Spin-off thread about feminism

I think I agree with you in that I don't take the vote seriously, but I think some people did. Like how I didn't take Pizzagate seriously (and a lot of people that passed Pizzagate stuff on didn't take it seriously) and then a dude shows up at the pizza parlor firing an assault rife to find out the place doesn't even have a basement let alone a basement full of children. Then places that pandered the obviously fabricated story (like infowars) delete all of their past provocation.

Basically, it matters less and less that something starts in jest. (1) There are people that will take it seriously even if it is clearly just for provocation and (2) people see the signal that you can harass under the guise of joking/trolling and imitate it.

I have no doubt that a lot of the rape/death threats to female celebrities are from people who aren't actually planning to commit the act, but it's still destructive to their well-being.

Honestly if this was the only thing Milo has done, I seriously couldn't care less. But when I see it, I'm just reminded that he pushes this rhetoric as his profession and that in total this sort of thing has caused real harm.

Not trying to convince you on anything here, have no reason to think you agree or disagree even, just kinda talking out loud.

Yeah, we're on the same page. I think people who just post that and think "wow, I can't believe they actually believe that!" are misunderstanding things, but that's the extent of what I'm saying: I think it's totally reasonable to point to the same thing and say "even if they don't actually believe it, it's dangerous to say it."

I don't think that and never said it. I think it's absolutely right and already been achieved and I don't think we are going to go backwards. If you watch the video I posted this is all covered, we reached equality and then we overshot the mark.

So people refuse to listen to reason and facts, with the amount of work Milo has put in and I seen it, it is understandable that he is now an agitator, extremism breeds extremism and third wave feminism breeds our lord and saviour Milo Yiannopoulous.

do you think equality is reached ww or just in America?

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In that case, it does seem like the kind of thing that cuts both ways and neither one of us can speak authoritatively as to what "some" or "most" or "all" of these people genuinely think about the proposed hypothetical. If I'm assuming the worst, does that mean that you're assuming the best?

Besides, calm and reasonable debate is proving an issue because it's getting harder and harder to tell where a genuine discussion ends and a stubborn quasi-trolling diatribe begins - by the time you realise it's the latter, it's too late. You either keep going and your opponent successfully wastes your time or you walk away and they consider that a win. I'd like to think that's a personal misunderstanding on my part, but based on some of the more protracted discussions I've gotten into on here over the past year it's easy to think that that's just the state of the discourse these days.

Wouldn't that just beg the question as to what kind of extreme circumstances bred third-wave feminism in the first place? It's kind of a chicken-and-egg situation there. If you're willing to understand why Milo became an "agitator", can you not extend the same understanding to his opponents (who are themselves responding to problems posed by modern society at large)?

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people ALWAYS point to the extremists when it comes to this topic. what they've coined "feminazis" (hate that term). but I'd like to know what everyone considers "extreme feminism." because it's hard to talk about issues without actually talking about issues. what are they doing that's so extreme? can anyone give examples in their own words, without linking me to some mra propaganda?

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Well, if the stated goal is equality (and what that means is arguable), then whatever extends beyond that and into preferential treatment would be progressively more extreme. The crazy reductionist fringe is an example but I'd bet there are actually very few of these in comparison to how much airplay they get.

In Europe.and America.

This is kind of twisted logic. Extreme circumstances bred feminism, the suffragettes etc

I am a female therefore I am a feminist.. bred third wave feminism

Why would I extend understanding to people who cant stop lying, they are responding to falsehoods they created.

I understand they should be mocked and belittled and shunned,, they have too much of an emotional investment in their own myth and will never stop.

Now you're talking about Trump.

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Holy damn.....why? Why be so pissed about feminism?? If you were decrying nazis, isis, pedos, or anything else that truly infected and kills a society from within, then ok. Feminism? This is what gets you pissed? Why?

What fuels your disdain for Feminism?

Do you think women are equal to men, yes or no?

If you answered Yes, then do you think it realistic a sect of women will empower what got them to this point? Im not saying feminists are flawless.........just why the ire?

Excellent post, Ash. I had thought about this too....I mean what do people, especially men think of when they hear the word feminism?...The way some men react so strongly to that word, I can only conclude that they are envisioning a meaning to feminism, that's very extreme. I mean equating feminism to Nazism is stupid, inaccurate and knee jerk reaction.

I've never met a woman who claimed to be a feminist and who hated men and wanted unfair advantages over men. The vast majority of women just want to be treated equally in the work force and in their daily lives. Why is that so hard for men to understand?

right, so I guess my next question is, where do women get preferential treatment? serious question, not being sarcastic. honestly trying to understand the other POV

Well, to be clear, we're not sitting on opposite ends of the spectrum here. You're actually wondering aloud if they would rather their loved ones die a horrible death than be feminists, IE: whether they're awful, irredeemable people. I'm not at the other extreme, suggesting that saying this stuff is okay, even as a joke or a provocation. I think it's a horrible, misguided way to express distaste for an ideology. I'm just convinced it isn't literal.

You're right, that is the state of discourse. But don't you see the implication of that? Of the two postures we're discussing right now, which one is the kind of thing that makes people eschew reasoned debate? Which one makes them abandon polite norms and thoughtfulness in favor of trolling? Obviously, it's not the one that still treats them like semi-reasonable people who are simply frustrated. It's the one that's writing them off. If someone's treating you like a lost cause, what reason do you have to engage in "calm and reasonable debate"? You're giving them nothing to lose, reputation-wise.

its actually sorta impressive what they have done to the word feminism. as soon as it comes into play people cover their ears and refuse to listen.oh a feminist
yet most wont probably realistically say anything negative about it - it just has a negative feeling,a sour taste,attached to it.
so again im going to say that most people are opposed to it dont even understand it.which is pretty clear in this thread.
manhater and feminist are the same thing.the problem with feminism really is that it has to cover too much ground,many feminists have different points of view on subjects. sort of like vegetarians where you have multiple sub catagories/names because one term cant cover all of the differences.

well then i hope you do some reading on women issues. like unequel pay,unequal job opportunities,human trafficking,sexual assaults etc etc

Sorry, I was speaking in terms of a philosophical discussion vs a state of reality.

I believe the answer to your question is presently nowhere.

Except for bikini modeling jobs, perhaps.

I hate Nazis and isis more than feminists but I don't think there were any in HARRY POTTER!

We have already covered the equality thing, I don't need to repeat myself.

I have read plenty on the "pay gap"

Please learn some truth



Stefan also has a similar video debunking the "rape culture"

Guys this is why I hate feminists but I'm not going to post here again

he debunked rape culture. Great,wonderful,so glad to hear it doesnt exist.

Your world must be nice since you dont have to deal it that is