Christopher Nolan vs David Fincher

Obviously, I LOVE The Prestige. It's a small film that feels big, it features Nolan's recurring themes of damaged men driven to do the impossible because of their own selfish obsessions and his 'useful lies'. I think it's wonderful what he has to say about artistry, the film industry and authorship. It's probably his 3rd best film, JUST behind The Dark Knight, and I would argue that it's the closest he comes to recapturing the magic in Memento. But it's not Memento.

Your underrating Memento too much and I suspect it's because you think it's innovative (in America) narrative structure is just a gimmick and nothing more. It's not, and I have discussed this in many threads. But you need to realise Memento's importance as an American independent film. It's probably THE most important indie film since Sex, Lies & Videotape and has been absolutely crucial to maintaining Nolan's identity as an independent filmmaker, regardless of if he is working in the studio or not.

Look at the reviews for most of Nolan's film post Memento, dude. A majority of them often reference that one film, which, to me, suggests the profound impact it has had on his career.

And listen, lets stop these slightly immature remarks about how Fincher's still doing his 'bread and butter' and Nolan has turned into Hollywood hack. I don't like these suggestions and it only serves to highlight naivety. Like HK said, Fincher makes blockbusters himself, it's just not summer releases and appear more adult orientated.

Thing is though, Nolan did what Fincher initially couldn't and that's work within the studio system on his own terms. Nolan has himself gone on to say and I quote 'I feel like an indie filmmaker working inside the studio'. 'They already knew that studio filmmaking had screwed up this franchise (in reference to his Dark Knight Trilogy. They couldn't do it their way so I got to do it my way'. Featured word - MY.

Alien 3, despite the fact that I really like the assembly cut, is only about 60% Fincher. He tried to do it his way, but couldn't get it done. Nolan's not restricted by the code, ethics and limitations of the studio system, this alone makes him superior filmmaker in that he is able to get his vision across no matter what. Nolan still brings his indie sensibilities to The Dark Knight Trilogy, that's why I refuse to simply view them just as summer blockbusters.

^For an Indie film and only his second ever film Memento is amazing. He got a great performance out of Guy Pearce, the story was intriguing as well. It was the film that launched him to do better things like The Prestige, Inception, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and Insomnia. Now if you put it against just Indie films then it is right up there with the likes of Juno, Usual Suspects, Mean Streets, and Thank You for Smoking. I do think it felt a little gimmicky. But overall it worked. I liked the non linear plot. I just think Nolan has done it better since.

Look at Nolan's reviews for his films films post TDK and Inception .

Me saying that Nolan has gone blockbuster while Fincher stuck to his bread and butter really isn't a dig. It is pretty much fact. And there isn't anything wrong with it. Steven Spielberg did the same thing and some consider him the best of all time.

Nolan has always given his films an Indie feel though. Like Batman Begins felt like the indie version of Batman. It is a new Hollywood. People now are willing to give that kind of talent more control as the should.

Perhaps it being only 60% Fincher is why I didn't like it. Studios are notorious for ruining a film. Look at Spiderman 3 for an example. Just because Nolan isn't restricted like Fincher has been doesn't make him superior. It means that he got a sweeter deal with the studio.

The fact is TDK triology are summer blockbusters. All three of them. Quality yes. But they are summer blockbusters. There isn't anything really wrong with that. Inception was a summer blockbuster too.

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Hmm, ok. I did feel like you were implying that Fincher was somehow superior to Nolan because of his summer blockbuster releases, which, again, is terminology that has negative connotations. It implies that Nolan's films are shallow and such. I know you didn't mean to suggest that, but other people might get the wrong idea. And again, Nolan's more or less stuck to his bread and butter which is his indie sensibilities too. They are just displayed on a much bigger canvas than that of Following, Memento, Insomnia and The Prestige.

You're somewhat right about certain 'indie' films being a new Hollywood. Ever since the 90's, big studio companies have wanted a slice of the cake when it comes to the success of independent cinema. The idea was little investment could result in big returns, so that's why they have sub companies like Fox with Fox Searchlight, which was created to fund and/or distribute films that aesthetically and financially encompassed the indie tag. It's all a bit dodgy for me because some of the films you mentioned like Juno are often labelled 'off beat and indie' yet they were by Fox Searchlight which is just another product of the studio system. So I can't even think of these films as 'indie' as I am sure that there are still restrictions.


I think it somewhat does, mate. Fincher makes the choice to direct Alien 3 but can't convey and impose his vision without studio interference, then that says as much about him as it does about the studio, imo. Remember that line in Watchmen where Rorschach says 'never compromise'? That's what Fincher did. That's one thing you DON'T do as an artist. The very fact that Fincher hasn't even come out with his own personal director's cut since that debut shows me that he basically gave up his vision out of frustration. This is a weakness imo.

I would describe them and especially Inception as art films masquerading as blockbusters personally. Nothing wrong with blockbusters themselves except for other people's implications

Good thread. Memento's my favorite of all their movies, but Fincher's far and away the more talented filmmaker. The Game is basically a master class in formal control, exhilaration and flow. Fincher's also got somewhat of a sense of humor - something Nolan will never understand because for him everything is Serious Business and realistic human emotions and motivations are only to be called upon in an absolute pinch. Whichever one you prefer, though, it's lamentable that neither of these guys will ever make a movie for less than $100 million dollars again. They're both less interesting these days

Fincher

Se7en
The Game
Fight Club
Panic Room
Zodiac +
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
The Social Network
The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo -

Nolan

Memento +
Batman Begins +
The Prestige +
The Dark Knight
Inception
The Dark Knight Rises

Interesting thing I was talking to a coworker today and asked if he had seen Memento. He said he had heard of it. But never saw it. I told him it was an indie film directed by Nolan. He was rather shocked. Nolan is now known for TDK and Inception then Memento and The Prestige.



Indie directors are coming in that have the talent to be big time. Nolan kind of started that movement. So now studios are more willing to give these guys more rope and allow them to make their art they way they want to make it. As for Juno remember it got picked by by Fox Searchlight at a film festival.




That is more of the studio being the studio. Studios are famous for interfering all the time. I read that Martin Scorsese protected a now major director from the studio so he could make it the way he wanted to.



I somewhat agree with that. They are different blockbusters than the norm. Still blockbusters nonetheless.

lolz

The best summer and the least shallow blockbuster ever is Jaws. Did I just type that, again??

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I think Nolan is better at making "grown-up" blockbusters, Inception is a prime example.

Is that all you have to contribute? There is no place for your nonsense in this thread so I suggest you piss off back to whatever Polanski related topic you've created.

I've never created a Polanski related topic. Score 1 for me.

Also, if you have any shred of evidence as to how Nolan's films are art films, I would love to hear some of that nonsense; I need a good laugh.

Other than Duel and The Sugarland Express, Spielberg has always done big blockbusters. He wasn't really that well known until he made Jaws, which pretty much started summer blockbusters. He never really went from indie to blockbuster, because no one really knew who he was before he made Jaws. I really don't think I'd compare Spielberg to Nolan. Nolan was pretty well known after Memento came out.

Right, so you are not the OP for the Carnage thread that's currently in the General Movie Discussion section?

Wtf? Lol, still butt hurt about me ripping The Fountain a new one? Just who the hell do you think you are to think you can demand an explanation from me?

The other people who have actually contributed to the discussion..i'll respond and explain anything to them. You on the other hand seem more interested in antagonising, so this will be my final response to you. I suggest you find a new hobby, winter babes.

The Movie Club threads are created by the people who contribute to them. I'm merely a facilitator for whatever film is chosen. Simple stuff.



...So is that another way of saying "I wrote a check my ass couldn't cash?" If any question of your opinion is rocking the boat then write a book and become a best seller what are you waiting for? It was a simple question mate, how, in any reality, is Nolan an arthouse guy?

Listen winter, lets just keep it classy, ok?

1) You're the one opening with slanderous remarks

2) The question remains unanswered

I have no interest in discussing Fincher if that's what you think I need to do to be part of this thread.

All films are art, even the ****** ones. This industry's gotta come up with a better way of discerning between intentions.

This is why the question asked in the post above yours is redundant. Some films are more artistic than others, but to suggest that Nolan's films (including his big budget ones) do not have any artistic merits is flippin' dumb, imo.

Well, I'm sorry I gave you more credit than that, but I guess I actually have to explain that I didn't say he had no artistic merits whatsoever. I asked how, at all, he is making arthouse, as in the genre, films disguised as blockbusters, as in the genre.

'Blockbusters' aren't really a genre. Generally speaking, the term blockbuster refers to any successful or expensive production. Star Trek, Robin Hood, and the Sex and the City films are blockbusters. They are not necessarily the same genre.

i must be honest
i really do hate films made by Nolan
Memento,Prestige,Dark Knight,Inception,i watched them all,before even knowing they are from same director and rated them all with 1 or 2 out of 10
i wish he stop making movies