controversy v quality

Throughout film history there have been many films that have been protested against and even banned,
The problem with this Is that most of these films arent actually any good.
Im a long standing protester against censorship but often find that most of the banned films have no artistic value and are without reason to campaign again the banning.

Are their any controversial films that you love?

(appologies for spelling, Im dyslexic. I will download ispell when im not at work)

Yes.

Two that come to mind are A Clockwork Orange and, to a lesser extent, The Warriors.

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I agree on clockwork 100%

Wasnt that pulled by Kuberick because of death threats?
(not that it matters how the film was banned,its just what I have heard.)

Also the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a personal favorite of mine.

Yes, it was.

Thanks. read it on I.M.D.B and they're not exactly reliable

I do think banning films can give them a kind of cult appeal which they probably do not deserve.

I agree, Thursday Next. But there are still those true fans out there.

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One of the biggest problems is that none of these films are ever as shocking as they claim to be.
Maybe im just a product of a de-sensitised society but I found the racism in gone with the wind far more shocking than I spit on your grave.

My biggest issue is that the moral brigade who pickett these movies never seem to have seen the film.Also the fact that a sex sceen is more likely to warrant a ban than an extremely violent scene really says something about our society.

Well, if a film is banned, people start to wonder what the hype is about, and why it's been banned, and what could possibly be so shocking - that's when you see a person spending hours on the Internet searching for IMDB pages, Wikipedia pages + Limewire downloads on the film.

Eventually, it's either unbanned or they download the pirated version of it, and in some cases it's so shocking they realise why it's been banned in the first place.

Maybe it's the whole thing where, as kids fight, you never want something until someone else has it and you can't have it:
In this case, the censors have your toy, and you can't have it. So you're throwing a tantrum and trying everything to get it back, ie death threats, bargaining, etc etc.

Banning a film gives it notoriety and makes people want to see it more, so in my opinion, films shouldn't be banned, or at the very least, have explicit warnings on content. If it's not forbidden, it won't be so sought after.

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Cult appeal certainly, especially if you were unfortunate enough to live in Ireland during the VHS age. I had pirate copies of Reservoir Dogs, Bad Lieutenant, The Exorcist, Driller Killer etc at one time, and this was in the days when you could only copy movies by being rich enough to have 2 VCRs and a 'special cable' or were able to visit the grubby shop in the markets and risk being seen by family members who were convinced that you were after something more 'adult'.

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The racism in Gone With the Wind was extremely mild, more of the patronizing "We take care of our black folks" school. There are very few scenes in that film that even come close to the reality of slavery: One is when Scarlett slaps the Butterfly McQueen character for lying about being an experienced midwife--you can read books and letters from women of slave-owning families who talk of regularly slapping or pulling the hair of female slaves to hurry them along or as punishment for spilling or breaking something. Of course, the female slaves also got back at mistress by slapping or pinching or sticking pins in the young white children placed in their care--especially those to young to talk.

Another true scene was when Scarlett meets Big Sam and the other Tara field hands in Atlanta and Sam tells about how angry Scarlett's father got when Army officials took the slaves to dig defenses around the city. I always thought it was funny to read about slave-owners encouraging their sons to go fight and perhaps die in defense of slavery, but resisted all efforts to use slaves in the war effort. One of the arguments was that the Army had no investment in slaves and therefore would work them too hard, not feed them well, or treat them when they were sick. Problem is, a lot of big plantations treated slaves the same way. They were willing to work slaves to death if the resulting productivity returned enough profit even after buying a replacement.

There are lots of signs of racism in many earlier pictures. Humorist Will Rogers who always claimed, "I never met a man I didn't like," made several pictures in which he addresses black men as "boy," and talks casually of their laziness and propencity to steal--that was the general attitude of whites toward blacks in those days.

Another interesting example of that casual racism is in some of the music played in those early films in the first half of the 20th century. Even a classic like Casablanca when Rick's friend and long-time employee sings "Shine" which of course was also a sling name for blacks back then: "Just because my hair is curly / And just because my teeth are pearly . . . "

But if you want to see some hardcore racism, take a look at Birth of a Nation that not only justifies but celebrates the Ku Klux Klan.

It was the subtleness of the racism that freaked me out so much, It was so mundane, like this is how the world is its normal its acceptable.

Its kind of like the way those old westerns without the violence sent a weird shiver up your spine. (maybe its just me)

I'd love somebody to tell me a film which has as strong and wise a black character as Hattie McDaniel's Mammy anywhere near the time of the release of Gone With the Wind; at least a character who all people would see wherever they lived, including the Deep South. The next strongest one would probably be Uncle Remus (James Baskett) in Song of the South seven years later, and that film has already turned into an unfair pariah, mainly due to people's complete ignorance of what it contains or advocates.

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The earliest I know of is No Way out from 1950, the film has very racist themes but makes a mockery of white racists. Sydney poitier plays Dr Luther Brooks, he is a very respectable and moral man.

There must be something earlier than that though.

Take a look at Mae West's onscreen exchanges with black women portraying her maids in some of 1930s films--there are often frank and--for that time--risque conversations on an equal basis among the women about men, black and white.

I've seen Song of the South and while I like the stories and songs, Uncle Remus is very much the white man's idea of a black man. You want to see some strong positive black roles, check out Cabin in the Sky, or A Member of the Wedding, or some years later A Rasin in the Sun.

I was going to mention Song of the South, but, Ruf beat me to it. As usual, Rufnek's extensive knowledge of classic films is right on point. Song of the South is ridiculous, and dammit if they didn't show that thing to my classes at least 4 times in the 70s when i was in grade school. Some things have changed for the better anyway...

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How is Song of the South ridiculous? How is Uncle Remus not one of the wisest, warmest and friendliest characters of the 1940s? Are you trying to tell me that you or anybody else wouldn't want to have a grandfather of the stature of Uncle Remus? He is by far the strongest character in the film and in no way subservient to anyone. Johnny's parents are going through an immature marital problem, so it's a good thing that somebody mature and human is there for him. That person is Uncle Remus. I may just go ahead and watch my copy again today.

Has anyone seen any of Leni Riefenstahl's films? When I found out how much she influenced the course of cinema I was astounded.

I haven't seen any of her films, but now that you've opened my eyes I'm certainly going to check it out.

Her most famous ones would be Olympia and Triumph of the Will.


Empire magazine did a great piece on her, showing how her techniques have been borrowed by everyone from every documentarian since 1950 to Ridley Scott to Will Ferrell to Peter Jackson. Too bad so few people got to see her movies while she was alive.

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