use his full power (he knows he won't, but that doesn't matter), he'll have a plan in place before it even comes to that. That's why Batman won in the comics and why they're even making a movie called Batman Versus Superman.

__________________

In Comic Book world anything can happen - I'm just pointing out that even from a sci-fi standpoint it's pretty absurd (whether it originated in a comic strip or not) seeing as even a simple punch from Superman can crush through steel (let alone his laser vision, light speed, etc).

As far as I'm aware of Lex Luthor is a "white collar" villain and never challenged Supes to an actual fight - he gets minions to do his dirty work for him. Superman isn't the Punisher so he doesn't just go around killing anyone who's a "bad guy" - the reason Lex is his biggest foe isn't because he could actually beat up Superman in a fight.

So... what are you even arguing? I'm not saying the movie will suck in spite of the implausible theme - what I have a feeling though is that Superman's strength will end up being inconsistent with what he's shown to be capable of in the other films (ex. in the fight his punches will just hurt Batman, despite him having been able to punch through solid concrete up until that point).

He could ask you what are you arguing? All this time you talk about thing that will not happen, Superman can do this, he can do that, but he will not do it, so why argue about something that won't happen? As I said, Batman can go do his satellite and kill Joker, will he do it? No he wont...

About that Lex never fought Superman...They fought many times,I don't know what you want to say there.And Lex won few times, just a regular man...

Main point of this argument is: You are talking about thing that will not happen...Also, when movies stopped being place where everything can happen? Ofc Superman won't use all of his powers, he used them only few times in history...Again I'm not saying Batman will in fact win....I'm saying they will fight as equals at least.

And how are comics unimportant when they show how Batman can beat Superman?

There was some debate a while ago online about the leaked photos showing the re-shooting of the cinema murder sequence and Batman's origins.

Personally I hope this is just going to be used in a flashback because yet another origin variant will mean yet another superhero film dragging along before getting to the stuff people ACTUALLY CAME TO SEE! Its like when they pack a bag of sweets/candy with flavours no-one likes, so even though we are paying money to buy, we have to endure things we hate because the companies want it that way.

I wish we could have a return to good old fashioned 90 minute movies, not bloated 2 hour+ marathons.

__________________
@MondoEsoterica - an insight into my world of seriously obscure cinema.

Personally I like movies that are over 90 minutes. There's more scope to the story telling.
Imagine if LOTR were 90 minutes each?


As for the cinema murder scene, it's a pivotal thing in Bruce's life. But I'd imagine they'll use it like in Batman (1989) where it's shown as a memory rather than having a full on origins story before Batman and Superman face off with each other.

__________________

Of course, if a film warrants it with storyline it can be as long as it wants. I have watched some three hour plus epics and fully enjoyed them.

I just find that a lot of 'popcorn films' in the last five years have started trending towards the two hour plus mark and getting there via endless extended fight scenes and action scenes putting the lead characters in peril that you know they cannot really die in.

Updated - looks to just be for Ben Affleck so might be unrelated to this film.

Although even if it is for Batman, could just be some second unit shots for a training montage (although no mainstream version of the Batman story that I know of would have him beginning his training at the age of twelve).

Good call. I re-checked and it's actually for a new movie titled The Accountant which stars Ben Affleck as a mild-mannered accountant who moonlights as a lethal assassin. Previous post deleted.

After reading The Dark Knight Returns and The Dark Knight Returns II, I now understand why Batman always beats Superman.

Here's hoping the teaser trailer will be on the net tomorrow (Tuesday). If not, it will be all over the net the next day.

Badass Digest has spilled the beans about what all is going down in BvS: Dawn of Justice, and here are some tidbits about the initial setup:



Here are some alleged details from the actual story of the film – including how Superman is perceived after killing Zod in Man of Steel:



Here are a few things we heard before (or recently since the film has finished up production):

Ime starting to have my doubts about this movie now. At first I was very excited and thought this could really work. Now I feel like they are trying to cram way to much in.

__________________

For a film that has a release date over a year away, I just don't see how a person can have negative thoughts about a movie. Sure, some info reported about it could sound confusing or trite at first because of rumors and such. But when the film gets released and you see it for yourself, that's usually when judging should commence.

Full Theatrical trailers are a somewhat good source for seeing how a film might look, but I wouldn't base it on quick flashy teasers that don't really even show anything or barely even have much dialogue.

So your saying you can't have negative thoughts about casting choices, characters, screen shots, or general news about a movie?. This movie is cramming way to many characters inside a 2 hour movie. Batman and Superman are enough to carry this movie alone, so why the need for Wonderwoman and the rest is beyond me.

That's not what I said. I didn't say you can't have your own thoughts. All a person reads before a film comes out is just news. Like I said, sure at first it all may sound confusing but when it comes out then that's when a person's opinions would fully come into play.

As for why we need so many people??? This film is the basis and the prequel for the Justice League film...as well as all the characters' solo films. The main characters are Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman respectively, as for the others they will be in the film but the won't crowd the movie I am sure. Just have extreme minor bits like cameos of sorts with few speaking parts. Maybe a scene or two. (Just guessing, because that would make sense).

I am sure also the movie won't be as bad as people think it might be. I am thinking positive and think it will be a good film. An entertaining piece of film to say the least. Like I said before...it doesn't even come out for another year plus, so anything could happen.

I like Superman, but I never understood, unless I missed the explanation as to why he gains so much power entering earths atmosphere. I can believe it a la John Carter with lighter gravity, but flight and laser beams out of the eyes? How is that explained especially in these grounded film approaches?

__________________
"A flying saucer? You mean the kind from up there?"
"Yeah, either that or its counterpart"

Their assumption was that Jerry was already dead when I arrived, and I just nodded my head. What else could I tell them? "He had to do it, Officer, or else he would’ve turned into a worm-monster and been very unhappy."